tsaord
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Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:39 pm

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...9/10/wilsons-opponent-raises-100k/

Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Joe Wilson's outburst has resulted in a cash windfall for his 2010 Democratic challenger Rob Miller.

According to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Miller raised $100,000 overnight from 3,000 individual donors after Wilson shouted "You lie!" at President Obama during his address to Congress on Wednesday night.

If that is indeed true I think it signals that still Americans believe you should respect the office of the President whether you disagree with him or not. Things like that should not be tolerated. But if its enough to cost him his seat remains to be seen.
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NIKV69
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:41 pm

I think we all agree that behavior was not acceptable but as far as his seat I am not so sure. Not to mention if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case) it will be a boost to him.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:33 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
...mention if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case)...

How is it "probably the case"?

Please show me how.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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HOMER71
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:41 pm

Nice going, Joe, way to provide fuel for the Dems...

Idiot.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:50 pm



Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
If that is indeed true I think it signals that still Americans believe you should respect the office of the President whether you disagree with him or not. Things like that should not be tolerated. But if its enough to cost him his seat remains to be seen.

First, Wilson is an idiot, right off the bat. The republicans all come up with these crazy ideas to which they have no evidence. No where in the bill has it come out that Obama's healthcare supports illegals. Second, I thought it was completely disrespectful and a lack of ethics on his part. How dare him disrespect the leader of this country during such an important speech to the senate and the country. I don't care if it was a camera guy or a janitor who said, but a senator? When Bush proposed (well not proposed but actually LIED) to the senate about Saddam's WMD's, no one interrupted him and called him a LIAR. They all gave him the respect he deserves, whether they like him or not. I thought he was completely ignorant and I hope he resigns. Whether you think Obama is a liar or not, it's total not the right place for you to be shouting that out. Everyone, and I mean everyone including republicans and dem's denounced his action. He is going to regret what he did because he'll never be re-elected to another senate seat. How immature.

And I do hope this gives Obama a lift. It shows how immature these republicans are. All these talks of death panels and what not, it's totally absured.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
Force13
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:58 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case)

Uh, it is in the legislation that Obama was, in fact, correct. We can all read it and even many republicans looked at Mr. Wilson with disdain after he opened his mouth.

Add to the fact that Mr. Wilson is in the National Guard his little outburst coul;d get him court martialed (I think that's unlikely)
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slider
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:14 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
No where in the bill has it come out that Obama's healthcare supports illegals.

http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

Eligible individuals can certainly be construed to mean illegals. Per the link below, the Congressional Research Service notes that HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent. Unless it has a specific inhibitor, the assumption is made that illegals ARE included in coverage. Thus far, Obama hasn’t said a peep about it, nor have any of the House or Senate lapdogs when pushed on it.

So in substance, Wilson was correct and while I too denounce his method, on some level, I’m glad someone cut through the charming oratory and nebulosity to call something like it is. Why doesn’t Obama himself clarify then? Ask yourself that. And why was there derisive laughing when Obama himself said there are details to be worked out? It’s laughable, that’s why. The whole damned bill is ridiculous, poorly constructed, even more poorly justified from an economic sense, not paid for, no answers have been giving nor are they forthcoming, and yet the “crisis” peddling continues.

No wonder town hall meetings are angry. No wonder the American people are speaking out!!


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Alias1024
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:46 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
Per the link below, the Congressional Research Service notes that HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent.

Except for Sec. 246 which is titled "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens", which specifically prohibits affordability credits for anyone not lawfully present in the United States.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:46 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent.

From factcheck.org:

However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we’ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
No wonder town hall meetings are angry. No wonder the American people are speaking out!!

Oh, Americans are speaking out! Vast droves of Americans are getting angry and are ready to topple our current socialist government!

Baloney! A few right wingers who can't ever stand it when they don't get their way and who attack our government institutions any time they don't get their desired result. The courts are always "activists", Congress is always "corrupt" and the presidency is a "socialist/fascist conspiracy".

A few years ago anybody who had a voice who questioned our reasons for going to war was criticized severely, accused of treason.

The president can't give a speech without somebody throwing a tantrum? That's all it is; somebody who wants to get his own way. This is why so many people who consider themselves conservatives, who are intellectually honest and principled in their beliefs, are leaving the Republican Party.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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D L X
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:09 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

Eligible individuals can certainly be construed to mean illegals.

You just linked to a 615 page file. Why don't you point out the part that you think is offensive to you re: illegals.
(But be warned, I will respond with facts. I'll start with this one: the actual bill: http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf . Now, turn to page 143. What does it say?)

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
So in substance, Wilson was correct

If by correct, you mean incorrect. It's right there in the bill. Look at page 143.

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
Why doesn’t Obama himself clarify then?

Uh... what do you think he was doing when Wilson called him a liar?

Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
No wonder town hall meetings are angry.

That's typically what happens when bullheaded people rush in without the facts.



Anyway, back to Col. Joe Wilson (Army Colonel, Reserves). This is interesting, from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:

"Article 88: Contempt Toward Officials: Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the... Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.''

http://www.army.mil/references/ucmj/...8.%20CONTEMPT%20TOWARD%20OFFICIALS


Court martial the dude.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
if Obama is found to have been lying (which is probably the case)

Because Nick, you know everything and OF CORSE he is lying how stupid of us to even doubt you. Heres a suggestion. Take foot. Place in mouth.  sarcastic 

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 8):
Oh, Americans are speaking out! Vast droves of Americans are getting angry and are ready to topple our current socialist government!

Seriously? Socialist? Get a grip....  sarcastic 
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mirrodie
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:48 pm

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 8):


Quoting Slider (Reply 6):
HR 3200 does NOT contain any restrictions on non-citizens, legal or illegal, temp or permanent.

From factcheck.org:

However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can’t get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we’ve said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

So per factcheck.org, Obama is being truthful.

Obama didn't have much choice. He doesn't exactly have the option to get all ghetto on Wilson.

But if Obama did respond accordingly, I would have thoroughly enjoyed it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hROW4MXNMmM

[Edited 2009-09-10 09:54:05]
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slider
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:03 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 7):
Except for Sec. 246 which is titled "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens", which specifically prohibits affordability credits for anyone not lawfully present in the United States.

THAT's working real well...


haha...you people believe this shit? Really?
 
D L X
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:04 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 11):
He doesn't exactly have the option to get all ghetto on Wilson.

But he can have him court martialed!  Smile
 
OlegShv
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:09 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
haha...you people believe this shit? Really?

haha, what shit do you believe in?
 
sv7887
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:29 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
I don't care if it was a camera guy or a janitor who said, but a senator? When Bush proposed (well not proposed but actually LIED) to the senate about Saddam's WMD's, no one interrupted him and called him a LIAR. They all gave him the respect he deserves, whether they like him or not. I thought he was completely ignorant and I hope he resigns. Whether you think Obama is a liar or not, it's total not the right place for you to be shouting that out.

Oh really? Maybe you want to look at how the Dems booed George Bush in 2005 when he rightly pointed out the sad state of Social Security. And given the deficits that the system is currently generating he was right on the money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxmEGG71PM

So once again, Liberals display hypocrisy. So where is the liberal outrage for booing a US President?

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 11):
So per factcheck.org, Obama is being truthful.

You might want to check with the actual non partisan Congressional Research Service that reports to Congress:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-illegal-immigrants--55021087.html

""Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

CRS also notes that the bill has no provision for requiring those seeking coverage or services to provided proof of citizenship. So, absent some major amendments to the legislation and a credible, concrete enforcement effort in action, looks like the myth on this issue is the one being spread by Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et. al. "

Recognize isn't some non profit organization, it is an official body of the United States Congress.

All this nonsense about healthcare makes me laugh a little. People don't seem to want to look at Massachusetts, the basis upon which Obamacare was established. The cost of our program has more than tripled and placed this state in a serious budget deficit exceeding $1 Billion. Not to mention we have the highest healthcare premiums in the entire country.

Yep it won't add a dime to the deficit. More fiction from Obama no wonder his poll numbers are tanking.
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:02 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
People don't seem to want to look at Massachusetts, the basis upon which Obamacare was established.

And all this time I thought it was brought on because the state allows homosexuals to marry!

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
The cost of our program has more than tripled...

Please cite your source.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
...and placed this state in a serious budget deficit exceeding $1 Billion.

Because of our new health insurance program? Baloney! This state, like the majority of states, would be running a substantial deficit at a time like this. Cite your source.

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
Not to mention we have the highest healthcare premiums in the entire country.

Once again, please cite your source.


I live in Massachusetts. My health insurance rates have not risen. My income tax rates have not risen. Some new taxes have been added to certain types of purchases as is, no doubt, happening all over the country. I am proud of our health care plan in Massachusetts and I am glad to know that everyone - not just folks who work for large, blue chip companies - have access to health care. Even if it costs a bit more it's worth it.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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Cadet57
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:09 pm



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
I live in Massachusetts. My health insurance rates have not risen. My income tax rates have not risen.

As do I. Afaik our insurance rates haven't gone up (I'm still under my parents until I graduate) But I *did* pay more in taxes last year...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:22 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
""Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

So illegal aliens will be able to buy health insurance - so what? If they're paying for it on their own, who cares? It's only if the government sponsors it that it becomes a problem. Where does the bill do that?
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
sv7887
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:27 pm



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
The cost of our program has more than tripled...

Please cite your source.



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
The cost of our program has more than tripled...

Please cite your source.

We''ll start with the cuts in care:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/health/policy/01mass.html

Hikes in ER and treatment costs:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...visits_costs_in_mass_climb/?page=1

And yes, the rise in the cost of the program:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...sidized_care_plans_cost_to_double/

They say double, but I read another article that said it was getting worse. I'll try and find it. I read a watchdog report on the system and it cited the cost of subsidizing programs for the poor as the chief culprit.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
...and placed this state in a serious budget deficit exceeding $1 Billion.

Because of our new health insurance program? Baloney! This state, like the majority of states, would be running a substantial deficit at a time like this. Cite your source.

Have a look here:
http://www.massbudget.org/documentse...findDocument?doc_id=681&dse_id=922

1.7 Billion dollars on the Heathcare reform project. Not exactly trivial. That constitues 50% of our current deficit.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 16):
I live in Massachusetts. My health insurance rates have not risen. My income tax rates have not risen. Some new taxes have been added to certain types of purchases as is, no doubt, happening all over the country. I am proud of our health care plan in Massachusetts and I am glad to know that everyone - not just folks who work for large, blue chip companies - have access to health care. Even if it costs a bit more it's worth it.

I guess you missed the part about the Sales tax increasing to 6.25%?? The only exemption is Clothes and shoes costing less than $175. That's far more than the "certain types of purchases" you claim. And it's hurting Massachusetts Retailers since tax free New Hampshire is sitting right next to us. Not exactly job friendly.

There have been new taxes on satellite TV and the like as well.

I actually use Commonwealth Choice and my rates have risen every year. In fact since I just turned 27 my premium is set to DOUBLE because the Healthcare reform bill requires I have a much higher level of coverage since I'm past the 18-26 yrs old Young Adult range.

Am I in any worse health? No. The new Blue Choice Bronze plan is marginally better than what I have now (Blue Choice Young Adult) but it costs over $300 compared to the $180 I pay now.
 
D L X
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:54 pm



Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
So where is the liberal outrage for booing a US President?

Same place as the liberal outrage for booing Obama. What's that? You didn't hear anyone complaining about how the Republicans booed Obama last night? Maybe because booing is not that big a deal. Obama got booed, and no one cared. There's a big difference between booing and interrupting and screaming out that someone is a liar.

Quoting Slider (Reply 12):
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 7):
Except for Sec. 246 which is titled "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens", which specifically prohibits affordability credits for anyone not lawfully present in the United States.

THAT's working real well...

Considering it hasn't been enacted yet... whachutalkinbout, Willis?
Is this just an admission that you were wrong? It's okay to say it.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:00 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 20):
Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
So where is the liberal outrage for booing a US President?

Same place as the liberal outrage for booing Obama. What's that? You didn't hear anyone complaining about how the Republicans booed Obama last night? Maybe because booing is not that big a deal. Obama got booed, and no one cared. There's a big difference between booing and interrupting and screaming out that someone is a liar.

Looks like this has been going on for a long time, just no one has called the POTUS a liar before.

http://mediamatters.org/print/research/200502040014
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Tugger
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:25 pm

For me, I agree that Rep. Wilson is an:

Quoting Homer71 (Reply 3):
Idiot.

He is an elected official and is paid to discuss things like this in effective ways, not to make a buffoon of himself.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 2):
How is it "probably the case"?

The key way that the it is "probably the case" is the fact that any validation requirements were removed from the bill earlier. There was an attempt to add a verification process into being able to receive health benefits but it was defeated as being unacceptable to the Latino Caucus. SAVE (the program proposed) is already utilized on approximately 70 other programs.

Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) Program
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...ec0c7c8110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD

Lack of a verification process is effectively a loophole because without verification you can not ensure only those eligible are receiving the benefit and that those that are not eligible for the benefit somehow pay the system back for the services provided.

Quote:
That loophole arises because the bill fails to include eligibility verification screening that would effectively preclude coverage for illegal aliens. As FAIR has consistently pointed out, illegal aliens will be allowed to exploit this loophole in order to obtain taxpayer-funded health insurance benefits. From the American taxpayer's perspective, this is a distinction without a difference.

In essence, the bill creates nothing more than an "honors system" to prevent taxpayer-provided coverage for illegal aliens. The only thing that will prevent an illegal alien from receiving benefits under the House bill is to have the illegal alien decide to forego applying for those benefits. At the Ways & Means Committee markup of the House bill, Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) tried to include an eligibility verification process, using existing government databases, to screen applicants' eligibility for the public plan and the affordability credit. His amendment was defeated at the committee on a party-line vote.

http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/192...95&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1012

Quote:
Asked if CHC leaders will ask Pelosi to specifically spell something out in the bill to address illegal immigrants, the Member said no. Rather, the Member said the CHC simply wants to make sure the bill — as drafted — doesn’t prohibit illegal immigrants from accessing care.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/37180-1.html?type=printer_friendly

I am actually OK with illegal immigrants obtaining healthcare because I understand the need to prevent illness in the greater society and costly emergency room visits, but I think the USA should either charge the people or charge the nation from whence they came (somehow). My big question is: How does Europe and the nations with universal healthcare do it? I would simply suggest we do the same.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
D L X
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:34 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 22):
Lack of a verification process is effectively a loophole because without verification you can not ensure only those eligible are receiving the benefit and that those that are not eligible for the benefit somehow pay the system back for the services provided.

I think that's a reasonable argument with reasonable responses. How is an undocumented worker going to get benefits without an SSN?
 
slider
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:37 pm



Quoting OlegShv (Reply 14):

haha, what shit do you believe in?

I believe that health care is not a right. I think that for the estimated 30M people without it, that that’s not on the surface a problem since you’ve got people who voluntarily don’t have it or don’t want it. I think that for less than 10% of the US population it’s not worth scrapping the entire existing system. I think that there are tangible real steps to improve the costs involved in health care, reforming some insurance regulations, major tort reform and so forth.

But the shit I believe in is rooted in less regulation, more liberty, and less invasive omnipotent all-invasive government. Their “solutions” are nothing but a gateway to bigger problems, as history has shown.
 
D L X
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:45 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 24):
I believe that health care is not a right.

Utterly barbaric.

Quoting Slider (Reply 24):
But the shit I believe in is rooted in less regulation, more liberty, and less invasive omnipotent all-invasive government. Their “solutions” are nothing but a gateway to bigger problems, as history has shown.

There is almost nothing you can say about government that you can't also say about insurance companies.

Quoting Slider (Reply 24):
I think that for less than 10% of the US population it’s not worth scrapping the entire existing system

Sounds like you need a better information source. Either that, or you don't pay for or haven't thought closely about your insurance. There is no "scrapping" of entire systems involved, and the reforms are necessary to bring down the price of YOUR insurance.

Or maybe you haven't paid much attention to your insurance to understand just how much you pay for how little you'll get.
 
AGM100
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:54 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 22):
For me, I agree that Rep. Wilson is an:

So will you say the same for....

Ted Kennedy , Al Gore , Hillary Clinton , Harry Reid , Jack Murtha , John Kerry , Barney Frank , C Dodd , Feinstien , Boxer , Obama , Waters , ....all of them called a President a liar many of them multiple times. At first I was uncomfortable with Wilsons outburst ..but now I am happy he did it.

I just heard a interview with Wilson .... he has read the latest bill. Illegals are covered , he said the democrats specifically wanted the words changed and added it in there. I believe him. They want the votes ... and will gladly buy them with our tax dollars .
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D L X
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:00 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
Ted Kennedy , Al Gore , Hillary Clinton , Harry Reid , Jack Murtha , John Kerry , Barney Frank , C Dodd , Feinstien , Boxer , Obama , Waters , ....all of them called a President a liar many of them multiple times.

None of whom interrupted a presidential address to do it.

BIG difference, AGM.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
I believe him

Of course you do.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:03 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
but now I am happy he did it.

So, I guess you feel the same way about the shoe tosser now as well?
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AGM100
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:34 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 27):
BIG difference, AGM

There is a differnce I grant you that ... but democrats crying about it is pretty weak. Did you here Biden ?... OMG I thought he was going to lose his hair. I guess the truth hurts too , Pelosi came out today and said forget about lets move on ... Wilson is not backing down he has the latest bill in his hands and will be on TV tonight to show the amendment. We will see.
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Tugger
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:34 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 23):
I think that's a reasonable argument with reasonable responses. How is an undocumented worker going to get benefits without an SSN?

If you do not verify the validity of the SSN then it will be no better than current employer check systems. A simple system needs to be put in place that wil verify the person providing the SSN is the correct person. I don't think you can ever deny immediate emergent care but a check is needed for continued care.

My question still stands: How does Europe and other nations with universal healthcare address the issue?

Quoting Slider (Reply 24):
I believe that health care is not a right. I think that for the estimated 30M people without it, that that’s not on the surface a problem since you’ve got people who voluntarily don’t have it or don’t want it. I think that for less than 10% of the US population it’s not worth scrapping the entire existing system. I think that there are tangible real steps to improve the costs involved in health care, reforming some insurance regulations, major tort reform and so forth.

The failure in your thinking is that you can allow ten percent of your house to fail and it will have no effect as 90% of your house remains intact. But how safe, how comfortable, and how viable is your house investment if 10% is missing or damaged?

The 10% of the population is a huge carrier of diseases and is a drag on the economy and destroys lives as people who can not work must resort to other measures to live.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
So will you say the same for....

Ted Kennedy , Al Gore , Hillary Clinton , Harry Reid , Jack Murtha , John Kerry , Barney Frank , C Dodd , Feinstien , Boxer , Obama , Waters , ....all of them called a President a liar many of them multiple times.

Absolutely! Of course I would, but to my knowledge none of them interrupted a President delivering a speech.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 26):
At first I was uncomfortable with Wilsons outburst ..but now I am happy he did it.

Well I am uncomfortable with it. I do not want our Congress to devolve into the chaos that you see on Youtube of some of the Korean(?) sessions and I certainly don;t want to see it devolve into the crap we have seen in the healthcare debate where people are shouting down others. That is not debate, that is shouting. I do not disagree with question and debate sessions such as the British Parliament has where the members get to "get into it" with the PM. I do disagree with stupidity, bullying, and a lack of decorum at inappropriate times. .

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 28):
So, I guess you feel the same way about the shoe tosser now as well?

Rep. Wilson was essentially the same as the shoe tosser. I disagree with what the shoe tosser did as well, it was simply wrong and inappropriate and poorly represented his nation. The glaringly obvious difference though is that he was not elected to his post to represent his and carry his constituents concerns and needs to be addressed and included in the national discussion. Rep. Wilson is and knows (should) better (and he does as his prompt apology indicates).

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
Wilson is not backing down

He did back down, he apologized. And quickly. He knew his actions were wrong. Now he may have a point but he has achieved making it in the wrong way. I disagree that we are now giving him more attention as it will just lead others to do the same. He should be shunned for some period of time.

Tugg

[Edited 2009-09-10 14:37:15]
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Ken777
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:07 pm

Wilson backed down after being booed on national TV during the speech, after hearing respected members of Congress saying he was grossly improper and after seeing his opponent next year pull in $200,000 on one single night.

He's about as dumb as the politician in California bragging about his Bambi while the mike as on. That dude is gone and Wilson will be after next year's election.
 
AGM100
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:30 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
Congress saying he was grossly improper and after seeing his opponent next year pull in $200,000 on one single night.

Pelosi made a phone call to Soros ?? Man thats rich ... we will see who is standing in 2010.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
hearing respected members of Congress

Should not have taken long to hear that .... what with all those respected members .....  rotfl 
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Yellowstone
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:48 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 32):
Pelosi made a phone call to Soros ?? Man thats rich ... we will see who is standing in 2010.

No, it was raised through ActBlue, from 5600 individual donors - that's an average of $35 per donation.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Ken777
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:07 am

Wilson's opponent has puled in $400,000+ now - after starting with $16,000 in the bank before the speech. Wilson would help the party more if he resigned now and let the Republican Governor name a smarter pol to replace him. But then the Governor is the bright guy heading to South America for a bit of a shack up with his Bambi. What is it with SC politicians?  Smile
 
AGM100
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:37 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 33):
No, it was raised through ActBlue, from 5600 individual donors - that's an average of $35 per donation.

He is going to need it . Act Blue ,,,, what is it a Porn sight ... Kidding .

Here ya go Dem's send you money in ...

http://www.actblue.com/

Just send a few bucks over to Wounded Warrior too will ya ?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:41 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 15):
Oh really? Maybe you want to look at how the Dems booed George Bush in 2005 when he rightly pointed out the sad state of Social Security. And given the deficits that the system is currently generating he was right on the money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxmEGG71PM

So once again, Liberals display hypocrisy. So where is the liberal outrage for booing a US President?

I just love the hypocrisy of the GOP. Hanity had Wilson on and showed the 2005 State of the Union, but somehow forgot to mention how the GOP had booed and hissed when Clinton gave his SOTU.

So once again, Conservatives display hypocrisy. So where is the conservative outrage for booing a US President?

[Edited 2009-09-10 18:43:41]
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dvk
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:53 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 30):
He did back down, he apologized. And quickly.

But only because of intense pressure from the Republican leadership, as Wilson himself stated in the interview I saw this evening. His word choice, tone of voice, and body language indicated a complete lack of sincerity in his apology. You could paraphrase what he said as "I only apologized because I was told I had to (but I didn't really mean it)".
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
N104UA
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:44 am

GO ROB MILLER!!!!!!

He has raised over $640,000 in just 24 Hours it looks like Joe Wilson will not be a Congressman as of 03 Jan 2011
http://bit.ly/SBeTG
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
 
jcs17
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:28 am

Back to the topic...

Okay, what he did wasn't right. Not at all. He should have sat quietly like every GOP member while Obama was giving his speech. He should've been quiet and at the end of Obama's half-truth speech, he should've gathered some members of the press up and lambasted him.

Let's get real though, he's not going to lose his seat no matter how much money is given to his Democrat opponent. He holds a district from Myrtle Beach to Columbia (gerrymandering is ridiculous in my opinion, but whatever). Have a good time defeating those odds.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:30 am



Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 39):
Let's get real though, he's not going to lose his seat no matter how much money is given to his Democrat opponent. He holds a district from Myrtle Beach to Columbia (gerrymandering is ridiculous in my opinion, but whatever). Have a good time defeating those odds.

He only won 54/46 last time - it could be close!
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
centrair
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:42 am

Down with the Democratic system! Down with listening. Down with education. Down with the teachings of the founding fathers. Down with well researched debate. Down with intelligence. Down with respect. Down with conscience.

Up with hype. Up with control. Up with spouting off. Up with reading phrases instead of sentences. Up with only reading single sentences instead of paragraphs. Up with ignorance. Up with violence against those that disagree. Up with exaggeration to maintain power. Up with undermining the constitution and the ideas of the founding fathers.

First we had people saying Obama was going to Indoctrinate kids through a back to school speech. And when it was all over...nothing. So what does the right do? Say that he changed the speech. Evidence. Nothing. Not a single word, piece of paper, nothing. It is all just a way to keep control through fear.

This is stupid. The president was asking everyone to work together on a national problem. It will not get solved. Other countries will maintain healthy populations. With healthy populations their productivity will not falter.

When Democrats said that Bush lied about WMDs they were accused of being "unpatriotic". Joe Wilson called the president a liar to his face. No one called Joe Wilson "unpatriotic". They just said it was uncalled for in that arena.

So what is this? It is not okay to call a president a liar if it can be proven he is lying (NO WMD). But it is okay to call a president a liar if he is not lying? (No Illegals can get health insurance.)

The right of the republicans talk about revolution and taking up arms. Why don't they stop talking and get it on. Then we will see how America really works. Will that make education better? Will that help improve business? Will that find a cure for cancer and AIDs? Will that help provide health care for everyone no matter what happens in their life?
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
L-188
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:11 am

Getting back to the original topic

Wilson was just saying what anybody who isn't an Obama cool-aid drinker was thinking.

At some point you get fed such a line of bull that you have to let it out, he reached his end.

Hell we tell women to scream out as if they are being raped, why should the taxpayer be any different?

As far as this moronic idea of court matialing him because he is the reserve, ain't going to stick.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:29 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 42):
Wilson was just saying what anybody who isn't an Obama cool-aid drinker was thinking.

But what, exactly, was Representative Wilson thinking?

The Republicans were doing so well with the townhall meetings and derailing the healthcare debate with scare tactics. It seemed all they had to do is run out the clock, and their reactionary model of doing nothing would have prevailed.

Then there's Joe Wilson... one-time aide to Strom Thurmond, one of the most notorious racists to EVER serve in state & national office in the 20th century. I can picture what must have transpired in Wilson's mind....
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
L-188
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:40 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 43):
Then there's Joe Wilson... one-time aide to Strom Thurmond, one of the most notorious racists to EVER serve in state & national office in the 20th century.

So you know what Joe Wilson was thinking??? Or are you just playing 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
D L X
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:57 am



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
There is a differnce I grant you that

So you're admitting that your point was empty, right?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 29):
but democrats crying about it is pretty weak.

Dude, both sides are saying that Wilson was of the reservation. Wholly inappropriate unless you're in a freakin' banana republic, which we (usually) are not.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 30):
If you do not verify the validity of the SSN then it will be no better than current employer check systems.

I agree, but the thing is, verifying SSNs is ridiculously easy. The cries from the right in this case are really rather shallow. (in this case.)

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 31):
and after seeing his opponent next year pull in $200,000 on one single night.

Make that $400k and counting.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 44):
So you know what Joe Wilson was thinking???

Wait... you do?

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

 rotfl 

and thus ends my twice-yearly response to L-188.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:21 am

Thursday evening total at more than $500,000 with 14,000 individual donations.

From Thursday morning to Thursday evening donations went from $200k to $500k.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
AGM100
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:37 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 45):
Dude, both sides are saying that Wilson was of the reservation. Wholly inappropriate unless you're in a freakin' banana republic, which we (usually) are not.

I denounced it as the action.... but when I heard all the indignation from the leadership it just ammunsed me thats all. Harry Reid .... sounded like his bowels were let loose over it.

All in all upon some reflection I agree it was poorly timed ....
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seb146
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:44 pm

How long did Republicans have to change any and all of the immigration rules and they are now (thanks to Wilson) so upset about it? How many times have Dems been upset about things the Republican president does and not make comments about it? There is a certain amout of decorum expected when the president, ANY president, addresses joint sessions of Congress. But, it's okay that Wilson did it, because..... why? I didn't hear any actual apology. I heard something like "I was told I have to apologize, but I don't really want to." How is that showing respect to the president, anyway?
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slider
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RE: Rep. Joe Wilson Give Challenger A Lift

Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:14 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 25):
Utterly barbaric

In your opinion. I happen to follow the Constitution. Health care is not in the bill of rights. Self-sufficiency sure is though.

Quoting D L X (Reply 25):
There is almost nothing you can say about government that you can't also say about insurance companies.

I don’t deny that. I think insurance reform is part and large parcel of the reformation of health care costs. Don’t disagree at all. There’s enough to fix to go around, but throwing out the baby with the proverbial bathwater is not the way to do it, nor is ceding control over a large segment of the economy to a government that has proven its incompetence time and again.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 30):
The 10% of the population is a huge carrier of diseases and is a drag on the economy and destroys lives as people who can not work must resort to other measures to live.

So are illegal aliens and I see nothing the Feds are doing about that either. But it’s asinine to structurally change the rules of the game and the underlying economy of the health care industry for the sake of 10% of anything.

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