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DocLightning
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Obama In Paris

Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:50 pm

So my prediction is that it will be within 24 hours that some conservative windbag will slam Obama for taking some time off with the family in Paris.

Well, he's the President, he's worked hard, and he deserves a few hours with his wife and kids, aright?

Not so fast...

http://mikesamerica.blogspot.com/200...paris-for.html#2790755599763816126

Apparently a President is NEVER allowed to take a vacation? Remember, he's NOT ALLOWED to fly on any plane other than AF-1 and the Secret Service HAS to go with him. So a simple trip to Martha's Vinyard becomes a tens-of-thousands-of-dollars affair.

And now this windbag is demanding that Obama give a full disclosure of every dime he spends on unofficial business from his own money.

I knew it was coming. I knew it...
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ozglobal
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RE: Obama In Paris

Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:27 pm

Pretty low key here. His visit has taken something of a back seat to the EU elections and the AF447 tragedy.
Today, all I heard was that Michelle and children had stayed on for a bit longer to go shopping and celebrate a birthday. They're just down the street form me a few hundred metres, as I live at Opera near rue du Faubourg Saint Honore, with all the boutiques and the Palais Elysee.

As for right wing US wind bags, who's listening?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Obama In Paris

Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:29 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Apparently a President is NEVER allowed to take a vacation?

How soon some people forget. I mean, just how many times did GWB retreat to the farm in Texas?

In this case, Obama was already in Paris anyway - and it's not like flying 3 persons + whatever hanger-on's IAD-CDG/ORY is a hugely expensive business anyway  Yeah sure
 
texan
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RE: Obama In Paris

Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:49 pm

Apparently a colleague of mine over in Paris had coffee with the Obama family today. She hasn't told me the details yet, though.

Texan
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dallasnewark
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:47 am



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
So my prediction is that it will be within 24 hours that some conservative windbag will slam Obama for taking some time off with the family in Paris.

Well, he's the President, he's worked hard, and he deserves a few hours with his wife and kids, aright?

Not so fast...

http://mikesamerica.blogspot.com/200...paris-for.html#2790755599763816126

Apparently a President is NEVER allowed to take a vacation? Remember, he's NOT ALLOWED to fly on any plane other than AF-1 and the Secret Service HAS to go with him. So a simple trip to Martha's Vinyard becomes a tens-of-thousands-of-dollars affair.

And now this windbag is demanding that Obama give a full disclosure of every dime he spends on unofficial business from his own money.

I knew it was coming. I knew it...

What is your obsession with Obama? I mean what has he done besides running his mouth? He promised so much during his campaign, but his actions have not amounted to much, besides plunging this country into more debt via the stimulus bill, nationalizng AIG and soon to follow GM.

Go ahead, take your shot at me by calling me a "conservative windbag" which I'm not
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HOMER71
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:27 am

Even more annoying than the conservative "windbags" is the media fawning over the Obamas, tracking their every move, going into detail their outings and what they're wearing and how cute/beautiful they look, blah blah blah. I mean, am I watching CNN Newsroom, or Entertainment Tonight?

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 4):
He promised so much during his campaign, but his actions have not amounted to much, besides plunging this country into more debt via the stimulus bill, nationalizng AIG and soon to follow GM.

Standard Obama response: "I inherited this economy"...translated "It's Bush's fault"
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:46 am



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):
Today, all I heard was that Michelle and children had stayed on for a bit longer to go shopping and celebrate a birthday.

Just to point out that Obama's family did not simply hitch a ride on Air Force One, as is usual and would not raise many eyebrows. In this case, she was flown over seperately, which is an added expense.
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Klaus
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:05 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Just to point out that Obama's family did not simply hitch a ride on Air Force One, as is usual and would not raise many eyebrows. In this case, she was flown over seperately, which is an added expense.

You think Obama should have dragged his family through Egypt and Germany instead of meeting them on the last leg of his tour?  eyebrow 

Except if they had been held locked away in their hotel rooms the additional security would have produced substantial costs as well. Compared to the total budget for this trip I would guess moving the family to Paris will be one of the smaller positions.

If nothing else, the high tension and the political themes of his political program on this tour would have made that an extremely inappropriate choice. The way they handled this was actually quite smart: Closing an extremely important but rather somberly themed political journey on a lighter note is a good PR move not just for the president himself but for the country he represents as well.

I am almost certain this was carefully orchestrated to raise the overall effect of this trip.

Not that I'd find it inappropriate at all that cost issues are being scrutinized; In a democracy proper oversight is always a good thing.


No, what I find somewhat troubling is the extremely low level on which criticism is coming from the US right, as if they were completely unable to produce any actual meaningful opposition and had to resort to petty complaints to come up with anything at all.

They seem to be completely empty-handed regarding actual policies exceeding their stereotypically hollow "lower taxes!" mantra.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:26 am



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
So my prediction is that it will be within 24 hours that some conservative windbag will slam Obama for taking some time off with the family in Paris.

I can show you a right-wing website where they've already done that.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Just to point out that Obama's family did not simply hitch a ride on Air Force One, as is usual and would not raise many eyebrows. In this case, she was flown over seperately, which is an added expense.

And? So? Do you think the Bush family/families, or the Reagan family didn't every do that? Do you deny the President of the United States to have his family go with him, simply because you can't stand him? You hold him to a different standard.

Your hypocricy and nit-picking knows no bounds, Charles. It's so sickening typical of the mindset of the right these days, that they pick on anything and everything.

Find a REAL issue to bitch about.  Yeah sure
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:27 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
You think Obama should have dragged his family through Egypt and Germany instead of meeting them on the last leg of his tour?   

I think that the GOP should have a consultant - or a blogger - figure out how much the extra weight of carrying the First Lady and her daughter all over the middle east would have been, dont forget the cost of food...

And then compare it to the cost of an additional flight. If they really want a fair comparison. But of course that just crazy.
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Falcon84
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:55 am

Here's one Republican who is pissed off:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0...ley-obamas-got-nerve_n_212301.html

Memo to Chuck: your job is to craft the legislation. The President's is to represent the United States at a function, say like the anniversary of D-Day. That straighten out your jobs? Good. Now, STFU, and get to work on the legislation.

Unbeliefable.
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:34 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Your hypocricy and nit-picking knows no bounds, Charles. It's so sickening typical of the mindset of the right these days, that they pick on anything and everything.

Jeez, dude, take a valium and get your anger issues under control. Did I even say anything negative about Obama? I was just pointing out the reason why some people got upset - not because of Mrs Obama going on the trip, but that they had to provide a separate plane(s) and associated costs.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Do you deny the President of the United States to have his family go with him, simply because you can't stand him?

I do question the need to provide seperate aircraft for long distance trips. I don't know if it's been done before or not, but I would say that the president's wife should either travel with the president or stay home for the trip. But since wasting government money has been termed as "stimulus" by this government, I don't see anything inconsistant, and I refuse to get upset at this when there are a lot bigger spending programs to get PO'd about.
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FreequentFlier
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:01 am



Quoting Homer71 (Reply 5):
Even more annoying than the conservative "windbags" is the media fawning over the Obamas, tracking their every move, going into detail their outings and what they're wearing and how cute/beautiful they look, blah blah blah. I mean, am I watching CNN Newsroom, or Entertainment Tonight?

Why are you surprised? We labeled him a celebrity President way before he became President. As is usual with this President, the critics were right. So again, what's the surprise? Obama is everything many of us thought he would be and more. Inexperienced, envious, shallow, and self-obsessed among other not so wonderful qualities.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
No, what I find somewhat troubling is the extremely low level on which criticism is coming from the US right, as if they were completely unable to produce any actual meaningful opposition and had to resort to petty complaints to come up with anything at all.

Klaus, get over yourself. You want legitimate criticism, here it is. Your hero is bankrupting my country.

Big version: Width: 400 Height: 330 File size: 25kb


Some of us don't find him so heroic.
 
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:06 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):

I do question the need to provide seperate aircraft for long distance trips.

Do you know if Michelle flew on a government craft to get there? I know that Chelsea Clinton always flew commercial carriers unless she was traveling with her father. The White House picks up the tab for the associated Secret Service guards, though.
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seb146
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:07 pm



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 1):
As for right wing US wind bags, who's listening?

You would really be surprised how many Americans actually take these people seriously enough to try to throw elections.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Apparently a President is NEVER allowed to take a vacation?

Until it reaches a third of his term, then it is okay. Until the president is taking a vacation/funraiser while a major city is drowning, it is okay.

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 4):
but his actions have not amounted to much,

Which has been said since the first day he was elected. Find another excuse to hate Obama, please.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 12):
Some of us don't find him so heroic.

Oh, geez... not that again. Can we clarify something? What the right is so pissed off about in regards to that chart: IIRC, the huge dip includes the cost of the war in Iraq, which Bush wanted but did not want to pay for AND blind bobble-head supporters of Bush wanted so badly. Yet, it is Obama's fault. Explain, please? I guess he could have pulled a right-wing and just pushed all that debt onto our grand children and great-grand children.
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Phoenix9
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:17 pm

Ah geez...WTF. Why can't people come to terms with the fact that Obama was elected and is doing his job as a president? Why there must always be nit-picking one way or the other? There have been so many threads on A.net with someone either bashing Bush or Obama. Majority of the people thought Bush didn't do a good job so they elected Obama....a good example of democracy.....get over it!! No one is perfect....and never will be. The fact is he will be the president for next 4 years (unless something unforseen happens)...if you don't like what he did in those 4 years....vote for a different guy. Until then don't bitch about little things.....there are much worse problems facing the US and the World.

[Edited 2009-06-08 08:20:04]
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:26 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Do you know if Michelle flew on a government craft to get there? I know that Chelsea Clinton always flew commercial carriers unless she was traveling with her father.

Do you REALLY think that Michelle would travel commercial if she had the choice? Never mind that the Secret Service would never allow it.
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Falcon84
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:28 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11):
Jeez, dude, take a valium and get your anger issues under control. Did I even say anything negative about Obama? I was just pointing out the reason why some people got upset - not because of Mrs Obama going on the trip, but that they had to provide a separate plane(s) and associated costs.

Brovo Sierra, Charles. YOUR upset over it. Don't attribute to others what you yourself are feeling. You are looking for a reason to get pissed, and you found one. At least be man enough to stand behind your own words, and not try to deflect them by saying "some people". It's you, and you know it.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 12):
Some of us don't find him so heroic.

Just as some of us didn't find Ronald Reagan to be the Second Coming, as the GOP obviously does. I think it's hysterical that the Right pawns off to the nation this Hero Worshp of the Myth that was Reagan, yet if anyone even show admiration for President Obama, they get hit with all kinds of insults from the right.

Do as we say, not as we do, eh?
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:06 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):

Do you REALLY think that Michelle would travel commercial if she had the choice? Never mind that the Secret Service would never allow it.

The Secret Service allowed Chelsea to travel commercial. So I can't imagine that Michelle and the Girls would be any different. I don't know. Do you know?
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:01 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
Brovo Sierra, Charles. YOUR upset over it. Don't attribute to others what you yourself are feeling. You are looking for a reason to get pissed, and you found one.

I just told you, I'm not pissed about it. It's a peanuts issue.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
Just as some of us didn't find Ronald Reagan to be the Second Coming, as the GOP obviously does. I think it's hysterical that the Right pawns off to the nation this Hero Worshp of the Myth that was Reagan, yet if anyone even show admiration for President Obama, they get hit with all kinds of insults from the right.

Oh, man. You want to compare? You really want to compare?

Here is Evan Thomas of Newsweek calling Obama "some kind of god", and how he is supposedly trancending borders.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=ydaG6UprkU

Sure, we loved Reagan. But it never got to this level. This Obama-worship is just nuts.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:24 pm

These are my questions about the Obama family's trip to Paris:

How much did this trip cost... the US tax payers?
How much came out... of the President's pocket?
How much did it cost... French tax payers (I imagine that part of the trip was paid by France).

Any idea? I am just curious to know.  Yeah sure
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Falcon84
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:55 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 20):
How much did this trip cost... the US tax payers?
How much came out... of the President's pocket?
How much did it cost... French tax payers (I imagine that part of the trip was paid by France).

Any idea? I am just curious to know.

None comes out of the President's pocket. His travel, like all President's, is picked up by the tax payers.

As for the French, whatever security they put around the president and First Family to augment U.S. security they paid for.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 19):
Oh, man. You want to compare? You really want to compare?

Here is Evan Thomas of Newsweek calling Obama "some kind of god", and how he is supposedly trancending borders.

Ask John Boehner, who just bawled like a baby when his statute was unveiled. Yes, there is a comparison, because the right has been building up the Myth of Reagan for almost 30 years now. It isn't what the truth was, but he Myth looks pretty good.

Actually, there is no comparison, as Obama has been in office 5 months. The spin on Reagan's image has been going on for 3 decades now. So you're right. There is no comparison.  Big grin
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:11 pm

Michelle Obama and the kids have now moved on to London, a 757 from the presidential fleet is sitting at STN today it was shown on the BBC news. the reg ended with a 3, it think it was 290003

They were last seen sightseeing near Big Ben.
 
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RE: Obama In Paris

Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:37 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 19):
Oh, man. You want to compare? You really want to compare?

Here is Evan Thomas of Newsweek calling Obama "some kind of god", and how he is supposedly trancending borders.

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=ydaG6UprkU

Sure, we loved Reagan. But it never got to this level. This Obama-worship is just nuts.

Yes this was absolutely disgusting. I obviously liked Reagan but if someone compared him to a deity, I would be appalled. The absolute worship of this President by the press is getting out of control. I will never buy another Newsweek ever again, nor will I ever bother reading a Newsweek link. The magazine should be embarrassed by itself. It's not, which is why it's heading towards going out of business.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
Ask John Boehner, who just bawled like a baby when his statute was unveiled.

You're embarrassing yourself now Falcon. Crying at the unveiling of a statue of someone who has passed away is akin to deifying a sitting President? Um...ok.
 
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:01 am



Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 4):
What is your obsession with Obama? I mean what has he done besides running his mouth? He promised so much during his campaign, but his actions have not amounted to much, besides plunging this country into more debt via the stimulus bill, nationalizng AIG

The AIG nationalization happened in 2008, while Bush was president.
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seb146
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:43 am



Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 23):
Crying at the unveiling of a statue of someone who has passed away is akin to deifying a sitting President? Um...ok.

You have to admit, it is a little bit eepy-cray, don't you think? People, especially the Right, seem to forget that Reagan ballooned the deficit, slashed taxes all the way around and spent like he had not a care in the world. Because Soviet Premier Gorbachav decided to disband Warsaw Pact while Reagan was in office, that, in some twisted way, makes Reagan the greatest president ever including the ones not even elected yet. It was wonderful that Gorbachav decided to disband the WP. But, to heap every last ounce of praise and sainthood onto Ronnie is streching it a bit, don't you think?

Add to that the fact that "Impeach Obama" bumper stickers started coming out as soon as he won the election. Impeach him? For what? In November? He was not even president yet! Did he invade a soverign nation AFTER telling Congress he would wait and ask formal permission? That is called lying. It got another president into impeachment proceedings, IIRC.

To feel pride over a statue is one thing, but to cry? C'mon.

As far as Obama's trip, anytime the man goes anywhere for any reason, there will be outrage from the radical Right. There will always be those, from Limbaugh to Hannity to O'Reilly and all the others saying he is pandering to the masses and appeasing the enemy and so forth. What is good for the right is a removable offence for the left.
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Falcon84
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:57 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 25):
Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 23):
Crying at the unveiling of a statue of someone who has passed away is akin to deifying a sitting President? Um...ok.

You have to admit, it is a little bit eepy-cray, don't you think?

Very. It was a show for the media, nothing else. Perhaps he's trying to convey that HE is the heir to the Regan Revolution, or the tatters that is left of it-or of the Myth that the conservatives have made around Reagan.

Which is why listening to the conservatives babble about Obama is funny. And, if anyone notices, it's only Conservatives that call him "The Messiah" or "The Chosen One", or some other absurd name. They are the ones perpetuating this nonsense, not liberals.
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:43 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Which is why listening to the conservatives babble about Obama is funny. And, if anyone notices, it's only Conservatives that call him "The Messiah" or "The Chosen One", or some other absurd name. They are the ones perpetuating this nonsense, not liberals.

....except for the liberals that do, like Evan Thomas who compared the President to God on Friday. And Chris Matthews who proceeded to agree with him. But we've already told you that in this very thread. Easier to pretend it doesn't happen when you ignore other posters.

But nope, this is just a figure of our imagination.
 
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:49 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):So my prediction is that it will be within 24 hours that some conservative windbag will slam Obama for taking some time off with the family in Paris.
I can show you a right-wing website where they've already done that.

What a shock!   I was just about to say that 24 hours is way too long.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 19):
Sure, we loved Reagan. But it never got to this level. This Obama-worship is just nuts

 redflag  Oh please, the hero-worship and deification of Reagan by some in the GOP knows no bounds.

[Edited 2009-06-08 20:55:40]
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seb146
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:42 pm



Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 27):
except for the liberals that do, like Evan Thomas who compared the President to God on Friday. And Chris Matthews who proceeded to agree with him.

Two on the left compared to how many right wingers that went absolutly nuts when they saw Obama was energizing the country. This is just showing that the right has no one to energize their own the way Obama has energized the country. The right wing talking heads have been pissed about this is my guess as to why they disrespect him so much. Further, the only way the right wing talking heads think they can energize their own and the nation is to drag down the one person who united a majority of people instead of firmly supporting one person and getting crazy over that one person. Reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator. Divide and conquer seems to me what the right wing talkers have been doing for years. Whoever yells the loudest and calls the most names is the winner.
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dallasnewark
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:04 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 4):
but his actions have not amounted to much,

Which has been said since the first day he was elected. Find another excuse to hate Obama, please.

Can you find an excuse to start a reading comprehension course? Did I ever say anywhere that I hated the guy?

The truth really hurts, does it. You cannot provide any factual arguments to my statement that his actions have not amounted to much and instead accuse me of hating him. Typical behavior of a clueless liberal.

How's the unemployment rate in Oregon, about 11 percent right now? The Stimulus Bill is doing wonders for your state
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 29):
Two on the left compared to how many right wingers that went absolutly nuts when they saw Obama was energizing the country. This is just showing that the right has no one to energize their own the way Obama has energized the country.

You think we oppose him because we are jealous ?????

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 29):
The right wing talking heads have been pissed about this is my guess as to why they disrespect him so much.

We will give him as much respect as you showed the Governor of Alaska or the previous President.
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Zentraedi
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:46 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
We will give him as much respect as you showed the Governor of Alaska or the previous President.

They're not even comparable on the same level. With Bush, he might have had some slips or ineloquent moments, but you still knew what he was saying.

Palin on the other hand just spits out a random word soup of things that pop into her mind. Regardless of her views, most people disrespect her because of that. Hell, there are people who are more conservative, but don't receive ridicule because they don't come off as a joke.

Also, what does that say about you when the level of respect you confer on whomever is based how their fans act towards things you like? If someone hates Eric Clapton, that doesn't make me want to go and mock their favorite artist.
 
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:20 pm



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 32):
Palin on the other hand just spits out a random word soup of things that pop into her mind. Regardless of her views, most people disrespect her because of that. Hell, there are people who are more conservative, but don't receive ridicule because they don't come off as a joke.

I think what comes out of Obama's mouth is equally if not more ignorant. He sounds good and looks great saying it (which seems enough to win a lot of people over), but I still think it's high-smelling BS. If you say you disrespect Palin because you thought she was full of it, how can you blame me for doing the same for Obama, whose economic and social philosophy I think are suicidal past the point of stupidity?
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DocLightning
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:39 pm



Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 32):

Palin on the other hand just spits out a random word soup of things that pop into her mind.



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 33):

I think what comes out of Obama's mouth is equally if not more ignorant.

DING!!! and that's the end of that round of off-topic bashing of our least-favorite politicians! Thank you for playing! We'll continue this game in...another thread, please. (Forgive my vigilante mod-ism)

Now, back on topic, Dreadnought, I have looked to find out if Mrs. Obama took a commercial or government flight to Paris. I have not found an answer. Have you?
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FreequentFlier
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:12 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 29):

Two on the left compared to how many right wingers that went absolutly nuts when they saw Obama was energizing the country. This is just showing that the right has no one to energize their own the way Obama has energized the country. The right wing talking heads have been pissed about this is my guess as to why they disrespect him so much. Further, the only way the right wing talking heads think they can energize their own and the nation is to drag down the one person who united a majority of people instead of firmly supporting one person and getting crazy over that one person. Reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator. Divide and conquer seems to me what the right wing talkers have been doing for years. Whoever yells the loudest and calls the most names is the winner.

If you call 9 and a half percent unemployment and trillion dollar deficits "energizing the country", then please stop doing it.

It obviously grates some of Obama's more sycophantic supporters that some of us don't think he's anything special, let alone the cat's meow. What's really upsetting them I bet is that based on what's happening with unemployment and deficits, their hero is setting himself to be Jimmy Carter the 2nd and a one termer as well. Aside from being the first African American president in American history, history will not be kind to this presidency.
 
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RE: Obama In Paris

Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:38 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
Now, back on topic, Dreadnought, I have looked to find out if Mrs. Obama took a commercial or government flight to Paris. I have not found an answer. Have you?

Somebody posted earlier that she was flown overseas in one of the Presidential Wing's 757s.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
DING!!! and that's the end of that round of off-topic bashing of our least-favorite politicians! Thank you for playing! We'll continue this game in...another thread, please. (Forgive my vigilante mod-ism)

Sorry for getting off topic. I was just pointing out the reciprocity involved after Zentraedi claimed that slagging someone like Sarah Palin is OK because, in his opinion, she's a dummy. Well, I think Obama is a dummy too, so can I not show every ounce of disrespect and vileness that was hurled at Palin?
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:09 am



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I knew it was coming. I knew it...

As well it should. Not only did they use a 757 instead of a smaller jet, it most likely deadheaded back across the Atlantic. Meanwhile companies have been berated for sending people to conventions in Las Vegas and such. Just another case of "Do as I say, not as I do". Wonder where the next incredible "date" night will take them? I would say the tropics but they did that with their trip to Hawaii so maybe Australia?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
Except if they had been held locked away in their hotel rooms the additional security would have produced substantial costs as well. Compared to the total budget for this trip I would guess moving the family to Paris will be one of the smaller positions.

I doubt that. The cost of a 757 and crew flying the Atlantic and then deadheading back probably far outstrips the cost of taking along the same security contingent on AF1, riding the the same car etc. etc.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
Do you deny the President of the United States to have his family go with him, simply because you can't stand him? You hold him to a different standard.

When he is preaching frugality on the part of Americans I see setting up a special flight as being a "Do as I say, not as I do." example. It shows poor leadership since if you are going to ask your constituents to do something, you should be first in line doing the same thing.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 10):
The President's is to represent the United States at a function, say like the anniversary of D-Day.

Right there on Obama Beach!!!!  footinmouth   laughing  Who knew? All these years I thought it was Omaha.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
The Secret Service allowed Chelsea to travel commercial. So I can't imagine that Michelle and the Girls would be any different. I don't know. Do you know?

They didn't allow Hillary to travel commercial when she was first lady. Chelsea traveled commercial after she turned 18 and started attending Stanford.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
None comes out of the President's pocket. His travel, like all President's, is picked up by the tax payers.

Not exactly. The President has an "expense account" for lack of a better word when it comes to travel. When he travels to places like Hollywood a few weeks ago his time spent fundraising is pro-rated against his time spent actually doing something Presidential and the DNC picks up the difference.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36):
Somebody posted earlier that she was flown overseas in one of the Presidential Wing's 757s.

Correct.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 22):
Michelle Obama and the kids have now moved on to London, a 757 from the presidential fleet is sitting at STN today it was shown on the BBC news. the reg ended with a 3, it think it was 290003

Couldn't use a C-20 could they? Nancy Pelosi must have been pissed when she found out Michelle had commandeered her airplane! Either that or Joe had to spend the weekend at home!
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:37 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 37):
I doubt that. The cost of a 757 and crew flying the Atlantic and then deadheading back probably far outstrips the cost of taking along the same security contingent on AF1, riding the the same car etc. etc.

Dragging the entire family along through all the stations of this particular trip would have been especially difficult if not impossible security-wise, an ordeal for the kids and on top of that an unwelcome distraction on at least the Cairo and Buchenwald stops.

I've not checked the available presidential transports, but the family plus their nontrivial security detail would have been a rather tight fit for a Gulfstream-sized jet. Of course commercial tickets might have been an alternative, but the associated security concerns would probably have been rather disruptive to the other passengers and quite costly and cumbersome for the airline which would most likely want to be reimbursed (just imagine the added complications if a technical switch of the airplane was required at the last minute!).

A modern BBJ would probably be more efficient than the somewhat elderly 757, but how many practical alternatives would have been there now?

You obviously want to find nefarious motives in it all, but the reality might just not be as simple as you'd like it to be.
 
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:24 am



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
So my prediction is that it will be within 24 hours that some conservative windbag will slam Obama for taking some time off with the family in Paris.

I have no issue with the Obama's taking extra personal time on an already planned business trip. The should take advantage of that while there. However, I do have issue with his jaunt to NYC for date night with Michelle on the tax payers dime. There isn't anything that they did in NYC that they could've done in DC.
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:38 am



Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 39):

I have no issue with the Obama's taking extra personal time on an already planned business trip. The should take advantage of that while there. However, I do have issue with his jaunt to NYC for date night with Michelle on the tax payers dime. There isn't anything that they did in NYC that they could've done in DC.

So what you're saying is that no President should ever be allowed to travel for pleasure.
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:53 am

If you'll permit a "foreigners" opinion... for goodness sake! President Obama took a presidential trip to numerous nations, and his family joined him for the last leg in Paris. What is wrong with that?

Is a president not allowed travel with his family? Spend time with his family? Spend pleasure time with his family?

The right-wing / Obama bashing posters here just show the reasons the entire planet and a large proportion of the US saw when electing Obama, leaving the conservatives behind for a while.

Some argue about the plane his family flew on. I am so sure had Obama's family traveled with him throughout the entire trip, the same people would be complaining, if they had traveled on the same plane, they'd be complaining, if they had flown on a commercial flight, they'd be complaining. Their agenda is clear, everyone can see it. No matter what Obama does, he will be accused, criticised... And do remember as some of you complain about your unemployment levels, etc, the entire world is in the depths of one of the most serious recessions ever... This is not Obama's fault. He was not in government when the storm started.

And while I agree we still need time to see if President Obama's presidency will be a good one, for those of you saying it's not... it's too early to make such a statement. However; one thing is clear... the change from Bush to Obama has already vastly improved the globe's perception of the US and its politics, after Bushing bringing the image of the US abroad to an all-time low.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Have a good day all my US friends in your beautiful nation!
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:14 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
So what you're saying is that no President should ever be allowed to travel for pleasure.

For pleasure only, for something that can be done in DC.... no! Not on the tax payers dime.
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:06 am



Quoting Toulouse (Reply 41):
If you'll permit a "foreigners" opinion... for goodness sake! President Obama took a presidential trip to numerous nations, and his family joined him for the last leg in Paris. What is wrong with that?

Then they took their 757 without the president to London, purely for a shopping and tourism trip. Take a look below - this was hardly a low-key trip with little expense.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6466571.ece
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:37 am

Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 42):
For pleasure only, for something that can be done in DC.... no! Not on the tax payers dime.

So you would be really upset if the President flew to NYC stayed at a $1,7000 a night suite at the Waldorf, took in a Briadway show or two, went to the Ballet and had lunch in Little Italy?






Sounds just like Reagan's March 13, 1981 visit to New York! Guess there are some things that even Republicans can't do in DC.

[Edited 2009-06-10 04:41:50]
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:39 pm



Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 35):
If you call 9 and a half percent unemployment and trillion dollar deficits "energizing the country", then please stop doing it.

Right. So, none of that at all was set up by your fly-boy party-boy Bush? None of that had anything to do with Bush? All of that started the SECOND Obama was sworn in? Absolutly everything went swimmingly under Bush?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):
We will give him as much respect as you showed the Governor of Alaska or the previous President.

Hmmm... One is the governer of the least populated state (for 18 months) that is subsidized mostly by big oil and the other did what he wanted instead of following the will of the people and, at times, the Constitution.

It is just stunning to me that absolutly everything that is going wrong has been Obama's fault ever since the first second he won the election. A few even started blaming him the second he was nominated! C'mon, people! These problems starte under Bush and you all know it. But, Republicans insist on putting party before country and being obstrucionists instead of working for the greater good of this great nation and working with the majority. Before the whole "well, Dems did it too" think about this: Dems were blocking, among other things, a war that was questionable at best and methods of gathering information that was, also, questionable at best.
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:08 pm



Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 42):

For pleasure only, for something that can be done in DC.... no! Not on the tax payers dime.

You can't have dinner in New York in DC. When I lived in New York, I'd get out to other cities all the time.

Newsflash: Presidents cost a lot of money to keep safe. When Bush went on vacation, as long as it wasn't in the middle of a major crisis, nobody complained. Yes, it meant that he had to fly AF-1 with the whole retinue. My guess is that to fly him ANYWHERE takes at least a half million dollars. That's what happens when a President wants to go somewhere.

To demand that the man never take a purely personal trip in his four to eight years as President is ludicrous.
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:37 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Dragging the entire family along through all the stations of this particular trip would have been especially difficult if not impossible security-wise, an ordeal for the kids and on top of that an unwelcome distraction on at least the Cairo and Buchenwald stops.

Why? These kids have a nanny in D.C., called their grandmother. Getting a couple of staffers to come along as nannys, or even bringing grandma along, since we pay for her to live in the White House anyway would be no big deal. Still cheaper than flying a 757 across the ocean and having it sit waiting on them then deadheading back across the ocean. How they would have been a distraction is beyond me. I'm sure they could have been provided with an Ipod and some dvd's to keep them interested. Again, it would have been cheaper to do that than the plan they finally ended up going with.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
I've not checked the available presidential transports, but the family plus their nontrivial security detail would have been a rather tight fit for a Gulfstream-sized jet.

The security detail could have gone ahead on commercial flights.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
You obviously want to find nefarious motives in it all, but the reality might just not be as simple as you'd like it to be.

Just as you are proving able to excuse anything that they do as just fine and dandy. For a President that has been cracking down on CEO's and companies for spending lavishly, he certainly isn't taking his own advice.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 44):
So you would be really upset if the President flew to NYC stayed at a $1,7000 a night suite at the Waldorf, took in a Briadway show or two, went to the Ballet and had lunch in Little Italy?

Actually that trip really was a nice gesture. As it turns out he even paid for some of the air travel cost not to mention the hotel, dinner, and show. It would have been a much better PR stunt if he had taken the train rather than burning who knows how many hydrocarbons but be that as it may, he's just as entitled to spend his money the way he wants as any other citizen is. I said the same thing about the ring he bought his wife after the election. What bothers me in this situation is that the taxpayer did pick up the cost of that 757 going across the ocean and while I'm sure its probably been done in the past, since this President is pitching the green line and saving money, it sure flies in the face of that. Just another case of "Do as I say".
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dtwclipper
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:56 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 47):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 44):
So you would be really upset if the President flew to NYC stayed at a $1,7000 a night suite at the Waldorf, took in a Briadway show or two, went to the Ballet and had lunch in Little Italy?

Actually that trip really was a nice gesture. As it turns out he even paid for some of the air travel cost not to mention the hotel, dinner, and show. It would have been a much better PR stunt if he had taken the train rather than burning who knows how many hydrocarbons but be that as it may

You do realize I was talking about Ronald Reagan's March 1981 visit to New York?

My point was, that both GOP and Democratic presidents should be allowed a little time off and enjoy life.
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dxing
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RE: Obama In Paris

Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:10 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 48):
You do realize I was talking about Ronald Reagan's March 1981 visit to New York?

My point was, that both GOP and Democratic presidents should be allowed a little time off and enjoy life.

Both trips, Reagans and Obama's I have no quibble with. I don't know the finances of the Reagans trip but in the case of Obama I do know that news reporrts have him paying for dinner, the show, and part of the air travel cost.
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