Yellowstone
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Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:31 pm

Pew Research came out with a poll recently discussing issues of science and technology in the US, and comparing the results from a general sample of the US population with a sample from the membership of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the nation's largest general scientific society. The results of the political affiliation question were interesting, I thought. The general public is 35 percent Democrat, 34 percent Independent, and 23 percent Republican. Scientists, on the other hand, are 55 percent Democrat, 32 percent Independent, and only 6 percent Republican.

Similarly, a full 52 percent of scientists consider themselves liberal, compared to just 20 percent of the general public. On the conservative side, where the general public scores 37 percent, just 9 percent of scientists label themselves as such.

I'm reminded of the Stephen Colbert quote about truth having a well-known liberal bias.  Smile But more seriously, Republicans, this is what happens when your party associates with those who deny that life evolved through natural processes (87 percent of scientists agree) and that human activity is warming the earth (84 percent of scientists agree). Bash scientists enough, and they'll take their ball and go home.

http://people-press.org/report/528/
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DocLightning
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:50 pm

Science has a long history of battling denial, whether it was gravity, basics of solar system mechanics, evolution, relativity, or quantum mechanics.

The "Republicans" of whom you speak have always existed. Sometimes they were called the Catholic Church. At other times they were called various governments.

This doesn't make Republicans bad. But it does not bode well for the platform of the party to express views that turn off so many scientists.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:56 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):
Similarly, a full 52 percent of scientists consider themselves liberal, compared to just 20 percent of the general public. On the conservative side, where the general public scores 37 percent, just 9 percent of scientists label themselves as such.

Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country? These types of numbers are similar to those of College Professors, who don't live in the real world, either.
 
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:00 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country? These types of numbers are similar to those of College Professors, who don't live in the real world, either.

Or it could mean that the "rest of the country" is out of step with science, and the numerous scientific (and other) advances that are produced by college faculty research.

I'm not sure why the scientific community should be in step with the rest of the country, as such. Science is about asking questions and investigating the answers. We shouldn't limit the questions they can ask.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:37 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):

My guess is that there were more Republican scientist 70 years ago when most of their party's strength was in the North. Back then you had a lot more educated intellectuals in the Republican party. Today it's been reduced to a fundamentalist Christian extremist party and their strength now is the Deep South. Basically the Republicans today are the old Southern Dixiecrats of yesteryear.
You won't find scientist in the backwoods of the south. Science is often at odds with their interpretations of their Bible. Challenging and questioning the Bible would mean getting struck down by lightning and going to hell.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country?

"Out of step" in the sense that most people in the rest of the country can't solve complex equations in Physics, Advanced math, Chemistry and Biology so in that sense, you are right that they are "out of step".
I am glad there are scientist out there that can figure this stuff out. Humankind has benefited tremendously from their findings.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 3):
Or it could mean that the "rest of the country" is out of step with science, and the numerous scientific (and other) advances that are produced by college faculty research.

 checkmark 

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 3):
I'm not sure why the scientific community should be in step with the rest of the country, as such. Science is about asking questions and investigating the answers. We shouldn't limit the questions they can ask.

 checkmark 

The Republicans would rather us just listen and follow what Pastors & bosses tell us to do.

Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):
and only 6 percent Republican.

...and my guess is that these are the scientist that;
1) just want a tax break, or
2) Fake scientist from BJU, Oral Roberts or Liberty that are really anti-scientist that try to claim that Creationism is scientific.
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Mir
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:04 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country?

Yeah, because what we really want is to have scientists devoting their resources to proving things that most of the country think are true.  Yeah sure

Science isn't supposed to be popular.

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DocLightning
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:55 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 5):

Science isn't supposed to be popular.

And to be a scientist, you need a certain mindset. You have NO idea what you're going to discover. You might stumble across the next penicillin or electron, or you might simply work your life in a quiet lab publishing your findings as a footnote in scientific history.

It'd be far simpler if it were easier to "prove" things. When it comes to theories about life and the Universe as a whole, we don't have a lot of comparison, so we have to go with what we've got.

It's not like that. People want the scientists to never be wrong, to never discover new evidence. That's not science. That's dogma.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:56 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
...and my guess is that these are the scientist that;
1) just want a tax break, or
2) Fake scientist from BJU, Oral Roberts or Liberty that are really anti-scientist that try to claim that Creationism is scientific.

Or they're the remnants of the group of intelligent Republicans you mention at the beginning of your post.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
I am glad there are scientist out there that can figure this stuff out. Humankind has benefited tremendously from their findings.

It's not just what science has discovered, but the scientific mode of thinking in general. You don't have to be a trained academic scientist to apply the basic principle of evaluating claims based on the gathering of empirical evidence.
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TheCol
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:59 am

I think most of you are missing, or conveniently omitting, one important factor that weighs into the political affiliations of almost every organized group of individuals on planet Earth:

 dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign 

Last time I checked, the Democrats have promised to be far more financially committed to the Scientific community as of late. On the other hand, the Republicans are more concerned about other certain existing industries that could benefit from a handout or two (or 3 or 4, etc.). Therefore, the American Association for the Advancement of Science might be more inclined to sway opinion in the favor of the Democrats.

As for these guys:

Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):
32 percent Independent

They probably don't give a crap about the bureaucratic BS.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:13 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
And to be a scientist, you need a certain mindset. You have NO idea what you're going to discover. You might stumble across the next penicillin or electron, or you might simply work your life in a quiet lab publishing your findings as a footnote in scientific history.

Reminds me of a bit of history I was reading about on Wikipedia. Throughout the 1800s and early 1900s, one of the main targets of chemists was the synthesis of quinine (finally achieved in 1944 by Woodward and Doering). In 1856, an 18-year-old chemistry student was told by his chemistry professor to try a few experiments that might lead to a synthesis of quinine. He planned to start with a compound called N-allyl toluidine (C10 H13 N), under the logic that two molecules of that plus one and a half molecules of oxygen (O2) would give one molecule of quinine (C20 H24 N2 O2) plus a molecule of water (H2 O). This, as we know today, is horrible chemistry, as it completely ignores the connectivity of the atoms. No chemist would ever go about a synthesis in that fashion anymore. However, this kid didn't know any better, so he ran the reaction, and wound up with a bunch of black crap in the bottom of his flask--an all-too-common occurrence in experimental chemistry. When he went to wash his flask with ethanol, he found something interesting...

The black crap? Mauveine, the first ever synthetic dye. The chemistry student? William Perkin, who built on his discovery to invent the field of industrial chemistry.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 8):
Last time I checked, the Democrats have promised to be far more financially committed to the Scientific community as of late. On the other hand, the Republicans are more concerned about other certain existing industries that could benefit from a handout or two (or 3 or 4, etc.)

That doesn't answer the question of why Democrats are more willing to fund scientific research than Republicans.
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Pyrex
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:55 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):
those who deny that life evolved through natural processes (87 percent of scientists agree)

More shocking than that: you actually mean 13% of "scientists" DON'T?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
...and my guess is that these are the scientist that;
1) just want a tax break, or
2) Fake scientist from BJU, Oral Roberts or Liberty that are really anti-scientist that try to claim that Creationism is scientific.

3) Have actually worked in the real world instead of just mooching off academia all their lives and know how hard it is to make a buck.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 9):
That doesn't answer the question of why Democrats are more willing to fund scientific research than Republicans.

Because they don't care who is going to pay for it later?
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:03 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):

Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country? These types of numbers are similar to those of College Professors, who don't live in the real world, either.

Oh really, do tell us what the 'real world' is...  Yeah sure
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:08 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 10):

Interesting post. This is an interesting interview with Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google, about the company's/industry's political leanings (largely composed of scientists and engineers, of course):

http://www.foxbusiness.com/search-re...20828759/google-ceo-one-on-one.htm

Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. . . government out of business/bedroom. . .largely more libertarian

(though he is an Obama supporter)

[Edited 2009-07-10 20:10:13]
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:39 am

Considering that most scientists have to leech off the public dole to finance their research and lifestyles, it isn't surprising that they lean to the party that gives them public funds.

If they where any good they would be in the private sector.

No doubt the privately employed scientists tend to run more republican.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:46 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):

If they where any good they would be in the private sector.

No doubt the privately employed scientists tend to run more republican.

Anything to back that up, or just the usual?
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Longhornmaniac
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:53 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
If they where any good they would be in the private sector.

Is this to imply that scientists that benefit from public funds (like, for example, high profile scientists at public research institutions across the U.S.), are not good scientists?

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
No doubt the privately employed scientists tend to run more republican.

No doubt? And your basing that solely off the fact that they aren't receiving public funds (even though they probably are, actually...lots of public grant money to be had)? Pretty ridiculous assertion.

Have you considered it might be because one of the two political parties (I'll give you a hint: not REPUBLICAN) has embraced science as an important part of our existence, and has determined that is a good foundation from which to launch policy, while the other hasn't?

 twocents 

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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:13 am



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 10):
3) Have actually worked in the real world instead of just mooching off academia all their lives and know how hard it is to make a buck.

Do you have any idea what a scientist's life is like? I work in a lab, and I'd guess the grad students there probably work 65 or 70 hours a week in lab. My professor probably spends about that amount of time there as well, not counting travel, conferences, intellectual work at home, etc.

Just because scientists work with their brains rather than their hands doesn't mean their work is any less hard.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 10):
More shocking than that: you actually mean 13% of "scientists" DON'T?

I think that the question was worded such that that 13 percent could include those who believe that evolution exists, but that it is steered by God rather than arising from random mutation and natural selection. For comparison, only 32 percent of the general public agreed with the statement on evolution.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 10):
Because they don't care who is going to pay for it later?

I'm thinking it's more because liberals look forward, and anticipate that scientific research will bring about future benefits for mankind. Scientific progress pays for itself many times over, if you're willing to be a bit patient.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:16 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 16):
Just because scientists work with their brains rather than their hands doesn't mean their work is any less hard.

I didn't say they didn't work hard. I just said they never had to see returns on the money invested in their work so think money just falls off a tree. And I am not making this up, by the way, I know plenty of scientists in academia who think government's obligation is just to fund the particular piece of research they are doing no matter what and then just shudder at the thought of someone taking that technology and making a product that actually turns a profit.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:33 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 3):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country? These types of numbers are similar to those of College Professors, who don't live in the real world, either.

Or it could mean that the "rest of the country" is out of step with science, and the numerous scientific (and other) advances that are produced by college faculty research.

You have got to be kidding. Is that the answer you spent any time on thinking about?

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 3):
I'm not sure why the scientific community should be in step with the rest of the country, as such. Science is about asking questions and investigating the answers. We shouldn't limit the questions they can ask.

Now, that one is well thought out. I agree that scientists shouldn't limit the questions they can ask. But, when you allow your own personal politics to get in the way of your research, then your research is slanted towards that position.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
My guess is that there were more Republican scientist 70 years ago when most of their party's strength was in the North. Back then you had a lot more educated intellectuals in the Republican party. Today it's been reduced to a fundamentalist Christian extremist party and their strength now is the Deep South. Basically the Republicans today are the old Southern Dixiecrats of yesteryear.
You won't find scientist in the backwoods of the south. Science is often at odds with their interpretations of their Bible. Challenging and questioning the Bible would mean getting struck down by lightning and going to hell.

May God have mercy on your soul, my son. I am so sorry that southern big cities (Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, etc.) are not as "sophisticated" as San Francisco is.

BTW, did you know that Texas A&M, Georgia Tech, TCU, and Baylor (oh no, Christian schools) crank out just as many scinentists as MIT and CalTech does?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
"Out of step" in the sense that most people in the rest of the country can't solve complex equations in Physics, Advanced math, Chemistry and Biology so in that sense, you are right that they are "out of step".
I am glad there are scientist out there that can figure this stuff out. Humankind has benefited tremendously from their findings.

Nor can a scientist do the things I have done in my life time without training. BTW, I can do Advanced Math, and understand Physics, but that doesn't make me a scientist. All scientists were trained to do what they do, just like everyone else, including you, my friend.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
The Republicans would rather us just listen and follow what Pastors & bosses tell us to do.

As opposed to blindly following union thugs, and not questioning the "wisedome" of all politicians.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):
and only 6 percent Republican.

...and my guess is that these are the scientist that;
1) just want a tax break, or
2) Fake scientist from BJU, Oral Roberts or Liberty that are really anti-scientist that try to claim that Creationism is scientific.

You know this as fact, how? Prove it.

Could it be these scientists see a funding sourse and that is why they are mostly Democrat/liberal?

Always follow the money. That will usually get you your answer to almost anything.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 11):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):

Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country? These types of numbers are similar to those of College Professors, who don't live in the real world, either.

Oh really, do tell us what the 'real world' is...

It is nothing like what you learned in college, maybe it is best you ask your Dad those questions. You may be to young to understand it yourself..
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:33 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
I just said they never had to see returns on the money invested in their work so think money just falls off a tree.

Not quite true, at least in my experience with chemistry. The more results you get and papers you publish, the more likely you are to get a) tenure and b) future grants. Plus, many if not most scientists think that knowledge is valuable in and of itself, even if it one can't buy or sell it. That may account for your scientist friends who object to their discoveries being used to make a profit--they want the knowledge they create to benefit all mankind, not just those who can afford it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
But, when you allow your own personal politics to get in the way of your research, then your research is slanted towards that position.

I am not sure how olefin metathesis, or Darwinian evolution, or particle physics, or any of countless other scientific topics can be affected by political views. There are a few scientific topics that have become politicized, but the vast majority aren't.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
It is nothing like what you learned in college, maybe it is best you ask your Dad those questions. You may be to young to understand it yourself..

Enough with the ageist crap, KC. If there's something incorrect with his views, tell him what it is. The fact that you have to resort to "oh, well, you wouldn't understand" shows me that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
BTW, did you know that Texas A&M, Georgia Tech, TCU, and Baylor (oh no, Christian schools) crank out just as many scinentists as MIT and CalTech does?

Let's look at the US News and World Report rankings, shall we? In each science field, here's the top-ranked Southern schools:
Chemistry: Texas, #12; UNC Chapel Hill, #16; Texas A&M, #22
Physics: Texas, #16; Duke, #29; Rice, #29
Biology: Duke, #12; Texas Southwestern Medical Center, #21; Texas, #23
Mathematics: Texas, #14; Duke, #21, Rice, #28
Computer Science: Georgia Tech, #9; Texas, #9; Duke, #20
Earth Sciences: Texas, #9; Rice, #25; Virginia Tech, #28

So yes, there are science programs at Southern universities, but for the most part they're not top tier programs. Texas seems to head the list, but Austin is well known as a liberal pocket within the state. And with the exception of Georgia Tech, none of the schools listed above is in the Deep South.
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AGM100
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:46 pm

Ahh ya they just claim to be scientist to get the free grant money ,,, hand outs !! Big grin

I would tend to agree with this only from my collegiate experience... the professors and academia were majority liberal. Inside their world ..where it is all idealistic and seems to make sense in the debate class . The problem comes in when you have to make a living.

I had professors who were communists. They were good people but looking at communism "on paper" so to speak they agreed completely with its promise of the commune taking care of everyone. To a academic it is obvious that it is the best possible way .. all of the dots line up. The scientific formula does not equate to free market ideas ..it is full of risks and it is not something that can be debated easily.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:24 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
You have got to be kidding. Is that the answer you spent any time on thinking about?

Ah, so you can make a statement like that, but I can't! Good to know.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
But, when you allow your own personal politics to get in the way of your research, then your research is slanted towards that position.

Where was it mentioned that personal politics was getting in the way of research?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):

I didn't say they didn't work hard. I just said they never had to see returns on the money invested in their work so think money just falls off a tree. And I am not making this up, by the way, I know plenty of scientists in academia who think government's obligation is just to fund the particular piece of research they are doing no matter what and then just shudder at the thought of someone taking that technology and making a product that actually turns a profit.

Scientists at universities and such have to fund their projects (same as companies do). They happen to get the money by applying for grants and such. The government provides some grants. What exactly is the problem there? The scientists are just being opportunistic, same as any good capitalist.
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Longhornmaniac
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:45 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Texas A&M

One of the aforementioned PUBLIC research institutions. Politically, it is a conservative university, but not a Christian school.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Georgia Tech

Another public school.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
oh no, Christian schools

And to be affiliated with a Christian denomination means what, exactly? There are lots of Christian-affiliated schools that lean left, and in many cases, way left.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 20):
Inside their world ..where it is all idealistic and seems to make sense in the debate class . The problem comes in when you have to make a living.

That's two people...check that, three, in this thread now saying professors and scientists don't live in the real world. Last time I checked, scientists were every bit in the real world as you, Pyrex, and KC135TopBoom. Working hard day in, day out, to support their family and have a decent living.

You guys act like money is just thrown at scientists, without any work. I'd go so far as to venture none of y'all have spent ANY time in a scientific research lab, to see scientists busting their asses to write a research proposal, that requires days, often weeks, of work with absolutely no guarantee of receiving a dime. So, unfortunately for you guys, it's not the luxury life you think it is.

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Superfly
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:22 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Considering that most scientists have to leech off the public dole to finance their research and lifestyles, it isn't surprising that they lean to the party that gives them public funds.

Actually they aren't "mooching" off the government. Our government funds research so we can continue to be on the leading edge in technology, medicine, etc.
Otherwise, we'd be a backwards theocracy much like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.


Keep in mind, it was a Republican that wanted to establish a federal Department of Science. That was former Congressman Robert Walker (R-PA). He retired from Congress in 1996. He was one of the last breed of northeastern Republicans that were fiscally conservative but in favor of scientific research. He left the congress that was under the leadership of Gingrich/DeLay/Army/Lott/Nickels... all from the south and very right-wing.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 22):
Last time I checked, scientists were every bit in the real world as you, Pyrex, and KC135TopBoom. Working hard day in, day out, to support their family and have a decent living.

 checkmark 
Very true.
I had a roommate who did scientific research down at Stanford University. She certainly wasn't rich if she had to share a house with me and two others.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 22):
You guys act like money is just thrown at scientists, without any work. I'd go so far as to venture none of y'all have spent ANY time in a scientific research lab, to see scientists busting their asses to write a research proposal, that requires days, often weeks, of work with absolutely no guarantee of receiving a dime. So, unfortunately for you guys, it's not the luxury life you think it is.

Again, very true!
She'd work very long hours and sometimes slept overnight at the lab. Pay was very low considering the hard work they do.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for scientist and the work they do. I certainly couldn't do it or adjust my life to do that sort of research.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 19):
Texas seems to head the list, but Austin is well known as a liberal pocket within the state. And with the exception of Georgia Tech, none of the schools listed above is in the Deep South.

Very true.
Also worth noting, Georgia Tech is in Atlanta which is very Democratic.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
May God have mercy on your soul, my son.

Does that mean I am at risk for getting struck by lightning?  Silly

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
I am so sorry that southern big cities (Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, etc.) are not as "sophisticated" as San Francisco is.

Interesting you chose the 'cities' in the south that lean Democratic. The south is more rural than the north. It's no secret that the south does not have a culture of education. The most elite Universities are in the north. Particularly New England. Read more about that in reply #19.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
BTW, I can do Advanced Math, and understand Physics, but that doesn't make me a scientist.

I am learning that myself and I am not trying to be a scientist. I do know that some of their research may require some advance math & science. I was just giving an example.
Keep in mind, many people are able to compartmentalize their brains. Meaning that they can be a genius in some areas but can be completely clueless in others. There are some doctors and lawyers that are very smart but chose to belong to religions that have ridiculous far-fetched beliefs. Hell I avoid driving in Berkeley because those smart students & faculty seem traumatized by traffic signals and moving vehicles. Worst of all, they don't look both ways before they J-walk which is very dangerous.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
As opposed to blindly following union thugs

What science union are you speaking of?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
, and not questioning the "wisedome" of all politicians.

Scientist routinely find things that may conflict with politics.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
You know this as fact, how? Prove it.

If you re-read my post, I prefaced my statement with "....and my guess is that..."
Just a "guess" and I gave a good reason from the very get-go which is a fact.
Go ahead a re-read.  Smile
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:40 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):
Considering that most scientists have to leech off the public dole to finance their research and lifestyles, it isn't surprising that they lean to the party that gives them public funds.

If they where any good they would be in the private sector.

The private sector used to fund basic research. Bell Laboratories was an example.

However, if I want to do a study on the effect of a certain diet on a given disease, who is going to fund that? The private sector? Who will make money off the findings? That's why government funding is necessary. When it comes to technological advancement, the private sector is fantastic. When it comes to the search for truth, well...the private sector is lacking.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:22 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Thread starter):
Scientists, on the other hand, are 55 percent Democrat, 32 percent Independent, and only 6 percent Republican.

Clearly Math was not the strong point of this study.

The options were:
Republican
Democrat
Independent
Other/None

For the Public:
Republican: 23%
Democrat: 35%
Independent: 34%
Other/None: 4%
Now at my school, 23% + 35% + 34% + 4% = 96%

For the Scientists:
Republican: 6%
Democrat: 55%
Independent: 32%
Other/None: 4%
Again at my school, 6% + 55% + 32% + 4% = 97%

Now I'm smart enough to realize these missing percentages are not enough to swing the given numbers, but it does make me wonder if the same people running these numbers were the same clowns who were counting the votes in Miami-Dade & West Palm County in 2000. But good enough to cause me to question the rest of the study, when these people can't even add.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 14):

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):

If they where any good they would be in the private sector.

No doubt the privately employed scientists tend to run more republican.

Anything to back that up, or just the usual?

Why do quote L-188 but not Superfly and ask him the same question regarding his statements in Reply 4?  confused 

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):

My guess is that there were more Republican scientist 70 years ago when most of their party's strength was in the North. Back then you had a lot more educated intellectuals in the Republican party. Today it's been reduced to a fundamentalist Christian extremist party and their strength now is the Deep South. Basically the Republicans today are the old Southern Dixiecrats of yesteryear.
You won't find scientist in the backwoods of the south. Science is often at odds with their interpretations of their Bible. Challenging and questioning the Bible would mean getting struck down by lightning and going to hell.

'Fly, you know I respect you, but I'm so sick of hearing and reading the stereotypes on the South. Have I met people in the South who meet the description that you display? Of course. I've lived in Texas, Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina for all 22 years I've been alive, and I can say that I've met at least one person to know where every stereotype in the South comes from. But not everyone in the South is this way.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 20):
I had professors who were communists. They were good people but looking at communism "on paper" so to speak they agreed completely with its promise of the commune taking care of everyone. To a academic it is obvious that it is the best possible way .. all of the dots line up. The scientific formula does not equate to free market ideas ..it is full of risks and it is not something that can be debated easily.

If I ever get a professor who truly preaches communism, I will ask them if they plan to share everyone else's grade in the class with me, because obviously that's better for the class as a whole. The people who get As and Bs can share those who Cs, Ds, and Fs, and thus everybody passes, and thus thats good for "everybody". I bet that system would look really good on paper too.  rotfl   biggrin 
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:31 am



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 3):
I'm not sure why the scientific community should be in step with the rest of the country, as such. Science is about asking questions and investigating the answers.

And conservatism is about keeping the future from appearing faster, by it's very nature. Conservatism, by it's very nature, doesn't like to ask questions-it wants what is know to be accepted as Gospel, and is relutant to change anything.

That's why so few conservatives are scientists-it smply is not what conservatism is about in the modern world. They want to keep things in the past, not charge into the future. That is why they deny and fight getting away from oil, or conserving (which, ironically is part of the word "conservative) our resources to help with the future. They don't want to look into the future-they want us to live in the past.

Left to conservatism, we might have been singing "God Save the Queen" for many more years than we did in the states; "Dixie" would have been the national anthem, and slavery probably wouldn't have died until the turn of the 20th century.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:45 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
And conservatism is about keeping the future from appearing faster, by it's very nature. Conservatism, by it's very nature, doesn't like to ask questions-it wants what is know to be accepted as Gospel, and is relutant to change anything.

Which would explain why most of the liberals I know are only open minded to your views if they happen to agree with theirs, and thus doesn't make them any different from most conservatives.  scratchchin 
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:48 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 27):
Which would explain why most of the liberals I know are only open minded to your views if they happen to agree with theirs, and thus doesn't make them any different from most conservatives

Actually, by nature, liberalism is more open-minded, period, than conservatism, FDJ. You'll find some on the fringes-on both sides-completely closed to the other. But on average, libaralism is a more inquisitve, forward-looking idealism. Conservatism is more tethered to "tradition" and the past. In and of themselves, neither one is a problem. Just in extremes. Both have their place in our society.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:52 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Also worth noting, Georgia Tech is in Atlanta which is very Democratic.

GT has plenty of conservative students and faculty. I'd say we're a pretty mixed campus politically, though as a voting precinct GT has a Democratic tilt (I assume people who live off-campus but near Tech vote at the university).

I don't understand why the political inclination of scientists is noteworthy. I suppose a number of factors (age and favorable funding come to mind) play a part in it.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:53 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 25):
'Fly, you know I respect you, but I'm so sick of hearing and reading the stereotypes on the South. Have I met people in the South who meet the description that you display? Of course. I've lived in Texas, Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina for all 22 years I've been alive, and I can say that I've met at least one person to know where every stereotype in the South comes from. But not everyone in the South is this way.

I respect you too FlyDeltaJets87. I wasn't referring to you personally and I know there are lots of smart southerners as well. I even point that out in this thread.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 25):
If I ever get a professor who truly preaches communism,

Conservatives always talk about these Communist college professors and I've never had one.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:58 am



Quoting N867DA (Reply 29):
I don't understand why the political inclination of scientists is noteworthy. I suppose a number of factors (age and favorable funding come to mind) play a part in it.

Based on basic ideology, I think it makes sense. Liberals, by the nature of the ideology, question the status quo more, while conservatism tries to preserve it more. Science, by it's nature, questions the status quo. Conversely, fundamentalist religion, which a large segment of the GOP embraces, tries to preserve the status quo.

I think that is one reason why you had the last adminstration, conservative in nature, tend to trust fundamentalist religious views on things (like going to Africa and telling the continenta not to have sex) far more than science.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:34 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 20):


I had professors who were communists.

Where'd YOU go to college? At my institution, our President had been in the Hitler Youth (he was 6-8) but I've never come across a Communist professor in my academic journeys.

And I had some STRANGE profs. One professor of Classics (who did a class called "Gender, Violence, and the Body in Ancient Greece and Rome") had a pencil sharpener that looked like the head of a penis sticking up out of her desk. You put the pencil in the tip...

...But I never had a Communist.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:32 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 25):
Now I'm smart enough to realize these missing percentages are not enough to swing the given numbers, but it does make me wonder if the same people running these numbers were the same clowns who were counting the votes in Miami-Dade & West Palm County in 2000. But good enough to cause me to question the rest of the study, when these people can't even add.

I'd have to say that most of the studies I've ever seen did not add up to 100%. Look at any presidential election.

For example, a brief search tells me that in 2008, Obama got 52.9% of the popular vote, while McCain got 45.7%. That adds up to 98.6%.

Why bother listing the other 1.4% of votes, for candidates who don't really matter?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
And conservatism is about keeping the future from appearing faster, by it's very nature. Conservatism, by it's very nature, doesn't like to ask questions-it wants what is know to be accepted as Gospel, and is relutant to change anything.

I'm not particularly interested in a liberal-vs-conservative or Republican-vs-Democrat argument, hence why I simply stated what science is about. At the end of the day, science knows no political boundaries.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:16 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):

You won't find scientist in the backwoods of the south. Science is often at odds with their interpretations of their Bible. Challenging and questioning the Bible would mean getting struck down by lightning and going to hell.

Bashing the south again?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):

...and my guess is that these are the scientist that;
1) just want a tax break, or
2) Fake scientist from BJU, Oral Roberts or Liberty that are really anti-scientist that try to claim that Creationism is scientific.

Thats rediculous.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):

Very true.
Also worth noting, Georgia Tech is in Atlanta which is very Democratic.

Wrong. INNER-city Atlanta is very democratic, while the outlying suburbs are very republican.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):

Interesting you chose the 'cities' in the south that lean Democratic. The south is more rural than the north. It's no secret that the south does not have a culture of education. The most elite Universities are in the north. Particularly New England. Read more about that in reply #19.

If you look at nuclear engineering, 4 of the top 10 are in the south.

Biomedical engineering, 3 of the top 10 (4 if you count Maryland).

However, those points do not really matter. Schools in the northeast were founded when the south was still largely rural. The tech universities in California were strengthened during WW2 and the Cold War.

An "elite" school is simply a name. I am sure that there are many smaller, mostly unknown universities that would rival Harvard in quality of education yet simply lack the name recognition.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:26 am



Quoting Ual777 (Reply 34):
Bashing the south again?

Yep.  Smile

Quoting Ual777 (Reply 34):
Wrong. INNER-city Atlanta is very democratic,

Which is where Georgia Tech is located.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:29 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):

Which is where Georgia Tech is located.

What does that have to do with it? Its near the hood so its a democratic leaning university??
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:39 am



Quoting Ual777 (Reply 36):
What does that have to do with it?

No. You need to re-read my earlier post.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:41 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 37):

No. You need to re-read my earlier post.

I read your post. Inner-city Atlanta is democratic. However, outside of the city (i.e. the suburbs) it is very republican. People commute into the city to work.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:45 am



Quoting Ual777 (Reply 38):
I read your post. Inner-city Atlanta is democratic. However, outside of the city (i.e. the suburbs) it is very republican. People commute into the city to work.

Duh, everybody knows that.
Not sure what you are getting so defensive about.
I just simply gave examples as to why Scientist lean Democratic in this day & age. That has not always been the case.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:08 am

Most basic research is being done at government funded institutions (universities, organsations like NASA, CERN, ESA, DESY etc.). Very few companies still carry out basic research today, since one never knows if this research will yield something, which can be converted into a product.
Applied research on the other hand is the domain of the industry, since management usually wants to have saleable results within latest a few years time.

Jan
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:52 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Well, doesn't this show how these guys are really out of step with the rest of the country? These types of numbers are similar to those of College Professors, who don't live in the real world, either.

Ah, yes, I remember when I was but a youth and a young fellow named Galileo was so out of step with the country's opinions that he thought the sun went around the earth!!?! Laughable really. He obviously should have listened to all my good neighbors, the "majority" who knew better and were in step with the times.

Similarly, all those college professors who actually spend their years studying history, etc., obviously know much less and are out of step on politics from those wiser sages who get their news from the tabloids and can't find the countries they want to bomb on a map...

 sarcastic 
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republic

Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:46 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 25):
Clearly Math was not the strong point of this study.

The options were:
Republican
Democrat
Independent
Other/None

And not everybody wants to disclose his/her political convictions in a poll at all, hence a number of people missing from these categories (even "Other/None" is a declaration of affiliation, even if a negative one). But good luck with your further attempts to make science look bad...!  mischievous 
 
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:48 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 21):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
But, when you allow your own personal politics to get in the way of your research, then your research is slanted towards that position.

Where was it mentioned that personal politics was getting in the way of research?

How about Global warming caused by man, and stem cell research? Both of these scintific areas have scinentists that are pro and con on the subject. However, in the global warming subjects, there are a few scientists who claim that those opposed to the theory that man kind is causing it have asked that thise opposed to the mankind portion be arrested on charges of treason, or be disbarred (or whatever the correct term is to strip a scinentist of his/her scintific credentials).

Hydie Cuoric of the Weather Channel is one of these who what to discredit scientist who oppose her position that mankind is causing the current global warming cycle (even though since this century began the trend has been coolier, this trend began in 1998).
 
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:00 pm



Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 14):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):

If they where any good they would be in the private sector.

No doubt the privately employed scientists tend to run more republican.

Anything to back that up, or just the usual?

I doubt if he has. Here is one who does not. And off hand I cannot think of many others in the private sector who do. In the good old days many of the Big Oil folk were, but (might just be a hint for the GOP in this) it appears not to be so. Most of my private sector colleagues - in companies across about 6 countries - are distinctly left wing in their politics (as viewed from the US of course).

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 19):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
It is nothing like what you learned in college, maybe it is best you ask your Dad those questions. You may be to young to understand it yourself..

Enough with the ageist crap, KC. If there's something incorrect with his views, tell him what it is. The fact that you have to resort to "oh, well, you wouldn't understand" shows me that you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

 checkmark 

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 22):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Texas A&M

One of the aforementioned PUBLIC research institutions. Politically, it is a conservative university, but not a Christian school.

Almost enough to make me tell the joke about the Polack Aggie from Texas A&M who wanted to become a chicken farmer. But first it is a bit long and second, it would make KC happy and as you can tell, he is happy enough already!!!

But just a hint to the GOP if you are in denial about the scientific community, you really ought to try to get a handle on just how furious they are with you for the period 2001 to 2008 (incl). And by an large it takes a fair bit to get scientists furious, but once stirred, look out.
 
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:53 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
But good luck with your further attempts to make science look bad...!

Some scientists do a good job without the help of the GOP.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 44):
But just a hint to the GOP if you are in denial about the scientific community, you really ought to try to get a handle on just how furious they are with you for the period 2001 to 2008 (incl).

You mean like this?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 43):
Hydie Cuoric of the Weather Channel is one of these who what to discredit scientist who oppose her position that mankind is causing the current global warming cycle (even though since this century began the trend has been coolier, this trend began in 1998).

 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:55 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 33):

For example, a brief search tells me that in 2008, Obama got 52.9% of the popular vote, while McCain got 45.7%. That adds up to 98.6%.

Why bother listing the other 1.4% of votes, for candidates who don't really matter?

Because "Other/None" was included in this study. Meaning that if the Democrat, Independent, and Republican didn't add up to 100%, then the "Other/None" should make it add up to 100%

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
But good luck with your further attempts to make science look bad...!

Well you're explanation makes sense. But I'm not trying to make science look bad. After all, I've never been one to buy into the "the earth is only 4,000 years old nonsense". I do believe in evolution to an extent. I just wonder how "truthful" this study particular is, and what the OP is trying to get at by posting it.

But since the OP does want to go there, let's take a look at my career field - military - the numbers are basically opposite those of the scientists. So if people on here want to draw lines and conclusions and say "What does this say about Republicans in science since there are so few of them?" Well, I think its then fair to ask "What does it say about Democrats when Republicans clearly out number Democrats in the military?"
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:25 pm

It really irritates me when people claim that scientists don't live in the real world. Science is about have to dealing with the physical "laws" (constraints) of the universe. Business and politics is about dealing with the unreal human universe where practitioners frequently believe in contradictory and impossible ideas with no rational basis. Yes, scientists can often be naive about this human universe, but is understanding something new about the universe we live in a less worthy pursuit than a salesperson sprouting bullshit so you can earn more money as they climb up the corporate ladder?

Is it wrong to do a job because you are really interested in it, because you find it rewarding in itself, rather than just because you can earn money?

I do work in a science research organisation and was trained as a scientist, though I am not a practising scientist. We are constantly being told to follow management trends inherited from the business world despite there being no proven basis, or sometimes even a sensible argument, for these strategies.

I've heard businessmen whining that the stupid scientists would never survive in the business world because they never seem to provide exact numbers and precise forecasts (think weather/climate change). Yet ask them why their sales forecasts/accounts are off and they'll just blame real world conditions and explain that they are only estimates and obviously they can't know everything.
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republican

Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:41 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 46):
Because "Other/None" was included in this study. Meaning that if the Democrat, Independent, and Republican didn't add up to 100%, then the "Other/None" should make it add up to 100%

Ever left a question blank in a survey?

Of course, this entire poll is to stroke the ego of a certain party/political ideology...and this is from a Democratic-leaning engineer. Seriously, who cares? I'm sure 80% of porn stars also identify as Democrats.
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Klaus
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RE: Pew Poll: 6 Percent Of Scientists Are Republic

Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:54 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 46):
But since the OP does want to go there, let's take a look at my career field - military - the numbers are basically opposite those of the scientists. So if people on here want to draw lines and conclusions and say "What does this say about Republicans in science since there are so few of them?" Well, I think its then fair to ask "What does it say about Democrats when Republicans clearly out number Democrats in the military?"

Volunteers in the military generally have an elevated tolerance for and affinity to authoritarian structures, so they almost always tend towards conservative parties politically which generally represent the same preferences.

Scientists, on the other hand, inherently work for the discovery of knowledge which can and often does reshape our views of the world, so it is natural for them to associate with political forces which are relatively open-minded and progressive.

Nothing mysterious about either group.

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