tsaord
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Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:29 am

I never would have thought the Chinese people were racist. But according to the article it suggest otherwise. Not all of the people of course but enough to make people talk who are called "netizens". As much as people complain about America the fact is racism is passed down generation to generation and encompasses the world. Racism will never go away. It will just go under ground. The following is from the Times:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090925/wl_time/08599192558900

Quote:
In many ways, Lou Jing is a typical young Shanghainese woman. Pretty and confident, she speaks Mandarin heavily accented with the lilting tones of the Shanghai dialect and browses the malls of this huge city for the latest fashions.
But there is one thing that distinguishes this 20-year-old from her peers, something that has made her the unwitting focus of an intense public debate about what exactly it means to be Chinese: the color of her skin. Born to a Chinese mother and an African-American father whom she has never met, the theater student rocketed into the public consciousness last month when she took part in an American Idol-esque TV show, "Go! Oriental Angel." (See pictures of modern Shanghai.)
The marketing gurus for the series could hardly have dreamed of a better promotional gimmick when they started to investigate the backgrounds of the dozens of pop star wannabes to root out the competitors' mushy stories of triumph over adversity that are a well-worn staple of the genre. Here was a tale guaranteed to attract eyeballs - a girl of mixed race brought up by a single Chinese mother struggling to gain acceptance in a deeply conservative, some would say rascist, society.

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Mir
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:58 am



Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
I never would have thought the Chinese people were racist.

Believe it or not, the US is pretty much at the head of the pack when it comes to getting rid of racism. It's still around in other parts of the world, and to a larger degree than it is here. Even Europe's got it more than they should for a collection of 1st world countries.

-Mir
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Elite
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:03 am

Not to be off topic, but there is a lot of racism amongst some more traditional Chinese people... especially towards Muslims or African-Americans. I don't think the problem exists with other races, but the 2 that I mentioned are almost universally hated in China. At least that is what I think.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:09 am



Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
I never would have thought the Chinese people were racist.

It is not so much racism as "us vs them". Many languages across the world use to have the same word for stranger/outsider and enemy.

Most societies on this planet do not extend trust outside the family unit, and then only to those like the core family. Physically, culturally and economically, It is especially noticeable in nations without significant international interaction. Despite everything in the past 25-30 years, China is still a nation where very few people ever meet someone from outside their nation, racial and cultural group.

China has a long history of being conquered and ruled by foreigners. That contributes to the distrust of anyone who is different, including physical features which indicate the person is not of pure Chinese blood.

Several of the people in the company which I used to work for spent time in Shanghai - the head of a very important company division. Many of the Chinese raised in the US, especially those with a Caucasian, Native American or Black parent or grandparent - have reported they were never accepted locally. In fact those of mixed Chinese and other blood found themselves treated with less trust than pure Caucasian or Black heritage.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:03 am

Now China is a huge country and it has lots of different people that we in the west all tend to call Chinese because they look similar. Ignorance is a bliss. But never mind that.

If we talk about the overseas Chinese in Se Asia and the different people living in southern china (Cantonese, Hakka, Hokkien, Foo Chow) etc rascism is part of tradition.
A "chinese" girl doesn't marry anyone with darker skin than themselves - and thats the end of that story.
For her to contemplate someone else that man has to be loaded or she has to be very, very poor. A white man might be acceptable, the parents will probably prefer a Chinese man and often say how much easier it would be because a Chinese man will understand the traditions etc but a westerner is still acceptable. If you see how many of the educated (university degrees) Chinese ladies and overseas Chinese ladies that marries westerners thats fairly obvious.
However an Indian, an African or a person that's muslim is out of the question for most people from this part of the world. Thats my experience from living and working within these communities.
For a Malaysian Chinese lady to marry a Malay for instance ooh, that would not be a happy family to say the least. She would be a lucky lady if she gets to keep any contact with her family at all.

The US is actually very good at producing a "we" feeling for their country. In Europe it takes generations often for immigrants to be accepted while in the US children "fresh of the boat" goes to school and sings the US national anthem and quickly feels American. I guess it has to do with the age of the country and the immigration history. very used to accepting people from lots of different ethnic backgrounds.
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tsaord
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:31 am

Thanks for the different perspectives. That is why I love working at an airport. I see many different people all the time I wouldn't normally see in my community.

I didn't even know stories like the one I found even existed in a place like China. But I learned something new. I hope this young lady and also a young 19 year old Ding Hui, who has an African Father and Chinese mother can continue to find their way in China. I'm a black American born and raised. I hope they stand up and consider themselves born and raised Chinese people!
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afterburner
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:02 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 2):
especially towards Muslims



Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 4):
or a person that's muslim is out of the question

In Indonesia there is a Muslim preacher who is from Chinese descent. He used to be a famous criminal and a gang leader before converting to Islam. His family members have forgiven him for being a criminal but not for being a Muslim.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:26 am



Quoting Afterburner (Reply 6):
have forgiven him for being a criminal but not for being a Muslim

Perhaps this example of a CHOICE to believe in something not going down well with the rest of the family is an example how the word "racism" is overused. I mean the logic: How can family be "racist" towards one of its own members?
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:39 am



Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
I never would have thought the Chinese people were racist. But according to the article it suggest otherwise. Not all of the people of course but enough to make people talk who are called "netizens". As much as people complain about America the fact is racism is passed down generation to generation and encompasses the world. Racism will never go away. It will just go under ground. The following is from the Times:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009092...58900

This is interesting to me, and it has to be seen in the context of race in East Asia, not the western conception of race. In some parts of Asia there is a very distinct "you are different from I" because of the conditioning and history to reject foreigners as "the same". This is obviously based on appearance, on a basic level. There is also the "pale is better" mentality usually related to domestic ethnicities, there is not necessarily a distinct extension of this belief to foreigners as much as the home ethnicity. It is not so much racism as it is race bias, which is different. Of course such does not matter to anyone if they are personally offended in any situation.

I remember the first time I visited Japan, I had a few interesting experiences as a foreigner who spoke a few words of Japanese. One was just people staring, but this never bothers me; I just thought it as interesting. I asked my local Japanese connection if many were not used to seeing darker skinned people. He said no, there are the military bases, which I had completely forgotten. I like to have people guess my race, because I'm mixed too, usually they say some combination of white/black/Asian/Hispanic. It's funny. Many were outright shocked when I opened my mouth with Japanese though. And the fact that I used chopsticks perfectly dumbfounded a few Japanese too.

You can't ever assume people use their intelligence over their own biological history and experience in life. But a lot of people actually are open to learning something and being corrected, even if they form immediate judgments that are false.
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TreeHillRavens
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:50 pm

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 4):
However an Indian, an African or a person that's muslim is out of the question for most people from this part of the world. Thats my experience from living and working within these communities.

For a Malaysian Chinese lady to marry a Malay for instance ooh, that would not be a happy family to say the least. She would be a lucky lady if she gets to keep any contact with her family at all.

That's because when a non-Muslim Chinese or Indian in Malaysia want to marry a Malay lady/guy, he or she must convert into Islam which is why the family won't be too fond about it. They prefer them to stay as a Buddhists/Christians, whatever their original religions are.

You won't see the family objecting the relationship of a Buddhist Chinese with a Christian Chinese as this does not require religion conversion. This is also the reason why it is totally alright for a lady/guy of Chinese descent to marry any Westerners (assume you're a Christian).

[Edited 2009-09-26 10:55:10]
 
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LTU932
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:12 pm



Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 9):
That's because when a non-Muslim Chinese or Indian in Malaysia want to marry a Malay lady/guy, he or she must convert into Islam which is why the family won't be too fond about it. They prefer them to stay as a Buddhists/Christians, whatever their original religions are.

I thought the Chinese (government) have problems with Christians as well. Didn't the communist regime even persecute Christians back in the day?
 
rfields5421
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:06 pm

There is a big difference between the Chinese government and the Chinese people.

The communist government, like all communist governments, sought to 'free' people from the belief in God(s) and religion. Of course none were successful.

More of the communist government efforts was not so much focused on Christianity per se - but against the outside influences. Most Christians in China have ties back to the missionaries back in the 30's. The communist first closed China and tried to stop all outside communications.

Even today, the government is not happy with religions, of any faith, which have strong ties outside the nation.

In reference to my first post - this could be well be part of the view point that Christianity is a symptom of outsiders looking down on the Chinese and trying to change them to no longer be Chinese.

The "us vs them" world view.
 
TheCol
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:15 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):

For the most part, Christians still have to stay "underground" in China.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
Flighty
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:51 pm

China is still a country that has race as a component of their state identity. So of course, the girl is not "Chinese" in terms of their eternal ideas of themselves, which were in full bloom at a time when Europeans were living in caves. We Americans have a very "modern" view of race because we are a nation of immigrants who totally overran the aboriginal people who lived in America and subdued them. Of course we would rather declare that ethnicity is an obsolete concept. It allows us to justify our past and congratulte ourselves on our current state of affairs. Chinese history and social structure is totally different so, even if they are as enlightened as we are, who is to say they would reach the same conclusions as we have on race.
 
TreeHillRavens
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RE: Can Mixed Race Girl Be Chinese Idol?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:47 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
I thought the Chinese (government) have problems with Christians as well. Didn't the communist regime even persecute Christians back in the day?

The communist government also doesn't like Buddhism and Taoism. The two longest surviving religions in Greater China. I think at one point mainland Chinese were told to believe in only "Chairman Mao"  crazy 

Overseas Chinese do not have much in common with mainland Chinese. Overseas Chinese are totally fine with Christianity. Overseas Chinese also do not have any problems with mixed race Chinese (such as one of the parents is Chinese and the other a Caucasian).

Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
China is still a country that has race as a component of their state identity. So of course, the girl is not "Chinese" in terms of their eternal ideas of themselves, which were in full bloom at a time when Europeans were living in caves. We Americans have a very "modern" view of race because we are a nation of immigrants who totally overran the aboriginal people who lived in America and subdued them. Of course we would rather declare that ethnicity is an obsolete concept. It allows us to justify our past and congratulte ourselves on our current state of affairs. Chinese history and social structure is totally different so, even if they are as enlightened as we are, who is to say they would reach the same conclusions as we have on race.

True. But over here in Malaysia, interracial marriage is a norm and people here are totally open about it as long as it doesn't involving religion conversion. This is why there are still many Chinese marrying people from the minority ethnic groups in the East Malaysia. Those minorities are mostly Christians.

Back in the 17th, 18th and early 19th century, there are many Chinese guys married with locally born Muslim Malay girls. Their kids are known as "Baba" and "Nyonya". It wasn't a problem back then as those Chinese guys didn't have to convert into Islam. The first language of such families are Malay but their cultures are mostly from the Chinese side. Most people from such families are now calling themselves simply as Chinese nowadays. Their race is also stated as Chinese at the National Registration Department.

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