7324ever
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Lets Improve A Country

Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:16 pm

Pick any country and state what you would do to improve it, be it Communism in Canada or Feudalism in Brazil and everything in between.

Or just fix a government in a country like putting Universal health care in Russia just have fun!
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:08 am

I really wish we could focus on Africa better. No I couldn't do a better job than the UN but that doesn't mean they can't do much, much better. So my answer-any country in Africa, really get involved and spend funds more efficiently
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
BMI727
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:15 am



Quoting 7324ever (Thread starter):
Pick any country and state what you would do to improve it,

Although I'm sure that this thread is well intentioned, I hope you realize that it will most likely degrade into a political pissing match rather quickly. I give it twenty posts. Sadly, I think that this may say quite a bit.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:47 am

Restrict California to one ballot initiative per year, and make the legislature actually do their job.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:54 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 3):
Restrict California to one ballot initiative per year

Heck, make California it's own country already dammit!  duck 


I've lived in two countries for a significant amount of time (Mexico and USA) and it saddens me to say that I find so many things to list that are wrong with my birthcountry (I'm made in the USA, yay I guess  Yeah sure ) that it makes the "underdeveloped, violent, famine stricken and dangerous 3rd world country" that Mexico supposedly is (as seen by all the retards that haven't even set foot on the country and are so quick to judge it going off of stereotypes and overblown media reports) seem like Eden in comparison.  Yeah sure

Being an expatriate really, REALLY, gives you a different perspective on many things.

And yes I see this thread being deleted in oh, a week or two. But I hope that's not the case as this could be a very intellectual and interesting thread.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:33 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 3):
Restrict California to one ballot initiative per year, and make the legislature actually do their job.

Perhaps make the first initiative a vote on whether to stay part of the U.S. or become the northern most state of Mexico - oh wait, it already is  duck 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
Superfly
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:51 am

Eliminate the electoral college here in the United States.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 3):
Restrict California to one ballot initiative per year, and make the legislature actually do their job.

I say eliminate the entire ballot initiative system all together.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 5):
Perhaps make the first initiative a vote on whether to stay part of the U.S. or become the northern most state of Mexico - oh wait, it already is duck

I am all in favor of that so then I can legally get freon for the air conditioning in my old car.  Cool
Bring back the Concorde
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:34 am

My country of choice is Myanmar.

I want to take down the Biurmese Junta and all their cronies
and jail them all

this horrible dictatorial regime

after which I want to hold true free democratic elections
after a true free democratic campaign
for the people of Myanmar to decide on their future

Hopefully with Mrs Aung San Suu Kyi ending up as the country's new leader.

http://imaginepeace.com/news/wp-cont...loads/2009/05/aung_san_suu_kyi.jpg

This is my wish to improve a country!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Superfly
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:52 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
My country of choice is Myanmar.

I want to take down the Biurmese Junta and all their cronies
and jail them all

 checkmark 
What a shame that is taking place in what could be a marvelous country.



For USA, Canada, all EU nations:
Get rid of all aircraft noise restriction laws!
Bring back the Concorde
 
aircatalonia
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:42 am

Ok I'll fix Spain:

1. The monarchy goes out. It's totally antidemocratic, a thing of the past brought back by Franco and a waste of money.

2. German economic model: No regional transfer of money greater than 3% of the GDP. Stop stealing +20% of our taxes in Catalonia, Balears, Basque country etc.

3. Swiss linguistic model: All 4 languages are equal in rights. And the so-called "spanish" is just one of them.

4. Stop wasting EU funds. Pouring millions into useless highways in the middle of the desert is not going to fix anything. And the Germans are going to be pissed some day.

5. Start controlling immigration. When travelling in the public transport you cannot tell anymore if you are in Spain, some south american republic or Morocco. Which would be ok for me as long as public services could cope with it. Public health, for instance, is completely overwhelmed.

6. I could go on forever
 
OffshoreAir
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:08 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Eliminate the electoral college here in the United States.

Go read Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein and then get back to me on what you think about social responsiblity and the lack of it in the United States in terms of political motivation by the public and the rights and responsibilies of citizens of a state (country)  Smile


2000 words, double spaced, typed, 12 point New Time Roman font  Wink
OffshoreAir
 
Superfly
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:36 pm



Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 10):
Go read Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein and then get back to me on what you think about social responsiblity and the lack of it in the United States in terms of political motivation by the public and the rights and responsibilies of citizens of a state (country)

I read it back in 2001 after the miscarriage of justice by the US Supreme Court choosing Dubya as the President.
Even though I disagree with Al Gore 100% on his environmental nonsense, I still feel as though he was robbed of an election and was the true winner, even in Florida.
Bring back the Concorde
 
OffshoreAir
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:12 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
I read it back in 200

He brings up some very interesting points on the subject of Western Democracies.

/end threadjack
OffshoreAir
 
Elite
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:22 pm

How to improve Hong Kong:

- Democratically elected leader, not the current Chief Executive that is "elected" by a 800 member body.

- Have stricter immigration policies. Hospitals are overwhelmed by the number of immigrants coming to give birth, and Hong Kong mothers are finding no bed space.

- Have stricter border control. Cross border crime between Hong Kong and China / Macao is a problem and it needs to stop.

- Don't make our central banker the highest paid central banker in the world!
 
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yowza
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:25 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
My country of choice is Myanmar.

Interesting you used the name introduced by the junta, despite your dislike for it.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
I want to take down the Biurmese Junta and all their cronies
and jail them all

Well that likely won't happen as the transitions unfold.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
this horrible dictatorial regime

Agreed.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
after which I want to hold true free democratic elections
after a true free democratic campaign
for the people of Myanmar to decide on their future

This is coming. Mid next year would you believe.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
Hopefully with Mrs Aung San Suu Kyi ending up as the country's new leader.

This is not going to happen. The legislation being drafted up for the transition of power forbids that anyone married to a foreign national be a head of state. So no to Suu Kyi. I'm OK with this. She's a divisive figure and getting old. Burma needs a young fresh face that unifies and invigorates. A personality that will be a presence for many years to comes.

YOWza
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:50 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 14):
Interesting you used the name introduced by the junta, despite your dislike for it.

Used it only because it's the official name for the country that was named Burma.

Suu Kyi has the experience.
This thing that she can't be chosen because she was married to a foreigner is discriminatory and completely stupid, only an excuse to keep her out.

Free Myanmar/Burma!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:19 pm

I'll focus on transportation since I know nothing about most other issues in the U.S.

-Focus on studying maglev transportation to connect all the major cities in the U.S. It would take many years before maglev connects all the major cities in the U.S. but it would help the environment. However airlines would probably not like this, especially WN, FL, and YX.

-Study alternative fuels for planes and cars, fuels that if extracted won't harm the environment. If Boeing can make an aircraft that runs completely on an alternative fuel then we'll give them a big grant. If the automakers focus more on hybrids and vehicles running on alternative fuels, we'll bail them out of huge debts.

-Stop throwing money away building or expanding highways/freeways. It never helps in Minneapolis most of the time. Money will be spent to fix highways/freeways.
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:55 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Eliminate the electoral college here in the United States.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):

I say eliminate the entire ballot initiative system all together.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):

I read it back in 2001 after the miscarriage of justice by the US Supreme Court choosing Dubya as the President.
Even though I disagree with Al Gore 100% on his environmental nonsense, I still feel as though he was robbed of an election and was the true winner, even in Florida.

 checkmark  Thank you! You should win an election based on the popular vote not what a bunch of cranky pissy politically stubborn old people think is "best for the country"

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 15):

Used it only because it's the official name for the country that was named Burma.

Suu Kyi has the experience.
This thing that she can't be chosen because she was married to a foreigner is discriminatory and completely stupid, only an excuse to keep her out.

Free Myanmar/Burma!

I would rather have an experienced older person who knows what there doing and can help the country than a young "fresh face" because it looks better from a popularity stand point. You don't see people wanting the queen of England off the thrown because she is too wrinkly
 duck 

Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 16):
I'll focus on transportation since I know nothing about most other issues in the U.S.

-Focus on studying maglev transportation to connect all the major cities in the U.S. It would take many years before maglev connects all the major cities in the U.S. but it would help the environment. However airlines would probably not like this, especially WN, FL, and YX.

-Study alternative fuels for planes and cars, fuels that if extracted won't harm the environment. If Boeing can make an aircraft that runs completely on an alternative fuel then we'll give them a big grant. If the automakers focus more on hybrids and vehicles running on alternative fuels, we'll bail them out of huge debts.

-Stop throwing money away building or expanding highways/freeways. It never helps in Minneapolis most of the time. Money will be spent to fix highways/freeways.

Very true but EXTREAMLY costly even one from LAX to LAS would cost billons but 90% of the cost is "Inviormental reasearch and impact"  yuck 

Quoting AirCatalonia (Reply 9):
Ok I'll fix Spain:

 checkmark 

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):

Although I'm sure that this thread is well intentioned, I hope you realize that it will most likely degrade into a political pissing match rather quickly. I give it twenty posts. Sadly, I think that this may say quite a bit.

Sorry too say it but it was bound to happen.....
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
LH459
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:20 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
I say eliminate the entire ballot initiative system all together.

Hear Hear!!! The ballot initiative system has done much more harm than good in California.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
t1210s
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:34 pm

In the UK we could have a elected Prime Minister and cabinet that would be an improvement over the dictatorship we have now
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yowza
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:07 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 15):
Used it only because it's the official name for the country that was named Burma.

Fair enough, even if it does give the junta legitimacy. Numerous countries including Canada do not recognize the "new" name.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 15):
Suu Kyi has the experience.

Umm that would be news to me. Her biggest political experience involves being under house arrest. Outside of that... not much.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 17):
I would rather have an experienced older person who knows what there doing and can help the country than a young "fresh face" because it looks better from a popularity stand point. You don't see people wanting the queen of England off the thrown because she is too wrinkly

The point I was trying to make was there is no reason to elect somebody with limited mileage in the tank. That would require two successful elections in a short time rather than one. On will be a big enough task. As I've said she is more of a symbol than a real politician anyway so a younger face would be more desirable.

YOWza
 
AM744
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:33 pm

Fixing Mexico:
- Increase transparency on public spending. i.e. Eliminate discretionary trusts (fideicomisos) so often used to spend under the radar.
- Increase tax payers base. Underground economy (estimated at 50% GDP in some areas!) as well as huge corporations that pay virtually no taxes.
- Overhaul the justice system. Be done with the nefarious "Ministerio Público" figure and bring back oral trials (this is currently being done).
- Cleanse the Mexican Customs and Migration. (Anything and anybody can get in here)
- Make illegality expensive: i.e. actually prosecute criminals (burglars, corporate, government), street vendors, and all the people that profit in this country by NOT abiding by the law. It's way cheaper not to comply.
- Monetize the Libertad Silver ounce, see http://www.plata.com.mx for pros and cons.
- Make it possible to communicate with the government through regular mail (which has improved a lot recently, I must say). E.g. Passports, wedding licences, and anything else that requires an actual piece of paper.

- Stupid laws that need to go:
Federal: Cell phone registration and finger printing! (Who the heck will guard that data? The same guys that sold the whole voting lists to a US company? (45+ million citizens' data)).
Federal: Taxes that penalize owning a new car and make it cheap owning an old one. (Is the government serious about air pollution? Current taxes scream it's not).
Mexico City: Car pollution verifications that depend upon car age. (The pollution levels can be objetively measured whether the car is old or new, right? Disclaimer: I own a new car, so presumably I could care less).
Mexico City: Compulsory Lo Jack. Are they out of their mind? Am I supposed to pay their inefficiencies from my pocket? NOT.

[Edited 2009-06-23 12:44:28]
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:33 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 20):
The point I was trying to make was there is no reason to elect somebody with limited mileage in the tank. That would require two successful elections in a short time rather than one. On will be a big enough task. As I've said she is more of a symbol than a real politician anyway so a younger face would be more desirable.

And a young fresh face has automatic political experience? How is there limited mileage in a gas tank, she has more years and experience that any girl with big boobs in her 30s that can just be a clone of the government now. *just an example there are no 30 year old with big boobs that I know of that are running for the power* Her family has political backgrounds and she has the experience the country needs.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 20):

Umm that would be news to me. Her biggest political experience involves being under house arrest. Outside of that... not much.

Wtf does house arrest have to do with anything! Martha Stuart had house arrest and no one cares. House arrest is not a reason to not elect somebody especially if its just because the government wants her there.
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:52 pm



Quoting AM744 (Reply 21):
Federal: Taxes that penalize owning a new car and make it cheap owning an old one. (Is the government serious about air pollution? Current taxes scream it's not).
Mexico City: Car pollution verifications that depend upon car age. (The pollution levels can be objetively measured whether the car is old or new, right? Disclaimer: I own a new car, so presumably I could care less).
Mexico City: Compulsory Lo Jack. Are they out of their mind? Am I supposed to pay their inefficiencies from my pocket? NOT.

Why does the Mexican government want people to own older cars? Wouldn't buying new boost up the economy and make it worth it by lowering fees?
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
AM744
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:58 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 23):
Why does the Mexican government want people to own older cars? Wouldn't buying new boost up the economy and make it worth it by lowering fees?

Indeed. However, the rather anachronistic idea that a car is a luxury item rather than a tool persists. Therefore, they figure that if you can afford a new one you can be juiced dry. That has to change.
 
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yowza
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:59 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 22):
And a young fresh face has automatic political experience?

I said younger, I'm not saying put a kid in office, rather somebody who can effectively conduct affairs for a decent number of years.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 22):
How is there limited mileage in a gas tank, she has more years and experience

What experience would that be please enlighten me.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 22):
Her family has political backgrounds and she has the experience the country needs.

People are their parent's children, they are not their parents. By your logic start athlete's kids would be sure picks to make it big. Yes there is lineage but not enough experience to be anything more than a catalyst.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 22):
Wtf does house arrest have to do with anything! Martha Stuart had house arrest and no one cares. House arrest is not a reason to not elect somebody especially if its just because the government wants her there.

My point is if you take away her years under house arrest she has no political achievements.

YOWza
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:39 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 25):
I said younger, I'm not saying put a kid in office, rather somebody who can effectively conduct affairs for a decent number of years.

What would that accomplish yet again a young person is not better for a government. Witch brings us back to your logic, at your logic the Queen of England should be out of power because she is old and that a young person automatically has better experience.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 25):
What experience would that be please enlighten me.

Not experience per say but she has lots of years studying the field of witch to run it effectively. She has attended protests and knows what she has saying. She has won many awards for the work she has done.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 25):

People are their parent's children, they are not their parents. By your logic start athlete's kids would be sure picks to make it big. Yes there is lineage but not enough experience to be anything more than a catalyst.

Exactly people ARE there parents children witch means they can argue on behalf of them knowing what they wanted being raised by them. Yes it gives that kid the genetics to accell over others. Most kids who have parents in political power go into the field them selves, like some of the presidents of the US have been father-son. People pay more for animals if the animal has a background that was raised for show dogs. Same with race horses thorough bread horse semen to breed more horses for racing its genetic.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 25):
My point is if you take away her years under house arrest she has no political achievements.

Yet again you don't have to work in politics to have experience you can know what your doing to have knowledge in the field.
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:50 pm



Quoting AM744 (Reply 24):

Indeed. However, the rather anachronistic idea that a car is a luxury item rather than a tool persists. Therefore, they figure that if you can afford a new one you can be juiced dry. That has to change.

That is a really stupid law almost communist in which if your can afforn new you get wrung out to dry and put down for it but if you buy old you get praised for it!

Is there anything the government will ever do to take care of this?
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:05 pm



Quoting AirCatalonia (Reply 9):

1. The monarchy goes out. It's totally antidemocratic, a thing of the past brought back by Franco and a waste of money.

Funny, a Catalan friend of mine is saying the same thing!

I don't know why you call the monarchy "antidemocratic". Is it the same regime as Franco's? I don't think so.

You elect your governement with Universal Suffrage. That's a good aspect of democracy  Wink

(and no need to list me the powers of the Spanish king, I know them  Smile )
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
PPVRA
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:19 pm

Judicial reform is probably the most important thing for Brazil right now. All else can be worked out later. It's just too big a mess.

I'd also throw in dumping monopoly legal tender laws and the central banking system. Go the way of Panama. Has served them well over the past century, while our system certainly hasn't.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
steeler83
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:05 pm

Let's see, the USA...

Too much broken to address with one post.

1) I say break up the ACLU and accuse them for treason against the United States.

2) Give tax credits to companies that are US-based and create US jobs -- hike up taxes for companies that pay Pablo and Habib the dirt cheap wages to do the same job that an American worker would do.

3) If you don't pay taxes to this country, then get the hell out! You are NOT entitled to free healthcare or any type of benefits unless you LEGALLY LIVE AND WORK HERE! THAT is a big reason why our healthcare is messed up!

4) Our government is way too big to begin with! They are overpaid and don't do squat but pick our pockets 80% of the time, and spend our money on a bunch of useless junk (read up on hte D.O.E. back during the Carter Administration for an example)!

Oh, and how about some of those credit card companies -- jacking up APRs and the like without notice, causing people's credit ratings to tank. If it were up to me, such companies would be shut down. So there would be a huge void to be filled, but that happens. In a supposed capitalist environment, people come along and create new companies that eventually will grow and fill in that given void...

Same goes with the banks and any other large corporation with a history of questionable practices... If the government should intervene, then it needs to be shut down. I am basing my opinion on all that I have read up with the whole GM fiasco.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:27 pm



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
1) I say break up the ACLU and accuse them for treason against the United States.

That and all lawyers who think that they can make 100000000000 dollars on a frivolous law suite.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):

2) Give tax credits to companies that are US-based and create US jobs -- hike up taxes for companies that pay Pablo and Habib the dirt cheap wages to do the same job that an American worker would do.

That way would create more jobs and boost the economy and help those other countries people learn other things that "Thank you for calling Apple tech support how may I be helping you."

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
Oh, and how about some of those credit card companies -- jacking up APRs and the like without notice, causing people's credit ratings to tank. If it were up to me, such companies would be shut down. So there would be a huge void to be filled, but that happens. In a supposed capitalist environment, people come along and create new companies that eventually will grow and fill in that given void...

Same goes with the banks and any other large corporation with a history of questionable practices... If the government should intervene, then it needs to be shut down. I am basing my opinion on all that I have read up with the whole GM fiasco.

Last time a government did that was the USSR during the red and white revolution. That exact scenario played out in animal farm where the people took out the government only to create a new one that was worse than the old if in the US that even possible.
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
steeler83
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:55 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 31):
That and all lawyers who think that they can make 100000000000 dollars on a frivolous law suite.

Oh yeah, I forgot about them. Don't even get me started...

Well like I said, the USA is screwed up. It's no longer the land of freedom and opportunity like many of us "naive" folks think...

With the Obama adminstration in power now, I think that socialism is on the rise and capitalism on the way out...

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 31):
That way would create more jobs and boost the economy and help those other countries people learn other things that "Thank you for calling Apple tech support how may I be helping you."

That's what I'm thinking. Take the extra tax dollars, make/develop/research improvements on existing products or make new ones, and hire more people as additional positions become necessary...

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 31):
Last time a government did that was the USSR during the red and white revolution. That exact scenario played out in animal farm where the people took out the government only to create a new one that was worse than the old if in the US that even possible.

Well I'm not talking about a government overthrow. I'm talking about big companies -- well look at the really big ones that have repeatedly asked the government to bail them out. You know what some of them did? Gave themselves and other execs raises - huge raises. Granted, that's not everyone, but some of them did that...

Companies that are run by CEOs who have the attitude:
"Oh, my company lost $60 million last year and has been losing money for the last 5 years straight. I guess I need to lay off 2,000 people and close plants. Hey, by doing that, I get my $40 million bonus and a huge raise!"

Um, if I were a highly paid CEO of a major company that was hemoraging money like ther was no tomorrow, I'd cut my wage down to maybe $60,000 a year or so (providing I make well into the 6 figures or even higher). If I had that kind of money to begin with, I would have done rather smart things with it - tried to make smart investments for long term (that do NOT involve a 30-room mansion in South Carolina for a summer home!)

The main argument against a corporate shut down, tho, is that when big companies are shut down, sure that's horrible for the near term, but after a while as hopefully other healthier companies expand and grow, that given void can be filled. That is what capitalism is all about.
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7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:14 pm



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 32):

Oh yeah, I forgot about them. Don't even get me started...

Let me help. Lawyers should not make more money from a settlement that the plaintiff and the plaintiff shouldn't be suing a place because they were too stupid to not know how to read the directions or not knowing the floor was wet when the wet floor sign is right f***ing there.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 32):
With the Obama administration in power now, I think that socialism is on the rise and capitalism on the way out...

Amen. He should not be giving drivers licenses to people who hop the border it shouldn't be a game of red rover were if you make it through you get to stay you should go though the right process of filling out the papers and naturalize the right way.

Tax dollars should not be spread among all, you should keep what you make and the government should take what they need.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 32):
Well I'm not talking about a government overthrow. I'm talking about big companies -- well look at the really big ones that have repeatedly asked the government to bail them out. You know what some of them did? Gave themselves and other execs raises - huge raises. Granted, that's not everyone, but some of them did that...

Companies that are run by CEOs who have the attitude:
"Oh, my company lost $60 million last year and has been losing money for the last 5 years straight. I guess I need to lay off 2,000 people and close plants. Hey, by doing that, I get my $40 million bonus and a huge raise!"

Um, if I were a highly paid CEO of a major company that was hemorrhaging money like ther was no tomorrow, I'd cut my wage down to maybe $60,000 a year or so (providing I make well into the 6 figures or even higher). If I had that kind of money to begin with, I would have done rather smart things with it - tried to make smart investments for long term (that do NOT involve a 30-room mansion in South Carolina for a summer home!)

The main argument against a corporate shut down, tho, is that when big companies are shut down, sure that's horrible for the near term, but after a while as hopefully other healthier companies expand and grow, that given void can be filled. That is what capitalism is all about.

I know what you mean. The government should come in and fix these companies and downsize them to a point were they are stable. And CEOs should not make 20,000 a week but should take what they deserve and adjust what you make according to what the companies financial state is.

But you for got about the part were right as the company is about to tip over they have to run away to a spa and buy the top packages and say its to "help deal with the stress of the company"
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:25 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 7):
My country of choice is Myanmar.

I want to take down the Biurmese Junta and all their cronies
and jail them all

this horrible dictatorial regime

after which I want to hold true free democratic elections
after a true free democratic campaign
for the people of Myanmar to decide on their future

Completely agree - very good choice.  checkmark 

Although it would be a monumental task, I'd suggest North Korea.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:30 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 34):
I'd suggest North Korea.

A monumental task indeed but pays off in the end
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
steeler83
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:42 am



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 33):
Lawyers should not make more money from a settlement that the plaintiff and the plaintiff shouldn't be suing a place because they were too stupid to not know how to read the directions or not knowing the floor was wet when the wet floor sign is right f***ing there.

And how about plaintiffs who sustain an injury while committing an act of trespassing towards a fellow citizen?

My future in-law owns a truck repair place and used to have a german shepperd to guard the place in case of break-ins (and believe me! That did happen where a group of thugs broke in, destroyed the security cameras and several thousands worth of other equipment) He had to get rid of the dog because of the shark lawyers and the complete and utter STUPIDITY of CRIMINALS!!

There should be an amendment to the constitution that protects property owners from s[deleted]t like this. If you were injured while in the act of trespassing against a person or his/her property, you are entitled to NOTHING!! That person against whom you trespass (vandalize, injur, etc) owes you NOTHING!!! He/she exercised his/her constitutional rights to protect his/herself and any property from damage or destruction...

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 33):
I know what you mean. The government should come in and fix these companies and downsize them to a point were they are stable. And CEOs should not make 20,000 a week but should take what they deserve and adjust what you make according to what the companies financial state is.

But you for got about the part were right as the company is about to tip over they have to run away to a spa and buy the top packages and say its to "help deal with the stress of the company"

I was headed there, but you beat me to it...

So they're off pampering themselves at taxpayer expense while the poor employees (no sarcasm) are at the very least lying in the corner of their bedrooms curled up in the fetal position sucking their thumbs over what is about to happen...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 am



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 36):

And how about plaintiffs who sustain an injury while committing an act of trespassing towards a fellow citizen?

My future in-law owns a truck repair place and used to have a german shepperd to guard the place in case of break-ins (and believe me! That did happen where a group of thugs broke in, destroyed the security cameras and several thousands worth of other equipment) He had to get rid of the dog because of the shark lawyers and the complete and utter STUPIDITY of CRIMINALS!!

There should be an amendment to the constitution that protects property owners from s[deleted]t like this. If you were injured while in the act of trespassing against a person or his/her property, you are entitled to NOTHING!! That person against whom you trespass (vandalize, injure, etc) owes you NOTHING!!! He/she exercised his/her constitutional rights to protect his/herself and any property from damage or destruction...

Sounds like the case in the 80s were the man broke into someones house and broke his leg going in and sued the owner of the house for liability for 500,000 dollars...

I also remember the case were in Texas a person broke into a house while the family were on vacation and the neighbors saw the people breaking in. They went and got their shotgun and shot the thieves. The man who shot the thieves got a medal and was praised for his heroism the same scenario happened in Minnesota the person who shot the gun got charged with 2nd degree murder and was givin 25 to life with no possibility of parole...

When you lived with f****ed up laws no one wins you should be able to protect your property under any means necessary and should start reversing all the gun laws let people own the guns its not like everybody is going to be running around killing anyone who walks by...

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 36):
So they're off pampering themselves at taxpayer expense while the poor employees (no sarcasm) are at the very least lying in the corner of their bedrooms curled up in the fetal position sucking their thumbs over what is about to happen...

Bankruptcy and no remorse from the government while the CEOs live like gods and the factory worker get orally screwed from behind by the company and government. Take control and downsize its not going to hurt anyone only help.

The US would be a much better place with federal control of companies when needed.
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
OffshoreAir
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:53 am



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 26):
Yet again you don't have to work in politics to have experience you can know what your doing to have knowledge in the field.

That is like saying you can fly a 747 from LAX-FRA because you've "studied" and have the "knowledge" to fly the plane, but have never been at the controls of any aircraft.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
hike up taxes for companies that pay Pablo and Habib the dirt cheap wages to do the same job that an American worker would do

I think the nature of this statement entirely ruins your credibility on the matter. Without the racial attacks, lets look at this subject from both sides.
Company Owner: If you can potentially save hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions, but outsourcing your entire baseline customer service department to another country, thus saving a company you have a person stake in, would you do it? Maybe the company is incorporated or public, and you have no risk of your own person stake or assets - instead, at President or CEO, one of your main duties is to increase profitability and increase shareholder dividends. Do you pay the extra $XXmillion a year, or do you save that money to re-invest in other, more profitable divisions or aspects of the company? How do you explain to the Board of Trustee's and the shareholders that you've decided to spend the extra $XXmillion on keeping that operation domestic? I guarantee that 99% of Boards and 99% of the shareholders will be against your stand - as selfless as it is.
United States Economy: Yes, it hurts the United States economy. It takes jobs away from Americans. But the money saved on the outsourced jobs eventually makes its way back into the economy.

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 33):
I know what you mean. The government should come in and fix these companies and downsize them to a point were they are stable. And CEOs should not make 20,000 a week but should take what they deserve and adjust what you make according to what the companies financial state is

You guys are contradicting each other here. Steeler83 said the Government needs to stop interfering, but here you say the government should intervene and "fix" these companies. So which is it?
OffshoreAir
 
AM744
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:06 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 27):
That is a really stupid law almost communist in which if your can afforn new you get wrung out to dry and put down for it but if you buy old you get praised for it!

Is there anything the government will ever do to take care of this?

I'm sure at some point this will be addressed in the electoral platform of some candidate. Let's only hope that he has the momentum to fix the mess that car ownership is in. I'm not holding my breath though, for it's profitable for the government the way it is now.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
3) If you don't pay taxes to this country, then get the hell out!

Hey, that would also work here. Only 12% of us would remain. The question is, where would we send the returning illegal immigrants that refuse to pay taxes in the US OR Mexico or elsewhere?
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:07 pm



Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 38):
That is like saying you can fly a 747 from LAX-FRA because you've "studied" and have the "knowledge" to fly the plane, but have never been at the controls of any aircraft.

A few things wrong with that.

1.) A person would be better off with book experience than none at all. Would you want to be in an emergency LAX-FRA and there becomes a scenario that someone needs to fly the plane with the pilots being incapacitated. Would you want Joe Jack who fixes cars for a living and on his first time flying take the plane down to safety. Or Jack Jackmen who has studied in the field of aviation for 20 years and knows the aircraft inside and out land the plane.

2.) Lets say its a private jet. There is no way the FAA would EVER let that plane take off and the person would not even know how to take off.

3.) Completely 2 different things. Politics and planes. You can study law and politics and laws for 15 years and jump right into the field . You can study planes and aviation for 15 years and not have no "behind the yoke" experience you still need to get your pilots license. But for the flip side to get your drivers permit you need to study the DMV manual and take the test so studying give you some knowledge of what your doing over someone who has never looked into the field at all.

Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 38):

I think the nature of this statement entirely ruins your credibility on the matter. Without the racial attacks, lets look at this subject from both sides.
Company Owner: If you can potentially save hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions, but outsourcing your entire baseline customer service department to another country, thus saving a company you have a person stake in, would you do it? Maybe the company is incorporated or public, and you have no risk of your own person stake or assets - instead, at President or CEO, one of your main duties is to increase profitability and increase shareholder dividends. Do you pay the extra $XXmillion a year, or do you save that money to re-invest in other, more profitable divisions or aspects of the company? How do you explain to the Board of Trustee's and the shareholders that you've decided to spend the extra $XXmillion on keeping that operation domestic? I guarantee that 99% of Boards and 99% of the shareholders will be against your stand - as selfless as it is.
United States Economy: Yes, it hurts the United States economy. It takes jobs away from Americans. But the money saved on the outsourced jobs eventually makes its way back into the economy.

All that will do is lower the economy in the US witch means the average US citizen who's job got outsourced will not be able to buy the product of the company that outscored witch means that lowers the company that outscored sales witch causes them to go bankrupt. (extreme situation but could happen). There is no point in helping the economy of other countries at the cost of deteriorating ours. Countries should not be depending on us for jobs instead helping the economy in those countries by working there them selves.

Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 38):

You guys are contradicting each other here. Steeler83 said the Government needs to stop interfering, but here you say the government should intervene and "fix" these companies. So which is it?

We are not boyfriend and girlfriend we don't have to agree on everything. I'm Moderate-Conservative he could be hardcore Conservative. It is irrelevant we don't have to agree on everything.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 39):

I'm sure at some point this will be addressed in the electoral platform of some candidate. Let's only hope that he has the momentum to fix the mess that car ownership is in. I'm not holding my breath though, for it's profitable for the government the way it is now.

What kind of government does Mexico have in place?

Quoting AM744 (Reply 39):

Hey, that would also work here. Only 12% of us would remain. The question is, where would we send the returning illegal immigrants that refuse to pay taxes in the US OR Mexico or elsewhere?

Canada or Africa  duck 
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
OffshoreAir
Posts: 128
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:45 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 40):

All that will do is lower the economy in the US witch means the average US citizen who's job got outsourced will not be able to buy the product of the company that outscored witch means that lowers the company that outscored sales witch causes them to go bankrupt. (extreme situation but could happen). There is no point in helping the economy of other countries at the cost of deteriorating ours. Countries should not be depending on us for jobs instead helping the economy in those countries by working there them selves.

How very machiavellian of you.
OffshoreAir
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:43 pm



Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 41):

How very machiavellian of you.

Gee whiz thanks!  Big grin One can try!!!

People tend to turn to semi-insulting comments when their  boxedin 


At any rate I understand people have different political views and I respect yours as a person.

Not every one should share the same views if that would happen the world would be a weird place full of politically one sided robots.
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:47 pm



Quoting AirCatalonia (Reply 9):

1. The monarchy goes out. It's totally antidemocratic, a thing of the past brought back by Franco and a waste of money.

Whatever you feel about the Monarchy, Franco kicked them out. They lived in exile until the current government came back into power.

Quoting AirCatalonia (Reply 9):

3. Swiss linguistic model: All 4 languages are equal in rights. And the so-called "spanish" is just one of them.

I count Euskara, Castellano, Aragonés, Catalán, Gallego, and, if you want to start getting esoteric, Andalúz and Extremeño along with a few others.

However, they are NOT all equal in rights. Article 3 of the Spanish constitution states that "Castilian is the official Spanish language of the state. All Spaniards have the duty to know it and the right to use it." This is important. Having an agreed-upon language allows a country to function well. It's a major thorn in the side for the Swiss that a third of their population needs to resort to a fourth language (English) to communicate with the other two thirds.

Spain needs to start focusing on English. It's the agreed-upon language for the EU and for the world of business. I am always stunned at the Spaniards I meet, many of them otherwise very educated and cultured, who cannot speak any language other than Castilian, and sometimes a local language. I was no fan of Rajoy, but the one place where I really agreed with him was his view that half of all education in Spain should be in English, just like the Germans do.

Sorry, dude. I know you're Catalán, but just as the Dutch and the Swedish have recognized that their respective languages are not major world languages and that, thus, all of their citizens must learn English, the Catalanes also have to learn the same lesson. Castilian IS a major world language and the official language of your nation. English is THE major world language and you should all learn to speak it. I don't say that because I'm an American. If you met me in person, you'd have a tough time deciding whether I was from Cáceres or Madrid. I say it because it's the truth.

One thing is that Spain has to get off this kick of Catalánes vs. Castellanos vs. Euskati. And waving the Spanish flag needs to stop being "facha." Identifying as a nation, from many one, is not fascist. Just because Franco did it doesn't make it automatically bad. A lot of the separatist/autonomist garbage that has gotten wrapped up in Spanish liberalism strikes me, as an outsider, as counterproductive. Cataluña needs to learn to be part of Spain while keeping its own identity, just as many U.S. states have learned to be part of the U.S. while keeping their own identity.

Quoting AirCatalonia (Reply 9):

5. Start controlling immigration. When travelling in the public transport you cannot tell anymore if you are in Spain, some south american republic or Morocco. Which would be ok for me as long as public services could cope with it. Public health, for instance, is completely overwhelmed.

I agree there. When I was working in Leganés, we had a mom of a sick baby who was born in Equatorial Guinea show up at the hospital. The baby was a complete invalid but the family was almost certain to get free healthcare and medical citizenship. This is not a valid system of operation. My heart goes out to that mother, but Spain cannot heal the sick of all the world.

It's not about national identity, but it is about social resources. Spain has a real problem right now with that.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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AM744
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:07 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 40):
What kind of government does Mexico have in place?

Federal government is conservative, democratically elected (more so in 2000 than in 2006).
The credibility of key democratic institutions that organize and sanction elections took a blow during the latest election.

Richest states vote right, poorer states (in which old structures and leaderships persist) vote center and the rest vote left. Mexico City being the exception (highest GDP in the nation), has voted left ever since 1997 when the Mayor was elected for the first time rather than being appointed by the President.
 
7324ever
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:21 pm



Quoting AM744 (Reply 44):

Federal government is conservative, democratically elected (more so in 2000 than in 2006).
The credibility of key democratic institutions that organize and sanction elections took a blow during the latest election.

Richest states vote right, poorer states (in which old structures and leaderships persist) vote center and the rest vote left. Mexico City being the exception (highest GDP in the nation), has voted left ever since 1997 when the Mayor was elected for the first time rather than being appointed by the President.

Who would the president appoint? corrupt officials or friends?
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
AM744
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:39 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 45):
Who would the president appoint? corrupt officials or friends?


Most likely a party member, not necessarily corrupt or a friend (that could be so, but it wouldn't be the rule by any means). In the last 25 years power has become less and less centralized, which is healthy.
 
steeler83
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 38):
You guys are contradicting each other here. Steeler83 said the Government needs to stop interfering, but here you say the government should intervene and "fix" these companies. So which is it?

Well, there are some special situations where government intervention is necessary (i.e. AIG. I think we can all agree that if that huge insurance company were to fail we'd all be in big trouble). I think I can agree with 7324ever's comment on that. I guess my argument, for the most part, is that when the government gets involved with just about everything, we go right out of the frying pan and into the fire -- our problems either become bigger or new problems are created.

For the record, my "habib/pablo" remark was not meant to be racist. It was solely to indicate where some of our jobs are going. You can't blame the companies really, they're trying to make money. When they start sending jobs overseas, then that should be telling you that something's wrong here. That was my main argument, altho:

Quoting OffshoreAir (Reply 38):
Company Owner: If you can potentially save hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions, but outsourcing your entire baseline customer service department to another country, thus saving a company you have a person stake in, would you do it? Maybe the company is incorporated or public, and you have no risk of your own person stake or assets - instead, at President or CEO, one of your main duties is to increase profitability and increase shareholder dividends. Do you pay the extra $XXmillion a year, or do you save that money to re-invest in other, more profitable divisions or aspects of the company? How do you explain to the Board of Trustee's and the shareholders that you've decided to spend the extra $XXmillion on keeping that operation domestic? I guarantee that 99% of Boards and 99% of the shareholders will be against your stand - as selfless as it is.
United States Economy: Yes, it hurts the United States economy. It takes jobs away from Americans. But the money saved on the outsourced jobs eventually makes its way back into the economy.

I do see your point here. Yes, for the most part, baseline customer services is sent overseas, as are other divisions. Those and manufacturing jobs are going elsewhere. Sometimes it does make its way back to support the US economy again (big corporate savings, higher net profit/revenues, etc), but what if some of those products are recalled because of some flaw with the assembly?

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 40):
All that will do is lower the economy in the US witch means the average US citizen who's job got outsourced will not be able to buy the product of the company that outscored witch means that lowers the company that outscored sales witch causes them to go bankrupt. (extreme situation but could happen). There is no point in helping the economy of other countries at the cost of deteriorating ours. Countries should not be depending on us for jobs instead helping the economy in those countries by working there them selves.

This is where I stand in terms of our manufacturing jobs. Sure, there are some manufacturing jobs here, but compare now with the types of jobs from some 20 - 20 years ago and beyond (longer ago). The US has become more of a services-based economy and does not export many products. We've sent all of our manufacturing to South America, China, and some over to Europe and therefore have to import the products produced in those countries for the most part. With oil on the way up, I don't think we're saving a whole lot with shipping/handling factored into the overall cost either...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
7324ever
Topic Author
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RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:57 pm



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 47):
For the record, my "habib/pablo" remark was not meant to be racist.

It is not racist your right its just pointing out that the vast majority of jobs are being shipped to India particularly in the phone support sector. And Mexicans pick up the low end of the construction market. But when a company shifts out jobs to make more money then in turn pocket the money to the CEOs its pretty much a loose win situation the consumer looses and the the CEOs win.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 47):
but what if some of those products are recalled because of some flaw with the assembly?

Like the China lead paint scare were companies who manufactured the toys with lead paint?

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 47):

This is where I stand in terms of our manufacturing jobs. Sure, there are some manufacturing jobs here, but compare now with the types of jobs from some 20 - 20 years ago and beyond (longer ago). The US has become more of a services-based economy and does not export many products. We've sent all of our manufacturing to South America, China, and some over to Europe and therefore have to import the products produced in those countries for the most part. With oil on the way up, I don't think we're saving a whole lot with shipping/handling factored into the overall cost either...

Very true were we save in labor we spend in import export kind of a double edge sword.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 46):


Most likely a party member, not necessarily corrupt or a friend (that could be so, but it wouldn't be the rule by any means). In the last 25 years power has become less and less centralized, which is healthy.

How long will it be untill the whole thing evens out to a point were intervention is feasible?
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Lets Improve A Country

Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:03 pm



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 48):
It is not racist your right its just pointing out that the vast majority of jobs are being shipped to India particularly in the phone support sector. And Mexicans pick up the low end of the construction market. But when a company shifts out jobs to make more money then in turn pocket the money to the CEOs its pretty much a loose win situation the consumer looses and the the CEOs win.

Thank you!

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 48):
Like the China lead paint scare were companies who manufactured the toys with lead paint?

That's EXACTLY where I was going with that!

Quoting 7324ever (Reply 48):
Very true were we save in labor we spend in import export kind of a double edge sword.

Yup...

Something else that I wanted to add. What is your opinion with unions? In some cases, I think they're good, but as far as the big picture is concerned (overall run/health of the company), they can be quite a detriment...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.

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