RussianJet
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Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:35 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8241543.stm

This BBC news item reports on the view that the EU is in danger of not fulfilling its 'promise' to Turkey to grant eventual accession.

My own view on this is that no granting Turkey membership is a good thing. The EU is already too large, and geographical and cultural arguments aside, it is already a lumbering giant of beauracracy and expense to taxpayers. Having said that, I am generally pro-Europe and see many advantages to the organisation.

Do you want Turkey to join the EU? If so, why? We have previously discussed the American drive to see Turkey join, and I think the reasons behind that are very poor reasons to allow the country in.

Will we eventually see the advent of the Eurasian Union? If so, when?
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:46 am

When I was in school; I was always told by the teachers that the people of Turkey were Ottomans, as to the Ottoman Empire, not Europeans.

I had to learn about Pont Euxin, the part of Turkey where Istanbul is.

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=h...&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image

I was never taught by any of my georgraphy and history teachers that Turkey was part of Europe.

I know everything now is geared toward being politically correct and going with the flow so it is fashionable now to say that Turkey is fully part of Europe as Brussels and Germany seem to absolutely want to integrate Turkey in the E.U. and I would not be the least surprised it it happens.

My opinion on this is that the E.U. is already big enough and messy enough as it is now they have a difficult enough time to get the EU laws and treaties together as it is.

Suppose they force on integrating Turkey they will also have to follow and integrate Algeria, Tuinsia, Morocco, Israel, Lebanon, Syria an why not Russia and its neighboring countries, Tajikistan and others.

Not talking about cultural and religious differences but this is taboo and should by no means be talked about.

 Wow!
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kiwiandrew

RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:59 am

I believe that the EU has painted itself into a corner on this - they clearly made a commitment to Turkey with regard to membership - to renege on this would seriously damage their international credibility ( of course for those who believe that the EU has no credibility this is presumably no big deal )

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 1):
they will also have to follow and integrate Algeria, Tuinsia, Morocco, Israel, Lebanon, Syria an why not Russia and its neighboring countries, Tajikistan and others.

so far as I know the European Union has not made a similar commitment to any or all of the countries listed above so I do not see the relevance of listing them in support of the EU reneging on the undertaking which it did make to Turkey .

While I do not think that Turkey is ready yet for membership ( which did not stop the EU from admitting Bulgaria and Romania neither of which were anywhere near ready for admission ) I dont think that eventual membership should be blocked .

As for 'cultural ' arguments I think these are just a convenient smokescreen - how much 'culturally' does Portugal have in common with Poland , or Finland with Malta , or the UK with Romania ?
 
RussianJet
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:04 am



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
or the UK with Romania ?

A very good question. I already think Romania and Bulgaria was a bridge too far.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
Portugal have in common with Poland

Well, Catholicism is one obvious thing......

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
or Finland with Malta

Fair point - nothing in particular.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:09 am

Romania, Finland, Malta, Bulgaria are all majority Christian countries.
Turkey has a largest majority -almost all- muslims.
That is a major difference there.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:22 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
Romania, Finland, Malta, Bulgaria are all majority Christian countries.
Turkey has a largest majority -almost all- muslims.
That is a major difference there.

I knew eventually that someone would bring this up - having done so perhaps you could explain how it is relevant to membership of a trading bloc ?
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:31 am



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
perhaps you could explain how it is relevant to membership of a trading bloc ?

I was thinking of religious and cultural differences there. The E.U. also implies that any population can freely migrate from one member country to the other so as you can now see in Italy it sometimes can cause major problems.

The "trade" aspect of a new country becoming is not the only one implied. Just imagine the number of Turkish workers who will look into moving to other E.U. countries if the borders are opened.
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RussianJet
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:34 am



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
relevant to membership of a trading bloc ?

Come on, the EU is more than just a trading block. It has become something quite unique over the years.
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Rara
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:38 am

One day Turkey will join the EU. And why not. All differences can be overcome.

What we need to realize now is that this day is very, very far away. We need to stop pretending it could be sometimes in the near future. We need to stop fooling our Turkish friends. We need to stop the accession process because it will inevitably end up a disappointment for all involved.
Turkey is far away from being a European country, and the EU is in no state whatsoever to accept such a huge new member.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:49 am

for what it is worth I am more frightened by the current membership of Poland with its hardcore and very repressive catholicism than by the ( eventual) membership of a (relatively moderate) islamic country . Krakow is the only city in the European Union which I have visited where I have been on the receiving end of homophobic abuse - and frankly I dont see that it is of any comfort that the abuse was coming from a 'christian' perspective rather than a 'muslim' one .

The point is that any member or candidate country , regardless of what religious beliefs a section of the population may hold , must be required to agree to enforce protection for human rights - so , by all means do not permit a country to join until it can demonstrate that it takes this seriously and commits to protecting human rights , but if it can show that willingness then religion is irrelevant .

Again , the issue comes down to one of credibility , whether we like it or not the European Union made a commitment with respect to Turkey , it is irrelevant now whether that commitment should have been made .( It is my personal opinion that Poland should not have been admitted either , but they have been and the fact that I personally dont like that is not relevant when weighed up against the commitment that the European Union made to Poland . )

If ( and it is a very big if ) Turkey can demonstrate at some future point that it has met all the requirements that the EU asked of it for admission then it must be admitted - to do otherwise says to the world "do not make any agreements with the EU as they may unilaterally choose not to honour them".
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:51 am

Pro's
------

Politically integrate Turkey into Europe

Freedom of movement for Turkish Citizens

More opportunities for current EU countries investing in Turkey

Human rights for Women and Gay/Lesbian communities.

Cons
-------

Human rights need to be sorted out

Corruption needs to be addressed

Turkey needs to implement its obligations to Cyprus in terms of the customs agreement it still has yet to adhere to despite guarantees to the EU.

Cyprus issue needs to be sorted out before entry. ( although its getting closer )

Civillian control of the military is a major pre condition set down by the EU. On the 8th July the Turkish government approved a law to give civillian courts the right to prosecute any military figure who tried to affect national security but how effective this will be time will tell. The military still has huge powers over the country.

Turkeys threats to Cyprus with regards legitimate oil explorations off the Greek side's Southern waters.

----------

Cyprus and Turkey clash over oil exploration

Thursday 11 June 2009

Cyprus said on 10 June it would press on with offshore oil exploration, despite strong objections from Turkey, and would open new fields for hydrocarbon research by early next year.

Cypriot Industry Minister Antonis Paschalides told Reuters in an interview that Turkey's decision to send warships to the area last year had not deterred investors eager to search for oil and gas in the eastern Mediterranean.

The first exploration deal was clinched with US company Noble Energy, which has already found a large gas reservoir off nearby Israel.

http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargeme...ash-oil-exploration/article-183085
 
ALexeu
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:52 am

I am absolutely against Turkey´s entry into EU.

1. They are not European country (apart from the 3% which is in Europe)
2. They are traditional European enemies
3. I don´t see how ordinary Europeans or Turks would benefit from this. It´s only the big companies that would use the Turkish control of the Bosphorus and the Black sea.
4. A lot of Turks would move to Europe.
5. They have occupied parts of Cyprus.
6. And the most important is that they are different faith.
I don´t have anything against Bosnian, Albanian or Azerbaijani entry into EU

Quoting Rara (Reply 8):
One day Turkey will join the EU. And why not. All differences can be overcome.

Sure. EU should also allow Japan and New Zealand to join the EU. Both of them have a good economy and we can overcome the differences.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:59 am



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
6. And the most important is that they are different faith.



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
I don´t have anything against Bosnian, Albanian or Azerbaijani entry into EU

and you dont see any inconsistency in those two statements ? Last time I checked most Bosniaks were (nominally) muslim - so why would you be happy to see one nominally muslim country in the EU but not the other ?

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
Sure. EU should also allow Japan and New Zealand to join the EU

irrelevant - the EU has not made (nor is it likely to make ) a commitment to those countries regarding membership , but it has made a commitment to Turkey
 
lewis
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:26 pm

Turkey will eventually join the EU and should, as long as some outstanding issues regarding Greece, Cyprus and some reforms regarding free speech and human rights get settled. For example, I don't think Turkey has a chance in entering while having laws for 'offending turkishness'. Such things go exactly opposite to what the EU is about.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 1):
When I was in school; I was always told by the teachers that the people of Turkey were Ottomans, as to the Ottoman Empire, not Europeans.

That is true, but its more like what they are now compared to where they came from. Today's Turks are so much different that the Ottomans that came into the area hundreds of years ago and resembled more like Mongols that the Turks of today (according to a turkish friend of mine).

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
As for 'cultural ' arguments I think these are just a convenient smokescreen - how much 'culturally' does Portugal have in common with Poland , or Finland with Malta , or the UK with Romania ?

Taking religion aside, modern turkish culture is quite similar to modern greek culture (inevitable after centuries of co-existence)
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:31 pm



Quoting Lewis (Reply 13):
Taking religion aside, modern turkish culture is quite similar to modern greek culture (inevitable after centuries of co-existence)

Very true. Music and food all link us. Its funny that Greeks are actually not as opposed to eventual EU entry as Germans or Austrians .
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:33 pm



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 9):
Krakow is the only city in the European Union which I have visited where I have been on the receiving end of homophobic abuse

Bump into a group of the wrong sort of young north African gentlemen on a Friday or Saturday night in Amsterdam and you could find yourself on the receiving end of homophobic abuse  Angry

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
2. They are traditional European enemies

That's a very sweeping statement. Please explain.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
4. A lot of Turks would move to Europe.

They already have done. Germany and The Netherlands have significant Turkish communities (on the whole very nice people, but I loathe their food).

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
6. And the most important is that they are different faith.
I don´t have anything against Bosnian, Albanian or Azerbaijani entry into EU

(my bold type)

Approximately 95% of Azerbaijanis are Muslim.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:46 pm

If the Brussels EU administration (I doubt there will be a popular referendum) and Euroepan Parliament decide to integrate Turkey what will we do with the thousands more migrant workers who will come into the richer countries like France, Germany, the UK, Italy, Denmark, the Netherlands, Finland, etc.?

Does not the EU have a high enough unemployment rate already? Do we need more qualified or unqualified workers to increase the EU unemployment figures? Do we need to have to pay more welfare and housing costs for all those who will move in with their families and have no chance to find any work? What if these people don't speak any the languages of the countries they move to, not one bit?

My question is what will we do with them if we cannot provide work and a decent living for all these people and their dependants when plenty of locals are put out on the streets because of hte economic downturn?
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lewis
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:46 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):

Very true. Music and food all link us. Its funny that Greeks are actually not as opposed to eventual EU entry as Germans or Austrians .

Of course we are not. Aside from the political BS between Turkey and Greece, I believe that the actual people can be friendly to each other, contrary to what most people believe.
 
Elite
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:15 pm

I think the EU needs to stop their expansion - at least for the moment... I know that this argument may seem xenophobic, but the mass migration that might result could be less than desirable.
 
Elite
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:36 pm

With regards to the culture point... it's hard to argue, and hard to explain. But the fact is that it exists - we can all pretend like nothing is happening, that we are all part of the big happy family known as the European Union, everyone gets along, the economies will be strong and the European people will be happy. But that is not the case.

The clash of cultures will happen, and it already has. The "Islamic culture" has already caused quite a storm on France, and I know for a fact that racial / ethnic divide in the UK is high. Turkey, unfortunately, does not fit into the EU well. To me, it seems like putting a Middle Eastern country in the EU... as I said, I can't really explain it well, but reality is different from theory.
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:54 pm



Quoting Lewis (Reply 17):
BS between Turkey and Greece, I believe that the actual people can be friendly to each other, contrary to what most people believe.

I have many Turkish and Turkish Cypriot friends and have been to Northern Cyprus twice and travelled it exstensively. Most people want to just get on with their lives. I have always been welcomed in Turkey and N. Cyprus, more so when I have said my Mothers family are from Athens. Like I said there is more anti Turkey joining the EU in Germany and Austria and France.
 
Asturias
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:50 pm

Turkey will not join the EU this century - nor has the EU made any binding promise to Turkey in this regard.

There was an opening for Turkey in the late 90s, but then it was decided that eastern Europe would better fit the Union than Turkey.

The inclusion of the eastern European countries was the final expansion of the EU, and it was a similar expansion as Turkey would have been.

It almost killed the Union, we still haven't seen the end of it and the identity of the Union is up in the air. Add Turkey to this and then the EU is dead.

This idea is the driving force of many UK «eurosceptics» who relish the idea of killing the EU from within.

There are numerous fundamental things that also prevent Turkey from ever joining the EU, but I think the above is the most pressing issue.

Remember, Turkey is illegally occupying an EU nation and expects to be admitted into the Union. One has to ask: are they insane or just stupid?

asturias
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757MDE
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:59 pm



Quoting FatmirJusufi (Reply 30):
Another fact to tell: Borat (the movie) has been recorded in Romania! I'm not talking for the part when he goes to NY. 

But that was in a Roma village that as Romanian as it is, doesn´t necessarily portray the majority of Romania, even though it´s merits to have joined the EU so quick are moot as expressed by other members.

I loved that movie though.
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ManuCH
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:57 pm

I think Turkey doesn't have much in common with Europe, there are too many cultural differences, and therefore it shouldn't join. In my opinion the EU already went to far with Bulgaria and Romania, which is causing migration problems in some countries (think for example Italy).

But then again, Switzerland isn't in the EU and I hope it stays that way - although I'm afraid it won't. And with the Schengen treaty, it's as if we were in the EU already for what migration is concerned. Don't you enjoy politicians at work...
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LAXintl
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:25 pm

At the end of the day Turkey should and hopefully will join the EU.

Membership will benefit both sides. Having a strong economic and politically stable Turkey will provide the EU a huge new growing market for trade, and feedstock of a young workforce (keep in mind much of Europe's population is growing old fast, and labor will be an issue if countries are to grow in coming decades).

Also having Turkey a country that truly bridges East-West will provide Europe a bridge and hopefully further benefits into the Middle East and Caucasus.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
Romania, Finland, Malta, Bulgaria are all majority Christian countries.
Turkey has a largest majority -almost all- muslims.
That is a major difference there.



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
6. And the most important is that they are different faith.

So I guess the EU must be a "Christian" Club only according to your views.

That is a pretty sad statement, and goes against the openness and tolerance Europe preaches to the rest of the world.

EU turning its backs on Turkey primarily due to religious or ethnic grounds will send a terrible message particularly to the non Christian world. Even the US strongly supports Turkeys EU membership as it realizes a strong Turkey under the EU fold will benefit the world geopolitically.
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BigBadBoo
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:42 pm



Quoting Rara (Reply 8):
such a huge new member.



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 23):
EU already went to far with Bulgaria and Romania,

If you accept that one force behind creating the EU is to be able to challenge America's superpower status and China/India economically, then the EU has no choice but to continue admitting new countries because it faces a terrible demographic problem - the population is declining in its leading nations and without annexing more countries, the EU would just fall further and further behind the US (and China/India).

For this reason, very much at the forefront of thinking among EUrocrats in Brussels, I believe Turkey will be admitted sooner rather than later.

BigBadBoo
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:42 pm



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 23):
Turkey doesn't have much in common with Europe, there are too many cultural differences

Geographically speaking, Turkey is not a part of Europe, except for a small part of Northern Turkey by the Black Sea. This was once known as Pont Euxin.

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=h...&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image

For the rest, Turkey is not a part of Europe geographically speaking.

The EU is all about politics and profit. It will be a lot cheaper to manufacture products and goods in Turkey than for example in France or in the United Kingdom.

So we know who is going to benefit if Turkey joins the E.U. Not our local workers for sure. This will lead to more outsourcing. Cheap labour and profit in the end are the key to it.

 Angry
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OA260
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:46 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
Even the US strongly supports Turkeys EU membership as it realizes a strong Turkey under the EU fold will benefit the world geopolitically.

They do indeed support Turkish membership but for their own agenda  Wink
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:54 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
So we know who is going to benefit if Turkey joins the E.U. Not our local workers for sure. This will lead to more outsourcing. Cheap labour and profit in the end are the key to it.

I suspect that the labour costs even in Turkey are too high for the average manufacturer. Having said that, I think I have a pair of Levi's jeans made in Turkey. How often do you ever come across something 'Made in France' or 'Made in the U.K.'? Seldom I bet. But most certainly China, the Philippines or Indonesia.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:00 pm

Some facts about Turkey's History. The former Ottoman Empire.

The House of Seljuk was a branch of the Kınık Oğuz Turks who in the 10th century resided on the periphery of the Muslim world, north of the Caspian and Aral Seas in the Yabghu Khaganate of the Oğuz confederacy.[19] In the 11th century, the Seljuks started migrating from their ancestral homelands towards the eastern regions of Anatolia, which eventually became the new homeland of Oğuz Turkic tribes following the Battle of Manzikert (Malazgirt) in 1071. The victory of the Seljuks gave rise to the Anatolian Seljuk Sultanate; which developed as a separate branch of the larger Seljuk Empire that covered parts of Central Asia, Iran, Anatolia and Southwest Asia.[20]

In 1243, the Seljuk armies were defeated by the Mongols and the power of the empire slowly disintegrated. In its wake, one of the Turkish principalities governed by Osman I was to evolve over the next 200 years into the Ottoman Empire, expanding throughout Anatolia and the Levant.[21] In 1453, the city of Constantinople fell to the Ottoman armies of Mehmed II, marking the abolition of the Byzantine Empire.

The Ottoman Empire interacted with both Eastern and Western cultures throughout its 600-year history. In the 16th and 17th centuries, it was among the world's most powerful political entities, often locking horns with the Holy Roman Empire in its steady advance towards Central Europe through the Balkans and the southern part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth on land;[7] and with the combined forces (Holy Leagues) of Habsburg Spain, the Republic of Venice and the Knights of St. John at sea for the control of the Mediterranean basin; while frequently confronting Portuguese fleets at the Indian Ocean for defending the Empire's monopoly over the ancient maritime trade routes between East Asia and Western Europe, which had become increasingly compromised since the discovery of the Cape of Good Hope in 1488.

Following years of decline, the Ottoman Empire entered World War I through the Ottoman-German Alliance in 1914, and was ultimately defeated. After the war, the victorious Allied Powers sought the dismemberment of the Ottoman state through the Treaty of Sèvres.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey#Turks_and_the_Ottoman_Empire
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LTU932
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:21 pm

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
6. And the most important is that they are different faith.

What does the fact that the majority of Turkish citizens are Muslim have to do? Turkey is a secular country, religion has just as much power there as in any other European country (only exception being the Vatican).

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
I don´t have anything against Bosnian, Albanian or Azerbaijani entry into EU

Aren't you contradicting yourself? First you complain about Turkey being mostly Muslim, while in Bosnia, the majority are Muslims as well (similarly in Albania)?

As for Turkey's admission to the EU, I do agree that they have to end the occupation of Northern Cyprus first, as well as settle their historic differences with the Armenians before any talks can begin. Other than that, I don't really have an opinion on this.

[Edited 2009-09-07 11:24:33]
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:23 pm



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
2. They are traditional European enemies

That's a rather specious argument. England and France were traditional enemies for centuries, and they get along fine now, the odd jab about eating frog's legs aside.
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LTU932
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:26 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 31):
That's a rather specious argument. England and France were traditional enemies for centuries, and they get along fine now, the odd jab about eating frog's legs aside.

And let's not forget the old rivalry between Germans and French. Both were enemies for years and after the war, both became the driving force in the creation of what is today the EU.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:26 pm

Turkey

Helen Chapin Metz, ed. Turkey: A Country Study. Washington: GPO for the Library of Congress, 1995.

http://countrystudies.us/turkey/

Acknowledgments
Preface

History
Ancient Anatolia
Rome and the Byzantine Empire
Turkish Origins
The Ottoman Empire
Ottoman Institutions
Selim I and Süleyman the Magnificent
Köprülü Era
External Threats and Internal Transformations
The Young Turks
World War I
Atatürk and the Turkish Nation
Table A. Chronology of Major Kemalist Reforms
Turkey after Atatürk
Crisis in Turkish Democracy
Military Intervention and the Return to Civilian Rule

Geography
External Boundaries
Geology
Landform Regions
Climate

The Society
Population
Language Reform: From Ottoman to Turkish
Linguistic and Ethnic Groups
Turks
Kurds
Arabs
Peoples from the Caucasus
Dönme
Greeks
Armenians
Jews
Religion
Islam
Secularist Policies
Retreat from Secularism
Non-Muslim Minorities
Structure of Society
The Changing National Elite
Urban Life
Towns
Village Life
The Individual, the Family, and Gender Relations
Marriage
The Extended Family
Gender Relations
The Status of Women
Education
Health and Welfare

The Economy
Growth and Structure of the Economy
Human Resources and Trade Unions
Role of Government in the Economy
Agriculture
Agricultural Policy
Irrigation
Land Use
Land Tenure
Cropping Patterns and Production
Livestock
Forestry and Fisheries
Industry
Energy
Mineral Resources
Manufacturing
Banking and Finance
Tourism

Government
The Constitution
National Assembly
President, Council of Ministers, and Prime Minister
Judiciary
Provincial and Local Government
Civil Service
Politics
Political Developments since the 1980 Coup
Political Parties
True Path Party
Social Democratic Populist Party
Motherland Party
Welfare Party
Democratic Left Party
Political Interest Groups
Mass Media
Foreign Relations
Dissolution of the Soviet Union
The Middle East
European Union
The United States

Appendix. Tables
Appendix B - Political Parties and Labor Organizations
Bibliography
Glossary

http://countrystudies.us/turkey/
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:33 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 33):
http://countrystudies.us/turkey/

Seems to be a useful link. Thanks for sharing.
Checking out right now.  Smile

Fatmir
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Yellowstone
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:35 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 32):
And let's not forget the old rivalry between Germans and French. Both were enemies for years and after the war, both became the driving force in the creation of what is today the EU.

Yep. I think the main lesson here is that if you want a country not to be your enemy, you should build strong trade relations with them - and letting Turkey into the EU would be one way (though not the only way) to do that.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:39 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
The EU is already too large

the EU does not yet include countries of the Western Balkan and Ukraine and Russia, which ARE parts of Europe

Turkey in the end will join the E.U., but at present, there are some clear obstacles like
> the Cyprus matter
> the lingering disputes with Armenia
> and worst of all, the unsolved Kurdistan matter
 
fatmirjusufi
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:46 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
> the Cyprus matter
> the lingering disputes with Armenia
> and worst of all, the unsolved Kurdistan matter

Two different hard problems to be solved out, excluding the Armenian matter.
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OA260
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:11 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
the Cyprus matter

IMHO thats not as big a problem as people make out. I mean the land part!

The Oil drilling will be more of an issue if Turkey continues its stance.

1: It does not regognise the Republic of Cyprus ( even the Un Occupied Areas) A pre condition to EU entry.

2: They want a Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus ( KKTC ) which if granted would be no where near any KKTC land or sea borders where the Republic of Cyprus would be drilling for oil. They need to make their mind up.

I think Turkey will destroy their EU dream themselves to be honest. The military will see to that.
 
RussianJet
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:44 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 36):
the EU does not yet include countries of the Western Balkan and Ukraine and Russia, which ARE parts of Europe

Indeed Sir, which given I have said it is already too large should mean that Turkey certainly should not join.
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eaa3
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:14 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 1):
Suppose they force on integrating Turkey they will also have to follow and integrate Algeria, Tuinsia, Morocco, Israel, Lebanon, Syria an why not Russia and its neighboring countries, Tajikistan and others.

What about inviting Turkey and perhaps these other contries around Europe into the EEA, where they would have access to the common market without being admited to the EU. This would be a Win-Win
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:34 pm



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 40):
This would be a Win-Win

But the EEA is based on the same four freedoms of the EU and that includes freedom of movement which is what most are against. They could set up a system where they could have free trade but maintain Visa requirements to relax the fears of the no camp.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:44 pm



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 40):
What about inviting Turkey and perhaps these other contries around Europe into the EEA, where they would have access to the common market without being admited to the EU. This would be a Win-Win

 no   no 

As far as trade Turkey since 1963 has had a privileged trade agreements with Europe already which was further elevated in 1995 by a customs union and 1996 free trade area. Half of Turkey's total foreign trade is with the EU.

Creating or relegating Turkey to a 2nd level, non-full member relationship would be nothing short of prejudicial and a slap in the face. If this is going to be the case, better come out an flaty reject Turkey outright.
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OHLHD
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:08 pm

I do not need Turkey in the EU and I doubt they will come anytime soon.

I have read that Austria is strongly opposing the entry and I can tell you why:

There are places in Vienna for examples where one as an Austrian is not welcome. Another perfect example is that they is a majority that is not interesting nor willing to integrate into Austria. I don´t say they have to be like us but at least speak a little German or respect the local culture. Don´t wanna know what happens if I piss against a Mosque.....
 
bahadir
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:36 pm

I was in Germany for few days few weeks ago and I have never seen people treat me with the attitude of 'I can tell you off' in any other countries i have been to.. I have great German friends and i like them to death but this attitude towards Turks is nothing but condescending.
Turkey has been one of the early members candidates for EU membership; if I recall correctly the application was filed at the same time as Greece.

Turkey is a great partner for EU and vice versa. The customs union helps great deal but at the same time when people are not able to move around freely, that hinders the trade badly.

Will Turkey become an EU member? I'd care more about it about a decade ago , now I think the economy is expanding to so many different horizons that EU is not the key to the prosperity as it used to be..

I couldn't give a rats ass if the country becomes an EU member, but I am deeply concerned about the Islamisation of this wonderful country.

I also think high and mighty Europeans will deny membership to Bosnia because of the majority Muslim population which , like Turkey, will push that great country towards radical Islam..
Earthbound misfit I
 
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LTU932
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:30 pm



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 43):
There are places in Vienna for examples where one as an Austrian is not welcome. Another perfect example is that they is a majority that is not interesting nor willing to integrate into Austria.

Integration should be the key. They should respect the Western way of life, just as we respect their way of life. My father used to be an Italian guest worker, who got fortunate enough to obtain not only a Green Card during his first years in Germany, but he also obtained the German citizenship in about 1980. He had to integrate himself to the way of life in Germany, learned German and learned to get along with people and fought his way to establish himself. I had to integrate myself, and I was fortunate that thanks to the fact that my father became a German citizen before I was even conceived, I obtained the German citizenship and have the opportunity to return home to Hamburg to start all over again.

In a nutshell, I as an immigrant child who became a German citizen, would also like to expect immigrants to integrate into our society. That not only makes it easier for us, but it also makes it easier for them.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:06 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 45):
expect immigrants to integrate into our society.

What does one mean with "integrate"? Its a rather slippery term.

I don't feel integrate should mean one should ever loose ones identity, or heritage.
If you are asking a group of immigrants to integrate so they simply melt away into society and cannot be seen that is shameful in my view.

Personally, I think immigrants bring every society lots of good things not the least of which is often a divergent view. Countries that have been open to immigrants have evolved over the ages to even better places to live. I would hate to see homogeneous societies without much of the color and flavor immigrants bring.
In my view being the native citizens, we need to be open enough to accept divergent opinions, dress, food, or cultural norms as I believe it will make us and our cultures even stronger in the long run.


The worst thing we can do is stand on a high horse and create a us versus them cultural battle.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LTU932
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:39 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46):
I don't feel integrate should mean one should ever loose ones identity, or heritage.

Of course not. Integration simply means that they adapt to society in the new country, learn to tolerate other people's cultural customs, learn to speak the language, etc., while keeping their own heritage intact. The problem in Europe is that some Muslim immigrants don't even bother to learn the language properly or just insist on living as if they were back home, which even includes the infamous "honour killings".

Immigrants bring lots of colour into a society, that is very true, but in return, all we want is that they respect our culture and also learn our language, just as we respect their culture. Wouldn't you ask the exact same thing from immigrants into the United States. When my father came to Germany as an Italian guest worker and lived there over the years, he integrated himself into German society but he never forgot where he came from, and I also understand that, while I'm German, my roots are predominantly Italian.

In a nutshell, integration simply means that as immigrants, they don't make themselves into outcasts, but rather become part of our society in a positive way, which also includes the cultural exchange that will occur as a result.
 
TIA
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:15 am



Quoting Lewis (Reply 13):
Turkey will eventually join the EU and should, as long as some outstanding issues regarding Greece, Cyprus and some reforms regarding free speech and human rights get settled. For example, I don't think Turkey has a chance in entering while having laws for 'offending turkishness'. Such things go exactly opposite to what the EU is about.

 checkmark 

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
Geographically speaking, Turkey is not a part of Europe, except for a small part of Northern Turkey by the Black Sea. This was once known as Pont Euxin.

So which continent should Turkey belong to then? By that same logic, Asia shouldn't accept Turkey either, since part of it is in Europe. And if Cyprus (and in no way or shape do I think that Cyprus is not European) is considered geographically European, there is no reason why Turkey shouldn't.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Will Turkey Join The EU?

Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:45 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 38):
1: It does not regognise the Republic of Cyprus ( even the Un Occupied Areas) A pre condition to EU entry.

-
They defacto have recognized the Republic of Cyprus already in the Treaty of Zurich in 1960. Their present "refusal" is just a political play of no substance.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 38):
2: They want a Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus ( KKTC ) which if granted would be no where near any KKTC land or sea borders where the Republic of Cyprus would be drilling for oil. They need to make their mind up.

-
They already have it, but would prefer to have the KKTC be merged with Greek Cyprus in a federalist way. The Turkish Cypriots have voted in favour of that twice, but the Greek Cypriots voted against.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 38):
I think Turkey will destroy their EU dream themselves to be honest. The military will see to that.

-
The military is the driving force for the way into the EU. That the military at the same time is not ready to compromise in regard to Kurdistan makes matters difficult

Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 40):
What about inviting Turkey and perhaps these other contries around Europe into the EEA, where they would have access to the common market without being admited to the EU. This would be a Win-Win

-
Most of the Arab World (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan already are in the "Mediterranean Partnership" a far-ranging network of Bilaterals with the E.U., and so, some 75% of the Arab World HAVE direct access to the EU common market (including science, education, traffic, etc). And exactly THIS is disturbing for the Turks who for decades were FAR ahead of the Arabs in regard to the relations to the EEC/EC/EU. And now see the danger to be "overtaken" by the Arabs.

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