dxing
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Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:24 pm

Abandoning common sense as well as seeing a bad bill for what it is Sen. Snow became the lone GOP member to vote for the Senate Finance health care bill. According to the story,
she was laying aside misgivings for now and voting to advance the bill, a sweeping $829-billon, 10-year health care remake that would help most Americans get coverage without creating a new government insurance plan. "When history calls, history calls," said Snowe.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091013/...p_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

If you have misgivings why would you vote for the bill Senator? Would you vote to convict a person of a crime and send them to prison if you had "misgivings"????
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JakeOrion
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:29 pm

I really really hope this thing doesn't get past the Senate in its current state.

As for Snow, let's say she won't be getting re-elected any time soon.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
seb146
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:16 pm

I liked this quote from Snowe:

As Snowe made clear, "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

But, with no public option in this bill, I thought you righties would be praising it!. Oh, wait. It goes against the general GOP consensus, doesn't it. We can't have anyone step out of line, can we? No dissinting opinion within the party. How dare she form her own opinion!

As for:

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
let's say she won't be getting re-elected any time soon.

That's up to the people of Maine.
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Ken777
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:31 pm

Senator Snowe's vote today maintains a reasonable channel of communication between Republicans and Democrats on this issue. Her willingness to consider voting for the Committee's final result was the primary reason why she was included in the discussions, and was able to impact it to somme degree.

The other Republicans on the Committee were part of the "let's make it Obama's Waterloo" group. Just how far does anyone believe their comments would go with the Democrats?

As for the bill itself - it's one of several moving to final voting. Because the conservatives failed to take care of the medical cost crisis in this country it's now in the hands of Democrats. This is what the people in this country voted for so there should be no surprise that it's coming.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:54 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
As Snowe made clear, "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

Yes, but by her vote, it now has 'bi-partisan support'.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
I thought you righties would be praising it!

Let me tell you in a nut shell what us 'righties' want:

-Tort reform: it has to happen before anything else.
-Insurance reform: we have to change the way we use medical insurance. It needs to be like any other form of insurance. Used for catostrophic coverage.
-Insurance portability and competition: Insurance companies need to be able to peddle their wares across state lines.

There's a couple of other things, but those are the biggies.

With those 3 things, medical costs will go down and insurance will become more affordable to more people. We can address those who truly can't pay for it then.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
This is what the people in this country voted for so there should be no surprise that it's coming.

The people did not vote to put a massive segment of the economy under government control with or without debate. We need something, but not what is being peddled by this gang of misfits.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
We can't have anyone step out of line, can we?

Ask Liebermann if any Democrat is allowed to step out of line.

A mere 385 (447, depending on how you look at it) days until half this nightmare is over.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:10 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
I really really hope this thing doesn't get past the Senate in its current state.

It won't. The floor of the Senate will add massive amendments to it. The House versions are different, so I see a conference committee coming up. Pelosi will make her priorities known then, and the Senate will not go along with it. It is doubtful the House will, either.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
As Snowe made clear, "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

Sort of like John Kerry when he said "I voted for the war before I voted against it", isn't it?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
We can't have anyone step out of line, can we? No dissinting opinion within the party. How dare she form her own opinion!

Are we talking about the democrats?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
But, with no public option in this bill, I thought you righties would be praising it!. Oh, wait. It goes against the general GOP consensus, doesn't it.

Then you thought wrong.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
let's say she won't be getting re-elected any time soon.

That's up to the people of Maine.

Yes, it will.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
Senator Snowe's vote today maintains a reasonable channel of communication between Republicans and Democrats on this issue.

????? Where did you get that from?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
As for the bill itself - it's one of several moving to final voting. Because the conservatives failed to take care of the medical cost crisis in this country it's now in the hands of Democrats.

Then why didn't the Dems "take care of it between 1950 and 1992? Or the 4 of the last 8 years they controled one house or the other? Why now?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
This is what the people in this country voted for so there should be no surprise that it's coming.

No, this is not what the country voted for. We voted (or didn't vote at all) to get rid of the idiots on OUR side.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
As Snowe made clear, "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

Yes, but by her vote, it now has 'bi-partisan support'.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Let me tell you in a nut shell what us 'righties' want:

-Tort reform: it has to happen before anything else.
-Insurance reform: we have to change the way we use medical insurance. It needs to be like any other form of insurance. Used for catostrophic coverage.
-Insurance portability and competition: Insurance companies need to be able to peddle their wares across state lines.

There's a couple of other things, but those are the biggies.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
A mere 385 (447, depending on how you look at it) days until half this nightmare is over.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
 
dxing
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:34 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
But, with no public option in this bill, I thought you righties would be praising it!.

It does not meet any of the criteria that even the President said was necessary for him to support it. Why would conservatives vote for it? I go back to her statement that "even though she has misgivings" about the bill she voted for it. Why in the world would you vote to advance a bill that you did not feel was right? What is the point of that?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
Her willingness to consider voting for the Committee's final result was the primary reason why she was included in the discussions, and was able to impact it to somme degree.

How was she able to impact it? Name a single GOP admendment that was adopted and not shot down along party lines? All this proves is that she can be bought. The President called on her several times looking to see what he could do to get her vote. Expect that some big time pork will pass without any democratic opposition going towards Maine.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
The other Republicans on the Committee were part of the "let's make it Obama's Waterloo" group. Just how far does anyone believe their comments would go with the Democrats?

The other GOP members were part of the group that saw this bill for what it is. A financial joke that will not accomplish any of the Presidents stated aims. 29 million will remain uninsured, taxes will go up on the middle class, taxes begin immediately while benefits will not kick in for several years. Finally, in the end there may be rationing.

Scrap these bills and start over. Reform the existing system.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
Because the conservatives failed to take care of the medical cost crisis in this country it's now in the hands of Democrats

Explain what Democrats were doing in 1993 then? They were claiming the same sort of crisis as today and didn't even bring a bill up for comittee vote then.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
This is what the people in this country voted for so there should be no surprise that it's coming.

And of course that is supported by all sorts of poll numbers right?
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:05 pm



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
As for Snow, let's say she won't be getting re-elected any time soon.

She will be up for re-election in 2012

Just some info to consider:

This is just to vote it out of committee, the process now moves forward to combining the Senate Finance Bill with the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP Committee) bill

She might not vote for the final version in the Senate or when it comes out of the conference committee with the House.

It will be interesting to see if a Public Option comes out in the final bill as the trigger, which she proposed. It would trigger a Public Option in the case that costs do not decline like it is predicted.

BTW, it is Snowe, not Snow
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Ken777
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:11 pm



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Let me tell you in a nut shell what us 'righties' want:

-Tort reform: it has to happen before anything else.

Sure hasn't help provide noticeable cuts in Texas where tort reform has been in place for years. Why don't we see cost reductions in Texas? Could be a great demonstration of how tort reform could cut costs throughout the country.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
-Insurance reform: we have to change the way we use medical insurance. It needs to be like any other form of insurance. Used for catostrophic coverage.

Which means cut all preventative care costs from the insurance P&Ls? No more annual mammograms for women in the at risk age groups? Reduce check-ups for guys in the age group for prostate cancer?

Maybe we can reduce the overall costs of care through increasing the level of preventative care in this country.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Insurance portability and competition: Insurance companies need to be able to peddle their wares across state lines.

How many states would Aetna be denied access today?

Are you suggesting that we switch to the state with the lowest standards related to health insurance? Glad I have Medicare if that's the case.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Where did you get that from?

From reading. Great thing about the internet is that you can read news from all over the world. Democrats actually paid attention to Senator Snowe. Same thing does not apply to a lot of Republicans on the Hill.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Why now?

Because the Democrats NOW have the White House, Senate and House of Representatives. Republicans voted out last November. Remember?

Quoting DXing (Reply 6):
Scrap these bills and start over. Reform the existing system.

Basic health insurance industry/conservative pap that essentially means "don't screw with our profit/bonus ride", otherwise known as "screw the patient, this is about profits, not health care".
 
dxing
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:13 pm



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 7):
Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
As for Snow, let's say she won't be getting re-elected any time soon.

She will be up for re-election in 2012

Not my quote.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 7):
This is just to vote it out of committee,

But it allows for the democratic party to try and claim cover by saying it was "bipartisan" even though only one GOP vote was cast in its favor. A solid front would not have left them with that.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 7):
She might not vote for the final version in the Senate or when it comes out of the conference committee with the House.

Shouldn't make any difference. The democrats will have 60 votes to pass whatever they wish but fortunately for all of us they can't get their own party members to come to complete agreement.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 7):
BTW, it is Snowe, not Snow

Yes but thanks to the title length limit a letter had to go and the 'e' was the least impacting.
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NIKV69
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:18 pm

Now matter what CNN or MSNBC says the bill has no chance with the public option unless they give each state the option to opt out. That is going to be the dealbreaker. All these lawmakers who are going on MSNBC and saying anyone who voted against is against reform and all this other diversionary crap are trying to hide the fact that there isn't enough Dems that will vote yes with a public option like they want. It will come down to that and if Pelosi doesn't budge this may geet ugly.
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Superfly
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:19 pm



Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
As for Snow, let's say she won't be getting re-elected any time soon.

Yes & no.
She isn't up for re-election until 2012 so no, she wont get re-elected "any time soon" but she will get re-elected in 2012.  Smile

Olympia Snowe has an approval rating over 70%, among the highest of any US Senator.
Obama won the state of Maine by a very large margin and most voters in Maine support the President and Senator Snowe.
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dxing
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:13 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Basic health insurance industry/conservative pap that essentially means "don't screw with our profit/bonus ride", otherwise known as "screw the patient, this is about profits, not health care".

By all accounts this bill will raise premiums so if your idea of health care reform is lower costs, this bill does not do that.
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Mir
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:06 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Ask Liebermann if any Democrat is allowed to step out of line.

Seeing as he's kept his committee chairmanship, his answer would most likely be "yes".

-Mir
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MarSciGuy
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:19 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 1):
As for Snow, let's say she won't be getting re-elected any time soon.

Yes & no.
She isn't up for re-election until 2012 so no, she wont get re-elected "any time soon" but she will get re-elected in 2012. Smile

Olympia Snowe has an approval rating over 70%, among the highest of any US Senator.
Obama won the state of Maine by a very large margin and most voters in Maine support the President and Senator Snowe.

I can't see Snowe being voted out anytime soon (including 2012) -she has served the State well and with the above-mentioned approval rating, will continue to.
"There weren't a ton of gnats there where a ton of gnats and their families as well!"
 
fr8mech
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:16 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Which means cut all preventative care costs from the insurance P&Ls? No more annual mammograms for women in the at risk age groups? Reduce check-ups for guys in the age group for prostate cancer?

Maybe we can reduce the overall costs of care through increasing the level of preventative care in this country.

The devil is in the details. Policies would reflect reduced costs for preventative care and certain screenings. Let's throw in some health savings plans so that people can save for the medical eventuality. Hell, we have Christmas clubs, how about saving for medical costs? But if you have a damned cold, you'll have to pony up the cost.

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
Seeing as he's kept his committee chairmanship, his answer would most likely be "yes".

He was primaried and had to win as an independent. The people spoke, not the party. If the party hacks had their way, some other drone would hold the seat.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
Ken777
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:46 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 12):
By all accounts this bill will raise premiums so if your idea of health care reform is lower costs, this bill does not do that.

If you want to see premiums go down, or at least hold their present levels then step one is to ensure treatments are paid for. Even for the poor. Even for the people of this country with pre-eisting conditions.

Otherwise you will have tests, procedures, various other treatments and hospital stays jacked up in price to pay for those who can't. Guess what? Those jacked up prices are paid for by insurance companies and their increased costs are passed on to you - or to your employer. Or, of course, both.

Lack of universal care is going to mean your costs go up. Probably more than your wages or salary. Unless, of course, you work for a health insurance company.  Smile

Oh, when I was traveling to Australia on business & my health insurance here was starting to increase the private health insurance policy I had for Australia was 20% of the US insurance cost. That's an 80% DROP in that socialized medicine country, private care, dental included, no deductible.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 15):
The devil is in the details.

It is. Maybe the conservatives in the US can learn from the Liberals in Australia.

Especially since the Aussie Liberals are on the right and the Labour Party is on the left. Aussie Liberals (conservatives) seem to be able to handle both private health insurance and public care very successfully. Maybe the Aussies are just very clever. They did manage to take the American's Cup away from the NY Yacht Club , you know, with the most innovative design in about 132 years . . .
 
rfields5421
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:47 am



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
If you have misgivings why would you vote for the bill Senator?

Almost every time any member of Congress votes for a bill, and many times they vote against a bill they have misgivings, concerns. The way Congress lumps stuff together - almost any sane person can find provisions they do not like.

Quoting DXing (Reply 6):
Why in the world would you vote to advance a bill that you did not feel was right? What is the point of that?

Because our Congress will never pass a perfect bill. Will never pass a law which is 'right'.

Most of the time what we get is 'close enough'. That is probably the Senator's view. This bill still has issues, but are the issues minor enough that the overall good outweighs the bad?

Take for example the thread of Senator Al's amendment. Will the Republicans vote against the Defense Appropriation Bill, vote against weapons for our troops, vote against the defense industry contracts - to keep the KBR amendment from becoming law?
 
san747
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:05 am



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 17):


Take for example the thread of Senator Al's amendment. Will the Republicans vote against the Defense Appropriation Bill, vote against weapons for our troops, vote against the defense industry contracts - to keep the KBR amendment from becoming law?

Most did. That bill passed 68-30 in the Senate, and with 40 Republicans in that chamber, 75% DID do exactly what you just described.
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dxing
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:13 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
If you want to see premiums go down, or at least hold their present levels then step one is to ensure treatments are paid for. Even for the poor. Even for the people of this country with pre-eisting conditions.

No matter how you slice it this bill does not decrease costs or even hold them at their present levels. Medicare is facing cuts and taxes will go up on virutally everyone.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
Lack of universal care is going to mean your costs go up.

Universal care means my costs go up. There is simply no way, short of nationalizing everyone and everything in the health care industry in this nation, and then paying the health care workers less and charging the citizens more while sending thousands to the unemployment line to make costs hold their own.

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 17):
Because our Congress will never pass a perfect bill.

This bill was not an omnibus bill in which I would agree with your statement. This was a narrowly defined bill regarding health care. She came out and said she had misgivings about it. If so then she should have voted against it until her concerns were addressed.
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Mir
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:32 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 15):
He was primaried and had to win as an independent. The people spoke, not the party. If the party hacks had their way, some other drone would hold the seat.

Indeed he was primaried. By the voters. The voters decided they didn't want him on the Democratic ticket. Simple as that.

-Mir
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Okie
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:45 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Universal care means my costs go up. There is simply no way, short of nationalizing everyone and everything in the health care industry in this nation, and then paying the health care workers less and charging the citizens more while sending thousands to the unemployment line to make costs hold their own.

That is why small business and large corporations are dead quiet about Obamacare.
They are gearing up and quietly saying "bring it on"
The unintended consequences will be borne by the employee and the unemployed.

Okie
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:50 am

Let us watch the procedure, this is the way it works, that is what majority and minority mean, one party is on top and the other is not. I have never heard a complaint from anyone while their party was in power. When the worm turns, deal with it. How can we complain, Republican or Democrat? After all we have sent these folks back again and again, we love them, we trust them. I do think Senator Snowe displayed the courage of her convictions, that something has to change. I applaud her for it.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:05 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
No matter how you slice it this bill does not decrease costs or even hold them at their present levels.

First you need to understand that this is not the final bill. It is one committee out of several from the Senate & House that will continue to shape the eventual legislation.

The questions now is the degree of involvement that moderates work with those who will drive the legislation and who still be working to keep the insurance companies happy. I don't think anyone is looking to conservatives for guidance.

Quoting DXing (Reply 19):
Universal care means my costs go up.

I won't restate my comments on how much cheaper PRIVATE MEDICAL INSURANCE was in Australia. You're too convinced that the more your employer pays for private health insurance the better off you are. Nothing is going to change your mind until your employer hang up on the insurance company cash cow.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:16 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):

-Insurance reform: we have to change the way we use medical insurance. It needs to be like any other form of insurance. Used for catostrophic coverage.

Who pays for preventative care, then?

Human bodies aren't like cars or homes. So human insurance shouldn't be like car or house insurance.
-Doc Lightning-

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fr8mech
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:54 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
Who pays for preventative care, then?

How about....the patient? Or, as I say a little later: the devil is in the details. Policies can be written to provide preventative care and screenings at reduced rates. Participate in an HSA and save for the medical eventuality.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
Ken777
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:19 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 25):
How about....the patient?

As long as they can afford it. What about the ones who can't?

And what about those contagious medical conditions? The Nanny State picked up the tab for distributing the polio vaccine when it came out in the 50's. The Nanny State also picked up the tab to dispense medications to those exposed to a polio patient. When had a girl in our 5th grade class get polio (a couple of years before Salk) and the health department gave my mother two bottles to take to my doctor for the injection. Still remember that one - 16.2 cc's.

And our Nanny State has been pretty good going after Small Pox and TB.

Since you seem so against the Nanny State what money do you want cut from state and federal budgets that is being spent on Nanny State stuff?

The devil is in the details. You've benefited from other's tax dollars being directed towards health care, as have your children. (I assume you and they have had a polio vaccination.) So now the work begins to bring 5 bills together in a logical reform. With any luck "reform" this time will be focused on improve the lot of the middle class and those who aspire to me middle class - and not to improve the lot of the insurance companies yet again.
 
seb146
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:48 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
-Insurance reform: we have to change the way we use medical insurance. It needs to be like any other form of insurance. Used for catostrophic coverage.

So, the poor and working people still would not be able to see a doctor. They would only be able to work until they are so sick they can not move. By then, it is probably too late. Great ieda.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Insurance portability and competition: Insurance companies need to be able to peddle their wares across state lines.

Insurance companies are able to sell in any state. That has already been addressed. I think what really needs to be addressed is insurance that can be used anywhere in the country, not just with certain doctors in certain hospitals in certain states.

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 2):
As Snowe made clear, "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

Yes, but by her vote, it now has 'bi-partisan support'.

I thought you "bi-partisan" right-wingers would applaud her. That is what you all have been screaming about; that the Dems are not "bi-partisan" enough. Oh, but wait... you guys want the Dems to be bi-partisan, not your own troop.


Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 4):
Ask Liebermann if any Democrat is allowed to step out of line.

Happens more then you would care to admit. From both sides. Remember righties were not that thrilled with McCain being nominated for president. One reason some on the right didn't support him was he nearly left the Republican party.
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dxing
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:16 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 23):
First you need to understand that this is not the final bill. It is one committee out of several from the Senate & House that will continue to shape the eventual legislation.

Yes, now the Senate so called Leader Harry Reid will coalace all the bills (some which have been amended after they left committee without another vote!!!) into one which means that he and a select few other Senators will truly decide what the final bill presented to the floor of the Senate for debate looks like. So your Senators are most likely on the sidelines for now.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 23):
I won't restate my comments on how much cheaper PRIVATE MEDICAL INSURANCE was in Australia.

And I will restate that this is not Australia and that there are numerous ways to reform the existing system to cut costs and open up markets to those whom are unable to obtain access now.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
Human bodies aren't like cars or homes. So human insurance shouldn't be like car or house insurance.

Unfortunately human bodies, like cars and homes, carry varying amounts of risk. So in that regard, which is what all insurance based on, human bodies should be treated the same. If I practice a healthy lifestyle why should I pay more than someone who dives, rock climbs, smokes, or drinks to excess?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 26):
As long as they can afford it. What about the ones who can't?

For the ones that can't government safety nets are already in place and would cover many of the so-called "uninsured" in this country.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 26):
And what about those contagious medical conditions?

All those were one time events. Public healthcare will be an ongoing, ever expanding, ever more expensive social program. Huge difference. Polio, TB, and small pox vaccinations now can be obtained at your county health office...for a nominal fee, not for free unless you can show that you have no way to afford it. Which is what public health care ought to be reserved for, those who simply cannot pay.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:59 am

As others have said, the bill now has to be combined with bills from other committees, and the public option will be put back in. The final bill will be far more expensive, especially after the first 10 years.

BTW, is it a surprise that the media has ignored Robert Reich’s comments that prove Rep. Alan Grayson was right about many looking at health care reform as simply “die quickly”… he was just wrong about the source of that ‘tude… as it was coming from his own party czars/appointees/Obama cronies.

Quote:
"We're going to have to, if you're very old, we're not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It's too expensive...so we're going to let you die."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT7Y0TOBuG4&feature=player_embedded
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Continental
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:37 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
If I practice a healthy lifestyle why should I pay more than someone who dives, rock climbs, smokes, or drinks to excess?

What about other scenarios like cancers? A colonoscopy, PSA test, pap smear and mammograms don't cost $0. There are many diseases that can benefit from early detection and preventive medicine. Not every disease is related to rash decisions made by an individual.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:46 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
So in that regard, which is what all insurance based on, human bodies should be treated the same. If I practice a healthy lifestyle why should I pay more than someone who dives, rock climbs, smokes, or drinks to excess?

Because that is how all types of insurance work - health, life, car, home, etc.

Those with the lowest risks end up paying more for their coverage than they receive in benefits, and those with higher risks end up getting more benefits.

Add to that the "just unlucky" individuals with low risks who have high claims.

Insurance is like a casino.

No matter what level you go in and gamble at (pay premiums) the house is guaranteed to make their percentage and a certain percentage of the income goes back out the door with the participants.

The key to success of the casino or the insurance company is setting the percentage of the return. And being lucky enough to avoid the big lucky winner too often.
 
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:06 pm



Quoting Continental (Reply 30):
What about other scenarios like cancers? A colonoscopy, PSA test, pap smear and mammograms don't cost $0. There are many diseases that can benefit from early detection and preventive medicine. Not every disease is related to rash decisions made by an individual.

The CBO has said preventitive medicine, in which everyone gets the above tests, will cost more in the long run since you are testing people that have virtually no chance of contracting the disease. Rather than test, test, test, far more emphasis should be placed on finding out who is most likely to benefit from those tests and reserve it for them.

As to rash decisions, how is smoking a pack a day or more for 30 years and then contracting emphysema or lung cancer a "rash" decision? Or drinking heavily enough that your liver gives up?
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seb146
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:32 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
The CBO has said preventitive medicine, in which everyone gets the above tests, will cost more in the long run since you are testing people that have virtually no chance of contracting the disease.

So, you are saying put profits ahead of the health of Americans. As a man, I have "virtually" no chance of contracting breast cancer. But, the chance is still there. I have zero history of any cancer on either side of my family. But, it would still be prudent to check once in a while. It's called "previntave care."
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NIKV69
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:00 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
As others have said, the bill now has to be combined with bills from other committees, and the public option will be put back in. The final bill will be far more expensive, especially after the first 10 years.

We have known this since the beginning. This vote really was meaningless. She is against the public option and Pelosi has basically painted herself in a corner by saying the public option has to be in the bill that gets to Obama's desk. It's a mess and it's going to get worse.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:10 pm

I am curious about one thing. A couple of months ago, we had all the tea parties and town hall meetings. Congress was in recess and HR 3200 was published on the net. During that time, I would guess that more Americans were actually educated about a major bill than anytime in history. Tens of Millions of people at least read large portions of the bill and a pretty large number of them actually read the whole thing front-to-back, which is of course why so many people got upset at it - they read it.

I'm curious about whether or not the American people will go through that process again, when the final bill comes out of conference and is ready for a final vote. First of all, will the final, binding version of the bill be ready and published before the vote? If so, will Americans actually take the time to read it and voice their opinions on it, or did they burn themselves out over the summer? Will the Democrats fast-track it to minimize the chance for people to read it, debate it and voice their opposition? Will the CBO have a chance to cost out the final bill? Will they voice an opinion on what the deficit impact will be after the first 10 years (which is what really scares me)?
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
dxing
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:15 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 33):
So, you are saying put profits ahead of the health of Americans.

SSDD. If saving money is what you are after then preventitive care, as portrayed by the President, will not do that.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 33):
But, it would still be prudent to check once in a while. It's called "previntave care."

It would also be prudent to do some screening before testing since it's easier and cheaper to do paperwork than lab tests. If you have zero cases of cancer in your family doing the lab work without some indicative symptoms is a waste of everyones money if you are below the accepted age and history threshold. Yet the President indicated he wants tests for everyone regardless of age or history.
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FlyPNS1
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:27 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 35):
Tens of Millions of people at least read large portions of the bill and a pretty large number of them actually read the whole thing front-to-back, which is of course why so many people got upset at it - they read it.

Very few people actually read it. They got upset because they were scared into being upset by threats of "death panels" and other imaginary ghosts.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 35):
If so, will Americans actually take the time to read it and voice their opinions on it, or did they burn themselves out over the summer?

Many Americans are probably burned out, that is the risk you take when you cry wolf. Eventually, no one cares.

Quoting DXing (Reply 36):
Yet the President indicated he wants tests for everyone regardless of age or history.

Please show me a quote where the President said we should blindly test everyone regardless of age or history.
 
Ken777
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
So your Senators are most likely on the sidelines for now.

My two Senators are right wing duffel butts who have zero chance of adding anything intelligent to the political process of finalizing the bill.

Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
there are numerous ways to reform the existing system to cut costs and open up markets to those whom are unable to obtain access now.

Amazing how the Republicans were unable to come up with even a few of the "numerous ways" when costs were doubling during the Bush/Cheney Administration.

Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
If I practice a healthy lifestyle why should I pay more than someone who dives, rock climbs, smokes, or drinks to excess?

Because you are exposed to more risks than you think. Drunk drivers heading you way is one, contact with people who are contagious with some medical condition, etc. Swing fl is probably the best example these days. Got kids? Swine flue is a killer of kids and "living a healthy lifestyle" won't help you much.

Your "reduced risks" to external impact as well as normal, unexpected (and very expensive) medical conditions is in your mind. Lots of people who led healthy lifestyles are in hospital today, and will be there tomorrow.

Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
For the ones that can't government safety nets are already in place and would cover many of the so-called "uninsured" in this country.

Sure, if you're are under the poverty level. Your assumption that people who pay more for health care than they do for rent don't need help is pretty far off the mark. But that's what keeps bankruptcy lawyers driving BMW.s

Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
All those were one time events.

TB seems to be coming back. Swine flue is going to be rather expensive to try to prevent and to treat when prevention doesn't work.

Quoting DXing (Reply 28):
Which is what public health care ought to be reserved for, those who simply cannot pay.

Should people who have to choose between medicine and flu qualify? What about those who cut their pills in half to save scarce money?

Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
The CBO has said preventitive medicine, in which everyone gets the above tests, will cost more in the long run since

Doctors practice Medicine. The CBO gives its best guess on costs in a lot of fields, being master of none.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 33):
As a man, I have "virtually" no chance of contracting breast cancer.

"Virtually" is the operative word here. Men do get breast cancer (especially, it appears, Marines) and men die at a higher rate than women from breast cancer.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 35):
which is of course why so many people got upset at it - they read it.

They also read the pap from the insurance companies - far more motivating to march. Especially since there is no final bill yet.

Quoting DXing (Reply 36):
It would also be prudent to do some screening before testing since it's easier and cheaper to do paperwork than lab tests.

Cheaper? Depends on the lab test and the cost of the paperwork. Getting a high school graduate working at minimum wage to review your paperwork is cheaper than a MRI. Getting paperwork properly processed using qualified people can be more expensive than basic blood tests.

Looking at high volume testing in certain areas, like an A1c Hemoglobin, also provides an opportunity to negotiate some very attractive prices. The A1c could, I believe, be a powerful tool in reducing Type 2 Diabetes in the school age/young adult population. That saves money down the road when we'll be treating the complications of Diabetes.

Quoting DXing (Reply 36):
If you have zero cases of cancer in your family doing the lab work without some indicative symptoms is a waste of everyones money if you are below the accepted age and history threshold.

My wife had zero cases of cancer in her family and has been through breast cancer and acute leukemia. Age thresholds for breast cancer? The younger a woman is the more vicious is seems to be. And my wife's version of leukemia (ALL) is what we traditionally consider to be a childhood version - and my wife was in her 60's when she came down with it.

Sorry, but I'll trust a good doctor deciding a test is needed than the CBO or a die hard conservative.
 
AGM100
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:31 pm

Love what Rush said today .,.. The "Pessimist" among us had a small victory . Those who believe that America and Americans are helpless and our future is dark ... need government care. Those that do not see success in future are filled with doubt and despair and need someone to hold there hands.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
seb146
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:39 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 36):
Yet the President indicated he wants tests for everyone regardless of age or history.

Good! Cancer can strike anyone anywhere anytime. Just like heart attacks. People that have zero risk factors still have heart problems. I would rather have tests every year or two than not have any tests at all until it is too late. But, if I can not afford it through the for-profit companies, because they deem it frivolous, why not take the government care and get tested once a year at a price I can afford?

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 39):
Those who believe that America and Americans are helpless and our future is dark ... need government care. Those that do not see success in future are filled with doubt and despair and need someone to hold there hands.

Hmmmmm...... Let's dissect that quote, shall we? Why are we "helpless" in the first place? Could it be our job opportunities? Why do people not see success in their future? Because, mabey, there is no success in their future because of fewer job opportunities and growing debt? Because of.... corporations! And we are to trust corporations who took away our jobs and given us huge debt?
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MaverickM11
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:53 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 40):
But, if I can not afford it through the for-profit companies, because they deem it frivolous, why not take the government care and get tested once a year at a price I can afford?

Someone still has to pay for it, regardless of what you're paying. I know it's easy to make the insurers the bad guys, but they're one of the few entities in this debate that actually have incentives to reduce costs. One way of doing that is not covering treatments that aren't cost effective, or effective at all. That doesn't change with government healthcare. There will still be cost ineffective treatments, and people will still demand them.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Pyrex
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:04 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091014/...p_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

Another Republican senator is behind the bill. Surprise surprise, she is from Maine as well. I guess the cat is out of the bag in that one, and the pork train is on its way to Augusta, ME. I wonder what it will be this time: subsidies for lobster fishermen? National Bluebetty Pie day?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 23):
I won't restate my comments on how much cheaper PRIVATE MEDICAL INSURANCE was in Australia.

Until you compare the coverage you had in Australia versus the one you had in the U.S. and all other costs associated (i.e. how much of your/someone else's wage went to the government to pay for that) then by all means don't restate it, because you are comparing the uncomparable.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 23):
Nothing is going to change your mind until your employer hang up on the insurance company cash cow.

I hear this over and over again so I decided to make a quick check on Yahoo Finance. This is the return on equity (ROE) of 5 big health insurers in the U.S.

AETNA 13.52%
CIGNA 13.02%
Wellpoint 11.15%
UnitedHealth 17.04%
Humana 18.24%

So of the billions upon billions of dollars health insurers need to invest in the business to be able to operate in it (unlike the government they need capital, they can't just say "ah, if we need money for contingent liabilities we will just raise taxes or print some more") they obtain a return that is perfectly reasonable and in line with what the expected return on equity in the market is like (in the neighborhood of 10-20%). By no means are these numbers monopoly rent. But then again, from people who look at how much money oil companies are making and assume they are being fleeced, without bothering to look at how much oil companies need to invest, what would you expect?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 27):
Insurance companies are able to sell in any state. That has already been addressed.

Hmm, no. We've been over this forever in the other thread and you still apparently refuse to get it, but let me make this clear for other people who might be more receptive to information that counter their preconceptions: insurance companies cannot sell in any state. If they go through the hoops in one state to obey the demands of some petty local insurance commissioner with an inflated sense of himself, pay local registration fees and adapt their products to the desires of someone whose mere purpose is to justify their own job they might be able to offer their products in the states they go through that process in. It's like if Coca-Cola had to change the sugar content in their drinks depending on the state they were selling in.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 27):
I think what really needs to be addressed is insurance that can be used anywhere in the country, not just with certain doctors in certain hospitals in certain states.

So, that brilliant idea of yours of ending the concept of "in-network"? If you think the premium hikes under this bill are too small and want to see everyone pay even more for their health insurance that might be a good way to ensure that, yes.

Quoting Continental (Reply 30):
What about other scenarios like cancers?

Well, Bush did pass a bill a few years ago prohibiting anyone from discriminating people based on their genetic predisposition for anything (basically, protecting the genome).

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 31):
The key to success of the casino or the insurance company is setting the percentage of the return. And being lucky enough to avoid the big lucky winner too often.

Exactly. Just like a casino, any insurance contract is something that inherently should be in the money for the insurance company/casino, not for the customer/client. After all, in a casino your downside is limited (to how much money you put in) and your upside is (almost) unlimited, while for the casino the reverse is true. However, as I showed above, the vig the insurance companies are charging doesn't seem to be too out of line.
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Ken777
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:27 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 42):
I hear this over and over again so I decided to make a quick check on Yahoo Finance. This is the return on equity (ROE) of 5 big health insurers in the U.S.

AETNA 13.52%
CIGNA 13.02%
Wellpoint 11.15%
UnitedHealth 17.04%
Humana 18.24%

And what re the ratings of these five? I'm talking about patient ratings. And
what percentage of test or treatment requests are initially denied. Like airline on time data that number & percentage of initial denials should be made public. You might be surprised at the relationship between profits & ROI to denials.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 42):
It's like if Coca-Cola had to change the sugar content in their drinks depending on the state they were selling in.

Is that the argument to deny the concept of state rights altogether? I'm actually more in favor of "equal protection" than I am of state rights, but have long been amused at the arbitrary approach to deciding to turn away from state rights when it suits an argument.
 
AGM100
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:02 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 40):
Because of.... corporations!

Fear not , the big corporations are fully behind this bill ... they would much prefer taxpayers fit the bill for healthcare. Uni health care is a big corporations dream come true. The problem is big corporations and governemnt only employ apprx 30% of Americans..small buisness does the rest. The big corporate types , unions and governemnt employees want governemnt healthcare... it gets them off the hook since they dont pay much tax anyway. Its us small buisness owners and self motivated producers who will pay all the taxes ... and stand in line at the DMV..oops I mean DOH office.

Well, I guess we will just see if the Dems really believe in it ..... they are going to have to use the nuclear option to get it though the Senate ... so lets see Harry Reid and his Captain courageous courage !  sly 
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Continental
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:36 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 32):
As to rash decisions, how is smoking a pack a day or more for 30 years and then contracting emphysema or lung cancer a "rash" decision? Or drinking heavily enough that your liver gives up?

To put it better, not every disease is related to mindless, or poor decisions made by individuals.

Even if somebody did smoke for 30 years, I think it'd be better to do whatever possible to prevent the initiation of lung cancer in these individuals for the rest of their lives. It'd probably be cheaper and preferred to than chemotherapy, surgery, radiation, etc. I work in a lab that is developing a compound that could potentially be used to prevent lung cancer in current and former smokers. The money saved by preventing rather than treating the cancer will benefit all as insurance companies will not have to increase premiums to cover the costs of treatment. This can be said for many, many diseases.
 
Lufthansa411
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "hist

Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:00 am

Going to school in Germany this year, I applied for German health insurance. There was a 3 page form to fill out, which mostly consisted of addresses and government verification details. There was not one health question. Within a week I got a letter saying I was covered, and now pay about 60€ a month for full insurance, being able to see any doctor, go to any hospital and receive any treatment in Germany. Try getting that in the US. It is Impossible.

Quoting DXing (Reply 36):
It would also be prudent to do some screening before testing since it's easier and cheaper to do paperwork than lab tests. If you have zero cases of cancer in your family doing the lab work without some indicative symptoms is a waste of everyones money if you are below the accepted age and history threshold. Yet the President indicated he wants tests for everyone regardless of age or history.

Still waiting for a quote or source. From what I have read Obama has urged preventive care (yearly check-ups, tests appropriate to risk factors etc.) and not diagnostic tests for everyone.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 42):
So, that brilliant idea of yours of ending the concept of "in-network"? If you think the premium hikes under this bill are too small and want to see everyone pay even more for their health insurance that might be a good way to ensure that, yes.

What premium hikes? I have a "great" (by US standards) insurance plan currently. However, the list of doctors that are "in network" is a joke compared to the total number in my area. If I go to the hospital, there is a 90% that the anaesthesiologist will not be covered. Same with ER doctors. And I live in a county where there is one main insurer (the insurance I have), and a couple other smaller plans.

That means that I pay premiums as well as co-payments, on top of whatever the doctor that happens to be on call decides to charge. And this is cheaper how??? If every doctor under every specialty is covered, supply and demand would determine pretty quickly that the price would go down, not up, as there is more choice. As it is now, I can't say when I show up for surgery "oh sorry, I don't want to have lifesaving surgery today, because XYZ doctor who I didn't choose isn't covered by insurance."

If I had to pay even $20 more per doctors visit out of pocket, but in return there was no "in network/out of network" I would still have thousands of dollars in just ER and surgery costs. And I am considered "low risk".
Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
 
dxing
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RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:33 am



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 37):
Please show me a quote where the President said we should blindly test everyone regardless of age or history.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0...a-health-care-speech_n_281265.html

And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies -- (applause) -- because there's no reason we shouldn't be catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse. That makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives. (Applause.)

That means he will make it law that it is required for a person to get tested for free and that he would expect everyone to get tested regardless of their risk factor. If not he would have clarified it but he didn't and he hasn't.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
My two Senators are right wing duffel butts who have zero chance of adding anything intelligent to the political process of finalizing the bill.

Thank goodness for the right wing duffel butts who might be able in some small way protect us against the supposed intellectuals and power mongers of the left.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Amazing how the Republicans were unable to come up with even a few of the "numerous ways" when costs were doubling during the Bush/Cheney Administration.

 redflag  Here we go again. I suppose you believe that if you just keep repeating false statements that some how they will become truth. The GOP, President Bush in particular, tried for 8 years to get even minor reforms to health insurance passed only to be shot down by the democrats in the Senate since the GOP didn't have 60 votes or anywhere near it. It was never enough and of course since President Bush would have gotten credit that could not be allowed.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Because you are exposed to more risks than you think. Drunk drivers heading you way is one, contact with people who are contagious with some medical condition, etc. Swing fl is probably the best example these days. Got kids? Swine flue is a killer of kids and "living a healthy lifestyle" won't help you much.

 redflag  Goes back to life isn't fair which you don't accept. Swine flu? The amount of people that have contracted it, both old and young, and survived far outnumber those that have passed. Keep hyping it up though.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Your "reduced risks" to external impact as well as normal, unexpected (and very expensive) medical conditions is in your mind. Lots of people who led healthy lifestyles are in hospital today, and will be there tomorrow.

 redflag  Falls again into the life isn't fair catagory and no amount of insurance is going to stop any of that but neither are insurance companies wholesale cutting those that do become sick off from their benefits. You can continue to come up with the odd story but by and large most people who get sick and have health insurance get well and retain their policy.



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Sure, if you're are under the poverty level.

Which is what any public option should be reserved for.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Your assumption that people who pay more for health care than they do for rent don't need help is pretty far off the mark

Your assumption that there are many people who do that is ridiculous.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Should people who have to choose between medicine and flu qualify? What about those who cut their pills in half to save scarce money?

Hyperbole and again using the scarce example as somehow being the norm.

Is that all you can do, throw up scare tactics, hyperbole, and fradulent statements that are not backed up by any source that can't be debunked?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Doctors practice Medicine.

And the CBO scores bills that Congress passes and more often than not they come in on the low side of the actual cost.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Cheaper? Depends on the lab test and the cost of the paperwork. Getting a high school graduate working at minimum wage to review your paperwork is cheaper than a MRI. Getting paperwork properly processed using qualified people can be more expensive than basic blood tests.

 redflag  The government and medical people put out the guidelines of who is most at risk and who is not. Unless your HS graduate can't read and compare then the MRI is going to be more expensive. Please provide a source for your ascertation that qualified people will cost more than basic blood tests.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
My wife had zero cases of cancer in her family and has been through breast cancer and acute leukemia.

Of course as we have discussed adnauseum, your families unfortunate medical history should be treated as the norm for all citizens.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Sorry, but I'll trust a good doctor deciding a test is needed than the CBO or a die hard conservative.

Of course, you don't care how much of other peoples money you, or anyone else spends. No liberal ever does.


Quoting Seb146 (Reply 40):
Good! Cancer can strike anyone anywhere anytime. Just like heart attacks.

Hmmm...where'd you get your medical degree?

Quoting Continental (Reply 45):
The money saved by preventing rather than treating the cancer will benefit all as insurance companies will not have to increase premiums to cover the costs of treatment. This can be said for many, many diseases.

Again, the CBO has clearly scored useless preventitive testing as being wasteful of resources and costing more than testing those that fit into the most likely catagory.

Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 46):
Still waiting for a quote or source.

Some of us have to work for living. Some of us choose to work for the adventure. Which are you?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
san747
Posts: 4347
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:03 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 47):

And insurance companies will be required to cover, with no extra charge, routine checkups and preventive care, like mammograms and colonoscopies -- (applause) -- because there's no reason we shouldn't be catching diseases like breast cancer and colon cancer before they get worse. That makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives. (Applause.)

That means he will make it law that it is required for a person to get tested for free and that he would expect everyone to get tested regardless of their risk factor. If not he would have clarified it but he didn't and he hasn't.

Oh come on DXing. I've read your posts before and you're smarter than this. I've never seen words twisted around so self-servingly. What he will make law is that insurance companies COVER the costs of getting tested, not mandating all citizens do so no matter what. This will certainly encourage more people to get preventative care, but it doesn't make it compulsory.

Quoting DXing (Reply 47):


Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
Sorry, but I'll trust a good doctor deciding a test is needed than the CBO or a die hard conservative.

Of course, you don't care how much of other peoples money you, or anyone else spends. No liberal ever does.

Why should it matter? It's not like your money specifically will be used to treat only Ken777 and no one else. The money "you, or anyone else spends" toward healthcare is used to benefit everyone, including people (gasp) you don't know, to promote the welfare of society. Of course, you don't care how many people you have no personal connection to must suffer or go needlessly bankrupt because of illness they can't afford to treat. No conservative ever does.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Sen. Snow Drops Common Sense In Favor Of "history"

Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:04 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 47):

Again, the CBO has clearly scored useless preventitive testing as being wasteful of resources and costing more than testing those that fit into the most likely catagory.

But wouldn't that still mean that a good deal of people would need preventive testing?

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