Falcon84
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Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:55 am

Well, the crap continues for the Obama-haters and their conspiracy theories that Obama isn't the legitimate President, even though it has been debunked over and over again.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/breaking_news/story/776335.html

Don't want to deply, soldier? Then you can have a Dishonorable Discharge for failing to follow the chain of command.

L-188, is this guy related to you or something?  Big grin
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D L X
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:16 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Then you can have a Dishonorable Discharge for failing to follow the chain of command.

Dishonorable discharge? How about insubordination? A little time in the brig should be sufficient.

This is an easy one.

NEXT!
 
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falstaff
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:29 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Don't want to deply, soldier? Then you can have a Dishonorable Discharge for failing to follow the chain of command.



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
Dishonorable discharge? How about insubordination? A little time in the brig should be sufficient.

I can't believe it but I am agreeing with DLX and Falcon 84....

This is probably just somebody being a wimp. Just like those people who wouldn't deploy under Bush because they felt war was immoral. If you don't like war then don't join the Army. When you join the Army you sign up for whatever it brings. Armies fight, that is their job.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Well, the crap continues for the Obama-haters and their conspiracy theories that Obama isn't the legitimate President, even though it has been debunked over and over again.

This guy is just a wimp plain and simple. Maybe he doesn't want to go to war for Obama, neither would I, but he should be there to stand up for his unit, his friends, and his country. What does it say to the guys he serves with when he pulls the "I don't want to serve under Obama card"?

Even if you don't think Obama was born in the USA it is very hard to dispute he is a US citizen.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Obama isn't the legitimate President

He won fair and square. I don't like it but that is the way it is.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:39 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
Dishonorable discharge? How about insubordination? A little time in the brig should be sufficient.

Maybe some time in Leavenworth would do him some good for the next 10 years.
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TheCol
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:55 am

Acting as a self-appointed PR officer and backbencher for Obama (not that I dislike the guy or the job he's doing) and the Democratic party isn't exactly original content.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:24 am

I just fail to see how he and his lawyer manage to believe that their line of defense is a valid one at all...

He's probably just a coward.

And Obama didn't start these wars anyway, if he wants someone to blame for them, he'll have to look elsewhere.
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HOMER71
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:20 pm

Should've went with the "I'm not going because this war is wrong/illegal/whatever" at least he'll get support from ACLU, moveon.org, code pink, Al-Qaeda, etc.

Using the Obama card won't get him any help, not even from conservatives.
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offloaded
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:41 pm

Would he have gone if McCain had won? I doubt it.

What I don't get is how he got to the rank of major.
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dxing
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:43 pm

Gee, another "Obama Hater Thread" featuring one misguided individual who somehow represents a huge number of people. And now it appears that there is more to story than the linked article provides.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/777472.html

Earlier today, Quon said Cook submitted a formal written request to Human Resources Command-St. Louis on May 8, 2009 volunteering to serve one year in Afghanistan with Special Operations Command, U.S. Army Central Command, beginning July 15, 2009. The soldier's orders were issued on June 9, Quon said.

"A reserve soldier who volunteers for an active duty tour may ask for a revocation of orders up until the day he is scheduled to report for active duty," Quon said.


So the truth is he volunteered to serve and now has asked for a revocation. Quite different than an a soldier that is ordered to report and refuses the order. Something tells me this is a nut job who did this soley to be able to further this lawyers idiotic claim.

Quoting Homer71 (Reply 9):
Should've went with the "I'm not going because this war is wrong/illegal/whatever" at least he'll get support from ACLU, moveon.org, code pink, Al-Qaeda, etc.

Using the Obama card won't get him any help, not even from conservatives.

 checkmark 

Well we know what's in store for this guy. Hard to believe he made it to field grade before melting down.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmJPnAGUJk

Side note, Lily Gordon and her editor need to work on their writing. From the original story.

and status as a conscientious objector for her client.

the California-based Taitz asks the court to consider granting his client%u2019s request based upon

So is Orly a man or a woman?
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kc135topboom
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:06 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 2):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Don't want to deply, soldier? Then you can have a Dishonorable Discharge for failing to follow the chain of command.



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
Dishonorable discharge? How about insubordination? A little time in the brig should be sufficient.

I can't believe it but I am agreeing with DLX and Falcon 84....



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 3):
Well, first and foremost, I would like to say that this guy is true scum. He signed up to protect this country and he has chickened out and is blaming Obama for doing so? He should be ashamed.



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 8):
He's probably just a coward.

None of you guys understand how the US Military, or the UCMJ works. This Major saw the order as an illegal order, as he believes Obama is not qualified, under the US Constitution to be the POTUS. He has filed suit in a Federal Court to find out if Obama is a natueral born US Citizen. Under the UCMJ any military personel cannot obey an illegal order, and must oppose it. Obama isn't helping any by not releasing his long form birth certificate, issued by the State of Hawaii. The short form issued by his campagin in 2008 does not have an embosed state seal indicating it is authentic. Apparently, now the US Army agrees with him as his orders have been revolked. If Obama is not qualified under the US Constitution, he will be removed from office, and the 2008 election will be looked at to determine if Biden or McCain is POTUS. Any and all bills Obama signed, should he be proven to be ineligable to be POTUS, will also be revolked. The birth certificate issue also brings his US Senate from IL seat into question, as je would also be inelegible for that, also.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104009

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 8):
Obama didn't start these wars anyway

Correct, al Qaeda did.

Quoting Homer71 (Reply 9):
Using the Obama card won't get him any help, not even from conservatives.

Please don't speak for conservatives, as you would be wrong.

Quoting Offloaded (Reply 10):
Would he have gone if McCain had won? I doubt it.

McCain was born in a US Military Hospital on a US Base, in the Canal Zone in Panama to US Citizens. His father was assigned there during his USN career. According to the SCOTUS, that makes him a natueral born citizen.

So, I doubt this Major would have challanged any orders issued by a President McCain.
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:16 pm

Not to go too off topic here, but didn't this also happen under Bush?
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mt99
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:21 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Quoting Francoflier (Reply 8):
Obama didn't start these wars anyway

Correct, al Qaeda did.

Iraq?

Maybe they can get a gay guy to replace him.. oh wait...
Step into my office, baby
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:24 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Obama isn't helping any by not releasing his long form birth certificate, issued by the State of Hawaii.

And why would it convince birthers when the short form hasn't satisfied them nor has the birth announcement from the Honolulu Advertiser

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
The short form issued by his campagin in 2008 does not have an embosed state seal indicating it is authentic.

What's this then? Sorry, KC135 but it does, indeed, have an embossed state seal

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_1.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[Edited 2009-07-15 07:38:42]
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baroque
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:25 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
He has filed suit in a Federal Court to find out if Obama is a natueral born US Citizen.

Well he is probably not that, but his being born in the US does appear to be incontrovertible. Unless you are suggesting a cesarean would disqualify him. I don't know if that cul de sac has been pursued. Perhaps Burnham Wood has come to Constitution Avenue, or perhaps in the case of the US it should be "till the Wilderness shall come to Constitution Avenue". Help me there const of US experts and those who know the Scottish Play.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:30 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
This Major saw the order as an illegal order, as he believes Obama is not qualified, under the US Constitution to be the POTUS. He has filed suit in a Federal Court to find out if Obama is a natueral born US Citizen

Already decided by US Federal Courts that the birth certificate is Obama's. Appeals to the US Supreme Court were denied as without foundation.

The Major failed to follow the UCMJ requirements for an illegal order.

He is just a publicity seeking blowhard disgrace to the uniform, as is anyone who believes this BS.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:31 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
None of you guys understand how the US Military, or the UCMJ works. This Major saw the order as an illegal order, as he believes Obama is not qualified, under the US Constitution to be the POTUS. He has filed suit in a Federal Court to find out if Obama is a natueral born US Citizen.

You're right, I revise my statement. He's not a coward, he's just plain mad.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
The short form issued by his campagin in 2008 does not have an embosed state seal indicating it is authentic. Apparently, now the US Army agrees with him as his orders have been revolked. If Obama is not qualified under the US Constitution, he will be removed from office, and the 2008 election will be looked at to determine if Biden or McCain is POTUS. Any and all bills Obama signed, should he be proven to be ineligable to be POTUS, will also be revolked. The birth certificate issue also brings his US Senate from IL seat into question, as je would also be inelegible for that, also.

If it keeps you hoping...

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Quoting Francoflier (Reply 8):
Obama didn't start these wars anyway

Correct, al Qaeda did.

Believe it or not, that's exactly what I meant.  Smile
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D L X
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:36 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
Obama isn't helping any by not releasing his long form birth certificate

And again, where is Falcon with his "not this shit again?" picture?

Newspaper announcement of Obama's Birth in Honolulu:
http://wikileaks.org/leak/obama-1961...ement-from-honolulu-advertiser.pdf
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES...t-from-honolulu-advertiser0000.gif
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaBirthStarBulletin.jpg

ANNENBERG (Republican) Political Fact Check:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_1.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg

Will you accept it now? Don't walk away from this question - answer it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
McCain was born in a US Military Hospital on a US Base, in the Canal Zone in Panama to US Citizens. His father was assigned there during his USN career. According to the SCOTUS, that makes him a natueral born citizen.

What case is that? Please provide the name.

And why is it that McCain's being born to American citizens is enough for you, but Obama's being born to an American is not?


Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
None of you guys understand how the US Military, or the UCMJ works.

I'm not sure you do!
 
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:37 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
Perhaps Burnham Wood has come to Constitution Avenue, or perhaps in the case of the US it should be "till the Wilderness shall come to Constitution Avenue". Help me there const of US experts and those who know the Scottish Play.

Using that metaphor would that make George W. Bush the titular character of the Scottish Play or John McCain? In either event, one wonders who the three witches would be? Greta Van Susteren, Michelle Malkin, and Ann Coulter?

[Edited 2009-07-15 07:43:52]
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D L X
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:39 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 11):
Gee, another "Obama Hater Thread" featuring one misguided individual who somehow represents a huge number of people.

Well, it would appear that this one misguided individual does actually represent KC135TopBoom, who claims to be ex-military.
 
michlis
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:47 pm



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 20):
Using that metaphor would thatmake George W. Bush the titular character of the Scottish Play or John McCain? In either event, one wonders who the three witches would be? Greta Van Susteren, Michelle Malkin, and Ann Coulter?



Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
And again, where is Falcon with his "not this shit again?" picture?

And again we agree.
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:49 pm

Erm, wow!

What a jerk this guy is. Someone boot him out of the military already.......
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afterburner
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:00 pm

Why can't someone who is a legal child of a US citizen but (unfortunately) wasn't born on US soil can't be a POTUS? Isn't that called 'discrimination'?

It's a pity when someone who has all the capability of being a president of a great country can't be one because of this silly legal technicality.
 
baroque
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:10 pm



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 17):

Using that metaphor would that make George W. Bush the titular character of the Scottish Play or John McCain? In either event, one wonders who the three witches would be? Greta Van Susteren, Michelle Malkin, and Ann Coulter?

I was stuck at the untimely ripped stage but you are right, who ARE the dramatis personae?

I defer to your experience about the 3 ws, sounds about right. Surely McCain now has to be either the titular person but could also be Banquo or rather his ghost. Palin must have read for the part of McDuff even if McC wanted it but presumably Obama took it (a shoe in due to his not being naturally born). I think she was left with Lady Titular Person (which gels with some opinions around here I might add). This argues for McCain being the titular person. Surely we can find Banquo.

Can we agree on W as Duncan perhaps? I will again totally defer about the three murderers. Maybe some on this thread read for those parts?  duck 
 
NIKV69
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:13 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Well, the crap continues for the Obama-haters and their conspiracy theories that Obama isn't the legitimate President, even though it has been debunked over and over again.

Actually Obama himself is doing a good job himself to prove it. Have you seen his approval ratings?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 2):
Even if you don't think Obama was born in the USA it is very hard to dispute he is a US citizen.

Even though I think he is a terrible president I do have to laugh at the people that say he is not a citizen and is a Muslim. It's pretty ignorant.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:18 pm



Quoting Afterburner (Reply 21):
Why can't someone who is a legal child of a US citizen but (unfortunately) wasn't born on US soil can't be a POTUS?

They can be - nothing stops that individual from being president. Keep in mind the US concept of birthright citizenship is based on a hybrid of jus sanguinis and jus soli. As a result a child born to a US citizen born overseas is still a US citizen eligible to serve as president.
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mt99
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:20 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Actually Obama himself is doing a good job himself to prove it. Have you seen his approval ratings?

Did you ever criticize Bush's approval ratings?

I think most people were ready to accept that Obama's approval rating would fall. How could not they?

The only people who really think Obama is perfect are the Republicans.

Republicans crave the "God figure" - the all perfect leader. Democrats don't believe in such fantasies and recognize that Obama is man and will make mistakes.
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falstaff
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:29 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Correct, al Qaeda did.

That is for sure, but everyone leftist want to blame it on Bush and spare the terrorists from being offended.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 11):
Maybe they can get a gay guy to replace him.. oh wait...

Who is this guy guy?

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 21):
Why can't someone who is a legal child of a US citizen but (unfortunately) wasn't born on US soil can't be a POTUS? Isn't that called 'discrimination'?

It is written in the constitution. The idea is to help ensure that the President does not have loyalty to another country and doesn't represent the interests of. That is how I was taught it and how I understand it to be.
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rfields5421
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:41 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
McCain was born in a US Military Hospital on a US Base, in the Canal Zone in Panama to US Citizens. His father was assigned there during his USN career. According to the SCOTUS, that makes him a natueral born citizen.

You are wrong on this.

In 1936 when McCain was born, the children born of US military members serving overseas did not have specific legal status defining their citizenship. And certainly not defining them as 'natural born citizens'. The citizenship laws were passed after his birth, but nowhere do those or any other current laws define those children as 'natural born citizens'.

Also in 1936, the hospital where John McCain was born was NOT in the Canal Zone. It was a US Navy run hospital in the nation of Panama at a base used by the US military.

The Supreme Court has decided that the US Congress has the authority under the Constitution of the United States to determine the qualifications for citizenship. There is only one law passed by Congress defining "natural born citizen" The Naturalization Act of 1790.

In 1795 Congress changed the law to remove the words "natural born", but for the first time defined foreign born children of US citizen parents "shall be considered as citizens of the United States".

In 1857 in Dred Scott v. Sanford - the Supreme Court dissenting opinion says citizenship is acquired by place of birth, not through blood or lineage. While this case involved slave status, that dissenting opinion is an important part of today's definitions of when citizenship is acquired in the United States.

In 1872 in Elk v. Wilkins - the Supreme Court decision was that a Native American could not vote because though he was born in the United States, he was not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States - being born on an Indian reservation. That decision was overturned by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924. In challenges to that law, the Supreme Court again affirmed the right of the Congress, not the Court, to determine citizenship eligibility and status.

"Subject to the Jurisdiction" of the United States is how people like Barry Goldwater - not born in a US state - acquired citizenship and are considered 'natural born citizens'.

Also in 1872, the Supreme Court used the 'subject to the jurisdiction' phrase to exclude citizenship for 'children of ministers, consuls'

In 1898 in United States v. Wong Kim Ark - the Supreme Court addressed the issue of defining 'natural born citizen' and 'citizen' but rather than define the terms, deferred to English Common Law - which defined all children born in england as citizens, regardless of the parent's citizenship.

John McCain's status as a 'natural born citizen' is on less substantial legal ground than Obama's. Because is is very clear that the laws which define McCain's status were passed AFTER his birth and applied retroactively.

However, there is a very clear and easy process to challenge the qualifications for a President before his election - the January official election - not the November state elections.

No one has challenged Obama's eligibility according to the law.

Past Supreme Court decisions are very clear - once the Archivist of the United States has certified the state election results and appointment of electors, it is legal, it is over and there is no challenge possible except in the joint session of Congress to count the ballots.

The most recent decision affirming this was in 2000 with the Supreme Court ruling on the Florida election.

Basically, if anyone believes that Obama's election can now be challenged, he also believes that George Bush's 2000 election can still be challenged.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:46 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 16):

And again, where is Falcon with his "not this shit again?" picture?

Big version: Width: 300 Height: 391 File size: 28kb
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kc135topboom
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:51 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 16):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
None of you guys understand how the US Military, or the UCMJ works.

I'm not sure you do!



Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
Well, it would appear that this one misguided individual does actually represent KC135TopBoom, who claims to be ex-military.

Damon, I have nothing to prove to someone who may be an ambulance chaser.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Actually Obama himself is doing a good job himself to prove it. Have you seen his approval ratings?



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
Even though I think he is a terrible president I do have to laugh at the people that say he is not a citizen and is a Muslim. It's pretty ignorant.

I have never said he is a muslim. Any muslim would never think about attemding the good Rev. Wright's church.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 25):
Republicans crave the "God figure" - the all perfect leader. Democrats don't believe in such fantasies and recognize that Obama is man and will make mistakes.

I don't know any Republican who treats BHO as a god. Maybe the Anti-Christ, but certaintly not a god. I don't know many democrats who believe BHO will make a mistake.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:54 pm



Quoting Afterburner (Reply 21):
Isn't that called 'discrimination'?

No it is not discrimination. It is in the Constitution that the president must be a 'natural born citizen'. Many if not most nations have similar qualifications for the top office.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 26):
It is written in the constitution. The idea is to help ensure that the President does not have loyalty to another country and doesn't represent the interests of. That is how I was taught it and how I understand it to be.

While being a 'natural born citizen' is written into the Constitution, and your understanding of the concept is correct - the specifics are not.

Like many things in the Constitution 'natural born citizen' was not defined. The US Supreme Court has said in several decisions that the Legislative Branch has sole authority to define citizenship, and by one decision I listed above, natural born citizen.

There is some evidence in the Federalist Papers and in some other writings at the time that the debate over the status of slaves was the blame for this imprecise definition.

The authors of the Constitution had a tough job. To guarantee and ensure the rights of some people of the United States, but to deny those rights to other in this country. The surviving documents are also pretty clear that they left it to future generations to make specific detailed definitions of roles and terms if necessary.

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 21):
Why can't someone who is a legal child of a US citizen but (unfortunately) wasn't born on US soil can't be a POTUS?

They can be President of the United States according to current law, and the law in 1974/75 when my children were born in the Philippines - while I was on active duty with the US Navy.

Both Barak Obama and John McCain would be qualified for office under the same laws if Obama were actually born in Kenya.
 
mt99
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:06 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 26):
Who is this guy guy?

guy guy?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):

I don't know any Republican who treats BHO as a god. Maybe the Anti-Christ, but certaintly not a god. I

They are the ones calling him a "Savior". Nobody else does.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
I don't know many democrats who believe BHO will make a mistake.

Nothing in an absolute - again part of this whole craving for a "perfect leader" - Paging Dr. Freud.

I am an Obama supporter - but there are thing i disagree with him. And would not call him a mistake by any means.

Contrary to what you believe, you can support someone by embracing 75% of his/her views.

Its either supporting someone that you agree with 75% of the time (Obama), or someone that you agree with 5% of the time (ie Palin and friends)

Gray exists. Nothing is Black and White.
Step into my office, baby
 
michlis
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:10 pm

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 31):
Gray exists. Nothing is Black and White



That's not entirely accurate. Lawyers tend to blur the line between black and white, but that doesn't mean it isn't so.

[Edited 2009-07-15 09:18:15]
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
slider
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:41 pm

I wonder and ask aloud why his orders to deploy were revoked now. Curious, isn’t it?

I thought his comment here is actually quite thoughtful and it does raise the point that remains to be answered.

Quote:
"[Then] any order coming out of the presidency or his chain of command is illegal. Should I deploy, I would essentially be following an illegal [order]. If I happened to be captured by the enemy in a foreign land, I would not be privy to the Geneva Convention protections," he said.

It’s real simple to end this debate now: Obama produces a birth certificate. Period. That’s it. Just release records. The highest public servant in the land who refuses to acknowledge any request for ANY legitimate info that should be in the public domain. Magically, I’m sure they’ll appear someday in his presidential library, right?

Funny how all of his records haven’t been released.

Quote:
Kindergarten records, his Punahou school records, his Occidental College records, his Columbia University records, his Columbia thesis, his Harvard Law School records, his Harvard Law Review articles, his scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, his passport, his medical records, his files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100613
 
D L X
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:37 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
Damon, I have nothing to prove to someone who may be an ambulance chaser.

Really? That's your response?

Why can't you just answer the question: does all that evidence I showed you satisfy your questions about his citizenship?

Quoting Slider (Reply 33):
It%u2019s real simple to end this debate now: Obama produces a birth certificate.

You too. Refer to the examples in Reply 16.
 
afterburner
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:41 pm



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 24):
Keep in mind the US concept of birthright citizenship is based on a hybrid of jus sanguinis and jus soli. As a result a child born to a US citizen born overseas is still a US citizen eligible to serve as president.

What I understand is that somebody who was born outside US soil is eligible to be the POTUS if BOTH his/her parents are US citizens. He/she can't if only one of the parents is US citizen. Am I right? What about children of single parents?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 26):
It is written in the constitution. The idea is to help ensure that the President does not have loyalty to another country and doesn't represent the interests of. That is how I was taught it and how I understand it to be.

How about this story. An American woman married a Canadian man. Then the husband died before the baby was born. The baby was born in Canada then brought back to the US only weeks later. After that the child lives the rest of his life in the US and was raised like any other American children.

My question is, do you think the child's loyalty to the US is questionable? Do you think the child represents the interests of Canada?
 
rfields5421
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:55 pm



Quoting Afterburner (Reply 35):
What I understand is that somebody who was born outside US soil is eligible to be the POTUS if BOTH his/her parents are US citizens. He/she can't if only one of the parents is US citizen. Am I right? What about children of single parents?

There is currently no legal requirement for both parents to be US citizens, only one.

Also understand their is no current law defining 'natural born citizen' and that the US Congress has the power to create such a definition if there is a need. The Congress also has the power to define the qualifications for citizenship.

As in the case of John McCain, such a change can be applied retroactively.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:00 pm

Quoting DXing (Reply 8):
So the truth is he volunteered to serve and now has asked for a revocation. Quite different than an a soldier that is ordered to report and refuses the order.

Oh, is that kind of like quitting, but saying you're not a quitter?  

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
This Major saw the order as an illegal order, as he believes Obama is not qualified, under the US Constitution to be the POTUS.

Well, the Major isn't the judge and jury on that one. The American people are-whom, I might remind him and you-that you SERVE when you're in uniform, not the other way around.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Please don't speak for conservatives, as you would be wrong.

I wouldn't dare speak for a conservative. You guys are screwing up your movement and the GOP just fine on your own, supporting crackpot crap like this. You don't need any help in that department.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
McCain was born in a US Military Hospital on a US Base, in the Canal Zone in Panama to US Citizens. His father was assigned there during his USN career. According to the SCOTUS, that makes him a natueral born citizen.

So, I doubt this Major would have challanged any orders issued by a President McCain.

And Barack Obama was born in a Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. A fact that has been proven over, and over, and over........and over.........and over again. It's been proven, and only the wilfully blinded and wilfully hateful can't see or. Or, more conveniently, don't want to see it.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 26):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Correct, al Qaeda did.

That is for sure, but everyone leftist want to blame it on Bush and spare the terrorists from being offended.

I didn't know al Qaeda started the war in Iraq? You have something to back that up, Fallstaff.

Histry shows one man started it-George W. Bush. No one else. Not Saddam Hussein; not Osama bin Laden; not some phantom terrorist. President Bush.

It's one things to apologize for Mr. Bush constantly. It's another to try and rewrite history, and let him off the hook for starting a war that tarnished our reputation, cost 5,000 or so U.S. lives, thousands upon thousands of Iraqi lives, and billions of U.S. Dollars. That speaks with complete dishonor, and has no place in this nation.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
I don't know any Republican who treats BHO as a god.

Funny, I don't know any Democrat who does, either. What I DO know is that it is conservatives who are the ones constantly calling him "Messiah" and the like, not Democrats. You know-like you guys always do.

I DO know that conservatives have their political "God", and have been trying to reinvent who and what he really was to fit the myth they've created. His name was Ronald Reagan. I read of more Republicans worshiping at his "shrine" than you'll even hear of anyone doing the same for Obama.

So it's really the pot calling the kettle black.

Quoting Slider (Reply 33):
Obama produces a birth certificate.

Go to http://www.factcheck.org which is an independent, non-partisan group that has actually seen and touched the actual birth certificate. It's real. It's authentic. It's been verified. As I said, it's only the wilfully ignorant who simply want to find a way to overturn an election that they didn't like the results of who can't see this. You know-like you, Slider.

[Edited 2009-07-15 11:03:19]
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
slider
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:06 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 34):
You too. Refer to the examples in Reply 16.

LOL!

Oh yeah, the laser printer “certificate” that doesn’t match the syntax or form used in 1961.

And a newspaper “announcement” that has his name but not parents’ names? Classic.

I’m still waiting. As is America. All he has to do is produce the goods. Simple. Why so defensive?
 
Falcon84
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:12 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 38):

I’m still waiting. As is America.

YOUR waiting. America isn't. Most of America has gotten beyond that. I mean, they DID elect him president, didn't they? So for a large number of people, it isn't and never was an issue.

The only ones who are still trying to make it an issue are the same losers who looked for any reason to get rid of Bill Clinton between 1992 and 2000-bitter, disgrunteled conservatives, who cannot tolerate when Americans don't agree with whom they think should lead the nation. All you want out of this is to throw out an election and somehow change the will of the American people.

Well, it isn't going to happen, so maybe you should finally put a cork in it. The certificate is out there. It's real. It's legit. It's been gone over by the government (headed by George W. Bush, I might add), and independent groups.

Give it up. Move on with your life. Be a man, and stop this ridiculous charade already.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
D L X
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:12 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 38):
Oh yeah, the laser printer “certificate” that doesn’t match the syntax or form used in 1961.

Since you are so knowledgeable, why don't you show us all an example of an authentic 1961 Hawaii birth certificate so we can accurately compare? Otherwise, you're following the example of cracked pots making this argument.

Quoting Slider (Reply 38):
Why so defensive?

Because it's fun to call out stupid arguments.  Silly
 
michlis
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:21 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 39):
Move on with your life

Good advice.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:21 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 38):
And a newspaper “announcement” that has his name but not parents’ names? Classic.

You mean this announcement that has his parents names? Oopsie!

South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Arrow
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not Preside

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:24 pm

Quoting Afterburner (Reply 35):
My question is, do you think the child's loyalty to the US is questionable? Do you think the child represents the interests of Canada?

For a bagful of cash (Euros, please), I'll tell you his name. And reveal the details of the plot to get him installed in the White House. For a general idea, watch Rosemary's Baby.

You thought the war of 1812 was over, but I have it on good authority that the guy who signed the peace treaty for Canada was a Brit -- not born in Canada. In other words, no legal authority. Big grin

[Edited 2009-07-15 11:26:17]
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
dxing
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:41 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
Oh, is that kind of like quitting, but saying you're not a quitter?

I don't know, why don't you ask Justice Souter?

In this case the officer didn't have a chance to quit since he never started his deployment. A deployment that evidently was a voluntary choice of his own, and by the Armies own PR, he could decide to withdraw at anytime up until his deployment date. This is not an ordinary military person. He doesn't get paid and doesn't have regular duty dates or service requirements. Is he a nut? Sure sounds like it but he's not a quitter since he never started.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
D L X
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:49 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 44):
A deployment that evidently was a voluntary choice of his own, and by the Armies own PR, he could decide to withdraw at anytime up until his deployment date.

I hear ya, but it begs the question then - why the hell does he have a lawyer? What is he suing over? Sounds like he doesn't really have standing to sue to determine whether Obama is a natural born citizen or not.
 
Ken777
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:50 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 33):
I wonder and ask aloud why his orders to deploy were revoked now. Curious, isn’t it?

To be blunt - the yo-yo is unfit to be an officer, or even a NCO, much less be active in an important area of operations.

He simply needs to be given a Court Martial, busted to E-1, given 30 to 90 days in the brig and then a dishonorable discharge.

There are far too many Americans before him who have gone to war in the service of their country, who have been injured or killed, or simply endured their time in a combat zone. They set the standards and this bum doesn't come near that level.

He has disobeyed an order from his superiors to report for transit to a combat zone and that fact alone should be judged at his Court Martial.

In other news, the dumb SOBs who promoted this dud to Major should also be stocking up on Preparation H in anticipation of receiving comments on their brilliant decision.
 
kingairta
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:22 pm

Soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines are not shipped over seas or even allowed transfer from one command to another while an investigation is taking place. Once the investigation is complete and the article 32 hearing takes place then we will know if the yo-yo is going to face a courts-martial or not. This takes time it's not like the TV show Jag.

Here's what the Jag will probably be looking at.

ARTICLE 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

ARTICLE 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER
Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward his superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

ARTICLE 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION
Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.


ARTICLE 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

ARTICLE 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

Remember the article 32 investigation must go through first before a courts-martial may be scheduled.
 
Ken777
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:29 pm



Quoting Kingairta (Reply 47):
Here's what the Jag will probably be looking at.

What about looking at regs on avoiding orders to a combat zone?
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Soldier Won't Deploy: Claims Obama Not President

Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:48 pm



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 42):
Quoting Slider (Reply 38):
And a newspaper “announcement” that has his name but not parents’ names? Classic.

You mean this announcement that has his parents names? Oopsie!


No, THAT was classic!

You know, he shares his father's name... oops.
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