SATexan
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Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:16 pm

Still fresh from the last incident, I got this link from a co-worker today:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...99/couple-deported-city-paris.html

How can the French authorities determine the eligibility to enter Finland?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:24 pm



Quoting SATexan (Thread starter):
How can the French authorities determine the eligibility to enter Finland?

As far as borders go, there is the Schengen agreement. It allows travel between certain members of the EU. The couple was to enter the area in France and effectively take a domestic flight to Finland as there would be no immigration there.
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JRadier
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:25 pm

Quoting SATexan (Thread starter):
How can the French authorities determine the eligibility to enter Finland?

They did not, they determined the eligibility to enter the EU (or more specifically the Schengen countries), which they have to do. France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration, as CDG-HEL does not encounter immigration due to the Schengen agreement.

[Edited 2009-08-27 14:27:49]
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catiii
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:30 pm

What are the Cleveland Indians doing in Paris?  Smile

In all seriousness, to amplify on what was said above, The Schengen rules remove all internal border controls but put in place effective controls at the external borders of the EU and introduce a common visa policy. The full Schengen members are Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden (but not Ireland and the United Kingdom) plus Iceland, Norway and Switzerland (which are not EU members).
 
SATexan
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:47 pm



Quoting CatIII (Reply 3):
What are the Cleveland Indians doing in Paris?

Hahaha..they are playing the Dodgers in the World Series  Wink

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 1):
The couple was to enter the area in France and effectively take a domestic flight to Finland



Quoting JRadier (Reply 2):
France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration, as CDG-HEL does not encounter immigration due to the Schengen agreement.

Thanks for the info guys.
 
DTWLAX
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:12 am



Quoting JRadier (Reply 2):
They did not, they determined the eligibility to enter the EU (or more specifically the Schengen countries), which they have to do. France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration, as CDG-HEL does not encounter immigration due to the Schengen agreement.



Quoting CatIII (Reply 3):
In all seriousness, to amplify on what was said above, The Schengen rules remove all internal border controls but put in place effective controls at the external borders of the EU and introduce a common visa policy.

The schengen visa permits travel to any of the Schengen countries.
If the couple were traveling to Finland, they would have had the Schengen visa. They would not be traveling without the visa.

So the question to be answered is why were they deported if they had the visa?
Is it due to the lack of financial support documents?
 
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LTU932
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:33 am



Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 6):
So the question to be answered is why were they deported if they had the visa?
Is it due to the lack of financial support documents?

This just reminds me of an incident a coworker told me about. There was this girl who flew with IB to MAD, in order to go to Switzerland to visit relatives. When she went through immigration, they put her in a cell and then deported her back to SJO, without any reason as to why they kicked her out. She's Costa Rican, and Costa Ricans do not even need a Schengen visa, yet according to my coworker, they simply randomly selected her for immigration action. I recommended him to tell her to go complain with the Spanish Embassy, but apparently it wouldn't do any good, as nothing may come out of it.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:34 am

I'm glad this matter has been taken up to the MoEA.
It would be tough for Elder persons visiting a foreign land to face such a problem.If the report is true.This is an issue which should be highlighted.
regds
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brahmin
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:38 am

India should stop Air France from operating in India so that passengers do not have to transit at CDG and get harassed there.
 
SATexan
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:39 am



Quoting JRadier (Reply 2):
France is the port of entry to this area and thus they handle the immigration

Now, is this a cursory check made at the boarding area or a full fledged immigration clearence done for all passengers proceeding to the Schengen countries?

How will a non EU passenger know that he/she is required to go through Immigration at CDG? Normally, connecting passengers will simply proceed to the gate where they will board their next flight. So is an announcement made as the flight approaches CDG?
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:55 am

Yes, I am sure this is a well-researched an well-balanced article and not just a one-sided retelling of a story as "reported" by enraged passengers. The introduction as a "helpless elderly couple" - the wife is all of 45 years old - certainly helps to set a fair and balanced tone for the article.

"The minute they landed at the airport, security officials demanded the invitation letter sent to the parents by their son,"

I am pretty sure this happened just as they were trying to clear immigration, and not "the minute they landed at the airport", unless a special forces commando stormed the plane. And security officials "demanding the invitation letter" is nothing but them doing their job by asking for supporting documentation. Just the fact that they are this dramatic about everyday procedures shows the mindset that this "report" is written in.

"The couple jotted down the mobile number and e-mail address of their son on a paper and handed it. However, the officials rudely tore them up and threw it away."

Yes, I am sure this is exactly how it happened.

The couple were asked to sign something written in French

they kept ordering us to shut up when we attempted to say something

If they had any doubts of us bearing the H1N1 virus they should have conducted tests.
 Confused

Long story short, they lacked proper documentation (ever heard of a new thing called making a copy?) and cash reserves, and they were sent back home. Bad luck for the couple, but stuff like that happens 1000s of times everyday at airports around the world. Be prepared is all I can say. But how about let's get all hysterical and make a big anti-French racism thing out of it?
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SATexan
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:22 am



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 12):
Bad luck for the couple, but stuff like that happens 1000s of times everyday at airports around the world. Be prepared is all I can say.

You mean thousands of passengers across the world with VALID visas get tossed into jails and deported the next day? I dont think so.

While the news report may not be 100% accurate there seems to be a pattern of dubious behavior by the French immigration authorities at CDG
 
goldorak
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:35 am



Quoting Brahmin (Reply 10):
India should stop Air France from operating in India so that passengers do not have to transit at CDG and get harassed there.

And could you tell me what is the relationship between AF and CDG police ? If you take a non-stop flight India-CDG on any airlines other than AF, you won't have to deal with immigration at CDG ?
For this particular story, nobody knows what happened and the way the story is related is just sensationalism and poor journalism.
 
alm1
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:44 am

And a Shengen visa does not automaticaly mean that you can travel everywhere in Shengen area freely. In Lithuania we occasionaly deport people (nationals of countries like Kazahstan or Georgia) for trying to board flights to Western Europe when they have stated on their visa application that their final travel destinantion is Lithuania (such visas are easier to get).
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:49 am



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
Long story short, they lacked proper documentation (ever heard of a new thing called making a copy?)

Oh and you know this for sure, I suppose  Yeah sure

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
and cash reserves,

This is something that would have already been established when they were given their Swedish visas. Unless there was a red flag raised by the Finnish authorities, it is extremely unusual to have to document this when passing through immigration.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
Bad luck for the couple, but stuff like that happens 1000s of times everyday at airports around the world. Be prepared is all I can say.

I would *LOVE* for the shoe to be on the other foot  Smile



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
But how about let's get all hysterical and make a big anti-French racism thing out of it?

Dont imagine nonsense that's not happening. Nobody's accusing anybody of racism - just a case of lack of consideration for a couple that based on all the information at hand should have been allowed to proceed to HEL.
 
SATexan
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:49 am



Quoting Alm1 (Reply 13):
And a Shengen visa does not automaticaly mean that you can travel everywhere in Shengen area freely.

Agreed. But the couple in question were not travelling 'freely' wherever they wanted.
 
brahmin
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:31 am



Quoting Goldorak (Reply 12):
And could you tell me what is the relationship between AF and CDG police ? If you take a non-stop flight India-CDG on any airlines other than AF, you won't have to deal with immigration at CDG ?
For this particular story, nobody knows what happened and the way the story is related is just sensationalism and poor journalism.

The relationship is that AF flies you to CDG. LH flies you yo Germany and BA flies you to LHR, The problem is CDG.
There are just a few airlines that fly you directly from India to CDG.

It may be sensationalism to you, but, it is a real life story tragedy to the Indians affected.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:36 am

Now we don't have any idea of what really happened here and why.
But what we do know is that immigration for this couple should take place at CDG according to Schengen legislation.

Quoting SATexan (Reply 9):
How will a non EU passenger know that he/she is required to go through Immigration at CDG? Normally, connecting passengers will simply proceed to the gate where they will board their next flight. So is an announcement made as the flight approaches CDG?

Normally in the EU you clear immigration at first port of call into Schengen.
Thats the rules and most countries have similar rules.
People never just walk on to a connecting flight when going from international to domestic in other countries either so I doubt this can be an issue for travellers.

Why these people were stopped is anyones guess.
But in general its quite unlikely they were stopped for no reason at all, immigration doesn't work in that way. They need proof and a decision to send someone with a visa back isnt taken out of thin air. Immigration must base such a decision on facts and document them.
I assume the couple had valid visas since they say that had presented information to the EU embassy for the Visa.

But even if you get a visa you cant just travel, you need to fulfil certain requirements. This goes for most countries and for example New Zealand and Australia have similar rules. The enforcement might vary but I have been asked to provide proof of insurance in Auckland for instance.

It feekls more likely that they
A. Didn't have the stipulated funds with them.
B. Had the wrong visa.
C. Didn't have insurance according to specification.
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brightcedars
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:13 am

One issue here might be that the French authorities may have suspected that they were not going to board the flight to Finland and rather vanish into the French wilderness. Or it's something entirely different, with sound motivation or sadly without. Still the French authorities are actually letting people enter France and thus the Schengen area.

For the genuine occasional traveler, I would advise to take a more direct route to your EU destination, especially when you have a Schengen visa provided by a tier country, when you do not have a visa history (track record) of entering and exiting the area, and to get single ticket from origin to destination rather than separate ones.

It is known that some countries have a more laid back approach to visa issuance than others (if it doesn't work at that embassy, then apply at that other embassy...). It could very well be that these people did apply for a visa at the French embassy, were denied, then applied at the Finish embassy and got it, buying a 2nd ticket from France to Finland for the show.

My history of supporting visa requests for many in-laws tells me that if you do things the proper way, after a few years your guests will be rewarded with a multiple entry whole year visa. It just takes building up the trust.
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Kaiarahi
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:36 am



Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
You mean thousands of passengers across the world with VALID visas get tossed into jails and deported the next day? I dont think so.

Yep. Happens 100s of times a day in the US. A visa is effectively a "pre-clearance", but does not guarantee entry. From the U.S. Dept of State website: "While having a visa does not guarantee entry to the U.S, it does indicate a consular officer at a U.S Embassy or Consulate abroad has determined you are eligible to seek entry". People with valid visas can be refused entry because they have insufficient funds to support themselves, the CBP officer believes they may try to remain in the US, and a myriad of other reasons.

For example, my adopted daughter is a Tibetan refugee. She has UN and Canadian refugee identification documents (pending citizenship and a Canadian passport), a Canadian Permanent Resident card, an Ontario driver's licence and health insurance card, and a US visa valid until 2012. If she travels with me (Canadian citizen), she is usually allowed to enter the US (sometimes after questioning to establish that she is my adopted daughter, even though she's no longer a minor). When she has tried to enter the US on her own (e.g. to visit friends in NYC), she's always been refused entry, despite a valid visa.

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 14):
Unless there was a red flag raised by the Finnish authorities, it is extremely unusual to have to document this when passing through immigration.

It actually happens all the time. Immigration officers in many countries (not just France / Schengen) will check return tickets, means of support, insurance, reason for visiting, whether the visitor actually has significant links to the return destination, etc.
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cricket
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:57 am

Honestly, big deal. People get deported all the time if they don't have enough money and/or no international credit cards. It did not help that these people were first time flyers and may not have been conversant enough in English to understand the Immigration officer. It is sad, but there are more than enough examples of Indian people being deported.
That said, given the volume of India traffic through/into Europe European airports should have at least a few employees who are conversant enough in Indian languages (the UK does, as do several German airports) at least Hindi, Bangla, Urdu and Tamil the four largest South Asian languages!
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RedChili
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:09 am



Quoting SATexan (Reply 9):
How will a non EU passenger know that he/she is required to go through Immigration at CDG? Normally, connecting passengers will simply proceed to the gate where they will board their next flight. So is an announcement made as the flight approaches CDG?

You can't get to the gate of an intra-Schengen flight without going through immigration.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
I am pretty sure this happened just as they were trying to clear immigration, and not "the minute they landed at the airport", unless a special forces commando stormed the plane. And security officials "demanding the invitation letter" is nothing but them doing their job by asking for supporting documentation. Just the fact that they are this dramatic about everyday procedures shows the mindset that this "report" is written in.

Actually, when I've issued invitations for Schengen visas, I've always either travelled together with the person, or written a separate letter which that person can bring and show to the immigration officer on arrival. In that letter I state the purpose of the trip, that I take all financial responsibility, my phone number, etc.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
"The couple jotted down the mobile number and e-mail address of their son on a paper and handed it. However, the officials rudely tore them up and threw it away."

Yes, I am sure this is exactly how it happened.

I would not be surprised, as I myself have had an unpleasant experience with French police at CDG.

Quoting Alm1 (Reply 13):
And a Shengen visa does not automaticaly mean that you can travel everywhere in Shengen area freely. In Lithuania we occasionaly deport people (nationals of countries like Kazahstan or Georgia) for trying to board flights to Western Europe when they have stated on their visa application that their final travel destinantion is Lithuania (such visas are easier to get).

The Schengen visa rules actually states that, if you're visiting several countries on your trip, and the stay in each country is more or less the same, you're supposed to apply for a visa in the first country you enter.

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 14):

This is something that would have already been established when they were given their Swedish visas. Unless there was a red flag raised by the Finnish authorities,

I hope you're aware that Sweden and Finland are separate countries?

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 17):
It feekls more likely that they
A. Didn't have the stipulated funds with them.
B. Had the wrong visa.
C. Didn't have insurance according to specification.

B. They would not have been allowed to enter the plane in India.
C. Would not have been issued a visa without an insurance.
A. More likely.
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Kaiarahi
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:13 am



Quoting Cricket (Reply 20):
It did not help that these people were first time flyers and may not have been conversant enough in English to understand the Immigration officer.

Actually, French immigration officers mostly speak French!
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pylon101
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:19 am

Hm..I used to fly directly from Moscow to EU, if needed.
So I didn't pay attention how all this immigration stuff was arranged.

Are you saying that there are NO TRANSIT AREAS in EU airports and all arriving pax go through immigration - just to catch another international flight?

It can't be so. I used to work with US citizens going to Moscow via CDG or LHR or FRA.
They have nothing to do with Schengen visas.
Sometimes they have 30 minutes between delayed US flight and SU/AF/LH/BA flight to MOW.
Which means that they use transit areas to catch their flight to MOW.

Perhaps those unlucky people didn't get where to go - and just went to immigration???
 
PanHAM
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:43 am



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):
Are you saying that there are NO TRANSIT AREAS in EU airports and all arriving pax go through immigration - just to catch another international flight?

seems to be hard to understand. On a trip from India via Paris to Finland, passengers are entering the chengen area in France. They have to clear immigratio n and customs in France and then transit to Finland, or other Schegngen countries.

A "transit" without entering the European Union is not possible, as you cannot "transit" throught JFK on your way to Columbis Ohio without clearing into the US.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 22):
Actually, French immigration officers mostly speak French!

and nothing else...


These people should have transited through London or taken a direct flight from India to HEL on AY. But as usual, the cheapest tickets are bought and AF had the best offer from BIA to HEL.
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lewis
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:48 am



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):
Are you saying that there are NO TRANSIT AREAS in EU airports and all arriving pax go through immigration - just to catch another international flight?

In all airports i've been to, you are required to go through immigration when transiting from outside the Shengen area to an intra-shengen flight.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:51 am



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):
I used to work with US citizens going to Moscow via CDG or LHR or FRA.
They have nothing to do with Schengen visas.

Because US citizen don't require a Visa to enter the European Union/Schengen countries.
But a U.S Citizen flying IAH-CDG-HEL will clear immigration AND Customs at CDG.
The last CDG-HEL is considered as a "domestic" flight, just like if he would fly CDG-NCE.
 
JRadier
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:52 am



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):

Are you saying that there are NO TRANSIT AREAS in EU airports and all arriving pax go through immigration - just to catch another international flight?

There are, for example there are 2 transit area's in AMS, Schengen and non-Schengen with a passport check in between.

Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):
Sometimes they have 30 minutes between delayed US flight and SU/AF/LH/BA flight to MOW.
Which means that they use transit areas to catch their flight to MOW.

US-MOW means that you never enter the schengen area (as neither are Schengen) so you can transfer without a passport check (at least theoretically)
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RedChili
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:56 am



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):
Are you saying that there are NO TRANSIT AREAS in EU airports and all arriving pax go through immigration - just to catch another international flight?

On the contrary, there are actually two types of transit areas in Schengen airports: The intra-Schengen transit area, and the extra-Schengen transit area.

A person flying e.g. OSL-AMS-MAD will be in the intra-Schengen transit area in AMS, with no need for any additional check.

A person flying OSL-ARN-SVO will visit both the intra and the extra-Schengen transit area in ARN. He will go through emigration control, but not security control.

A person flying BOM-CDG-HEL will also visit both the intra and extra-Schengen transit area at CDG. He will have to go through immigration and security in CDG.

A person flying JFK-AMS-TLV will only visit the extra-Schengen zone in AMS. He will only need to go through security.
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GlenP
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:58 am



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 23):
It can't be so. I used to work with US citizens going to Moscow via CDG or LHR or FRA.
They have nothing to do with Schengen visas.
Sometimes they have 30 minutes between delayed US flight and SU/AF/LH/BA flight to MOW.
Which means that they use transit areas to catch their flight to MOW.

Perhaps those unlucky people didn't get where to go - and just went to immigration???

In the scenario you describe, they would be transitting from one non-Schengen, originating, flight to another non-Schengen, destination, flight & therefore would not need to clear French/German (Schengen Zone) immigration at CDG or FRA; they'd just stay within the non-Schengen transit areas of the terminals.

Again, in the case of an LHR transit, between international flights; with a reasonably short transit time & no requirement to actually enter the UK, passengers would not need to clear UK immigration.

However, in the case of the passengers described in the cited article, they were seeking to enter the Schengen Zone, in France, for an onward flight to another Schengen destination, there is a requirement to clear immigration at the point of entry into the Schengen Zone; in this case France.
 
RedChili
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:59 am



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 27):
Because US citizen don't require a Visa to enter the European Union/Schengen countries.

Irrelevant. The same would apply for a Russian citizen flying DME-FRA-JFK. He does not need a visa for Germany or Schengen as he does not enter the Schengen area.

There are some nationalities, though, that require a transit visa just to visit the extra-Schengen area in EU airports.
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icarus75
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:00 am



Quoting SATexan (Reply 9):
How will a non EU passenger know that he/she is required to go through Immigration at CDG? Normally, connecting passengers will simply proceed to the gate where they will board their next flight. So is an announcement made as the flight approaches CDG?

Wrong statement! Did you ever travel to Europe? I guess not because you have to go trough immigration at the port of entry in Schegen space before having your connection!

Same thing apply for let's say a german flying FRA-CDG-LAX-PPT : this passenger will have to go through the immigration at LAX before barding to PPT!!!
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OA260
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:03 am



Quoting Lewis (Reply 26):
In all airports i've been to, you are required to go through immigration when transiting from outside the Shengen area to an intra-shengen flight.

 checkmark   checkmark  I always have to go through immigration when I go to Greece from UK or Ireland.

Now this was a big mistake on the passengers part ::

“As we had already handed over the letter to the embassy at Bangalore to procure the visa, we expressed our helplessness to give it,” explains Ashok Kumar.

There is alot missing from this story and even the journalism is of a poor standard. They should have been more prepared with photo copies of all documents/letters of invitations and even a letter from their Son advising that he was prepared to cover all their expenses whilst in Finland.

A Visa does in no way guarantee entry into the EU. That is clearly stated on all applications.

If the officials were rude and nasty then that is wrong but who knows. The passengers could have been shouting and screaming. Unless we have video footage we dont know.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:08 am

Having read the article linked in the OP posting, other threads here on A.net and many other news stories I am of conflicting opinions.
One is that the Indian populace is adopting a victim mentality, one that considers the rest of the world has somehow adopted an "oppress India" point of view"
Secondly, perhaps the new found wealth of some Indians is allowing them access to travel but their knowledge of how the wider world functions has not kept pace with that privilege.

Personally I am not that sympathetic to a country that aspires to a leadership position in the world yet has such a disapointing human rights record and still cries foul at every perceived slight inflicted on those from the sub continent.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:25 am



Quoting RedChili (Reply 31):
Irrelevant. The same would apply for a Russian citizen flying DME-FRA-JFK. He does not need a visa for Germany or Schengen as he does not enter the Schengen area.

Not sure about Russians, but citizens of certain countries do require transit visa when connecting through Germany or other EU/Schengen countries.,

There have been too many cases where people miraculously lost their tickets and passports while at transit in terminal 1B here and only knew the sesam word "asylum" when questioned.

It has to be said, the whole procedure these people are complaining about is based on the fact that there has been and still is too much abuse. The flip side of abuse means that "normal" people who just want to visit their relatives and go back after 3 or 4 weeks are treated as would be illegal aliens.

Don't blame the Schengen countries, or the US, blame those smart a... who try to sneak into countries without following proper procedures.
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varig md-11
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:27 am



Quoting SATexan (Reply 11):
While the news report may not be 100% accurate there seems to be a pattern of dubious behavior by the French immigration authorities at CDG

Happy now?
And I get flamed when I criticize the fact such topics reappear every month....I guess this is this august edition (last case was the ex-president and CO and also the Bollywood actor case)

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 14):
This is something that would have already been established when they were given their Swedish visas. Unless there was a red flag raised by the Finnish authorities, it is extremely unusual to have to document this when passing through immigration.

Actually you don't know what you talk about: I am everyday working on many international flights arriving at CDG and Police ask all the time some people they have selected to prove they have enough money (either cash and/or credit cards)
It even happened to me once when arriving at SIN on SQ.
At JFK once I was asked my hotel reservation for INS to let me enter, so it's not only Schengen area or France that are concerned

To fill a visa application is one thing, it doesn't spare you from "real time" explanation, whatever the country
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ozglobal
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:51 am



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 34):
the Indian populace is adopting a victim mentality, one that considers the rest of the world has somehow adopted an "oppress India" point of view"
Secondly, perhaps the new found wealth of some Indians is allowing them access to travel but their knowledge of how the wider world functions has not kept pace with that privilege.

Certainly the Indian media is adopting a victim mentality and sees racism everywhere a citizen encounters a contradiction overseas. I could very easily make the same claim as an Australian passport holder when I go to India. It's all very simple, really: India has a vast relatively poor population by OECD standards. Therefore OECD countries will obviously tend to take a quite defensive visa and immigration policy with India. India will and does retaliate by applying the same restrictions on European, American and Australian visitors. The red tape I go through for each work trip to India is pretty impressive! Hence, Indians arriving in EU will be regularly challenged for the their bona fides and some will be sent back. I get something approaching this treatment every time I go to the UK as there is a high number of Oz backpackers who overstay their visas. Not sure what sort of burden they post to the UK economy however, as the Oz economy is in better shape. Anyhow, I feel like a persecuted foreigner every time I try to enter the UK with the stony face of the Immigration official reserved for 'problem' passports, the five questions posed, and not posed to my EU colleagues, the repeated trick question to see if they can catch me out, the ridiculous arrival card that has all the same information that is on my EU - French Residency Card which they refuse to read or even look at, but which is the only authoritive proof of my residency status.
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Francoflier
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:55 am

The one thing that surprises me about this whole Indians/CDG immigration officers so called 'witch-hunt' is precisely that it only seems to happen to Indian citizens lately...

I am the first to accept that french immigration officers/police aren't exactly well mannered, caring, polite or tolerant, they don't even speak proper english for the most part. But there are people from hundreds of different nationalities entering CDG every day, why would the Indians be singled out? I'm guessing these horror stories would pop up in other countries as well.

On top of that, I am not aware of any sort of animosity against the Indian race in France, as there are very little of them living there. If anything, these things would happen more with North African/Middle Eastern nationalities which are more represented in France and have been known to suffer from some racism from the authorities.
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ushermittwoch
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:14 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):
A "transit" without entering the European Union is not possible, as you cannot "transit" throught JFK on your way to Columbis Ohio without clearing into the US.

Actually you cannot even connect to EZE or GIG or MEX or what not when flying into places like ATL without clearing immigration there.
It is a real pain for non I94-W pax to connect internationally in the US and depending on your destination, even being from a "safe" and/or "trustworthy" country does not help a whole lot if you aren't in for some extra conversation in a secluded office...
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ushermittwoch
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:16 pm



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 26):
But a U.S Citizen flying IAH-CDG-HEL will clear immigration AND Customs at CDG.

Not true if he it's all booked on the same ticket and the luggage is checked through.
Then customs are cleared in HEL.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
PanHAM
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:32 pm



Quoting Ushermittwoch (Reply 38):
Actually you cannot even connect to EZE or GIG or MEX or what not when flying into places like ATL without clearing immigration there.

I know that, this info just was not relevant for the posting. I connected through YYZ to DFW once and had to clear into Canada first and 2 minutes later pre-clear into the US. Call it stupid or what, they're not set-up for exotic species like us and that's why they call us "aliens" like we come from outer space. . Big grin

The only time I did not clear US immigration was on NZ FRA/LAX/AKL, they detained all pax in a crummy room for two hours.

To be fair with US immigration, I never was questioned for longer than a minute and that was the usual what kind of business and how lonjg will you stay. Nothing more than that. In the good old days I criss-crossed US/Canada several times on a usual 2-3 weeks biz trip and vv with my entry slip from the first entry in the passport. No problem. But I had a life/indefinate/multiple entry visa then which unfortunately was voided with that stupid visa waiver program.

.



.
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Stealthz
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:37 pm

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 36):
Anyhow, I feel like a persecuted foreigner every time I try to enter the UK with the stony face of the Immigration official reserved for 'problem' passports

I wish I still had a copy of the letter(rant) that my father wrote the Aus Dept Foreign Affairs on our return from a world trip in 1969.
We visited 9 countries on that trip( a family of 6) over 9 months and needed visas for only 2.
USA, well that was fair as my father was working and training there.
UK, it seemed demeaning standing in the "aliens" line when our passports at the time were titled "British Passport- Australia"
Canada, Netherlands, Greece, Israel, Iran(direct from Isreal, imagine that in 2009!), India!! Singapore, none required specific visas!

Interesting comment from the OP's linked story....

Quote:
These bloody white skin racist people will never change ! We need to teach them a lesson properly

Certainly demonstrates a disturbing..disturbed attitude.

Cheers

[Edited 2009-08-28 05:44:55]
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HAWK21M
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:06 pm

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
Bad luck for the couple, but stuff like that happens 1000s of times everyday at airports around the world.



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
But how about let's get all hysterical and make a big anti-French racism thing out of it?


Sad case.....Possible that only one side of the story was reported.The other side is awaited.But this is not about Racism but about an Elderly couple on a first trip abroad.
Don't steer the debate the other way.


Quoting StealthZ (Reply 33):
Personally I am not that sympathetic to a country that aspires to a leadership position in the world yet has such a disapointing human rights record and still cries foul at every perceived slight inflicted on those from the sub continent.

Pity you tend to attack a country & generalise things.Especially with the attacks on Foreign students/tourists taking place in "certain" places in the world.

but this is something different.

regds
MEL.

[Edited 2009-08-28 06:09:13]
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Stealthz
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:21 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 42):
generalise things

But you feel free to do so...

This discussion is perhaps best taken to NonAv.( Happy to continue your biased and unknowledgeable diatribe there)

Quoting HAWK21M:
but about an Elderly couple on a first trip abroad.

Some sort of indictment where a 59 & 45 year old are considered elderly

[Edited 2009-08-28 06:29:27]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
cricket
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:47 pm

Agree, this should go to non-Av. And I didn't need a Schengen visa when I did DEL-CDG-ATL on AF even though I had transfer between T2C to T2E at CDG. Talking about Schengen I'm travelling to STR next week and I have a German issued Schengen even though I will immigrate into Europe in AMS but because Germany is my only and final destination this trip, that is the visa I have.
However, the part of Schengen I never get is that one rarely gets issued a longish term C Visa, unlike the ten year US B1/B2 visas that are usually issued. Saves a lot of headache the US visa system, though a valid US visa just like a valid Schengen visa is no guarantee of entry. If you have a lot of Visa's/Stamps in your passport you're usually done in a few minutes!

As for the money issue - most Visa's to Indian citizens are usually issued after they see a valid international credit card photocopy. If you don't have a credit card you pretty much need to guarantee a certain amount of cash - god knows what it is - 1000 Euro I guess for Europe (long live Credit Cards) that you need to carry.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:04 pm



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 43):
Some sort of indictment where a 59 & 45 year old are considered elderly

whats your take on elderly?.............18  wink 

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 43):

This discussion is perhaps best taken to NonAv.( Happy to continue your biased and unknowledgeable diatribe there)

Should be in Non Avi.....But one debates when there is someone debating logically,not emotionally & generalising on a particular country or community for some reason unkown to the rest.

cheers.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
757MDE
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:52 pm



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 40):
stupid visa waiver program.

I disagree.
As a British passport holder the visa waiver program has worked wonders for me!
I understand the visa you had before could have been better but all in all thanks for visa waiver! (in my own circumstances at least).
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SATexan
Topic Author
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:15 pm



Quoting VARIG MD-11 (Reply 35):
Happy now?
And I get flamed when I criticize the fact such topics reappear every month....I guess this is this august edition (last case was the ex-president and CO and also the Bollywood actor case)

You have no clue what you are talking about. Go back and read the Bollywood actor thread and specifically read my post. I have supported the US CBP for trying to getting supplemental information from the actor. In this case the French authorities did not bother to get additional information. They simply kicked out the folks. Get it?

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 36):
Hence, Indians arriving in EU will be regularly challenged for the their bona fides and some will be sent back. I

Oh really? So the EU challenges the bonafides of a Visa issued by their own member country? Besides, the kid works for Nokia - the most popular Finnish brand in the world. So EU authorities challenge the bonafides of Nokia?

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 31):
Wrong statement! Did you ever travel to Europe? I guess not because you have to go trough immigration at the port of entry in Schegen space before having your connection!

I transit via Europe when I travel from NA to Asia all the time. A couple of months ago I transited in FRA and in February I transited at BRU. I have never gone through Immigration in both the cases. However I have not connected to a Schengen country in any European airport.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 33):
One is that the Indian populace is adopting a victim mentality, one that considers the rest of the world has somehow adopted an "oppress India" point of view"
Secondly, perhaps the new found wealth of some Indians is allowing them access to travel but their knowledge of how the wider world functions has not kept pace with that privilege.

This is a sweeping and irresponsible statement having nothing to do with the original post.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 21):
You can't get to the gate of an intra-Schengen flight without going through immigration

Good Analysis!

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 19):
When she has tried to enter the US on her own (e.g. to visit friends in NYC), she's always been refused entry, despite a valid visa.

But I hope she has never been tossed into a jail and deported back to Tibet the next day.

Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 10):
But how about let's get all hysterical and make a big anti-French racism thing out of it?

You are the only one to use the 'R' word here.

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 43):
Some sort of indictment where a 59 & 45 year old are considered elderly

May be not in your world. But in some parts of the world 59 is considered elderly. 60 is the retirement age in some countries.
 
davehammer
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:01 pm



Quoting SATexan (Reply 47):
Oh really? So the EU challenges the bonafides of a Visa issued by their own member country? Besides, the kid works for Nokia - the most popular Finnish brand in the world. So EU authorities challenge the bonafides of Nokia?

As has already been said a visa does not guarantee you entry to a particular country. If what the CDG officials did was out of order I'm not condoning it but being 'elderly' doesn't entitle you to special treatment from immigration.
 
SATexan
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RE: Yet Another Incident Involving Indians And CDG

Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:03 pm



Quoting Davehammer (Reply 48):
but being 'elderly' doesn't entitle you to special treatment from immigration.

But they did get the 'Special treatment' though  sarcastic 

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