D L X
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Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:13 am

Carrie Prejean, Miss California answering a question from Perez Hilton about gay marriage in the finals for the Miss America pageant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LPv9L6sy5c

And Perez Hilton's response: http://perezhilton.com/tv/index.php?ptvid=0bad59ed42807


I have to say, this actually kind of pisses me off. Miss California was denied Miss America it appears entirely because she believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman. You know what? A lot of people believe that. Probably the majority of Americans still believe that. And the vast majority of people who describe themselves as Christian believe that.

So that's why I can say I'm angered that Perez Hilton, an openly gay man, knowing that Carrie Prejean attends San Diego Christian College (meaning she's likely very religious), would ask her this divisive question, when he probably already knew the answer.

I'm generally for gay rights, but i think Perez Hilton has shot his cause in the foot by further dividing the groups. And besides, it's a freakin' beauty contest!! Pick the prettiest girl! Don't go political. This was not the time or place for a gay rights debate.

Someone please tell me where I'm wrong.  Smile
 
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bwest
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:28 am

Why does it make you angry that she lost? It just means that the majority of the voters in that contest apparently didn't agree with her views.

The girl has her opinion, she's entitled to one, but if that turns off people to vote for her, she has to accept that.
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D L X
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:32 am



Quoting Bwest (Reply 1):
Why does it make you angry that she lost?

Because the outspoken gay rights judge asked that question of the evangelical girl. He didn't ask anyone else, and I don't think that topic belongs in a beauty contest.

And I don't see how it helps the gay rights cause to have bigotry towards evangelicals. Two wrongs don't make a right, ya know?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:41 am

Quoting Bwest (Reply 1):

The girl has her opinion, she's entitled to one, but if that turns off people to vote for her, she has to accept that.

The judge in question decided to HATE her, because of her personal beliefs. She was asked a question, and she answered it very diplomatically, I think.

Did you bother to see the judge's response? He demands tolerance, but is absolutely intolerant of others.

I think he should be thrown off the panel, all his votes eliminated and the results recounted, if possible.

[Edited 2009-04-21 04:43:20]
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dxing
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:46 pm

His video blog on the issue and Miss California pretty much says it all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_QhM3TK2UE&feature=related

There may have been some boos but when she answers he questions I heard a lot more applause and cheering than boos in the video segment leading up to the following interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klT0aSRTuDQ

I've never really heard Mr. Hilton before but after these two videos I have to wonder why he ws even chosen as a judge.
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yooyoo
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:50 pm

So Perez thinks she's a dumb bitch....just because she doesn't have the same view/belief?. So much for being able to speak your mind.
I may not agree with Miss CA answer but i commend her for speaking her mind and not caving in to what "she was supposed to say".


Edit: changed stupid to dumb and wanted to show that i don't think she's a dumb bitch but that is what Perez called her.  smile 

[Edited 2009-04-21 06:20:31]
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runway23
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:17 pm



Quoting YooYoo (Reply 5):
She's stupid bitch....just because she doesn't have the same view/belief?. So much for being able to speak your mind.
I may not agree with Miss CA answer but i commend her for speaking her mind and not caving in to what "she was supposed to say".

I think she answered correctly. It's just that Perez is such a douche that he doesn't tolerate that not everyone support's the gays. The current law is on the girl's side in most states and IMHO even bringing up this topic at a pageant is just wrong. Perez's response is even worse is the guy should be hanged.
 
yooyoo
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:24 pm



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 6):

My earlier version of my post looked like i was calling Miss CA a dumb bitch when all i wanted to do was just quote Perez.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:34 pm

while I am saddened by this young womans ignorance and lack of compassion for others I do believe that she has the right to express her views without being punished for it .
 
EMBQA
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:54 pm

Although I really can't stand this leach, he is spot on as to what he says in the video. Listen at the 1:10 mark to the 1:26 mark. It is for the states to decide on their own....As for the rest of the video its just boasting and blabber....
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mt99
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:03 pm



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Someone please tell me where I'm wrong. Smile



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):

The judge in question decided to HATE her, because of her personal beliefs. She was asked a question, and she answered it very diplomatically, I think.



Quoting YooYoo (Reply 5):
So Perez thinks she's a dumb bitch....just because she doesn't have the same view/belief?.

I disagree. She can believe whatever she want. The fact is that she did not express herself with the eloquence and dignity that has always characterized the like of Miss America is what lost her such coveted price

"Prejean: “I think it’s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what, in my country and my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman.

“No offense to anyone out there, but that’s how I was raised and that’s how I think it should be between a man and a woman.”

I disagree. She can believe whatever she want. The fact is that she did not express herself with the eloquence and dignity that has always characterized the like of Miss America is what lost her such coveted price

"opposite marriage" what the hell does that mean?

"I think that i believe" sound very convincing.

That being said.. Perez is an idiot but, since here are straight stupid people everywhere. Why can there be one stupid gay one?
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D L X
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:10 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 10):
"opposite marriage" what the hell does that mean?

It means opposite-sex marriage. Hetero marriage.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 9):
It is for the states to decide on their own....

Actually, that's not legally true, I don't think. But that's neither here nor there.

The real issue is that this woman has a religious conviction that I kind of feel is being punished.

This question wasn't asked in a vacuum -- it was asked by the gay judge to the evangelical contestant, like he was setting out to discredit her. She was probably pretty taken aback.
 
mbmbos
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:11 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 10):
The fact is that she did not express herself with the eloquence and dignity that has always characterized the like of Miss America is what lost her such coveted price...

I heard her response and what impressed me about it was her shallow and disorganized delivery. She can believe in whatever she chooses to believe in - I have no problem with that. But she is in a popularity contest, after all, where the ability to shine while be asked a tricky question is something the contestants are judged on.

The other contestants were quizzed on politically charged questions as well.

If she lost the crown because of her political beliefs, it would be a shame. But I'm not convinced this is the case. Furthermore this is a beauty pageant. It's amazing how much outrage it has generated.
 
D L X
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:16 pm



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 12):
If she lost the crown because of her political beliefs, it would be a shame.

Willie Geist on Morning Joe was a judge, and he said that Perez's scores for her were much lower than the other judges.

And it's more her religious beliefs than her political beliefs. That's what I find disturbing.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 12):
It's amazing how much outrage it has generated.

Ehh, it's something to talk about.  Smile
 
mt99
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:17 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 11):

It means opposite-sex marriage. Hetero marriage.

See if you have to explain it - she did not convey her point eloquently enough.. therefore.. Therefore.. the stage door is that way sister!

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):

This question wasn't asked in a vacuum -- it was asked by the gay judge to the evangelical contestant, like he was setting out to discredit her. She was probably pretty taken aback.

Which further proves that she is not prepared to think on her pumps. She could have stuck to her beliefs and answered smartly.
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D L X
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:47 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 14):
See if you have to explain it - she did not convey her point eloquently enough..

Oh come on. Setting this example aside, that statement is illogical on its face. If I have to explain it -- to you -- it could just as easily be your fault that you didn't understand it. I mean, *I* understood it, why didn't you?  Smile (See?)

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 14):
Which further proves that she is not prepared to think on her pumps.

Do you really think that's why Perez Hilton gave her low marks?

Not being eloquent does not make you a stupid b----. No, Perez's problem with Ms. Cali was personal.
 
mt99
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:56 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):

Oh come on. Setting this example aside, that statement is illogical on its face. If I have to explain it -- to you -- it could just as easily be your fault that you didn't understand it. I mean, *I* understood it, why didn't you? Smile (See?)

I did understand it, what i was trying to say - is that it is not proper English.

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):

Do you really think that's why Perez Hilton gave her low marks?

Not being eloquent does not make you a stupid b----. No, Perez's problem with Ms. Cali was personal.

No, i agree he is not a role model, and he did over react. Straight people overact all the time; and they not given as much grief.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:04 pm



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
So that's why I can say I'm angered that Perez Hilton, an openly gay man, knowing that Carrie Prejean attends San Diego Christian College (meaning she's likely very religious), would ask her this divisive question, when he probably already knew the answer.

Perez Hilton is a giant piece of sh!t that should just explode never to be heard from again. He has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and is an embarassment to humans, never mind gays. Coincidentally, so is the Miss America pageant.
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Klaus
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:28 pm

Bigotry is becoming less popular as time goes on.

It's simply progress in my book.  cool 
 
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n229nw
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:40 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
Perez Hilton is a giant piece of sh!t that should just explode never to be heard from again. He has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and is an embarassment to humans, never mind gays. Coincidentally, so is the Miss America pageant.

Perfectly put.

Part of what is silly about this thing is that he asked her that question, but the other finalist did NOT have to answer it. There is a good chance her answer would have been the same, or worse, in which case the judgment is unfair. In any case, beauty contests such as this are a largely a farce--the judgments are always quite arbitrary and they have practically no positive influence on anything or anyone.

And, like, U.S. Americans are unable to do so because the Iraq and the South Africa and we should all have maps, and, like the Iraq!

[Edited 2009-04-21 08:46:54]
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yowza
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:40 pm

Hold up, you mean people actually watch Miss America without muting the TV? Wow.

As for the footage, talk about a disingenuous answer. Also I'm not sure she fully got the question...


YOWza
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 13):
And it's more her religious beliefs than her political beliefs. That's what I find disturbing.

I disagree. If the issue was purely her religious beliefs, she could have responded that she disagreed with gay marriage on religious grounds, but that it should nevertheless be legal because of equal protection and separation of church and state. As soon as you make the jump from "gay marriage is wrong" to "gay marriage should remain illegal," you make it a political issue.
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Zentraedi
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Let's look at what she said:

Quoting Carrie Prejean, Miss California (Beauty Contestant):
I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage and,

Going from that, it seems as if she didn't even get the question. Great that Americans can choose one or the other? Since when is the issue about be able to choose which type of marriage? Also, living in a land that you choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage? Doesn't she live in California where they banned same-sex marriage? Then, how is choice on the matter "great" if your position is not to permit gay marriage at all?

Quoting Carrie Prejean, Miss California (Beauty Contestant):
you know what, in my country and my family I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anyone out there but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be between a man and a woman.

This part is fine, but she completely fumbled that first half.

[Edited 2009-04-21 10:40:44]
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:04 pm



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 24):
This part is fine, but she completely fumbled that first half.

Except that it also has little to do with the question, which was about legalization of gay marriage, not about her personal opinion of gay marriage.
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AGM100
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:14 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 4):
I've never really heard Mr. Hilton before but after these two videos I have to wonder why he ws even chosen as a judge

Nothing happens by accident ... seems like a good set up to me. Perfectly plotted to bring up the discussion again. That is what is wanted ... they want to ostracize anyone who does not agree with them. She should have said that she Joins President Obama in his support of traditional marriage ... now that would have been a great answer.
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mt99
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:20 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
he should have said that she Joins President Obama in his support of traditional marriage ... now that would have been a great answer.

It would have actually. It would have proved she was smart.

AGM, how do you look in a bikini? time for a career change?
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santosdumont
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:21 pm



Quoting N229nw (Reply 21):
In any case, beauty contests such as this are a largely a farce--the judgments are always quite arbitrary and they have practically no positive influence on anything or anyone.

Off topic, but anybody remember the hubbub over that fine cougar Vannessa Williams in 1984? The Miss America pageant committee went apeshit after some (gasp) nude photos of her surfaced in Penthouse magazine. As a result, she was unceremoniously stripped of her crown. Her career never took off after that...  sarcastic 
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mbmbos
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:31 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
...they want to ostracize anyone who does not agree with them.

Who are "they", AGM100? Who is it exactly? Do you have evidence of a homosexual conspiracy to overthrow beauty pageants? Or is there some sort of thought police out there ready to control everything you say and think?
 
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2707200X
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:38 pm

She may well be a darling of the right just like Joe the Plumber as she portrays herself as a victim of the left.  duck   flamed 
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B6JFKH81
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:44 pm

My major problem with this entire thing is that this contest should not be a platform for political agenda. We expect certain "political" things to be brought up from the contestants that want to have world peace and a home for every puppy, but hot button topics like this don't belong in a contest like Miss America. For crying out loud, I would think that gay people are what still make that stupid contest work...gay hair stylists, make-up artists, dress designers, not to mention that the audience watching has to have a large gay population. Bringing this up, especially to the contestant whose state went through the entire Prop 8 saga was just not right.  no 

I am not bashing Miss California. She has her opinion and her upbringing and this had to be a VERY difficult question to handle. Do I agree with what she said? No. As a gay man who has been with my "significant other" (I hate that term) for 5 years now I would love to tie the knot but know it just probably isn't written in the stars. But a question like this at this event was in poor taste and Perez should have known that. Like any good gay boy, I accept her response and move on even if I don't agree with it. But at the same time, I don't have to agree with it, and if I were to be a member of the voting committee it WOULD have swayed my vote against her as I cannot have someone be "Miss America" who is supposed to uphold the values of liberty and equality but doesn't think everyone in her own country should be treated equally.

Just my  twocents 

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AGM100
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:48 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 27):
AGM, how do you look in a bikini? time for a career change?

Damn HOT ! Sorta like a A Micky Rourqe , Brett Favre thing Big grin . If she just wanted to win she just could have said yes she agrees with it . She could have written it out in crayon and misspelled every word ... and you guys would be praising her.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 29):
Or is there some sort of thought police out there ready to control everything you say and think?

No ,they do after you say it. Its easier ,
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mt99
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:58 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
She could have written it out in crayon and misspelled every word ... and you guys would be praising her.

No. It probably have been a complete non-issue really. or can you see the Breaking News on CNN and BBC News: "Miss America approves of Gay Marriage"... Stop the Presses!!
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NIKV69
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:59 pm



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
You know what? A lot of people believe that.

So do the majority of Californians.

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
So that's why I can say I'm angered that Perez Hilton, an openly gay man, knowing that Carrie Prejean attends San Diego Christian College (meaning she's likely very religious), would ask her this divisive question, when he probably already knew the answer.

Absolutely, this was totally orchestrated and Perez Hilton has lost all credibility. He makes me sick, he used thuggery to push his belief on someone and sabatoged a girls dream to be Miss America for it. Just another example of the far left trying to exploit the notion that if you disagree with them there is something wrong with you. Not only is this complete BS but it's un American. I applaud Miss California for having the courage to not sell out to some pompous, elitist left winger pushing his belief of gay marriage and standing her ground at the cost of the crown. She certainly has more courage than Perez Hilton.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Did you bother to see the judge's response? He demands tolerance, but is absolutely intolerant of others.

Yep a perfect liberal.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Bigotry is becoming less popular as time goes on.

Too bad it's not bigotry.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
It's simply progress in my book.

Oh yea I can see how sabatoging someone to push your belief on them certainly progess.  sarcastic 
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mt99
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:02 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Absolutely, this was totally orchestrated and Perez Hilton has lost all credibility.

Be that as it may.. she could have answered the same question much much better not having to compromise any of her beliefs
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santosdumont
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:24 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Absolutely, this was totally orchestrated and Perez Hilton has lost all credibility. He makes me sick, he used thuggery to push his belief on someone and sabatoged a girls dream to be Miss America for it.

While I think that Perez should have avoided foisting his political agenda on pageant participants and viewers, it's important to bear in mind that the guy is just a blogger. You have to take his "credibility" with a grain of salt. This is the same guy who's convinced that Fidel Castro is dead.

That said, you gotta keep things in perspective. Beauty queens basically serve as props. They're paid to look nice and smile. I suspect that during this woman's response, a large part of the straight males in the audience were (wishfully) thinking "just shut up and keep sucking." Coming in second isn't a death sentence for this young lady.

It's interesting that the Right is spewing all this simulated righteous anger while remaining silent on the inherently sexist (to say nothing of excruciatingly superficial) underpinnings of the pageant itself.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
I applaud Miss California for having the courage to not sell out to some pompous, elitist left winger pushing his belief of gay marriage and standing her ground at the cost of the crown.

It's a beauty contest, for God's sake. You sound like the kid in "Ugly Betty".
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
Klaus
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:36 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Too bad it's not bigotry.

Oh, sure. Discrimination is so progressive...!  rotfl 

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Oh yea I can see how sabatoging someone to push your belief on them certainly progess.

You go into a popularity contest, you state your bigoted opinions, you are unpopular, you lose.

Where's the difficulty in understanding that concept?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:13 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 35):
Be that as it may.. she could have answered the same question much much better not having to compromise any of her beliefs

How? By lying and saying she was in favor of it?

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 36):
the guy is just a blogger

Unfortunately in our twisted society these people are actually something now.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 36):
It's a beauty contest, for God's sake. You sound like the kid in "Ugly Betty".

So? You have any idea what it means to these girls? Just because you think it's not a big deal doesn't make it so. Try to think outside your world for a second here.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 37):
You go into a popularity contest, you state your bigoted opinions, you are unpopular, you lose.

Where's the difficulty in understanding that concept?

None except it's not bigotry and she was honest in her opinion. A concept lost on the far left and people responsible for this propaganda stunt.
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mt99
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:24 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
ow? By lying and saying she was in favor of it?

No no need to lie.

If i would look half as hot as AGM in a bikini, and i were asked that question id probably go with something along the lines of:

"I respect the desire of all human beings to have someone to love, and i am a lucky girl to live in a country in which there is a process for all sides of this important argument to be heard"

How about that?
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santosdumont
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:29 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
Quoting Mt99 (Reply 35):
Be that as it may.. she could have answered the same question much much better not having to compromise any of her beliefs

How? By lying and saying she was in favor of it?

No, but by saying that it's an intensely personal and private issue, something like that. To deflect the obviously loaded question by P. Hilton.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 36):
It's a beauty contest, for God's sake. You sound like the kid in "Ugly Betty".

So? You have any idea what it means to these girls?

Unfortunately, given the muck-encrusted cesspool world of pageants and stage parents that the JonBenet Ramsey case exposed, I know full well what it means to those girls. I hope they have skills to fall back on.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
A concept lost on the far left and people responsible for this propaganda stunt.

Perez Hilton has about as much to do with the far left as Homer Simpson has to do with O.J. Simpson. Let's be clear, far left is Khmer Rouge and Sendero Luminoso territory.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:33 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
How? By lying and saying she was in favor of it?

Or by saying that she was personally opposed to gay marriage, but that her religious views shouldn't dictate government policy.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
Unfortunately in our twisted society these people are actually something now.

How is this any different from the importance given to editorialists at major newspapers? Sure, there are some bloggers that aren't important (and I'll grant that Perez is one of them), but others are socially significant participants in New Media.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):
None except it's not bigotry and she was honest in her opinion. A concept lost on the far left and people responsible for this propaganda stunt.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
A bigot is a person who is intolerant of or takes offence to the opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset.

A person who refuses to accord a gay relationship the same significance and respect as a straight relationship is showing intolerance of or offence towards the lifestyle of gay people. Hence, they are a bigot. And the fact that she was honest in her opinion is irrelevant. A racist, for instance, might be honest in expressing their racist views, and we would still be entirely correct to condemn them.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:44 pm



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 36):
It's a beauty contest, for God's sake

Then why ask the question in the first place ... ?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 37):
Where's the difficulty in understanding that concept?

Yep , she said she didn't care if she lost because of it. so whats the problem?. And her view is not that radical ... a majority of Americans agree with her not to mention our President.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:45 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 39):
"I respect the desire of all human beings to have someone to love, and i am a lucky girl to live in a country in which there is a process for all sides of this important argument to be heard"

Would not have worked, Hilton was looking for one answer and anything but that was going to cook her which it did.

Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 40):
Unfortunately, given the muck-encrusted cesspool world of pageants and stage parents that the JonBenet Ramsey case exposed, I know full well what it means to those girls. I hope they have skills to fall back on.

We are not talking about the world of kiddie pageants where Mothers live vicariously through their daughters. I agree they are a cesspool but have no revelance in this discussion.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41):
Or by saying that she was personally opposed to gay marriage, but that her religious views shouldn't dictate government policy.

Still wouldn't have helped, Hilton was on a mission to make sure anyone opposed to his point of view did not win and he accomplished it.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41):
From Wikipedia:

Quote:
A bigot is a person who is intolerant of or takes offence to the opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset.

Well then by definition it is Hilton who is the bigot because he took offense to an opinion different to his own and took it a step further by preventing a girl from winning Miss America. Once again Miss California is not a bigot simply because she believes that marriage is between a man and a woman.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:47 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 42):
Yep , she said she didn't care if she lost because of it. so whats the problem?. And her view is not that radical ... a majority of Americans agree with her not to mention our President.

Bigotry doesn't get any better by being a majority position. If that's even really the case.
 
Zentraedi
Posts: 609
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:30 pm

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:48 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 38):

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 35):
Be that as it may.. she could have answered the same question much much better not having to compromise any of her beliefs

How? By lying and saying she was in favor of it?

Oh come on. How are you gonna just ignore that jibberish that came out as her response?

Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 24):

Quoting Carrie Prejean, Miss California (Beauty Contestant):
I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage and,

Going from that, it seems as if she didn't even get the question. Great that Americans can choose one or the other? Since when is the issue about be able to choose which type of marriage? Also, living in a land that you choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage? Doesn't she live in California where they banned same-sex marriage? Then, how is choice on the matter "great" if your position is not to permit gay marriage at all?

 
johnboy
Posts: 2557
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RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:57 pm

Oh don't feel too sorry for her.....i'm sure she'll make the news rounds, cry and pout about not winning Miss USA because "I stood up for my BELIEFS!!!!".......get some wind out of it for awhile, and catch a plum news reporting segment on the "700 Club" or Fox News.

Maybe she'll even become the next big Christian singer and dancer (those beauty contestants always seem to have such aspirations).

The thing i can't get my head around is where it's Biblical principle to strut around on stage in heels with your knockers hanging out.

How Would Jesus Vote on that one???
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:03 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 43):
Would not have worked, Hilton was looking for one answer and anything but that was going to cook her which it did.

This is your supposition.
Step into my office, baby
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:31 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41):

A person who refuses to accord a gay relationship the same significance and respect as a straight relationship is showing intolerance of or offence towards the lifestyle of gay people. Hence, they are a bigot. And the fact that she was honest in her opinion is irrelevant. A racist, for instance, might be honest in expressing their racist views, and we would still be entirely correct to condemn them.

Give me a break. Are you actually saying anyone who disagrees with gay marriage is a bigot? Using your argument the KKK could call all of us bigots, for disagreeing with them. Also, anyone criticizing Miss California for her beliefs could easy be called a "bigot" for not respecting her views. You clearly are not showing "tolerance" towards her own views. Does that make you a bigot?

I've found those preaching tolerance are usually the ones who are most intolerant of opposing views. Much like those saying you're unpatriotic if you didn't support Bush, or those who say you're racist if you oppose Obama.

It's a cheap cop out. People disagree and even criticize with my Hindu religion all the time and especially the arranged marriage system. They disagree with our "limited" freedoms (in terms of the generally strict culture) and love to lecture me on how I should mimic them.

That doesn't make them bigots or racists. They have a different belief system and that's fine. I am not imposing my values on them, and they don't impose their beliefs on me.

I'm "tolerant" of their views, and they are tolerant of mine. No need for insults or the bigot or race card to be tossed about in a pathetic attempt to silence the opposition.

Case closed, no need to make so much drama over it. Mr. Hilton crossed the line by scoring her lower and classlessly calling her a bitch and cunt later.

This will blow over, and Miss California will likely have a ton of money thrown her way via interviews and product endorsements. Most beauty queens tend to fade out pretty quickly after their reign anyway.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:44 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 43):
Well then by definition it is Hilton who is the bigot because he took offense to an opinion different to his own and took it a step further by preventing a girl from winning Miss America. Once again Miss California is not a bigot simply because she believes that marriage is between a man and a woman.

Very fair comment, particularly given Hilton's disgusting and irrefutably rude and offensive comments about Miss California afterwards.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Klaus
Posts: 20594
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:46 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 48):
Give me a break. Are you actually saying anyone who disagrees with gay marriage is a bigot?

In the absence of any plausible impact on the complainant justifying it, the desire to have others discriminated does make that person a bigot indeed.

If anyone wanted to force you to marry a person of the same gender, I could understand the outrage. But that is not what's happening. Quite the opposite, in fact.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Miss Calif. Loses Miss America Over Gay Marriage

Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:58 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 50):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 48):
Give me a break. Are you actually saying anyone who disagrees with gay marriage is a bigot?

In the absence of any plausible impact on the complainant justifying it, the desire to have others discriminated does make that person a bigot indeed.

Your interpretation, especially on the plausible impact. Her opposition cost her the title, so according to your definition she has every right to feel the way she does.

Polygamists can make the same exact argument and in fact are in Canada to challenge the marriage laws. Hindus who have to justify their "arranged" marriages as "love marriages" to Immigration officials could all make the same argument. Muslims who are barred from marrying their cousins also can make this argument. In all three cases these actions don't hurt the general population, but society has made a judgment that it is somehow wrong.

We as a society impose restrictions and determine what is right and wrong. If you're attempting to change those rules you're obviously going to get debate on it. Most Americans do in fact support Civil Unions, that is, full legal status for gay couples. It's the definition of marriage that seems to stir the argument.

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