klm672
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I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:07 pm

Two weeks ago I got an offer for a new job. Much better than the old one in every way (commute, pay, hours etc). I gave my two-weeks notice and was scheduled to start tomorrow. Friday afternoon (3 days before I was scheduled to start) I got a call with some bad news. The new job was put on "staffing hold" and I was unable to start on Monday. They said they'd call me next week with more details and they are "looking into more/other options" but said they were very very sorry. Ah great! My last day is today and now I'm without a job. What should I do? Just wait it out? I started applying to other places just in case and a few people suggested telling my old job about the news but I feel that's pretty unprofessional "Hey, I can't work Monday after all, can I stick around here until I get the job for real?". I already have a replacement here too. What about unemployment in the meantime? Would I qualify or because I technically quit my old job (with intentions of moving into a new one) I wouldn't?

Suggestions?
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:08 pm

If at all possible find something else, whatever you do don't accept the new job, even if they come back to you. If they screw you about like this before you start, it can only get worse. Its totally unprofessional to offer someone a job in the full knowledge that they will be resigning from their present one, and then drop them in the crap.
 
klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:19 pm

Should I even bother telling my old job or leave it as is? I have already been replaced by a rehire so they do not need retraining etc.
 
babybus
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:21 pm

You might find talking to an employment lawyer useful. Was a possible wait part of your interview negotiations? I presume the new post was confirmed before you resigned your old one.

You are currently losing money and your new company should be paying for that, unless you resigned prematurely.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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ManuCH
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:24 pm

Wait, did you already sign a contract with the new employer? If yes, can't you "force" them to hire you, or at least pay you until you find something else?
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:25 pm

Hi, they asked if I can start Monday 8/21. I said yes and gave my two weeks. A week or so went by and then said "oh wait" on Friday around noon. I have no paper record of them offereing me the job BUT I do have the voicemail saying they are on hold and her said "Sorry you can't start on Monday" (if that wording matters). I may also have the voicemail saying that I have the job but I have to check--it was on my house phone and I was away at school for the week and my mom gave me the message.
 
klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:29 pm

Oh, is there any bias that the fact that my new job is a Gov't job. Temp at that.. kinda like the people I'd seek out for help would work for the Gov't as well? I know it shouldn't matter but life isnt fair.. thoughts?
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:32 pm

I would start looking straight away for something else. Obviously your almost-to-be employers are not reliable. I don't know what is happening in their company so it's difficult to judge the situation, but it can be 50/50: they can tell you to come in like they can tell you to forget about the job.

Since they are not able to confirm anything at the moment (and God knows when they do it), it would be safer to look for another job.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
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ManuCH
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:42 pm

If you don't have anything on paper that they're offering you the job, I don't know if there's anything you can do. In Switzerland a job contract is also valid in the verbal form (eg. if I tell you "You're hired starting September 21st and you'll get $1500/month"), but I don't know about the US. I guess you'll need a lawyer to chime in - or look for something else.
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andz
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:42 pm



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 5):
I have no paper record of them offereing me the job

Who in their right mind resigns from their job without a new job offer/contract on paper? Sorry but this is just irresponsible, even in a good job market.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
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cpd
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:08 pm



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 5):
I have no paper record of them offereing me the job BUT I do have the voicemail saying they are on hold and her said "Sorry you can't start on Monday" (if that wording matters). I may also have the voicemail saying that I have the job but I have to check--it was on my house phone and I was away at school for the week and my mom gave me the message.

You've learnt a really valuable lesson. Until you get a formal letter of offer, and have formally accepted the position, and they've formally agreed - you don't leave your old job.

I would be finding another job elsewhere, the new employer seems very unreliable if they do that. I also think you'll find it really difficult to make a case against your new employer either.

Quoting KLM672 (Reply 6):
Oh, is there any bias that the fact that my new job is a Gov't job. Temp at that.. kinda like the people I'd seek out for help would work for the Gov't as well? I know it shouldn't matter but life isnt fair.. thoughts?

No, there shouldn't be any bias in an ideal world, but things don't work like that. My guess is they just got a budget cut, and no longer have funds to pay for your position - or something like that.
 
klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:27 pm

How common is a letter in America? I have held a bunch of jobs and never was given a letter. I just asked my aunt and uncle and they both have never either. Its always been verbal (face to face or phone).

I spoke to HR on the phone and it went like this:
Hey, can you come in on Monday 8/21 at 9am for orentation? Me: "Sure" Her: "Ok great, expect to stay until 5pm, bring a lunch if you'd like. We'll do orentation and then some training. Your normal schedule would then be 6am-2:30pm" "Me: great thanks!" Her: "Congrats! Have a good day see you Monday 8/21."

[Edited 2009-09-20 07:32:20]
 
usflyer msp
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:32 pm



Quoting Andz (Reply 9):
Who in their right mind resigns from their job without a new job offer/contract on paper? Sorry but this is just irresponsible, even in a good job market.

Thats not how things work in the US. Very rarely does an employee get anything in writing before the first day of work at the new job.

I would start looking for something elese or go to a temp agency to tide me over until the new job starts.
 
babybus
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:37 pm



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 8):
If you don't have anything on paper that they're offering you the job, I don't know if there's anything you can do.

Contracts can be verbal or written. It's just easier to prove a written contract existed. In Europe we would never/rarely act on a verbal contract especially if income was a stake.

If they asked you to resign to take up the job then they should be compensating you for the wait.

I was in a position like you once but I admit I was too keen to dump my previous job.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:37 pm

Quoting MSP" class=quote target=_blank>USFlyer MSP (Reply 12):
Quoting Andz (Reply 9):
Who in their right mind resigns from their job without a new job offer/contract on paper? Sorry but this is just irresponsible, even in a good job market.

Thats not how things work in the US. Very rarely does an employee get anything in writing before the first day of work at the new job.

I would start looking for something elese or go to a temp agency to tide me over until the new job starts.



Quoting Cpd (Reply 10):
Quoting KLM672 (Reply 5):
I have no paper record of them offereing me the job BUT I do have the voicemail saying they are on hold and her said "Sorry you can't start on Monday" (if that wording matters). I may also have the voicemail saying that I have the job but I have to check--it was on my house phone and I was away at school for the week and my mom gave me the message.

You've learnt a really valuable lesson. Until you get a formal letter of offer, and have formally accepted the position, and they've formally agreed - you don't leave your old job.

I would be finding another job elsewhere, the new employer seems very unreliable if they do that. I also think you'll find it really difficult to make a case against your new employer either.

Thanks, guess things are different here in America. Thanks for clearing that up MSP.



I am thinking about telling my old employer but they already have a replacement so whats the sense. I just don't want to go back and fourth "sure I can work XX day..." Two days later "Wait no I can't I am starting at the new job for real"

[Edited 2009-09-20 07:41:48]
 
GQfluffy
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:12 pm



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 12):

Thats not how things work in the US. Very rarely does an employee get anything in writing before the first day of work at the new job.

Not necessarily true. At the previous employer...they offered me the job on the phone, and explicitly said the letter of offer was in the mail. Keep in mind this was a small corporation in terms of what else is out there (several thousand employees). Not sure this helps the OP much, but getting a job offer on paper is fairly common.
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klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:24 pm

Being young, maybe its the wrong type of jobs, just causal ones where there are no letters. Gotten a few after interviews with the "sorry not interested" subject. I've worked for two airlines (as a CSA and F/A) and didn't receive any letter of hire.
 
WestWing
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:35 pm

The OP says his new job is a "Govt." job though he does not mention whether it is at federal, state or local level.

I think it is very odd indeed that a government job did not provide him with an offer of employment on paper.

My advice to the OP is to visit the new office in question in person on Monday and see if you can get answers on whether the staffing hold issue is expected to be resolved within a few days or whether there is no chance of a resolution. While you are there, also make sure you ask them (the HR people of the new job) about your eligibility for state unemployment benefits in your circumstances. Normally, unemployment benefits are provided only in case of involuntary loss of employment.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:42 pm

Good idea, WestWing. The HR lady said she'd call sometime this week with info but I can just go visit or visit them in person.
 
Mir
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:43 pm



Quoting WestWing (Reply 17):
Normally, unemployment benefits are provided only in case of involuntary loss of employment.

Which his situation could well qualify as.

-Mir
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andz
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:46 pm

I appreciate that things are not the same world wide but I would not consider leaving one job without something in writing from another employer. It may not be common but surely the entire job market in the US doesn't hinge on word of mouth.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
sunshine79
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 4:54 pm



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 1):
If at all possible find something else, whatever you do don't accept the new job, even if they come back to you. If they screw you about like this before you start, it can only get worse. Its totally unprofessional to offer someone a job in the full knowledge that they will be resigning from their present one, and then drop them in the crap.

The same thing happened to me. In January, I was supposed to go to TFS to work but wanted the stay in the UK (what the hell was I thinking?) So I had an interview for an energy company to work in their call centre. Anyway, I find out on the day I was supposed to go to TFS that I was successful and got the job however, the job was now starting in March and not the following Monday. So on that, I buy myself a little car to run around in, and sort myself out with a flat to rent, furnish it etc. Three days after I sign the flat contract, the agency ring me to advise me that they are holding recruitment and will not be taking anyone else on in the near future. I was not a happy bunny after that. So I had to take any job that came along.

Since March, I am just about to start my 4th job, all temporary with agencies and the assignments have suddenly finished so I'm then straight back onto signing onto Employment Benefit the next day. If I knew this was going to happen (or if the agency hadn't landed me in it in February) I would be still be in a job I love, not in the UK, and enjoying Greek life (I will be next year though)

My advise is do not go to the company who dropped you in it, go to another company. If they are messing you around like this now, what will they be like once you start.
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DocLightning
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:10 pm



Quoting Cpd (Reply 10):

You've learnt a really valuable lesson. Until you get a formal letter of offer, and have formally accepted the position, and they've formally agreed - you don't leave your old job.

 thumbsup 

You don't need a signed contract, but a letter of offer is sufficient. You need something in writing or it's... nothing.

I just switched jobs, myself and I handed my resignation in the day I signed and returned the letter of offer.

Of course, I've had to put the new job on hold thanks to my recent injury, but they have been very understanding about it, which is encouraging, since I would expect any job to be accommodating of "I broke myself and need surgery and to stay in bed for 6 weeks."
-Doc Lightning-

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WestWing
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:17 pm

Given that the new employer is a government entity, I would hope that would be much easier for the OP to get documentary proof in writing that an offer was made by the new entity and then he was informed just one business day before he was supposed to join them that hiring was frozen.

I agree with Mir that the OP's situation does indeed appear to be involuntary loss of employment. But the HR people at the new job ought to know the intricacies of this better than we do.

Several posters above have suggested that the OP should now not join the new entity under any circumstances because (to paraphrase them) the new entity "jerked him around" and therefore, they (the new entity) are untrustworthy.

To the OP, I think you need to find out exactly what happened before making a decision in this regard. What you have experienced, though undoubtedly anxiety and anger promoting, is not that unusual in the USA. Fecal matter happens (albeit ungrammatically).

One small suggestion. When you visit the HR dept of the new entity, make sure you dress for success. A jacket and tie if you have them. Look as professional as you can when you walk into their office.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
IADCA
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
You don't need a signed contract, but a letter of offer is sufficient. You need something in writing or it's... nothing.

No, no, no. I don't know of many states that have a Statute of Frauds for employment contracts, at least not short ones, and the OP mentioned this was a temp one. The issue here is probably not a legal one, but rather an evidentiary one.

Quoting Andz (Reply 20):
I appreciate that things are not the same world wide but I would not consider leaving one job without something in writing from another employer. It may not be common but surely the entire job market in the US doesn't hinge on word of mouth.

It doesn't. Generally, the higher-paying, more "professional"-sounding a job is, the more likely it will have a written contract. Larger companies are also more likely to have written contracts, as they'll generally have counsel that advises them to do so. Part of the reason for this is to avoid the exact situation we have here.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 8):
I guess you'll need a lawyer to chime in - or look for something else.

It's not a bad idea to consult a lawyer here, but not a great one either. Really, this all depends on Vermont law (assuming the accuracy of the OP's profile). I don't know jack about Vermont employment or contract law, but under basic contract law, once you can prove offer and acceptance, you're usually pretty good. I'm not going to teach an Evidence course about why that's very hard here. On top of that, the prospective damages here probably aren't worth what a lawyer on an hourly fee basis would charge, nor is one likely to take it on contingency. This is just one of the failings of the American legal system.

Edited to fix small but important typo.

[Edited 2009-09-20 12:56:59]
 
babybus
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:21 am



Quoting IADCA (Reply 24):
Larger companies are also more likely to have written contracts, as they'll generally have counsel that advises them to do so.

All companies want you to sign a contract. They will want you to know what your responsibilities will be in post.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
IADCA
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:27 am



Quoting Babybus (Reply 25):
All companies want you to sign a contract. They will want you to know what your responsibilities will be in post.

I'm talking in the US, where my legal education and most of my work experience is. I haven't the slightest clue about over here, as I just don't have enough experience with it yet.
 
lincoln
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:00 pm



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 11):
How common is a letter in America? I have held a bunch of jobs and never was given a letter. I just asked my aunt and uncle and they both have never either. Its always been verbal (face to face or phone).

Of the three jobs I've had I got a written offer only for my most recent one -- and only because I asked for one so I could have something to read on the flight home.

It may be worth having a chat with a lawyer (I am not one); while the "government job" thing complicates matters you may have a case for detremental reliance/promissory estopel; e.g. you relied on the fact that they promised you employment beginning on day X; you relying on that promise was reasonable and forseeable, and the reliance was determental on your part in that you resigned your previous employment and are now without income as a reult of their failure to honor their offer.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 17):
I think it is very odd indeed that a government job did not provide him with an offer of employment on paper.

I've worked for both a local government agency and a state government agency and neither extended a formal/written offer of employment. In fact, neither had me even fill out a paper application until -after- I had been (verbally) offered a job. The state position, FWIW, was far more laid back than the local one-- no background check/FBI records check/etc.
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IADCA
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:42 pm



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 27):
It may be worth having a chat with a lawyer (I am not one);

Right, so be very careful with statements like:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 27):
you may have a case for detremental reliance/promissory estopel

This is especially true in this situation, where you'd essentially need the same piece of evidence to prove PE as you would to prove an actual contract. Thus, there's really not much reason to pursue an estoppel theory here.

There are reasons there are rules against giving legal advice without a license to practice law.

In summary, OP, if you want to pursue this claim, please consult a lawyer in your state. Don't listen to advice on internet forums, as it's at best the knowledge of people with knowledge of general employment and contract law, and at worst pure blather.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:22 am



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 18):
Good idea, WestWing. The HR lady said she'd call sometime this week with info but I can just go visit or visit them in person.

HAH. You might as well be waiting for hell to freeze over if you're waiting on a government employee to call you back. If you're dealing with the government, you have to be proactive. Going directly to the office is probably your best bet in getting the answer you need.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
sv7887
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:50 am



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 12):
Thats not how things work in the US. Very rarely does an employee get anything in writing before the first day of work at the new job.

Every job I've had here has been accompanied by a letter stating the terms. In some cases, an employment contract was required too.

Even a letter doesn't necessarily guarantee anything, they can bug out at the last minute. As others have said, you have to establish proof of contract.

In any event that really stinks and I'm sorry to hear that. I've been close to a few jobs only to hear the same "hiring freeze" nonsense. In my time in the job market I've gotten to have a deep dislike of HR and how companies behave these days.
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:24 am

The thread starter is in a very sticky situation here. I'm hoping those bridges weren't torched down..........

Quoting Andz (Reply 9):

Who in their right mind resigns from their job without a new job offer/contract on paper? Sorry but this is just irresponsible, even in a good job market.



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 11):
How common is a letter in America? I have held a bunch of jobs and never was given a letter. I just asked my aunt and uncle and they both have never either. Its always been verbal (face to face or phone).

College-level salaried positions in the US, in most cases, will offer a formal letter stating the position duties and the salary. These letters are not legally binding in the U.S., and the employer can rescind at any time. Only an employment contract is legally binding, which the thread starter never signed such document.
 
klm672
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:59 pm

Hey,

Thanks for all the replies. I did not hear from this place in over a week and I called the lady. She was surprised to hear from me and said that she's been trying to call me but my phone was always off. Thats BS my phone is always on. Even if its off, it would still take a message. Anywho, she said that she was told there is no longer a demand and thus the job is no longer there.

Thanks again everyone. Just came back from another job interview, we'll see what happens. If I get an offer this time, I'll ask for it in paper  Wink
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:35 pm



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 32):
Just came back from another job interview

Very good! I hope you'll get the job!
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
GQfluffy
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RE: I Just Got A New Job! But..now They Say "wait"

Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:07 pm



Quoting KLM672 (Reply 32):
Anywho, she said that she was told there is no longer a demand and thus the job is no longer there.

In that case I would've told her (since it was supposedly a government job) that you were in contact with OPM and you want further explanation on why they screwed you over.
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