UAL747
Topic Author
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Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:42 pm

I think we will agree that these people represent the far right and far left of journalism. While Keith Olbermann plays more to my tastes, sometimes I can't stand watching him just as much as I can't stand watching the people on Fox News.

MSNBC at night has become the Fox for the left.

They are SO polarizing and seem to have so much influence over their audiences, well, FOX seems to have that in check more than MSNBC. But the political agendas are extremely evident to anyone who has any sense. What happened to just giving the news? I'm sorry, but Bill O'Reilly's "No Spin" tag line is just a flat lie.

Do people REALLY buy into this news? I mean, yes they are presenting the facts, but the stories on both sides are so cut and edit and cherry picked, that you never know what the true story is. CNN seems to be in the middle. But the fact that these news anchors are on prime time, their audience is vast, and at times they seem to promote hate of one side or another, and they have SO much influence over the GOP and Democratic Party by only giving one side of the news. What happened to "Fair and Balanced" to use a FOX term.

While FOX currently causes the most controversy, because they seem the most angry and obvious about their political agendas, the left news agencies are doing their job almost as well now.

I'm sort of worried how much power the media has in polarizing this nation. They seem to be ripping us apart, rather than just report the news.

Do you think this is an accurate statement, and what are your opinions on this?

This is a graph of polarized states in past elections:

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max550
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm

I can't watch any of these guys. It wouldn't be so bad if they weren't on "news" networks, that's the part that bothers me.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Do people REALLY buy into this news?

Yes

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I mean, yes they are presenting the facts, but the stories on both sides are so cut and edit and cherry picked, that you never know what the true story is.

They don't present the facts, they present the facts they want to present and then they might have someone on with the other facts so they have to either cut them off so they can't talk or have enough people on that you can't hear them.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
What happened to "Fair and Balanced" to use a FOX term.

They want more money, the further to the right they went the more money they made.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I'm sort of worried how much power the media has in polarizing this nation. They seem to be ripping us apart, rather than just report the news.

I can't say I blame them for it though. It's much easier and cheaper to pay one guy to give commentary on a story than it is to pay a team of reporters to do actual investigating into a story. The viewers have chosen what kind of coverage they want and they've made it clear that they don't want straight reporting.

The scary thing is that we could get to a point where the TV "news" channels are the main source of "news." Newspapers are dropping fast in circulation and they are about the only ones capable of reporting on the big stories that require real reporters anymore. The Internet can fill some of the void but again, most of what is reported is by people with an agenda.

Overall, I agree with you, it does worry me, but there's nothing we can do about it unless people decide they want to know the news instead of the "news".
 
tommy767
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:31 pm

all of the hosts mentioned are pretty obnoxious in general. IMHO olbermann is the worst and he should have stuck to sports. O'Reilly is almost as bad but the thing is his show is by far more entertaining because he is so relentless with his guests and his demeanor is hilarious (not that i agree with any of his views.) Olbermann is just smug and is mostly just a liberal opinion show.

Maddow, Geraldo, and Matthews are also pretty bad in their own ways as well.

That chart with the polarized states is very interesting. It's no surprised that we are the highest as of right now and the lowest during the 1980s.
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Charles79
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:43 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Do you think this is an accurate statement, and what are your opinions on this?

It's always been my impression that the news corporations behave like any other corporation in the sense that they wish to maximize profit. On the face of it there's nothing wrong with trying to make a buck; what ticks people off is that the newscasters and journalists were supposed to be impartial, balanced, and never promoting their own agendas. In a relentless pursuit for profits and market share several of the better known news organizations and personalities appear to have abandonded their values in favor of the ratings war.

That said, I don't think that the vast majority of the reporters are biased on their reporting or carrying some secret agenda. Most still try to keep their own beliefs deep down, whether it would be a political view, a dislike for a particular product or brand, or even a religious belief.

As for the three individuals that the OP mentioned (as several others on TV and newsradio) I think it's safe to say that they are more entertainers than journalists. In the same line as Jeremy Clarkson is not a car reporter but a show presenter at Top Gear (and thus highly vocal about his own opinions and prejudices) these folks represent not the true meaning of journalism but rather a form of entertainment show created around the current events. They are savvy businessmen and women who know what to say (most of the time) to get the highest ratings.

The fact that they still have such an enormous influence might say more about their audience than of themselves.
 
michlis
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:48 pm

In "1984 Orwell predicted "Big Brother" as a government entity that controls and manipulates what information the people receive. I put forth that Big Brother has indeed emerged but rather than the government, it has manifested itself in the form of the media.



[Edited 2009-06-03 10:48:53]

[edited for grammar]

[Edited 2009-06-03 10:51:31]
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
redflyer
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:48 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Do people REALLY buy into this news?

None of the three are "news casters" in the traditional sense. They provide commentary and analysis, which is different than actual news. I think that is why a lot of people get bent out of shape when they watch these guys - they assume they are watching "news" and become infuriated when the talking-heads' political stripes shine through. You need to watch them from the perspective that they are providing analysis on world events from their own political perspective.
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redflyer
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:21 pm



Quoting Michlis (Reply 4):
I put forth that Big Brother has indeed emerged but rather than the government, it has manifested itself in the form of the media.

I still fear the government far and away more than I would ever fear the media or corporate conglomerations.
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AGM100
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:46 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I think we will agree that these people represent the far right

Hannity yes ,, Orielly No .

To add ... if you watch the shows for the most part they always have a alternate view of some type when discussing issues. The problem I have with Olberman is that I do not see a real effort to present the other side. I would compare Oberman and Hannity in some sense .. they both are to the far side of the spectrum. But Hannity generally has a liberal on his panel as well . Olberman usually just has another guest who agrees with him .

Are you suggesting that we set up a State run press content review and approval board ? Is that the solution ? As far as polarization goes ... blaming it all on the press coverage and not the real issues is not correct. The alternative to that is a populace who just does not know what is going on . Is that what you are suggesting would be better ?
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sw733
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:58 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
CNN
seems to be in the middle

I have to disagree with you here. I used to think that too, back when I was more of a liberal. After a few years of going to a very liberal school, and being annoyed by them, I found myself being pushed more to the middle. Now that I am in the middle, I see CNN as absolutely left leaning...though not nearly as far as MSNBC.

That being said, I cannot stand watching Fox, MSNBC or CNN anymore. I read local news, or international news. That or just hold my nose to wade through all the BS.
 
D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:09 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I'm sort of worried how much power the media has in polarizing this nation. They seem to be ripping us apart, rather than just report the news.

Do you think this is an accurate statement, and what are your opinions on this?

ABSOLUTELY accurate. I used to be able to say that Fox News is destroying America, but now MSNBC can be equally polarizing. The idea that the person yet uneducated about the current topic of the day that tunes in to become educated can hear an extremist from one side yell at an extremist from another side and figure out what the actual story is is nuts. Most likely, people will say "this extremist is more believable (or fits my mores better) than the other extremist, so I'll declare this extremist correct." What does that do? That makes people adopt extremist views. And that's not analysis in any way at all.

I was watching Hardball yesterday and it was downright painful. Matthews, the so-called moderator, was so frustrated about his gust who simply refused to admit that her role was to obstruct the Sotomayor confirmation because she was spinning it to sound nice and pleasant. What's the result? Either you hate the guest because she was so overtly disingenuous, or you hate Matthews because he was railing on this lady who was so nice and pleasant.

Another problem is that these guys have to get two sides of a story, even if one side is very obviously correct and the other very obviously incorrect. Why do we give equal time to loonies with crazy ideas? It legitimizes crazy ideas. Nuts. And harmful.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 6):
I still fear the government far and away more than I would ever fear the media or corporate conglomerations.

Why? Corporate America has far more influence on you than the government does. For instance, the government doesn't know what you spent your money on. But VISA does!
 
max550
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:31 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 6):

I still fear the government far and away more than I would ever fear the media or corporate conglomerations.

If you fear the government you need to have a strong media that wants to get the truth, not just push an agenda. The TV "news" networks are more concerned with holding their viewers until the next commercial break than investigating stories.
 
UAL747
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:25 pm

I'm wondering if CSPAN is really the only way to formulate your own opinions. I don't believe they give any commentary, just show video of government proceedings....

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:33 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 11):
I'm wondering if CSPAN is really the only way to formulate your own opinions.

Probably, but reality just isn't as sexy as people screaming at each other. CSPAN ratings will never come close to the point where it would support advertisements. In other words, it can only exist as a public service.
 
redflyer
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:11 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
Why? Corporate America has far more influence on you than the government does.

Influence, perhaps. But not the sheer power of government. Corporate America may have a lot of influence on my life, but it will never have the ability to control my life in the manner or efficiency that a government could.

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
For instance, the government doesn't know what you spent your money on. But VISA does!

Ha! Go tell that to the NSA! I'm sure if the government wanted to monitor my Visa/MC spending habits it wouldn't take a lot of effort on their part to do so. And if they did, it would be for nefarious purposes. The worse part is, the government can monitor my spending habits AND my communication habits, travel habits, etc., A nice and convenient one-stop-shop-to-get-to-know-you, and then screw you. At least if Visa snooped on my spending habits, it would only be to either figure out how to get me to spend more of my money or to mitigate their exposure with regards to my ability to pay off my debt.

Quoting Max550 (Reply 10):
If you fear the government you need to have a strong media that wants to get the truth, not just push an agenda.

I have no argument with you there, my friend! I think the state of the current media is sad, to say the least. The problem is news doesn't sell news anymore, sensationalism does. And that is why our media is the trash pile that it is today.
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dxing
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:44 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
What happened to "Fair and Balanced" to use a FOX term.

On Fox that always represented the newscasts themselves which O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al. are not, they are commentators pure and simple. I don't believe Bret Butler, Shepard Smith, Jon Scott, Jane Skinner, Martha MacCallum or Trace Gallagher present the news in the way that O'Reilly or Hannity do nor are they billed as commentators.

I'm not familiar with the MSNBC anchors during the day but I would suspect they are pretty much the same. The problem is that many people ascribe "news" credentials to commentators. I would no sooner expect Hannity to be "fair and balanced" than I would Olbermann.

I miss the old headline news where the same newscast was recycled every half hour and updated as necessary.

Quoting Max550 (Reply 10):
The TV "news" networks are more concerned with holding their viewers until the next commercial break than investigating stories.

That is true, especially for the legacy networks shows since they only have a half hour every evening.
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D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:00 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
Go tell that to the NSA!

It is illegal for the NSA to spy on Americans in America.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
I'm sure if the government wanted to monitor my Visa/MC spending habits it wouldn't take a lot of effort on their part to do so.

It is illegal for the government to invade your privacy without a warrant or consent.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
At least if Visa snooped on my spending habits, it would only be to either figure out how to get me to spend more of my money or to mitigate their exposure with regards to my ability to pay off my debt.

You don't see how that's exacting power on you? They can also say "we don't want to be your creditor anymore, please pay up. OR... submit to these demands."

Quoting DXing (Reply 14):
I miss the old headline news where the same newscast was recycled every half hour and updated as necessary.

This statement is quoted for truth.

How sad is it that we have FOUR cable news networks, and yet if you want to know the news right now and its after 5pm or a weekend, you can't!
 
sw733
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:07 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
It is illegal for the NSA to spy on Americans in America.

It's illegal to do a lot of things...doesn't mean they are not done.
 
AGM100
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:28 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 11):
I'm wondering if CSPAN is really the only way to formulate your own opinions

It is one way .. I watch it. Like last time when I saw all the Dem's vote against a GOP amendment to have workers on our military projects / bases have to prove they were US citizens . Ya I formulated a opinion alright ...
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FreequentFlier
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:27 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
Why? Corporate America has far more influence on you than the government does. For instance, the government doesn't know what you spent your money on. But VISA does!

Is this statement a joke? If I don't like VISA knowing where I spend my money, I'll throw out my VISA card. Poof, problem solved.

On the other hand, the government can seize my property, tax me at a rate of its choosing or throw me in jail and deprive me of liberty. Poll after poll after poll after poll show most Americans are more concerned with Big Government than with Big Business. Any concentration of power people should be skeptical of, but particularly so in the case of the federal government.
 
redflyer
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:33 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
Go tell that to the NSA!

It is illegal for the NSA to spy on Americans in America.



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
I'm sure if the government wanted to monitor my Visa/MC spending habits it wouldn't take a lot of effort on their part to do so.

It is illegal for the government to invade your privacy without a warrant or consent.



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
At least if Visa snooped on my spending habits, it would only be to either figure out how to get me to spend more of my money or to mitigate their exposure with regards to my ability to pay off my debt.

You don't see how that's exacting power on you? They can also say "we don't want to be your creditor anymore, please pay up. OR... submit to these demands."

Good God, Man. No wonder you love the elite liberal media and love trashing the Right in these forums. You're all for big government! I'm saving the above posts and references for the next time we have a debate on a political topic. These comments are priceless! Thanks, Buddy!
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Zentraedi
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:11 am



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 5):
You need to watch them from the perspective that they are providing analysis on world events from their own political perspective.

Naive and just wrong. Their purpose is to be inflammatory, incite and pull in ratings. Even if the host knows better they'll still get all worked up over trivial issues.

They'll even throw out any nonsense if it'll make their viewer/listener base feel better. My favorite is the "You have right not to be called a name." tripe.
 
D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:21 am



Quoting SW733 (Reply 16):
It's illegal to do a lot of things...doesn't mean they are not done.

Feel free to provide some semblance of proof that this law is being violated.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 18):
If I don't like VISA knowing where I spend my money, I'll throw out my VISA card.

Be that as it may, you willingly GIVE extremely private information to people who have a lot of power to screw you with it, and to live in this country (unless you go the Kaczinsky route), you MUST give up these private bits of information to lots of different entities, some of which WILL screw you, and screw you much worse than our government ever has.

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 19):
Good God, Man. No wonder you love the elite liberal media

Wow! Let me guess, you're one of those anti-intellectual Palin voters?

Why don't we stop with the name calling. You clearly don't know me. Especially if you think I love the "elite liberal media."
 
sw733
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:47 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 21):
Feel free to provide some semblance of proof that this law is being violated.

I never said it did happen, I just said it isn't a 100% guarantee it does not. If you want to play that game, provide proof it does not happen, other than the governments word...
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:19 am

We would all be better off if all of these folks were canceled, I cannot stand them anymore, none of them. What function do they have, other than to polarize peoples views. It is theatre, not news.  Sad
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StarAC17
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:22 am



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):

Do people REALLY buy into this news? I mean, yes they are presenting the facts, but the stories on both sides are so cut and edit and cherry picked, that you never know what the true story is. CNN seems to be in the middle. But the fact that these news anchors are on prime time, their audience is vast, and at times they seem to promote hate of one side or another, and they have SO much influence over the GOP and Democratic Party by only giving one side of the news. What happened to "Fair and Balanced" to use a FOX term.

They do and what usually happens is that someone who buys into Olbermann usually becomes someone who will mock the right by being sarcastic an snide and someone who buys into Hannity will get very angry about right wing issues.

The right for the most part yells their point across very aggressively and the left tends to mock and use sarcasm to get their point across which I personally prefer because it can be funny to see some of the dumb stuff people on the right will say. However when someone on the left says something dumb a conservative will go on a tangent about how the "liberal media" is letting off the hook.

How it looks now MSNBC is on the left, FOX is on the right and CNN tries its best to be in the middle but its a matter of opinion on how successful they are, but they do not put angry conservatives on the air and MSNBC does have Pat Buchanan.

For the hosts you mentioned specifically both Hannity and Olbermann hardly never but people who disagree on their shows because of the legitimate fear of getting destroyed in a debate. O'Reilly does have liberals he brings on but if you say something that strikes a nerve you will get bullied around and he also attacks the far left far more than the far right mainly because he attacks them and the fact that most people associate the far right with extreme social conservatives which he probably is.

As for entertainment the right owns talk radio and the left dominates pretty much all of the comedy, mainly because conservates are easier to make fun of mainly because Obama gives them squat. They do have an arsenal of Biden and Pelosi jokes.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
While FOX currently causes the most controversy, because they seem the most angry and obvious about their political agendas, the left news agencies are doing their job almost as well now.

Right on, but the left doesn't get mad the mock the yelling.
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Yellowstone
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:32 am



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 24):
The right for the most part yells their point across very aggressively and the left tends to mock and use sarcasm to get their point across which I personally prefer because it can be funny to see some of the dumb stuff people on the right will say.

Ironically, that's one of the tactics listed in Alinsky's Rules for Radicals that the right wing likes to demonize. Quoting Alinsky:

Quote:
Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

This is part of why I consider Jon Stewart to be one of the most valuable media figures--humor is one of the best ways to attack the incompetence of politicians.
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us330
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:41 am

Lock'em up in a sealed, airtight room, throw away the key, and let them scream at each other to death.

Seriously--I simply cannot stand most of the news media today, which, as most have said, put their spin on things rather than just report the news. What's worse, though, is that this is a self-perpetuating problem. People, for some god awful reason, seem to like watching this verbal vomit and pundit catfights that passes as news, so journalists are now trying to outdo each other in a contest of how controversial one can be.

I simply do not understand why programs and "news" companies can ethically defend some of the crap that goes on--it's simply outlandish, outrageous, and against every principle of good, ethical journalism. Again, though, for some stupid reason, people like watching this stuff, so it continues to exist.

Russert's passing marked the end of the era--he was the last of the heavy-hitters (name brand journalists) who didn't care about self-promotion and were only concerned with, to pardon the quote, "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." He didn't care who you were, or what your background was--he'd grill you either way, and you never knew where his own prejudices lie--truly the hallmark of a great journalist.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I'm sort of worried how much power the media has in polarizing this nation. They seem to be ripping us apart, rather than just report the news.

I hate to be blunt, but, to some extent, the media has always had this power--albeit it's influence today is certainly magnified by how connected and easily accessible the "news" is. Way back in 1898 one of Hearst's newspapers purposely generated public outrage against Spain for the purpose of selling newspapers---I believe his infamous quote to one of his photographers was "You provide the pictures, I'll provide the war"--and his efforts culminated in the Spanish American War.

A fictionalized version can be seen in the critically despised (but I actually liked) James Bond movie "Tommorrow Never Dies"

It ticks me off just how blatant the level of bias in the various news outlets are, and what they pass off as unbiased information---did anybody watch ABC's "Earth 2100" program the other night? A clear case of alarmist fear-mongering masked as "legitimate news"
 
D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:08 am



Quoting SW733 (Reply 22):
I just said it isn't a 100% guarantee it does not.

Then you haven't really said anything at all because there are few things that have a 100% guarantee. You're the one playing games. You're the one saying "you're not right" without a base of an argument. All you have said is "you can't prove that I'm wrong 100% of the time." Well, I hope you can be satisfied with 99.999999% of the time.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:38 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 21):
Be that as it may, you willingly GIVE extremely private information to people who have a lot of power to screw you with it, and to live in this country (unless you go the Kaczinsky route), you MUST give up these private bits of information to lots of different entities, some of which WILL screw you, and screw you much worse than our government ever has.

You contradict yourself in the same paragraph. First you acknowledge that you "willingly" choose to do business with VISA and then you say you "MUST" give information to these companies and do business with them. Both of course cannot be correct. The answer is obvious to anyone paying attention: if you don't want VISA or Mastercard or American Express or whomever to have information on your spending habits, you can throw out your credit cards and use cash or checks.

On the other hand, I did not vote for this administration and i think it's completely incompetent and dangerous. I think it's wasted countless hundreds of billions of dollars on things I don't believe in. Nonetheless, my taxes are not voluntary. Should I "voluntarily" choose not to pay my taxes, the government will throw me in jail. So why should I be more concerned with a credit card company that can't force me to do anything instead of a massive federal government that is rapidly increasing in size and slowly but surely taking away my rights - among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I'm increasingly taxed to fund public sector unions groups I find completely useless and to support programs that make problems worse.

On the other hand, I didn't like the interest rate I was getting on my savings account, so the other day, I changed banks. No coercion, no worries. You seem awfully worried about these phantom companies that ARE OUT TO SCREW YOU.

I, like most Americans, am more worried about an intrusive federal government than a company that I can always choose not to do business with.
 
D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:14 am



Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 28):
You contradict yourself in the same paragraph.

There's nothing inconsistent about willfully doing something you must do. Most people willfully pay their taxes, for instance.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 28):
if you don't want VISA or Mastercard or American Express or whomever to have information on your spending habits, you can throw out your credit cards and use cash or checks.

And then you're swapping one financial institution with one set of rules that are imposed on you for another financial institution with a different set of rules imposed on you.

This is one of the big fallacies of conservative thinking: you will be beholden to someone, yet you feel that being beholden to large corporations is okay because you do so by choice. But in reality, while the big print may be substantially different from company to company, you will never be free of the fine print. It's like how I get a big kick out of people who say that universal health care will be bad because who wants a government bureaucrat deciding whether you can have a procedure done. . . But how exactly is a government bureaucrat different from a penny pinching insurance agent? You're going to be beholden to someone regardless.

This topic is running far afield of O'Reilly, Hannity, and Olbermann, so it will be my last comment on the subject in this thread. Feel free to start another thread to discuss this.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:00 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 9):

Why? Corporate America has far more influence on you than the government does. For instance, the government doesn't know what you spent your money on. But VISA does!

It scares the piss out of me in healthcare. Blue Cross knows my medical history. So does AETNA. Every last shred of it. I'd FAR rather trust the government than either of these two.

The same is true of news. What has happened is that O'Reailly, Olbermann, and Hannity should have gotten the can a while ago. BUT...they are so obnoxious that they pull ratings like crazy. Ratings=ad spots. Ad spots=money. Screw truth, balance, and integrity when you can earn money! Money money money money...

So how do we fix it?
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UAXDXer
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:39 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
So how do we fix it?

Quit watching.... I did a long time ago. What's even worse os watching the 10p local news. It's damn near as bad as watching Jerry Springer. Al least it is around here (Houston).
It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:16 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
I'm sure if the government wanted to monitor my Visa/MC spending habits it wouldn't take a lot of effort on their part to do so.

It is illegal for the government to invade your privacy without a warrant or consent.

Perhaps...but then again, who would actually prosecute the government?


Regarding the three network blowhards:

O'Reilly - entertaining, even though I don't always agree with his opinions.

Hannity - obnoxious. While I'm center-right, this guy's too hardcore and needs to settle down.

Olbermann - even MORE obnoxious. Keith, go back to ESPN, please. You were great on SportsCenter but your pompous, smartassed shows make me want to bitch-slap you.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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sw733
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:28 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 27):
Then you haven't really said anything at all because there are few things that have a 100% guarantee. You're the one playing games. You're the one saying "you're not right" without a base of an argument. All you have said is "you can't prove that I'm wrong 100% of the time." Well, I hope you can be satisfied with 99.999999% of the time.

When did I ever, in any of my replies, say "you're not right"? Please provide me with where I said that, because I do not remember, or see, where I did. I simply stated that just because something is illegal does not mean it does not happen. Murder is illegal but it happens...crack is illegal but it is dealt and smoked...bribery is illegal but it's common. My base of an argument is that illegal things still happen, which goes directly back to my original argument of, and I quote:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 16):
It's illegal to do a lot of things...doesn't mean they are not done.

Laws always have been, and always will be, broken.
 
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:41 pm



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
Perhaps...but then again, who would actually prosecute the government?

 Embarrassment !!

You'd be surprised! Lots of people sue the government every day. So much so that there is a special trial court nearly completely devoted to hearing suits where the government is the defendant, called the US Court of Federal Claims.

There are also Section 1983 claims (violation of rights) that you can bring in most courts.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 33):
When did I ever, in any of my replies, say "you're not right"?

If you were not saying that I was wrong, why did you write this then:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 16):
It's illegal to do a lot of things...doesn't mean they are not done.

???

Quoting SW733 (Reply 33):
Laws always have been, and always will be, broken.

Right, and when they are broken, the breakers are liable to the consequences. That's how you limit the breaking. We both know that.
 
redflyer
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:11 pm



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 20):
Naive and just wrong. Their purpose is to be inflammatory, incite and pull in ratings. Even if the host knows better they'll still get all worked up over trivial issues.

They'll even throw out any nonsense if it'll make their viewer/listener base feel better. My favorite is the "You have right not to be called a name." tripe.

Well, I don't think we're in disagreement here. I just didn't use the word 'inflammatory', but I don't disagree that it is a good description. But as I said, their purpose is NOT to report news but to provide commentary dressed with their political perspectives. Regardless, what they do is NOT news. And that is why a lot of people get bent out of shape. They turn on FNC or MSNBC expecting to hear the news and instead they get a dose of political commentary.

*******

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
It is illegal for the NSA to spy on Americans in America.



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
It is illegal for the government to invade your privacy without a warrant or consent.

This is quite interesting. You're claiming it's illegal for the government to do these things as if the government doesn't do it simply because it is 'illegal'. Yet you have many posts on this forum where you've railed against the Bush administration for all of the illegal things they did. (Just last week you and I had a discussion on the 'illegal' practice of waterboarding - an activity that was condoned by our government.) So according to you, one administration conducts illegal activities, yet I have nothing to fear of government? Our history is rife with our government doing things it wasn't supposed to do. Go do some reading up on U.S. history, my friend, Federal and State. Then come back and try to give me a more compelling reason why I should trust government more than Corporate America.

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
You don't see how that's exacting power on you? They can also say "we don't want to be your creditor anymore, please pay up. OR... submit to these demands."

I can tell Visa/MC to go F themselves. I can cancel my account and never use the cards again. No matter how much money I may owe Visa/MC, even if I refuse to pay them what I'm obligated to pay contractually, they will never be able to take my freedom away nor put me in jail or put me to death. But if the government tells me to do something, I'm powerless to stop them and will end up in jail, or worse.

Your arguments are, at best, naive, and, at worse, uneducated. And I'm not trying to insult you. Anyone who has read history in-depth will know the power of government transcends all other powers. That is why organizations such as the ACLU exist and they are forever vigilante against the excessive power and abuses of government.
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D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:41 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 35):
So according to you, one administration conducts illegal activities, yet I have nothing to fear of government?

That's not what I said. I never said you have nothing to fear from government. I said you have much more to fear from corporations, and yet you willingly give up information to them with which they can screw you.

Start a new thread. This is off topic.
 
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:56 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 36):
I said you have much more to fear from corporations, and yet you willingly give up information to them with which they can screw you.

And I disagreed and stated you have much, much more to fear from the government than you do for a corporate conglomeration. I can always tell that corporation to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I can't do that to the government. Any government.

Nice trying to do a spin on your own words.  Wink
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D L X
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:14 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 37):
Nice trying to do a spin on your own words.

If you don't know the difference between "nothing to fear" and "less to fear" don't bother starting a new thread.
 
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:31 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 38):
If you don't know the difference between "nothing to fear" and "less to fear" don't bother starting a new thread.

Ok, using your now revised words, I still disagree and will say we have more to fear from the government than from corporate America.

And from another rich quote in this thread that you provided...

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
Corporate America has far more influence on you than the government does.

Wrong. Again.
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ER757
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:32 pm



Quoting Us330 (Reply 26):
Russert's passing marked the end of the era--he was the last of the heavy-hitters (name brand journalists) who didn't care about self-promotion and were only concerned with, to pardon the quote, "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." He didn't care who you were, or what your background was--he'd grill you either way, and you never knew where his own prejudices lie--truly the hallmark of a great journalist.

Amen to that - couldn't agree more.

Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 31):
Quit watching.... I did a long time ago. What's even worse os watching the 10p local news. It's damn near as bad as watching Jerry Springer. Al least it is around here (Houston).

As good a piece of advice as there is. The local news here in Seattle is a complete joke. I swear we live in Hooterville. The day of the AF disaster, it was about 25 minutes into the program before it even got a cursory mention. That's because no one from Seattle was on the plane. But a local guy who stubs his toe while walking on the Great Wall of China would be the lead story. I never understood how a city of this size still has media with such a small town mentality. But I digress.....back to topic: Can't stand the extremists on either side of the fence, agree that Olbermann should have stuck to ESPN
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:42 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 39):
Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
Corporate America has far more influence on you than the government does.

Wrong. Again.

I dunno, the government doesn't fill a third of TV broadcast time with propaganda. Corporate America does.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:59 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Do you think this is an accurate statement, and what are your opinions on this?

I've never really thought the nation has become more polarized, so much as those with stronger opinions have gotten louder megaphones and more coverage, ie Fox News, MSNBC, blogs, etc.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I think we will agree that these people represent the far right and far left of journalism.

I really wouldn't know Olbermann from a bump on a log but if he's as bad as the other two then they're all dreadful.
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redflyer
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:29 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 41):
I dunno, the government doesn't fill a third of TV broadcast time with propaganda. Corporate America does.

Everything you do is controlled to one extent or another by the government. When you turn on your TV, what comes through, be it via cable or broadcast, is controlled to one extent or another by the government. The coffee maker that brews your coffee is manufactured to standards established by the government. The coffee you brew in it is imported, sold, and taxed based on government meddling. When you turn on the electricity to power your coffee maker, that power is generated according to a myriad of mandates established by the government. The home you live in is built to government specifications. When you get in your car to go to work, it is in a vehicle that is manufactured under the watchful eye of the government and to standards established by the government. The street you drive on to get to work is built by government and you can drive only in a certain manner proscribed by a government entity. Need I go on?

What corporate entity meddles to that extent in our lives? Everything we do may be done with things manufactured or serviced by corporate entities, but none are done so by a SINGLE entity, such as the government. If I don't like my car, I can swap it out for another one by another corporate entity. But that other car will be built under the same rules and regulations and restrictions imposed by a single entity - the government. And we're only talking about the consumer side of our lives. You don't even want to get into restrictions placed on our lives based on laws - which are passed by the government.

(By the way, I'm not saying any of this is bad. Just don't try to say corporate America has more control or influence on our lives than the government does. It may have a lot of influence, maybe more than we are comfortable with, but it will never compare to the power government has on our lives.)
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ltbewr
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:10 am

I can't stand Bill O' or Hannity, I find their views and rants far from my viewpoints. Like Limbaugh, they are right wing entertainers. As to KO, I often watch 'Countdown' after I watch at least part of PBS's News Hour. I do have my issues with KO. I think he overdoes bashing FOX, Bill O' or Hannity are almost always on his daily 'Worse Persons' list in one of it's 3 positions. After a while he does sound shill and weak. He does offer a platform for left of center views, persons critical of the Republicans and DINO's. He does bring up the narrowmindedness of too many of the 'right wingers', some of their most vile comments, how they distort the people.
 
jm017
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:37 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
Do people REALLY buy into this news? I mean, yes they are presenting the facts, but the stories on both sides are so cut and edit and cherry picked, that you never know what the true story is. CNN seems to be in the middle. But the fact that these news anchors are on prime time, their audience is vast, and at times they seem to promote hate of one side or another, and they have SO much influence over the GOP and Democratic Party by only giving one side of the news. What happened to "Fair and Balanced" to use a FOX term.

While FOX currently causes the most controversy, because they seem the most angry and obvious about their political agendas, the left news agencies are doing their job almost as well now.

I'm sort of worried how much power the media has in polarizing this nation. They seem to be ripping us apart, rather than just report the news.

Do you think this is an accurate statement, and what are your opinions on this?

Here's how i look at it: these guys are entertainers. Their shows offer political commentary. I more lean to Olbermann than O'Reilly, but like you there are times I cannot tolerate Keith. There are times I think Olbermann is wrong and O'Reilly (or Beck) is right.

But I sometimes fear that people in general do not realise that the words of these commentators is opinion. Opinions presented with biased facts to support them. All these commentators do this. I find it funny that they accuse each other of doing this.

Honestly, the US seems so polarized these days. Not too many liberal-minded folk watch Bill O'Reilly. Not too many Conservatives can stomach Keith Olberman enough to watch his program. I think that is a shame.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:30 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
Why? Corporate America has far more influence on you than the government does. For instance, the government doesn't know what you spent your money on. But VISA does!

That's because you're using VISA's money to buy something, so they have every right to know. However, if you to pay by cash, then there is no trail.

And the government can track it too, especially if you're a government employee using the government credit card. Many military and civil service careers have been ruined over that one.

Quoting UAL747 (Thread starter):
I think we will agree that these people represent the far right and far left of journalism. While Keith Olbermann plays more to my tastes, sometimes I can't stand watching him just as much as I can't stand watching the people on Fox News.

When I first started listening to talk radio I liked Sean Hannity more but now I much prefer Rush. Hannity is a screamer, rarely let's people get their point across, and is always confrontational. Rush on the other hand usually listens, and disagrees in a much more polite and professional manner. He also spends the first two hours of the show talking about what he's going to talk about, and he finally gets to it around 5 or 5:30.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
It scares the piss out of me in healthcare. Blue Cross knows my medical history. So does AETNA. Every last shred of it. I'd FAR rather trust the government than either of these two.

I don't think that's any better. After all, how many times have the Chinese hacked our national defense systems? Too many to count. They've hacked into the Joint-Strike Fighter program. They've hacked into the Air Force's networks. And this stuff is far more important than medical records. Sounds to me like your stuff isn't any safer with the government.

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 13):
At least if Visa snooped on my spending habits, it would only be to either figure out how to get me to spend more of my money or to mitigate their exposure with regards to my ability to pay off my debt.

You don't see how that's exacting power on you? They can also say "we don't want to be your creditor anymore, please pay up. OR... submit to these demands."

The government does the same; with with money, then with other things.
And I'm not forced to give 20% of my pay-check to Corporate America. I am, however, forced to give a significant chunk of it to the local, state, and federal government, and Social Security.
Also, being a lawyer, you should know tracking your spending habits is how the government often catches drug dealers - via tax evasion. "Well, you live in an pretty nice home and drive a pretty fancy to car to just be garbage man. Care to explain that one?"
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drgreen757
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:17 pm

I don't understand why so many people hate O'Reilly....I love the guy. We have many of the same beliefs and he reminds me alot of my Grandfather. If you're asked a question and don't answer it or dance around it....you get shot down, plain and simple, I like that. I also like that he goes after these piece of crap judges who let child molesters out on ridiculous bails or non at all. I have a Jessica's Law sticker on the back of my truck and support this fight. And yes, I do try to watch the other ones on MSNBC or CNN, but I can never do it....they leave me with a sick feeling in my gut....so hey, I tried. Thats my two cents.

O'Reilly Rules!
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Zentraedi
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:28 am



Quoting Drgreen757 (Reply 47):
I don't understand why so many people hate O'Reilly....I love the guy. We have many of the same beliefs and he reminds me alot of my Grandfather. If you're asked a question and don't answer it or dance around it....you get shot down, plain and simple, I like that.

Well, many people despise him because he's just a flat out hypocrite and changes view on certain things just to support a right wing agenda. There are way to many example to list here, but I'll give you a few:

Parents of single mothers: Britney Spears' mother is trash, but he holds Palin like the Virgin Mary. lol, they're both incompetent mothers, but since much of his audience are Palin supporters, he won't dare offend them.

The whole "You have a right not to be called a homophobe." This is just nonsense and Bill KNOWS it. Still, his right leaning audience wants to hear stuff like that so they feel better about themselves. Come on, lefties have every right to you a name, just like righties have every right to call lefties name. The people who can't handle it, they're called pussies....
 
StarAC17
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RE: Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Keith Olbermann

Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:08 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 44):
As to KO, I often watch 'Countdown' after I watch at least part of PBS's News Hour. I do have my issues with KO. I think he overdoes bashing FOX, Bill O' or Hannity are almost always on his daily 'Worse Persons' list in one of it's 3 positions. After a while he does sound shill and weak

Olbermann bashes Fox and Rush no more and probably less than Bill O' goes after MSNBC, The Huffington post or the Daily Kos to name just 3 left wing organizations he bashes.

And as I said in reply 24 and which was explained to me in reply 25 is that Olbermann mocks the right with something like Worst Persons' as its obviously not serious (Ironically Best Persons usually makes fun of a much worse idiot criminal). The right then responds by ranting and raving as they are the victims of a left wing media conspiracy that no one is really buying anymore, except for staunch conservatives.

Also its interesting to note that when the democrats get beaten in elections they go away and regroup but when the GOP loses its either a conspiracy or the public was dumb an never their fault. This is what Hannity and Limbaugh are doing right now on fox and on radio every day. I would actually bet someone even money that O'Reilly who is an independant actually voted for Obama because if you watch the factor closely you really don't see direct attacks against him but they are focused more on congress or the extreme left, there are some disagreements but nothing inflammatory.
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