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DocLightning
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Job Advice

Thu May 28, 2009 11:45 pm

So, I have this fellowship training position and I hate it. I get paid crap and I get abused. I've been reprimanded for showing up ten minutes late...twice in four months. I've been reprimanded for things I didn't do. I've been reprimanded for having done things that were wholly appropriate. The conditions and expectations under which I work constantly change and there is no room for negotiation. Most recently, my boss has decreed that we will have to make up clinics that we miss while on vacation.

So I've made the difficult decision to bring my career in another direction, at least temporarily, for applying for jobs as a general pediatrician. The problem is that in the Bay Area, the job market is tight.

Currently, I have applications in at two places. One looks quite attractive to me, given its location and the fact that they specifically requested a pediatrician with my exact set of qualifications who can speak either Cantonese/Mandarin or Spanish. I speak Spanish. I took my application over there on Monday and dropped it in person at their HR department. They said I'd hear from them "within the next few days." It's Thursday evening and I haven't heard anything other than an acknowledgement that they got some supplemental materials (my CPR and PALS certificates).

At what point do I call over there and follow up?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Phoenix9
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RE: Job Advice

Thu May 28, 2009 11:52 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
At what point do I call over there and follow up?

I suggest wait a few more days....at least until next tuesday or wednesday. Have you thought about opening up your own private clinic?
Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Job Advice

Thu May 28, 2009 11:53 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):

At what point do I call over there and follow up?

I would call or better yet, driver over there and ask to schedule an interview. Also, should you drive over, be prepared for an interview.

KH
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Job Advice

Thu May 28, 2009 11:58 pm



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 1):

I suggest wait a few more days....at least until next tuesday or wednesday. Have you thought about opening up your own private clinic?

Yes. Long enough to realize how absurd that idea would be, which was about 0.00003 seconds. The capital investment alone would be absurd, the paperwork hassles with insurance carriers, liability and malpractice insurance, etc... Hell no.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
lincoln
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 12:02 am

Ok... I am like so not the best person to post here (witness other threads), but I'm going to anyway

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I took my application over there on Monday



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
They said I'd hear from them "within the next few days."

Monday as in national-freaking-holiday Monday? My guess is even if the place was open on Monday (I guess healthcare never sleeps) that the majority of the HR types were probably out BBQing.

Nothing sucks more than coming back to your desk the day after a holiday/vacation day and dealing with the stuff left over from Friday + all of the stuff from over the weekend. My guess is by today they're finally getting back into the swing of things, and would review your materials either today or tomorrow. Alternatively, your info could have been forwarded to the hiring manager (or however it works in healthcare) and God only knows how long they'll take to look it over.

There's a fine line between "seeming interested", "seeming desparate", and "seeming apathetic".

I personally would probably wait until Tuesday-- one business week before following up. Alternatively, I guess you could try a "Just wanted to make sure you had all of the information you need..." type call.

On the other hand if you don't follow up at some point, they could get the impression you just don't care.

How big is the orginization you applied to? That has a lot to do with turn around times, as well.

Not saying you fall into this category, but nothing drives me more batty than someone who drops info on me on one day and starts acting all ancy if I haven't turned it around in 20 minutes or less (that's one of the quicker ways to wind up at the bottom of a pile that currently has +/- 2 week FIFO time)
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Phoenix9
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 12:03 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
liability and malpractice insurance

I'm not sure about California, but here in Ontario, it is compulsary for MDs to have the insurance....does not matter if they are in private practice or working for a hospital...and I know that is one of the MAJOR expenses for MDs.

Yes, capital costs are there...but you can start with renting out an office...and hiring someone to do all the paperwork. I am sure as a specialist, you will more than make up for these expenses. Or else you can move to Canada...we are really short on doctors.
Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 12:19 am

Come here. Seriously. We need doctors and being a US-qualified pediatrician you can get a good job easily. I'm studying 1st yr med, and some of my seniors (4th yr) have already been offered positions in major hospitals. A lot of the overseas-trained doctors here are from Asia, but there are quite a few people from North America also.
אני תומך בישראל
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 12:22 am



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):

Monday as in national-freaking-holiday Monday? My guess is even if the place was open on Monday (I guess healthcare never sleeps) that the majority of the HR types were probably out BBQing.

Fair point. Tuesday. So it's only been about 48 hours. My bad.

Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 5):

I'm not sure about California, but here in Ontario, it is compulsary for MDs to have the insurance....does not matter if they are in private practice or working for a hospital...and I know that is one of the MAJOR expenses for MDs.

Not here. The hospital will usually take care of that.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 6):
Come here.



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 5):
Or else you can move to Canada.

Nope. Love SF too much.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
lowrider
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 12:30 am



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
The problem is that in the Bay Area, the job market is tight.

It is tight everywhere. A nearby medical center (the one that people mistake for the sandwich condiment) recently withdrew all the job offers it had issues since Jan of this year.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
At what point do I call over there and follow up?

I would say next Tues morning at the earliest. Figure 2 days to get caught up from the long weekend. 2 days of normal business where they might get to your app, look it over and get it to the person who has the power to make interviewing decision, and 1 more for this person to review your information and decide that they want to call you and speak to your further sometime next week. I would not let it go longer than next Fri. Good luck.
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TylerDurden
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 12:53 am



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
So I've made the difficult decision to bring my career in another direction

Why no consideration of going into private practice?
I learned quickly I only wanted to work for myself and focused my (considerable) energy into making it happen.
Experience is not that much as a factor as long as you are competent.
Just a thought.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 6:53 am



Quoting Tylerdurden (Reply 9):

Why no consideration of going into private practice?

that's what I'm doing. But in today's environment, hanging up your own shingle and opening your own office is prohibitive.

You have to deal with:
1) Labrynthine medical billing with multiple different insurance carriers (oh, if only we had single-payer national healthcare, it would save so much money on that alone)
2) Malpractice insurance, liability insurance
3) Building costs, rent, utilities
4) Hiring staff, maintaining their salaries and benefits
5) Taxes, finances, and other numbers to which I am allergic
6) Building a patient base
7) Being on call 24/7.

Aaargh! Hell no!
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 10:57 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
that's what I'm doing. But in today's environment, hanging up your own shingle and opening your own office is prohibitive.

You have to deal with:
1) Labrynthine medical billing with multiple different insurance carriers (oh, if only we had single-payer national healthcare, it would save so much money on that alone)
2) Malpractice insurance, liability insurance
3) Building costs, rent, utilities
4) Hiring staff, maintaining their salaries and benefits
5) Taxes, finances, and other numbers to which I am allergic
6) Building a patient base
7) Being on call 24/7.

Aaargh! Hell no!

Find another pediatrician(s) to split the costs with.
Leverage the gay card, plenty of gay parents in SF.
Start up your LLP. Get a lawyer to do your articles of organization, etc. and an accountant to do your finances. You could be: x, x, and x Pediatric Associates, LLP.
Not too hard just takes time and research.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 1:58 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
You have to deal with:
1) Labrynthine medical billing with multiple different insurance carriers (oh, if only we had single-payer national healthcare, it would save so much money on that alone)
2) Malpractice insurance, liability insurance
3) Building costs, rent, utilities
4) Hiring staff, maintaining their salaries and benefits
5) Taxes, finances, and other numbers to which I am allergic
6) Building a patient base
7) Being on call 24/7.

True. But it's still better than working for someone else.
And a hell of a lot more lucrative!

Good luck on your search.
 
Charles79
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
At what point do I call over there and follow up?

Everyone else says Tueday so I'll go with it. But now that you've opened up the can of worms you'll have to keep us posted as to whether you get the interview/job/etc or not.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Nope. Love SF too much.

Well you can always go overseas for a few years then come back to SF. That's what I'm trying to do...I like the DC area a LOT but I want to get an international experience as well, even if a brief one.
 
comorin
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 5:35 pm

I'd strongly suggest calling, you can never be too eager and it is flattering to an employer to know you really want to work there.

As for loving SF, how do you know you won't fall in love with South Africa? - You never know till you try it!

Good luck!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 6:48 pm



Quoting Comorin (Reply 14):

As for loving SF, how do you know you won't fall in love with South Africa? - You never know till you try it!

Admittedly, I've never been to South Africa. However, I have stood on all seven continents. I love London, I love Melbourne, I love Madrid, I love Brisbane, I love Chicago. I've lived in Michigan, San Francisco, and New York.

No matter where I go, when I leave SF, I am homesick. Life is only so long; I'm done trying to find the perfect city; I've found it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
comorin
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 8:35 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
No matter where I go, when I leave SF, I am homesick. Life is only so long; I'm done trying to find the perfect city; I've found it.

Good for you! Finding Home is so important to feeling settled and comfortable. Wish you much luck there and hope you find a congenial place to build a career.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 9:08 pm



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 11):

Find another pediatrician(s) to split the costs with.
Leverage the gay card, plenty of gay parents in SF.

Ok, everyone STOP.

You don't understand. That's like telling a pilot that if he's unhappy working at his airline, he should just start his own airline. It is WAY more complicated than you realize. It really is like starting a new airline. Not an option for me.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 9:30 pm



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 1):
I suggest wait a few more days....at least until next tuesday or wednesday. Have you thought about opening up your own private clinic?

In my experience, the squeeky wheel will get the grease. I'd call every couple of days.

Good luck.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 9:36 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):

In my experience, the squeeky wheel will get the grease. I'd call every couple of days.

I faxed over my new Pediatric Advanced Life Support credentials today. I'll call on Tuesday if I haven't heard.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
TylerDurden
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RE: Job Advice

Fri May 29, 2009 10:38 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
In my experience, the squeeky wheel will get the grease. I'd call every couple of days.

Year and half ago I had a very persistent candidate call/fax/write me every day for about three weeks about a position I had available. I did not hire him (his credentials in what I was looking for were not strong--and had no trial experience).

But...when I needed a litigation atty about six months later...his name popped into my mind without hesitation. I hired him the following week. He was a great find.

So persistence does pay off....even in ways you don't expect.
 
iairallie
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RE: Job Advice

Sat May 30, 2009 7:09 am



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 11):
Find another pediatrician(s) to split the costs with.
Leverage the gay card, plenty of gay parents in SF.
Start up your LLP. Get a lawyer to do your articles of organization, etc. and an accountant to do your finances. You could be: x, x, and x Pediatric Associates, LLP.
Not too hard just takes time and research.

I'm sure Doc is plenty capable. Some folks just prefer the hands on part they don't want to get bogged down in administrative detail.

I do have a friend who is a family therapist she kinda has a hybrid private practice. She and several other therapists pay a third party to handle all the annoying stuff. She gets a lot of the benefits of being your own boss without the hassle. It means less money but better QOL.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
I faxed over my new Pediatric Advanced Life Support credentials today. I'll call on Tuesday if I haven't heard.

Did they verify receipt of the ALS? It would be a good opportunity to call without looking like a desperate freak ask about the fax and then casually prod about when they might start contacting about interviews.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
ual777
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RE: Job Advice

Sat May 30, 2009 7:46 am



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
department. They said I'd hear from them "within the next few days." It's Thursday evening and I haven't heard anything other than an acknowledgement that they got some supplemental materials (my CPR and PALS certificates).

Call them soon!

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 8):

I would say next Tues morning at the earliest. Figure 2 days to get caught up from the long weekend. 2 days of normal business where they might get to your app, look it over and get it to the person who has the power to make interviewing decision, and 1 more for this person to review your information and decide that they want to call you and speak to your further sometime next week. I would not let it go longer than next Fri. Good luck.

I would NOT go with this approach!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):

In my experience, the squeeky wheel will get the grease. I'd call every couple of days.

Ditto. I have found that if you are politely aggressive, and show a want more than others do then you will get the job. I would call every other day. I did the same thing last november with an airline, and finally got them to call me back with verbal consent for an interview when I met their minimums. Unfortunately those minimums changed.  Sad
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