varigb707
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Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:34 pm

Here's the deal : my current Compaq Presario (Windows XP), is now running near its full capacity. I've owned this notebook for 5 years. Runs good and all.
It's now time for new machine. I have read and articles about Vista and Windows7. Opinions on both, aren't too good.
Last week, a co worker purchased a MacBook. Incredible how fast it boots and runs.
So, what do yaw'll think? Mac or Microsoft?
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
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golfradio
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:44 pm

Fedora 11. Boot to login screen in 20 seconds, free, amazing collection of free software and applications.

IMO Macs are highly overrated. The premium is completely unjustified. MS is bloatware. 4G hard drive and minimum 1G RAM for just booting the OS is just plain ridiculous.
Bring back the old site.
 
varigb707
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:48 pm



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
Fedora 11

any web address?
First, I said 'hey' and then I said 'now'. "Hey Now!" - Hank K.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:33 pm



Quoting Varigb707 (Thread starter):
It's now time for new machine. I have read and articles about Vista and Windows7. Opinions on both, aren't too good.

I'm not sure what you've been reading, but I've heard nothing but rave reviews about Win7 --- even from some Mac people.

As for Linux, I would recommend Ubuntu over Fedora for the uninitiated, but both are very good distros.
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golfradio
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:41 pm



Quoting VarigB707 (Reply 2):
any web address?

http://fedoraproject.org/

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
As for Linux, I would recommend Ubuntu over Fedora for the uninitiated

True. But fedora too has vastly improved it's desktop support in terms of more driver support.

http://www.ubuntu.com/
Bring back the old site.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:33 pm

Unless you are absolutely forced to use a lot of software most of the time which only exists for Windows, you will most probably fare much better with the Mac.

That the most frequent commentary of recent Windows-to-Mac switchers is "I should have done this much earlier!" could give you a hint.

There is no actual magic to the Mac and using a Mac doesn't turn you into a better human being – it may possibly turn you into a less stressed and less frustrated version of yourself, however.

Macs (and most other Apple products, for that matter) are simply made rather well, with the hardware and the software built to higher standards than the ones most people are accustomed to (there are actually PCs which are built to similar quality standards at a similar price, just no matching high-quality operating system to run on them).

Yes, there will still be occasional instances when things won't run as smoothly as they should, but in many more instances you'll find that you're spending much less effort on maintaining the computer and you're getting more done with less frustration. Top-notch support including the Apple Stores helps as well: Apple takes their responsibility for both hard- and software seriously; There is no mutual finger-pointing between separate manufacturers.

And, of course, you can still run all your Windows stuff on the Mac, either seamlessly from a virtual machine application (VMWare / Parallels Desktop / Virtual Box) or via dual boot natively (for games and such). The same is true for Linux as well, if you want to try it.


Windows 7 is just the second layer of lipstick on the same old Windows mess after the Vista layer apparently didn't stick. The substance remains pretty much the same. The problem is that Microsoft still doesn't know how to create something that is not a chronic or acute pain to use, no matter how much makeup they're sticking to it.


For a user who doesn't primarily want to explore the depths of his system, I would recommend against Linux as well. It is great if your computer itself is your hobby or if you want to run a major server facility, but for normal users it is just too difficult and limiting over the long haul.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:47 pm



Quoting Varigb707 (Thread starter):
I've owned this notebook for 5 years. Runs good and all.

Seems to me, you've answered your own question. I've always been a big subscriber to the belief, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You've apparently had very good results with a PC and Windows, why would you even consider changing to Apple/Mac?
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:54 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 6):
Seems to me, you've answered your own question. I've always been a big subscriber to the belief, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You've apparently had very good results with a PC and Windows, why would you even consider changing to Apple/Mac?

Having adapted to a chronic pain doesn't mean it's not a relief when that pain stops altogether.

The responses from most switchers speak for themselves in that regard.
 
austinairport
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:05 pm



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
Fedora 11. Boot to login screen in 20 seconds, free, amazing collection of free software and applications.

Hehe. I consider myself a Distro jocky, trying Fedora, OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, Debian, and others, and I have to say Ubuntu is great. My Dell laptop works amazingly well, with a Vista + Ubuntu Dual Boot.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
As for Linux, I would recommend Ubuntu over Fedora for the uninitiated, but both are very good distros.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

You could buy a new computer, and then take the old one, and install Linux, I mean.. what have you got to lose?  Smile
Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:21 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
Having adapted to a chronic pain doesn't mean it's not a relief when that pain stops altogether.

The responses from most switchers speak for themselves in that regard.


This is pretty painless to do on the mac, too:

sudo rm -r /

[Edited 2009-08-08 13:24:48]
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n229nw
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:03 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 6):
Quoting Varigb707 (Thread starter):
I've owned this notebook for 5 years. Runs good and all.

Seems to me, you've answered your own question. I've always been a big subscriber to the belief, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You've apparently had very good results with a PC and Windows, why would you even consider changing to Apple/Mac?

Or do what I did. I love my five-year-old Dell laptop--and partly because I HATE widescreens for word processing, reading pdfs, etc. (it's not about pixels, it's about actual size of the letters--4:3 rocks and I'd have to get a 17-inch screen to get the same height as my 14-inch 4:3...).

The original 80G hard drive was full. I bought a new 250 gig hard drive from new egg, another gigabyte of ram, and when I installed my old XP system on the new drive, I was careful to avoid all bloatware, etc. Now with 2G of RAM, my five-year-old boots and runs well over twice as fast as my wife's new Vista machine. All for about $120.

When some manufacturer goes back to offering a 4:3 model, they'll get my business immediately. Since that is unlikely, I may well switch to mac next time to avoid the newer Windows systems, but I'm planning to enjoy my old machine for another few years first!

[Edited 2009-08-08 14:06:32]
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:05 pm



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 9):
This is pretty painless to do on the mac, too:

sudo rm -r /

I think you'll find your pain quite substantial once you've found someone who'd do what you're telling him...!  mischievous 
 
itsjustme
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:10 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
Having adapted to a chronic pain doesn't mean it's not a relief when that pain stops altogether.

Give it a rest, will you? Geez, are you getting a commission to talk up Apple or what? How does "I've owned this notebook for 5 years. Runs good and all." translate to someone having adapted to a chronic pain???

Oh, and here's some interesting reading for you:

http://www.crn.com/security/21910032...d=RJZZ1WEGG11SPQE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN

Apple Patch Fixes 18 Flaws In Mac OS X

By Stefanie Hoffman, ChannelWeb

2:20 PM EDT Thu. Aug. 06, 2009
Apple (NSDQ:AAPL) released a security update Wednesday, repairing 18 holes in its Mac OS X operating system, including several critical imaging errors that enabled hackers to take over victims' computers when they view a maliciously crafted image file.

The Apple update, which upgrades the Mac OS X platform to 10.5.8, repaired an array of imaging flaws, as well as vulnerabilities affecting the Safari Web browser. The flaws paved the way for hackers to launch malicious code remotely on users' computers.
 
Gofly
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:11 pm

As a Mac switcher this year, all I can say is: switch to Mac and you'll never buy a Windows PC ever again. I promise you.

From a user's perspective, the Mac is light years ahead of Windows for the very simple reason of it works. I have never had a problem and computing is bliss!

I feel like I've just completed Alcoholics Anonymous or something...  Wink
Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
 
austinairport
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:41 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 12):
http://www.crn.com/security/21910032...d=RJZZ1WEGG11SPQE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN

Apple Patch Fixes 18 Flaws In Mac OS X

By Stefanie Hoffman, ChannelWeb

2:20 PM EDT Thu. Aug. 06, 2009
Apple (NSDQ:AAPL) released a security update Wednesday, repairing 18 holes in its Mac OS X operating system, including several critical imaging errors that enabled hackers to take over victims' computers when they view a maliciously crafted image file.

The Apple update, which upgrades the Mac OS X platform to 10.5.8, repaired an array of imaging flaws, as well as vulnerabilities affecting the Safari Web browser. The flaws paved the way for hackers to launch malicious code remotely on users' computers.

Honestly, all platforms have security flaws, some more than others (Windows)  Big grin
Doesn't Apple base there OS's on the Linux Kernel? JW. I thought I heard something like that.
Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:03 pm



Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 14):
Honestly, all platforms have security flaws, some more than others (Windows)

Indeed. It is standard practice on any system to release security updates with some regularity.

There's a difference between theoretical flaws and actual exploits waiting "in the wild" to attack.

Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 14):
Doesn't Apple base there OS's on the Linux Kernel? JW. I thought I heard something like that.

No, the OS X kernel has nothing to do with Linux. OS X is a Unix (an officially certified one, at that) similar to Linux, but the kernels are very different. (OS X uses a Mach kernel with a BSD personality layer on top - it is a unique combination.)
 
Springbok747
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:14 pm

If Windows is working for you stick with it. I've been using XP for the last 6 years without any issues.

Quoting Gofly (Reply 13):
From a user's perspective, the Mac is light years ahead of Windows for the very simple reason of it works.

If it 'just works' then why does a website called 'Macfixit' exist? Obviously the whole 'it just works' argument is BS because it doesn't. It also has problems like any other computer.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
Having adapted to a chronic pain doesn't mean it's not a relief when that pain stops altogether.

The responses from most switchers speak for themselves in that regard.

אני תומך בישראל
 
austinairport
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:37 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
No, the OS X kernel has nothing to do with Linux. OS X is a Unix (an officially certified one, at that) similar to Linux, but the kernels are very different. (OS X uses a Mach kernel with a BSD personality layer on top - it is a unique combination.)

Ahhhh! Thanks for clarifying.  Smile
I think I was thinking Unix, however saying Linux. My bad. LOL.
I kinda think Windows became a victim of its own success. Meaning that with every new release the consumer expected perfection.
And that's why I feel that Apple is having its little moment in the sun.
Will it suffer the same fate as Microsoft? Doubtful. As long as they play the game right..
Just really wish Apple would go Open Source, I'd be sold.
Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:39 am



Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 17):
Just really wish Apple would go Open Source, I'd be sold.

Actually, the OS X kernel xnu is open source and is publicized in the Darwin project. You can look at the sources online if you want: Open Source - Releases

Apple's WebKit browser engine remains an open source project which had originally started as KHTML in the OSS community before Apple massively expanded it and which now powers quite a number of non-Apple browsers as well (Chrome, for instance).

There are various other open source projects Apple maintains or has contributed to (the CUPS printing service, launchd, gcc, ...).

And, of course, Mac OS X comes with a large number of open source tools from the GNU family which makes up most of the command-line environment in most contemporary Unix(oid) systems. These tools are the main reason why you can use Mac OS X like almost any other Unix system on the command line and why many useful features are compatible across many Unix systems.

I actually use my Macs to develop software which is then deployed under Linux – OS X is a pretty good member of the Unix family.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:44 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
I think you'll find your pain quite substantial once you've found someone who'd do what you're telling him...!   

Shouldn't be hard. I can bet that 90+% of Mac users have never seen a Unix shell, let alone what that command does.

With simplicity comes ignorance.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:58 am



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 19):
Shouldn't be hard. I can bet that 90+% of Mac users have never seen a Unix shell, let alone what that command does.

With simplicity comes ignorance.

The thing is that hardly any Mac users ever need to see the command line.

"Ignorance" as you choose to call it for most "civilian" users is simply the freedom of staying in control of your computer with little if any effort and no need to mess around with the inner mechanisms. (The horrendous registry which plagues users directly or indirectly under Windows is fortunately not present on a Mac – its functions are fulfilled by other mechanisms which are more stable and easier to maintain.)

That more and more IT professionals are using Macs precisely because of the powerful infrastructure under the hood merely completes the point: I as a relatively experienced developer can mess around with the internals, but as a user at the same time I enjoy not being forced to do that more than actually necessary.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:37 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
its functions are fulfilled by other mechanisms which are more stable and easier to maintain.)

The problem of users that switch to Mac to begin with because they disliked their PC, is they rarely maintained their Windows PC to begin with. They load lots of crap onto it, don't use an anti-virus, don't use a firewall, browse shady sites, install whatever the hell they can get their hands on, and wonder why they have such a horrible time using their system. I've seen people with upwards of 15(!) toolbars in their browsers who can barely see a web page because they install anything and everything that has a toolbar installation attached to it. Yet, according to you, all those toolbars would be MS's fault for allowing 3rd party plugins into the browser to begin with. Baloney!

[Edited 2009-08-08 19:38:37]
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austinairport
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:39 am



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 21):
Baloney!

Do you mean Bologna?  Big grin

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 21):
The problem of users that switch to Mac to begin with because they disliked their PC, is they rarely maintained their Windows PC to begin with. They load lots of crap onto it, don't use an anti-virus, don't use a firewall, browse shady sites, install whatever the hell they can get their hands on, and wonder why they have such a horrible time using their system.

Amen!
They dont know the magic of AVG Free, CCleaner, and other awesome freewares, designed to keep your system running at full capacity.
Plus, they never empty there recycle bin, the NEVER defrag their HD, and the usually enjoy installing spyware!
 Smile
Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
 
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akiss20
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:46 am



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 21):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
its functions are fulfilled by other mechanisms which are more stable and easier to maintain.)

The problem of users that switch to Mac to begin with because they disliked their PC, is they rarely maintained their Windows PC to begin with. They load lots of crap onto it, don't use an anti-virus, don't use a firewall, browse shady sites, install whatever the hell they can get their hands on, and wonder why they have such a horrible time using their system. I've seen people with upwards of 15(!) toolbars in their browsers who can barely see a web page because they install anything and everything that has a toolbar installation attached to it. Yet, according to you, all those toolbars would be MS's fault for allowing 3rd party plugins into the browser to begin with. Baloney!

This may be true for some, but not all. I recently switched to mac for college, after having grown up with 98/Me(UGH!)/XP all my life. I started using computers when I was 5 (have a telecom engineer as a father, what do you expect?) so I def. know how to maintain them. I still have loved the switch and would not go back for anything. But I do recognize that different systems have advantages for different people. I just find that the everyday experience with OS X is better; things just work. Now I have to credit Windows, they make a relatively stable OS for the incredibly wide range of hardware it must work on. Windows doesn't have the luxury of both making the hardware and software, which allows apple to make things that much more efficient and well put together. It doesn't change the fact that imo, apple just delivers a superior product. Plus with Bootcamp and VMWare/Parallels, what is really the disadvantage sans price?
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
Phoenix9
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:58 am

I've mentioned this before, but ah what the heck:

http://www.backwater-productions.net/_images/_Funny/Mac_vs_PC.jpg


Choice is yours.
Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
 
ipodguy7
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:44 am

Apple for sure! Get the new MacBook Pro its great!
AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/B6/AS/AC/FI/NY/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ/JL
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:36 am



Quoting Phoenix9 (Reply 24):
I've mentioned this before, but ah what the heck:

It beautifully illustrates the prejudices many people have who've never touched a Mac.

Reality is quite different, however, not least evidenced by the growing number of IT professionals switching to Macs.
 
Superfly
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:48 am



Quoting Varigb707 (Thread starter):

I live in the 'Mecca' of Apple/MacIntosh and even I'll tell you to stick with Microsoft and avoid Apple at ALL COST!
Apples are cute little Fisher Price-like toys but unfortunately very expensive, limited compatibility and only useful if your are some sort of graphic designer that's actually getting paid.
Otherwise, stick with what the rest of the adults are using which is Microsoft.
Can you wait till Windows9 to come out?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:10 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
I live in the 'Mecca' of Apple/MacIntosh and even I'll tell you to stick with Microsoft and avoid Apple at ALL COST!
Apples are cute little Fisher Price-like toys but unfortunately very expensive, limited compatibility and only useful if your are some sort of graphic designer that's actually getting paid.
Otherwise, stick with what the rest of the adults are using which is Microsoft.

Come on, not everybody shares your fascination with the 1970s and their kind of technology...!
 
Superfly
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:22 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
Come on, not everybody shares your fascination with the 1970s and their kind of technology...!

True.
Apple is the computer from the 70s. Most of us in our age group started out with Apple when we were kids back in the 70s & early 80s.
Now that we're all grown up, we use Microsoft.  Smile

Notice how most Apple users have to boast about their computer as if they just earned a gold star sticker after winning a spelling-bee.  Silly
Bring back the Concorde
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:02 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Apple is the computer from the 70s. Most of us in our age group started out with Apple when we were kids back in the 70s & early 80s.
Now that we're all grown up, we use Microsoft.

In the sense that "grownup" stuff differs from "kid" stuff in that it has to be compromised, tedious, disillusioning and frustrating?

Maybe it's just me, but growing up has not felt quite that badly to me, so I still have higher expectations.

I have followed both Apple and Microsoft since the 8-Bit age and I have myself been developing hardware and software all throughout. It gives you some perspective on how the different manufacturers are working, what their priorities are and where they're missing crucial chances.

And the stark contrast has always been that Apple was a product-driven company, trying to push the envelope, trying to make computers as easy to use as possible, fulfilling as many of the promises of the technology as possible. They got into trouble when they lost track of that through the 1990s and they resurged when Jobs resumed that course.

Microsoft, on the other hand, always was a marketing-driven company; They latched on to whatever they saw as an opportunity to make money and generate power, with the products being a mere afterthought that just had to be filled in somehow, usually by making second-rate copies of existing stuff. Infamously in several instances they've even resorted to presenting completely nonexistent vapourware to suffocate sales of more creative competitors when they had fallen behind again.

And it showed, and it does so to this day. The PC manufacturers are almost totally dependent on Microsoft today, and with an unescapable mediocre software basis they've got little chance but to lower their own standards accordingly, which they do.

Cheap? Yes. Do you get what you've paid for? You bet!


These distinctions may sound esoteric, but the more you know about technology and the more you know the actual events in the computer industry, the better you can connect the dots leading from the completely different attitudes to the properties (and problems) of their respective products.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Notice how most Apple users have to boast about their computer as if they just earned a gold star sticker after winning a spelling-bee.

And when people are telling you that they've made good experiences, your conclusion from that is what exactly...?

An important point is that most Mac users today know Windows as well (and many at least occasionally still use Windows on their Macs), but very few Windows users know the Mac from experience. So who, do you think, usually has the more valid comparison?

The utterly tragic thing today is that most people have never known anything but Windows and they have resigned to the conclusion that "this is how computers just are", as if the Windows overhead was the unescapable cost of doing things. But people with a bit more technical insight know how specific to Windows many limitations, problems and frustrations actually are, as do most people who have simply used both for a significant length of time.

It is really unfortunate that Apple is the only practical competition there is to the near-monopoly erected by Microsoft (mostly due to a stupendously bad deal made by IBM when they built the first IBM PC back in the 1980s) – even while Apple exploit the technology with a lot more skill, they still have their problems and there should be even better products around as well.


As I said before: Macs don't make anyone a better person per se, just in many cases a person with less time and nerves wasted on keeping the computer running and more leisure for the things in life which actually matter more.

Hence many Mac users' satisfied expression.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:09 pm

I have to say, for people who claim to be grownups, I see a lot of puerile "Mine is better than yours" back and forth here. Why do people have to be so extreme as to say one is 100% absolutely the only choice. I would think that in this day and age we would realize that both systems have their advantages, and ultimately it is an individual choice as to what the user should get. Windows has its problems, but also its strengths, as does Apple. More useful information than bickering is sharing what you feel to be the strengths of your chosen OS and allowing the OP to gain tangible information regarding both systems so he can make a more educated choice. Quit the childish BS and grow up, jeez.

@ the OP:
As a once windows user turned Mac, if you have any questions regarding the two systems or any questions relating to the actual original topic, I would be more than willing to try and answer them to the best of my ability.
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:16 pm



Quoting Gofly (Reply 13):
As a Mac switcher this year, all I can say is: switch to Mac and you'll never buy a Windows PC ever again. I promise you.

Ah relax... I've owned a MAC for two years now, and it's great but Windows XP is very good too I think, and I could easily see myself buying a Windows computer again next time. Especially if Windows 7 is as good as I've heard.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:19 pm



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 31):
Why do people have to be so extreme as to say one is 100% absolutely the only choice.

I don't. Hence my qualifications in the recommendations I make.

But sheer prejudices with no basis in experience or actual knowledge don't serve anybody and need to be corrected.
 
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akiss20
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:22 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 33):

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 31):
Why do people have to be so extreme as to say one is 100% absolutely the only choice.

I don't. Hence my qualifications in the recommendations I make.

But sheer prejudices with no basis in experience or actual knowledge don't serve anybody and need to be corrected.

I didn't mean to imply that everyone who posted in the thread has taken it that far, and I apologize if it sounded like that. I was more speaking to a few specific posters.
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:24 pm



Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 34):
I didn't mean to imply that everyone who posted in the thread has taken it that far, and I apologize if it sounded like that. I was more speaking to a few specific posters.

No problem.  Smile
 
itsjustme
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:31 pm

One thing I have noticed about Mac users compared to PC users: Mac users have a strong tendency to bash PC/Microsoft in order to talk up their computer choice. PC users appear to be less apt to bash Mac and simply say they're happy with their PC and have no desire to change to Mac. I wonder why that is...
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:54 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 36):
One thing I have noticed about Mac users compared to PC users: Mac users have a strong tendency to bash PC/Microsoft in order to talk up their computer choice. PC users appear to be less apt to bash Mac and simply say they're happy with their PC and have no desire to change to Mac. I wonder why that is...

Mostly it is due to most Mac users being former Windows PC users or having first-hand experience with Windows PCs who know what they're talking about, while relatively few Windows PC users know any other platforms from experience.

The alternative would be that Mac users are just automatically bad people telling lies. But is that really the more plausible explanation here?

Maybe they actually have a point, as consistent as their comments are.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:39 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 37):
The alternative would be that Mac users are just automatically bad people telling lies. But is that really the more plausible explanation here?

No, of course it isn't. I am leaning toward, perhaps Mac/Apple users are more passionate about their computers than PC users. I am probably guilty of the same thing when someone asks me about browser preference. I can't say, "I use Firefox" and leave it at that. I tend to toss in a little IE bashing as well as explain why Firefox is my browser of choice.

Maybe some day I'll see what it is about the Mac that has some new users saying they wished they had made the change sooner. But for now, I'm staying with my PCs and am looking forward to giving Windows 7 a try. Aside from being happy with my 20 some odd year experience with PCs, I can't justify spending $1400 on a new Mac when I can get a PC for half that price

I just had a thought...does Apple loan out Macs for potential buyers to try first? If not, maybe they should. If the Mac is as addictive to first time users as it's rumored to be, maybe a free trial period wouldn't be a bad marketing ploy for Apple to try. The potential buyer could leave a deposit that covers the cost of the machine should it not be returned in the proper condition (or not returned at all), and try it out for "x" amount of time (maybe a 24 or 48 hour period).
 
austinairport
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:06 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Notice how most Apple users have to boast about their computer as if they just earned a gold star sticker after winning a spelling-bee. Silly

Ha. I have a friend who has a Mac, and the only the thing he ever talks about is how he can make his computer speak..... WOW! I'm so jealous.  Wink
Now lets talk about specs, hmm.. I win!  Smile

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 38):
I can't justify spending $1400 on a new Mac when I can get a PC for half that price

LOL. The funny thing about that is, the PC (half the price of the Mac) will prolly have 2 x the specs (as the Mac)!

Really that's the main reason I'm on a PC. Cheap.
I can't afford to drop that much money into a computer than... well, lets be honest, Isn't as great as people talk it up.
Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
 
gift4tbone
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:38 pm

I don't normally post in the non-aviation forum. But this is a topic I feel very strongly about, hopefully I can give you my 2 cents without coming across to harsh or opinionated.

I have been using the RC version of win7 for about 6 weeks now, and I have to say it is light years ahead of vista. I didn't really have any issues with vista, except the minimum memory of 2Gigs if you wanted it to run smoothly. However win7, boots faster, runs smoother, and I hate to say it as a hardcore firefox user, but IE8 x64 runs 3-4x faster than firefox (on win7 only). Though I still use firefox.

I have used macs on several occasions, and well I just don't see the hype. Simple? Sure. Easy to use? Sure, but so is windows because EVERYONE already knows how to use it. The price just doesn't justify it for me. I compared laptops at bestbuy a few months ago, and it was outrageous the cost difference. And not one MACbook at bestbuy had more than 1G of memory. Some might say they only need 1G. I call BS. Sure vista runs smooth on 2G, but have you tried 4g? Light years smoother. I imagine OS X would react the same.

I have recently installed ubuntu, as I purchased the new Palm Pre phone, and am curious to learn to code linux. However as I can't get the drivers for my wireless card working yet, I haven't had enough experience to form any kind of accurate opinion.

I do plan on making my system into a tri-boot, with OS X, just to get a true comparison going, based on my needs, and uses.

I tend to agree with those who stated "If it ain't broke...." you know the rest. Vista may have been buggy to begin with, but MS fixed most of those bugs, and Win7, will become the XP of the next 10 years.

In case anyone is curious of my system specs:
C2D E7200 OC @ 3.18
5GB DDR2 800
Geforce 8600GTS (512MB DDR3)

-Tony@PVD
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Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:50 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 38):
I just had a thought...does Apple loan out Macs for potential buyers to try first?

No, they don't. But there are companies that do:
http://www.smalldog.com/rentals
http://computerrentals.com/Which_Mac_Should_I_Rent.php
http://computerrentals.com/products/Mac/

Apple also has a 14 day return policy, although that is not intended to be used exactly that way.

If you've got an Apple Store near you, you might just want to make an appointment for getting an introduction (or just drop by).

Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 39):
Ha. I have a friend who has a Mac, and the only the thing he ever talks about is how he can make his computer speak.....

Yeah, I'm sure that's all he's talking about.  cool 

Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 39):
WOW! I'm so jealous.
Now lets talk about specs, hmm.. I win!

I see what the dynamic between you two is – at least from your end. And I gather he doesn't have a Mac Pro workstation.

Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 39):
The funny thing about that is, the PC (half the price of the Mac) will prolly have 2 x the specs (as the Mac)!

"Prolly". Yeah. Sure. Just not in the real world, when you actually start to compare in earnest. Such comparisons have been done many times, and in practice you simply get what you pay for, here as there.

Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 39):
Really that's the main reason I'm on a PC. Cheap.

Okay. Nothing beats PCs in sheer sticker price (as long as actual return value is not among your priorities).

Quoting AustinAirport (Reply 39):
I can't afford to drop that much money into a computer than... well, lets be honest, Isn't as great as people talk it up.

And you base this judgment exactly on what...?


Just to be clear: Having a severely constrained budget, wanting a gaming machine as cheaply as possible or being determined to make the computer a hobby of yours by tinkering with the hardware configuration all the time can be very much valid priorities which can indeed lead you to a PC.

The thing is just that most people just want a computer to get things done, and that is where a Mac will in most cases serve you better, with less aggravation, less noise, less power consumption and so on.

All features you might not be interested in when only comparing "specs" (which actually extend quite a bit beyond just nominal CPU clock frequency and gaming frame rates), but in real life it matters a lot more how long it takes you to actually get your stuff done and how much time you have to spend on babysitting the machine instead of using it productively or for fun.

The difference is mostly in the software: When using Mac OS X, the paradigm is less "we've just made it that way – get used to it!" and more "we thought it should really be that simple".

As a developer myself I know first hand how difficult it is to make complex mechanisms seem simple and easy to use without sacrificing functionality, but Apple spends substantial effort and resources on exactly that goal. As a developer I appreciate good work when I see it, so this is a significant reason why I like using Macs (apart from having a heavy-duty Unix infrastructure under the hood).
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:02 pm



Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 40):
I tend to agree with those who stated "If it ain't broke...." you know the rest.

Chalk up one more for the "I don't know it, but I still advise against it" camp...

Ask yourself: Is that really good advice? Especially in view of a massive Windows-band-aid industry that shouldn't need to exist in the first place?
 
itsjustme
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:23 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
Chalk up one more for the "I don't know it, but I still advise against it" camp...

I have a feeling I am being lumped into that "I don't know it, but I still advise against it" camp. If so, you're wrong. I don't know anything about the Lexus ES either but if someone were to say to me, "I've owned a Toyota Camry for 5 years and it's never given me a bit of trouble and it's time for a new car, should I buy another Camry or should I buy a Lexus ES?", I am going to recommend he buy the Camry.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:35 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 43):
I don't know anything about the Lexus ES either but if someone were to say to me, "I've owned a Toyota Camry for 5 years and it's never given me a bit of trouble and it's time for a new car, should I buy another Camry or should I buy a Lexus ES?", I am going to recommend he buy the Camry.

Why, if you don't know anything about the Lexus?
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:36 pm



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 36):
One thing I have noticed about Mac users compared to PC users: Mac users have a strong tendency to bash PC/Microsoft in order to talk up their computer choice. PC users appear to be less apt to bash Mac and simply say they're happy with their PC and have no desire to change to Mac. I wonder why that is...

True. As I've said I have owned a Mac for almost two years now, but I am not one of those that swear to Mac. I actually think I prefer Windows, so not everyone are the way you described but I agree with you that many Mac users tend to bash Windows a lot more than the other way around.
 
itsjustme
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:54 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 44):
Why, if you don't know anything about the Lexus?

For precisely that reason. I don't know anything about the Lexus but in the scenario I have presented, I DO know that my friend has owned a Camry for 5 years and has gotten excellent service from it. Why in the world would I steer (<-- pun intended...) him away from staying with a Camry?
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:54 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 44):
Why, if you don't know anything about the Lexus?

I think I can reword that as:

Person X owns a Camry, and may or may not love his Camry. He wants a new car, and would prefer a new Camry, but looks at other options, so he asks his friends for what to buy. His friends say that he should get a Lexus because the Lexus has a 100,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty, and free maintenance for the life of that warranty. However, the Lexus is 3 times more expensive, but only real added value of owning it will be that it's a flashier car and makes him look more important than he really is. His credit is good, so he can therefore afford a loan for either vehicle.


So the question here is this: Should Person X really spend 3 time the amount of money for all of that, when owning the Camry will, more than likely, end up costing less, considering loan interest, and scheduled maintenance?

[Edited 2009-08-09 16:55:15]
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Klaus
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:43 am



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 46):
For precisely that reason. I don't know anything about the Lexus but in the scenario I have presented, I DO know that my friend has owned a Camry for 5 years and has gotten excellent service from it. Why in the world would I steer (<-- pun intended...) him away from staying with a Camry?



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 47):
So the question here is this: Should Person X really spend 3 time the amount of money for all of that, when owning the Camry will, more than likely, end up costing less, considering loan interest, and scheduled maintenance?

To both of you: When I'm being asked an "A or B?" question, I either know both A and B and then I can give actual advice in one or the other direction, or if I only know somehing about just one alternative but nothing about the other I abstain from trying to give advice in either direction – at most I can give additional information about what I do know and leave the decision to the person asking after informing him/herself about the other alternative.

Preconceived notions such as the ones presented above ("Macs just cost more without any real benefits") aren't very valuable advice as long as they are based on nothing but hearsay circulating among people who've never done an actual reality check. (And ignoring the completely different opinions of people who have!)

This way it's just a vicious circle of people not knowing anything else, hence recommending the only thing they know and nobody ever having a chance to find something better, even when it actually does exist after all. Wouldn't that be a bit sad?
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Apple Or Microsoft. Which One Should I Choose?

Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:35 am



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 46):
Why in the world would I steer (<-- pun intended...) him away from staying with a Camry?

There are two different kinds of ignorance:
1. You know what you don't know.
2. You don't know what you don't know.

The first kind implies an intellectual curiosity. There is a desire to learn, to expand, to improve.

The second carries the baggage of complete ignorance and a total lack of desire to learn, and to experiment.

The human race did not get to where it is by following the first option. So it is with cars as well as with computers.

To put it differently:
If a person always lived in the sewers and never knew there was another way to live, they'd be completely content dealing with the crap that flowed under their feet.

However, as soon as they discovered a way to live outside of the sewers, they'd at least try it, no? And the odds are overwhelmingly good that they'd choose to live outside of the sewers as soon as they could.

And so it is with Windows and Macs. Some will want to return to their sewer-laden PCs/Windows. Most never do- and never do enthusiastically.

As for the Camry versus Lexus choice, you might want to suggest a Tata. It does the same thing as a Camry- only cheaper yet!

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