shamrock321
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Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Tue May 12, 2009 10:18 pm

Im sure like myself there are many Ferrari F1 fans using these boards, and I for one am shocked at what may happen to the greatest F1 team ever at the end of this year!

So whats your opinions, I think F1 without Ferrari will die.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Tue May 12, 2009 10:49 pm



Quoting Shamrock321 (Thread starter):
I think F1 without Ferrari will die.

It is about time for F1 to die. Maybe this way the deathly grip FIA and Bernie Ecclestone have on it will cease to exist and a new, better competition can appear in its place.
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aerobalance
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Tue May 12, 2009 11:20 pm

Political chess... Your move FIA...
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ltbewr
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Wed May 13, 2009 12:47 am

The end of tobacco advertising in F-1 and in many of the race host countries is probably the biggest reason to put in some team spending caps. However, forcing all cars to use a common engine, not allowing innovation by each maker would be wrong. Perhaps all the manufactuers need to get together and oust the F-1 brass and put in someone far more honorable and not a egotictical twit.
 
rsg85
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Wed May 13, 2009 8:50 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
However, forcing all cars to use a common engine, not allowing innovation by each maker would be wrong. Perhaps all the manufactuers need to get together and oust the F-1 brass and put in someone far more honorable and not a egotictical twit.

Agreed A1 is the sport for those who want to see identical cars racing.

I think with thier unwilliness to agree to budget caps in F1 shows that there is no shortage of sponsors money still flowing in. Thier just in an off year, its somebody elses turn this year, mclaren isnt doing so well either.
If they stick in F1 i can see then getting back to the top
If not, i can see F1 heading downhill fast and loosing many spectators and then sponsors to follow. F1 needs team red
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Wed May 13, 2009 9:45 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 2):
Political chess... Your move FIA...

truer words have never been spoken. However, the way ferrari did it, within a serious professional statement from the board where they also talked about the good financial position of ferrari, in my opinion shows this is a little more than an empty threat by ferrari. I really do think they mean business. This isn't Luca running his mouth off to some f1 tabloid but a proper business press release from a company.


I am sure glad i will likely be going to monza this year. It would be pretty fantastic if my first f1 race is the last time ferrari races f1 in italy. but it would be a shame for ferrari to leave f1.

I am of the opinion f1 is much more than just a race series. In fact, i look at f1 as more of an engineering competition than a race series. Innovation, and whether it trickles down to road cars or doesnt, is what f1 is all about. Capping teams at an arbitrary 40m is against the reality of f1. Two tier is not f1.
 
SAAB900
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Wed May 13, 2009 3:09 pm

Is it just me thats noticed this or does the fact that Ferrari are having one of their worst starts to a season ever not come into it?  Wink You dont see McLaren threatening to quit because their season hasn't started well! Ferrari are not bigger than F1, more importantly F1 can & if need be will manage without Ferrari!
Isn't it funny how Ferrari have fallen apart without Ross Brawn & Jean Todt. It must be really humiliating for them that Brawn GP are wipping the floor with them!

Dave(SAAB900)
 
808TWA
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Wed May 13, 2009 3:30 pm

I opened this thread based on the title.....I thought there was breaking news concerning Camilla Parker Bowles.

 Wow!
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BMI727
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Wed May 13, 2009 4:50 pm



Quoting Scrubbsywg (Reply 5):
I am of the opinion f1 is much more than just a race series. In fact, i look at f1 as more of an engineering competition than a race series. Innovation, and whether it trickles down to road cars or doesnt, is what f1 is all about. Capping teams at an arbitrary 40m is against the reality of f1. Two tier is not f1.

I agree. There is a place for spec racing, but I really don't believe that F1 (or NASCAR) is the place for it. I love the innovation and sheer technological muscle that goes into it.

Quoting SAAB900 (Reply 6):
Isn't it funny how Ferrari have fallen apart without Ross Brawn & Jean Todt.

They are learning that winning takes people and not just money.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Wed May 13, 2009 5:21 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
owever, forcing all cars to use a common engine, not allowing innovation by each maker would be wrong.

I agree. Unlike Formula Ford, NASCAR and others, F1 has always been about no-holds-barred, make your car faster, and it is the combination that is interesting. You've had years where a talented driver got results out of a terrible car, or a mediocre driver got results because of his great car, and every other possible combination.

The past 15-20 years or so have gotten away from that, I'd say ever since they banned turbos. There has been too much emphisis on safety and slowing the cars down. Sorry, but IMHO, if some driver is going to be paid multimillions, I don't think he should complain that it is a risky business. They should allow everything - active suspensions, wide tires, superchargers, whatever. The only restrictions should be the dimensions of the car (don't want 747-size wings) and that the car should run on street-legal fuel.

PS as for safety, I would suggest using the same radar units that now equip some modern Mercedes and Volvos, which detect a crash about to happen and tighten up tensioners etc. Put these things in the F1 cars. If a car is inches away from slamming a wall or another car, an ejection seat would shoot him out, and he can parachute down.

Don't know if that would be much safer than the crash itself, but think of the entertainment value! Big grin
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scrubbsywg
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Thu May 14, 2009 2:40 am



Quoting SAAB900 (Reply 6):
Is it just me thats noticed this or does the fact that Ferrari are having one of their worst starts to a season ever not come into it? Wink You dont see McLaren threatening to quit because their season hasn't started well! Ferrari are not bigger than F1, more importantly F1 can & if need be will manage without Ferrari!
Isn't it funny how Ferrari have fallen apart without Ross Brawn & Jean Todt. It must be really humiliating for them that Brawn GP are wipping the floor with them!

oh please.  Yeah sure

Ferrari has been in F1 continuously for 59 years. Your insinuation that they are threatening to quit because they have started off badly flies right in the face of the history of f1. You don't have to go back that far to find seasons where ferrari did badly. did they quit then? no.

I think every high budget team is somewhat 'humiliated' that brawn is wiping the the floor with them, not only ferrari. I am sure wondering if mclaren is wondering what the hell is wrong with their pig of a car. Just like you probably think mclaren will sort things out, ferrari will as well. They made a huge improvement last race and could have podiumed it, save for a problem with the fuel rig. mclaren still is nowhere.

While it is impossible to say with certainty how the f1 world will react without ferrari, i think you are in the minority that think ferrari isn't a major 'part' of f1. Ferrari has always been there. Unlike any other manufacturer in the series, ferrari has the prestige and pretentiousness that none of the others have. They did stick through the bad times and came with winning cars at some point. They had some of the greatest drivers drive for them. More than any other country in f1, SF pretty much has the whole of italy behind it. We are talking an original team leaving the series. That says a lot.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Thu May 14, 2009 2:47 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The past 15-20 years or so have gotten away from that, I'd say ever since they banned turbos. There has been too much emphisis on safety and slowing the cars down. Sorry, but IMHO, if some driver is going to be paid multimillions, I don't think he should complain that it is a risky business. They should allow everything - active suspensions, wide tires, superchargers, whatever. The only restrictions should be the dimensions of the car (don't want 747-size wings) and that the car should run on street-legal fuel.

The turbo era was definitely an interesting time, but their attempt at slowing cars down has not exactly gone completely to plan. Cars only a few years ago set record fast laps at the tracks, so the cars are no slower than previous 'generations' such as the turbo era. If we did let engineers have completely free reign i think it would be almost impossible for humans to drive the cars at the speeds they could likely achieve.

The fuel currently used in F1 is in fact very similar to regular street fuel, as opposed to series that run alcohol based fuels.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Thu May 14, 2009 8:05 am

From Ferrrari's statement regarding their possible withdrawal from F1.
How can they insist on this "The same rules for all teams," when they make this claim in the previous sentence "as have the binding contractual obligations between Ferrari and the FIA itself regarding the stability of the regulations."

What Ferrari really want is retention of the status quo, which is one set of rules for all other teams and another set for Ferrari.
How can anyone see the FIA and FOM with any degree of credibility when one team, a team that thinks itself indispensable has a sweetheart deal that sees them paid much more than the others and a far too cosy relationship with the regulator that gives them veto rights over things they don't like.

Luca and Piero may feel that they can take their toys and race elsewhere but what other sanctioning body or regulator will give them the perks they enjoy from F1? (A1GP perhaps)
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SAAB900
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Thu May 14, 2009 9:15 am



Quoting Scrubbsywg (Reply 10):
i think you are in the minority that think ferrari isn't a major 'part' of f1.

I never said that! What I said was "Ferrari are not bigger than F1, more importantly F1 can & if need be will manage without Ferrari!"
No team should think its bigger than F1!
The simple problem is the amount of money teams are having to put into motorsport to get to the top level & to be competitive. Good examples being Subaru pulling out of World Rally Championship, Honda pulling out of F1 & after this season Vauxhall pulling the works team out of the British Touring car Championship! How much longer do you think Toyota are going to keep pumping millions into F1 without getting that win that they badly want? F1 needs new teams & I hope that the 2 new teams mentioned to be joining in 2010 comes off. This season is great without McLaren & Ferrari at the front its giving the other teams a chance, which is the shot in the arm that F1 needs!

Dave(SAAB900)
 
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cpd
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RE: Is The Prancing Horse Dying?

Thu May 14, 2009 9:45 am

When teams like Toyota also threaten to quit - it's a big deal.

I think the next rule F1 will adopt is one of parity adjustments - that will complete the parody that it is. The sooner F1 is gone, the better.

It died at the same time these mickey-mouse little engines came along.  Sad

[Edited 2009-05-14 02:48:05]

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