propilot83
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 2:41 am

Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:40 am

Congress is now in recess until the fall of this year. Once they are back in session, their first top priority is to pass health care legislation/reform. Then whats next, Obama mentioned that the House has already proposed an Energy Bill that is pending in the Senate right now. Financial Regulatory Reform is another hot topic to pass hopefully by the end of this year. Next year 2010, Obama will be working on Immigration Reform. You see the President stated in Mexico a few days ago, that Immigration Reform has to wait, because we cant just bundle all these proposals together and eventually fail on all of them. So Obama's first priority is to pass Health Care Reform in which I am totally for 100%, then the Energy Bill will be next, we'll have to see what that is about, then Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession). I watch CSPAN and CSPAN 2, its amazing how our government works and what they really do, dont be fooled. People are really creating myths about the current health care reform in townhall meetings that arent even true, the final conclusion is, God do people in this country really want Health Care Reform? I mean I dont understand, Obama is a great President, he's trying to give out the right word and ignorant people are just hell bent over it. I want cheaper co-pays and less deductibles....dont you? I want cheaper premiums....dont you?
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:58 am



Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Energy Bill

I hope they push some wind energy. I live in Oklahoma, and there is too much flat land and waaay too much wind here not to harness it.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
People are really creating myths about the current health care reform in townhall meetings that arent even true, the final conclusion is, God do people in this country really want Health Care Reform?

I don't get it either. Death Panels? Pshhh....

I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE you that these people, when faced with a reality, would take the cheaper/free healthcare in a heartbeat. Heck, I would! Healthcare is expensive! Medication is expensive!

But it all a boils down to this, and I'm going to make a blunt statement here, but I think much of these "arguments" against anything liberal/democrat are because 1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior. It's sad, but I don't think that the US, well, some parts, can take that much change at one time because of their fears. They know it's not PC to display those fears outright, so they are masking them with a lot of these demonstrations and outright disrespectful behavior.

For those who want to say it's not disrespectful, how many of you would show up to an event with an elected official and start yelling or start booing?

Sorry, but I think this all centers around anything differing from WASP.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:05 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
But it all a boils down to this, and I'm going to make a blunt statement here, but I think much of these "arguments" against anything liberal/democrat are because 1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior. It's sad, but I don't think that the US, well, some parts, can take that much change at one time because of their fears. They know it's not PC to display those fears outright, so they are masking them with a lot of these demonstrations and outright disrespectful behavior.

Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

We've had a female SOS before, we've had a black SOS. We've had a black, female SOS before.

Sotomayor, while qualified to be an Associate Justice, has not, too me and several others, reconcilied her previous statements about her race and experience with those during her confirmation hearings. She is an elitist.

What is fueling this wild behaviour is what we see. Our country is transforming right before our eyes. Banks being nationalized. Car manufactuers being nationalized. Attempts to nationalize healthcare. Attacks on our prosperity by by heaping new energy taxes under the guise of 'saving the planet'.

As for healthcare reform: read the bill. I have. You think you're premiums will go down? Yes, your healthcare premium may go down, but your taxes will go up. Quality healthcare...wait in line. Do you like your Anthem, Aetna, UHC or any other...say goodbye, because once the insurance company tries to amend you coverage, the policy is null and void.

Obama and gang are talking out their butts. They are trying to ram his thing down our throats, but we're starting to choke. If this is such a fantastic bill, why did they try to pass it without debate or the light of day?

Obama's priorities are to move the country as far left as possible by pushing entitlements to as many folks as possible. It's that simple. People will get hooked on entitlements.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
For those who want to say it's not disrespectful, how many of you would show up to an event with an elected official and start yelling or start booing?

All I have to say is: Code Pink, PETA, Earth First, etc. These groups routinely disrupt political meetings for their agenda.

And what about energy? Any bill that limits our ability to produce energy within our own borders or off our own coast, will limit our growth and leave us depenent on foreign sources. I'm all for new forms of energy, but how about we invent, build and deploy the new energy before we kill off oil? And what about nuclear? Haven't heard much there. Wind power, all for it, but what about the Kennedys?

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession)

Recessions will occur. They have to occur. It's part of the business cycle. It's when government tries to prevent recessions or lessen their effects that they are deep and painful. Financial reform is a buzzterm for 'making it all fair'. Unfortunately, too many folks in power conflate 'fair' with 'equal'. If legislation attempts to make us all equal, we are doomed.

There are criminals out there and they need to be dealt with, but overhauling the financial system is not the way to get them.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Obama is a great President,

Really, you can say that after 200 or so days? I think he's out of his element.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
flymia
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:59 pm



Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
I mean I dont understand, Obama is a great President, he's trying to give out the right word and ignorant people are just hell bent over it. I want cheaper co-pays and less deductibles....dont you? I want cheaper premiums....dont you?

Yea anything you save in that will go into your TAXES! Sure cheaper healthcare would be nice but I would much rather pay a bit more and get good healthcare, no waits, no lines, no weeks waiting list for an MRI or to see a hand specialist. I saw a specialist in two days I ask for blood work and got it. I have had MRI's the next day that is the way it supposed to be, but it wont be like that if this bill passes the way it is.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Next year 2010,

Hopefully the year all the moderates wake up, which they are and Republicans can gain some seats and maybe even control of one of the houses.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
then Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession)

This is a good thing? It was the democrats that thought the banks where not lending enough to the poor that got us in this mess to begin with. Free market is what has gotten the United States to where it is why would we want to regulate it more. Recessions are part of the economic cycle.

Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
an Energy Bill

I am all for an energy bill especially one with wind power and natural gas as long as it does not limit other means of production too much and tax it too the moon which we all know it probably will.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

 bigthumbsup   checkmark 
And they complained about the patriot act.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
All I have to say is: Code Pink, PETA, Earth First, etc. These groups routinely disrupt political meetings for their agenda.

Exactly! They did it the last 8 years why can;t we have our turn? No that means we must be a racist group that only hates President Obama because we hate blacks, Hispanics, and Women?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior. I

I really take little bit of offense to that statement I am a Hispanic registered republican, I hate Obama and hate Sotomayor does that mean I am racist??
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:20 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
I hope they push some wind energy. I live in Oklahoma, and there is too much flat land and waaay too much wind here not to harness it.

Yea that's a smart idea.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

We've had a female SOS before, we've had a black SOS. We've had a black, female SOS before.

Sotomayor, while qualified to be an Associate Justice, has not, too me and several others, reconcilied her previous statements about her race and experience with those during her confirmation hearings. She is an elitist.

What is fueling this wild behaviour is what we see. Our country is transforming right before our eyes. Banks being nationalized. Car manufactuers being nationalized. Attempts to nationalize healthcare. Attacks on our prosperity by by heaping new energy taxes under the guise of 'saving the planet'.

This is amazing, on the smaller level these people proved incompetent in running their own banks and their own car dealerships etc. While I certainly don't think they should be nationalized, the gov't didn't intervene at all during Bush's rule and they screwed everything up so bad that Obama literally had to go into emergency mode while we were headed into a major economical collapse. And i'm glad to see that you're one of the 2% of the people in this country who doesn't think saving the planet from global warming is important.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Recessions will occur. They have to occur. It's part of the business cycle.

I don't know where you've been for tha last few years, but this is not just a normal recession, this is one of the biggest recessions since the great depression and financial experts are saying we were this close to financial collapse. But since you're such an expert on the issue, why don't you tell all here on a.net what should have been done to help the economy.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:11 pm



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
She is an elitist.

Can someone please explain to me, what exactly is an elitist?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:26 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
but I think much of these "arguments" against anything liberal/democrat are because

So why were people so against it in 1993 then?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:48 pm



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):

Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

What startles me is the fact that none of his initiatives where secret when he was running for president. None of this should be a surprise to anyone. He got elected on these issues.

Why the outrage now?

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 3):
I have had MRI's the next day that is the way it supposed to be, but it wont be like that if this bill passes the way it is.

Do you have a crystal ball to predict the future? I mean people in France and Canada get hurt and sick, and guess what - they survive! There are plenty of healthy people in those countries.
Step into my office, baby
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 5):
Can someone please explain to me, what exactly is an elitist?

1. Read the New York Times, The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, etc.
2. Went to an Eastern University.
3. Can spell.
4. Believe in the Arts through individual contributions and/or government assistance.
5. Believe NPR is a good thing
6. Watch PBS
7. Know that there is a world outside of the US of A.
8. Don't understand why Sarah Palin is so popular?
9. They are patriotic, believe in America, and support our armed forces.
10. They are hard working people in all walks of life who value their income and hate being taxed as much as everyone else.
11. Watch Fox and Listen to Rush to get their laughs.

I'm sure there are many more.


In politics, the terms are often used to describe people as out of touch with the Average Joe. The implication is that the alleged elitist person or group thinks they are better than everyone else, and therefore put themselves before others. It could be seen as a synonym for snob. An elitist is not always seen as truly elite, but only privileged. This use is often employed in politics in societies where social equality is valued and the middle and lower classes have political power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism

[Edited 2009-08-12 09:58:00]
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9841
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:55 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 5):
Can someone please explain to me, what exactly is an elitist?

Somebody who thinks that some (most) people are simply too dumb or unenlightened to take charge of their own lives, so the benevolent hand of government must take care of them.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
seb146
Posts: 14056
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:58 pm



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress

That is the real reason. There are no right-wingers in control of anything. THAT is why the right is so pissed.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

Like data mining, wire tapping, seeing who is attending anti-war rallies, no-fly lists. Yeah. Because those were set up to give us greater liberies and those were set up by Obama.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Banks being nationalized. Car manufactuers being nationalized.

Given loans, which they are paying back with interest, and are getting out from under the thumb of big daddy government.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Attacks on our prosperity by by heaping new energy taxes under the guise of 'saving the planet'.

Or, not having to go through another OPEC embargo. Being self-reliant so that when the Chinese decide to jack up the prices of oil and sell to us we can say "No, thanks. We're good."

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Quality healthcare...wait in line.

Like all those lines we always hear about in the hell-holes of health care like Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, France, Canada, Italy, Germany, Spain, England. Right. Got it.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Do you like your Anthem, Aetna, UHC or any other...say goodbye, because once the insurance company tries to amend you coverage, the policy is null and void.

Then, that is up to the insurance company. What does that have to do with people who want single payer like Medicare yet currently have nothing? What does that have to do with people that do have Blue Cross or Aetna that change during the change period and follow all the rules?

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Obama and gang are talking out their butts.

Saddam has WMDs. Saddam has been harboring al-Qaida for years. Saddam is connected with Sept 11. We are wire tapping for your safety. We are setting up no-fly lists for your safety. People with names similar to criminals are not allowed to vote..... You mean talking out their butt like that?
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:59 pm

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

When they take away your constitutionally given liberties, I'll be right there to protest with you. To this point, no one has done any of that.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
All I have to say is: Code Pink, PETA, Earth First, etc. These groups routinely disrupt political meetings for their agenda.

And it's entirely disrespectful. It annoys the hell out of me on either side. As much as I dislike Bush and Republican agenda, if I attended a forum I would not act the way these people are. But I guess that's just me. Would you act that way?


UAL

[Edited 2009-08-12 10:03:45]
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:03 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Somebody who thinks that some (most) people are simply too dumb or unenlightened to take charge of their own lives, so the benevolent hand of government must take care of them.

Come on Dreadie, that is really unfair and inaccurate. As I said above it is an assumption nothing more.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:19 pm

I don't blame any of the people going to these town hall meetings for being mad as hell. The stimulus bill, for example, was an 1,100-page document unveiled at 11:00 pm the night before the floor vote. The same thing happened with the climate change bill. At 3 a.m. on the day the bill was to be voted on, the Democratic leadership released a 310-page amendment. The health care bill was right on track to be shoved through Congress in much the same way. No wonder people feel like little thought is being given to what would result in a massive change to what is around 15% of our economy.

Obama's priorities seem to be rushed legislation and little transparency. Yesterday's town hall was another example of screened, handpicked group of people asking scripted questions. Hardly a town hall, more like an infomercial.

I agree there are some weapons grade idiots on both sides, like the guy who brought a gun to the town hall meeting yesterday, but I won't be sending any "fishy" emails I receive to the White House anytime soon.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:25 pm



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 13):
Obama's priorities seem to be rushed legislation and little transparency.

I will agree things seem to be too rushed. If these issues weren't so huge, I understand moving swiftly. But I think the politicians and Obama are doing too many things at once. I think all of Obama's agendas are good ones, but I'd like to see them implemented less quickly, if only to give the public a time to adjust.

As to his transparency, I do believe he is much much more transparent than the last administration.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:38 pm

During the campaign, Obama pledged to post legislation online for five days before signing it. Since then he's said he doesn't have to do that for the bills like the stimulus bill because the pledge applied only to non-emergency legislation.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 14):
As to his transparency, I do believe he is much much more transparent than the last administration.

Did the last administration run on a platform of transparency? Obama promised during the campaign to have the most transparent government in history. How his "transparency" is as compared to Bush is irrelevant when the bar for his administration is the "most transparent government in history". Since then we've had the stimulus bill shoved down our throat and they won't even release the data on the "cash for clunkers" program for an independent determination of the program’s success.

Quoting Ual747 (Reply 14):
I think all of Obama's agendas are good ones,

I think SOME of his agendas are good ones. I'm ok with some form of health care reform, but not a public option.

Massive government spending for the stimulus bill, the bailout of Detroit and banks, subsidizing people's car purchases, among others are horrible ideas in my opinion.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
User avatar
Dreadnought
Posts: 9841
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:31 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:40 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):
Come on Dreadie, that is really unfair and inaccurate. As I said above it is an assumption nothing more.

What are you talking about? The question was asked what do we consider to be elitist, and there it is. Elitism is all about identifying a lot of different groups of people and providing for them because they are unable to do so themselves. Elitism is the combination of feeling superior to these poor unfortunates, while at the same time feeling noble about yourself for helping them (even if its with other people's money). It is the foundation of progressivism, ever since the dark days of Eugenics in the early 20th century.

And it is a mindset and policy which we conservatives have nothing but contempt for.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:05 pm



Quoting Ual747 (Reply 14):
As to his transparency, I do believe he is much much more transparent than the last administration.

Well for one thing, he has the information right in front of him and yet he is still outright lying to the people. He can't even begin to claim the information given him is faulty.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
flymia
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:39 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 7):
Do you have a crystal ball to predict the future? I mean people in France and Canada get hurt and sick, and guess what - they survive! There are plenty of healthy people in those countries.

Of course there are, but lets also look at those countries taxes and the size of those countries the US is much larger than either of those two countries we need a different system from them just like the President said himself. And there are wait times, I know people who have gone to the United States because they were told they had to wait 3 months for life saving surgery!
Imagine government health care. They would get the worse doctors, worse nurses, the person would not have much say in what test he and she wants done etc.. When I think of government health care I think of the DMV or Postal Office. I like telling my doctor what test I want, what doctor I want to see etc.. If this bill passes at some point everyone will be under government health care, taxes will sky rocket up, and health care just wont be the same.
(of course this is just my opinion based on my own research and experiences but the majority of America is starting to feel this way too)

When President Bush tried to rush bills through liberals where going crazy as to why he would do that. But if President Obama does it its okay.  Yeah sure
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
slider
Posts: 6812
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:54 pm



Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
then Financial Regulatory Reform (to combat and police Wallstreet to prevent another devastating recession).

How about Congressional Reform to hold idiots like barney Frank and Chris Dodd accountable for their almost criminal negligence in KNOWINGLY turning their back on Fannie and Freddie problems because they were/are on the take? How about that?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1):
1. We have a black president, 2. We have a woman secretary of state, 3. We have a Latina as a Supreme Court Judge. The racism and bigotry, albeit very underlying, is what is fueling all this wild behavior.

What a load of bullshit!! Let’s just stop the incendiary race-baiting now. Mods ought to spank you for this post candidly since it happens with a far less threshold otherwise.

My “wild behavior” as an AMERICAN CITIZEN and lover of liberty is because NOTHING this administration has done has been Constitutional, honest, or consistent with constructionist or conservative classically liberal values. I don’t give a rat’s ass if Obama or any of them are purple with green chartreuse polka dots. But his values, policies and the entire action since he assumed office has been one abortion of freedom after another.

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 13):
Obama's priorities seem to be rushed legislation and little transparency.

Another damn good point and something that the leftists can only answer by saying that there HAS to be a sense of urgency…we must act now or the sky is falling!! Whatever.
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:31 pm



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

"Majority" is the key word in your statement. The majority has chosen a president and congress that are left of where you happen to be. You seem to consider that an affront.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
She is an elitist.

So what?

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Quoting Propilot83 (Thread starter):
Obama is a great President,

Really, you can say that after 200 or so days? I think he's out of his element.

And many said the same thing about Bush. So where does that get us? Round and round we go....
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
max550
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:46 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:04 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
How about Congressional Reform to hold idiots like barney Frank and Chris Dodd accountable for their almost criminal negligence in KNOWINGLY turning their back on Fannie and Freddie problems because they were/are on the take? How about that?

The executive branch can't reform the legislative branch.
There is already a process for holding congresspeople accountable, it's called elections. The only way to solve the problem of congresspeople being on the take is to have public financing for elections, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
My %u201Cwild behavior%u201D as an AMERICAN CITIZEN and lover of liberty is because NOTHING this administration has done has been Constitutional, honest, or consistent with constructionist or conservative classically liberal values.

Care to provide some examples? I think I would have heard about it if they did something unconstitutional.
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:24 pm



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 20):
"Majority" is the key word in your statement. The majority has chosen a president and congress that are left of where you happen to be. You seem to consider that an affront.

Absolutely correct. The majority was sold a bill of goods. We get to corret that in 447 days.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Given loans, which they are paying back with interest, and are getting out from under the thumb of big daddy government.

And demanding salary caps and denying folks rightfully negotiated and earned bonuses.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Or, not having to go through another OPEC embargo. Being self-reliant so that when the Chinese decide to jack up the prices of oil and sell to us we can say "No, thanks. We're good."

And how is Cap & Trade going to do that? We don't have a new energy source in the wings that can take the place of oil. How about we develop one first? How is hamstringing our economy going to ensure our prosperity as a nation and 'save the planet'?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Then, that is up to the insurance company. What does that have to do with people who want single payer like Medicare yet currently have nothing? What does that have to do with people that do have Blue Cross or Aetna that change during the change period and follow all the rules?

It's rather simple. This legislation will make it next to impossible for private insurers to compete against the government.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 10):
Like all those lines we always hear about in the hell-holes of health care like Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, France, Canada, Italy, Germany, Spain, England. Right. Got it.

I'm sorry, do they have a population of over 300,000,000? No. Why do folks from these countries come to the US for healthcare? I have spent time in a healthcare access paradise. I stepped into a hospital in the middle of a national capital and was appalled at what I saw. As I continued to visit my mother, I became even more upset at the system. I spent more time getting stamps and endorsements than I did with my mom. My dad kept trying to find someone to pay so that they would take care of my mom. No, thank you.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
And i'm glad to see that you're one of the 2% of the people in this country who doesn't think saving the planet from global warming is important.

I thought the current term was 'rapid climate change', since global warming doesn't seem to be panning out.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
This is amazing, on the smaller level these people proved incompetent in running their own banks and their own car dealerships etc. While I certainly don't think they should be nationalized, the gov't didn't intervene at all during Bush's rule and they screwed everything up so bad that Obama literally had to go into emergency mode while we were headed into a major economical collapse.

Then their banks should have closed and folded and the dealerships/manufacturers should have closed up. Would it have hurt? Absolutely, but those that remained would be leaner and stronger. That's the free market and competition. Look it up sometime. Emergency mode? What's that? Run up a deficit that is going to cripple the economy? Build roads that no one can use?
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
slider
Posts: 6812
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:26 pm



Quoting Max550 (Reply 21):
Care to provide some examples? I think I would have heard about it if they did something unconstitutional.

How about you name soemthing he's done and I'll rebut. It's easy.
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 22):


Quoting Cws818 (Reply 20):
"Majority" is the key word in your statement. The majority has chosen a president and congress that are left of where you happen to be. You seem to consider that an affront.

Absolutely correct. The majority was sold a bill of goods. We get to corret that in 447 days.

No, the majority made a choice. Nobody was hoodwinked.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
max550
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:46 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:08 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 23):
How about you name soemthing he's done and I'll rebut. It's easy.

Rebut what, the Constitutionality of it or the fact that he did it?
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:17 pm

Let me clarify my "race" post.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
What a load of bullshit!! Let’s just stop the incendiary race-baiting now. Mods ought to spank you for this post candidly since it happens with a far less threshold otherwise.

I'm not saying you, but I live in a conservative state, and I see and hear what many people are saying about all of them. It's pathetic. And I personally, I believe that their underlying racism/sexism is what is fueling their anger against anything. That's my opinion based on what I've observed in my environment.

And let me clarify, I do not think that all, or even many republicans are racist, just as I don't think all democrats are godless. On both sides of the party, you get a lot of these people who are yelling, booing, etc., from the base. The conservative and liberal bases. The conservative base tends to be more inclined to racism and sexism, just like the democratic base may be more inclined to want to legalize narcotics, or something very "liberal." Unfortunately for the Republicans, much of the population that could be considered racist resides in that political party, and it fuels them that the president is a black democrat.

We all have prejudice towards something or someone or some belief or some ideal in one way or another. I'm just making an observation I've seen in that party over much of my adult life in Oklahoma in regards to race/sex relations and politics.

I believe you would be able to stop and have a considerate debate with politicians, and I believe everyone else here would. But some of the Republican base is incapable for the same reasons that some of the Democrat base are incapable.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
But his values, policies and the entire action since he assumed office has been one abortion of freedom after another.

You do realize how many rights to privacy the former president took away from you.

Again, the first time some freedom is taken away from you, please tell me. Because I know of none that have been denied to you.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:20 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
Another damn good point and something that the leftists can only answer by saying that there HAS to be a sense of urgency…we must act now or the sky is falling!! Whatever.

Really? War in Iraq much?

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:41 pm



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 24):
No, the majority made a choice. Nobody was hoodwinked.

That is correct, the majority did make a choice. But, I wouldn't go so far as saying that nobody was hoodwinked. I've given a couple examples of campaign pledges that he has reneged on, there are more. Granted politicians are notorious for reneging on campaign promises, however he was elected by moderates/independents who may well reconsider their vote for him next time.

Today, an average of 36% of Americans consider themselves Democratic, 28% Republican, and 37% independent.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/co...gle-largest-ideological-group.aspx

I doubt that many of the independents that voted for the President last year could have foreseen that the U.S. deficit would have grown by $1.55 Trillion dollars between 2008 and 2009 that's more than 4 times than the deficit in '08.

For a President that ran on a platform of transparency why does he lie to us and say that health insurance reform won't add to our deficit over the coming decades right after the Congressional Budget Office projected $239 billion of additional deficit spending over the next 10 years because of it?
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:55 pm



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 26):
The conservative base tends to be more inclined to racism and sexism, just like the democratic base may be more inclined to want to legalize narcotics, or something very "liberal." Unfortunately for the Republicans, much of the population that could be considered racist resides in that political party, and it fuels them that the president is a black democrat.

Those are some pretty broad, naive statements. The truth is in that Gallup poll I linked to above. Only 9% of the population considers themselves very conservative and only 4% considers themselves very liberal. It's a load of BS to characterize the conservative base as "more inclined" to racism and sexism. As if "more inclined" is a genetic characteristic. A typical liberal scare tactic to scream racism whenever there is opposition to Obama's policy initiatives.

After eight years of liberal protesters hanging Bush in effigy, calling him a Nazi, disrupting conservative speeches on campuses by taking over stages or throwing pies, and creating websites and movies that wished for Bush's death you're going to tell me that conservatives are racists and fueled by hate?

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 26):
You do realize how many rights to privacy the former president took away from you.

So I can count on you leading the voice of opposition to the citizen spying/information gathering initiative at flag@whitehouse.gov?
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
seb146
Posts: 14056
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:10 pm



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 22):
And demanding salary caps and denying folks rightfully negotiated and earned bonuses.

To make sure they get their money back with interest. Wouldn't you? Isn't that good business?

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 22):
This legislation will make it next to impossible for private insurers to compete against the government.

They will find a way, if they want to keep in the game. Isn't that how business works?

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 22):
I have spent time in a healthcare access paradise. I stepped into a hospital in the middle of a national capital and was appalled at what I saw. As I continued to visit my mother, I became even more upset at the system. I spent more time getting stamps and endorsements than I did with my mom. My dad kept trying to find someone to pay so that they would take care of my mom.

I do not know the whole story, so I have to ask: why was your mom in a foreign hospital? Does she live there or is she an American visiting another country (which one?) and became ill. I don't know the whole story is why I ask.

I had to deal with the Canadian health care system. Not to the degree you did. My issue was not bad, horrible or even require me to visit hospital. I was stung by a bee. My father was deathly allergic and I felt very poorly after I was stung. I went to a community center, they called a nurse on the phone and I recieved very good information. It was after all of this that I was asked for my health ID. They were more interested in helping another human being before getting paid. I thought that was great.

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 29):
So I can count on you leading the voice of opposition to the citizen spying/information gathering initiative

But, why is that so important now, but when the spying program came to light under Bush, the voice of the right was "It is for our security! It is for our safety! You lefties hate America! You lefties are terrorists for being against this security measure!" Interesting.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
max550
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:46 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:16 pm



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 28):
That is correct, the majority did make a choice. But, I wouldn't go so far as saying that nobody was hoodwinked. I've given a couple examples of campaign pledges that he has reneged on, there are more. Granted politicians are notorious for reneging on campaign promises, however he was elected by moderates/independents who may well reconsider their vote for him next time.

If people were hoodwinked that's their own fault. He has reneged on some campaign pledges, but so does every politician. I'm not saying it's right to do something other than what you pledge to do, but that's the way politics works here. If you feel tricked by it then you're living in a fantasy world.
I don't think anyone should be too surprised by his overall policies so far though, they're pretty much what was expected. If the moderates and independents aren't happy with him I hope they do reconsider their vote for him next time. That's how the system works.

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 28):
I doubt that many of the independents that voted for the President last year could have foreseen that the U.S. deficit would have grown by $1.55 Trillion dollars between 2008 and 2009 that's more than 4 times than the deficit in '08.

It was already projected to be $1.2 trillion as of January of this year, Obama has added to it, but not nearly as much as you'd like to believe.

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 28):
For a President that ran on a platform of transparency why does he lie to us and say that health insurance reform won't add to our deficit over the coming decades right after the Congressional Budget Office projected $239 billion of additional deficit spending over the next 10 years because of it?

Has that bill been passed yet? I believe he said he won't sign a bill that adds to the deficit. Until he breaks that pledge I don't think he's lying to anyone.
 
flymia
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:37 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
They will find a way, if they want to keep in the game. Isn't that how business works?

It if pretty hard to compete against an option that "seems" free. Also it is pretty hard to compete against the most powerful and richest organization in the world the American Government. That is like me trying to fly MIA-DFW in a Cessna 208 trying to compete with AA. Who do you think will win? And when the government wins I have to switch to this plan, have the government make my medical decisions, does not sound like a good idea too me.

If the moderates had a crystal ball and saw the country today I guarantee President Obama would have lost in a landslide. Unfortunately it was not possible. Hopefully people will change their mind in 2010. As for 2012 there is still too much time obviously to talk about that.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
max550
Posts: 714
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:46 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:54 pm



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 32):
It if pretty hard to compete against an option that "seems" free. Also it is pretty hard to compete against the most powerful and richest organization in the world the American Government.

My understanding is that if you can't afford insurance you would receive credits and/or subsidies to buy insurance. It would be up to you to choose whether you want the public option or a private option. I wanted to ask Specter about that yesterday but never got inside. If I'm wrong please correct me on that.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 32):
That is like me trying to fly MIA-DFW in a Cessna 208 trying to compete with AA. Who do you think will win?

I don't know, if AA is offering crappy service, canceled flights and a much higher fatality rate I think you'd be able to compete pretty well.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:26 pm



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 32):
have the government make my medical decisions, does not sound like a good idea too me.

As opposed to have a CEO make ur health decisions? Beacuse that is what is happening now you know? A level 1 accountant decides what is profitable for you to have done.

Why not let the govermnet compete? If their service sux, the peolple would flock back to the private insurance companies even if it is at a premium
Step into my office, baby
 
seb146
Posts: 14056
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:39 pm



Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 32):
If the moderates had a crystal ball and saw the country today I guarantee President Obama would have lost in a landslide.

Like what? Letting car companies go bankrupt leaving tens of thousands without work? Home owners being upside-down in their mortgages without work? More soldiers in Iraq? What is the worst thing that has happened? Ballooning deficit? Who brought that on? Obama? He borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars in just a few months?

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 32):
it is pretty hard to compete against the most powerful and richest organization in the world the American Government.

If health care industry wants to stay afloat, they will find a way to do it. Ford is doing it. Airlines did after deregulation. Competition is how businesses stay, right? Competition.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:45 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
To make sure they get their money back with interest. Wouldn't you? Isn't that good business?

No, it's not good business. It's government interference in the marketplace. I don't care how much lipstick you put on it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
They will find a way, if they want to keep in the game. Isn't that how business works?

No, business works when the government stays out of it. Government's role should be to ensure fairness, not to compete against the private sector.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
I do not know the whole story, so I have to ask: why was your mom in a foreign hospital? Does she live there or is she an American visiting another country (which one?) and became ill. I don't know the whole story is why I ask.

My mom was a Greek citizen living in Greece. She died of her illness. In all fairness, she would have probably died in an American hospital, but I found the conditions distastful. In the ambulance ride (and I use that term loosely) I administered the oxygen, because the attendent didn't know how. I asked why we were going into downtown Athens, he replied that since he didn't know her 'status', that's where we were going. I, nor my father, know what 'status' he referred to.

The most telling thing, in my opinion, is that whenever my dad (82 years young) visits the US, his first action is to visit a doctor for a physical. When asked why, he says he doesn't trust the doctors back home.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
But, why is that so important now, but when the spying program came to light under Bush, the voice of the right was "It is for our security! It is for our safety! You lefties hate America! You lefties are terrorists for being against this security measure!" Interesting.

That program was designed to find terrorists abroad and stop attacks on citizens of the US (arguably, the first duty of the US president and government) and the people of other nations. The Obama 'fishy' program is designed to identify political dissent in the guise of eliminating dis-information.


Quoting Max550 (Reply 31):
It was already projected to be $1.2 trillion as of January of this year, Obama has added to it, but not nearly as much as you'd like to believe.

No, I believe, and have seen charts, that we're almost exponential in deficit growth. If this is even remotely accurate, we're spending ourselves into oblivion or servitude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5yxFtTwDcc

Quoting Max550 (Reply 31):
Has that bill been passed yet? I believe he said he won't sign a bill that adds to the deficit. Until he breaks that pledge I don't think he's lying to anyone.

I'm hoping it won't reach his desk, but I wouldn't hold my breath about him not signing it.

[Edited 2009-08-12 16:58:56]
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:57 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 35):
If health care industry wants to stay afloat, they will find a way to do it. Ford is doing it. Airlines did after deregulation. Competition is how businesses stay, right? Competition.

The health care industry is not the concern, the concern is the insurance industry. The airlines are not competing against the government. Ford continues to exist because they were a little quicker than the others. Cash for clunkers probably helps. Also, I just bought a Ford because it didn't succumb to the government take-over.

When the government gets into health insurance, it will compete directly with the other insurers. They will not be able to dip into the government kitty to subsidize themselves, will they? They can't raise taxes to cover short-falls, can they?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 35):
Like what? Letting car companies go bankrupt leaving tens of thousands without work? Home owners being upside-down in their mortgages without work? More soldiers in Iraq? What is the worst thing that has happened? Ballooning deficit? Who brought that on? Obama? He borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars in just a few months?

Yes, it's harsh, but yes...that's competition in the market place. If Chrysler had to close-up, then so be it. Tens of thousands have already lost their jobs, my brother amongst them. The mortgage problem is a problem created by too much government, not too little. You really need to understand that. The banks and mortgage companies also got greedy and took risks they shouldn't have, all with the government's tacit approval. Those lenders made bad business decisions and should have suffered for them. The people that bought above their means...oh well.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 8716
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:51 am

" Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are free at last" From George W. Bush and his ruinious policies of greed that is.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19820
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:59 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):

Oh, horse-shit. We're pissed because we have a leftist president and a leftist majority congress who are hell-bent on taking away our liberties.

NO THEY ARE NOT.

And you had better grow the heck up and realize that you have to work with these people. Hating them will gain you nothing. So start focusing on the issue of healthcare and less on how much you hate Barak Obama because played for a team you don't like.

Take away our liberties? Like the Patriot act? Like wiretapping? Like using "extraordinary rendition" on U.S. Citizens on U.S. soil? I haven't seen any such moves done by the current administration.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:33 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39):
Take away our liberties? Like the Patriot act? Like wiretapping? Like using "extraordinary rendition" on U.S. Citizens on U.S. soil? I haven't seen any such moves done by the current administration.

Let's see, Patriot Act? Still in force, the Administration has made no move to have it rescinded or weakened. As a Senator he voted to reauthorize it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic...ns_of_Barack_Obama#USA_PATRIOT_Act

Domestec wire tapping program? Still in force and actually expanded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy


As matter of fact, as a Senator he voted to expand it,

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/16...for-Obama-on-Domestic-Spying-Views

Extraordinary renditions? Still going on.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/constitution/1625

And no, they don't have to work with us. If they are so sure that what they have planned is so good for the country, why bother with the GOP. Pass the plan. If its so great they will be able to insure that they are in power for generations.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:44 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 39):
NO THEY ARE NOT.

Doc, I consider my freedom to choose a health care plan liberty.

To drive the car I want...liberty.

To eat what I want...liberty.

To say what I want, without concern that my neighbors may report me as 'fishy'...liberty.

To bank where I want...liberty.

To carry a gun....liberty. To not carry a gun...liberty.

To be allowed to send my child to any school I want...liberty.

The way liberals take away our liberties is insidious. They do it under the guise of entitlements and subsidies. They aren't teaching people to fish...they want to give them shirmp.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:08 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 35):
Like what? Letting car companies go bankrupt leaving tens of thousands without work? Home owners being upside-down in their mortgages without work? More soldiers in Iraq? What is the worst thing that has happened? Ballooning deficit? Who brought that on? Obama? He borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars in just a few months?

So, Detroit runs a failing business model for what the last couple decades and it's now our responsibility to save them? It wasn't that long ago they were building as many SUV's as they could that got 12 mpg when Toyota was investing money into more fuel efficient cars. Then the government steps in when GM's bondholders were holding 27 billion dollars in debt. In exchange they got just 10% of stock. In essence at the time they were compensated with around 225 shares of GM stock for every $1,000 they were owed. At the time that amount of stock was worth around $300-325. Why invest if your money and rights as an investor can be arbitrarily stripped from you, as they were in GM's case? Not to mention that then the government fired the CEO of GM. What roll does government have firing a company's CEO?

Homeowners upside down on their mortgages? Why should we as a country save someone from a bad personal finance decision to purchase a house with no money down and an ARM? I pay my mortgage, I didn't over-extend my personal finances. There were people buying houses before the bubble burst that couldn't make 2 mortgage payments. It isn't the government's roll to save individuals or institutions from bad financial decisions.

Quoting Max550 (Reply 31):
If you feel tricked by it then you're living in a fantasy world.

I don't personally feel tricked. I don't have nearly the anger for Obama that the left had for Bush, but I realized early on he talked alot but really never said anything. I'm giving you examples not just making unsubstantiated statements. These are the reasons people are showing up mad as hell at these town hall meetings.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:26 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
What is fueling this wild behaviour is what we see. Our country is transforming right before our eyes. Banks being nationalized. Car manufactuers being nationalized. Attempts to nationalize healthcare. Attacks on our prosperity by by heaping new energy taxes under the guise of 'saving the planet'.

Let banks fail and the government pays out your tax dollars via the FDIC to cover any losses. That's first. Then, like the auto companies, it's time to spend your tax dollars on unemployment (followed by welfare), food stamps, Medicaid, etc.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
Do you like your Anthem, Aetna, UHC or any other...say goodbye

After paying them the premiums I paid and having them deny paying for the treatments they denied I could give a rat's ass if some say goodbye.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
They are trying to ram his thing down our throats, but we're starting to choke.

Instead of having unlimited monthly premium increases shoved up another orifice? They doubled under the first 4 years of Bush/Cheney - a wonderful $6,000+ annual "tax to keep the conservatives happy" increase in my mind.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 2):
There are criminals out there and they need to be dealt with, but overhauling the financial system is not the way to get them.

You prefer to keep the loose environment that they have enjoyed to date?

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 3):
I would much rather pay a bit more and get good healthcare, no waits, no lines, no weeks waiting list for an MRI or to see a hand specialist.

The question is how much more will you pay? If health insurance continues to increase 15% to 20% at what point will employers say "stuff it", either dropping insurance benefits or having you may most, if not all, of it? I'm covered, but younger people are really getting the shaft under the existing rip off.

I believe that the conservatives need to present a limit in increases in health insurance costs that they will consider beyond the pale. Where even THEY would start looking for a public plan that people can afford.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 3):
I saw a specialist in two days I ask for blood work and got it. I have had MRI's the next day that is the way it supposed to be, but it wont be like that if this bill passes the way it is.

Well, the VA has me getting full fasting blood tests 3 times a year, including PSA and A1c tests because they are indicated. I've had 2 CT Scans because they were indicated.

Had a heart cath under Medicare (because it's closer) and also a gallbladder removed - because they were indicated.

For the gallbladder I went to a general surgeon because he treated my wife and it was obvious I would end up there. No problems on "government care" there. I was in his office within 2 hours of calling and had an ultrasound within 15 minutes of him walking in the room. (He could actually see the stone across the room).

Oh, and NO ONE had to call 1-800-Mommy-May-I for permission for any of the tests or treatments! What a wonderful change!

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 3):
Hopefully the year all the moderates wake up,

Maybe they did last November.

Quoting DXing (Reply 6):
So why were people so against it in 1993 then?

People actually believed the health insurance propaganda then. Does anyone know the increases in premiums (and annual dollar increases in health insurance company profits) since then?

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
But his values, policies and the entire action since he assumed office has been one abortion of freedom after another.

No, he hasn't been a conservative like his predecessors. That is a change the voters clearly indicated we wanted.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 22):
Then their banks should have closed and folded and the dealerships/manufacturers should have closed up.

My preference is to use tax dollars at a federal to minimize job losses.

Some people prefer to see companies fail and then have tax dollars pay out all of the benefits related to that, as well as reduce tax revenues because of the losses.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 22):
That's the free market and competition.



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 34):
As opposed to have a CEO make ur health decisions? Beacuse that is what is happening now you know? A level 1 accountant decides what is profitable for you to have done.

Or is it a high school graduate sitting at a computer monitor and getting a little spiff (a few bucks) each time they deny payment.

I call it the "1-800-Mommy-May-I approach to medical care.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 36):
I administered the oxygen, because the attendent didn't know how.

Look at what attendants are paid and check on the turnover rates. That might help you understand.

Now try to define what the job should be and what the training should really be. Then work out the compensation package needed to attract and retain the quality of people you want to be there when YOU need an ambulance.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 37):
When the government gets into health insurance, it will compete directly with the other insurers.

Look at private coverage related to Medicare - I'm talking gap coverage.

Private insurance and government working together and the insurance companies are making very good profits, thank you, or they wouldn't be playing with the government.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 37):
The mortgage problem is a problem created by too much government, not too little.

The driving factor behind the mortgage crisis were the greedy in the financial sector who made a lot of money churning houses. "Home Owners" didn't even really need a job to qualify as it was the churn that generated the profits. You only had to be alive enough to sign the papers - and I wouldn't be surprised if a few dead people didn't sign documents either.
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:35 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 36):
No, business works when the government stays out of it.

Does Enron ring a bell?

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 41):
To be allowed to send my child to any school I want...liberty.

Has any "liberal" tried to make you switch your child's school, other than if you had moved into another district? I doubt it, and I bet none have even suggested doing so.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:44 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 43):
The driving factor behind the mortgage crisis were the greedy in the financial sector who made a lot of money churning houses. "Home Owners" didn't even really need a job to qualify as it was the churn that generated the profits. You only had to be alive enough to sign the papers - and I wouldn't be surprised if a few dead people didn't sign documents either.

It's easy to blame the big, bad company but remember someone had to actually sign the papers. If you didn't have a job and you qualified for a home loan, would you sign the papers? Take personal responsibility for your actions.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 43):
Instead of having unlimited monthly premium increases shoved up another orifice? They doubled under the first 4 years of Bush/Cheney - a wonderful $6,000+ annual "tax to keep the conservatives happy" increase in my mind.

Why don't we start by limiting tort liability for medical malpractice. Premiums rise during the Bush administration because insurance companies faced increased costs to pay claims (from growth in malpractice awards). Don't believe me? Here's the Congressional Budget Office report from 2004 explaining why premiums were increasing and tort reform was/is needed
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=4968&type=0
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:48 am



Quoting Cws818 (Reply 44):
Does Enron ring a bell?

Enron, and Worldcom make (made) up what total percentage of all the nations business?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
cws818
Posts: 824
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:42 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:06 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 46):


Quoting Cws818 (Reply 44):
Does Enron ring a bell?

Enron, and Worldcom make (made) up what total percentage of all the nations business?

Zero because they no longer exist.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:15 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Somebody who thinks that some (most) people are simply too dumb or unenlightened to take charge of their own lives, so the benevolent hand of government must take care of them.

I must disagree with your viewpoint.

I see the healthcare debate and the outrageous townhall outbursts as another typical scare campaign from the right - virtually 21st century McCarthyism. The Right and their healthcare industry lobbyist owners would do or say anything to block real healthcare change in this country.

They are sending out lists of questions for their stooges to read in these town meetings, and some of the stooges aren't even intelligent enough to memorize these properly and have to read them verbatim from a script. Or the people organizing these town hall attacks have to yell out and remind them what they're supposed to be saying "spontaneously". They even have local or State level Republican organizers/staffers in the audience telling these "sheepeople" when to shout and jeer. This is NOT democracy in action - it is high-powered and well-paid INTIMIDATION in action - and frankly, it makes me sick to my stomach. There is a rampant rumor that the insurance companies Rent-A-Mob whores -- or should I say "town-hall protesters"--are rumored to get $90.00 a day. Prostitutes  vomit 

There's now a mass interest in whether abortions will be paid for by the proposed healthcare reform - it's not according to the current language of the bill. But the right-wing birthers - I mean pro-lifers - are protesting the reform plans because they're saying it WILL pay for taxpayer funded abortion! Can we say false wedge issue????

Obama must not give in to this revived McCarthyism, or he will lose the chance to pass any major government reforms AT ALL. God knows this country needs to reforms after what the robber-barons on Wall Street have done to this nation's - and the rest of the world's - economy.

[Edited 2009-08-12 21:24:51]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Obama's Priorities

Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:48 am

After the last post I give up. Filter the clutter on both sides. I don't believe a public option will fund abortions, death committees or whatever. I'm more concerned that we aren't considering tort reform well before we let the government take over health care. I've traveled abroad many times, there's a reason why the utopia you think free health care doesn't work.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 48):
I see the healthcare debate and the outrageous townhall outbursts as another typical scare campaign from the right - virtually 21st century McCarthyism.

I live in Seattle and have seen the WTO riots. As I've said before

Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 29):
After eight years of liberal protesters hanging Bush in effigy, calling him a Nazi, disrupting conservative speeches on campuses by taking over stages or throwing pies, and creating websites and movies that wished for Bush's death you're going to tell me that conservatives are racists and fueled by hate?

The left can't really compare the actions of conservatives in the town hall meetings to how they acted during the 8 years GWB was in office. Rent-A-Mob whores? You can't be serious.
The beatings will continue until morale improves

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests