dw747400
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Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 3:56 am

It seems like its getting popular to ask for car advice on here these days, and since I'm looking for a new ride I figured I'd get some opinions here.

I'm looking for a significant step up from my Accord, without breaking the bank. I'm not opposed to getting something a few years old if it has low mileage and is in good condition. I also don't want to pay through the roof for parts. I'm willing to take a hit on gas mileage compared to the Accord (29mpg for mine) but not a big one.

A couple of the options I'm looking at:

2009 Pontiac G8 (GT?)

Like the styling (though I want leather, which means I'd be stuck with a black interior)., fun to drive, impressive performance, especially for the GT (GXP is too thirsty for me).

On the downside, GM is going through some tough times, and with Pontiac going away in the near future support/resale value are on my mind. After all, there will not be many G8s on the road when the line shuts down, and importing parts from Australia for a small number of cars could keep prices high. And resale... I just don't know. In addition, gas mileage is on the low end of what I find acceptable, and some reviews I've read suggest the government tests are optimistic.


2005 to 2007 Audi A6
Stylish and upscale, I haven't had the chance to drive an A6 yet. Most reviews seem to give it high marks. It also has all wheel drive with impressive gas mileage, and apparently can take premium or regular gas without a problem (a big plus when prices go up).

The interior is luxurious, but seems to be a bit on the small side compared to the G8 and other bigger sedans. MSN Autos shows less interior space than my Accord, which could be an issue.

2005-2008 Cadillac STS
Combines the style of the sporty CTS with the size and luxury of the bigger DTS. Quite a nice car, but I have heard some people complain about reliability.

BMW 5 and 7 Series
Don't know a whole lot about them, but both have been mentioned. Premium only and high maintenance costs seem like two big negatives. The 5 would probably be in the same year range as the other used cars, I might need to go older to afford a 7, which could also add to maintenance costs.

I'm still open to other ideas, but I want to whittle down the list before too long. I want something with a more modern and sporty look, but not over the top. Thoughts? Experiences?
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BMI727
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 4:12 am

If fuel economy is a large consideration, you should look for a used E-Class diesel (mid 30s - mid 40s on Ebay) or a new BMW 335d ($40-45k). Also a new Lexus IS or Infiniti G37 would warrant consideration, particularly if you might want a convertible.
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dw747400
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 4:44 am

I'm probably capped at around $30k, hence why I was looking at several used vehicles. Ideally I'd like to spend a bit less than that, but I want to keep options open.

The E-class does sound interesting, though it may be tough to find a good one for the right price. Any idea about long-term costs? I've heard Mercedes is incredibly expensive to maintain, and not the most reliable in the first place.
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BMI727
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 4:51 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 2):
I've heard Mercedes is incredibly expensive to maintain, and not the most reliable in the first place.

I can't really say having never owned one. You'll probably be pretty safe if you get one from a dealer and it has a new warranty. That would go for any used car really, not just M-B. $30k should buy you a pretty nice used G35/37 or BMW 3 series. (if you get past the looks)

Cars in this range are a bit strange because the prices are often quite reasonable, but if you check a few boxes your $30k car just became $50k. So in your search you should remain aware that not all of the same model are created equal.
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Flighty
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 5:02 am

The one thing that stuck out is, if you are worried about gas prices, maybe you should spend less on a car and/or top up your IRA, or buy stocks or something (great time for that)...

The Audi A6 is very roomy and is a great car. Don't always believe the specs. The back seat is great. And, the purchase price should be reasonable. I would go with that. We had a 2000 2.7T model that was very solid.

Another smart buy might be a used Volvo S80. A luxurious car that goes under the radar so to speak.

http://www.volvocars.com/us/models/s80/Pages/default.aspx
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 5:05 am

How about a loaded and good looking Buick Lacrosse for under $30K USD??

Big version: Width: 450 Height: 350 File size: 29kb
2010 Buick Lacrosse Sedan
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EddieDude
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 5:17 am

May I suggest a 2008 Mercedes Benz C-Class?
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CheetahC
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:52 am

Parts for German luxury cars can be expensive, recently paid around R12 000 (roughly $1 500) for an alternator on a 4 year old C-class.
 
dw747400
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 8:58 am



Quoting CheetahC (Reply 7):
R12 000 (roughly $1 500) for an alternator on a 4 year old C-class.

That's the kind of information I need to see, though my math shows R12000 is around 260 USD?
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Superfly
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 9:56 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):

Considering most of America is in bed sleeping at the moment, all you'll see is post by people in Europe plugging their favorite brands.

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2009 Pontiac G8 (GT?)

Like the styling (though I want leather, which means I'd be stuck with a black interior)., fun to drive, impressive performance, especially for the GT (GXP is too thirsty for me).

On the downside, GM is going through some tough times, and with Pontiac going away in the near future support/resale value are on my mind. After all, there will not be many G8s on the road when the line shuts down, and importing parts from Australia for a small number of cars could keep prices high. And resale... I just don't know. In addition, gas mileage is on the low end of what I find acceptable, and some reviews I've read suggest the government tests are optimistic.

Anything against black leather?
If you are concerned about reliablity and parts, don't even think about looking at a German car. The repairs will certainly break the bank.





Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2005-2008 Cadillac STS
Combines the style of the sporty CTS with the size and luxury of the bigger DTS. Quite a nice car, but I have heard some people complain about reliability.

Hmmm...the report cards say they are pretty reliable.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...s-trucks/Cadillac_DTS/Reliability/

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
I'm still open to other ideas, but I want to whittle down the list before too long. I want something with a more modern and sporty look, but not over the top. Thoughts? Experiences?



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 5):
How about a loaded and good looking Buick Lacrosse for under $30K USD??

 checkmark 
The Lacrosse as well as the Lucerne uses the trusted and very reliable 3.8 V6 and or optional 4.6 Northstar system which has been around and proven reliability.

Others you might want to consider is the Chrysler 300C and Mercury Grand Marquis.
The 300C is certainly sporty but the Grand Marquis frame & powertrain has been around for a very long time now and proven to be very reliable and the parts are a dime a dozen.
If you are willing to go back to the 2003-2004 model years, you can pick up a sporty Marauder.  Cool







http://l.yimg.com/dv/izp/mercury_grand_marquis_gs_2008_dashboard_dashboard.jpg


http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/2008-chrysler-300c-1.jpg
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dw747400
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 10:29 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
The 300C is certainly sporty but the Grand Marquis frame & powertrain has been around for a very long time now and proven to be very reliable and the parts are a dime a dozen.

Though I appreciate the proven reliability of the Buicks, Grand Marquis, and others, I'm looking for something with a bit more aggressive styling. Hence I mentioned the STS as opposed to the DTS.

I'm not against big American sedans... I just want it to look the way I want!
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Superfly
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 10:34 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 10):
Though I appreciate the proven reliability of the Buicks, Grand Marquis, and others, I'm looking for something with a bit more aggressive styling. Hence I mentioned the STS as opposed to the DTS.

So how about the Chrysler 300C and Dodge Charger?
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Ken777
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 3:38 pm

The Caddy engines are actually pretty good. We bought a "program' DeVille with about 23K on the clock and got almost $1 off list per mile. Bought it after renting one to drive 11 hours to see the daughter & family. I did, however, get the extended warranty.

There is some serious money saved for letting someone else drive the first 20 or 30K, especially if you get an extended factory warranty. With a 100K drive train warranty fairly standard on US & Korean cars that extended warranty is cheaper. Just make sure you get the manufacturers extended warranty - a 3rd party company went out of business on a Pontiac my Dad bought.

Right now, though, I would wait to see how things go after GM files for Ch 11 - and I believe that they will file before Monday as they have to pay $1 Billion in interest payments on Monday. After the filing I would see the "New GM!" putting out some very good deals and the STS should have some great discounts. Keep an eye on Edmunds.com for rebates going to the customer or dealers.

There is also a "cash for clunkers" program that may well be available in a month or two. Last I read it was going to be a tax CREDIT of $3,500 to trade in a clunker on a new car that got at least 20 mpg and $4,500 on a car that got at least 30 mpg. That sort of woke me up.

Also look at repair costs. I had a '68 BMW 2002 and it was the most expensive car I ever owned in terms of repairs.
 
aerobalance
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 3:55 pm

Get the A6 - it's better than a Hippo


Tough to say, you listed a diverse range of vehicles and of those choices it would be the A6 for me. You did mention mid-range to upscale sedan.

Good luck!
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EddieDude
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 5:48 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
If you are concerned about reliablity and parts, don't even think about looking at a German car. The repairs will certainly break the bank.

The notion that German cars are less reliable than American cars is, to me, new and absolutely laughable. Anyway, I have had my 2008 Mercedes Benz C-280 Classic for 23 months or so and I have not experienced any problem so far. The first scheduled visit to the shop last year was not expensive as I thought it would be and took less than 2.5 hours. I recall my Dad sending his 1990 Buick Century Limited and my Mom sending her 1997 Chevrolet Malibu to service and the GM dealer taking days to change the oil and filter, rotate the tires and check the computer... and on top of it, it was not cheap.

If our friend David would rather get a mid-range to upscale American car, may I suggest waiting for the new Taurus SHO???
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drunkmuppet
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:22 pm

How about a Nissan Maxima? I just bought a 2009 S with Leather and a few options for about 25K with 6K miles on it. It's fast, big, and comfortable as anything I have ever driven. I was going to buy a 535i but as I am in sales and drive 25K miles a year. The maintainence on a BMW was outrageous and cost to insure was also high.
 
Superfly
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:38 pm



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
I have had my 2008 Mercedes Benz C-280 Classic for 23 months or so and I have not experienced any problem so far.

Now that's laughable!
Not even a French car would give problems within the first 23 months. That isn't really a good example. Not to mention, those German car parts are very expensive to replace when the thing starts falling apart.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
I recall my Dad sending his 1990 Buick Century Limited and my Mom sending her 1997 Chevrolet Malibu to service and the GM dealer taking days to change the oil and filter, rotate the tires and check the computer... and on top of it, it was not cheap.

Maybe things are different down in Mexico.
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Flighty
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:43 pm

To me the question is, would you rather have a 1993 Buick or Cadillac, or a 1993 Audi, BMW or Mercedes.

I would much rather have the German cars. Even if the new cars look competitive, 10 or 12 years on, the Europeans will be doing well. The Japanese a little less well (rusting, often). And the Americans, don't ask!
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:45 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2005 to 2007 Audi A6

Definitely give one a test drive, I'm sure you can find a well equipped one within your price range thats used. It is a superb car and a very good looking one at that. Personally I'd go with an S5, but you did say you want a sedan...

The A6 is a very handsome car and superbly built. And that's the current version. I can't wait for the new version to come out  drool  :

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/8998/images/AudiA6-2010-scoop.jpg

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2009 Pontiac G8 (GT?)

If you love recycled plastics and boat-like handling then sure.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
don't even think about looking at a German car.

Hogwash. I'm sorry Superfly but none of the cars you mentioned, not even the best ones, come close to having the same level of engineering, refinement, quality build and above all driving prowess when compared to even the most basic or entry level versions of the current German cars. All the German cars I and my family have owned have been true examples of reliability and have given us much less problems than American or Japanese cars.

I hate to sound anti-patriotic but America just can't build cars. There's a reason the american auto industry is in the crapper, and it's certainly not because they build good cars.
 
Superfly
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:49 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 17):
To me the question is, would you rather have a 1993 Buick or Cadillac, or a 1993 Audi, BMW or Mercedes.

1993?
Definatly the Fleetwood Brougham.  Cool
Many if those still running with very little maintenance. My Grandmother still drives her 1993 Buick Roadmaster till this day with very little maintenance and no rust. For a car 16 year old car in Chicago with no rust, I'd say GM has done a fine job.
I can only imagine how expensive repairs are for the Audi, BMW in Mercedes of the same year.
Dx747400 would need to get a 2nd. job just to keep his 'sophisticated' German car running.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:52 pm

Oh by the way, have you looked at the Passat CC? Another great car.



Unlikely you'll find too many used ones, but even new they are at a great price and have tons of features and its a lot of car for your money.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:56 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 10):
Though I appreciate the proven reliability of the Buicks, Grand Marquis, and others, I'm looking for something with a bit more aggressive styling.

While I will disagree with my friend on the Marquis (I wouldn't want to drive a police cruiser/taxi cab look alike even if it is Fly's all important RWD), the Buick Lacrosse (the Lucerne is a cut-rate version of the ancient Caddy DTS) is not my taste either. I've seen the new Lacrosse at the auto shows and it's gorgeous - it is based on the European Opel Insignia - and it's worthy of at least a look if not a test drive.

Big version: Width: 500 Height: 333 File size: 124kb
2010 Buick Lacrosse rear quarter view


Also, the new RWD V-8 powered Hyundai Genesis sedan is a huge bargain for the money - Lexus LS in size and demeanor for about $35K USD, although Hyundai dealer service and typically steep depreciation isn't all that great.
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PHLBOS
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 7:58 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
I'm not opposed to getting something a few years old if it has low mileage and is in good condition.

One thing to keep in mind is that there have been recently many occasions where new dealers car dealers will charge almost as much on a one-to-three-year-old model as for a similar new model. My older brother, who resides in Massachusetts, could not believe what some dealers were charging for used vehicles.

So it pays (no pun intended) to compare prices of new models against some used ones in the lot.
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Charles79
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 8:44 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
I want something with a more modern and sporty look, but not over the top. Thoughts? Experiences?

Let's see you got the Pontiac G8 GT, Cadillac STS, Audi A6, and BMW 5 and 7 Series. It's quite a diverse group there, nearly all targeting slightly different customers. From this list, though, I'd pick the A6. Audi interiors are second to none, they represent great value as a previously enjoyed vehicle, offers AWD if needed, and you can choose between 6 and 8 cylinder engines. The VW/Audi build quality is exquisite, the driving dynamics offer a great balance between comfort and sport, interior room is generous, and the maintenance is not as bad as folks here will have you believe (I'm onto my second VW and they are substantially cheaper to operate than the Ford I just replaced).

Right now I'd stay clear from the GM metal but if you must then stick with the Cadillac as the Pontiac is already on its death bed. Make sure you shop for one already well depreciated cause their resale values won't improve with GM filing Ch. 11. As for the BMWs, the 7 is abviously more technically complex and thus more prone for little annoying things going wrong.

Ultimately it will come down to test driving them. I thought I liked the new Cadillac CTS until I drove one. It felt really small inside for such a large car, it drove too much like a boat, and the cabin felt like it belonged in a top-spec Kia. Same for the Chrysler 300, a sad disappointment as I expected more from the car (it's ok as long as you never take corners). I did enjoy driving a 2006 Pontiac GTO (the G8 with 2 fewer doors) so I can imagine the G8 should be a driver as well but, again, with Pontiac dying and GM going bankrupt, I wouldn't want to risk it.

My $0.02, happy shopping!
 
aerobalance
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 8:48 pm

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 18):
America just can't build cars

America can build cars, it's just the management of the U.S. auto-makers believe in catering to a certain demographic of cars that are built as appliances, giving not the best in driving refinement but in utilitarian needs for a lower price than the imports. If the engineers were allowed to design a car within monetary reason and pick sub-systems from their suppliers that were more reliable they could produce vehicles that people want. It's up to management and the stockholders to allow that to happen.

I own two Japanese vehicles as daily drivers and a German car as a toy, years of watching the US auto industry has made me just shake my head in disgust.

[Edited 2009-05-28 13:51:51]
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Superfly
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 8:53 pm



Quoting Charles79 (Reply 23):
Right now I'd stay clear from the GM metal but if you must then stick with the Cadillac as the Pontiac is already on its death bed.

That has nothing to do with their products already available. GM will continue to support Pontiac products years down the road as everything in the Pontiac line up is shared with other GM models including Chevrolet, Saturn, Buick and Cadillac.
Current Oldsmobile owners have no problems getting parts and service for their cars as they were shared with other GM divisions.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 21):
I've seen the new Lacrosse at the auto shows and it's gorgeous - it is based on the European Opel

It's a great car and all but I don't like that fastback style roofline. I prefer the formal notchback of the Grand Marquis and 300C.
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EddieDude
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 10:37 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
That has nothing to do with their products already available. GM will continue to support Pontiac products years down the road as everything in the Pontiac line up is shared with other GM models including Chevrolet, Saturn, Buick and Cadillac.

Sure, but the resale value?

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 18):
I'm sorry Superfly but none of the cars you mentioned, not even the best ones, come close to having the same level of engineering, refinement, quality build and above all driving prowess when compared to even the most basic or entry level versions of the current German cars. All the German cars I and my family have owned have been true examples of reliability and have given us much less problems than American or Japanese cars.

I absolutely concur. I don't see myself buying an American car ever, unless Ford brought European models such as the Mondeo or Kuga this side of the Atlantic.
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Ken777
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 10:51 pm



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 18):
I'm sorry Superfly but none of the cars you mentioned, not even the best ones, come close to having the same level of engineering, refinement, quality build and above all driving prowess when compared to even the most basic or entry level versions of the current German cars.

The challenge with extensive engineering is that you have to both pay for it and maintain it. Total costs do matter for a lot of people - especially at a time when funds can be directed to far more profitable areas, like houses and (carefully selected) shares. As much as I enjoyed driving my BMW 2002 I could not justify the maintenance costs when compared to other cars. Ot was like pouring money down the drain.
 
aerobalance
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 11:13 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 27):
The challenge with extensive engineering is that you have to both pay for it and maintain it. Total costs do matter for a lot of people - especially at a time when funds can be directed to far more profitable areas, like houses and (carefully selected) shares. As much as I enjoyed driving my BMW 2002 I could not justify the maintenance costs when compared to other cars. Ot was like pouring money down the drain.

Interesting how you value engineering, as an engineer myself I value the end result of engineering a product as having enough refinement built in so the product doesn't have to be heavily maintained - yet still have a high duty-cyle life to sustain day in and day out use.

Think of the vehicles made now that are produced with that in mind and you see that they mostly come from one country. In my opinion it's not Germany or the U.S.

I'm sorry to hear about your BMW experience from 1968, it seems to have scared you for life. I tried to not let my 1976 Capri (Ford product) taint my 1987 Mustang GT purchase, it worked.
My 2008 BMW 335cic has 3400 miles in 10 months of service life, it will never be used for a daily driver and I believe any turbo or supercharged machine should not be a daily driver - parts do wear out and are expensive to replace when miles are piled on.
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swissy
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Thu May 28, 2009 11:39 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
It seems like its getting popular to ask for car advice on here these days, and since I'm looking for a new ride I figured I'd get some opinions here.

It worked for me  Smile, have now a new MB GLK.... had a 02 Audi Allroad before.

I prefer to buy if used from a certified dealer.... why? usually have the whole history of the car and the chances are great to have already extended warranty, which takes care of some of the unknown if you buy a higher end car.....and yes they cost more compare to the ...... once but hey I keep the risk as low as possible because if something goes wrong you better have a big valet....

The parts on my Audi were not ridicules expensive it is the shop labor..... but then I usually had one visit a year anyhow..... and it cost me on average 250-300$ CAD. versus our old north American cars we had which had to go in every 5000k........ and we never left the dealer ship under 100.00CAD..... and they fell apart fast....

I would stay away from the big upscale cars just because it can cost you a lot more to maintain, newer A6, MB E & new C class, BMW 5er are fine cars if you are in for a European car....

Ford really impresses me lately and no complaints with the Asian cars at all.....

Cheerios,
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 12:23 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
2005 to 2007 Audi A6

Good choice.

Quoting Dw747400 (Thread starter):
BMW 5 and 7 Series

Better choice!

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 5):
good looking Buick Lacrosse for under $30K USD??

That car is horrific looking...like a Chinese knockoff of itself.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 6):
May I suggest a 2008 Mercedes Benz C-Class?

Actually my first thought...one of my law clerks got a loaded 2008 demo for 31K...had 13K miles. Nice car--hell of lot better than her Camry.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
So how about the Chrysler 300C and Dodge Charger?

Ghetto Cruiser...and Ghetto Cruiser Lite. Skip it.
 
Ken777
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 12:51 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 28):
Interesting how you value engineering, as an engineer myself I value the end result of engineering a product as having enough refinement built in so the product doesn't have to be heavily maintained - yet still have a high duty-cyle life to sustain day in and day out use.

I value engineering because of what it has achieved, just like I value medicine. I also value the KISS principle when it comes to design and engineering. One of the best cars I ever owned was a '70 Corolla. The excellence in that car was its simplicity in engineering.

I also believe one goal of engineering should be to minimize the costs. especially when it comes to maintenance. All you have to do is look at today's economy and it is easy to understand the importance of saving money to a lot of people.

As far as the 2002 goes, what burned me on the company wasn't that they were dumb when it came to designing the cooling system. Yugo could have had the same problem. The issue for me was that they were pitiful when it came to taking care of the provblem. They sent a larger plastic radiator fan. Didn't solve the problem. Let's also add in the fact that this was the first year that BMW was importing to the US - with 10,000 1600/2002s. It wouldn't have cost them that much to replace the radiator with one that could handle the job. It's called taking care of the customer - something that even the owner of a small one man company like me could understand.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 1:21 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 28):
Interesting how you value engineering, as an engineer myself I value the end result of engineering a product as having enough refinement built in so the product doesn't have to be heavily maintained - yet still have a high duty-cyle life to sustain day in and day out use.

 checkmark 

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 26):
Sure, but the resale value?

Some cars, resale value remained high once it went out of production. The 1994-1996 Chevrolet Impala SS and 2003-2004 Mercury Marauder maintained high resale values after going out of production.
I expect the Pontiac G8 to keep it's resale value as it's a potent V8 rear-drive performance sedan.

Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 30):
Ghetto Cruiser...and Ghetto Cruiser Lite. Skip it.

Care to give any technical reasons and not some silly, fickle mind prejudice you may have?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
The excellence in that car was its simplicity in engineering.

Can't get any more simple than a Grand Marquis.
Though that may not be the car Dw747400 is looking for but it is certainly a simple, reliable and affordable car to maintain.
Bring back the Concorde
 
TylerDurden
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:55 pm

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 2:23 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
Care to give any technical reasons and not some silly, fickle mind prejudice you may have?

An observation is not a prejudice. Drive through any crappy neighborhood in Socal or Texas and they are littered with 300C's with 22" wheels and custom grills---not to mention some with the RR paint jobs. Chargers are rapidly getting there too.

In fact, the only stock 300's I see regularly are either rental cars or taxi cabs.
I think that pretty much says it all...
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 2:32 am



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 33):
An observation is not a prejudice. Drive through any crappy neighborhood in Socal or Texas and they are littered with 300C's with 22" wheels and custom grills---not to mention some with the RR paint jobs. Chargers are rapidly getting there too.

Well I guess you couldn't come up with any technical flaws with the vehicle, so I guess knock those you see driving them.  Yeah sure
Totally besides the point.
Dw747400 will decide on what he wants regardless of what the hood-rats do.
Bring back the Concorde
 
BMI727
Posts: 11094
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 4:24 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
Well I guess you couldn't come up with any technical flaws with the vehicle, so I guess knock those you see driving them.

What both of you say have merit. After all, isn't the image of a car and how it portrays a driver at least a little bit of a factor worth considering? All the time I see people comment "oh that guy must be rich" when they see a BMW, even if it is a $30k 1 series, while a $35k 300C or a $45k CTS barely gets a second look.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Superfly
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 5:16 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):
What both of you say have merit. After all, isn't the image of a car and how it portrays a driver at least a little bit of a factor worth considering?

Here in San Francisco, the Charger is NOT a ghetto car.
Then again, they've all been priced out of SFO.  Smile

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):
All the time I see people comment "oh that guy must be rich" when they see a BMW, even if it is a $30k 1 series, while a $35k 300C or a $45k CTS barely gets a second look.

From what I gather, Dw747400 doesn't care much about that.
Bring back the Concorde
 
dw747400
Posts: 1091
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 5:24 am

I'm making a table comparing the financial aspect of each car. Though the car itself matters the most, and I'm not pinching pennies, cost of ownership is still a factor.

The Mercedes E-Class TDI is an interesting suggestion. The fuel economy is very impressive for a car in that class. Anyone have experience with Mercedes upkeep? The estimates on Edmunds are frightening, but third party extended warranty options seem reasonable. I doubt they are willing to loose money, so I'm thinking the Edmunds numbers might be off...
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
BMI727
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 5:28 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
Here in San Francisco, the Charger is NOT a ghetto car.

Not here either. To be ghetto here it means you drive an early 90s Escort or Geo Metro. And there are a few Festivas mixed in. The family oriented ghetto dweller here owns a Chrysler minivan that is at least 15 years old and has at least two mismatched panels. Duct tape over tail lamps or windows is a nice touch too.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
From what I gather, Dw747400 doesn't care much about that.

Probably not. And a lot of other people don't either. But it is not correct to say that cars do not have images or stereotypes attached.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 7:04 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 37):
The Mercedes E-Class TDI is an interesting suggestion. The fuel economy is very impressive for a car in that class. Anyone have experience with Mercedes upkeep? The estimates on Edmunds are frightening, but third party extended warranty options seem reasonable. I doubt they are willing to loose money, so I'm thinking the Edmunds numbers might be off...

Have a car with the 3-pointed Mercedes star emblem is very seductive in many parts of the United States.
Rather than repeating myself, here is an old thread I started about my aunts brand new Mercedes E320 withing 4 months of ownership (granted her's was not diesel, but doubt that was the problem in this case).

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...non_aviation/read.main/271410/1/#1

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 38):
To be ghetto here it means you drive an early 90s Escort or Geo Metro. And there are a few Festivas mixed in. The family oriented ghetto dweller here owns a Chrysler minivan that is at least 15 years old and has at least two mismatched panels. Duct tape over tail lamps or windows is a nice touch too.

Out here, sadly a lot of nice Buick Park Avenues get in to the wrong hands. Doesn't mean it's not a good car.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 38):
But it is not correct to say that cars do not have images or stereotypes attached.

True.
However, keeping your car stock will separate you from the ghettotrash that tarnishes the image of an otherwise fantastic vehicle.
Bring back the Concorde
 
BMI727
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 7:18 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
However, keeping your car stock will separate you from the ghettotrash that tarnishes the image of an otherwise fantastic vehicle.

You got that right. Many people around here have fitted their cars with stereo systems that have more value than the car itself, and probably more power too.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
Out here, sadly a lot of nice Buick Park Avenues get in to the wrong hands. Doesn't mean it's not a good car.

True. But Escorts, Metros, and Festivas were never good to start with so they have no such problems.  Smile
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
JJJ
Posts: 2236
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 7:50 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 37):
The Mercedes E-Class TDI is an interesting suggestion

That should be CDI.

TDI is a VW trademark.
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 2:07 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
Well I guess you couldn't come up with any technical flaws with the vehicle, so I guess knock those you see driving them

Nice attempt at deflection.
Smart makes a technically competent car as well.
Doesn't mean I'd ever want to own one.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 3:08 pm

It's a little bit more than what you're looking for, but I second the Hyundai Genesis. You might be able to find on gently used for around 30K. I've heard (but admittedly, not physically proved) that Hyundai really turned over a new leaf with this car. It's big, it's fast (0-60 in 5.7, I think), and it's cheap.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
JJJ
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 3:34 pm



Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 43):
It's big, it's fast (0-60 in 5.7, I think), and it's cheap.

It's a whole class bigger as well.

And big and fast means crappy economy as well 17/25. Anyway the press seems to rave at the Tau V8 so if I ever were in the market for a V8 barge I would certainly give it a look.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 4:43 pm



Quoting JJJ (Reply 44):

It's a whole class bigger as well.

Compared to what? Certainly not the BMW 7 series that he mentioned that he was looking at, although I think the Genesis is actually a little bit bigger, it's definitely in the same class as the 7-series.

What you say about economy is true, however...

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
TylerDurden
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:55 pm

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 6:16 pm



Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 45):
it's definitely in the same class as the 7-series.

Size-wise, yes.
But they are hardly interchangeable.
Too very different markets. I can't see anyone in the market for 7-Series/S-Class/A8 even stopping by the Hyundai dealership.
I know I wouldn't.
 
Longhornmaniac
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 9:24 pm



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 46):
Size-wise, yes.

That's what I meant.

I'm sure you're right about the other thing, too.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 9:32 pm



Quoting TylerDurden (Reply 42):
Nice attempt at deflection.

No attempt of deflection on my part.
I simply asked you to site technical short comings of a certain vehicle and all you've done is stereotype owners of that kind of vehicle in your area.
Talk about "deflection".

Quoting JJJ (Reply 44):
17/25. Anyway the press seems to rave at the Tau V8

Which is roughly the same efficiency of the Ford 4.6 liter V8 yet the press slams Ford more making a gas-guzzler.
See the bias folks?
Bring back the Concorde
 
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
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RE: Car Advice--Mid-Range To Upscale Sedan

Fri May 29, 2009 9:59 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
If you are willing to go back to the 2003-2004 model years, you can pick up a sporty Marauder. Cool

Souped up cop car  Silly At least you know it can handle abuse

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
Dodge Charger?

 thumbsup 
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