MaverickM11
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Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:44 pm

"South of the Border," which had its world premiere at the Venice film festival this week, portrays Chavez as a champion of the poor, and includes interviews with the leaders of Brazil, Bolivia, Argentina, Paraguay (!!!!!), Ecuador and Cuba."

http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSL72457020090908
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:52 pm

That’s EXACTLY what he is , but most people get their opinions on main stream media about Chavez so that would explain why not many people KNOW the real truth about him .

John Pilger who makes great documentaries made a great one about what happened in Venezuela , its available on Google video for free called "War on Democracy". The War on Democracy' was John Pilger's first major film for the cinema. Set in Latin America and the US, it explores the historic and current relationship of Washington with countries such as Venezuela, Bolivia and Chile.

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q...en&emb=1&aq=0&oq=the+war+on+democ#

Watch and LEARN people






  

[Edited 2009-09-08 10:54:59]
 
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LTU932
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:48 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 1):
That’s EXACTLY what he is , but most people get their opinions on main stream media about Chavez so that would explain why not many people KNOW the real truth about him .

That's exactly NOT what he is. Chávez only uses the poor to win elections. He basically "bribes" them with free meals and hot soup, but during an administration, he completely forgets about them. They're, simply put, a means to an end, nothing more and nothing else.

Chávez has blatant disregard for the democratic process, his government made ACTIVE efforts to restrict freedom of speech, people who were identifed as those who voted against him in the recall election became second class citizens, during the 2002 riots he was responsible for the murder of dissidents who were peacefully marching to Miraflores presidential palace, and he's making alliances with people such as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-Il and other dictators. And even with regards to the last presidential elections, despite what international observers have said, the possibility that these elections were rigged is still very big.

As for Oliver Stone, his film is nothing but pro-Chávez propaganda. He just lost my respect.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:00 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 1):
KNOW the real truth about him

which part, the one where he attempted a military coup in 1993?
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
TIA
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:29 pm

It's one thing to have extreme leftist political beliefs and supporting socialism, and another making movies that glorify dictators.
 
757MDE
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:09 pm

As much as I find Chavez amusing, especially when he tries to insult in English, I got to say that you don't seem to know what you talk about, GulfStreamGirl and in spite of what you've been saying it's you who's been kind of brainwashed by the media.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:16 pm



Quoting 757MDE (Reply 8):
As much as I find Chavez amusing, especially when he tries to insult in English, I got to say that you don't seem to know what you talk about, GulfStreamGirl and in spite of what you've been saying it's you who's been kind of brainwashed by the media

And your proof of this is ??? , as i said , its been PROVEN that he wasnt responsible for the shootings that day in 2002, but i guess your a fan of what the United States has done to MANY South American countries ridding them of thier natural resources through american corperations , helping them put in place the World bank and IMF , over throwing DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED goverments and so on

yes IM the one that been brain washed ..lol , u REALLY need a history lesson
 
757MDE
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 13):
Its proven by video seen in that documentary , the corperate controlled media in venezuala NEVER showed some scenes that are in that documentary i wonder why...

and ohhhh im soooo sorry my spelling is sooo badddd

That's not proof of anything. There are some "documentaries" showing the opposite too.
And yes, you should be sorry about that, especially if you wish to give people "history lessons".
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
LH459
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:43 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 10):
as i said , its been PROVEN that he wasnt responsible for the shootings that day in 2002,

Capital letters do not constitute proof. If you want to add credibility to your arguments, I would strongly suggest you link a credible source for your assertions. Vague references to a documentary do not suffice.

Idealism is a very dangerous thing: it can prevent someone from seeing the truth, even as it plays out in front of them. Many progressives in the United States initially supported Chavez, but his regime has become steadily more authoritarian over the years and now represents an active threat to democracy in all of Latin America. His closure of radio stations and television stations speaks for itself!
I would recommend that you read "Modern Latin America," by Thomas Skidmore & Peter Smith. You will realize that Chavez is but one of a long line of caudillos (i.e. strong men), and the sooner Latin America is rid of caudillismo the better!
For what its worth, I hold a degree in Latin American studies, I wrote my thesis on the fall of Allende, and I am no fan of imperialism. Hugo Chavez is not who or what you think he is.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:56 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 13):
the corporate controlled media in Venezuela

Eh?? Chavez controls the media in Venezuela. He's promising to shut down more as we speak...
http://www.reuters.com/article/mediaNews/idUSN0520744720090905
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:24 pm

Quoting LH459 (Reply 15):
Capital letters do not constitute proof. If you want to add credibility to your arguments, I would strongly suggest you link a credible source for your assertions. Vague references to a documentary do not suffice

Well in that documentary it shows footage of what all the main stream media was portaying as chavez supporters firing on innocent people , well thats not what happened , its far from a VAGUE refrence to a documentary . Watch it for yourself ,all i ask is u take 5 minutes , start it from 22:30 in and it explains what ACTUALLY happened ...Especially at 24:30

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=the+war+on+democracy&hl=en&emb=1#

I wonder why the Corperate media in venezuala didnt show whats shown in the documentary ...makes me wonder why that SAME media is now suffering conseqences for its actions during that time

[Edited 2009-09-08 14:37:11]
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:27 pm

Dear Chavez supporters,

just in case it went unnoticed; what about Chavez leading a coup in 93?

And let's talk about the fact that he is the only moron calling for war because of the US bases in Colombia, or that it is a fact that he funded a few South American election, or that he supports FARC, or that he criticizes the US and yet it's because of his business with the US he actually makes some money.

I'm no lover of many US foering policies, particularly those regarding several dictatorships in the 70's and 80's, but not seeing Chavez as a semi (for now) dictator is simply not opening your eyes.
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:33 pm



Quoting 757MDE (Reply 14):
That's not proof of anything. There are some "documentaries" showing the opposite too.
And yes, you should be sorry about that, especially if you wish to give people "history lessons".

have you even watched it ??? , the media MADE it look like the people on the bridge were the ones SHOOTING the innocent people ...those were the pictures around the world ....but if you actually watch ....it SHOWS YOU that nobody was below that bridge they were actually firing in SELF DEFENSE...but of course the corporate controlled media in Venezuela and AROUND THE WORLD never showed that footage ,, they chose to conveniently edit it out .

And I'm not trying to give u a history lesson , just asking people to open their eyes to something they may have not realized or seen.
 
757MDE
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:56 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 17):
Well in that documentary it shows footage of what all the main stream media was portaying as chavez supporters firing on innocent people , well thats not what happened , its far from a VAGUE refrence to a documentary . Watch it for yourself ,all i ask is u take 5 minutes , start it from 22:30 in and it explains what ACTUALLY happened ...Especially at 24:30

That is shown in that documentary, and it may or may not be the whole truth of that specific issue. My point is not really with the issue of the shootings as I expressed earlier, but with Chavez as a whole.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 17):
I wonder why the Corperate media in venezuala didnt show whats shown in the documentary ...makes me wonder why that SAME media is now suffering conseqences for its actions during that time

The media are no saints, and pretty much every channel has their leaning and "soften" what is against it, just look at Fox in the US or RCN here in Colombia, but to talk about corporate media and stuff in the Venezuela of Chavez, where radio stations are closed as a normal occurrence and where the TV stations that are not pro Chavez get even physical attacks on their infrastructure, letting alone the ever coming threats of closure just for the sake of it is something I don't quite buy.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
what about Chavez leading a coup in 93?

So much for democracy, huh?

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
And let's talk about the fact that he is the only moron calling for war because of the US bases in Colombia, or that it is a fact that he funded a few South American election, or that he supports FARC, or that he criticizes the US and yet it's because of his business with the US he actually makes some money.

Yes, even though it's not really "US bases" in Colombia but access to already existing Colombian bases for intelligence and AWACS Airplanes and the like. I can't say I really agree with that, but the whole issue has been exaggerated by the usual suspects way too much. It's not like there wasn´t US military presence in Colombia in the first place, in practice things are going to remain quite the same in that aspect.

Ecuador is not really that far from Venezuela than Colombia, and the Manta base did exist from before Chavez was president, why didn't he go telling his mumbo jumbo to Ecuador then back in the day? How come a few more soldiers and airplanes in Colombia is now a "threat to the whole continent" when having a full US base in Ecuador wasn´t?

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 19):
have you even watched it ??? , the media MADE it look like the people on the bridge were the ones SHOOTING the innocent people ...those were the pictures around the world ....but if you actually watch ....it SHOWS YOU that nobody was below that bridge they were actually firing in SELF DEFENSE...but of course the corporate controlled media in Venezuela and AROUND THE WORLD never showed that footage ,, they chose to conveniently edit it out .

And I'm not trying to give u a history lesson , just asking people to open their eyes to something they may have not realized or seen.

Again, I don't know about that, I wasn´t there and any of the sides could be the liar, because then again, and as I said, I know the media are no saints and I am actually quite cynical of most of it.
But I can really tell that who needs to realize and see something is you, Chavez is not what you think he is, and again, this coming from first hand experience and not from the media, whichever side it may lean to.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:00 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 17):
the Corperate media in venezuala

You keep saying that as if there is such thing. The Venezuelan media is Chavez, and every day it becomes more so.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:31 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
You keep saying that as if there is such thing. The Venezuelan media is Chavez, and every day it becomes more so.

There was a such thing and what did they do , they tried to FRAME Chavez when the shootings happened , and as Ive said many times its documented in that documentary. The corporate media not only in Venezuela but around the world never showed certain images , all they would show are Chavez supporters firing off of a bridge then right after that, show images of the dead and wounded, they FAILED to show what the people on the bridge were ACTUALLY shooting AT , there were no protesters below or on that street where the bridge was located. The people on the bridge shooting (images portrayed around the world as Chavez killing innocent people) were actually shooting in SELF DEFENSE , so when u have media that's OUTRIGHT trying to FRAME you , can you blame Chavez for holding them liable for what they did????
 
757gb
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:59 pm



Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 18):
or that it is a fact that he funded a few South American election

Newest chapter on that: it was discovered that a company here in Uruguay was exporting books (about 50,000 of them) to Venezuela... that's all good and fine, except that the price of each book was about 6 dollars, but Chavez was paying 498 dollars each!  Wow!

The whole thing is being investigated, but through this "sale" he's giving about 32 million dollars in support of his favorite candidate for the upcoming elections in October. I have to admit but it's more subtle than sending briefcases full of money like he did with Argentina, but the tactic is the same.

About links, proof and all that, actually you just have to listen to the guy. NOBODY halfway objective would think of Chavez as a hero. More than anything he is a menace to the region. If you are a hero and you know you are defending democracy, there is no need to close radio or TV stations. It's so predictable it's almost boring.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:04 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 1):
The whole thing is being investigated, but through this "sale" he's giving about 32 million dollars in support of his favorite candidate for the upcoming elections in October. I have to admit but it's more subtle than sending briefcases full of money like he did with Argentina, but the tactic is the same

That happens every where in the world where people are elected , corporations and lobbyists have done that for many years although in different methods


 conehead 
 
757gb
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:11 pm

True, but like I said all you have to do is listen to the guy with a little objectivity.
I respect everyone's opinion. I have to say though that I disagree completely with your view.
The guy is popular with the anti US crowd, but if there is anyone who will bring South America to war, that's Hugo Chavez. He doesn't deserve one ounce of respect in my book.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
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LTU932
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:12 pm



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 11):
The USA isnt some country trying to make the world better ok , they put in power those who will basically do as they say for THIER own interests

Oh yeah? What about statements that the US makes, claiming to be the pillar of democracy in the world? And what about the Iraq war? One of their goals was to get Saddam out of power and establish a democracy, similarly in Afghanistan. The US is an interventionist nation, they just intervene when it's in their best interest, and this includes the possibility of using the military to topple a foreign regime, but that's a different thread because otherwise, I'd be opening a can of worms that has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is showing you that Lieutenant Colonel Hugo Chávez Frías is a warmonging dictator, who is continually eliminating civil liberties (most of all freedom of speech and freedom of the press) in Venezuela.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 11):
Hugo Chavez is agaisnt The American Empire , and rightly so

No, Chávez serves his own interests. Apart from what I said earlier about Chávez, one of the things that he's genuinely interessted is getting as much of his country's petrodollars into his own pockets for his personal fortune. Hell, if it wasn't for those petrodollars he may likely not be in power anymore.
 
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:46 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
No, Chávez serves his own interests. Apart from what I said earlier about Chávez, one of the things that he's genuinely interested is getting as much of his country's petrodollars into his own pockets for his personal fortune. Hell, if it wasn't for those petrodollars he may likely not be in power anymore.

Well for one the people of Venezuela now have a constitution thanks to Chavez , giving even the poorest of the poor rights that they couldn't imagine ever having. The poor also have access to free health care and education , that's also something that they NEVER had before,i wonder why so many of the Venezuelan people have so much support for him, but yet Chavez is some EVIL dictator , and the whole population just has no clue . Venezuela was more corrupt when the old regime was in power , that's a fact , only difference is now those big American corporations aren't reaping the profits from the Venezuelan people as they were in the old regime , i wonder why the CIA sent money to support the coup , and that's FACT.

Even if hes lining his pockets at least hes still doing something for the people that had NOTHING at all before in the old regime , health care and education for people that never had access to it before is a pretty good thing . life in the barrios has alot more HOPE then it ever did in Venezuela
 
757gb
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:59 pm

Reforms to the Constitution are a typical move to perpetuate themselves in power.
That's what Zelaya tried to do as well. As soon as they enough power behind them they try to change the rules in their favor. I'm not in favor of coups. I'm just pointing out the pattern.

It would be good to hear from members in Venezuela. They're living it and they're the ones who can give a clearer picture (maybe somebody who posted here is on site; I'm just going by the flags).

A typical behavior from that type of government is the perpetual propaganda effort.
You can go ahead and eat it with a spoon, or you can question and seek the truth behind the propaganda. As I say time and time again, I don't like others to do my thinking for me.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
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LTU932
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:00 am

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 27):
Well for one the people of Venezuela now have a constitution thanks to Chavez

Venezuelans always had a constitution. The problem was whether it was applied or not. Just remember: Chávez wants to convert himself into a "President for Life", or at least extend his term for up to 30 years or so, and he had referendums on changing the very constitutional term limit that he had put into the constitution in the first place.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 27):
i wonder why so many of the Venezuelan people have so much support for him

Have you met Luis? His username on this site is Luisde8cd, I don't know if he still reads this forum, but he's one of those people who lived through the problems Venezuela has and is still going through right now under Chávez. Most of those Chávez supporters are paid to support him in public anyway.

And those poor people don't even know what's truely going on, because they don't have access to the media like we do, and even the newspapers are so censored by the government, that it's like (to use something from the experience of my country) seeing for yourself that the DDR is near bankruptcy and dependent on hard currency from Western nations, and comparing this experience to the lies the party controlled newspaper "Neues Deutschland" has written about the DDR being successful thanks to its socialistic economy and "only" the cooperation of the Soviet Union and its satellite states.

To me, you're nothing but an apologist of Chávez, and for all I know, if the DDR (East Germany) was still around, you'd probably deny the fact that people who try to escape the hell that the DDR is are being shot at the border, and support people like Ulbricht and Honecker blindly.

[Edited 2009-09-08 17:03:21]
 
AGM100
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:01 am



Quoting 757GB (Reply 25):
The guy is popular with the anti US crowd, but if there is anyone who will bring South America to war, that's Hugo Chavez. He doesn't deserve one ounce of respect in my book.

And don't forget popular with allot of supports of our current administration as well. Weird the love affair with Castro , Hugo and the leftists displayed by some operators within this administration. Check the comments of our new FCC director ... sad.

Hugo is a socialist ( Bolavarist ) all dictators come too power with the ideals of populism and wealth distribution . It always ends the same ... economic devastation and a iron fist of suppression to keep the peace. See why some of us fight against the administrations actions here in the US... it is the same ...just packaged a little different.

I hope the Venezuelan people can over though this guy and restore real reforms and freedom .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
757gb
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:05 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 30):

I know what you mean... some of that anti US crowd I referred to is actually from the States.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
SANAV8R
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:21 am

Yeah any man that has a eight-hour weekly talk show is not self-absorbed.  Yeah sure He seems a little paranoid. He is always wearing bullet-proof vests, claiming all sorts of wacky things (subliminal salsa music).

From what I've read Venezuela now has the highest inflation rate in South America and worldwide only surpassed by Ethiopia and Zimbabwe. The rise has been attributed to excessive government spending in the past few years. It is obvious that he isn't helping his country at this time.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:36 am



Quoting SANAV8R (Reply 32):
Yeah any man that has a eight-hour weekly talk show is not self-absorbed. He seems a little paranoid. He is always wearing bullet-proof vests, claiming all sorts of wacky things (subliminal salsa music).

8 hours is nothing. I recall that when he was in his prime, Fidel could hold a speech for over 12 hours, basically indoctrinating people with it.
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:38 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 29):
Most of those Chávez supporters are paid to support him in public anyway. And those poor people don't even know what's truly going on, because they don't have access to the media like we do, and even the newspapers are so censored by the government, that it's like (to use something from the experience of my country) seeing for yourself that the DDR is near bankruptcy and dependent on hard currency from Western nations, and comparing this experience to the lies the party controlled newspaper "Neues Deutschland" has written about the DDR being successful thanks to its socialistic economy and "only" the cooperation of the Soviet Union and its satellite states

Have u seen what media is like in Venezuela , back in 2002 they had plenty of freedom of press they were constantly bad talking Chavez , everyday they were , because they are owned by corporate elite just like in the united states. After the coup attempt I'm not surprised some of those former media powers are now not getting their licenses renewed they basically tried to frame Chavez to be over thrown. Who's interests did those corporate (corrupt) media represent?, it sure as hell wasn't the majority of the Venezuelan population , they preferred the old Venezuela where the rich just kept getting richer and the poor just kept getting poorer.where their natural resources were basically being robbed from the masses , and only a few elite would gain. I would love to hear what people that are actually in Venezuela have to say , but I'm sure there will be those for and against , but you cant argue the FACT that there are many Venezuelan people who are now MUCH better off then they were before.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 1):
Venezuelans always had a constitution. The problem was whether it was applied or not. Just remember: Chávez wants to convert himself into a "President for Life", or at least extend his term for up to 30 years or so, and he had referendums on changing the very constitutional term limit that he had put into the constitution in the first place

Yes they did always have a constitution but the new one offers a much greater number of human rights, enshrined in the document as guaranteed to all Venezuelans -- are free education up to tertiary level, free quality health care, access to a clean environment, right of minorities (especially indigenous peoples) to uphold their own traditional cultures, religions, and languages, among others. No wonder 72 % of Venezuelans voted in favor of it , I'm sure the remaining 28% were the upper class Venezuelans that prefer the old ways.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
And those poor people don't even know what's truly going on, because they don't have access to the media like we do

They don't know whats going on considering all they had was corrupt corporate media and one state government channel back in 2002 ?, all they knew was how Chavez was this evil dictator as portrayed by them , but thanks to a few radio stations people actually had a choice of what to listen to. Do you imply that the "Main stream" corporate media we all enjoy is a good thing?
 
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LTU932
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:46 am



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 34):
Have u seen what media is like in Venezuela , back in 2002 they had plenty of freedom of press they were constantly bad talking Chavez

It is their right. Nobody is going to arrest me for talking bad about our Madame Chancellor, or our President. You may respect the office, but that doesn't mean that you have to respect the person who holds the office. This isn't the time of monarchy, where anyone who talked bad about the King or the Emperor was sentenced to death for high treason.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 34):
I would love to hear what people that are actually in Venezuela have to say

You'll hear from them, and I'll guarantee you that most are against El Chavo.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 34):
you cant argue the FACT that there are many Venezuelan people who are now MUCH better off then they were before.

I've already seen enough, and heard a lot from Venezuelans on this bord, and I know that Venezuelans are MUCH WORSE off than they were, especially since their civil liberties are being eliminated by the Bolivarian Republic. If Simón Bolívar would see what is going on, I guarantee you that he'd turn in his grave because of the shame brought to his name. Bolívar's name is about liberating the people from the oppression of the Spanish colonial rule, not about oppressing them in the same way they were oppressed by the Spanish colonial governors.
 
757gb
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:57 am

Sorry... is this the Anet version of "Alo Presidente"?
(that's what Chavez's regular radio broadcast is called)

Obviously you sympathize with him, but these points just don't make sense.
You're making a case for not allowing any media that is not aligned with the government.
So what if they bad mouthed him? Wasn't it supposed to be a free democracy?
Where does "Freedom of Speech" fit into all this?
You're going to deny somebody their license because they're not aligned with your ideas?
That's a DICTATOR in my book!
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
GulfStreamGirl
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:12 am

Quoting 757GB (Reply 36):
Obviously you sympathize with him, but these points just don't make sense.
You're making a case for not allowing any media that is not aligned with the government.
So what if they bad mouthed him? Wasn't it supposed to be a free democracy?
Where does "Freedom of Speech" fit into all this?
You're going to deny somebody their license because they're not aligned with your ideas?
That's a DICTATOR in my book!

I'm not saying that they should be denied free speech nor abolish any media that bad talks him , but when you have major Venezuelan media conglomerates that MAKE AN EFFORT to FRAME a leader , ummm i don't think its a bad idea that they not be allowed to run anymore. Who's interests do they have in mind?, its definitely not the peoples.

But lets believe the corporate media because they always have the interests of the people in mind in every country in the world , just like lee Harvey Oswald is the one who killed Kennedy and that 19 hijackers from Saudi Arabia were the only ones involved in 911 , what great corporate media we have .

We need more corporate media to tell us how the world really is because they know whats best

[Edited 2009-09-08 18:14:24]
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13091
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:13 am



Quoting 757GB (Reply 36):
Sorry... is this the Anet version of "Alo Presidente"?
(that's what Chavez's regular radio broadcast is called)

Don't they show that dumb show on television as well?

Quoting 757GB (Reply 36):
Obviously you sympathize with him, but these points just don't make sense.

Just a pointer: I suggest you always mention whom you're referring to as sympathiser, just to avoid any misunderstandings.  Wink
 
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LTU932
Posts: 13091
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:18 am



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 37):
But lets believe the corporate media because they always have the interests of the people in mind in every country in the world , just like lee Harvey Oswald is the one who killed Kennedy and that 19 hijackers from Saudi Arabia were the only ones involved in 911 , what great corporate media we have .

OK, so you seem to believe that everything is a big conspiracy led by the US government (or at least that's what your post is suggesting). Newsflash: Not everything is a conspiracy. 9/11 was very real, and yet people come up with most ridiculous theories about 9/11 being nothing but a deception by the US government, just as the murder of Kennedy is suspected of being a conspiracy executed by those in the government, who wanted to continue the Vietnam war or something.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4651
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:21 am



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 34):
Do you imply that the "Main stream" corporate media we all enjoy is a good thing?

I can't think of an example of a single state-run medium that didn't spread lies and disinformation.

While I can agree that big corporate media is also biased, to completely ban them and present only one side is hardly a good thing.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 34):
No wonder 72 % of Venezuelans voted in favor of it , I'm sure the remaining 28% were the upper class Venezuelans that prefer the old ways.

Ahhh, look who's spreading lies now. 72% of eligible voters cast a ballot, with just over 50% of them approving. So it was the other 50% that are upper class?

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 34):

They don't know whats going on considering all they had was corrupt corporate media and one state government channel back in 2002 ?

And now they have corrupt state-run media.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
HOMER71
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Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:56 pm

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:23 am

I don't know about the REST of you, but there is NO DOUBT, that GulfStreamGirl is my FAVORITE poster on ANET....hands DOWN.

I think I WILL become Canadian for HER.
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:11 am



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 24):
That happens every where in the world where people are elected , corporations and lobbyists have done that for many years although in different methods

foreign corporations?

Quoting 757GB (Reply 25):
The guy is popular with the anti US crowd, but if there is anyone who will bring South America to war, that's Hugo Chavez. He doesn't deserve one ounce of respect in my book.

Could not agree more.

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 11):
Hugo Chavez is agaisnt The American Empire , and rightly so

And yet he makes a living out of the empire, doesn't he? Who does he sell his oil to? How's that for irony ...

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 37):
I'm not saying that they should be denied free speech nor abolish any media that bad talks him , but when you have major Venezuelan media conglomerates that MAKE AN EFFORT to FRAME a leader

And when you have a leader trying to shut down all opposition, it's obvious you are going to piss off a lot of people.

You keep on defending a guy who is in love with the Castro regime, who is slowly but surely taking power in all aspets of Venezuelan society, who won't allow their citizens to travel abroad (sort of). I can understand some of the crticism towards the US. Living in South America we see this often, sometimes with valid points and other times with a load of BS, but just because you hate corporate America does not make Chavez a good guy. He is a semi dictator, pretty keen on getting the "semi" out of the way. I'm pretty sure in your comfortable life in Canada you can see only the good things of the anti imperialists, but I would love to see you in a place where you are barely allowed to criticize, travel, etc.

I'm sure you don't know this, but did you know that during the America Cup that took place in Venezuela some anti Chavez chants started from the crowd? And suddenly they put very loud music in the stadium so the chants were not heard, especially by the international audience. Free speech 101 huh?
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
Avianca
Posts: 5283
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:21 am



Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 27):
. Venezuela was more corrupt when the old regime was in power

are you sure.... you have here even to "pay" in order to not stand the complete day in a line of a bank... if you do not pay the cashier ... you wont be served in a adequate time........ that the day day here just to mention one example...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 38):
Don't they show that dumb show on television as well?

yes they do ...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:35 am

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 1):
John Pilger who makes great documentaries made a great one about what happened in Venezuela

I used to think that about Chavez, but now I tend to think that he uses the poor for his own gain.

check this out, Pilger is a great Australian journalist, but there are other great Australian journos bringing stories from Caracas.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2009/s2652832.htm

interesting piece a few weeks ago on Hugo.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
I've seen the riots live on television through a feed of Globovisión (which Chávez now wants to shut down because they're not sympathetic with the government, the same reason used for shutting down RCTV). I don't need to view some documentary to make up my mind about something I've seen live, as it occured.

then you would be wrong...if you're not willing to explore then you have no position commenting, fact of the matter is that what GSG says is correct.

[Edited 2009-09-08 19:39:35]
 
GulfStreamGirl
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:41 am



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 40):
I can't think of an example of a single state-run medium that didn't spread lies and disinformation.

While I can agree that big corporate media is also biased, to completely ban them and present only one side is hardly a good thing.

Well i didn't say that having ONLY state controlled media is a good thing , i just said that the media THAT is not having their licenses reinstated are the SAME corporate media that tried to FRAME Chavez , which is FACT. Don't get me wrong , I'm not making it out to be that , just because some media disagrees with Chavez there to be thrown out , because that's far from the case.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 40):
Ahhh, look who's spreading lies now. 72% of eligible voters cast a ballot, with just over 50% of them approving. So it was the other 50% that are upper class?

ummm I'm not spreading lies i think your have me confused , I'm NOT talking about the referendum on increasing the time he can be in office , I'm speaking of the REFORMS made to the CONSTITUTION that took place in 1999.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 40):
And now they have corrupt state-run media

well i guess now they are right along side most of the world with corrupt government and media , at least hes done some GOOD , just because hes portrayed as a EVIL DICTATOR in the world media that's controlled by just a few elites , that doesn't make him as bad as they make him out to be . I think there's a lot more people in that country that feel they have hope VS the ones that think there isn't any , if that were the case , why would millions come to the streets and DEMAND he be released from being kidnapped when a REAL DICTATOR took his place in office for 2 days.

I'm sure all the people in the barrios would rather have the old government that welcomes major corporations to take the wealth of their country vs Chavez taking it and AT LEAST making life better for the people that LIVE there. I don't think he can make everyone happy , but its kinda odd that the MAJORITY thinks hes doing just fine.

Quoting Homer71 (Reply 41):
I don't know about the REST of you, but there is NO DOUBT, that GulfStreamGirl is my FAVORITE poster on ANET....hands DOWN.

I think I WILL become Canadian for HER

awwwww your cute , you might not need to become Canadian , just keep your fingers crossed we form the North American Union , then we will all be the same  Wink


 conehead  <---the all seeing happy face
 
GulfStreamGirl
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:58 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 39):
OK, so you seem to believe that everything is a big conspiracy led by the US government (or at least that's what your post is suggesting). Newsflash: Not everything is a conspiracy. 9/11 was very real, and yet people come up with most ridiculous theories about 9/11 being nothing but a deception by the US government, just as the murder of Kennedy is suspected of being a conspiracy executed by those in the government, who wanted to continue the Vietnam war or something.

I don't think EVERYTHING is a big conspiracy and yes 9 11 was very real , but so are the QUESTIONS that many people have ABOUT THAT DAY, and Kennedy was assassinated because he wanted to CONTINUE THE VIETNAM WAR??????? wtf , more like he was going to abolish the FEDERAL RESERVE ACT , hmmmm i wonder why Abraham Lincoln was assassinated as well , could it be for the same reasons ....nooooo of course not.




 conehead 
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:06 am

GSG, seriously, do you avoid this on purpose? Chavez attempted a coup in 1993! What he criticizes about Honduras now .. well .. he did it! How cna you expect eqaulity and free speech from someone who attempted a coup?
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Oliver Stone Has A Film About Hugo Chavez

Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:08 am

As this thread was not an example of good discussion, it's now closed.

Any posts after this advice, if any and due to system lag, will be deleted.
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