futurepilot16
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Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:14 am

I absolutely agree with the White house 100% for going on the offensive against the so-called "News Network" Fox. It's so disgusting to sit back and listen to them pushing this GOP, ultra conservative agenda, then when they get accused of not being an actual news source, their feelings get hurt, and they call the accusations "childish" and "outrageous". I think it's safe to say that watching fox news is more like watching VH1 than watching BBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33376836/ns/politics-white_house/

Discuss.
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:21 am

If Fox is not an actual news source, what is?

CNN?  rotfl 

MSNBC?  rotfl 

There is no such thing as an "unbiased source" of news. There just isn't.

It's nothing more than political rumbling...if you can't beat 'em, belittle 'em...
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TheGov
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:34 am

I think the fact that you are referencing MSNBC says a lot. As I see it, Fox is on one end of the political spectrum while MSNBC is on the other end. Just look at Keith Olbermann. I've always said that Bush could rescue an old lady from a burning house and Keith would say that he set the fire just to prove he could save someone. But Obama, on the other hand, could steal the same old lady's wallet and Keith would praise him for teaching her about redistribution of wealth.

So for me, the White House should beat a retreat and let the public decide who and what to believe. The more the White House talks about Fox, the more attention Fox gets.
Always a pallbearer, never a corpse.
 
L-188
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:54 am

Attacking Fox is one of the dumbest things that the White House could do.

Frankly it goes to show what a propaganda driven machine the Obama press corp is.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:06 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
I absolutely agree with the White house 100% for going on the offensive against the so-called "News Network" Fox

Are you for real? Your use of an MSNBC story is like saying "the New York Yankees Suck." Source: www.bostonredsocks.com

I mean how blind are you? I find it amazing that you have no problem with the WH attempting to silence a media outlet they don't agree with. Have you ever heard of such people as Castro? Chavez? Kim Jong-il? They do the same thing.

Have you ever heard of Bush trying to shut up CNN? How about Clinton doing the same? Never. But Obama comes along and tries his best to quell his opponents that have every right to the freedom of speech and the press.

And you agree with it. You can call Fox news VH1 all you want, it's your right, and it's your right not to watch it. But an attempt to shut it down shows that they are afraid of it for a reason.

If Fox is nothing more than just a bunch of political hacks, then as the party in charge of EVERYTHING but the Supreme Court (for now) can just choose to ignore them and work on their plans to transform this country. Instead, they choose to fight a "war" trying to suppress free speech and press.

And, yes, once again, you agree with that.
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fr8mech
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:14 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
I absolutely agree with the White house 100% for going on the offensive against the so-called "News Network" Fox.

Why? Because Fox News disagrees with your point-of-view. But CNN, MSNBC and the others all see the world the way you do, so they're OK?

Unfortunately, news sservices are biased. It's just the way it is. It has always been this way. I was rather surprised as I read "Ben Franklin: An American Life", by Walter Isaacson, as to how biased the media has always been. And how vitriolic politics has always been. Mud-slinging was not invented in the 20th or 21st centuries.

You know how The White House could counter Fox News? By presenting the truth. But guess what? They're not willing, because, in my humble opinion, that's the last thing The White House wants out there.

I wonder who else is on Obama's enemies list.
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NIKV69
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:17 am



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 1):
If Fox is not an actual news source, what is?

CNN?

MSNBC?

I almost puked when Axelrod says FOX is just an agency that has a point of view. (obviously a Republican one)

I guess he doesn't watch his own cheerleaders. I mean if CNN isn't pro Obama I am Sugar Ray Leonard. Give me break already. The country is turning on the WH not because of the FOX but because you are a bunch of idiots that are failing big time and it has nothing to do with FOX or anybody else.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:27 am



Quoting TheGov (Reply 2):
I think the fact that you are referencing MSNBC says a lot.

I'm not refferencing anything. I was actually on media matters ( which is a completely left wing advocacy website. They don't masquerade as a news channel), and I was reading an article that was dicussing this issue. I just so happened to find this article and toss it in there.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
Are you for real? Your use of an MSNBC story is like saying "the New York Yankees Suck." Source: www.bostonredsocks.com

Again i'm not using the story, I just threw it in there because I just happened to see it on msnbc. The fact is it's been well known that they are news channel advocating for conservatives, and that's fair, it's more than completely fair. But I can't stand it when they claim "WE'RE FAIR AND BALANCED" because that is completely untrue. You know it, and I know it. If they advertise themselves as conservative media, I wouldn't care one bit, but the reason why I as well as other Liberals are constantly attacking fox news is because they claim they're a news channel, which is pushing it in opinion.

To say they are being attacked by Obama because they don't agree with his policies are an understatement. We've seen instances where they actually advocate and advertise for certain right wing rallies (see Glenn Beck and 9/12 rallies). They skew the news they recieve and report it how they want because that's they're agenda.
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seb146
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:31 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 3):
Frankly it goes to show what a propaganda driven machine the Obama press corp is.

So, the pot calling the kettle black is.... what? Bad? Are we just supposed to keep up the charade that FOX is a real and credible news source? After all these years of Bush praising from them, why can't something like this be said?

Like I have been saying all along: The main reason I have a huge problem with FOX is they say they are fair and balance, but they are all about abolishing the Democratic party! How the hell is that "fair and balanced?" Because they give face time to left wingers? Because they have left wingers on the shows, even thought they don't allow them to say anything? Fair and balanced, my eye. Let the WH call a spade a spade, for pete's sake.
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Zone1
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:01 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
They skew the news they recieve and report it how they want because that's they're agenda.

That may be true and can be debated, but it's not the job of the White House to call them out on it. The job of the White House is to make sure the stimulus is working and the such. They have more important things to do. Instead of whining why doesn't the White House just make available more people for interview on Fox News Sunday or something? Sitting back and whining about things doesn't help their position.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:45 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
The fact is it's been well known that they are news channel advocating for conservatives, and that's fair, it's more than completely fair. But I can't stand it when they claim "WE'RE FAIR AND BALANCED" because that is completely untrue.

I find opposing viewpoints far more often on Fox New programs than on their competitors. I don't watch Olbermann very often, but I can't remember when he had a conservative on and debate with him. Sure, Fox leans right, but they at least acknowledge that some people disagree and allow them to air their opinions.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 8):
The main reason I have a huge problem with FOX is they say they are fair and balance, but they are all about abolishing the Democratic party! How the hell is that "fair and balanced?"

 redflag  I want a quote for that. Sourced.

Even the left-leaning press is saying that the Obama administration has gone off its rocker on this issue.

Here's one from The Nation - hardly a bastion of conservatism:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/483551/whiner_in_chief

Quote:
Whiner-in-Chief
posted by John Nichols on 10/12/2009 @ 8:08pm


The Obama administration really needs to get over itself.

First, the president and his aides go to war with Fox News because the network maintains a generally anti-Obama slant.

Then, an anonymous administration aide attacks bloggers for failing to maintain a sufficiently pro-Obama slant.

These are not disconnected developments.

You have the former press secretaries of Clinton and Carter saying "Oh, God what a fool".

http://www.gallup.com/poll/123365/Am...Remain-Distrusting-News-Media.aspx

You have the well-established fact that most of the media is liberal and that Fox is the single right-of center voice on TV, and the Obama administration has given themselves the mission of silencing such opposition. This is all punishment of course for having broken the ACORN story and exposed the various self-avowed communists and radicals in the administration. Gosh - I thought that was the press's job - to keep an eye on our politicians.

And of course, MSNBC would never call Bush a fascist...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYmS5ylCrk
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WarRI1
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:22 am

I do not think the White House should have spoken up like it did either, there are so many ways to use surrogates and to stay out of the mess directly. Now as far as Fox being fair and balanced, NOT SO you could notice. I have no problem with what they show or say, but to use that claim is ridiculous. I watched a little the other night, it was so skewed to the right, it would be like saying that Pravda was Democratic during the USSR days, or even today.
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futurepilot16
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:22 am



Quoting Zone1 (Reply 9):
Sitting back and whining about things doesn't help their position.

You're right, but just how long can they sit back and watch as fox news unfairly attacks and attacks the president and his policies from their skewed point of view? As a lot of people on A-Net have stated, fox's viewers are increasing by the weeks and that's just gonna give them more motivation to skew the news even more. Some of these attacks obviously are fair, but some make absolutely no sense and are used as a scare tactic against the democratic party.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
This is all punishment of course for having broken the ACORN story and exposed the various self-avowed communists and radicals in the administration.

How come fox never breaks any other curruption in the gov't? Oh that's right, they only latch on to stories that hurt the image of the Obama admin. Acorn? they latched on to that and rode it for about six months, and they've made up their mind that they'll go after everyone in the Obama admin (Beck said it). If they've ever said a swear word in the past or has made a mistake any one of us as humans has made, they'll use it against them and they will drive that point home. Now, does that sound like a news channel, or a propoganda news source?
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
BMI727
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:39 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
Now, does that sound like a news channel, or a propoganda news source?

That sounds like what the liberal media did when Bush was in office. It isn't like Obama doesn't have other media to proselytize for him.
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baroque
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:08 am

I was in a certain S American city recently and the hotel had both CNN and Fox. I got the impression that if I wanted actual information I had best try CNN, if I wanted to hear folk shouting, then Fox would do just fine. I watched enough just to know what it is that fires the Fox supporters on a.net. In a word, it seems to be hatred - sui generis at that.

However critics of the Fox saga might be best leaving it to self destruct. I suspect News Ltd must be a great deal closer to the bone than its Emperor cares to admit. Why else would he pick China to make a speech stating that News will charge for Web content. After he had been apprised of how much competition he faces in the English language from the BEEB and the ABC, he had recast from charging for everything to charging for the extras - as if anyone will want News corp extras!!!

There were two media dynasties in Aus. Packer and Murdoch. The Packer one decided to go into betting and is busy losing its shirt (congratulations to Las Vegas for this service to mankind) and I wonder if the Murdoch one is not close to self destructing. It has tried to do this before but struggled through, eventually the Murdoch bets will lose. No, you are correct, I have never forgiven Murdoch's father for opposing the appointment of Monash to command the Australian force in France in WWI - if you are going to hold a grudge, you might as well make it a good one.
 
Mir
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:25 am

When you start claiming that setbacks for Obama are "victories for Fox Nation", you've pretty much lost your status as a proper news organization. So it's hard for me to defend Fox, who is leading the ever-continuing downward spiral of news coverage. Of course, MSNBC is tripping over themselves in an effort to follow Fox, and CNN would like to follow but really can't. So they're hardly blameless.

So no, the White House isn't wrong for calling out Fox, but I'm not convinced that it's really the best course of action. It's very troubling, because the proper functioning of the political system depends on an accurate and impartial media, and we're rapidly losing ours.

-Mir
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herctech
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:35 am

There are a lot of good points from both sides on this, I personally think it is a bad idea for government to come out a criticize the media in such a way.

But lets face it, both FOX and MSNBC are just as bad as one another, only from opposite sides of the political spectrum, and I dont think there is a true middle ground, in the United States anyway. I suppose that the best way to get a more balanced approach to political events(federally mostly) is to go to a credible outside source, the BBC for example. As for more opinionated journalism, well thats where the Fox's and MSNBC's fall in.

I must take issue with this quote though:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
I mean how blind are you? I find it amazing that you have no problem with the WH attempting to silence a media outlet they don't agree with. Have you ever heard of such people as Castro? Chavez? Kim Jong-il? They do the same thing.

Uh, maybe its time to take off that tinfoil hat of yours, the WH criticized FOX because they disagree with their stance and attacks(including some very personal ones) on the government. Please, please explain to me how this is some form of censure, or even an outright attempt to silence or shut down this media outlet. Its a criticism, not the best idea to do it(in my opinion), but that is all it is, a CRITICISM!!

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 4):
Are you for real?

Thats a good question, maybe you should consider it
 
baroque
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:37 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
So no, the White House isn't wrong for calling out Fox, but I'm not convinced that it's really the best course of action. It's very troubling, because the proper functioning of the political system depends on an accurate and impartial media, and we're rapidly losing ours.

But you do have the fairly admirable PBS - even if it is a little tainted by having to get ad revenue. Still streets ahead.

One recent attack from the "free" press is to demand that our ABC publish salaries of ABC presenters. The ABC is refusing on the grounds that it does not wish to make poaching its staff easier. Here we see the "commercial" media as being rather desperate. Maybe the US will prove to be different, but look at the strife in your main line newspapers, so likely the TV is under stress too. Relax and enjoy their pain would be one strategy???
 
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:47 am



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 1):
There is no such thing as an "unbiased source" of news. There just isn't.

It's nothing more than political rumbling...if you can't beat 'em, belittle 'em...

Absolutely agree. Fox is undoubtedly conservative and just about ever other network is liberal. We accept that.
 
Mir
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:48 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 17):
But you do have the fairly admirable PBS - even if it is a little tainted by having to get ad revenue. Still streets ahead.

PBS does not have to get ad revenue - they do have underwriting spots, but those aren't really the same as ads.

They also get perceived as having a liberal bias, though they're nowhere near the realm of MSNBC. But the one thing you can't deny about them is that you won't really find any of the sensationalism that you will find on the cable "news" channels.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
baroque
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:16 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
But the one thing you can't deny about them is that you won't really find any of the sensationalism that you will find on the cable "news" channels.

If you have Aus ABC no ad purity in front of you every day (and night) even the PBS "underwriters" come across as ads. I did say "a little tainted" more to cover myself when someone other than you Mir decided to tell me they too have ads (the bit I like on Lehrer is "People like you"). The other bit that is great is the usually excellent segments we get when you guys go off to your pledge sessions. For some reason, they are the best segments on the program, you just never know what they will be, or at least here you do not!! But if you want NEWS, then Lehrer seems a heck of an advance on most other US things around. With CNN there are headlines, repeated, repeated, repeated, repeated. Just as the tiems starts on something beyond the froth "we cross now to..." Those programs are made for gnats I fear, and in the case of Fox, savage gnats with a bad attitude.

What you poor folk don't generally know is how cut the items you get can be. Our more than slightly tainted by ads but nevertheless totally admirable SBS news shows many of the items BUT IN FULL (or at least a great deal more full) and commonly you get a very different impression. One way and another, the US is badly served for news. And it shows. Here even the commercial TV has to watch its Ps and Qs because just a flick away is some real news on ABC or SBS. Even then they are pretty awful. And ABC has its sins too. Though it also runs Media Watch that tries to keep everyone at least accountable.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/

The current program available on that link, should give some pause. Mark Scott, head of ABC think the current media conglomerates are in trouble. Who am I to argue with him. Worth a watch.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:52 am

All Presidential Administrations have tried to control the news media in various ways to sustain power or to influence the public as to there views. Some will develop more with those networks more willing to support them or get their view out, Fox News did so by supporting Pres. Bush, MSNBC with Obama. The FOX News clearly is not supporting Obama and Democrats, seeing more revenue from presenting news with a view toward the 30% of Americans who are strong Republicans and 10% who are Republican leaning.

The major news channels, MSNBC, FOX and CNN, all have their biases they have developed over the last decade in part to attract the revenue from viewers. I wish they would go back to real news, without strong 'personalities'. We get too much of personal opinions and a perverse form of 'entertainment' and not real information we as citizens need to influence our political leaders. Instead of following 'baloon boy' or a 'missing white woman' (ie: local crimes), we need time devoted in detail to how the economy is affecting children and women or really the public at large. We need detailed coverage of what the various health care proposals and not of wingnuts at town halls who are shouting down politicians as didn't get accurate and unbiased information. We need to see a lot more coverage of our military activities in Iraq and Afganistan. We need more moderates and centerists in our media and getting attention and not extrmeists on either side.

Still, any Presidential Administration must realize they cannot or should not try to force any news media to give them favorably biased attention as it will just backfire and just keep the current biases of those channels.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:10 am



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
I absolutely agree with the White house 100% for going on the offensive against the so-called "News Network" Fox.

I categorically disagree. Not only does White House whining legitimize the validity of Fox's position in the market, it gives them unprecedented ability to justify themselves to their audience and drive revenues ever higher. Remember: the more these talking heads make, the bigger their egos get, and the farther they push the limits. Just look at that fathead on the radio with the $400 million contract.  Yeah sure

Why would they even want to do that? More proof that the advisers at Team Obama are outright idiots barely crawling through their political infancy.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
It's so disgusting to sit back and listen to them pushing this GOP, ultra conservative agenda, then when they get accused of not being an actual news source, their feelings get hurt, and they call the accusations "childish" and "outrageous".

Their feelings are not hurt. That's more fodder for people like you to read and react to, so their ratings will go up the next time Beck or someone else blows their top. And while FOX coverage is indeed largely disgusting, it's no worse or better than the claptrap on MSNBC. One White House Press Secretary should be enough without needing an entire network to sit on the guy's back. All of it is disgusting, including your one-sided Olbermannesque take on the issue.

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
losing

Losing?? Long ago lost, good sir. And there's pretty much no turning back now with the revenues all this drivel generates.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Revelation
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:34 pm

The article had an interesting quote:

Quote:
"This is a White House engaging in its own version of the media enemies list," Rove said.

Good old Karl Rove, finding the ugliest spin as quickly as possible.

There is a difference between not particularly caring for someone, and treating someone as an enemy.

Good old polarized politics, getting worse by the day, thanks to CNN, MSNBC, FOX, et al.

I have no time for networks that show talking heads screaming at each other.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:40 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
How come fox never breaks any other curruption in the gov't?

Could it be because there is only one government at a time? And even you have to admit that we have never had an administration bring in this many radicals or near-radicals ever before - of course it's going to be a field day.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
and they've made up their mind that they'll go after everyone in the Obama admin (Beck said it).

You have a source? I watch Beck pretty often, and have never heard him say this.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
If they've ever said a swear word in the past or has made a mistake any one of us as humans has made, they'll use it against them and they will drive that point home.

Being a fervent admirer of Mao, Chavez, Castro and Marx when in your 40s or 50s hardly qualifies as a youthful indiscretion. It indicates someone we don't want anywhere near the White House.

Speaking of Beck, you know of his phoneline to the white house press office, right? Excellent move for him.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
I was in a certain S American city recently and the hotel had both CNN and Fox. I got the impression that if I wanted actual information I had best try CNN, if I wanted to hear folk shouting, then Fox would do just fine. I watched enough just to know what it is that fires the Fox supporters on a.net. In a word, it seems to be hatred - sui generis at that.

Shouting sometimes erupts when you have two disagreeing points of view. So the argument that Fox simply spouts one side of the story goes out the window right there.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:46 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 23):
The article had an interesting quote:

Quote:
"This is a White House engaging in its own version of the media enemies list," Rove said.

Good old Karl Rove, finding the ugliest spin as quickly as possible.

It's hardly 'spin' - that's what they are doing.

By the way, Check the ratings. Fox News creams the competition - in many cases getting more viewers than all of them combined. It's not just conservatives watching Fox - independents are increasingly involved.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/19...y-october-16-2009/30899#more-30899
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Falcon84
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:48 pm



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 1):
There is no such thing as an "unbiased source" of news. There just isn't.

You are correct to a point. But FOX isn't just "biased". It is practically a PR and news arm of the GOP these days. I don't see any other network nearly as one-sided as FOX. MSNBC comes the closest, but even they aren't in the realm of FOX.

On one hand, the WH should probably just ignore them, but on the other, they distort what is going on so badly that someone has to set the record straight. All our friends on the right cry when the other news networks do that, so perhaps it's appropriate that the WH counter the propoganda coming from Fox, and, by extension, the GOP.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 12):
How come fox never breaks any other curruption in the gov't?

Could it be because there is only one government at a time?

So, Charles, where were they the previous 8 years, when there was a GOP administraiton? Burying their head in the sand? That seems to be the case.
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Dreadnought
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:00 pm

Where have you been Falcon?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
On one hand, the WH should probably just ignore them, but on the other, they distort what is going on so badly that someone has to set the record straight

Then why don't they come on the shows and correct the record? Beck even installed a special phone on the set and invited the White House to call in their corrections at any time. Their silence is deafening.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
So, Charles, where were they the previous 8 years, when there was a GOP administraiton? Burying their head in the sand? That seems to be the case.

I seem to recall plenty of criticism.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:04 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
I seem to recall plenty of criticism.

I seem to recall not much myself, with the little I can stand to watch of FOX.
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:26 pm

It is not only wrong, but unconstitutional for an administration to control the press. It makes Obama look more like Chevez than Clinton. Political opposition is the roots our country has grown on. It is one thing to dispute what is said in the news media, it is another to try to control them.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ontrolled-media-coverage-campaign/
 
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:28 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
It's hardly 'spin' - that's what they are doing.

In your opinion...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
By the way, Check the ratings. Fox News creams the competition

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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:41 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
Shouting sometimes erupts when you have two disagreeing points of view. So the argument that Fox simply spouts one side of the story goes out the window right there.

The "standard" setting for your two sided story seemed from a short period of observation to be one Afro-American being shouted down by three other panellists AND the humorously styled moderator. Sheesh. You need to get out to find out what can be done with presenting more than one point of view.
 
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:54 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 31):

The "standard" setting for your two sided story seemed from a short period of observation to be one Afro-American being shouted down by three other panellists AND the humorously styled moderator.



I don't suppose you are talking about the O'Reilly show where one black guest told the other black guest to "get back on the porch" because he didn't tow the democratic talking points (the victim in this case was Juan Williams, who is very centrist)?
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:07 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):

I don't suppose you are talking about the O'Reilly show where one black guest told the other black guest to "get back on the porch" because he didn't tow the democratic talking points (the victim in this case was Juan Williams, who is very centrist)?

Dunno, they were all shouting at each other. Could easily be, but  confused   covereyes   crying   yawn   yuck   tombstone 
 
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:08 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 14):
I was in a certain S American city recently and the hotel had both CNN and Fox. I got the impression that if I wanted actual information I had best try CNN, if I wanted to hear folk shouting, then Fox would do just fine. I watched enough just to know what it is that fires the Fox supporters on a.net. In a word, it seems to be hatred - sui generis at that.

Guess you turned off the TV right before Ed, Matthews, Keith and Rachel came on. You want to see some hatred. Watch them.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
You are correct to a point. But FOX isn't just "biased". It is practically a PR and news arm of the GOP these days. I don't see any other network nearly as one-sided as FOX. MSNBC comes the closest, but even they aren't in the realm of FOX.

Please, CNN was so pro Obama during the election it wanted to make me vomit. Though I will admit MSNBC has taken over since the health care bill started to go down the toilet now they are on the major attack to try to save it.
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:23 pm

Ok, folks, let's do WH vs FOX, quoting from the thread starter:

WH:

Quote:
White House communications director Anita Dunn said Fox News operates "almost as either the research arm or the communications arm of the Republican Party."



Quote:
Rahm Emanuel, President Barack Obama's chief of staff, said, "It is not a news organization so much as it has a perspective."



Quote:
Appearing on ABC television's "This Week," senior Obama adviser David Axelrod said Fox News shouldn't be treated as a news organization. "And the bigger thing is that other news organizations, like yours, ought not to treat them that way, and we're not going to treat them that way," he said. "You know, I'm not concerned. Mr. Murdoch has a talent for making money, and I understand that their programming is geared toward making money," Axelrod said. "The only argument Anita was making is that they're not really a news station. ... It's not just their commentators, but a lot of their news programming. It's really not news. It's pushing a point of view."

FOX:

Quote:
Fox News executive Michael Clemente on Sunday accused the White House of continuing to "declare war on a news organization"



Quote:
Karl Rove, a Fox News contributor and former White House adviser to President George W. Bush, said the Obama administration is trying to demonize Fox News for asking questions officials do not like. He compared Obama's approach to that of President Richard Nixon, who included journalists on an "enemies list."

In summary:

WH: Fox isn't a news organization, it's one-sided, and it is more about making a buck than delivering news

FOX: They've declared WAR! We're on the ENEMIES LIST!

Kind of proves the point, no?
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:30 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22):
I categorically disagree. Not only does White House whining legitimize the validity of Fox's position in the market, it gives them unprecedented ability to justify themselves to their audience and drive revenues ever higher. Remember: the more these talking heads make, the bigger their egos get, and the farther they push the limits. Just look at that fathead on the radio with the $400 million contract.

That's a good point. I never thought of that. Maybe all this poking by fox news is just to get the W/H to respond, because Glenn Beck has already come out and said that Obama is attacking fox news and it won't be long before he attacks other news networks that don't like him, which is completely false.

I don't think the should increase the attacks and name callling any more, but rather take a hard line stance on fox. Send out some representatives of the admin and debate hardcore with them to show fox's lying ways, there's no way fox could win. If I sit for 15 minutes and watch a fox show, my ears start to bleed because of all the misinformation. Obama needs to address this issue and stop running away from fox like a scared schoolboy, because it shows immense cowardice on his part. His excuse of not wanting to increase their ratings is rediculous, he needs to face them a refute all the lies brought on by their ability to skew the news.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
Beck even installed a special phone on the set and invited the White House to call in their corrections at any time. Their silence is deafening.

And that was the white house's fault, Obama has not responded well to Fox News and now they're going after him even harder. As I said, they need to send some hard line debators after fox, stop the name calling because they'll just use it as more ammo.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
It is not only wrong, but unconstitutional for an administration to control the press. It makes Obama look more like Chevez than Clinton. Political opposition is the roots our country has grown on. It is one thing to dispute what is said in the news media, it is another to try to control them.

Tell me he's the only one to do that  no  .
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:42 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 30):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
It's hardly 'spin' - that's what they are doing.

In your opinion...

Apparently it is the Obama WH opinion, too, as they have said they control the media.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 1):
There is no such thing as an "unbiased source" of news. There just isn't.

You are correct to a point. But FOX isn't just "biased". It is practically a PR and news arm of the GOP these days. I don't see any other network nearly as one-sided as FOX. MSNBC comes the closest, but even they aren't in the realm of FOX.



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Please, CNN was so pro Obama during the election it wanted to make me vomit. Though I will admit MSNBC has taken over since the health care bill started to go down the toilet now they are on the major attack to try to save it.

In addition to CNN and MSNBC, there is also ABC (who has an office in the WH), NBC (also has a WH office), CBS, and many overseas "news" outlets, too.

A government who controls the news media is dangerous. Just ask Venezuela.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
In summary:

WH: Fox isn't a news organization, it's one-sided, and it is more about making a buck than delivering news

FOX: They've declared WAR! We're on the ENEMIES LIST!

Kind of proves the point, no?

Yes, I think it does.

The big problem for the WH is the more they critisize FoxNews, and push CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC, the more people will watch FoxNews and fewer watching the others. Americans like to get all views on a subject, not just from the "official" mouth pieces, but also from the "official" opposition. The WH has now made FoxNews the "official" opposition. FoxNews didn't do it.
 
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:53 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 37):
The big problem for the WH is the more they critisize FoxNews, and push CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC, the more people will watch FoxNews and fewer watching the others.

And if the WH is correct, those who turn on Fox will see that Fox is not a news channel, it's an entertainment channel.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 37):
The WH has now made FoxNews the "official" opposition. FoxNews didn't do it.

It's been the de-facto opposition anyway, so why not call them out on it?
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:17 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
CNN was so pro Obama during the election it wanted to make me vomit.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
but unconstitutional for an administration to control the press. It makes Obama look more like Chevez than Clinton. Political opposition is the roots our country has grown on.

I find it hilarious that the right wing supporters are so quick to defend FOX and attack CNN and MSNBC. It is fine for one side, but not for the other. Then, the left (read: anyone disagreeing with the GOP) are all called hypocrites among other names.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
You have the well-established fact that most of the media is liberal

Well, no. That is a popular myth among the right-wing. NYT has *some* left leaning writers, which are quoted all the time by the right to prove the media is controlled by "liberals." MSNBC has never pulled any punches about which side it supports. Who else? FOX, smaller newspapers and most of talk radio? Nope.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
the Obama administration has given themselves the mission of silencing such opposition.

Because a WH spokesman was telling the world what we all already know? That FOX is a bastion of the GOP?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
I thought that was the press's job - to keep an eye on our politicians.

Yet, during the Bush Administration, the "liberal" press needed to keep silent and just support the president, as we were all told to do. But, when we call the right out on that, we, in the opposition, are called hypocrites on other issues so the original issue is never delt with.
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:38 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
This is all punishment of course for having broken the ACORN story

The ACORN story is a legitimate one. However when Fox tries to portray themselves as "fair and balanced" and just doing their jobs I say hooey. Where were they when Halliburton, Dick Cheney's former company, was getting no bid contracts? I've seen entire half hour segments on Fox devoted to ACORN yet don't recall that sort of attention cast on Halliburton.
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:36 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 39):

Well, no. That is a popular myth among the right-wing. NYT has *some* left leaning writers, which are quoted all the time by the right to prove the media is controlled by "liberals." MSNBC has never pulled any punches about which side it supports. Who else? FOX, smaller newspapers and most of talk radio? Nope.

Let's back that up. From Pew Reasearch:

http://people-press.org/report/543/



Hell, Fox gets more favorable ratings from Democrats than it gets unfavorable ones. In fact, when you reverse the slant, they are nearly a mirror image of CNN, which doesn't get nearly the horrible propaganda thrown at it that Fox does.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 39):

Because a WH spokesman was telling the world what we all already know? That FOX is a bastion of the GOP?

If that's all they would say, fine. But on top of that they are going on record as saying that they will refuse all interview requests at least until the end of the year. That is blacklisting.

Of course they are free to do this. There is no requirement that Obama has to speak to all the networks. But it does reinforce the idea that Obama and the folks that surround them are petty and vindictive, and cannot cope with a press that is anything but fawning over them.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 39):
Yet, during the Bush Administration, the "liberal" press needed to keep silent and just support the president, as we were all told to do.

And did they? No. Bush was attacked more vigorously than any president in recent in the past century. But did he blacklist any of them? No.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
Where were they when Halliburton, Dick Cheney's former company, was getting no bid contracts?

I am no fan of no-bid contracts, but I am curious if you can name a single company that could have feasibly done the job that Halliburton took on. The reason for the no-bid contract was that they needed a huge job tackled immediately. What other solutions were there?
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:41 pm



Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
The ACORN story is a legitimate one.

Then where were the likes of th NYT, WP, any of the major networks? Fox didn't even break this story with its own reporters, it was broken by a film producer and a couple of aspiring jounalists. Fox picked up their film and ran with it. Even once the story had broken where were the other major news orginizations? They remained, for the most part, silent, or questioning of the films truthfulness.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
Where were they when Halliburton, Dick Cheney's former company, was getting no bid contracts?

Again, name a company, any company, that had the resources and could do what Halliburton/KBR was in a position to do in the time frame that was requested. Just one company is all I have ever asked for and nothing but silence follows.


The numbers speak for themselves. Fox's veiwership is up 11% since the beginning of the year and it remains the most watched cable news channel of them all. Even the Presidents usual supporters on the Sunday talking head shows expressed surprise at the White House policy and questioned its rationale. Shades of Dick Nixon saying the NYT is "cut off, no more, nothing" and how well that worked for him.
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:02 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 36):
Maybe all this poking by fox news is just to get the W/H to respond, because Glenn Beck has already come out and said that Obama is attacking fox news and it won't be long before he attacks other news networks that don't like him, which is completely false.

You know this how?

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 36):
I don't think the should increase the attacks and name callling any more, but rather take a hard line stance on fox. Send out some representatives of the admin and debate hardcore with them to show fox's lying ways, there's no way fox could win.

Why doesn't Obama just take is teleprompter and do it himself?

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 36):
If I sit for 15 minutes and watch a fox show, my ears start to bleed because of all the misinformation.

That sounds like a serious medical condition. I hope you are seeing a doctor for it, or are you waiting for government run health care to begine in 2013?

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 36):
Obama needs to address this issue and stop running away from fox like a scared schoolboy, because it shows immense cowardice on his part. His excuse of not wanting to increase their ratings is rediculous, he needs to face them a refute all the lies brought on by their ability to skew the news.

Correct, let's see him do it instead of running out his own talking heads.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 36):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
Beck even installed a special phone on the set and invited the White House to call in their corrections at any time. Their silence is deafening.

And that was the white house's fault, Obama has not responded well to Fox News and now they're going after him even harder.

All they need to do is call..............

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 36):
As I said, they need to send some hard line debators after fox, stop the name calling because they'll just use it as more ammo.

It seems that everyday, the WH, and Democrats in Congress provide enough ammo. You can only shoot so much before you have to clean your gun.

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 36):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
It is not only wrong, but unconstitutional for an administration to control the press. It makes Obama look more like Chevez than Clinton. Political opposition is the roots our country has grown on. It is one thing to dispute what is said in the news media, it is another to try to control them.

Tell me he's the only one to do that .

Actually, Nixon and Johnson did something similar. Did Bush 43, Clinton, Bush 41, Reagan, Carter, or Ford do it? NOPE.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 37):
The big problem for the WH is the more they critisize FoxNews, and push CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, and ABC, the more people will watch FoxNews and fewer watching the others.

And if the WH is correct, those who turn on Fox will see that Fox is not a news channel, it's an entertainment channel.

The "entertainment" then is being provided by our own WH, Congress, and Government. Fox is just reporting it then.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 37):
The WH has now made FoxNews the "official" opposition. FoxNews didn't do it.

It's been the de-facto opposition anyway, so why not call them out on it?

As opposed to the "de-facto" "news" lapdogs the WH has?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 39):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 29):
but unconstitutional for an administration to control the press. It makes Obama look more like Chevez than Clinton. Political opposition is the roots our country has grown on.

I find it hilarious that the right wing supporters are so quick to defend FOX and attack CNN and MSNBC. It is fine for one side, but not for the other. Then, the left (read: anyone disagreeing with the GOP) are all called hypocrites among other names.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 39):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
You have the well-established fact that most of the media is liberal

Well, no. That is a popular myth among the right-wing. NYT has *some* left leaning writers, which are quoted all the time by the right to prove the media is controlled by "liberals."

Oh really? You don't remember the NYT running moveon.org's ad about "General Be-Trayus" (Gen. Petrayos). I don't suppose you also remeber the NYT refusing to run an ad the next day defending Petrayos, do you?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley/1834209,CST-EDT-HUNT20.article

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 39):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
I thought that was the press's job - to keep an eye on our politicians.

Yet, during the Bush Administration, the "liberal" press needed to keep silent and just support the president, as we were all told to do.

Sure they did, they were real silent, weren't they? Perhapos you don't remember this example from 2004, in the middle of the Bush Administration and when he was running for reelection (which he won by some 5M votes over Kerry).

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/cbs-planning-another-anti-bush-hit/

Or perhaps you forgot all about Dan rather's attack on Bush's military service with the TXANG? I suppose you forgot about the forged documents Rather tried to use?

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 40):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
This is all punishment of course for having broken the ACORN story

The ACORN story is a legitimate one.

So is the opposition to stories on national health care, crap and tax, the $1.4T 2009 deficiet that Obama ran up, the $787B stimulus package that has put another 3M Americans out of work, the climbing unemployment rate, the delay on the decision on troop strenght on Afghanistan, while taking time out to make a pitch for the 2016 Olympics, telling the justice dept. not to go after federal laws on MJ when states say they can use it for "medical reasons", the big parties Obama holds in the WH, the take over of the auto and banking industries. Do I need to go on?

BTW, what has he done to shore up the dollar? Oh yeah, borrow more money from China and print more money in Fort Worth.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...UAdYWG5Ysa7CDcGMLMuIZ2xdwD9BEJCEO4

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/ap_on_bi_ge/us_vanishing_jobs

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...6fc2e27bf0b3756.371&show_article=1

Of course he has plenty of time to play basketball..............

http://www.startribune.com/politics/63799357.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0...lays-basketball-at_0_n_170784.html

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBEQqwQwAA#

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/29/956266.aspx

http://www.gooya.us/videos/2008/04/b...obama-plays-basketball-indiana.php

Perhaps after his term is up, he can get an NBA contract?
 
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:07 pm



Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
Quote:
Appearing on ABC television's "This Week," senior Obama adviser David Axelrod said Fox News shouldn't be treated as a news organization. "And the bigger thing is that other news organizations, like yours, ought not to treat them that way, and we're not going to treat them that way," he said.

I think most have missed the worst part. When the WH is urging other news organizations to in effect, boycott Fox, they have gone far, far beyond their bounds. Even left wing radio in San Francisco is calling this a stupid move. Imagine if Bush had done this, the howling would be overwhelming.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 39):

I find it hilarious that the right wing supporters are so quick to defend FOX and attack CNN and MSNBC. It is fine for one side, but not for the other. Then, the left (read: anyone disagreeing with the GOP) are all called hypocrites among other names.

Show us one example of a Republican or even a Democrat president who has ever tried to shut down a news service.....I won't hold my breath.

Now tell us what you would say if Bush had told the rest of the media to boycott MSNBC or CNN, then talk to us about hypocrites.
 
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:25 pm



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 44):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 35):
Quote:
Appearing on ABC television's "This Week," senior Obama adviser David Axelrod said Fox News shouldn't be treated as a news organization. "And the bigger thing is that other news organizations, like yours, ought not to treat them that way, and we're not going to treat them that way," he said.

I think most have missed the worst part. When the WH is urging other news organizations to in effect, boycott Fox, they have gone far, far beyond their bounds.

Better yet, Axelrod's other message was pretty clear: CNN had better not repeat stories that come out of Fox (like the ACORN thing, Van Jones etc), or else it will be shut out as well.

These sort of tactics worked in the old days of limited news networks and newspapers. It won't now however since now news has other ways of getting out (i.e. the Internet). I suspect that the backlash will be huge, the more people get to know it. I know a lot of people who voted for Obama who say that this is nothing like what they expected, and they regret their votes.
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:11 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 43):

Why doesn't Obama just take is teleprompter and do it himself?

Ohhh, that's a great response. Did you make it up yourself or did you steal it from Rush Limbaugh? I'll take the latter.
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:34 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Thread starter):
I absolutely agree with the White house 100% for going on the offensive against the so-called "News Network" Fox.

I do too , I think it shows them for the hallow week miss guided whiners that they are. And it makes me admire the Bush administration for their class . The Bush administration was under constant attack from every media source known too man .. but they did not whine about it. President Bush was gracious and understood the opposition ...even commenting openly about there right to criticize.

This administration is quite the opposite .... whiny ninnies who can not answer criticism ... they only complain and attempt to silence.

I don't care what side you are on ... supporting this attack on Fox news is bad for all of us. Like I have said on here before ... we need MSNBC , CNN , ABC , CBS ,FOX ... we need open lively discussion from every angle .. But your side does not like that do they ? That's because your side is wrong ...and will be swept out of power soon and they know it...they are terrified and weak.
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seb146
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:46 pm



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 44):
Show us one example of a Republican or even a Democrat president who has ever tried to shut down a news service.....I won't hold my breath.

Now tell us what you would say if Bush had told the rest of the media to boycott MSNBC or CNN, then talk to us about hypocrites.

Dodging my point. You talk about presidents, I talk about GOP supporters.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 43):
You don't remember the NYT running moveon.org's ad about "General Be-Trayus" (Gen. Petrayos). I don't suppose you also remeber the NYT refusing to run an ad the next day defending Petrayos, do you?

And, then, people get all up-in-arms when FOX is attacked? It is okay to attack NYT but not FOX?
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RE: Is The W/H Wrong For Attacking Fox News?

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:48 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 41):
they are going on record as saying that they will refuse all interview requests at least until the end of the year

Actually the article says:

Quote:
one of President Barack Obama's top adviser pledged Sunday that administration officials would still appear on the top-rated cable news network.



Quote:
Still, Axelrod said administration officials would appear on the channel.

So, what is the source of your quote above?
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