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DocLightning
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Gay Bashing In Queens

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:12 pm

https://secure3.convio.net/hrc/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=598&autologin=true&JServSessionIdr002=y8aldfue15.app306a

The Human Rights campaign is using this to fuel to call for extension of hate crimes legislation to protect the LGBT community.

I have mixed feelings. I do not believe that a "hate crime" should be treated differently than any other crime. If you do this to someone, you spend your entire young adulthood in prison. In my opinion, the motive should not matter. So, in that sense, I am against hate crimes legislation in general.

But if hate crimes legislation is going to exist, then I understand that LGBT people are now more likely (per capita) to be the victims of it than any other group in this country. So we should be covered.

The thing is that I don't think that either perp was thinking about the consequences when he did this. So I don't think that "getting tough" is going to solve the problem. Educating our youth that there are gays in the world and that this is a simple fact of life, and that they should leave us alone and we will leave them alone, is the solution.
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Force13
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:43 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Educating our youth that there are gays in the world and that this is a simple fact of life, and that they should leave us alone and we will leave them alone, is the solution.

I agree but how do we end the religious zealots from using thier god and faith as weapons? (i.e. Fred Phelps and crew). In Iran and I believe Saudi Arabia you can be executed for being gay because of their interpretation of their faith.

It;s not the thug on the street corner that scares me, I can walk away or defend myself. What scares the hell out of me is the lunatic preacher spreading his "word" to the masses.
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DocLightning
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:51 pm



Quoting Force13 (Reply 1):

I agree but how do we end the religious zealots from using thier god and faith as weapons?

Simple: we start teaching children that it's wrong. You teach children that there are many religions and faiths in the world, but that any faith that teaches that any given class of people are inferior and/or should be punished is just wrong.
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N104UA
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:57 pm



Quoting Force13 (Reply 1):
What scares the hell out of me is the lunatic preacher spreading his "word" to the masses.

This is what is really wrong with America, where we have preachers preach hate and take the 'It's my way or the highway' approach

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
we start teaching children that it's wrong. You teach children that there are many religions and faiths in the world, but that any faith that teaches that any given class of people are inferior and/or should be punished is just wrong.

I agree we should, but I know many people that refuse to teach their children that, and just teach them to hate anyone who is different than them
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Force13
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:57 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Simple: we start teaching children that it's wrong. You teach children that there are many religions and faiths in the world, but that any faith that teaches that any given class of people are inferior and/or should be punished is just wrong.

I wish it were that simple my friend, I really do. But 2000+ years of religious ideology is a tough gig to educate around.

It's not that I don't agree with your point of view (I'm not religious so it's a no-brainer for me) I just have encounted many religous bigots on this earth and no amount of education can change that.
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:35 pm

Queens? How ironic...
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:53 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Simple: we start teaching children that it's wrong. You teach children that there are many religions and faiths in the world, but that any faith that teaches that any given class of people are inferior and/or should be punished is just wrong.

Easier said than done I'm afraid. There are always going to be those who are going to teach their children that gays (and we all know that's not the word they'll be using) are evil, filthy, sinful, etc., etc. I absolutely hate to say it but I just don't see a day when what you advocate will become reality. Don't get me wrong, I'd love more than anything for this to become reality but I just believe that the grip that the religious right has on some people is so strong that it will be nearly impossible to change the national discourse on homophobia. I hope against hope that I'm proven wrong.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 5):
Queens? How ironic.

LOL!
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pilotsmoe
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:08 am

Pack heat, and you won't have these problems. A glock 21 ought a do it!  tombstone 
 
Airstud
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:56 pm

What's ironic is that the thread could have been more economically titled; say, Bashing In/Of Queens.

Anyhu, there are religious folx and there are also wingnuts. The fact that some people meet both descriptions is a case of overlap, not sameness. There have, in fact, been wingnuts among the atheists (cf the Red Brigade in Italy in the 1950's, the Soviets, etc...)

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DocLightning
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:42 pm



Quoting N104UA (Reply 3):
I know many people that refuse to teach their children that, and just teach them to hate anyone who is different than them

Right. My argument is that there is too much "religious tolerance" in the U.S. Perhaps your religion should lose its status as a legally protected religion once it starts saying that "all (whichever) are sinners/damned to hell/should be stoned to death."

Germany has banned certain religions that advocate harm to others under their hate crimes laws. Sometimes, Germany's policies have made me uncomfortable, but I'm starting to see the wisdom in them.

It's an issue of a fine line and a slippery slope, though. When you ban a religion, you risk running into Nazi-esque round-ups and such. So far, Germany has managed to keep this in line, but I wonder if the U.S. could be as disciplined.
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N104UA
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Germany has banned certain religions that advocate harm to others under their hate crimes laws. Sometimes, Germany's policies have made me uncomfortable, but I'm starting to see the wisdom in them.

Another reason why Germany is better than the USA

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
I wonder if the U.S. could be as disciplined.

I doubt it do you see how pissed off people get when the government wants to give them free health care, just imagine if you start taking things away from them.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Perhaps your religion should lose its status as a legally protected religion once it starts saying that "all (whichever) are sinners/damned to hell/should be stoned to death."

This would have to be done on a Church by Church basis because I go to a relatively tollerant church but other churches in my domination do preach hate
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DocLightning
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RE: Gay Bashing In Queens

Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:23 pm



Quoting N104UA (Reply 10):

This would have to be done on a Church by Church basis because I go to a relatively tollerant church but other churches in my domination do preach hate

Maybe this would encourage denominations such as these (*koff* Southern Baptists *koff koff*) to oust these folks.
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