f.pier
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How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:43 pm

On average?

In Italy the average knowledge of Italian is really low, people make a lot of grammar mistake and about verbs they use times in a really bad way. Maybe because Italian was not widely spoken before TV entered in all homes and people was used to speak dialects.

On average....

What about your country?

[Edited 2009-07-11 07:43:55]
 
CXB77L
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:57 pm

I think that in this day and age of electronic communication and SMS, the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating. For me, who learnt English as a second language, I find it frustrating that while I had to put the effort in to get my spelling and grammar correct, native English speakers don't seem to give it a second thought. Nowadays, I'm the one people turn to when they want to know how to spell a word ...

Thorough knowledge of English is definitely on the decline among the younger generation.
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BR076
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:03 pm



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
Thorough knowledge of English is definitely on the decline among the younger generation.

Same goes for Dutch in the Netherlands.
ú
 
ltbewr
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:26 pm

In the USA, there seems to be an increase in poor grammar, spelling and vocabulary. Far too often the F-word and other foul words dominate conversation. Very few really learn a second language. The use of texting, e-mail, automatic spelling/grammer checking funcitons in Word as well as less conversations in person between people is adding to the decling of knowledge of English here.
 
andz
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:32 pm



Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
In Italy the average knowledge of Italian is really low, people make a lot of grammar mistake and about verbs they use times in a really bad way. Maybe because Italian was not widely spoken before TV entered in all homes and people was used to speak dialects.

Okay you got me... Italian wasn't known in Italy before TV??
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
f.pier
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:42 pm

Italy exists only since 1861 and Italian was taught in schools, but consider that in the average family the only spoken language was the local dialect. So children went to the school and learned Italian, but back at home they spoke dialect. My grandmother for example was born in 1903 and could understand Italian, but it was very hard for her speaking it.
In cities it was different because the presence of immigrants let the locals speak Italian earlier than in small towns.

In Tuscany Italian was the local dialect, so it was easier for them....

But it's true that the knowledge of Italian is now declining also here, because youngsters speak a very poor Italian

[Edited 2009-07-11 08:44:03]
 
TransIsland
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:20 pm

For an example of the state of the English language in the Bahamas, take a look at this Facebook quiz. Sadly, this is not an exception.

http://quiz.applatform.com/track/?i=...h=cb271fa4e6b9daf31a4faa0864224b47
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janmnastami
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:21 pm



Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
In Italy the average knowledge of Italian is really low, people make a lot of grammar mistake and about verbs they use times in a really bad way.

I disagree, it's true that many people don't use subjunctive or conditional in the correct way, but it's because the "spoken language" is different from the formal one.
 
f.pier
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:29 pm



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 7):
I disagree, it's true that many people don't use subjunctive or conditional in the correct way, but it's because the "spoken language" is different from the formal one.

This means that the "spoken language" is wrong. I know a lot of people (myself too) who like speaking a good Italian.
 
baroque
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:30 pm



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
I think that in this day and age of electronic communication and SMS, the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating.

You put to shame many an a.net member who in theory has English as a first language - not only from Aus either. However, I suspect that the proportion of younger (any country) persons with excellent linguistic skills is about the same as ever, but the dreaded internet "persuades"/"permits" many with inferior linguistic skills to demonstrate them.
 
andz
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:35 pm



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
electronic communication and SMS, the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating

It is happening everywhere. I hate the SMS abbreviations, personally I always use the complete word when sending an SMS. With predictive text it is faster than silly abbreviations anyway.
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RobertNL070
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:40 pm



Quoting BR076 (Reply 2):
Same goes for Dutch in the Netherlands.

Sadly it is not confined to the younger generation here.
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:00 pm

In Ireland our first language (Gaeilge) is popular but the majority of people only have a few words from their school days. There are only about 80,000 native speakers residing in areas where Irish is spoken daily (An Gaeltacht), mainly in the west.
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:13 pm



Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
What about your country?

Unfortunately very poor grammar in countries where Albanian is widely spoken (Albania, Kosovo and FYROM). I hope the situation will get improved.
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BWilliams
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:23 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
In the USA, there seems to be an increase in poor grammar, spelling and vocabulary. Far too often the F-word and other foul words dominate conversation. Very few really learn a second language. The use of texting, e-mail, automatic spelling/grammer checking funcitons in Word as well as less conversations in person between people is adding to the decling of knowledge of English here.

Indeed ... I try to speak and (especially) type correctly, which is more then most Americans, especially those in my generation, can say. I say that because, when speaking, a bit of slang or mis-speech might slip and is somewhat acceptable (ie, not noticed), but in text, it's much more obvious that something doesn't look right.

Admittedly, my grammar (insofar as punctuation and such) isn't perfect, as I mostly type the way I would speak, using commas or elipses where I would pause when speaking.


As far as foreign languages, absolutely, LTB. I'm studying German because I find it to be an interesting language, and I enjoy learning languages. I get a lot of 'why would you do that?', 'when would you seriously need to speak German?', and the like from people who just don't get it. Even though Spanish (and in some cases, French, Italian, or other languages) are taught in schools, most people STILL only speak English, which is unbelievable.
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stasisLAX
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:47 pm

Knowledge of "Spanglish" here in the U.S. is quite good  duck 
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DocLightning
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:37 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
In the USA, there seems to be an increase in poor grammar, spelling and vocabulary. Far too often the F-word and other foul words dominate conversation. Very few really learn a second language. The use of texting, e-mail, automatic spelling/grammer checking funcitons in Word as well as less conversations in person between people is adding to the decling of knowledge of English here.

Interestingly, I was on the train a few months back and two African-American youths were having a conversation.

Now, they clearly both spoke English and were speaking English. And I am a born-and-raised American. But I could not understand a word of their conversation nor could I have mimicked their style of speech. And yet they were speaking English.

Or were they? If the definition of a language is that it must be mutually intelligible to all speakers, has "ebonics," or "ghetto talk" or whatever you want to call it turned into a separate language? I bet that if, allowed to continue on its natural course, it will mature into a clearly distinct language. Already, it has very formalized rules of grammar, even though those rules vary from English. For example, "to be" is a verb that indicates the habitual tense, which is a tense that doesn't exist in English. The phrase, "She be home" means that she tends to be at home, but does not guarantee that she's at home this moment. Ebonics is very quickly solidifying its own set of nouns, pronunciations, and grammatical rules. I think it's an exciting opportunity to watch a language be born.

Now, the different dialects in the various ethnic "ghettos" are noticeable, especially in a place like NYC, SF, or LA, but I've become convinced that...whatever you want to call what those kids were speaking is becoming something like a patois. It happened in Jamaica to English there and I bet it'll happen here, too.
-Doc Lightning-

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rsg85
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:02 am



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 1):
the level of spelling and grammar displayed by the younger generation of Australians is deteriorating

What are yous speakings about we speaks good england in straya eh

But seriously im often ashamed when i hear Aussies overseas, it's ok to speak "strayan" to your mates, but leave it at home.
 
RussianJet
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:05 am

In the UK, people just don't seem to care these days. I am so sick of it, documents coming to me with elementary mistakes in spelling, grammar and syntax. It drives me mad. On this site you see it a lot with English too.

Some of my pet hates include:

Misuse of the apostrophe - your, you're, their, they're, posessive instead of plural etc.
Two, to, too.
Loose/lose.
Writing two words as one, i.e. "alot" or "aswell".

.....and the list goes on.

These particular types of mistake are very common, but in fact the principles are so simple.

Grrrrrrrrrrr!
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baroque
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:31 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
And I am a born-and-raised American. But I could not understand a word of their conversation nor could I have mimicked their style of speech. And yet they were speaking English.

Glad some from the US also suffer this problem.  bigthumbsup  Some of the "sound bites" from the US are totally incomprehensible to me. I just wonder if our TV folk bother to check that THEY can understand before sending the jumble out over our airwaves too.

Quoting Rsg85 (Reply 17):
yous speakings about we speaks good england in straya eh

Now the rather less than before beloved ABC has a radio person who raises her voice at the end of sentENCES
 
andz
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:51 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

I have never heard that from anyone else other than Australians.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
baroque
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:22 pm



Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

I have never heard that from anyone else other than Australians.

Quite possibly but only from some!! A bit like the cult of the HAITCH. As in BHP being B Haitch P.

Some comedians made a career out of imitating it in the early 80s and now there is a significant minority that just talks that way.

Some of the mannerisms are caught in the Kath and Kim TV comedy. Sound bites at.
http://www.kathandkim.com/zip_your_lip.htm

But they are more complex than the simple rising inflection.

For Pru and Trude Sound bites try

http://www.kathandkim.com/threw.htm

Not to be confused with the US version. NOT to be confused!!!!
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:45 pm



Quoting Andz (Reply 10):
I hate the SMS abbreviations, personally I always use the complete word when sending an SMS.

Proper order. I do too, and use capitals where necessary. Commas, colons and semicolons, where appropriate, go in too. On more than one occasion I have misinterpreted texts due to the abscence of punctuation.

Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

I have never heard that from anyone else other than Australians.

Kids now do that here too. I blame Neighbours.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:14 pm



Quoting BWilliams (Reply 14):
which is more then most Americans

which is more than most Americans

Quoting BWilliams (Reply 14):
but in text, it's much more obvious that something doesn't look right.

Was this example of incorrect word usage accidential, or on purpose to get your point accross.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:38 pm

Depending on Which language...This is a land of hundreds of different variaties of languages.
Mostly the popular ones being English & Hindi.
most people speak their 1st language well,but there could be grammatical errors with others.

regds
MEL.
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baroque
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:49 pm



Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 22):
Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

I have never heard that from anyone else other than Australians.

Kids now do that here too. I blame Neighbours.

I don't know about that program. I only know about NeighBOURS.  duck  Actually I think I can truly claim never to have watched NeighBOURS although I know of its existence and I may have hit it in the 0.5 secs my remote takes to switch a channel without going from say 7 to 77 which we don't have. So subliminal at worst! We had a head of ABC (IIRC) whose fav program was Eastenders (also never seen). Takes all sorts it appears.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 22):
Quoting Andz (Reply 10):
I hate the SMS abbreviations, personally I always use the complete word when sending an SMS.

Proper order. I do too, and use capitals where necessary. Commas, colons and semicolons, where appropriate, go in too. On more than one occasion I have misinterpreted texts due to the absence of punctuation.

What an easy life you do have! I often send an SMS in Indonesian (which I sort of know) wth abbns but w punctuation and get a reply in Sundanese (which I mostly do not know) also w abbns just to make it more interesting.
 
AM744
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:12 pm

Vocabulary and orthography is lacking at every level, even university graduates. Vocabulary and grammar shortages become clear when reading newspaper notes (specially free online editions i.e. El Universal. You get what you pay for, I guess.) or hear news on the radio that fail to convey clear ideas or messages. It becomes even worst during live interviews. Some people have problems comprehending what they read, too.

When will people understand that "let's see" is written "a ver" ("preposition + "to see" verb in infinitive) and NOT "haber" (infinitive form of "to have" verb)?
 
ronglimeng
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:03 pm

I guess our opening poster is just asking for opinions because I doubt very much if anybody here has access to a lot of scientific data on the subject.

I graduated from high school in Ontario in 1967 after writing the last set of departmental exams held in our province. I figured that anybody who came after me had inflated marks in a deteriorating system. But, I can't be sure. I seem to recall my mother thinking that the school system had gone to hell in a handbasket after she left it.

I think our standards have probably crept up at the same time more and more people are communicating electronically.

If I try to set my personal conceit aside and be honest about it, I would probably have to think that every day and in every way, things are getting better and better! Just look at this place. We've got people typing here that a few years ago would never think to communicate in a written forum.

PS: I ran the spell checker on the above. Spell-checker - what a great invention, eh?
 
michlis
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:08 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
The use of texting, e-mail, automatic spelling/grammer checking funcitons in Word as well as less conversations in person between people is adding to the decling of knowledge of English here.

Spot on!  bigthumbsup 

I will defend spell check; however; because it can be a useful tool for proof-reading.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
AverageUser
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:07 pm



Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
In Italy the average knowledge of Italian is really low, people make a lot of grammar mistake and about verbs they use times in a really bad way.

Any takers for a verbal system such as ours? Type for instance "ajatella" = "to think" into http://www.verbix.com/languages/finnish.shtml . And then there are the nouns ... and the compounds thereof ... derivatives etc
 
7324ever
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:42 pm

In the US in the north it is Improving the west coast it still going down hill especially with Ebonics in the Hispanic/black/aisan ghetto areas it "be going hella down hill lika drug hoe baby momma on a caddy" Yes and in the south it just "got Dem dare bad ethnic slurs because of 200 years on hick imbreedin' "

Serbia the dialect is getting culture mixed on Russian, Croatian, Serbian, and Bulgarian. But every one can communicate just with mixed accents but its just all sloping no matter what country your in.
Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
 
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LTU932
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:42 am

In Germany, it's rather good, but not very good. Despite the very difficult grammar, the rules for capitalisation, and with the orthographic changes implemented in 2002, most people I know write pretty good in German. The only real problem is the increasing use of anglicisms, which makes people forget about equally useful terms in German. Plus with the internet, people tend to write in all lower letters, completely forgetting when to capitalise.

Costa Rica is a more different thing. The average Costa Rican tends to ommit things such as accents over a vowel, which includes the press (though in the press, they don't use things such as accents when writing in all capital letters). However, there are also lots of people who simply don't have an idea about how to properly write at all. They tend to sometimes invert a Z to use it as an S, use sometimes an S instead of a C, and confuse the B with a V, or even replace the Y with a LL, and vice versa.
 
andz
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:13 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 31):
The only real problem is the increasing use of anglicisms

I've noticed this every time I visit Germany, it seems to be the trendy thing to do, especially in advertising.

I believe that in France there are laws against this. For instance, a Walkman is called a Balladeur (sp) in France.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
baroque
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:52 am



Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 27):
I ran the spell checker on the above. Spell-checker - what a great invention, eh?

'Scuse me, this facility is not available (well not to me) and in any event is needed only by those writing the Wizard of Id or similar.  angel  There is a facility for "Check Spelling" the which I will use presently. Mind I would prefer spelling checker.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:02 am

In Monaco Monegasque is the National language. It is taught in schools and adult classes. It is not spoken widely at all.

You can hear French, Italian and English everywhere. Everyone must speak these 3 languages in order to get good jobs. Then there are other spoken languages, Arabic and Russian but not for everyone. Just for minorities.

In France I find that people are very poor at language proficiency. The young people's knowledge of French is very bad. Some have no more than 300 or 400 words in their vocabulary and their understanding of the language and writing proficiency is totally disastrous. SMS language is what they use most widely. Even the writing in the Baccalaureate exam copies is of a very low grade.

The French have very low proficiency in foreign languages. I find the level of English is very poor even at Superior Education level not talking about every day life where it is almost unexisting. I find it is mostly because people don't like making any efforts anymore for learning anything including languages.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
connies4ever
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:18 am

As for the state of the English language in Canada: maybe marginally better than the US, but just. As for French, well, two answers. Quebecois French is more or less a Norman/Breton dialect living and breathing in the 21st century, with the addition of many English words/terms ("le weekend", par exemple). Many European French don't really understand them well. Acadian French is closer to the 'real' French. One of the problems we have out west is that in school European French is taught as well -- so we have difficulty sometimes understanding our own countrymen

As for grammar, punctuation, appalling spelling (at least in English) I share the general concerns expressed here. Spellcheck is no substitute for a brain.


Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
Glad some from the US also suffer this problem. bigthumbsup Some of the "sound bites" from the US are totally incomprehensible to me. I just wonder if our TV folk bother to check that THEY can understand before sending the jumble out over our airwaves too.

One of the reasons that so many (especially network) TV reporters in the US are actually Canadian - we speak a form of English with a flat enough accent that everyone can understand us (Kevin Tibbles, Zain Verjee, Donna Friesen {an alumna of Grant Park High in Winnipeg, my old school}, in the past Morley Safer, Robert McNeill, Peter Jennings, to name some)

Quoting Baroque (Reply 19):
Now the rather less than before beloved ABC has a radio person who raises her voice at the end of sentENCES

Try listening to Sarah Kim of Korean Broadcasting Service. She comes up on CBC Radio One at 5:45 AM ET with a Korean update. Speaks clearly with no real accent but then raises her voice at THE END. It's very annoying. A good reader, pace, clarity,etc., but someone needs to teach her how to present.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:30 am

In German speaking Europe, the 1000 years under Mr Hitler were disastrous for German rethorics. And in Switzerland, German language students were badly seen by many. Swiss politicians for ages, even if being fluent in standard German, in public did their uttermost to sound "dialect-linked". So that, in spite of having German in school most extensively, German in Switzerland is a mess. Ugly is that all those local radio stations talk in dialect. Strange if you realize that the texts in front of them are in standard German and they in fact translate them back into dialect. Quite recently, the government of the Canton of Zurich handed out strict guidelines to the schools in regard to getting back to standard German for most of everything. French language was for decades forced upon all secondary school pupils when it already was out of fashion, which means that the pupils had a lot of theoretical knowledge, but after school simply dropped that language alltogether. This has been corrected in the meantime, so that English and French are taught to the same level. Which means that many German speakers in Switzerland when talking standard German are using ehhmmms at almost every 8th word, but in English and French are quite useful .
 
HT
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:22 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
Ugly is that all those local radio stations talk in dialect.

I have no problem with this, if the radio station indeed is aiming at local population. It actually helps to preserve the local dialects - something that is okay, if at the same time one is able to speak a language in the "clean" form, too.

You also find this in those local radio stations by the BBC, whereas the nationwide broadcasts usually are spoken in something like Oxford-English.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:41 am



Quoting HT (Reply 37):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
Ugly is that all those local radio stations talk in dialect.

I have no problem with this, if the radio station indeed is aiming at local population. It actually helps to preserve the local dialects - something that is okay, if at the same time one is able to speak a language in the "clean" form, too.

If you realize that 4 mio. German speaking Switzerland sports some 30 different dialects, and that some radio speakers speak in a dialect which is hardly understood in the region where the radio station is received, you see the problem. Many speakers on radio, particularily if originating from some remote backyards, have the feeling to represent "true Switzerland". And then react angry when hearing that parts of the audience listen to SWF3 and similar stations.
-
And in years of military services I fairly often acted as translator between East and West German speakers in Switzerland, who had problems to understand each other. Very very strange ...........
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Count

Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:03 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 38):
And in years of military services I fairly often acted as translator between East and West German speakers in Switzerland, who had problems to understand each other. Very very strange

This is strange! I have never imagined that Swiss-German is hardly to communicate between East and West German speakers! I have been twice in Zurich but that time I have heard that Basel-Deutsch it is one of the most rough dialects to understand.
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:33 am



Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 39):
in Zurich but that time I have heard that Basel-Deutsch it is one of the most rough dialects to understand.

-
not really, as it is one of the easiest ! Try it with the one of Bern-Oberland or Bern-Seeland or Uri or Wallis. Compare the dialects from Thurgau, St. Gallen and Graubünden with the one of Berne-City. I for more than one time was "ordered" by one of the lieutenants to take a seat and take over, as they found the differences in dialects too annoying ! I had many free drinks in those times !  Big grin
 
pawsleykat
Posts: 1714
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:55 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 18):
In the UK, people just don't seem to care these days. I am so sick of it, documents coming to me with elementary mistakes in spelling, grammar and syntax. It drives me mad. On this site you see it a lot with English too.

Some of my pet hates include:

Misuse of the apostrophe - your, you're, their, they're, posessive instead of plural etc.
Two, to, too.
Loose/lose.
Writing two words as one, i.e. "alot" or "aswell".

.....and the list goes on.

You took the words right our of my mouth. That's exactly how I feel. I go mad if someone were to write "your so hot. It's to good". Simply because there is no need not to know the proper usage.

Although I use abbreviations such as 'btw', 'lol', 'rofl', 'lmao' etc in msn and also sometimes in life (I'll say roffle quite a bit, as the phonetic sounding of Rofl). But I don't use them to excess [sometimes].
What really annoys me and I don't know why, but people using 'u' instead of 'you', 'r', instead of 'are' etc.

Also, to answer the question, in Scotland, the official language is now English. But Scots Gaelic (Gàidhlig) was spoken widely until the 1700s when the Highland Clearances took place and the people were banned from speaking their own language. Today, only some ~58'000 people speak Gàidhlig, mostly in the Scottish Highlands and Islands. When one goes further north, road signs have the names and places in both English and Gaelic. It is a language I would one day love to speak.

JG  

Edit: Typo

[Edited 2009-07-14 04:59:41]
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fatmirjusufi
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:02 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 40):
Try it with the one of Bern-Oberland or Bern-Seeland or Uri or Wallis.

Oh my God. I was wrong. I meant Bern Deutsch, not Basel.
Anyway Swiss Deutsch it's on my top list 'languages' (actually it's a dialect) that I want to learn sometime.
DO FLIGHTS. NOT FIGHTS.
 
AM744
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:54 pm



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 35):
Quebecois French is more or less a Norman/Breton dialect living and breathing in the 21st century, with the addition of many English words/terms ("le weekend", par exemple).

I thought "weekend" was the 'French' word whereas in Quebec paradoxically, they use the much more French "fin de semaine".
 
Timlin88
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:12 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
In France I find that people are very poor at language proficiency. The young people's knowledge of French is very bad. Some have no more than 300 or 400 words in their vocabulary and their understanding of the language and writing proficiency is totally disastrous. SMS language is what they use most widely. Even the writing in the Baccalaureate exam copies is of a very low grade.

Things are going the same way in Geneva. Of course, the spoken level of French is probably better, since it's the only official language, but the level of written French is absolutely catastrophic. Students with high school degrees get into college, and fail their years because of spelling issues. The blame is placed on SMS and IM programs, but also on the fact that a lot of teachers don't really take the time anymore to teach their pupils to spell properly at primary level. The education hasn't followed the trend : in my opinion, if the proper language is being used less, more accent should be put on it in schools.

I don't mean to show off, but, ironically, French is my third language, and I have better spelling than anyone I know. Seriously.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
Which means that many German speakers in Switzerland when talking standard German are using ehhmmms at almost every 8th word, but in English and French are quite useful .

Interesting you should say that, because I haven't found that at all. I live in Geneva, but recently I've spent a lot of time in Zürich and Luzern, and whenever people there hear that I'm addressing them in "standard" German, they switch right over, without any problems. They of course maintain their Swiss accent (which I love), but they lose all other traces of dialect. That's what I've found anyway.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 38):
If you realize that 4 mio. German speaking Switzerland sports some 30 different dialects, and that some radio speakers speak in a dialect which is hardly understood in the region where the radio station is received, you see the problem.

Again, not what I've experienced. A few weeks ago I was on a course in Luzern, and there were people there from all over (really all over, Luzern, Chur, Aargau, Zürich, Interlaken....) and they all understood each other perfectly in dialect. I asked the teachers to speak regular German, so I could follow along, but everybody else babbled on in their local lingo. I asked a couple of girls if they had trouble, and they said that the only people they couldn't understand were the Walliser.

Matti
 
andz
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:12 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 18):
Misuse of the apostrophe - posessive instead of plural etc.

That is rife here, and it really grates me when I see it on signs, billboards etc. that have been made by "professional" sign companies. Does nobody proof read anymore?

Misspelling of professional is another favourite, I mean really, who would deal with Proffesional Painters Ltd. when they can't spell the word?
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
baroque
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:22 pm



Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 35):
One of the reasons that so many (especially network) TV reporters in the US are actually Canadian - we speak a form of English with a flat enough accent that everyone can understand us (Kevin Tibbles, Zain Verjee, Donna Friesen {an alumna of Grant Park High in Winnipeg, my old school}, in the past Morley Safer, Robert McNeill, Peter Jennings, to name some)

And that is probably the moment when our brains lean back metaphorically and think, "Ah at last an American I can understand". Is Obama a closet Candian perhaps?

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 35):
Try listening to Sarah Kim of Korean Broadcasting Service. She comes up on CBC Radio One at 5:45 AM ET with a Korean update. Speaks clearly with no real accent but then raises her voice at THE END. It's very annoying. A good reader, pace, clarity,etc., but someone needs to teach her how to present.

Not sure I have heard her, but as for language, what price the N Korean lady who is enough to win a war just announcing it?
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:23 pm

Quoting Andz (Reply 32):
I believe that in France there are laws against this. For instance, a Walkman is called a Balladeur (sp) in France.

I'm mot quite sure about the term use of "Walkman" in France. I think that "Walkman" is a trademark of Sony and therefore manufacturers/shops/advertising/ etc., are not allowed to use the term, at least in France.

[Edited 2009-07-14 10:23:57]
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:50 pm



Quoting Timlin88 (Reply 44):
they couldn't understand were the Walliser.

-
the Wallisers have it difficult to get understood. I was and often the only one who does understand them. In regard to the other people you mentioned, out of context my conclusion is that you get around among rather intelligent and educated people .............
 
LH459
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RE: How Is The Knowledge Of Language In Your Country?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:40 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 31):
In Germany, it's rather good, but not very good...Plus with the internet, people tend to write in all lower letters, completely forgetting when to capitalise.

This is my biggest gripe in modern German! I take great pains to write correctly, but few of my friends (or even business contacts!) follow the capitalization rules. My mother was a German teacher and is now a professional translator, so I had this drilled into me from an early age.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 31):
. The average Costa Rican tends to ommit things such as accents over a vowel, which includes the press (though in the press, they don't use things such as accents when writing in all capital letters). However, there are also lots of people who simply don't have an idea about how to properly write at all. They tend to sometimes invert a Z to use it as an S, use sometimes an S instead of a C, and confuse the B with a V, or even replace the Y with a LL, and vice versa.

The problems you mention are common throughout Latin America. I've found even university educated people often make the B vs. V mistake. In most cases, it's as though V didn't exist for them. And hardly anybody includes accents when writing emails.
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