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SOBHI51
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WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:11 pm

http://news.aol.com/article/state-tr...2Fstate-trooper-ambulance%2F527730

So who should yield? A police cruiser on its way to a crime scene or an ambulance carrying a sick person?
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BMI727
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:15 pm

I don't really know. The St. Louis Fire Department has a unique solution to this problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3uoVOOlT2s
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flymia
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:32 pm

I am going to say if this did happen that the Ambulance would go first for the simple reason that police cars are a lot faster than Ambulances.
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iflyatldl
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:47 pm

Well, the big problem with this(and what got the Ambulance stopped) was the fact the Emergency Lights weren't on. That aside, the video speaks for itself and the Trooper went over the top. Back to the question, you always yield to an emergency vehicle when it's lights are on. Me personally, I yield to emergency vehicles even when their lights aren't operating as a courtesy. Reason: I'd rather be behind them when their lights go off and they're called into service, instead of front. I would think it's the vehicle with it's Emergency Lights on. But, that's just me.  

[Edited 2009-06-16 15:49:09]
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Jpax
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:50 am

After seeing that video, I did not know that choking a man is an allowed method of restraint.
 
fr8mech
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:38 am

We always taught that if 2 emergency vehicles, regardless of agency, reached an intersection at the same time, the right of way is yielded to the vehicle that has the green light or without the stop sign. In the event that it's a 4-way stop, the vehicle on the right has the right of way.

In the case of the video, under no circumstances was a vehicle running code-3 to pass another running code-3, regardless of agency. If the lead driver chooses to yield, for whatever reason, he had to switch off his equipment and yield. I've never seen this done and it was discouraged; the public does enough stupid things when they see lights and sirens, better not to add variables.
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Springbok747
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:05 am

The Ambulance always has the right of way here.

78—Keeping clear of police and emergency vehicles
(1) A driver must not move into the path of an approaching police or emergency vehicle
that is displaying a flashing blue or red light (whether or not it is also displaying other
lights) or sounding an alarm. An Ambulance ALWAYS has the right-of-way over other emergency vehicles.
Offence provision.
Note—
Approaching, emergency vehicle and police vehicle are defined in the dictionary.
(2) If a driver is in the path of an approaching police or emergency vehicle that is
displaying a flashing blue or red light (whether or not it is also displaying other lights)
or sounding an alarm, the driver must move out of the path of the vehicle as soon as
the driver can do so safely.
Offence provision.
(3) This rule applies to the driver despite any other rule of the Australian Road Rules.

From http://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/
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Okie
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:11 am

Lots of media going on about the incident in the area.

Problem 1
What was trooper doing on an emergency call with wife in car.
Problem 2
What happened to the call that the officer was suppose to be on that was an emergency.
Problem 3
Why did the officer involved call for back up of the ambulance stop and cancel the call that he was suppose to answer and another back up officer pulled off the original call.
Problem 4
When officer was informed of patient in ambulance he did not as suggested go to the hospital and resolve the issue there.
Problem 5
The paramedic that was attacked was in the back with the patient not the driver of the ambulance
Problem 6
His superiors put him on paid suspended leave but claimed the problem was with the paramedics and patient. The officer was not putting the patients life endanger.
Problem 7
It took threats of court order to get the police dash cam recording released "public document" that highway patrol claim are not public documents.

It has been pretty entertaining to hear all the hype coming from the Highway Patrol, they appear to be trying to destroy any possible credibility that they might have had.
Not to many are buying the HP's side of the story.

Okie
 
itsjustme
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:22 am

I've seen this video a few times now. First, I don't believe there was a failure to yield on the part of the EMS driver (which I assume was an EMT). He yielded to the officer when it was safe to do so. That doesn't mean the stop was illegal. The officer felt the ambulance failed to yield. That's probable cause for him to make the stop. As for the obscene gesture, that's the officer's word against the EMS driver's. However, it's not against the law to flip off a police officer. If it were, I'd spend most my day arresting people for it. Granted, it's not a wise thing to do but it's not illegal and that alone is not grounds to make a traffic stop. As for the actions of the paramedic: First, he was wrong to exit the ambulance for a couple of reasons. First, medically speaking, what he did constitutes patient abandonment and I would hope, after seeing the video his company and medical director will take issue with his actions. Had the patient's condition deteriorated or, worse case scenario, had the patient arrested, the medic would have had no way of knowing it. Putting his lack of medical ethics aside, the medic was wrong to confront the officer while the officer was in the course of his duty. Whether or not the medic agreed with the demeanor of the officer, he was obstructing a police officer which is a crime. Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the demeanor of the officer. He escalated the incident without cause. All I am saying is, from the video, the officer was effecting a traffic stop and had it been me, I, too would have ordered the medic to return to the vehicle. The fact the vehicle the officer had stopped was an ambulance is irrelevant. The fact there was a patient in the ambulance is also irrelevant. The officer wasn't disrupting patient care. In fact, it was the medic who put his patient in jeopardy the second he exited the ambulance. The medic stating he is "in charge of the unit" is irrelevant. He may be medically in charge but the officer was only concerned with the operator of the vehicle (until he was confronted by the medic), and rightly so. I have stopped passenger vehicles and had an irate passenger get out of the vehicle and dispute the validity of the stop (just as the medic did) and, in some instances I have had to arrest the aggressive passenger for obstruction of a police officer. Bottom line, the officer was acting within the course of his duty when he made the stop and the medic was wrong to exit the ambulance and confront the officer. Had it been me, the medic would have been ordered to return to the ambulance. If he failed to comply, he'd get a warning to return to the vehicle or face being arrested for obstructing a police officer. Further failure on his part to comply would result in his arrest. I would have allowed him to remain with his patient until a second ambulance could be called to the scene to take over patient care or, if the patient's condition was such that it would be in his or her best interest to continue on to the hospital instead of waiting for a second unit to arrive, I'd follow the EMS unit to the hospital and place the medic under arrest after patient care had been transferred to hospital staff.

[Edited 2009-06-16 19:29:27]
 
NIKV69
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:31 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Thread starter):
So who should yield?



Slow night?
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iflyatldl
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:37 am



Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
Lots of media going on about the incident in the area.

Problem 1
What was trooper doing on an emergency call with wife in car.
Problem 2
What happened to the call that the officer was suppose to be on that was an emergency.
Problem 3
Why did the officer involved call for back up of the ambulance stop and cancel the call that he was suppose to answer and another back up officer pulled off the original call.
Problem 4
When officer was informed of patient in ambulance he did not as suggested go to the hospital and resolve the issue there.
Problem 5
The paramedic that was attacked was in the back with the patient not the driver of the ambulance
Problem 6
His superiors put him on paid suspended leave but claimed the problem was with the paramedics and patient. The officer was not putting the patients life endanger.
Problem 7
It took threats of court order to get the police dash cam recording released "public document" that highway patrol claim are not public documents.

It has been pretty entertaining to hear all the hype coming from the Highway Patrol, they appear to be trying to destroy any possible credibility that they might have had.
Not to many are buying the HP's side of the story.

I just spoke with my friend (she just happened to call-planning a get-together) who oddly enough was not only with Cincinnati PD, she was also an EMT and Firefighter for CVG. So, I ssked her what her take onthis was and her reply: Bottom line:
Emegency Flashers-Lights trump.
BUT, what might have happened is the EMTs were so pre-occupied stablizing the patient, they could have forgotten to deploy the flashing lights until they were under way-hence the "surprised look" that was interpreded as an "obscine gesture". She told me "it happens alot".

Either way, she said the trooper had some issues...
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SOBHI51
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:12 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Slow night?

Is this the best contribution you have?
No my question is real. want to know if the ambulance did have to yield to the police car or not?
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Ken777
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:38 am

In TUL the police cars can and do go faster than ambulances - especially in an emergency.

The ambulance service has learned a long time ago that there is a need to keep a lower speed in order to control the ambulance. They are awkward and have a high center of gravity and can't safely go as fast as a police car.

That made me look at how fast the ambulance in the video reacted to the police car. While the video didn't show anything definitive it did appear that the ambulance was going too fast to move out of the police car's way - especially if there was a patient in the back.

As for the stop, with a patient in the ambulance there is, I believe, justification for the medic to step out and ensure the officer was aware of the patient. The officer did get into a discussion with the medic and was well aware that there was a patient heading to the hospital.

At that point there is no reason or excuse for not letting the ambulance first take care of the patient and then let the officer complete his efforts at the hospital.

The only thing that I saw that would have been the reason for things getting out of hand was that the officer was white and the driver of the ambulance, the medic, and apparently the patient, were all black. Unfortunately that is what stands out for me.
 
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:44 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
The ambulance service has learned a long time ago that there is a need to keep a lower speed in order to control the ambulance. T

Plus the fact there is a paramedic in the back usually working on the transport. And a patient that may be feeling every bump on the road in a very big way if you get my drift. Also it should be noted that there are some conditions that may cause additional trama to the patient by the sudden loud noise caused by the siren being turned on. Which is why sometimes you see busses running with lights only. It isn't just to keep the neighbors from complaining.
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iflyatldl
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:29 am

UM, the racial issue asside, they didn't have their Emergency Lights on and that was problamatic. It wasn't a race issue, just a pissed off OKST. It was wrong, but it's on video.
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NIKV69
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:46 am



Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 11):
Is this the best contribution you have?
No my question is real. want to know if the ambulance did have to yield to the police car or not?

I know but this topic is a little bit of a stretch. I like you better in the political threads!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
57AZ
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:56 am

Here in Arizona, the Arizona Revised Statutes stipulate that in the case of an emergency vehicle responding to an emergency, the emergency lights and siren must be activated. However, that does not excuse the operator of the emergency vehicle from observing the motor vehicle code with the exception of prima facie speed limits and traffic control devices. The operator is also responsible for operating their vehicle with due caution and can be held liable for any accident caused while responding to an emergency, regardless of whether the siren and lights are used if they do not use due caution.

In the case of this police officer, he not only appears to have exhibited poor judgment but may not have been operating his vehicle with due caution (as many state laws require). If an officer out here were to do something like that, they would be suspended pending further investigation and possible termination.
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HAWK21M
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:24 am

Def Saving a Life will get preference.
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sw733
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:51 pm



Quoting Iflyatldl (Reply 3):
Me personally, I yield to emergency vehicles even when their lights aren't operating as a courtesy

So you mean you're driving down a street and a cop car is coming the other direction at 30 without lights on and you pull to the side? Oh man, if I were the driver behind you, I would be giving you a whoopin'
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:59 pm

Hmm, what a video.

It seems that the ambulance driver pulled over when it was safe to do so.

The trooper was way out of order however. I think he needs a few lessons in how to control himself.
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AGC525
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:24 pm

In Pennsylvania in an Ambulance you must stop at every stop sign and red light.

Police do not have to yield.

EVOC (Emergency Vehicle Operators Course) is required of all fire, police, and EMS.
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fxramper
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:37 pm

A classmate of mine, back in the day at University of Texas, crashed into an ambulance that ran a red light. She ended up getting a massive fine. The radar in my car always goes off when emergency services vehicles are in the area...
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:10 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 8):
The fact the vehicle the officer had stopped was an ambulance is irrelevant. The fact there was a patient in the ambulance is also irrelevant. The officer wasn't disrupting patient care. In fact, it was the medic who put his patient in jeopardy the second he exited the ambulance.

"Was not disrupting care".... by arresting the guy? Intereseting is that the emergncy call the cop was suppposedly responding to all of a sudden did not matter as the prioroity became cop's ego.
Arresting a medic on duty... how much lower can he possibly stoop?
I mean the unbelievably arrogant behavior of the cop: the paramedic addresees the cop as "sir" while he for some reason feels the medic is his "buddy". Also, shouldn't it be a basic courtesy that he takes off his sunglasses when talking to someone?
Send the cop to some anger management school.
 
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falstaff
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:23 pm



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
The St. Louis Fire Department has a unique solution to this problem:

Notice how the guy halfway up the block on the upper left side of the video turns around and walks the other way after the crash. What a dead beat..... Typical of many people today, not wanting to get involved.
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DC10extender
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:19 pm



Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
Problem 1
What was trooper doing on an emergency call with wife in car.

His wife was riding along, it is perfectly fine to go on an emergency call with her in the car. This isn't a problem.

Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
Why did the officer involved call for back up of the ambulance stop and cancel the call that he was suppose to answer and another back up officer pulled off the original call.

It is possible he was cleared by other officers on the call.

Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
The paramedic that was attacked was in the back with the patient not the driver of the ambulance

He was "attacked" because he confronted the officer, resisted a lawful order to get back in the vehicle, and then resisted the officer when he performed a lawful arrest.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 2):

Why would the ambulance go first? The woman had a non life threatening condition and the ambulance was going routine. A police car going code 3 trumps for sure.

Quoting Jpax (Reply 4):

It is a permitted use of force. I have had to do it myself in affecting arrests. It can stop a fight real quick.
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racko
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:12 pm

Gotta love cops.

Are you really allowed to transport your wife (or, for that matter, anyone who isn't a policeman or an arrestee) while driving with your sirens on? Does insurance cover that?
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:42 pm



Quoting Okie (Reply 7):
What was trooper doing on an emergency call with wife in car.



Quoting Racko (Reply 25):
Are you really allowed to transport your wife (or, for that matter, anyone who isn't a policeman or an arrestee) while driving with your sirens on? Does insurance cover that?

Any civilian ride alongs (yes they happen a lot) must sign a waiver basically stating it can turn dangerous, you could get injured, you will not sue the dept. I have not ridden with any agency not having a waiver signed, and if you don't want to sign it, you don't ride.
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stratosphere
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:20 am



Quoting Racko (Reply 25):
Gotta love cops.

Are you really allowed to transport your wife (or, for that matter, anyone who isn't a policeman or an arrestee) while driving with your sirens on? Does insurance cover that?

I think he had his wife in the car and flipped the lights and siren on to show off and got pissed when this ambulence did not yield to his lights and embarrassed him in front of his old lady.
 
itsjustme
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:37 am



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):

"Was not disrupting care".... by arresting the guy?

Nice editing job of my post. You conveniently forgot to include:

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 8):
Further failure on his part to comply would result in his arrest. I would have allowed him to remain with his patient until a second ambulance could be called to the scene to take over patient care or, if the patient's condition was such that it would be in his or her best interest to continue on to the hospital instead of waiting for a second unit to arrive, I'd follow the EMS unit to the hospital and place the medic under arrest after patient care had been transferred to hospital staff.



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
Intereseting is that the emergncy call the cop was suppposedly responding to all of a sudden did not matter as the prioroity became cop's ego.

It's called contempt of badge and yes, unfortunately it happens.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
Arresting a medic on duty... how much lower can he possibly stoop?

How much lower? A loud mouth, aggressive civilian who has been told several times to return to his vehicle yet continues to obstruct a police officer while in the course of his duty. That's how much lower. The medic literally talked himself into being arrested. It happens quite often. Especially when I've made a traffic stop. I'll approach the vehicle fully intending to give the driver a break and just issue a verbal warning and the driver will talk him or her self into receiving a ticket.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
I mean the unbelievably arrogant behavior of the cop: the paramedic addresees the cop as "sir" while he for some reason feels the medic is his "buddy".

Yes, he addressed him as "sir" as he continued to fail to comply with the officer's lawful orders to return to the ambulance. And yet again, you conveniently forgot to include part of my post. Are you a FOX News Reporter by any chance?

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 8):
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the demeanor of the officer. He escalated the incident without cause.



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
Also, shouldn't it be a basic courtesy that he takes off his sunglasses when talking to someone?

OK, well now you're just being ridiculous. Oh, and can I make one suggestion? Use spell check - it's a handy little tool.

Quoting Racko (Reply 25):
Gotta love cops.

Thank you.
 
KSYR
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:58 am



Quoting Iflyatldl (Reply 10):
BUT, what might have happened is the EMTs were so pre-occupied stablizing the patient, they could have forgotten to deploy the flashing lights until they were under way-hence the "surprised look" that was interpreded as an "obscine gesture". She told me "it happens alot".

Um, that is VERY unsafe, and if it happens a lot, maybe those EMTs need better training. If you plan on going through red lights & stop signs, speeding and expecting people to yield, you better have your lights and siren on.

That said, in North Carolina the police car has the right of way. An ambulance or fire truck with its lights and sirens going is only "requesting" that people yield; if you are a jerk you can drive in front of an ambulance or fire truck as much as you want without pulling over. If there is a police car behind you with lights and/or siren going, however, you are required by law to pull over.
 
KSYR
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:01 am

Forgot to add that there are a lot of EMS calls that aren't in fact emergencies; people like to call ambulances for minor injuries and illness because they think that they will somehow be treated faster than if they went to the hospital on their own. In these situations, lights and sirens are rarely used. Seems to me like this was probably the case in the traffic stop cited in the original post.
 
BMI727
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:05 am



Quoting KSYR (Reply 30):
Forgot to add that there are a lot of EMS calls that aren't in fact emergencies;

True. But to be fair to it, there are a some non-emergency situations that require an ambulance for one reason or another.
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DC10extender
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:15 am



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 27):

Of course, because all of us cops are power hungry, self centered assholes.  Yeah sure

I can tell you, one of the most maddening things is people who don't yield when I'm going code 3 to a call.
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aero145
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:43 pm



Quoting KSYR (Reply 29):
That said, in North Carolina the police car has the right of way. An ambulance or fire truck with its lights and sirens going is only "requesting" that people yield; if you are a jerk you can drive in front of an ambulance or fire truck as much as you want without pulling over. If there is a police car behind you with lights and/or siren going, however, you are required by law to pull over.

Why do I find that dumb? I think it is more important getting to somewhere where there is someone injured or there is a fire, at least here in Germany where guns aren’t lawfully carried by other than the police and army.
 
okees
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:27 pm

Some of you mentioned that because the ambulance did not have its sirens on, the police car has the right of way. But would the ambulance need to have the sirens on even in an empty street? The video showed an empty street, and I would think that the sirens would be a nuisance more than anything else in this case.
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fr8mech
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:51 pm



Quoting Okees (Reply 34):
Some of you mentioned that because the ambulance did not have its sirens on, the police car has the right of way. But would the ambulance need to have the sirens on even in an empty street? The video showed an empty street, and I would think that the sirens would be a nuisance more than anything else in this case.

I didn't catch that he wasn't running code 3 when I first looked at it. If not running code 3, he should have yielded.

To answer your question: the law varies from state to state, but in Kentucky, the law does not recognize code 2 (lights only) unless, in the opinion of the paramedic or EMT, the siren could be detrimental to the health of the patient; in which case the lights should still be illuminated. An empty road is no excuse not to run lights and sirens.

In short, if the ambulance is on an emergency run, regardless of road conditions and congestion, it runs lights and sirens, unless patient care could be compromised, then just lights.

Again, state of Kentucky...other states and countries may have different rules.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
KSYR
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:01 pm



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 33):

Why do I find that dumb? I think it is more important getting to somewhere where there is someone injured or there is a fire, at least here in Germany where guns aren’t lawfully carried by other than the police and army.

Well, to be fair most people here believe that you are required by law to pull over for any emergency vehicle with lights and/or sirens on, so they do it anyways. Also, you would have to be a complete asshole to see an ambulance behind you with lights and sirens going and decide not to pull over.

The law differs for police vehicles because more often than not, when they are behind you with lights and sirens on they are trying to pull you over!
 
BMI727
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:10 pm



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 27):
I think he had his wife in the car and flipped the lights and siren on to show off and got pissed when this ambulence did not yield to his lights and embarrassed him in front of his old lady.



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 32):
Of course, because all of us cops are power hungry, self centered assholes.

I have little doubt that some cops use the lights and sirens to get somewhere a bit faster. But personally, considering what they do every day, I am willing to call it a perk and look the other way.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
b727
Posts: 464
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:12 pm

I had this same thing happen to me a few years back. I was driving for a local volunteer ambulance corp. When we were enroute to the hospital about 3 in the morning on a 3 lane wide highway, I was traveling about 75mph, in a 55mph zone on a dry summer evening. We were responding with a full arrest in the back of the ambulance, A local officer pulled up behind as we were enroute, the dispatched asked that we pull over the officer behind us wanted to issue me a speeding ticket. I kindly picked up the radio and advised the dispatcher that he could meet us at the hospital, that we were not going to stop. Upon arrival he met us at the ER, and issued me a ticket for speeding and failure to stop for a emergency vehicle. The patient made a full recovery and alll tickets were dropped at the courthouse. The cop was placed on suspension.

B727
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Type-Rated
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:17 pm



Quoting KSYR (Reply 36):
Also, you would have to be a complete asshole to see an ambulance behind you with lights and sirens going and decide not to pull over.

Happens here in Houston all the time. People just keep driving along like nothing is happening even though they have an ambulance on their tail with flashing lights and siren blaring. Sometimes I think when they were handing out common sense somehow they missed Houston.

I was shocked when I first saw this behavior. I learned to drive in the Chicago area, and when you saw flashing lights, you pulled over and came to a stop until the police car or ambulance passed you by. If you were on the expressway, you'd pull over the the right lane and reduce speed slightly.
The city of Houston has recently enacted laws requiring people to pull over to the farthest right lane and reduce speed by 20mph. Still, some people do this and others don't.

Personally, whenever I see ANYTHING with flashing lights I pull over the the right and reduce speed.
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aero145
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:19 pm



Quoting KSYR (Reply 36):
Well, to be fair most people here believe that you are required by law to pull over for any emergency vehicle with lights and/or sirens on, so they do it anyways. Also, you would have to be a complete asshole to see an ambulance behind you with lights and sirens going and decide not to pull over.

I feel that you have misunderstood me. I found it dumb that a police car on a run is more important than an ambulance/fire brigade (heavy and difficult-to-manœvre-vehicle).
 
stratosphere
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:12 pm



Quoting DC10extender (Reply 32):
Of course, because all of us cops are power hungry, self centered assholes.

Not all of you...But some of you definately ARE. Just like any other profession.
 
57AZ
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:33 am

Arizona doesn't recognize Code 2 (except for funeral escort vehicles). Any emergency response for police, fire or EMS is Code 3. Also, while the Arizona Revised Statutes do require motor vehicles to pull over and stop when approached by an authorized emergency vehicle with lights and siren on, the operator of the emergency vehicle is not exempt from any portion of the motor vehicle code other than the prima facie speed limit. Here, in most urban areas the fire and EMS services have signal preemption but at non preempted intersections, they slow down and stop as necessary and required by law. Police vehicles are not outfitted with preemption and slow or stop at each intersection when running against a red light or stop sign. The fact that the emergency lights are displayed and the siren is on does not protect the emergency vehicle operator from liability for negligent operation of the vehicle.

Most interesting sight I've ever seen was a Northwest Fire District engine responding to a call in Marana. It was heading west on Ina Road and encountered a line of traffic stopped for a train. Engineer driving the engine went around the median into the eastbound lanes-no traffic because of the train-and stopped to wait for it to pass. Once it passed, they weaved around the gates (single track) and returned to the proper travel lanes.
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fr8mech
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:00 pm



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 42):
Most interesting sight I've ever seen was a Northwest Fire District engine responding to a call in Marana. It was heading west on Ina Road and encountered a line of traffic stopped for a train. Engineer driving the engine went around the median into the eastbound lanes-no traffic because of the train-and stopped to wait for it to pass. Once it passed, they weaved around the gates (single track) and returned to the proper travel lanes.

Standard practice here. There were 3 railroad crossings in my district.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
itsjustme
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:52 pm



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 40):
I feel that you have misunderstood me. I found it dumb that a police car on a run is more important than an ambulance/fire brigade (heavy and difficult-to-manœvre-vehicle).

Are you gauging the importance of a run on the weight of the vehicle responding? That's what it sounds like. If so, you're right but I wouldn't use the word "important". I understand what you are trying to say, I think. I use this scenario for new police recruits when I teach at the academy to try and get them to use common sense thinking rather than always letter of the law thinking: "You are dispatched to a 4-Way intersection where the traffic signals are out and it's your job to direct traffic. Suddenly, you hear sirens and you see a Fire Truck bearing down on you from one direction, an ambulance from another direction and a police car from yet a 3rd direction. All are running with lights and sirens and approaching at a high rate of speed. Being that you are controlling the traffic flow, who do you give the right-of-way to and why?" The answers are usually varied between the ambulance and the patrol car and rarely does anyone give the fire truck preference. The reasons given by the recruits typically are that the ambulance and or patrol car are probably responding to an emergency involving a person where as the fire truck is probably responding to an emergency involving property. However, using common sense, the correct answer is to give the fire truck the right of way being that the chances of getting it stopped in a safe manner are less than that of the ambulance or the patrol car.
 
Tiger119
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:30 am

Having worked in both of those fields in public safety, a police car and an ambulance both running emergency lights and sirens, going different directions I would have to say the ambulance goes first. If they are going on the same sceneand both crews know that it would depend on the safeness of the scene. If it is a person shot with the suspect still on the scene, I would suggest the ambulance crew gesture to the officers to proceed first and have the ambulance crew hang back until law enforcement secures the scene (but that's just my opinion).

As far as the roadside confrontation, it was embarrassing to watch. While still a police officer, I disagreed with a decision a paramedic made on the scene of a roadside incident and we were in a public street that is heavily traveled. I held my tongue and took my beef to my supervisor and let them (people making more money than me) handle the problem (turned out I was right and the paramedic was wrong). I did not want to make a scene especially in public. I hate to cross the blue linebut this trooper lost complete control and it would have to be a black eye to his agency.
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fr8mech
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:02 pm



Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 45):
I would suggest the ambulance crew gesture to the officers to proceed first and have the ambulance crew hang back until law enforcement secures the scene (but that's just my opinion).

In this case, it is procedure that the fire/EMS crews stage until the scene is declared secured bby the police.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
aero145
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RE: WHO Has Right Of WAY Ambulance Or Police?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:21 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 44):
Are you gauging the importance of a run on the weight of the vehicle responding? That's what it sounds like. If so, you're right but I wouldn't use the word "important". I understand what you are trying to say, I think. I use this scenario for new police recruits when I teach at the academy to try and get them to use common sense thinking rather than always letter of the law thinking: "You are dispatched to a 4-Way intersection where the traffic signals are out and it's your job to direct traffic. Suddenly, you hear sirens and you see a Fire Truck bearing down on you from one direction, an ambulance from another direction and a police car from yet a 3rd direction. All are running with lights and sirens and approaching at a high rate of speed. Being that you are controlling the traffic flow, who do you give the right-of-way to and why?" The answers are usually varied between the ambulance and the patrol car and rarely does anyone give the fire truck preference. The reasons given by the recruits typically are that the ambulance and or patrol car are probably responding to an emergency involving a person where as the fire truck is probably responding to an emergency involving property. However, using common sense, the correct answer is to give the fire truck the right of way being that the chances of getting it stopped in a safe manner are less than that of the ambulance or the patrol car.

Yes. And I would use the word important.

If I would be in the position of the directing traffic-officer, and I would have time to clear the way for the fire brigade, I would of course let it go first. But if there would be bottlenecks all around, I would let the police go first.

What I mean; safety comes first, importance (it seems the police is always the most important, no offense) second. You may disagree, but that’s my opinion.  Smile

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