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stasisLAX
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European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:27 am

Encouraging news from LeftLaneNews.com -

"European clean diesels – along with lower diesel prices – is starting to sway American buyers. Diesel sales have increased significantly so far this year, with more sales success expected. Volkswagen’s Jetta TDI is leading the way with some impressive sales figures. Jetta TDI sales totaled 3,862 units last month, up from 2,253 sales in April. Moreover, about 36 percent of all Jetta sales are of the TDI clean diesel variety.

“We would expect equal or higher sales of diesels this month,” a VW spokesman told Autoweek.

The Jetta TDI SportWagen is seeing an even higher take rate, with about 50 percent of all buyers opting for the diesel option. Mercedes-Benz is seeing similar success with its clean diesel SUV offerings. Through the first five months of the year, the diesel-powered ML has notched 8,242 sales, or about 16.5 percent of all ML sales.

Source: http://www.leftlanenews.com/clean-diesels-seeing-strong-u-s-sales.html

The question is - will clean-burn diesel cars FINALLY gain a foothold in the U.S. marketplace? I'm voting yes on this, because I think as word of mouth spreads from happy diesel VW/Mercedes/BMW owners to the masses, diesel-powered cars will see a strong resurgence. Perhaps the ghost of the Oldsmobile/GM diesel from the 1970's and '80's is actually done haunting the Amercan car buyers' minds.....  confused 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
BMI727
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:37 am

Excellent news. Any of you who have read my car related posts already know that I'm a huge proponent of diesels.

Diesels certainly provide the best solution, at least in the short term. They have the best performance characteristics, most available fuel and fewest tradeoffs of any of the options. I'd rather have a car which can be fueled easily and has nice low end torque versus some overgrown golf cart with a thousand pounds of lithium ion ballast.

Diesels aren't just for trucks anymore.
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PPVRA
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:42 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
Volkswagen’s Jetta TDI

They have a funny commercial comparing the TDI to the Prius. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXK63kvUi6U

 silly 

Not that I have anything against hybrids.
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Jetsgo
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:03 am

I'm planning on buying a new car in August and am giving the Jetta TDI some serious consideration. I definitely wouldn't mind the clean technology and better fuel economy on my weekly trips down to Sacramento and the Central Valley. However living in Reno, all wheel drive or four wheel drive are almost a necessity during the winter months...so it's all up in the air really.

Give me a TDI with 4Motion and I'm all yours VW.  cloudnine 
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RayChuang
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:36 am

Now, if we can just talk VW into offering the 2.0 TDI engine in the Tiguan "crossover" SUV.

I do think VW may offer their 1.6 TDI engine in the US market on the upcoming Polo, which VW has said will come to the USA market.
 
andz
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:38 am

BMW 320d... BMW 320d... BMW 320d... is it working yet?  Smile
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Superfly
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:21 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
is actually done haunting the Amercan car buyers' minds.....

Shouldn't that read diesels car sales strong in the US?
German cars are the only one's availible as diesel in the US.
At any rate, I am glad to see diesels making a resurgence in popularity again here in the US.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Francoflier
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:30 am

What diesel engine is in the US Jetta? Is it one of the latest versions used in Europe as well or is it an 'older' banger?

It's quite scary how diesel technology has advanced in Europe. Although it's not surprising seeing how almost everybody buys them. Power/displacement ratios are now on par or higher than those of unleaded engines.

What does irk me is that manufacturers in Europe aren't interested in pouring money into petrol engines development anymore. There are ome improvements to be made there too.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:48 am



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 7):
What diesel engine is in the US Jetta? Is it one of the latest versions used in Europe as well or is it an 'older' banger?

2.0 L 4-cylinder diesel TDI
Base Engine Type: Inline 4
Horsepower: 140 hp
Max Horsepower: 4000 rpm
Torque: 236 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 1750 rpm
Drive Type: FWD

Fuel Data
Fuel Tank Capacity: 14.5 gal.
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway/Combined)
Manual: 30 mpg / 41 mpg / 34 mpg
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DTManiac
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:03 am



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 4):

I do think VW may offer their 1.6 TDI engine in the US market on the upcoming Polo, which VW has said will come to the USA market.

I ordered a new Rabbit 1.6 TDI in May just two days after this new engine became available for the Rabbit. The numbers are quite impressive.

Milage for the manual: 41/60/52 mpg (5.7/3.9/4.5 l/100km)

The 1.6 TDI is supposed to have approximately the same torque as the 2.0 TDI engine and a similar power (105hp for the 1.6 TDI, 110hp for the 2.0 TDI). The version StasisLAX is mentioning is already an uprated 2.0 TDI.

The car is supposed to be delivered in September. Can't wait  Smile
Gig 'em Aggies!!!
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:09 am

Well this is encouraging. I hope this will be the beginning of the end for the stupid over-hyped hybrid era.

Once we can can figure out how to streamline Biodiesel production then we can really get the ball rolling with diesel cars.  yes 

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):
They have a funny commercial comparing the TDI to the Prius. . .

 rotfl  Epic win! I've always loved Vdub's marketing they're pretty damn good at it. Big grin

I mean heck, the Prius is little more than a sardine can. The Jetta is a proper car, a very properly built and a very proper handling one at that.
 
Superfly
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:26 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 10):
I mean heck, the Prius is little more than a sardine can. The Jetta is a proper car, a very properly built and a very proper handling one at that.

Very true.
I have to hand it to the Germans. They certainly know how to build a solid and very efficient diesel engine. That is something Ford, GM and Chrysler really needs to hop on board with. Our diesels for the large trucks are great but there needs to be small cars with available diesel engines as well.
I hope the Ford Fiesta is successful when it comes here.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 10):
Well this is encouraging. I hope this will be the beginning of the end for the stupid over-hyped hybrid era.

 checkmark 
Amen to that!
Bring back the Concorde
 
MAH4546
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:18 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
I have to hand it to the Germans. They certainly know how to build a solid and very efficient diesel engine. That is something Ford, GM and Chrysler really needs to hop on board with.

Ford has excellent diesel engine expertise but continues to refuse to bring it to the United States. Instead they waste money on products like the overpriced Fusion Hybrid, when a diesel engine can achieve just about the same efficiency with less development costs. Though we can blame American consumers for that - hybrids are cool, diesels are not. Hopefully that will change.
a.
 
JJJ
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:57 am



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 7):
What does irk me is that manufacturers in Europe aren't interested in pouring money into petrol engines development anymore. There are ome improvements to be made there too.

I don't think that's true.

The trend of turbocharging smaller displacement petrol engines to get better oomph and fuel economy started a few years back and hasn't stopped yet.

VW launched the 1.4 TSI engine, Fiat did the 1.4 T-Jet.... even peugeot developed the 1.6 THP for the 308.
 
jush
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:18 am



Quoting JJJ (Reply 13):


Quoting Francoflier (Reply 7):
What does irk me is that manufacturers in Europe aren't interested in pouring money into petrol engines development anymore. There are ome improvements to be made there too.

I don't think that's true.

The trend of turbocharging smaller displacement petrol engines to get better oomph and fuel economy started a few years back and hasn't stopped yet.

VW launched the 1.4 TSI engine, Fiat did the 1.4 T-Jet.... even peugeot developed the 1.6 THP for the 308.

Exactly. VW's TSI enigines are pretty impressive indeed. They give you the torque you need at lower rpms comparable to diesels. Have a better fuel economy and more hp than comparable petrol engines.
This is a good alternative for "student" cars. As tax for diesel engines is quite expensive here in Germany a petrol engine with diesel characteristics is just brilliant.
So petrol engine development is still ongoing.

Regds
jush
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N328KF
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:44 am



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 3):
Give me a TDI with 4Motion and I'm all yours VW.

Audi is bringing A3 and A4 (and Q7) TDIs to the US within the next year. The A3 TDI should be shipping shortly.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
swissy
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:34 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Shouldn't that read diesels car sales strong in the US?
German cars are the only one's availible as diesel in the US.
At any rate, I am glad to see diesels making a resurgence in popularity again here in the US.


 checkmark 

And it is time for Ford & GM to follow.....  Smile

Cheerios,
 
lowrider
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:55 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
The question is - will clean-burn diesel cars FINALLY gain a foothold in the U.S. marketplace?

We can only hope.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 4):
Now, if we can just talk VW into offering the 2.0 TDI engine in the Tiguan "crossover" SUV

I actually emailed VW via thier customer feedback link and asked them this very thing. Unfortunately all I got in response was a standard form letter. Still, maybe if they see enough of these emails, it will may make a point.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 16):
And it is time for Ford & GM to follow.....

I wouldn't hold my breath. GM probably won't be allowed, and I don't think Ford has the cash right now.
Proud OOTSK member
 
David L
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:08 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
German cars are the only one's availible as diesel in the US

I can't claim to be a car expert but Jaguar seem to have some nifty diesel engines now. Given that they've gone "very diesel" over here, I'm surprised they don't sell them in the Stares.
 
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N328KF
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:25 pm



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 4):
Now, if we can just talk VW into offering the 2.0 TDI engine in the Tiguan "crossover" SUV.

I'd rather see the Golf Plus or Touran here.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:58 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 18):
I can't claim to be a car expert but Jaguar seem to have some nifty diesel engines now. Given that they've gone "very diesel" over here, I'm surprised they don't sell them in the Stares.

Apart from the cultural dislike for diesels in America (which I am happy to say they are finally starting to get over, after a horrendous experience in the 70s/80s), there are a couple of critical problems that need to be overcome in order for diesel to become more widespread here.

1) Fuel taxes tend to be higher on diesel than on gasoline in the U.S., just the opposite of what you have in Europe. That negates some of the savings you get from diesel, and against which you have to justify the added expense of a diesel engine, which is more expensive to build than a gasoline engine. So the US government needs to reverse the diesel/gas tax gap, or make them equal at the very least.

2) European diesel is about 46 cetane. American diesel is generally between 38-42 cetane (oversimplifying, you can consider diesel cetane=octane for gasoline. Lower cetane numbers are optimised for large, low-reving engines like our heavy trucks, which are the prime users here. Higher cetanes are better for smaller, higher-reving car engines). This means that if you put a european diesel car on a boat and bring it here, it probably won't run very well. All diesel cars sold in america will have to have their engines modified.

The US could also mandate a cetane level of 45-46, but the trucking industry won't like it.
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N328KF
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:13 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
1) Fuel taxes tend to be higher on diesel than on gasoline in the U.S., just the opposite of what you have in Europe.

While this tends to be true, in the Chicago area right now, diesel is about $0.20 cheaper per gallon than 87 octane gasoline.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
David L
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:39 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):

Ah, fair enough.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
after a horrendous experience in the 70s/80s,

Diesels cars were pretty horrendous here back then, too.  eyepopping 

I must admit, I was one of the many who was horrified at the mass "dieselisation" of Jaguars but I've been swayed by their current range. Of course, their new 5 litre petrol engines on the XF are also pretty impressive.  Smile
 
Kiwirob
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:32 pm



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 3):
Give me a TDI with 4Motion and I'm all yours VW.

Move to Europe we get them here, it's a great car, it makes the Tiguan pointless IMO.

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 9):
The 1.6 TDI is supposed to have approximately the same torque as the 2.0 TDI engine and a similar power (105hp for the 1.6 TDI, 110hp for the 2.0 TDI).

You mean the 1.9 TDi, the 2.0 is either 140hp or 170hp. The new 1.6 replaced the old 1.9.

We own two diesel cars a BMW 318d and a Mini Clubman Cooper D, unless I was buying a sportscar I very much doubt I will ever buy a petrol powered car again.

[Edited 2009-06-24 11:34:28]
 
Kiwirob
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:47 pm



Quoting JJJ (Reply 13):
even peugeot developed the 1.6 THP for the 308

In conjunction with BMW who use it in the Mini, the Mini version is better it has BMW's efficient dynamics and in the Cooper Works 208hp.
 
Sabena332
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:24 pm



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 4):
Now, if we can just talk VW into offering the 2.0 TDI engine in the Tiguan "crossover" SUV.

It is available here in Germany. One of my father's company cars is a Tiguan 2.0 TDI. I drive it frequently and in my opinion is it is a good engine in combination with the the 4Motion and the 6-Gear automatic.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 8):
2.0 L 4-cylinder diesel TDI
Base Engine Type: Inline 4
Horsepower: 140 hp

The new 2.0L TDI engines have 170hp here in Germany. In the past they used to have 140hp.

Quoting Jush (Reply 14):
VW's TSI enigines are pretty impressive indeed.

I agree. I drove the 1.4 TSI engine in the new Scirocco and I was satisfied, a lot power and low fuel consumption.

Patrick
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stasisLAX
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:17 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 22):
I must admit, I was one of the many who was horrified at the mass "dieselisation" of Jaguars

Not only Jaguar, but now diesel-motors now offered by Porsche (in the Cayenne SUV and the new Panamera 5-door sedan).
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A342
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:22 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
You mean the 1.9 TDi, the 2.0 is either 140hp or 170hp.

No, he's right. At least until the 1.6TDI starts shipping, a 110hp version of the 2.0 is available in some cars.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 25):
The new 2.0L TDI engines have 170hp here in Germany. In the past they used to have 140hp.

Both are still available, some models also have 136 and 143hp versions (e.g. Audi A4 and A6).
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:30 pm

Actually, the trucking industry would LOVE to get higher cetane rated diesel fuel in the USA. The reason is simple: it would generate more power for the same displacement, which means tractor-trailer rigs can get by with smaller engines.
 
aero145
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:38 pm



Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 25):
The new 2.0L TDI engines have 170hp here in Germany. In the past they used to have 140hp.

Actually you can get both! Audi even tunes the engine down to 120 PS in the A4.  Smile But you can of course get the normal 140 and 170 there too. Fine engines, impossible to hear them when they’re used dieselisch, and the fuel economy is amazing. CR for the win!
 
Sabena332
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:46 pm



Quoting A342 (Reply 27):
Both are still available,



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 29):
Actually you can get both!

You guys are right! I forgot that the new Scirocco is available with the 2.0L 140hp TDI engine. But the Tiguan's and the Eos' 2.0L engine changed to 170hp, the 140hp version is not available any longer.

Patrick
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Kiwirob
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:49 pm



Quoting A342 (Reply 27):
No, he's right. At least until the 1.6TDI starts shipping, a 110hp version of the 2.0 is available in some cars.

Woops sorry thinking Golf 5 which had the following diesels:

1.9L 66 kW (90 PS) TDI I4
1.9L 77 kW (105 PS) TDI I4
2.0L 55 kW (75 PS) SDI I4
2.0L 103 kW (140 PS) TDI I4
2.0L 125 kW (170 PS) TDI I4

I think BMW should send the 320D to the US, it's probably the best diesel engined car in the world today, yeah the 6 cyclinders have more power but the 320D is fast enough and gets stunning economy, its a complete package.
 
ozglobal
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:54 pm

When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
DTManiac
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:55 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
You mean the 1.9 TDi, the 2.0 is either 140hp or 170hp. The new 1.6 replaced the old 1.9.

Nope. In Germany they dont offer the 1.9 TDI for the new Rabbit VI anymore. However, they have a 2.0 TDI engine with 110hp on offer (besides other 2.0 TDI versions). I guess that will probably change sooner or later since the new 1.6 TDI offers pretty much the same specs than the 110hp-2.0 TDI. An 1.9 TDI is not available anymore for the Rabbit VI.

You are right for the Rabbit V though, I think.
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MAH4546
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:49 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Audi is bringing A3 and A4 (and Q7) TDIs to the US within the next year. The A3 TDI should be shipping shortly.

Q7 TDI is already on sale in the United States.
a.
 
Flighty
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:52 pm

Diesel has always made sense in America. We drive huge distances at slow speeds. We need torque.

But, in recent years the EPA regulations were manipulated by Detroit to keep diesel cars out of the USA marketplace. Eventually, new diesels were invented to comply with USA regulations. But Detroit was responsible for this huge delay in diesel automobiles.

Still, word has it that VW's Jetta diesel is unprofitable and hence they strictly limit production to either 20,000 or 50,000 per year.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:00 pm



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 32):
I drive a Peugeot Coupe 407 V6 2.7 HDI and it goes like a rocket and drinks modestly:


And looks VERY stylish too. Way better then a Prius, IMHO.  bigthumbsup 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
mham001
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:16 am



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 7):
It's quite scary how diesel technology has advanced in Europe. Although it's not surprising seeing how almost everybody buys them. Power/displacement ratios are now on par or higher than those of unleaded engines.

What does irk me is that manufacturers in Europe aren't interested in pouring money into petrol engines development anymore. There are ome improvements to be made there too.

I was just reading last week that diesel sales are down in either Europe or Britain due to the advances in gas engine efficiencies. Its not over yet.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:43 am

4 weeks living with a 2.8 CRD engine (albeit shite VM) but still... and im counting down the 6 days left I have until I can be delivered by the grace of god to my V8. The only good thing is 800km on one tank in a SUV. My savings of maybe $200 over one month are really idiotic when Ive cheated death by the closest of margins when I shouldnt have on these trecherous roads because of either turbo lag or a treacherous drop off of power when passing a caravan of Lithuanian or Ukrainian semi-trucks. The ML 320 CDI 4Matic (which Im quite familiar with in the Jeep GC CRD) I just also drove few days back down to Budapest was better but its nonetheless horse manure compared to petrol in certain situations.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
I think BMW should send the 320D to the US, it's probably the best diesel engined car in the world today, yeah the 6 cyclinders have more power but the 320D is fast enough and gets stunning economy, its a complete package.

I just drove this car last weekend. Slow is what id call it, and how can you call this the best diesel engineered car when you have a 335D?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Instead they waste money on products like the overpriced Fusion Hybrid, when a diesel engine can achieve just about the same efficiency with less development costs. Though we can blame American consumers for that - hybrids are cool, diesels are not. Hopefully that will change.

Quit blaming Ford and instead blame those idiots at Toyota and Honda feeding us with this Hybrid hype. Ford just had to best the Camry Hybrid, itself a hyped up POS. Biggest idiots in my book? People who buy Escalade and Tahoe hybird..I like both cars but please this is ridiculous.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 37):
I was just reading last week that diesel sales are down in either Europe or Britain due to the advances in gas engine efficiencies. Its not over yet.

Problem with going smaller displacement and Turbocharging/SC whether EcoBoost, Ecotecs with blowers or VWs is that you have to put premium in it. By the time youve actually saved yourself 15% on fuel economy, youre just paying for 91/93 octane at the pump and negate such savings.
 
aerobalance
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:20 am

Until a diesel powered car gets hybrid type mileage in city/urban conditions, it will be tough to overcome the hybrids foothold in this domain. I'm not sold on anything besides a petrol engine for everyday use at this point - much cheaper to own and operate. However, I await to witness what the future may bring.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
Kiwirob
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:14 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 35):
Still, word has it that VW's Jetta diesel is unprofitable and hence they strictly limit production to either 20,000 or 50,000 per year.

I can't see why, in Europe most jettas would be diesel, they would sell far more that 50,000 units.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 38):
how can you call this the best diesel engineered car when you have a 335D?

But the 335D isn't all that economical especially if you drive it like you stole it. The 320D hit's 100 in 8 seconds, tops 225kph, gets great mileage, it's a very good alround package, it's the most popular car in the entire BMW range.
 
Flighty
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:28 am



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
I can't see why, in Europe most jettas would be diesel, they would sell far more that 50,000 units.

Here, the car is only 21,000 USD and the gasoline cars are more profitable.

If you could see how much money used VW diesel cars bring, you would be amazed how distorted the market really is. Our market has been absolutely starved for diesels. Starved near dead. But, that is slowly remedying itself. For every 5 diesel models announced, only 1 actually reaches the dealers. But slowly we are getting the product we need. (Subaru diesel? Honda Accord diesel 2010?)
 
JJJ
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:09 am



Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 38):
Problem with going smaller displacement and Turbocharging/SC whether EcoBoost, Ecotecs with blowers or VWs is that you have to put premium in it. By the time youve actually saved yourself 15% on fuel economy, youre just paying for 91/93 octane at the pump and negate such savings.

That's because you get crap gas. Here standard is 95 RON (would be 90-91 in the US).

Turbos run just fine on 95 RON.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 37):
I was just reading last week that diesel sales are down in either Europe or Britain due to the advances in gas engine efficiencies. Its not over yet

Diesels also more expensive to buy, and in the current situation a couple grand off can make a difference.
 
Superfly
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:21 am



Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 38):
Quit blaming Ford and instead blame those idiots at Toyota and Honda feeding us with this Hybrid hype. Ford just had to best the Camry Hybrid,

 checkmark 

Toyota is synonymous with "hybrid" here in the US.
Most brands have a hybrid in their lineup just for the sake of having one and earning green points from those folks that care about that crap.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 35):
But, in recent years the EPA regulations were manipulated by Detroit to keep diesel cars out of the USA marketplace. Eventually, new diesels were invented to comply with USA regulations. But Detroit was responsible for this huge delay in diesel automobiles.

Source?
Bring back the Concorde
 
BMI727
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:31 am



Quoting JJJ (Reply 42):
Diesels also more expensive to buy, and in the current situation a couple grand off can make a difference.

True, but the rising cost of gasoline in relation to diesel is shrinking the break even mileage for diesel vehicles.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
JJJ
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:09 am



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 44):
True, but the rising cost of gasoline in relation to diesel is shrinking the break even mileage for diesel vehicles

Here it's been exactly the opposite, diesel (which used to be much cheaper than petrol) is now more on a par with gas.
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2511
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:18 am



Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 39):
I'm not sold on anything besides a petrol engine for everyday use at this point - much cheaper to own and operate. However, I await to witness what the future may bring.

In Europe, petrol is not cheaper to own or operate. In some cases, eg Peugeot HDI, the diesel technology is the more advanced and reliable of the two. Performance, with two stage turbos, like my Coupe 407, is at least as good as petrol in terms of responsiveness and acceleration. The only time you know it's a diesel is when you fill up!
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
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N328KF
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:39 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 35):
Still, word has it that VW's Jetta diesel is unprofitable and hence they strictly limit production to either 20,000 or 50,000 per year.



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 40):
I can't see why, in Europe most jettas would be diesel, they would sell far more that 50,000 units.

I took this to mean that sales of the Jetta TDI in the US are unprofitable. The TDIs are manufactured in Germany, where as the other Jetta/Golfs are manufactured in Mexico.

I expect that Volkswagen continues selling them here as part of their VW/Audi diesel assault on the North American market. Mark my words, there will be TDIs rolling out of Chattanooga to replace the German diesels.

For what it's worth, I have friends who have owned Mexico-built and Germany-built Jetta/Golfs, and they state that there exists a marked quality difference between the two (with the Wolfsburg units faring better.)
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
aero145
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RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:49 am



Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 30):
I forgot that the new Scirocco is available with the 2.0L 140hp TDI engine.

Well, I think that’s an easy thing to forget. A Scirocco SHOULD NOT have a Diesel engine!!!

 rotfl 
 
Kiwirob
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: European Diesel Car Sales Strong In U.S.

Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:59 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 47):
The TDIs are manufactured in Germany, where as the other Jetta/Golfs are manufactured in Mexico.

No they aren't, there is no Jetta or Golf/Jetta Wagon assembly in Europe, all European models are built in Mexico.

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