futurepilot16
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Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:41 pm

How can anyone view this country (with nuclear weapons) as safe anymore? There are dark days ahead for Pakistan, and i'm certainly worried about those nukes. If these attacks keep up, we're gonna be talking full scale war for Pakistan against the Taliban.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33322113.../world_news-south_and_central_asia
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golfradio
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:02 pm

Pakistan is a failed state. The mistake was to trust the Pakistani Dictatorship on it's promises to reign in the Taliban. People fail to understand that the ISI has very close ties with the Taliban. ISI has Taliban sympathizers at the highest levels. Trusting the Pakistani Army on one hand and asking it to reign in the ISI / Taliban is a paradox.

When the US blessed Pervez Musharraf as the defacto leader after 9/11, it pretty much let the situation get out of hands. That was the time when Musharraf should have been ousted and the civilians should have been empowered to take over. Musharraf pretty much blocked all access to A.Q. Khan. We will never know to whom he has peddled the designs for the nukes. We can worry about the nukes that are in the silos but you will never know for sure if some rogue within the A.Q. Khan/ISI/Al-Qaeda network has already gotten hands on the designs.

It is still not too late. Snatch A.Q. Khan and make him sing.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:07 pm



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
Pakistan is a failed state. The mistake was to trust the Pakistani Dictatorship on it's promises to reign in the Taliban. People fail to understand that the ISI has very close ties with the Taliban. ISI has Taliban sympathizers at the highest levels. Trusting the Pakistani Army on one hand and asking it to reign in the ISI / Taliban is a paradox.

In addition to all that is that the people of Pakistan are pretty radical themselves. While a majority seem to tell pollsters that they see the Taliban as a problem, a majority of the population appears to support the enforcement of Sharia Law throughout the country - which is the goal of the Taliban. So they want to fight them, but agree with their goals. A bit schizophrenic, if you ask me.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:14 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
Pakistan is a failed state. The mistake was to trust the Pakistani Dictatorship on it's promises to reign in the Taliban. People fail to understand that the ISI has very close ties with the Taliban. ISI has Taliban sympathizers at the highest levels. Trusting the Pakistani Army on one hand and asking it to reign in the ISI / Taliban is a paradox.

In addition to all that is that the people of Pakistan are pretty radical themselves. While a majority seem to tell pollsters that they see the Taliban as a problem, a majority of the population appears to support the enforcement of Sharia Law throughout the country - which is the goal of the Taliban. So they want to fight them, but agree with their goals. A bit schizophrenic, if you ask me.



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
It is still not too late. Snatch A.Q. Khan and make him sing.

You may recall, although there were problems with Pervez Musharraf, including the ISI, there were also fewer problems under him. The Pakistani nukes were not under a threat. It is the current government there that has lost control.

The US needs to consider destroying the Pakistani nuke weapons and design plans.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:25 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
In addition to all that is that the people of Pakistan are pretty radical themselves. While a majority seem to tell pollsters that they see the Taliban as a problem, a majority of the population appears to support the enforcement of Sharia Law throughout the country - which is the goal of the Taliban. So they want to fight them, but agree with their goals. A bit schizophrenic, if you ask me.

Pakistan has long harbored the Taliban and I think that's exactly why. A majority believe in their sharia law, so, you have support from a lot of places for the Taliban, especially smaller insurgency groups who were already in Pakistan who are now joining forces with the Taliban.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
The US needs to consider destroying the Pakistani nuke weapons and design plans

I agree, but unlikely to happen. Every time we even cross over the border two miles into Pakistan to pursue the Taliban, they say we're inerferring with their sovereignty, so I don't think they'd even let us consider proposing a plan to destroying their nukes.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
baroque
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:47 pm



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
Snatch A.Q. Khan and make him sing.

More likely is the Talibs will grab AQK and make him King.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attac

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:00 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
In addition to all that is that the people of Pakistan are pretty radical themselves. While a majority seem to tell pollsters that they see the Taliban as a problem, a majority of the population appears to support the enforcement of Sharia Law throughout the country - which is the goal of the Taliban. So they want to fight them, but agree with their goals. A bit schizophrenic, if you ask me.

From what I understand, a majority of the population are fed up of the farce of law made by the few corrupt semi-feudal families, which traditionally run Pakistan´s politics. Sharia law was (is) seen as a honest and predictable alternative to a legal system, where, whoever is in power in a certain region, bends the law, bribes the judges and police to suit himself.
On the other hand from what I´ve read on the BBC site, many people were shocked by the actual application of sharia law by the Taliban, esp. in the Swat valley.

Jan
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Aaron747
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:00 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
The US needs to consider destroying the Pakistani nuke weapons and design plans.

You know that's not a bad idea. India just might pay us to do it!
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imiakhtar
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:33 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
From what I understand, a majority of the population are fed up of the farce of law made by the few corrupt semi-feudal families, which traditionally run Pakistan´s politics. Sharia law was (is) seen as a honest and predictable alternative to a legal system, where, whoever is in power in a certain region, bends the law, bribes the judges and police to suit himself.

Bingo. We have a winner!

You don't have to be a whiz to see the that current NATO/ISAF/Pak strategy of bombing the Taliban into submission isn't working. One of the reasons the Taliban fare so well with popular support in NWFP, Swat and to a certain extent Baluchistan is because they command respect. They're providing basic security to regions that are otherwise lawless. The Sharia courts bypass the corrupt govt officials and bureaucratic judicial systems in place and are often free of charge.

In my opinion, the Pak govt should establish sharia law in NWFP and Baluchistan. Doing so would remove a lot of the peoples' grievances and would help marginalise the Taliban.

One thing is certain, the current scorched earth policy employed in the Tribal regions can not continue.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:50 pm



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 8):
One of the reasons the Taliban fare so well with popular support in NWFP, Swat and to a certain extent Baluchistan is because they command respect. They're providing basic security to regions that are otherwise lawless.

That's like saying the Mafia kept order in Little Italy, after having driven out the real police.

Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 8):
In my opinion, the Pak govt should establish sharia law in NWFP and Baluchistan. Doing so would remove a lot of the peoples' grievances and would help marginalise the Taliban.

Sharia is a crime against humanity and should never be allowed to expand anywhere. Sharia is utterly incompatible with any sort of free and/or modern society. How do you think that giving in to the Taliban's demands will marginalize them?
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golfradio
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:11 pm



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 8):
In my opinion, the Pak govt should establish sharia law in NWFP and Baluchistan

Where have you been? Sharia has already been implemented in the Swat Valley. What has that done for the people in that region? Squat. Women are being brutally subjugated, men are being forced to support the Taliban, kids are being pulled out of schools, the people who are suspected of being Government supporters are being eliminated and the Taliban is growing stronger by levying their own taxes.

More importantly it has emboldened the Taliban into thinking that they have the upper hand.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
You may recall, although there were problems with Pervez Musharraf, including the ISI, there were also fewer problems under him

It was Musharraf who made the truce with the Taliban in the Swat valley and the NWFP and then pulled out the Army from those areas. That pretty much left a vacuum and gave the Taliban a free run. This is now a haven from where the Taliban are getting stronger. They can hit the NATO forces in Afghanistan and then retreat back for rest and regrouping. Not to mention their new sources of financing by way of taxes on the people of Swat and NWFP and the illicit opium trade.
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AGM100
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:30 pm



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
When the US blessed Pervez Musharraf as the defacto leader after 9/11, it pretty much let the situation get out of hands

So if we "bless" someone else then all of it will work out ? He was the president of Pak ... what do you suggest we should have done ..over throw him ?

America is not to blame for Pakistan ...the people are responsible for there own failure. Their fore father's chose the path by alienating themselves into a religiously biased racist country .... epic fail. But hey at least they achieved Islamic purity . Most Muslim nations would be about the same if they didn't have oil .... epic failures... lets just speak frankly. Where would they be without oil ? Toast that's where .

Spare the blame America crap .... We need to blame the Muslim purists and radical terrorists who only know how to blow shit up..they build nothing , they offer know light to humanity .
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golfradio
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:43 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
He was the president of Pak ... what do you suggest we should have done ..over throw him ?



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
Spare the blame America crap

Exactly. He should have been overthrown. There were two ex Prime Ministers who were in exile. Between them they had the support of almost the entire Pakistani population. This was a nobrainer. You took out Saddam and tried to put a democratic government when the people in Iraq had never seen democracy in generations. But in Pakistan you pretty much shut out the democratic leaders and give $6,000,000,000 with no strings attached to a guy who used to sleep with the ISI? Talk about consistency in your foreign policy. If you thought you could buy out the Pakistani Army and it's support with a $6 billion blank cheque you were wrong.
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AGM100
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:13 pm



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 12):
Talk about consistency in your foreign policy. If you thought you could buy out the Pakistani Army and it's support with a $6 billion blank cheque you were wrong.

Ok , we fu**ed up ... got it. But the fact remains that Pak is and has been a failure . Even in the cold war when they had chances to grow a better society and strengthen the central government they didn't. Corruption , religious radicals and millions of impoverished citizens are the tell tail signs of failure .
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Springbok747
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:37 pm

Pakistan seems to be losing control quickly...but then again when did the Pak. govt have control over anything? The danger posed by the presence of Pakistan's nuclear facilities in this conflict with the Taliban/extremists is very real and neighbouring countries need to be on alert.
Pakistan's defence forces don't seem to have the power to prevent mayhem in their own backyard. If they had spent less time being paranoid about nonexistent attacks from India and concentrating on their own backyard, we wouldn't be in this mess.
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victrola
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:46 pm



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 8):
In my opinion, the Pak govt should establish sharia law in NWFP and Baluchistan. Doing so would remove a lot of the peoples' grievances and would help marginalise the Taliban.

So you believe in stoning people to death, beheadings, executing people for wanting to change their religion, and women's court testimony to have only half the value of a man?

Sharia is evil and disgusting.
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:38 am



Quoting Victrola (Reply 15):
So you believe in stoning people to death, beheadings, executing people for wanting to change their religion, and women's court testimony to have only half the value of a man?

Sharia is evil and disgusting.

They don't mind. If they did, the people of Pakistan and Afghanistan would come out against it. I think they love to have somebody telling them what to do and what is right. They have no damn freedom and they don't care, why should American and Nato troops and even Pakistani troops give their lives to free them from sharia law when they don't want to speak out against it.
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baroque
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:46 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
The US needs to consider destroying the Pakistani nuke weapons and design plans.

You know that's not a bad idea. India just might pay us to do it!

 Smile And probably enough to meet the debts for, oh say at least a month!! But even at half that price, it would be worth it. Then India could concentrate on China.  Wink
 
Springbok747
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:31 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 16):
They don't mind. If they did, the people of Pakistan and Afghanistan would come out against it.

Pakistanis judge India as a very serious threat to the nation (69%) than regard the Taliban (57%) or al Qaeda (41%) as very serious threats.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=265

WTF?! India is more of a threat than Taliban or AQ?! Do these people have their heads screwed on right?

Also:
The new poll finds broad support for harsh punishments: 78% favor death for those who leave Islam; 80% favor whippings and cutting off hands for crimes like theft and robbery; and 83% favor stoning adulterers.

So basically Pakistanis like Sharia law. So why would they want to get rid of the Taliban or AQ? This whole military thing is a show put on for Western countries to sucker them into giving more aid. And its working too:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama quietly signed a $7.5 billion aid bill for Pakistan on Thursday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-A...tan-Pakistan/idUSTRE59E6XL20091015
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imiakhtar
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:33 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Sharia is a crime against humanity and should never be allowed to expand anywhere.

I disagree.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Sharia is utterly incompatible with any sort of free and/or modern society.

My opinion differs. It wasn't so long ago that the muslim world was the centre of learning. All this fell away to ruin at the abandonment of Sharia. The muslim world will remain in the doldrums until it gets back to the basics of Sharia and works from there.

Quoting Golfradio (Reply 10):
Sharia has already been implemented in the Swat Valley.

Sharia was never fully implemented in Swat. The Pak govt was taken off guard by Fazlullah's takeover and used the ceasefire in order to allow the army to re-group and mount an offensive much as it has done in the various Waziristan peace accords.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 15):
So you believe in stoning people to death, beheadings, executing people for wanting to change their religion, and women's court testimony to have only half the value of a man?

Yes, yes, no and no.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 17):
Then India could concentrate on China.

Unfortunately, a lot of Pakistanis have it in their mindset that India is the no.1 threat. India, unlike Pakistan has never instigated war with it's neighbour. Nevertheless, the Pakistani Armed Forces are in a de facto arms race with India which is one they can never win. I believe the current head of the Air Force is in the US this week attending a launch ceremony at Lockheed Martin for the latest batch of F16s. They were part of a $3.6 billion deal inked in '06.

According to unicef, 20% of Pakistan's budget is spent on defence. Health and education are allocated 1% and 2% respectively.

Someone's got their priorities right.

A not-so-happy Imiakhtar  Sad
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baroque
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:00 am



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 19):
My opinion differs. It wasn't so long ago that the muslim world was the centre of learning. All this fell away to ruin at the abandonment of Sharia.

I think you might be committing a major error here. First it was probably a different Sharia under which Islam flourished as a centre of learning. Around 1000 AD, Sharia might well have represented a more advanced legal system compared with other legal systems AT THAT TIME!!

See
http://entertainment.timesonline.co....nt/tv_and_radio/article4035832.ece
Much criticised but he does point out the evolution of law.

And there lies the point. Sharia has stayed still or gone backwards if anything in the hands of some modern practitioners. Meanwhile western law has evolved through very Sharia type practices to trials, to juries and the style of modern trials. And still these clearly do not always administer justice. Which is why your support of stoning and beheading is problematical to say the least.

As
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/about_ju...history_of_the_judiciary/index.htm
states
WHEN you see a judge or magistrate sitting in court, you are actually looking at the result of 1,000 years of legal evolution.

It's doubtful that anyone asked to design a justice system would choose to copy the England and Wales model. It's contradictory in places, and rather confusing.

However, the judiciary is still changing and evolving to meet the needs of our society, and despite its oddities it is widely regarded as one of the best in the world.


Sharia is simply out of date, past its use by date. Dreadfully old fashioned, what else do you want???? Of its nature, or rather of the nature of Islamic acceptance of statements in the Quran and supporting documents, it CANNOT evolve. Therefore it is doomed as a successful basis for a legal system.

Is Sharia better than nothing, probably, but not by bloody much. That is descriptive and is not the use of the word as swearing. My bloody oath it is not, now that IS swearing.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:40 am



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 1):
Snatch A.Q. Khan and make him sing.

Exactly what needs to be done...And a lot of suprises will emit.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
You know that's not a bad idea. India just might pay us to do it!

India always prefers a stable Pak Govt,who has the authority to represent that country & keep the committments made in public forums,unfortunately in 60+ yrs that did not exist.So who do India talk to.
However if the Taliban take over Pak.....I don't think India will wait for those weapons to fall in wrong hands.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 11):
Spare the blame America crap .... We need to blame the Muslim purists and radical terrorists who only know how to blow shit up..they build nothing , they offer know light to humanity .

India has the 2nd largest muslim population in the world...one does not see this here.

Quoting Golfradio (Reply 12):
But in Pakistan you pretty much shut out the democratic leaders and give $6,000,000,000 with no strings attached to a guy who used to sleep with the ISI? Talk about consistency in your foreign policy. If you thought you could buy out the Pakistani Army and it's support with a $6 billion blank cheque you were wrong.

US Aid should have had accountability.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 16):
They don't mind. If they did, the people of Pakistan and Afghanistan would come out against it.

Under the fear of the gun,even you would be nodding yes to everything.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 18):
WTF?! India is more of a threat than Taliban or AQ?! Do these people have their heads screwed on right?

Pak should stop being India centric all the time,just as India is NOT pak centric.
The People of Pak want to be friendly with India,but those political fools don't get it.

Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 19):
Unfortunately, a lot of Pakistanis have it in their mindset that India is the no.1 threat. India, unlike Pakistan has never instigated war with it's neighbour

not those that experience the reality of actual Indian contact.

regds
MEL.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:55 pm



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 19):
My opinion differs. It wasn't so long ago that the muslim world was the centre of learning. All this fell away to ruin at the abandonment of Sharia. The muslim world will remain in the doldrums until it gets back to the basics of Sharia and works from there.



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 19):
Quoting Victrola (Reply 15):
So you believe in stoning people to death, beheadings, executing people for wanting to change their religion, and women's court testimony to have only half the value of a man?

Yes, yes, no and no.

You have a problem right there. You cannot choose what parts of Sharia are valid. If the law is based on the word of Allah, and if Allah is perfect, then the law is perfect, and you are not allowed to change it. There is no provision for a jury trial under Sharia Law. No testimony may be made by people who have lowly jobs, such as a street sweeper or a bath house attendant, or non-Muslim. Testimony regarding fornication or sodomy requires four male eye-witnesses to the act. A woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man.

And if you think that Sharia makes the leadership behave better, Modern law provides for ways to remove politicians if found guilty of "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors." There is no such provision in Sharia.

We could go on and on about why Sharia does not belong in the 21st century.
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victrola
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:48 pm



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 19):
Quoting Victrola (Reply 15):
So you believe in stoning people to death, beheadings, executing people for wanting to change their religion, and women's court testimony to have only half the value of a man?

Yes, yes, no and no.

Imiakhtar, the fact that any human being could advocate such a cruel and barbaric punnishment to another human being absolutely disgusts me. Your belief system is truly evil.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:07 pm



Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 18):
Pakistanis judge India as a very serious threat to the nation (69%) than regard the Taliban (57%) or al Qaeda (41%) as very serious threats.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display...D=265



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 19):
Unfortunately, a lot of Pakistanis have it in their mindset that India is the no.1 threat. India, unlike Pakistan has never instigated war with it's neighbour. Nevertheless, the Pakistani Armed Forces are in a de facto arms race with India which is one they can never win. I believe the current head of the Air Force is in the US this week attending a launch ceremony at Lockheed Martin for the latest batch of F16s. They were part of a $3.6 billion deal inked in '06.

According to unicef, 20% of Pakistan's budget is spent on defence. Health and education are allocated 1% and 2% respectively.

Someone's got their priorities right.

A not-so-happy Imiakhtar Sad

The Pakistani Army use the invented threat from India to justify their existence , their massive armament policies (which allows the generals to line their pockets with bribes) and the regular taking over of the country´s government. Unfortunately AFAIK all civilian candidates for higher political office belong to powerful landowning families, who rule on their territory like feudal lords and can practically do whatever they want because they own the judges and police.
Basically political power in Pakistan runs with a couple of rich families and some generals.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
victrola
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:30 pm

[quote=Imiakhtar,reply=19]My opinion differs. It wasn't so long ago that the muslim world was the centre of learning. All this fell away to ruin at the abandonment of Sharia. The muslim world will remain in the doldrums until it gets back to the basics of Sharia and works from there.


The Islamic world is in the doldrums because it refuses do evolve and insists that its salvation lies in applying 10th century solutions to 21st century problems.

No ammount of stonings, beheadings, and lashes will bring the Islamic world back to being the center of learning and enlightenment it once was 1000 years ago.
 
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par13del
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:56 pm



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 8):
One of the reasons the Taliban fare so well with popular support in NWFP, Swat and to a certain extent Baluchistan is because they command respect

At the barrel of a gun or because their principles are so high?

Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 19):
Yes, yes, no and no.

Now, now, one cannot pick and choose which parts of Sharia you support unless your are the one in charge and the folks are following you as their religious leader.
 
victrola
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:02 pm



Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 18):
Also:
The new poll finds broad support for harsh punishments: 78% favor death for those who leave Islam; 80% favor whippings and cutting off hands for crimes like theft and robbery; and 83% favor stoning adulterers.

What a horribly sick and disgusting society.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:05 pm

For those who say that Sharia is a great idea, check this out.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE59F24220091016

Quote:
By Abdi Sheikh

MOGADISHU (Reuters) - Somalia's hardline Islamist group al Shabaab has publicly whipped women for wearing bras they say violate Islam by constituting a deception, north Mogadishu residents said on Friday.

The insurgent group, which seeks to impose a strict form of sharia Islamic law throughout Somalia, amputated a foot and a hand each from two young men accused of robbery earlier this month. They have also banned movies, musical ringtones, dancing at wedding ceremonies and playing or watching soccer.

Residents said gunmen had been rounding up any woman seen with a firm bust and then had them publicly whipped by masked men. The women were then told to remove their bras and shake their breasts.

"Al shabaab forced us to wear their type of veil and now they order us to shake our breasts," a resident, Halima, told Reuters, adding that her daughters had been whipped on Thursday.

"They first banned the former veil and introduced a hard fabric which stands stiffly on women's chests. They are now saying that breasts should be firm naturally, or just flat."

The group's hardline interpretation of Islamic law has shocked many Somalis, who are traditionally moderate Muslims. Some residents, however, give the insurgents credit for restoring order to the regions under their control.

The people that get off on this sort of thing, and the people who support them, are difficult to defend as even human.

[Edited 2009-10-16 16:11:33]
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:48 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 24):
The Pakistani Army use the invented threat from India to justify their existence

Surprisingly when India keeps telling pak.we are not the enemy but the terrorists are,go after them,the border will be safe.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 25):
The muslim world will remain in the doldrums until it gets back to the basics of Sharia and works from there.

India has a larger population of Muslims,2nd largest in the world....You don't see these laws here.
Its in the thinking.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:56 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28):
For those who say that Sharia is a great idea, check this out.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE59F24220091016

Quote:
By Abdi Sheikh

MOGADISHU (Reuters) - Somalia's hardline Islamist group al Shabaab has publicly whipped women for wearing bras they say violate Islam by constituting a deception, north Mogadishu residents said on Friday.

The insurgent group, which seeks to impose a strict form of sharia Islamic law throughout Somalia, amputated a foot and a hand each from two young men accused of robbery earlier this month. They have also banned movies, musical ringtones, dancing at wedding ceremonies and playing or watching soccer.

Residents said gunmen had been rounding up any woman seen with a firm bust and then had them publicly whipped by masked men. The women were then told to remove their bras and shake their breasts.

"Al shabaab forced us to wear their type of veil and now they order us to shake our breasts," a resident, Halima, told Reuters, adding that her daughters had been whipped on Thursday.

"They first banned the former veil and introduced a hard fabric which stands stiffly on women's chests. They are now saying that breasts should be firm naturally, or just flat."

The group's hardline interpretation of Islamic law has shocked many Somalis, who are traditionally moderate Muslims. Some residents, however, give the insurgents credit for restoring order to the regions under their control.

The people that get off on this sort of thing, and the people who support them, are difficult to defend as even human.

[Edited 2009-10-16 16:11:33]

The funny thing is that while Somalia was always a predominantly Muslim country, the Islam traditionally practised there was of a very laid back attitude.
The development shown above is very recent, due to the influence of Wahabi extremist missionaries (and fighters) from Saudi Arabia.
Also, one similarity: During the recent decade Somalia used to be extremely lawless, whoever had the strongest gang would take whatever he liked. So it seems that people are longing for ANY kind of law and order, and, if nothing else is available, take sharia law.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
victrola
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RE: Dozens More Die In New Waves Of Pakistan Attacks

Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:27 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 29):
India has a larger population of Muslims,2nd largest in the world....You don't see these laws here.
Its in the thinking.
regds
MEL.

India chose a different path from Pakistan at independence and that has made all the difference. India can be proud of its democratic traditions, and its recent economic progress.Unlike Pakistan, India is a country with a promising future.

Proponents of Islamic regimes please take note.

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