QXatFAT
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Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:01 am

In Tuesday's Fresno Bee, a very interesting article was in the paper about a proposed solar "farm" in the Fresno County and San Benito County areas. Solargen has proposed the biggest solar farm in the world (second would be in Spain at 65 megawatts)! The portion in Fresno County would cover 2,600 acres and produce up to 250 megawatts of electricty (or around 125,000 to 200,000 homes) and the portion in San Benito County would cover just around 10,000 acres of land and produce up to 1,000 megawatts or 1.0 gigawatts of power (around 500,000 to 800,000 homes)!

PG&E has already been in talks with Solargen to purchase the "green" elecrity from them and power central and northern California with it. The location in San Benito County is the touchy location because of the wild life there. Read the article and you will see the issues and solutions proposed for this. The location though is a good spot because PG&E already runs lines through the area going to a grid. PG&E would be building a substation out in near the location if these plans go through.

Solargen says it would also be able to provide Fresno with at least 150 jobs before the panels are even in use because they would bring a plant to Fresno to manufacture these panels as it would be cheaper than purchasing all the panels needed.

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1645817.html

Other production of energy in the area to compare to... (Source Fresno Bee & California Energy Commission)

Friant Dam (water): 25 megawatts (12,500 - 20,000 homes)
Pine Flat Dam (water): 165 megawatts (82,500 - 132,000 homes)
Big Creek (water): 1,000 megawatts (500,000 - 800,000 homes)
Morro Bay Power Plant (gas): 650 meggawatts (325,000 - 520,000 homes)
Moss Landing (gas): 2.5 gigawatts (1.25 million - 2.0 million homes)
Diablo Canyon (nuclear): 2.2 gigawatts (1.1 million - 1.76 million homes)
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:07 am

Neat idea but a nuclear power plant would provide MUCH more power, take up far less space and is a green technology.
We should follow the model used in France.
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:09 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
We should follow the model used in France.

When it comes to recycling of waste, definitely. That said, we need to stop relying on mined fuel generally. Parabolic mirrors are one way of doing that.
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:30 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
Parabolic mirrors are one way of doing that.

Is the technology there to support our existing infrastructure?
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:50 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):

Is the technology there to support our existing infrastructure?

If you build it, they will come. No matter what kind of power plant you build, you have to hook it up to something.
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:07 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
No matter what kind of power plant you build, you have to hook it up to something.

True.
My point was is that solar power doesn't provide that much power.
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:12 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):

My point was is that solar power doesn't provide that much power.

It doesn't take up useful space either. The middle of the desert is much less of a burden than next to a body of water for cooling. Also, it does produce plenty of power when you consider integration of other methods.
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:25 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
It doesn't take up useful space either.

Nuclear power plants takes up even less space.
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:31 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

Nuclear power plants takes up even less space.

Not less useful space. Nuclear power plants need to be near a water source. Parabolic mirrors (and wind turbines for that matter) do not.
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:40 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Nuclear power plants need to be near a water source.

Well unfortunately the GM/Toyota NUMMI plant in Fremont will be closing. Why not put one there?
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:42 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):

Well unfortunately the GM/Toyota NUMMI plant in Fremont will be closing. Why not put one there?

Because it is in the middle of a major metro area.
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:52 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Because it is in the middle of a major metro area.

Hasn't developers gone all the way to the boundaries of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station?
It's that only thing separating Los Angeles and San Diego metro area.
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:07 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):

Hasn't developers gone all the way to the boundaries of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station?
It's that only thing separating Los Angeles and San Diego metro area.

Well, there is Camp Pendleton. Also, The Boobs are surrounded by a state park that provides extra buffer. Alas, no more nude beach there.
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:11 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Alas, no more nude beach there.

Damn!
There is one further south near San Diego.
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QXatFAT
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:41 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Neat idea but a nuclear power plant would provide MUCH more power

For sure! Look at the numbers I gave compared to other "green" sources of energy. Although it would produce a lot of energy, a county in California would need to really want it for the job because I would think most would not want anything nuclear near their homes. Maybe northern California?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
It doesn't take up useful space either.

That is correct. You can put these in the middle of the desert and no one will be complaining because you took their prime spot to build their dream home.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Because it is in the middle of a major metro area.

I know its not a major metro area but Diablo Canyon is in Avila Beach near Pismo Beach and San Luis Obispo which are pretty good size areas.

Besides that point, what a beutiful place to work eh? Right on the ocean!
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Alias1024
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:56 pm

I'm curious what the water bill will be to keep the mirrors clean. That sounds like a pretty big job cleaning 4.7 million solar panels.
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DocLightning
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:13 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):

When it comes to recycling of waste, definitely. That said, we need to stop relying on mined fuel generally. Parabolic mirrors are one way of doing that.

Well, the nice thing about nuclear is that you don't need very much fuel to get a bunch of energy out. It's a good stopgap supply of energy while we wait for something truly renewable, like fusion, to come along,.
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mt99
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:18 pm

People love announcing stuff.

Quoting QXatFAT (Thread starter):
portion in San Benito County would cover just around 10,000 acres of land and produce up to 1,000 megawatts

And with what transmission lines? Please.

All of this announcements are really useless unless right next to it there is an announcement of new High-Voltage transmission lines to deliver the power.
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flanker
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Now we just have to wait for the environmentalist wackos to start screaming that some lizard might be in danger or a cactus might be killed because of 10,000 acres of panels and other things associated with that. How many people want to bet it wont happen because this is "renewable" energy?

God forbid we put nuclear plants in place that provide proper energy.
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Alias1024
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:30 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 17):
And with what transmission lines? Please.

The ones that are already in place above both sites, according to the article. What extra capacity they have is not mentioned, but transmission lines already exist.
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:33 pm

Is there potential for geothermal power plants there? Have a solar and wind base augmented by geothermal (which is stable and constant). That would be ideal IMO.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:40 pm



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 20):
Is there potential for geothermal power plants there? Have a solar and wind base augmented by geothermal (which is stable and constant). That would be ideal IMO.

I don't think CA is very good for geothermal.

BTW, totally OT: did you know that geothermal power is nuclear power? Those high-and-mighty "nuclear-free" Kiwis down in New Zealand are all using nuclear power! Yup.

See, one of the reasons the Earth's core is still molten and hasn't solidified some 4 billion years after its formation is from the decay of radioactive isotopes. Geothermal power uses this energy.

So all of New Zealand is a mass hypocrisy.  duck   Wink
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mt99
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:13 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 19):

The ones that are already in place above both sites, according to the article. What extra capacity they have is not mentioned, but transmission lines already exist.

uh huh.. and they are in talks with PG&E.. the company that contracted "solar energy with panels in space.."

"California's biggest energy utility announced a deal Monday to purchase 200 megawatts of electricity from a startup company that plans to beam the power down to Earth from outer space, beginning in 2016."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30198977/
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Alias1024
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:54 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 22):
uh huh.. and they are in talks with PG&E.. the company that contracted "solar energy with panels in space.."

They are also the company that provides electricity for millions of homes and businesses in California, including my apartment. They have a very large coverage area in the state as PG&E is the dominant electric utility in central and northern California. If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state, PG&E is the first call you make.
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mt99
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:00 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state

Or to move said electricity from other planets...

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state, PG&E is the first call you make.

Yes and No.... ill leave it at that.. Smile
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Alias1024
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:51 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 24):
Or to move said electricity from other planets...

You're just jealous that I'm going to be getting fancy, extra special space electricity and you're not.  Wink

Actually, I think the solar energy satellite idea is pretty sweet as long as it doesn't fry airplanes or birds that accidentally get between the satellite and receiving station.
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NoUFO
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:33 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Neat idea but a nuclear power plant would provide MUCH more power

Hence help companies providing electric power to form syndicates, which of course is not good.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
and is a green technology

Since when?
Hopefully, you don't think it's emission-free - after all that stuff emits radioactivity for how many years?
Nuclear power produces 1/10 of CO2 compared to natural gas fired plants and twice as much as wind power (nuclear reprocessing excluded!). But what's with nuclear reprocessing (reprocessing is an euphemism btw, as only some lousy percent can actually be reused) and storage of nuclear waste?
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:50 pm



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 26):
Hopefully, you don't think it's emission-free - after all that stuff emits radioactivity for how many years?
Nuclear power produces 1/10 of CO2 compared to natural gas fired plants and twice as much as wind power (nuclear reprocessing excluded!). But what's with nuclear reprocessing (reprocessing is an euphemism btw, as only some lousy percent can actually be reused) and storage of nuclear waste?

It's a hell of a lot cleaner than coal burning plants. We have tons of coal burning plants here in the US. As far as nuclear waste, we'll do what the French do.
They don't seem to have a problem with it.
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NoUFO
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:23 am

Huh? The French have no clue what to do with their nuclear waste. To my knowledge they simply stock it (accessible - good for plenty of dirty bombs) instead of burying it.

[Edited 2009-09-25 17:24:49]
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QXatFAT
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:01 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 17):
All of this announcements are really useless unless right next to it there is an announcement of new High-Voltage transmission lines to deliver the power.



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 19):
The ones that are already in place above both sites, according to the article. What extra capacity they have is not mentioned, but transmission lines already exist.

If you read the article Mt99, then you would not have wrote your comment. PG&E is ready to do all that is necessary to make the transition even smoother with building a new substation out there where lines already exhist. If lines need to be upgraded, then it is a whole lot easyer considering poles are aready up and a layout is there.

Quoting Flanker (Reply 18):
lizard might be in danger

They are already mentioning that and that is why the company wants to build on only a portion of the area and raise up the pannels so sheep can still graze on the land and lizzards and rats can continue to do what they do.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 24):
Or to move said electricity from other planets...

You know, you have listed you are an electrical engineer but you seem not to be to smart in the area. With my dad being a senior for 30+ years with PG&E, I think he knows what he is talking about when he is giving me details on how it can work with the company HE works for.
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Superfly
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:58 am



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 28):
Huh? The French have no clue what to do with their nuclear waste. To my knowledge they simply stock it (accessible - good for plenty of dirty bombs) instead of burying it.

Then I guess sticking to coal is the answer then.
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mt99
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:59 am



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 29):
I think he knows what he is talking about when he is giving me details on how it can work with the company HE works for.

I dont want to get into a whole thing here with you but:

I am coming from my experience in the power markets. I deal with PGE - and with 15 or 20 other utilities in the country and in Europe every day helping them to integrate large scale renewable energy in the grid. It is just not that simple.

So as i am sure that your father is a very smart man, know that I also know the subject  Smile

And look

http://www.caiso.com/14e9/14e9ddda1ebf0.pdf

I dont see a large scale PV in Fresno County listed in California ISO's queue (at least the "find" function of Safari didnt), so make me even doubt the project even more.

It did however, find a 2 x 250 MW PV project in Kern County..
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QXatFAT
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:43 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 31):
So as i am sure that your father is a very smart man, know that I also know the subject

He is a very smart man. As I am sure you are as well, but you seem so confident that this can not happen. Things do not already have to be in place for something to happen. There does not need to be lets say a runway in the middle of no where for someone to say "lets build an airport there!" They simply say we want to build an airport to service such and such metro area so we are going to build the runways, terminals, excetra.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 31):
And look

Thank you for the chart. It gave good information. As you probably saw in the chart, there are many PV's that PG&E are looking at puting in use in the Tulare, Fresno, San Luis Obispo, Kern, and Mendota areas. Some seem to be going in on 2010 and are still in active stage to hopefully start transitions new. These are locations that PG&E are planning on having built for them to run and operate. These would be facilaties that PG&E could say they "own". The other contender that has the bulk of them is SCE (So Cal Edison).

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 31):
I dont see a large scale PV in Fresno County listed in California ISO's queue (at least the "find" function of Safari didnt), so make me even doubt the project even more.

It looks like they were doing one from Medota-Fresno with a 70k line.

Also, this is a project not ran by PG&E. Because Solargen is putting in this power and is planning on running it themselves, they would build their own PV and sell the energy to PG&E. This is something all on their side. This PV would be different then the ones listed on your chart that would be owned by PG&E. Does that make any sense?
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:13 am



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 14):
I know its not a major metro area but Diablo Canyon is in Avila Beach near Pismo Beach and San Luis Obispo which are pretty good size areas.

It is sort of like San Onofre. They might be on beach front real estate, but they have decent sized buffers. Still, I wouldn't want to be in SLO if things went wrong there.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):

Well, the nice thing about nuclear is that you don't need very much fuel to get a bunch of energy out. It's a good stopgap supply of energy while we wait for something truly renewable, like fusion, to come along,.

Yes, as are other renewable options like wind and solar.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state, PG&E is the first call you make.

Well, in Northern California. Here in Southern California, you talk to Edison, SDG&E or DWP.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 26):
But what's with nuclear reprocessing (reprocessing is an euphemism btw, as only some lousy percent can actually be reused) and storage of nuclear waste?

The French have developed techniques to reprocess rather efficiently, so the waste is significantly less.
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DocLightning
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:41 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):

Yes, as are other renewable options like wind and solar.

You can have a nuclear plant that takes up five acres and makes 2 gigawatts. Or you can have a 3,000 acre sun field that does 200 megawatts. That's not going to be cheap to build. But will it be 10% cheaper to build than a nuclear plant? Possibly...
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N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:07 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):

You can have a nuclear plant that takes up five acres and makes 2 gigawatts. Or you can have a 3,000 acre sun field that does 200 megawatts. That's not going to be cheap to build. But will it be 10% cheaper to build than a nuclear plant? Possibly...

This field will be more like 11,000 acres and do 1.2 gigawatts. If you read the story, the panels would go up over about 1000 acres of the entire 2600 acre Fresno County portion. Also, if you have the space, which they do, why not use it productively? Further, it sounds like they have a ready connection to the grid.
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NoUFO
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:29 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
The French have developed techniques to reprocess rather efficiently, so the waste is significantly less.

Even if they managed to double the outcome: A couple of percent times two = A couple of percent more.
La Hague is not Sellafield, the French dump less radioactive waste, and officially it's banned, but even if the do not discharge waste anymore (which is doubtful): As always, irradiated fuel is first dissolved into nitric acid. Later you need to get rid of said acid as well. Thus, nuclear reprocessing always produces more waste then there was before.
How this can be a "green technology" is totally beyond me.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
Then I guess sticking to coal is the answer then.

Try saving energy and renewable energies. Sure, you'd still need a conventional or nuclear power plant to buffer the ups and downs (night/day - windy/calm) until we find a solution to commercially use nuclear fission or something even more visionary.
The proposed solar farm is a step in the right direction, as is Desertec, its European equivalent.
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mt99
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:18 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 32):
It looks like they were doing one from Medota-Fresno with a 70k line.

a 70 kV would not have the capacity to move such power.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 32):
This PV would be different then the ones listed on your chart that would be owned by PG&E.

No its not. Federal Regulations mandate that all generation project in PG&E territory (in this case) should be on the list. If it not on that list - it does not exist.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 32):
Things do not already have to be in place for something to happen.

Absolutely, the thing is that the economics of PV are juts Horrible (with capital H). At least at this point in time. The expectation is that the price will go down eventually, but with gas prices being at historic lows, investors would be hard pressed to justify PV project that has a MWh cost that can be 3 or 4 times that of a Natural Gas plant.

So assuming you don't mind paying more for your electricity (or increased taxes to subsidize), a huge solar plant is technically possible - but at least right now it wouldn't make much economical sense.

Solar Energy is NOT free. The sunshine is, but the PV modules, the controls, the maintenance, the long term loss in efficiency are not.

A company i worked with directly, found a better business case installing a solar plant in another country (which will remain namesless - but with much much much less solar resource), than in California - at the cost of its tax payers.
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Alias1024
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:35 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 23):
If you need someone to buy and move your electricity in this state, PG&E is the first call you make.

Well, in Northern California. Here in Southern California, you talk to Edison, SDG&E or DWP

That's why I specifically said PG&E is dominant in Northern and Central California in the sentence before the one you quoted.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 37):
No its not. Federal Regulations mandate that all generation project in PG&E territory (in this case) should be on the list. If it not on that list - it does not exist.

That list is almost three months old. Perhaps an updated one would show the project.
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mt99
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:03 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 38):
That list is almost three months old. Perhaps an updated one would show the project.

Nope. CAISO only accept new generation application a certain number of times a year. The current window ended on June 30th. A new window will open soon. This project might come in the next application deadline. But as of right now, that project does not exist.

And even if you were to apply today, the way CAISO and the RTOs work, it will be a looooong and drawn out process.
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AustrianZRH
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:14 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 37):
Absolutely, the thing is that the economics of PV are juts Horrible (with capital H). At least at this point in time. The expectation is that the price will go down eventually, but with gas prices being at historic lows, investors would be hard pressed to justify PV project that has a MWh cost that can be 3 or 4 times that of a Natural Gas plant.

So assuming you don't mind paying more for your electricity (or increased taxes to subsidize), a huge solar plant is technically possible - but at least right now it wouldn't make much economical sense.

Solar Energy is NOT free. The sunshine is, but the PV modules, the controls, the maintenance, the long term loss in efficiency are not.

It all depends on the developments of the prices for fossile fuels. Right now, thin film modules using CdTe or Cu(In,Ga)Se2 absorbers have production prices of EUR 0.79 to 0.90 per Watt-peak installed power. Right now, fed by the extraorbitant subsidies in many countries, they are sold at a price of 3 to 4 EUR per watt, which is way above the fair market value. Companies like Q.cells and First Solar earn a golden nose on those subsidies. Let's assume that in 2 years the production cost is at EUR 0.75/Wp (pretty reasonable due the cost today and taking in account the better economies when scaling up a plant and efficiency coming improvements), and is sold at a profit of 200%, making the sale price EUR 2.25/Wp or EUR 2250/kWp. All the balance of system equipment adds, say, 5% to 10% to the price, leading us to a system price of about EUR 2500/kWp. The energy yield depends strongly on the geographical location. Taking a rather foggy, mid-latitude climate like Bregenz, Austria, gives you, assuming 10% system losses, an output of 1004 kWh/kWp/a or, when using a sun-tracking system (increasing cost of course), 1269 kWh/kWp/a. Based on a 25 year lifetime and a performance decrease to 85% of nominal power after 25 years, linearly, yields total energy generated by the module of 23373 kWh/kWp.

Now we can calculate the power cost per kWh:

2500 EUR/kWp / 23373 kWh/kWp = 0,11 EUR/kWh, + maintenance 10% = 0,12 EUR/kWh

If we now use a more solar-friendly climate instead, like Granada, Spain, the yearly production goes up to 1557 or 2159 kWh/kWp, respectively. The price is thus only

0,08 EUR/kWh.

So, as this data shows, within the near future, PV power CAN be cost competitive, if the subsidies start to decrease and lead to the retail prices of solar modules nearer to their fair market value.
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:40 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 38):
That's why I specifically said PG&E is dominant in Northern and Central California in the sentence before the one you quoted.

Saying "this state" as opposed to "this part of the state" changed the meaning.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 36):
How this can be a "green technology" is totally beyond me.

It isn't green. It is greener. Mostly a bridge to better options.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
QXatFAT
Topic Author
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:42 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 37):
a 70 kV would not have the capacity to move such power.

Well not the power from the PV that would be built by Solargen. Of course not! That 70kV line in your chart was to something else that PG&E already had in the works. Not designated for the Solargen project.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 37):
it does not exist.

Of course not haha! This is all a proposed job. If you thought that the PV would be located on that list then that is bogus. This is not something set in stone at all yet. There is no reason why the PV would be listed on the chart given. I think (again my opinion on your thoughts) that you are assuming that this has been moving forward a lot farther then it has. This has all been projections and propositions on paper and in board rooms. Nothing has been applied for yet at all. Therefore, you could not see this out on a CAISO until possibly 12 months from June if it does go forward?

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 38):
That list is almost three months old. Perhaps an updated one would show the project.

Mt99 is correct on the timing of relase for the charts. But you would not see this project in many many months if not 2 years because the project is not set in stone yet at all nor even close to coming in.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 37):
Solar Energy is NOT free

100% correct. In fact, for Solargen to even build the things going out there, PG&E would still charge them to be energized to build the things out there. They would owe PG&E a good junk before they were even able to sell the energy to PG&E.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
QXatFAT
Topic Author
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:45 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
It isn't green. It is greener. Mostly a bridge to better options.

How many pounds of waste is produced on average do you think from this type of energy? I agree that it is greener energy then burning coal but I wonder how long it would take until you had to ship way off the waste from a plant. I would asume over 100 years until it becomes a problem for local storage?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:58 pm



Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 43):

Well, that is what this whole Yucca Mountain thing is about, right? Too bad we don't have Superman to send it up to the sun.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:59 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
It doesn't take up useful space either.

No but they take up vast amounts of space.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Neat idea but a nuclear power plant would provide MUCH more power, take up far less space and is a green technology.

Solar panel construction is not very green, and they are also not that easy to dispose of when their useful life has finished. But, they do produce carbon free power. You made the point too that they don't produce that much power which is very true. Wind is better than solar, solar is better than geothermal, but nuclear is the best by far.

A GW would be one of if not the largest solar plant, but the average nuclear plant in the US produces 1.1 GW of electrical output on far less space.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
N1120A
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:04 pm



Quoting Canoecarrier (Reply 45):

No but they take up vast amounts of space.

But the point is, it doesn't matter. This isn't space we use.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
vapar8
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:02 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):

I think N1120A needs to do some research and get back to us on the location of the LARGEST nuclear power plant in the US.
 
Alias1024
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:51 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 41):
Saying "this state" as opposed to "this part of the state" changed the meaning.

 banghead 
All you had to do was read the sentence before to understand the meaning.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Huge! Solar Farm Proposed In Central Valley

Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:54 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
But the point is, it doesn't matter. This isn't space we use.

May not be space we use, but that's not what drives the reviews of these facilities. One endangered species that uses that habitat and the project may not work. Just like any project in remote areas.
The beatings will continue until morale improves

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