User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:54 pm

So the contracts are due to be handed out and will run for 20 years. Interesting article and we will see how the Iraqis dish out the portions. They claim it will be fair but I have a suspicion that the USA will 'clean up''. More importantly , should they?

Comments ???

Global oil firms are set to have a run at Iraq's vast oil resources when the contracts for the biggest fields are auctioned off this month.

However the 29 June tender for service contracts in six already producing oilfields and two undeveloped gas fields is fraught with risk following a revolt in the state-run oil industry and continuing violence and political uncertainty.

Despite this, oil companies are attracted by the allure of the world's third largest oil reserves, and of greater riches down the road from Iraq's under-exploited and under-explored oil resources.

When former US President George W Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, critics charged it was because the US wanted to get its hands on Iraq's 115 billion barrels or more of reserves.

Eyebrows may be raised if oil companies from nations that took part in the invasion walk away winners in the auction. But the Iraqi government insists that is calling the shots

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0625/iraqoil.html
 
National757
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:05 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:02 pm

Bet the Chinese make out like bandits. Money talks and right now China has money to burn
 
Okie
Posts: 3610
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:27 pm



Quoting National757 (Reply 1):
Bet the Chinese make out like bandits. Money talks and right now China has money to burn

China is at least the 2nd largest if not the largest producer of land based oil production equipment.
Drilling rigs, pipe, compressors, pumps, anything to sell on the world market or use to produce for their own consumption.

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):

When former US President George W Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, critics charged it was because the US wanted to get its hands on Iraq's 115 billion barrels or more of reserves

Such has proven not to be the case. The present administration plans to air up your tyres and empty pocket book.

There just is not too many big players left in the US domestic market. Look for China, Kuwait, British Petro, Royal Dutch, Total to have the money, I do not think Chevron-Texaco or Exxon-Mobil will be direct players.

Okie
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10158
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting Okie (Reply 2):
Look for China, Kuwait, British Petro, Royal Dutch, Total to have the money,

I would add Statoilhydro and ENI to that list.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:57 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
When former US President George W Bush invaded Iraq in 2003, critics charged it was because the US wanted to get its hands on Iraq's 115 billion barrels or more of reserves.

Oh yeah that's exactly why he did it...  Yeah sure
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
windy95
Posts: 2660
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:25 am



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
More importantly , should they?

Yes the countries that did the heavy lifting should get the inside advantage on the contracts.

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
critics charged it was because the US wanted to get its hands on Iraq's 115 billion barrels or more of reserves.

And that really proved to be true Embarrassment
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13268
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:31 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Eyebrows may be raised if oil companies from nations that took part in the invasion walk away winners in the auction.

The United States sacrifices 4,500 lives, tens of thousands of severely wounded, Hundreds of Billions of dollars of treasure and you think eye brows would be raised if US companies won the rights?...

It's going to be US troops protecting the oil companies who will come in to work on these fields.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11022
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:22 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Eyebrows may be raised if oil companies from nations that took part in the invasion walk away winners in the auction.

You have got to be kidding...........

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
The United States sacrifices 4,500 lives, tens of thousands of severely wounded, Hundreds of Billions of dollars of treasure and you think eye brows would be raised if US companies won the rights?...

It's going to be US troops protecting the oil companies who will come in to work on these fields.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

US companies should get those contracts. But, I'll bet Fina (France) will yell the loudest if they don't get one, or more contracts.

However, I doubt King Barack I will let any of that oil imported into the US. He really wants that cap and trade crap.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4270
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:09 pm

Canadian companies are already getting involved in the Kurdish regions of Iraq.


Much like our banks in the US Canadian energy companies are quietly buying up vast energy reserves around the world.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10158
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:45 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
US companies should get those contracts. But, I'll bet Fina (France) will yell the loudest if they don't get one, or more contracts.

US companies shouldn't be allowed anywhere near those contracts, I wouldn't be surprised if the Iraqis cut you lot right out, I would if I was making the decision.

Fina no longer exists, it wasn't a French company either, it came from Belgium, merged with Total in 1999 to become TotalFina, the company then merged with Elf in 2000, the company is now called Total.

[Edited 2009-06-28 14:55:16]
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10158
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:00 pm



Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
The United States sacrifices 4,500 lives, tens of thousands of severely wounded, Hundreds of Billions of dollars of treasure and you think eye brows would be raised if US companies won the rights?...

That was you own fault, if US companies get the majority of contracts then it just proves what everyone said all along, the US went into Iraq to get their oil.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5288
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:38 pm



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Oh yeah that's exactly why he did it... Yeah sure

Frankly, oil would have been a better reason than the actual reason we invaded which was sadly so that neocons could try and create a legacy for themselves.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13268
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:22 am



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
Frankly, oil would have been a better reason than the actual reason we invaded which was sadly so that neocons could try and create a legacy for themselves.

I agree, I wish it were because of the oil. I fear the true reason was some kind of weird Neo Con think tank experiment that went from the academic theoretical to the actual policy of a George W. Bush Administration.

I think George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be left alone, however Rumsfeld, Doug Fieth, Paul Wolfowitz and Alberto Gonzalez should all be investigated and if it warranted prosecuted.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:14 am



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
so that neocons could try and create a legacy for themselves.

Oh yeah silly me I remember Bush saying that the reason we're invading was to show how big and bad we are
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:22 am



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
Frankly, oil would have been a better reason than the actual reason we invaded which was sadly so that neocons could try and create a legacy for themselves.

And oddly enough, the oil reserves figures they used were yet another fabrication. AAPG published the 2002 reserves at 49 billion barrels, just in time to know that 115 billion was wrong. The AAPG numbers were justified by listing the fields with recoverable reserves and original in place recoverable data. But facts were not going to get in the way of the invasion were they.

Big version: Width: 1756 Height: 936 File size: 147kb


Note that Iraq was essentially a three trick pony. Kirkuk, Majnoon and Rumaila and Kirkuk will soon be on its later if not last legs!!!
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:29 am

All you guys saying the oil argument... why haven't we gotten the oil then? It makes as much sense as invading China to get their rice, it's too much trouble and doesn't make any sense. Even the people that think President Bush was really really stupid, come on, give the man a break, he wasn't that dumb! (I'm not even calling him dumb, I think he's a smart man that made some poor choices).
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11022
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:09 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
US companies shouldn't be allowed anywhere near those contracts, I wouldn't be surprised if the Iraqis cut you lot right out, I would if I was making the decision

Well, then it is good you are not in charge.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
That was you own fault, if US companies get the majority of contracts then it just proves what everyone said all along, the US went into Iraq to get their oil.

Why would it prove that? It has been over 6 years since the US liberated Iraq. The US has gone through two energy crisis since then. In 2003, gasoline in the US cost about $1.25/gal. It went to well over $4.00/gal. last year, and helped to wreck the US economy. Even today, gasoline costs over $2.50/gal., twice what it costs before Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
I agree, I wish it were because of the oil. I fear the true reason was some kind of weird Neo Con think tank experiment that went from the academic theoretical to the actual policy of a George W. Bush Administration.

I think George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be left alone, however Rumsfeld, Doug Fieth, Paul Wolfowitz and Alberto Gonzalez should all be investigated and if it warranted prosecuted.

Liberal crap with no evidence to back it up.

BTW, exactly what laws did Rummy, Fieth, Wolfowitz, and Gonzalez break?

Should we also start investigating the Obama Administration, too?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
All you guys saying the oil argument... why haven't we gotten the oil then?

Correct.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10158
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:50 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
It has been over 6 years since the US liberated Iraq.

I wonder how many in Iraq would consider themselves liberated, I'm pretty sure all those Iraqis who lost loved ones would have preferred to stay unliberated. What importance are 4500 US lives compared to the well over 100,000 Iraqi civilians who have died since liberation.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
In 2003, gasoline in the US cost about $1.25/gal. It went to well over $4.00/gal. last year, and helped to wreck the US economy. Even today, gasoline costs over $2.50/gal., twice what it costs before Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Woopee that's cheap fuel compared to what people in most other Western countries have to pay, I don't feel one little bit sorry for you. Prices in the US are to low for just about everything, the rest of the world has subsidised the US for far to long, it's time you guys actually paid what things are really worth.
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:58 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
I wonder how many in Iraq would consider themselves liberated,

Depends who you chat to. BBC were interviewing normal everyday Iraqis on the street and some said they couldn't wait for the US troops to leave and others said they feared the Militias will come back when the troops go . So I guess opinion is split.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5288
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:00 pm



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
Even the people that think President Bush was really really stupid, come on, give the man a break, he wasn't that dumb!

I don't think Bush was dumb (though he's no genius either), just easily manipulated. This is why the Republicans chose him as their nominee.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
I fear the true reason was some kind of weird Neo Con think tank experiment that went from the academic theoretical to the actual policy of a George W. Bush Administration.

I think this is largely the case. The only thing missing was a good way to convince the American people to support the war. 9/11 completed that puzzle by creating enough fear to push a majority to support it (at least temporarily). The Administration figured that Iraq would be a pushover and a nice trophy to put on the mantle. Countries like Iran and North Korea would be too messy even though those countries posed more threat to the U.S.

Any other benefits, like oil, would be ancillary.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10158
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:08 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Depends who you chat to. BBC were interviewing normal everyday Iraqis on the street and some said they couldn't wait for the US troops to leave and others said they feared the Militias will come back when the troops go . So I guess opinion is split.

If they hadn't been liberated then there wouldn't have been any militias.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:28 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
If they hadn't been liberated then there wouldn't have been any militias.

Bit tricky to argue with that one would think !! But????
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:32 pm

If the US of A is so "bad"...fine...we should drop all our commitments worldwide, bring everyone home, and tell the world to piss off. We'll see what your attitude is in 12 months.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10158
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:45 pm



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 22):
If the US of A is so "bad"...fine...we should drop all our commitments worldwide, bring everyone home, and tell the world to piss off. We'll see what your attitude is in 12 months.

There are some fights worth fighting but the last two US committments have been rather dubious in origin. Where is the US now that it's doing anything good?
 
michlis
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:13 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:50 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
Frankly, oil would have been a better reason than the actual reason we invaded which was sadly so that neocons could try and create a legacy for themselves.

More prattling from the left.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
There are some fights worth fighting but the last two US committments have been rather dubious in origin. Where is the US now that it's doing anything good?

Who gets to decide that a fight is a good one?
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5288
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:16 pm



Quoting Michlis (Reply 24):
More prattling from the left.

Responses like this are usually a good sign that the analysis is on target.
 
michlis
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:13 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:29 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
Responses like this are usually a good sign that the analysis is on target

That's a nice way to dsimiss it, but really it's an observation that an ideological extreme is taking advantage of a situation to blow off. If the inclusion of an ideological slur hadn't been part of the comment it probably would have found more respect and we wouldn't be having this side discussion.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5288
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:40 pm



Quoting Michlis (Reply 26):
If the inclusion of an ideological slur hadn't been part of the comment it probably would have found more respect and we wouldn't be having this side discussion.

I don't consider "neocon" to be an ideological slur. And I specifically used neocon, instead of simply saying conservatives, because I don't think it would be fair or accurate to paint all conservatives together in their zeal for war in Iraq.
 
michlis
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:13 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:43 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 27):
I don't consider "neocon" to be an ideological slur. And I specifically used neocon, instead of simply saying conservatives, because I don't think it would be fair or accurate to paint all conservatives together in their zeal for war in Iraq.



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
Responses like this are usually a good sign that the analysis is on target.

Need I say more?
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 10158
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:54 pm



Quoting Michlis (Reply 24):
Who gets to decide that a fight is a good one?

Not the US, whenever you guys do anything loads of innocent people get killed. The US only acts in it's own interest, they do not do anything for the greater good.
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:55 pm

I haven't been following this story as closely as I should have, but are they looking for regional companies (ARAMCO) to get the majority of the contracts or outside international groups.

Breaking off AP says the bidding for the contracts will be delayed by 1 day.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...ALeqM5gqXcwMK5Bnk1km7JoqsR6e0QsXvA
 
michlis
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:13 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:57 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 29):
Not the US, whenever you guys do anything loads of innocent people get killed. The US only acts in it's own interest, they do not do anything for the greater good.

Welcome to the real world! That's what countries do...they look out for their own interests. By your logic I suppose after that tsumani several years ago the US should have ignored the requests for aid and not let the US military get involved in the relief efforts.



{To clarify a statement made}

[Edited 2009-06-29 11:01:30]

[Edited 2009-06-29 11:02:11]
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4282
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:03 pm



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 22):
If the US of A is so "bad"...fine...we should drop all our commitments worldwide, bring everyone home, and tell the world to piss off. We'll see what your attitude is in 12 months.

I would hazard a guess that if the US backed away from Wilsonian foreign policy doctrine you would see:
a) a safer USA, less meddling makes you less of a target
b) more money at home to fix your problems (you do have problems right?)
c) a good portion of the world would say "see, we didn't need your meddling all along"

All of this is of course irrelevant because the US is already on the back foot so now more than ever you need to make yourselves seen abroad. The Chinese have you right where they want you (monstrous debt) and while the emerging monster economies are busily economically colonizing Africa for resources (often doing business with very bad people) it is now the Americans who are crying foul at somebody else's "me first, we do what we want" foreign policy. Quite poetic really.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 25):
Responses like this are usually a good sign that the analysis is on target.

Promote that man.

Quoting Michlis (Reply 28):
Need I say more?

Please do.

Quoting National757 (Reply 1):
Bet the Chinese make out like bandits.

No doubt. As I've said above they are busily buying up all kinds of resources all over the place.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 8):
Canadian companies are already getting involved in the Kurdish regions of Iraq.

Are Nexxen in on the action? I've not heard anything but given their affinity for Yemen they might be well suited to Iraq.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
It has been over 6 years since the US liberated Iraq.

I don't know that the total removal of security infrastructure, the growth of militias, curfews constitutes freedom.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
The US has gone through two energy crisis since then.

Who made these crises? Was that Saddam too? No that's right it was the corporations and governments of the US that allowed these crises to unfold.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 16):
In 2003, gasoline in the US cost about $1.25/gal. It went to well over $4.00/gal. last year, and helped to wreck the US economy.

Again, who's fault is it that for years you've strong-armed your way into paying a falsely low price on gas? $4.00/gal? Cry me a river, when I was living in the UK we seriously coughed up for gas but I later came to believe it was a responsible price. Last I checked the the UK high was almost $9/gallon.

YOWza
 
michlis
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:13 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:14 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 32):
I would hazard a guess that if the US backed away from Wilsonian foreign policy doctrine you would see:
a) a safer USA, less meddling makes you less of a target
b) more money at home to fix your problems (you do have problems right?)
c) a good portion of the world would say "see, we didn't need your meddling all along"

I believe "meddling" should also include all foreign aid.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 32):
Please do.

You get it...I don't need to say more.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 32):
I don't know that the total removal of security infrastructure, the growth of militias, curfews constitutes freedom.

Lol, "security infrastructure." That's priceless.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 32):
Who made these crises? Was that Saddam too? No that's right it was the corporations and governments of the US that allowed these crises to unfold.

Here we go again...
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:15 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
Woopee that's cheap fuel compared to what people in most other Western countries have to pay, I don't feel one little bit sorry for you. Prices in the US are to low for just about everything, the rest of the world has subsidised the US for far to long, it's time you guys actually paid what things are really worth.

Well considering you just said

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
That was you own fault, if US companies get the majority of contracts then it just proves what everyone said all along, the US went into Iraq to get their oil.

I think he got you there. If we wanted cheaper oil, why'd we go and do it that way? If we wanted cheap oil we would have invaded Israel (not for Israeli oil, but because a lot of OPEC nations would really really like that).

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 29):
Not the US, whenever you guys do anything loads of innocent people get killed. The US only acts in it's own interest, they do not do anything for the greater good.

WORLD WAR ONE *COUGH COUGH* WORLD WAR TWO *COUGH COUGH*

If my memory serves, weren't the Japanese pretty close to Australia and New Zeland at one point?

I don't like arguing like this, I like people. I never go out and attack (with words) other countries but will defend my own. There has been a lot of bad feeling between the US and a bunch of other countries, and I hope we can work together in the future for that. And I hope everyone here agrees on this statement instead of using it as a rebuttal.
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5288
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:18 pm



Quoting Michlis (Reply 28):
Need I say more?

I have no idea what you are trying to say. You don't really seem to have any ideas on the topic, just lots of one liners.

Quoting Michlis (Reply 33):
You get it...I don't need to say more.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 33):
Lol, "security infrastructure." That's priceless.



Quoting Michlis (Reply 33):
Here we go again...

 
michlis
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:13 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:22 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 35):
I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Sure you do...think about it for a moment.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 35):
You don't really seem to have any ideas on the topic, just lots of one liners

Oh, I have lots of ideas on the topic, but the "one-liners" seemed more appropriate.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:25 pm



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
There has been a lot of bad feeling between the US and a bunch of other countries, and I hope we can work together in the future for that. And I hope everyone here agrees on this statement instead of using it as a rebuttal.

Well I agree and Obama has done alot of bridge building despite how many of your right wing leaning Republican citizens say about him. Hopefully he will get a second term and after he goes someone equally as liberal will follow. I just fear that either next time or after him there might be another Bush who will drag your country back to being hated by the majority of the world which it was under Bush. All we can do is hope and pray it doesnt happen. It was great to see people cheering Obama when he came to Europe. Something not seen for many years for an American President.

Maybe the American public will realise that make peace not war actually makes their own homes and buildings safer. And that goes way back before the Iraq war.
 
michlis
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:13 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:35 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
Well I agree and Obama has done alot of bridge building despite how many of your right wing leaning Republican citizens say about him.

I'll probably get flamed for this but so be it. The biggest issue with the European nations had with the former president (and you will all of course deny this) is that he went over there and told the European nations what their obligation were in terms of the world events whether it be Afganistan, Iraq, etc. and the European nations got all upset...because he was right and because he wouldn't take no for an answer. Now, when the President went over he told the European nations basically the same thing, except that when the leaders of the European nations told him no he was basically concilitory and salvaged what public relations he could to make it look like a success. Nothing has changed since the last administration except that this adminstration is willing to take no for an answer.

[Edited 2009-06-29 11:36:59]
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:55 pm



Quoting Michlis (Reply 38):
I'll probably get flamed for this but so be it. The biggest issue with the European nations had with the former president (and you will all of course deny this) is that he went over there and told the European nations what their obligation were in terms of the world events

That has nothing to do with most European objections to your last administration. The difference is that the current Obama administration is totally different and understands international politics alot more than Mr Bush ever did.

And whilst you say Mr Bush came over to tell the Europeans what their obligations were maybe Europe should have been alot more clear on what Americas ''moral'' obligations were. But then the results of your elections came in and you got a reprieve.

Dont know why you think you would get flamed for saying your opinion. What Im saying is dont throw away the clean slate that your country has been given.
 
mham001
Posts: 4349
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:57 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
Woopee that's cheap fuel compared to what people in most other Western countries have to pay, I don't feel one little bit sorry for you. Prices in the US are to low for just about everything, the rest of the world has subsidised the US for far to long, it's time you guys actually paid what things are really worth.

Oh crap. The fact is you pay the exact same amount of money for your oil. Your high prices come directly from your willingness to allow your politicians to pick your pockets with additional taxes. This is not the fault of the US and you can thank the US for historically protecting oil interests with its blood that have kept worldwide oil as low as its been - to your benefit. How do you turn this into the world "subsidizing" the US?
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:16 pm



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 40):
Your high prices come directly from your willingness to allow your politicians to pick your pockets with additional taxes

Well we are ripped of by the governments when it comes to Petrol and Heating Oil.

UK for example :

If a litre of unleaded cost 93p, it would be split in the following way:

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


I think there is a happy medium though and higher taxes should be paid by cars over 2L who consume more petrol. America needs to take a big step to convert to more fuel efficient cars which cause less damage to the planet.
 
windy95
Posts: 2660
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:11 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:41 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 41):
America needs to take a big step to convert to more fuel efficient cars which cause less damage to the planet.

No we do not. We have and need to keep the freedom to drive what we want and can afford.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 39):
Obama administration is totally different and understands international politics alot more than Mr Bush ever did.

Your opinion

Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
All we can do is hope and pray it doesnt happen.

If the radical left hates whoever is President then he must be doing a good job. Do you really think that most of America cares what Europe does or think we should do?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 37):
Maybe the American public will realise that make peace not war actually makes their own homes and buildings safer. And that goes way back before the Iraq war

All I know is that our homes and buildings had been safe for about 150 years since the civil war until we had 8 years of Slick Willy and then Bam. How did his foreign relations do. Every one liked him but we kept getting bombed. So much for that theory

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 29):
Not the US, whenever you guys do anything loads of innocent people get killed. The US only acts in it's own interest, they do not do anything for the greater good.



Quoting YOWza (Reply 32):
don't know that the total removal of security infrastructure, the growth of militias, curfews constitutes freedom.

Security infrastructure like the one that gassed the Kurds. Or allowed Saddams son's to rape and torture. Or the one that tortured it's Soccer players for not playing well. And instead of Militias you had the Republican Guard suppressing the people. And they never had curfews or limits on freedom under Saddam. You are right it was utopia back then.
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:57 pm



Quoting Windy95 (Reply 42):
We have and need to keep the freedom to drive what we want and can afford.

Fine but if you pollute the planet more you must pay more.

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 42):
Your opinion

Indeed it is . And you are entitled to yours.

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 42):
Do you really think that most of America cares what Europe does or think we should do?

Well the recent election showed that the majority of people that voted do care and want change. That gives us all some hope.
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:15 pm

I'm split on this one. On the one hand, the US did invest a lot of money and lives in removing Saddam, and it would be only fair that we reaped some of the benefits of it. But on the other hand, we weren't really invited (of course, how could we have been?), and to walk into a country, remove one (bad) government, install another (not great, but better) government, and then expect to be compensated when the country in question never really had a say in the matter isn't very ethical, and borders on extortion (though I doubt we'll ever get the money we put into Iraq back).

Ultimately, it's the call of the Iraqis. If they choose to give the contracts to US companies, fine. If not, then that's their choice, and I won't begrudge them for it.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
If they hadn't been liberated then there wouldn't have been any militias.

True, but there still would have been Saddam's secret police. You can debate whether you'd rather have them or the militias until you're blue in the face, but I know I wouldn't want to live with either of them. So let's not pretend that everything would have been nice and happy in Iraq had the US not invaded.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):

There are some fights worth fighting but the last two US committments have been rather dubious in origin.

I'll give you Iraq. What's the other one?

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 42):
All I know is that our homes and buildings had been safe for about 150 years since the civil war until we had 8 years of Slick Willy and then Bam. How did his foreign relations do. Every one liked him but we kept getting bombed. So much for that theory

Correlation does not imply causation. Nice try, but next time think about the other things going on the world at that time that might have changed the political dynamic a bit, besides the people you hate. Like the demise of a global superpower, for instance.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:16 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 43):
Well the recent election showed that the majority of people that voted do care and want change. That gives us all some hope.

...or they didn't like McCain...

American politics aren't like European politics. We have 2 choices (I'm not counting stupid parties like the green party and all). If the split is about 50/50 (which it usually is) a candidate that doesn't quite measure up can sway a few percentage points to the other side. We did elect President Bush 2 times you know. And most Americans wanting change... I don't know... even a lot of Democrats are getting a little scared of this "National Healthcare"... trust me, I live here  Smile
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:20 pm



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 45):
trust me, I live here

Yeah but there are millions of Americans so if I were to take your word for it I wouldnt be getting an even balance of opinion.  Wink  Big grin
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:22 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 46):
Yeah but there are millions of Americans so if I were to take your word for it I wouldnt be getting an even balance of opinion. Wink Big grin

Touche  Smile

Well I think we can all agree... Planes are awesome!
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:23 pm



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 45):
We have 2 choices (I'm not counting stupid parties like the green party and all).

Careful. Those "stupid" 3rd parties may be the best hope of cleaning up the mess that is Washington.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
User avatar
OA260
Topic Author
Posts: 21320
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: The Race For Iraq's Oil...Will America Clean Up?

Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:28 pm



Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
Well I think we can all agree... Planes are awesome!

Yeah I love Airbus  duck   Big grin

In all serious though there are plenty of things I do like about America even though it sometimes sounds like I am slagging you off too much. You have some great Cities and people and the shopping is always good. Texas is my fav place . Ironic I know.  Smile

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ha763 and 12 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos