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HAWK21M
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Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:26 am

I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
phbuf
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:31 am

Hmm..I dunno about all this..I truly believe the only country/army that can fight and defeat the Taliban/Al Qaeda are the Pakistanis. Other forces (mainly US I guess) could do it too, but only if they would get access to Pakistani air and ground territory and that will never happen.If the Pakistanis really want to, they can do it..up until now, they have done just enough to keep the US away from Pakistani soil. Maybe with the recent increase in terror attacks, the Pakistanis will finally step up and finish the job.
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:25 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Thread starter):
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...ht-Taliban/articleshow/5137237.cms

Interesting Article

Interesting but odd in a way. I know of one of yr colleagues who will be throwing a fit at this sentence!

Indians can join as the British Army as they are nationals of the Commonwealth countries.

Hope he fulfills his ambition, but sod's law tells us he will actually be sent to the Falklands or somewhere similar!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:23 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Interesting but odd in a way. I know of one of yr colleagues who will be throwing a fit at this sentence!

I wonder who.....

I guess the Pak army has started an offensive against the taliban in a more agressive manner.In case they need assistance.many nations would help.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:23 pm



Quoting PHBUF (Reply 1):
Hmm..I dunno about all this..I truly believe the only country/army that can fight and defeat the Taliban/Al Qaeda are the Pakistanis.

I think this is the beginning of WW3, everyone has to take part in this to get rid of the Taliban and stop looking at countries that have been attacked and saying "it's your problem", because it's everybody's problem, especially India which is right next door to the violence. The pakistanis also have to play a larger role in this war, perhaps the largest. Their lack of military intelligence and execution aggravates me. They're gov't seems dimwitted against the Taliban and the taliban's strength is growing at a very rapid rate.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:35 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 4):
I think this is the beginning of WW3, everyone has to take part in this to get rid of the Taliban and stop looking at countries that have been attacked and saying "it's your problem", because it's everybody's problem, especially India which is right next door to the violence.

This evening's news should have the likes of thee and me rolling our heads in amazement. After years of being told the Talibs only survive cos they retreat over the Pak border, tonight the Pak army are saying how can they fight a force supported so strongly from over the border.

We need the UN to come in and referee to find which flow - Afghanistan to Pakistan or Pakistan to Afghanistan - is the most significant. And then the other lot can stop appealing to that causation!!

Radicalizing the Pashtuns was not a good idea. Now whose idea was that?
 
Venus6971
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:57 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
Radicalizing the Pashtuns was not a good idea. Now whose idea was that?

A good primer to figure that out for the history adverse among us is to watch the Tom Hanks movie "Charlie Wilsons War" and how short sighted most politicians are. After the USSR left Afghanistan we more or less abandonned the Afghan people to a civil war among themselves and Arab foreign fighters. If we stayed though probably the same thing would have happened, Afghanistan is not really a country but a region with warring tribes that have been killing each since before Alexander the Great. We gave men with a 7th century mindset modern weopens to enhance there warlike ways on a other tribe. These guys never get tired of bleeding.
I would help you but it is not in the contract
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:09 pm



Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 6):
We gave men with a 7th century mindset modern weapons to enhance there warlike ways on a other tribe

We might argue about which century, but pretty fair comment. I know about Charlie W, the comment was fairly tongue in cheek. Charlie W has made real Charlies of everyone else who has tried to have much to do with Afghanistan. But it has gone a bit further than Charlie W could ever has imagined by adding to the previously volatile mix aid and drug money.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 6):
These guys never get tired of bleeding.

Individually they do, but in group terms, no they do not seem to tire of it.
 
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OA260
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:01 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
Interesting but odd in a way. I know of one of yr colleagues who will be throwing a fit at this sentence!

Indians can join as the British Army as they are nationals of the Commonwealth countries.

Whats wrong with that? India has gained alot from being part of the commonwealth. Indians joining the British Army is nothing new.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:02 pm

I read this news with amusement. It's really not going to amount to anything because the Pakis will just get paranoid and scream 'Indian spies!', forcing the British to keep such soldiers off the frontline. On the other hand it gives them access to higher pay and benefits, which they'll remit back home.

The Commonwealth gains by having India within, more than the other way around. Take away India and you have a bunch of small countries with UK+Australia running the show, minus the dynamism of having one of the fastest growing big economies within.

Finally, this news came from Tabloid of India, oops, Times of India  Smile
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:44 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
The Commonwealth gains by having India within, more than the other way around. Take away India and you have a bunch of small countries with UK+Australia running the show, minus the dynamism of having one of the fastest growing big economies within.

You just could not have the relationship as mutually beneficial could you? Are you suggesting the Commonwealth would be better if it invited China as well as Mozambique to join?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):

Whats wrong with that? India has gained alot from being part of the commonwealth. Indians joining the British Army is nothing new.

Nothing as far as I am concerned. Just I knew someone would not be totally ecstatic! And lo and behold, he was not.

He does have a point about the Pak reaction of Indian spies. But then the British army these days probably contains "spies" of a wide range of countries of origin. And presumably functions all the better for it.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:25 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 10):
You just could not have the relationship as mutually beneficial could you?

I really have no strong feelings about the Commonwealth whatsoever, primarily because I've no cultural or emotional ties to UK. It just seems like some legacy association that was 'grand fathered' into. Most Indians probably have no idea the country is even a member of the C'wealth, even though we are the biggest and most populous economy in the organization. If India quit the C'wealth it would be bigger news in UK/Australia than here. Losing us would indeed dent the organization significantly - it was the hope of keeping us within that led to the 1949 London Declaration and the modern C'wealth, after all.

However, it's not an economic entity, with no trading or investment incentives, or anything I see as worthwhile to India's economic progress. Its benefits are negligible outside of some cultural fluff, and CHOGM meetings barely register on the news here. Australia doesn't sell uranium to us despite selling to China. Indo-UK trade has been stagnant, while Sino-Indian and Indo-ASEAN trade has grown exponentially. The Asian Games have historically gotten much more press here than the C'wealth Games have, with only Delhi 2010 being different.

From a personal perspective related to aviation, I've avoided UK as a transit point in the past simply because they impose a transit visa while non-C'wealth locations like FRA don't, and a Schengen visa was better bang for buck for tourist trips. So I can't help being apathetic to the whole thing.
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:41 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 11):
However, it's not an economic entity, with no trading or investment incentives, or anything I see as worthwhile to India's economic progress. Its benefits are negligible outside of some cultural fluff, and CHOGM meetings barely register on the news here. Australia doesn't sell uranium to us despite selling to China. Indo-UK trade has been stagnant, while Sino-Indian and Indo-ASEAN trade has grown exponentially.

Blame FDR for much of that, and god knows why the UK has not joined Schengen. My wife needed a Schengen to go to Holland, and then because we transited LHR, she needed a UK visa too.

When I visited India, I was amazed to find that rather different attitudes from yours were common in India - amazed in that it started with a lecture from a guy in the High Comm in Canberra about the importance of the Commonwealth. Mind you that was in 1984 and things may have changed.

Folk go on about Arafat never missing an opportunity, since WWII, the UK has done a much more thorough job that Arafat could ever have aspired to.

Anyway, just two words BB, one is Lee and the other Brett! Born about 10 klicks away from here too at Oak Flats.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:58 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 12):
Mind you that was in 1984 and things may have changed.

1984 was a *long* time ago; the UK was a much bigger influence than today. However, it's a very different world now. Today's India is all about economic development and 'what's in it for us', and the C'wealth does nothing in that regard; the word brings images of PG Wodehouse, top hats and monocles to mind - just passe.

PS: I don't get the Arafat reference.
PPS: Brett Lee is an Indian who happens to play for Australia, as with our ownership of the game itself on similar lines  Smile Nice dude, my favourite Aussie player, probably the only one in the current team I like.
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:37 am



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 13):
PPS: Brett Lee is an Indian who happens to play for Australia

Could be. But even before Bing, there was Waugh S.

Arafat was supposed never to have passed up an opportunity to pass up an opportunity. The same applies to the UK over Europe and arguably for all to long to India post Independence. But we can agree that matters are different now. I would like to visit again. Maybe this time the mine would not be struggling with an E European one way longwall unit that was at least two stages out of date and maybe the opencut would not have overburden removal by baskets on heads. An Indian company is now mining in our district and AFAIK, it is pretty modern so things have changed.

You need to visit BB so you can visit Oak Flats and duly pay homage??
 
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OA260
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:26 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
Pakis

Pakistani's  Wink , The above you quoted can land yourself in alot of trouble in many Western countries as it is considered a racist derogatory word.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:38 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 9):
Take away India and you have a bunch of small countries with UK+Australia running the show, minus the dynamism of having one of the fastest growing big economies within.

So Canada and South Africa are small countries?
 
GDB
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:49 pm

The UK armed forces have plenty of Commonwealth service people, nothing new there.
Notably from Fiji, South Africa, the Caribbean (where 2004 Victoria Cross winner Johnson Beharry came from), Australia and New Zealand.
While the Republic Of Ireland is not part of the Commonwealth, they too have long had it's citizens in the UK forces.

And Pakistan too, one of whom was killed in Afghanistan, making Barf Bag's crack somewhat unpleasant.
Big surprise.

Then there are those descended from Commonwealth immigrants, from the Indian Subcontinent, the Caribbean, Africa.
Though they are of course, British citizens, they are still part of the Commonwealth by descent.

Making the recent use of the BNP of UK military heritage symbols, typically offensive and stupid.
No surprise today that some senior former military figures have attacked them, BNP leader Nick Griffin's response was revealing, citing the Nazi war criminals executed after WW2, he tried to compare those attacking him to them, well maybe he would, since he was in the past peddled Holocaust Denial and of course, him and many of his members think the wrong side lost WW2.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:24 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
Arafat was supposed never to have passed up an opportunity to pass up an opportunity.

 bigthumbsup  I never quite understood why we pandered to the fool.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
You need to visit BB so you can visit Oak Flats and duly pay homage??

Probably unnecessary. He visits India several times a year. Never quite saw Tugga in the same way though. I respect his charitable work, but didn't see him nearly as approachable as Lee. Besides got into that needless confrontation with Ganguly  Wink

Interesting that the C'wealth is little more than a source of RA manpower now. Just underlines its irrelevance from an Indian perspective.
 
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OA260
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:18 pm



Quoting BarfBag (Reply 18):
Just underlines its irrelevance from an Indian perspective.

You really need to educate yourself on the Commonwealth then to see why it was set up in the first place and what India actually DID gain from it .  Wink
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:12 pm

Indian Troops marching alongside the Pak troops fighting the Taliban........a reality if achieved will change the face of the subcontinent in a good way.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:19 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 20):
Indian Troops marching alongside the Pak troops fighting the Taliban........a reality if achieved will change the face of the subcontinent in a good way.

Likely true. At least it would be a change. So it must have a 50 50 chance at least of being better.

OA260, I understand from confidential briefings that it is the existence of the Commonwealth that has caused the recent decline of Sharma's bowling skills.
 
BarfBag
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:27 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 21):
OA260, I understand from confidential briefings that it is the existence of the Commonwealth that has caused the recent decline of Sharma's bowling skills.

Oh absolutely! Did you read all the missives from FakeIPLPlayer during IPL2 in South Africa ? I didn't know our cricketers were a bunch of debauched hedonistic bohemians! Really Big grin
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:16 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 21):
OA260, I understand from confidential briefings that it is the existence of the Commonwealth that has caused the recent decline of Sharma's bowling skills.

I was wondering why too  Smile

On the topic....If Pak looses to the Taliban.....get ready to see US & Indian troops in Islamabad/Lahore.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:36 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):
On the topic....If Pak looses to the Taliban.....get ready to see US & Indian troops in Islamabad/Lahore.

I would love to see the plans to take over the Pak nukes and I wonder if the US and the Indian plans have been er, um "coordinated"!! Lastly of course, I would be happier knowing they would succeed as the way things are going, they might be needed. Wonder if the Iranians have a role too.  duck 

I do like the way the problem is now called AfPak - sounds more like a type of treaty than a couple of wars. Especially if your mind mis-spells it as AfPac making it Africa-Pacific??
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:57 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 24):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):
On the topic....If Pak looses to the Taliban.....get ready to see US & Indian troops in Islamabad/Lahore.

I would love to see the plans to take over the Pak nukes and I wonder if the US and the Indian plans have been er, um "coordinated"!! Lastly of course, I would be happier knowing they would succeed as the way things are going, they might be needed. Wonder if the Iranians have a role too. duck

I do like the way the problem is now called AfPak - sounds more like a type of treaty than a couple of wars. Especially if your mind mis-spells it as AfPac making it Africa-Pacific??

I´m quite sure that the Russians and Chinese would be involved as well, since none of them would like the idea of having Chechen or Uighur militants armed with nukes.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
baroque
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:02 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 25):
I´m quite sure that the Russians and Chinese would be involved as well, since none of them would like the idea of having Chechen or Uighur militants armed with nukes.

True. You never know, some good could even come out of this shambles, although that is too close to adopting a Rumsfeldian attitude to adversity than I prefer!!  eek 

A propos of which there are just too many unknown unknowns for my preference.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:33 am

I wonder how the local Pak citizen is feeling about this mess.constant blasts & a threat of loosing to terror.

Pity these terror organisations are still not eliminated in todays world.If all countries decide to fight terror & not use it as a weapon to fight neighbours....Peace will prevail.

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Indians Joining British Army To Fight Taliban

Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:25 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
Radicalizing the Pashtuns was not a good idea. Now whose idea was that?

True words, true words. It will take time and new tactics to deal with the Pashtuns. But we have no choice. However we often talk so much about Pastuns that we tend to forget another people. The balochs, its in the Quetta region, of Balochistan that most people assume the leading Talibans and al qaeda people are hiding. Balochistan is populated with both pastuns and balochs.
But more interesting, what are the stupid people running the wests intelligence services doing right now. Arming the Balochs, giving them plenty of cash and explosives and military trainingso that they can cause trouble in Iran... Part of them live in Iran and part in Pakistan and the ones in Iran are not happy under Shia rule.
Anyone surprised when the Balochs turn out as radicalised and angry as the Taliban in ten years time?

Indians joining the British army isnt anything new. Constant flow of Indians and has been so for the last 40 years. Just like someone else said, Fijians are very common in the British Army as well. look at the number of Fijians that have fallen in Iraq wearing a British uniform. Its reached two digits.
Just north of India we have the Gurkhas and they still serve in the British Army.
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