User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:53 pm

The nightmare that is Iraq is coming to an end. Operations are already underway to remove the U.S. military from the country according to the Associated Press.

"The U.S. military is packing up to leave Iraq in what has been deemed the largest movement of manpower and equipment in modern military history — shipping out more than 1.5 million pieces of equipment from tanks to antennas along with a force the size of a small city. The massive operation already under way a year ahead of the Aug. 31, 2010 deadline to remove all U.S. combat troops from Iraq shows the U.S. military has picked up the pace of a planned exit from Iraq that could cost billions."


Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090830/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq_moving_out
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:46 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
The nightmare that is Iraq is coming to an end

Yea I always thought being able to be free and vote for who you want in power to be a nightmare. Was much better before we went in. A dictator gassing people. Sounds good to me!  bigthumbsup 
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5171
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:50 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Yea I always thought being able to be free and vote for who you want in power to be a nightmare.

dictator makes way for a corrupt and equally brutal leader, yep, that's democracy for ya.
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:59 am

Well, see ya!!!. I hope Iraq continues on this path. But now, they're mostly on their own. I only hope democracy works there, because I would hate to know that we lost 4,500 soldiers there for nothing. The Iraqi people need to understand that this is their time and it is up to them to not harbor these terrorists. The enemy is leaving, but for some reason, I still see a lot of sectarian violence in the future.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:24 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
ea I always thought being able to be free and vote for who you want in power to be a nightmare

I think that I would get a different response from MANY of the families of U.S./NATO servicemen and women killed or maimed in the Iraq invasion.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:28 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Yea I always thought being able to be free and vote for who you want in power to be a nightmare. Was much better before we went in. A dictator gassing people.

That's not why we went in - that's the most tired line in the book. Are you really so concerned about people being gassed or oppressed? Doubtful. None of us are - and if we claim to be, we're hypocrites. Nobody here is picking up arms to go depose the rulers of any number of countries that are terrible to the people within their borders.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:34 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
That's not why we went in - that's the most tired line in the book. Are you really so concerned about people being gassed or oppressed? Doubtful. None of us are - and if we claim to be, we're hypocrites. Nobody here is picking up arms to go depose the rulers of any number of countries that are terrible to the people within their borders.

Very true, when will we see Zimbabwe or Myanmar liberated?
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:23 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
That's not why we went in - that's the most tired line in the book. Are you really so concerned about people being gassed or oppressed? Doubtful. None of us are - and if we claim to be, we're hypocrites. Nobody here is picking up arms to go depose the rulers of any number of countries that are terrible to the people within their borders.

Excuse me, but I happen to have a lot of Kurdish friends who could not be happier that Saddam is dead as well as I am. That man ruined the lives of millions of people. Also, lets not forget here how ungrateful a lot of the Iraqis are. We went and got rid of their dictator and when we didn't leave immediately after that, they started shooting at us and blowing us up. Lets remember that most of the Iraqi insurgents were regular citizens who didn't want the U.S. to be there much longer. And yes I do think that the world is a better place without Saddam. We went in for the wrong reasons, but at least the Iraqi people have the freedom to criticize their gov't without worrying that they will get their hands chopped off.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 4):
I think that I would get a different response from MANY of the families of U.S./NATO servicemen and women killed or maimed in the Iraq invasion.

I think a lot of the family of service members would respond in a positive way because they don't want to give the impression taht their loved one was killed for nothing. So your assumption is wrong. A lot of people I know who went to Iraq said that their job isn't to question the war, but to do what they're told. So please avoid the assumption that EVERYONE hated what they were doing there. And despite what you see in the media, some good was done there.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5171
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:35 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
Excuse me, but I happen to have a lot of Kurdish friends who could not be happier that Saddam is dead as well as I am. That man ruined the lives of millions of people.

so, where were the US when old man Bush decided to pull out and leave the Kurds to the hands of Saddam back in the 90's? if any group should be pissed at Bush' then its the Kurds.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
We went and got rid of their dictator and when we didn't leave immediately after that, they started shooting at us and blowing us up.

and backed a corrupt and equally brutal lapdog for leader, what happens when the Iraqi govt doesn't play ball? another war?

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
Lets remember that most of the Iraqi insurgents were regular citizens who didn't want the U.S. to be there much longer.

you sure about that? I think you'll find a great deal came from that bastion of US friendship, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...interesting bed-friends?

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
at least the Iraqi people have the freedom to criticize their gov't without worrying that they will get their hands chopped off.

excuse me, this is total BS, the only real choice the Iraqi's have is to vote for whoever the US backs with their money...in cause you hadn't noticed, the number of large bombings is actually on the rise again.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:05 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
That's not why we went in - that's the most tired line in the book

Like it or not it is one of the reasons we went to Iraq. Saying it isn't true just flies in the face of a number of speeches made prior to the invasion. It certainly wasn't the only reason we went in but some people just want to ignore that since it's convienent.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:19 am

Absolutely great news.

Iraq is a sh*t hole.
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:16 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 9):
Like it or not it is one of the reasons we went to Iraq. Saying it isn't true just flies in the face of a number of speeches made prior to the invasion. It certainly wasn't the only reason we went in but some people just want to ignore that since it's convienent.

Well not really - I can't remember a single speech that spoke expressly of the plight of the Iraqi people and how badly they needed rescue from their tyrant. It was mentioned, yes, but it wasn't paraded as the leading and morally righteous point from which the war was to be propagated. That's just insulting.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Pellegrine
Posts: 1766
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:46 am



Quoting BA (Reply 6):
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
That's not why we went in - that's the most tired line in the book. Are you really so concerned about people being gassed or oppressed? Doubtful. None of us are - and if we claim to be, we're hypocrites. Nobody here is picking up arms to go depose the rulers of any number of countries that are terrible to the people within their borders.

Very true, when will we see Zimbabwe or Myanmar liberated?

Or DR CONGO!!! Two civil wars, with the involvement of 6+ regional countries' forces. 2-5 million dead (who really knows?), millions more maimed, raped, and forced into war and enslavement. Absolvement from dictators...Where is the west?
oh boy!!!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:05 am



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 12):
Absolvement from dictators...Where is the west?

It's Africa - nobody cares, plain and simple. Colonialism is gone, but complacency remains.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9199
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:21 am

If Saddam was really the culprit in this, the US or the UK could have sent secret servivce agents to whack Saddam instead of making these two horrible wars that killed hundreds of thousands and destroyed so much.

Iraq was once Mesopotamia, the heart of an ancient civilization.

There are always other alternatives to war.

The trouble is they are doing the same in Afghanistan. Soon they will start the same in Iran, maybe even worse again for some false reason. This is all wrong.

Think how many people in the world can be fed and cured with all that war money.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:24 am



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 12):
Or DR CONGO!!! Two civil wars, with the involvement of 6 regional countries' forces. 2-5 million dead (who really knows?), millions more maimed, raped, and forced into war and enslavement. Absolvement from dictators...Where is the west?

I'm afraid the West sponsored the coup against DR Congo's only democratically-elected leader and then conspired in his very gruesome murder.

The U.S. and the Belgians assisted Mobutu Sese Seko's coup d'etat against the charismatic and educated Patrice Lumumba, then supported Sese Seko's brutal totalitarian rule for many years.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:33 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
Think how many people in the world can be fed and cured with all that war money.

Nobody wants to think that way - it makes too much sense to be real.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
fridgmus
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:28 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:11 am

PM Nouri al Maliki has hinted that US troops could remain past the deadline! Guess we'll see on that one.

I've been here almost six years and it's time for us to go home and let the Iraqi's fend for themselves. Most of them only care about increasing their own wealth at the expense of their countrymen. Maliki is so incompetent that he can't take a dump without asking one of his "advisors" on how to do it, provided it meets with Tehran's approval!

And the Iraqi work ethic?  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
Iraq is a sh*t hole.

Truer words were never spoken!  bigthumbsup 

We're outta here!
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:18 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Yea I always thought being able to be free and vote for who you want in power to be a nightmare.

Ha, well that all depends on whether you're too scared to step outside your front door for fear of terrorists attacks, kidnappings and random acts of violence. A true paradise of 'liberty'.

Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
The nightmare that is Iraq is coming to an end.

I doubt that very much.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
Also, lets not forget here how ungrateful a lot of the Iraqis are.

And you think that's all it's about? Ingratitude? How ridiculous.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
fca767
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:29 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:36 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
Are you really so concerned about people being gassed or oppressed?

What do you mean! Don't speak for all of us! alot of us are concerned about the way country's treat their people...But as for some governents like ours and the one over the water,

It seems to be alot about oil...

Iran = Before this bad leader came in, said western country made sure that this leader was put in because of oil, I only read this from articles recently...

Iraq = Oil though I used to believe it was because of how he treated people

Libya = Oil

I see a pattern...and it's sad
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:39 am



Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 17):
I've been here almost six years and it's time for us to go home and let the Iraqi's fend for themselves. Most of them only care about increasing their own wealth at the expense of their countrymen. Maliki is so incompetent that he can't take a dump without asking one of his "advisors" on how to do it, provided it meets with Tehran's approval!

So, all in all you would say it was worth the heavy civilian and military casualties this folly has led to? Sure sounds like you're confirming everything I suspected - that this tripe about liberty and democray is all a nonsense.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
afterburner
Posts: 982
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:49 am



Quoting BA (Reply 6):
when will we see Zimbabwe or Myanmar liberated?

Do they have oil reserves?
 
fridgmus
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:28 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:56 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):

I don't know RJ, I just don't know. I hope it was. We did want freedom and democracy for them, but did they want it? Time will tell.

[Edited 2009-08-31 02:00:59]
The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:40 am



Quoting Fca767 (Reply 19):

What do you mean! Don't speak for all of us! alot of us are concerned about the way country's treat their people

I'm not saying we don't care - but we don't generally care anymore than what we vocalize or react to when watching television. If we really cared, we'd be volunteering somewhere or joining whatever army will take down the oppressors.

That's just a fact. Concern is relative to action.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13760
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:14 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Yea I always thought being able to be free and vote for who you want in power to be a nightmare.

Good thing most of us in the US used that power to vote for someone who sees that even with the world's most advanced military we can't solve every problem.
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:41 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 11):
It was mentioned, yes, but it wasn't paraded as the leading and morally righteous point from which the war was to be propagated. That's just insulting.

If it makes it into the State of the Union speech you can bet it got more than a mention elsewhere.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...s/transcripts/bushtext_012803.html

The dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages, leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind or disfigured.

Iraqi refugees tell us how forced confessions are obtained: by torturing children while their parents are made to watch. International human rights groups have catalogued other methods used in the torture chambers of Iraq: electric shock, burning with hot irons, dripping acid on the skin, mutilation with electric drills, cutting out tongues, and rape.

If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning.

And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of Iraq: Your enemy is not surrounding your country, your enemy is ruling your country.

And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of your liberation.
And as we and our coalition partners are doing in Afghanistan, we will bring to the Iraqi people food and medicines and supplies and freedom.


Same with the speech on the eve of hostilities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/politics/18BTEX.html?pagewanted=2

Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast. And I have a message for them. If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you. As our coalition takes away their power we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror. And we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free.

In a free Iraq there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms. The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.



It did not receive the attention that Saddam disarming did but then if we were to invade and remove Saddam it was a given that their freedom would be the byproduct.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:06 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
The nightmare that is Iraq is coming to an end.

I hope this is true, but I highly doubt it. Iraq will be an unstable hellhole for a long time. From the point of view of those living there, infrastructure is destroyed and the average person's life is worse and more dangerous.

Meanwhile, from the point of view of the US, Iraq will be a greater danger to us than it ever was under Saddam--directly or indirectly, it is now more beholden to other governments hostile to the US, as well as being unstable. It is highly likely we will be involved fighting in or against Iraq in some way soon.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
but at least the Iraqi people have the freedom to criticize their gov't without worrying that they will get their hands chopped off

Aside from the Kurds, most (certainly not all) people who "criticized" Saddam's government and took action against it were Islamic fundamentalists. Now they wield considerably more power, and we did more than chopping off their hands to as many as we could. Meanwhile, the safety and security of the average citizen is much lower. Every expert not on the white house payroll before the war could and did predict this situation. Democracy is a noble goal, but informed and experienced people knew that it could bot imposed quickly on/in Iraq, certainly not by violence.

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 17):
I've been here almost six years and it's time for us to go home and let the Iraqi's fend for themselves. Most of them only care about increasing their own wealth at the expense of their countrymen. Maliki is so incompetent...

Most people most places only care about themselves really. This is especially true when there is a long history of corruption and strife in an area, where people will default easily from one form of repression to others, or to lawlessness. Again, though, since this was 100% predictable, why did we spill so much blood and money there?

It was clear that the situation was not a simple "government bad," resistance groups "good" situation in Iraq--however horrible and inexcusable the megalomaniacal Saddam was.

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 22):
We did want freedom and democracy for them, but did they want it?

I do believe that the great majority of soldiers who went into Iraq did want to help and felt a sense of idealism, and hence often frustration and sometimes anger that this was not simple or possible, that so many who should have been "grateful" were instead hostile, etc. But this does not extend to those at the top of the command chain--those for whom realistic understanding of the situation should have informed decision-making and strategy-making AT THE START, including the unforgivable decision to go to war in Iraq in the first place, at least in the time and manner in which it was undertaken.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
lets not forget here how ungrateful a lot of the Iraqis are

This is the most condescending and misguided summary of the war. You cannot expect people to be "grateful" for your charity if you 1.) force it on them when they don't want it 2.) your "charity" involves a total lack of respect and inderstanding for their situation and way of life 3.) The process involves the destruction of their country's infrastructure and security, and huge amounts of violence and death... It is basic human psychology.

Would you be grateful that someone tried to wake you up to the true path to heaven or earthly paradise by bombing the USA and/or installing a puppet government here?

Quoting Fca767 (Reply 19):
Iran = Before this bad leader came in, said western country made sure that this leader was put in because of oil, I only read this from articles recently...

This is important history, but slightly confused. It was two governments ago in Iran, and "said Western country" was two countries: the UK and the US. But it certainly was about oil (tied to contemporary fears about the spreading influence of "socialism"), and had we not toppled a relatively democratic and modern government to install a repressive, backward one in the 1950s, it is highly unlikely the Islamic Revolution would have occured a quarter-century later, leaving Iran and the world in the mess they are in now...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:27 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 8):
so, where were the US when old man Bush decided to pull out and leave the Kurds to the hands of Saddam back in the 90's? if any group should be pissed at Bush' then its the Kurds.

That wasn't our war. Back in the 90s, the agenda was to get Saddam out of Kuwait, not to "liberate" Iraq, (which still wasn't out agenda a few years back)

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 8):
and backed a corrupt and equally brutal lapdog for leader, what happens when the Iraqi govt doesn't play ball? another war?

And how is he Brutal? Has he killed anyone? How about torture? I like how you're assuming things that you don't know.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 8):
you sure about that? I think you'll find a great deal came from that bastion of US friendship, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia...interesting bed-friends?

Oh i'm very sure. As I said, I have a lot of friends who have been to Iraq and numerous articles have been done talking about how these men can be selling meat and one minute, then be setting IED's the next minute

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 8):
excuse me, this is total BS, the only real choice the Iraqi's have is to vote for whoever the US backs with their money...in cause you hadn't noticed, the number of large bombings is actually on the rise again.

Sectarian violence. As I said, if they don't want democracy, that's their problem. And as I said, yes they do have the ability to criticize their own gov't. 10 years ago, if someone criticized Saddam, they would be tortured and thrown in jail.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 26):
This is the most condescending and misguided summary of the war. You cannot expect people to be "grateful" for your charity if you 1.) force it on them when they don't want it

Are you telling me that they didn't want to be freed from Saddam's reign? If you believe they were on cloud nine during Saddam's reign then you need to check the facts. They did want it, despite what you think. They just couldn't ask for it because of the kind of brutal dictator that Saddam was. As far as i'm concerned, the Iraqis as a whole are very ungrateful, and i'm glad we're leaving that place. You can't tell me that the Iraqi people pulling down Saddam's statue and beating it with their shoes, didn't show you that they wanted to be liberated.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 26):
your "charity" involves a total lack of respect and inderstanding for their situation and way of life

Oh i'm sorry. By all means, we should let them blow up our troops while we bow to them because we are in their country. The lack of respect goes both ways. They hate us, we hate them. If they don't take any kind of charity with any thanks or respect, then we won't give them anything with any respect. So as I said, good riddance of these people, I live in a country where I can go to the store without getting blown up. If the Iraqis don't want that for themselves, then I hope that they feel happy that a lot of American and Coalition soldiers as well as Iraqi civilians lost their lives because of their ignorance.

Just a side note, the fact that they continue to blow each other up with the Americans gone, shows that we were stuck in a civil war between 2 tribes who think they are completely different.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:36 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
The nightmare that is Iraq is coming to an end.

For the troops.As for the civilians left behind...Hopefully democracy continues.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:36 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 27):
Sectarian violence

Yes, allowed to flourish because of this almighty screw-up of a war.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 27):
As I said, if they don't want democracy, that's their problem.

I'm sure many people did want rid of Saddam and to have democracy, but what makes you think people should want your version of democracy placed upon them in a way you choose? No use just making a mess and then blaming the people for your ill-thought-out plans screwing the place up yet further.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 27):
And as I said, yes they do have the ability to criticize their own gov't.

Great. I suppose the fact that for many people in Iraq that is now priority number 234 in their list of basic wants and needs is irrelevant? All of this so-called 'freedom' and 'democracy' means nothing, absolutely nothing, when people can't even enjoy basic secuity in their everyday lives.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:03 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
Great. I suppose the fact that for many people in Iraq that is now priority number 234 in their list of basic wants and needs is irrelevant? All of this so-called 'freedom' and 'democracy' means nothing, absolutely nothing, when people can't even enjoy basic secuity in their everyday lives.

You still don't get it. After the civil war in the U.S. we were in the same situation. If the people want to live in peace, they have to advocate if for themselves and stop begging for help making it seem like they're completely helpless. Part of the reason for their poor country is because women aren't even allowed to do basic work outside of the home. If they want to live like cavemen and treat their women like that, then how do they expect to prosper? At some point, they have to be productive in the growth of their own country and demand that the violence stop.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 29):
No use just making a mess and then blaming the people for your ill-thought-out plans screwing the place up yet further.

Ill-though-out? You gotta kidding me. I would bet any amount of money that if the Iraqis had just allowed us to help them and give them the care that they wanted, we would still be in Iraq and would be making significant strides. But they decided to be selfish because their tyrant was gone. Instead of working with us for help, they decide to plant IED's and kill our soldiers, and work alongside militants from other countries, then when they get caught in the crossfire, we're made to look like the bad ones. Now we're the ones that look like we're running from the country because we're caught in a stalemate with people are incredibly selfish. If they had allowed us to help them, we wouldn't be leavving, now it's too late.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:20 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 30):
If the people want to live in peace, they have to advocate if for themselves and stop begging for help making it seem like they're completely helpless.

I don't recall Iraq as a country asking for a US-led invasion. This was a situation that we in the west made - nobody else. We started this, we are responsible for this mess.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 30):
If they want to live like cavemen and treat their women like that, then how do they expect to prosper?

Nice way to talk about an entire country. Perhaps the fact that you clearly have no respect or understanding for other cultures is a good reason not to be invading them and then whining that people don't behave exactly as you want them to? Again, the US and other countries created this mess and started this war.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 30):
Instead of working with us for help, they decide to plant IED's and kill our soldiers

Sure, all of them, right? No - a persistent minority who have been able to benefit from the idiotic situation we in the west have created.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 30):
Ill-though-out? You gotta kidding me

Obviously ill-thought out. It is so facile and naive to have all these people standing around scratching their heads and thinking to themselves how strange it is that these 'newly-freed' people aren't all so grateful and behaving as we in the western democracies do. Precisely that kind of idiotic lack of foresight has led to years and years of instability, bloodshed and misery for many. I do hope you feel proud of that. I for one feel only shame for the UK's part in this. Pure, unbridled shame. However, maybe that's because I haven't been brought up thinking that my country can do no wrong and that everyone else should be like us and do as we say.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:22 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 24):
Good thing most of us in the US used that power to vote for someone who sees that even with the world's most advanced military we can't solve every problem.

Cannot argue with that my friend.  bigthumbsup  Alas also cannot argue with this either.

Quoting N229NW (Reply 26):
I hope this is true, but I highly doubt it. Iraq will be an unstable hellhole for a long time. From the point of view of those living there, infrastructure is destroyed and the average person's life is worse and more dangerous.

 Wow!

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 30):
But they decided to be selfish because their tyrant was gone. Instead of working with us for help, they decide to plant IED's and kill our soldiers, and work alongside militants from other countries, then when they get caught in the crossfire, we're made to look like the bad ones.

Bit of a worry that this still comes as a surprise. There is a reason, it is called occupation. Also disbanding the army and making the Baath party illegal put the icing on the cake.

Go ask the current chief strategists of the US military and see if they think invasions are a good idea!!
 
Charles79
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:35 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:49 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 5):
That's not why we went in



Quoting DXing (Reply 9):
Like it or not it is one of the reasons we went to Iraq.

Folks, this is now water behind the bridge (or something like that, you know what I mean). I did oppose the invasion of Iraq back in 2003 and still think that it was a mistake but now I'm more concerned about how we execute this "exit" and what kind of Iraq we leave behind. As ashamed as I am of my country for starting this war in the manner it did I would be even more upset if we simply pack up and leave, leaving behind a puppet regime which will eventually deteriorate into a newer version of Saddam (or worse, since the religious extremists now seem to have greater power). There are areas of Iraq making great strides towards stability and success, no doubt about that, but there are still terrible stories of public bombings, Christians being persecuted and drove from their homes, gays being tortured and murdered by the "official" Iraqi police, infrastructure in shambles, and widespread corruption in the government.

I want to see our troops safe at home as much as anybody else but, as a country, we have a moral obligation to see this through the right way. Otherwise the blood spilled by both the troops and the local civilians was in vain, and the name of our country will be tarnished for a generation.

What is that saying, that two wrongs don't make a right? We still got time to avoid the second wrong...
 
seb146
Posts: 13793
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:04 pm



Quoting StasisLAX (Thread starter):
Operations are already underway to remove the U.S. military from the country according to the Associated Press.

But, how can that be? Right-wingers have been assuring Americans that Obama is continuing the occupation after he was promising in the campaign he would withdraw troops and, therefore, he can not be trusted. This must be a false report put out there by the "liberal" media. Obama is simply a liar, according to the right-wingers, since he did not pull every single troop the second he was sworn in. Let's just forget the fact that he was told and supported a gradual withdraw. Oh, well. One more reason for the right to hate, I guess...

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
We went and got rid of their dictator and when we didn't leave immediately after that, they started shooting at us and blowing us up.

How would you like foreign fighters to invade your land, tell you what to do and where to go while waving a gun in your face? Let's not forget that there were private security forces from the United States that have no military rules to follow. They saw one leader who was from their own country replaced with another leader (remember the viceroy?) from half way around the world.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
radarbeam
Posts: 998
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 9:00 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:07 pm

So, did you guys found those WMD's afterall?
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:10 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8230017.stm

Gen McChrystal also wants more engagement with the Taliban fighters and believes that 60% of the problem would go away if they could be found jobs.

Probably applies for Iraq too, even now! Paying the Awakening movement was probably the most critical part of the surge. Not having disbanded the army in the first place could have avoided the situation entirely????
 
fca767
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:29 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:38 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 23):
I'm not saying we don't care - but we don't generally care anymore than what we vocalize or react to when watching television. If we really cared, we'd be volunteering somewhere or joining whatever army will take down the oppressors.

That's just a fact. Concern is relative to action.

ah I see  Smile
But I think we should all go to the country that is netral whichever that is...I like the sound of sweden  Smile

Quoting N229NW (Reply 26):
This is important history, but slightly confused. It was two governments ago in Iran, and "said Western country" was two countries: the UK and the US

Thanks for the clear up  Smile
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 13760
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:00 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
Gen McChrystal also wants more engagement with the Taliban fighters and believes that 60% of the problem would go away if they could be found jobs.

I heard this on the radio this AM and found it an interesting suggestion, but I'm not at all sure how he could make this happen. The Afgan government is incredibly corrupt, so it's not like we could let them start off a jobs program using our money. And one could imagine if Congress supported such a thing, even though it's extremely sensible, they'd be pilloried for making jobs in Afghanistan instead of at home. It's funny how we seem to support sending soldiers into harms way long before we support simple foreign aid, but it seems in many, many cases, foreign aid is squandered.

Another real issue is that the Afgan people need to be more directly involved in healing their country, but this is made difficult because so many are corrupt.
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:14 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 34):
How would you like foreign fighters to invade your land, tell you what to do and where to go while waving a gun in your face? Let's not forget that there were private security forces from the United States that have no military rules to follow. They saw one leader who was from their own country replaced with another leader (remember the viceroy?) from half way around the world.

Well, that's why we live in the greatest country in the world. It can't happen here. Those people have never been happy, so it's up to them to decide what they want. They always have a problem with anyone who is ruling, so I don't worry about that.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 31):
Nice way to talk about an entire country. Perhaps the fact that you clearly have no respect or understanding for other cultures is a good reason not to be invading them and then whining that people don't behave exactly as you want them to? Again, the US and other countries created this mess and started this war.

First off, if I have an opinion about a culture, no one else has to agree with it. If I don't like the fact that in their country, women can't even drive, then that's my opinion. Does it mean I don't understand or respect their culture? No. It just means I don't agree with certain aspects of their culture. And as for us creating this "mess". When we leave, we'll see just how incapable these people are of taking care of themselves. I see a future coups d'etat and a continuing civil war for Iraq, because they're so afraid of uniting as one. "Oh no he's shia and i'm a sunni, we can't get along". If that's the way they feel about it then fine, they don't need peace then.

[Edited 2009-08-31 13:23:03]
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
seb146
Posts: 13793
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:44 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 39):
I see a future coups d'etat and a continuing civil war for Iraq, because they're so afraid of uniting as one. "Oh no he's shia and i'm a sunni, we can't get along". If that's the way they feel about it then fine, they don't need peace then.

I think it is interesting that they were actually united under Saddam. He ordered the slaughter of opposition to him and his party, but, as long as there were no uprisings against him, there would not be as much killing by his Republican Guard. I find it interesting they had more electricity and more running water and more health care and women had more education and rights under Saddam, too. It's no wonder to me why the people of Iraq are so frustrated.

I just wonder how "peaceful" things would be if Iraq were allowed to be three separate nations: one Shia, one Sunni and one Kurd. Who would invade who first? Also, how many terrorist threats have come from Iraq to the United States, which is another reason the decision was made to invade Iraq. American troops were bombed by Iraqis because Iraqis wanted foreign fighters off their soil. But, how many times have Iraqis sent bombs or missles into American soil like North Carolina or Maine or Alaska versus al-Qaida?
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:54 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 39):
And as for us creating this "mess". When we leave, we'll see just how incapable these people are of taking care of themselves. I see a future coups d'etat and a continuing civil war for Iraq, because they're so afraid of uniting as one. "Oh no he's shia and i'm a sunni, we can't get along". If that's the way they feel about it then fine, they don't need peace then.

An astonishingly simplistic assessment of a very complex country and situation. It is this ridiculous failure to understand that you can't just go imposing your own system and values on such a totally different country that has led to this appalling state of affairs.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:22 am



Quoting Afterburner (Reply 21):
Quoting BA (Reply 6):
when will we see Zimbabwe or Myanmar liberated?

Do they have oil reserves?

Ding! Ding! Ding!! We have a winner!!!

Of course not, because American foreign policy is dominated by the need for US access to the cheapest possible oil reserves......
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
futurepilot16
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:20 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:34 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 42):
Of course not, because American foreign policy is dominated by the need for US access to the cheapest possible oil reserves......

Oh please, it's been like that through history. Do you think Alexandar the Great would have invaded the civilizations that he did, if there were no resources there? Besides, it's already been shown that Myanmar does not want us there, even after we tried to help them after their cyclone (I believe).
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:49 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 43):
Oh please, it's been like that through history. Do you think Alexandar the Great would have invaded the civilizations that he did, if there were no resources there? Besides, it's already been shown that Myanmar does not want us there, even after we tried to help them after their cyclone (I believe).

Excellent. An admission that the whole silly campaign was undertaken only for the gain of the US.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:05 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 44):
Excellent. An admission that the whole silly campaign was undertaken only for the gain of the US.

And you think the campaign was joined by the UK and others (including AUS) out of pure altruism?
Those countries will also benefit from access to Iraqi resources.

Always found it funny how everyone blames the US for everything when their own governments were just as eager to join in.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:35 am



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 45):
Always found it funny how everyone blames the US for everything when their own governments were just as eager to join in.

It's called playing follow the leader.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:53 am



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 44):
Excellent. An admission that the whole silly campaign was undertaken only for the gain of the US.

Game over!! Touche!  yes 
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:55 am



Quoting Revelation (Reply 38):
The Afghan government is incredibly corrupt, so it's not like we could let them start off a jobs program using our money.

Ay there is the rub and alas, the coalition of the billing has form in relation to this, best shown by the Rum(mie) remark about democracy being messy as an excuse for standing by and watching the post-invasion looting in Iraq. One suspects that Afghanistan was about the same but much less well reported.
 
RussianJet
Posts: 5982
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:15 am

RE: The U.S. Military Is Packing Up To Leave Iraq!

Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:47 am



Quoting StealthZ (Reply 45):
And you think the campaign was joined by the UK and others (including AUS) out of pure altruism?

No - which is why I have made no such assertion.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, mmo, MrHMSH and 10 guests