mt99
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Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:44 am

Hello fellow Portuguese A-netters!

Travels will soon take me my friend over to Lisbon. After spending a few days getting to know Lisbon (any tips?) we plan on renting a car and heading over Seville on route to Malaga to visit some friends for a few days.

My friend (who doesn't get out much - the poor guy) and i have a little bet going. I say that while driving into Spain, we wont see any border control. In fact, i tell him -as he is flying back home via CDG - he will not see any immigration once he gets to France either. The flight between LIS and CDG would be just like any US domestic flight (with better service). He disagrees.

I figured what better forum to pose the question here - and get some free travel advice on any cool places to stop along the way!

Thanks!
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Braniff747SP
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:00 am

Well, on the drive, there is no border police, nothing at all, not booths, just sinig sayin customs and welcome to portugal.
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Pyrex
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:44 am

Correct, no border control. Now I might be wrong, but I don't think that necessarily means he will be legally qualified to be in the country though - there might be cases where you don't need a visa to go to Portugal but you need to other countries in the EU, depending on your nationality.

Quoting Mt99 (Thread starter):
Lisbon (any tips?)

Well, it really depends on how many days you are spending. If you are spending at least 3 full days I definitely recommend taking a day trip to Sintra (and maybe Cascais if you have a car and can do both in one day). There is very frequent commuter rail up (about 45 minutes ride) and it is just beautiful up there. Otherwise, stick to the city, have plenty of good fish and enjoy the views from the hills. Maybe with a bit of luck I'll be able to make it in a few weekends as well.
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LTU932
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:34 am



Quoting Mt99 (Thread starter):
My friend (who doesn't get out much - the poor guy) and i have a little bet going. I say that while driving into Spain, we wont see any border control. In fact, i tell him -as he is flying back home via CDG - he will not see any immigration once he gets to France either. The flight between LIS and CDG would be just like any US domestic flight (with better service).

That is correct. It's all courtesy of the Schengen Treaty. The rules are similar as in the US, albeit not as strict from an immigration control point of view. If you're flying e.g. ORD-CDG-LIS, then you just pass through immigration through CDG, as CDG is the port of entry. For the LIS-CDG stage of the flight, you do not pass immigration because it's like a domestic flight between Schengen countries.

However, you may encounter random customs controls sometimes if you're within a certain radius (I believe it was a 50 km/31 mi radius) from the border.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
Correct, no border control. Now I might be wrong, but I don't think that necessarily means he will be legally qualified to be in the country though - there might be cases where you don't need a visa to go to Portugal but you need to other countries in the EU, depending on your nationality.

Didn't that become obsolete with the Schengen Treaty? I mean, if Portugal and Spain are Schengen countries, wouldn't a Schengen visa suffice (if required)? After all, a Visa for only Portugual would therefore be obsolete.
 
HT
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:58 am



Quoting Mt99 (Thread starter):
we plan on renting a car and heading over Seville on route to Malaga

Practical tip: Make sure that the rental car agency allows wou to take the car from Potugal to spain. Not all of them allow this at all, some other will levy a one-time or a daily fee - some others have it for free.
I assume you will be returning the car in Portugal ? If not, prepare for a considerable oneway-fee. And usually only the major players in the rental car business will allow you an international oneway rental at all.

If not yet booked, consider to check out SIXT who had the least restrictions when I was renting out of FAO driving into Spain (but returning the car into FAO) earlier this year

Quoting Mt99 (Thread starter):
Lisbon (any tips?)

Get a multi-day ticket for public transport. you will need a "7 Colinas card" for a small fee onto which the actual ticket is loaded. More info on www.carris.pt/en/home

Explore the Baixa on foot.
Ride the Elevadores.
Take the tram to Belem.
For sunset, take the ferry across the Tejo from Cais de Sodre to Cacilhas. Turn left when exiting the port building and walk a few meters. Sit on one of the park benches facing the silhouette of Lisbon and marvel at the view.
Also located in Cacilhas (but a long walk from the ferry, so better take a bus) is Monumento a Cristo Rei.

Take the Metro to Oriente and visit the former site of the World Expo.
Take the Metro to Marques de Pombal and walk up Parque Eduardo VII. Views onto Avda de Liberdade can be pretty good. Alternative would be to exit Metro at Sao Sebastao putting you into a shopping center before heading for the far side of the parc. From here one also can spot a/c approaching LIS.

If you are into it: Take the tram ("Electrico") 25 or 28 from Baixa to the old churchyard Campo Ourique locally known as Prazeres (western terminus of both lines). The monuments on this churchyard really impressive. A few stops earlier you will pass the Basilica de Estrela.

I need to look up the name of the less-known Miradouro which gives you a view onto Praca Martim Moniz and the remainder of the city. It is near a stop of Electrico 28.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
mt99
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:24 am



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
there might be cases where you don't need a visa to go to Portugal but you need to other countries in the EU, depending on your nationalit

He doesnt need a schengen visa, but he is not a US Citizen - from S America somewhere.. but he was worried about flying int CDG from LIS- for some strange reason.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
Well, it really depends on how many days you are spending. If you are spending at least 3 full days I definitely recommend taking a day trip to Sintra (and maybe Cascais if you have a car and can do both in one day

Thanks! ill definitely look into it.. Any good places on the drive between LIS and Spain?

Quoting HT (Reply 4):
I assume you will be returning the car in Portugal ? If not, prepare for a considerable oneway-fee. And usually only the major players in the rental car business will allow you an international oneway rental at all.

If not yet booked, consider to check out SIXT who had the least restrictions when I was renting out of FAO driving into Spain (but returning the car into FAO) earlier this year

Actually i think i got a great deal from Hertz. Picking up in Downtown Lisbon and Returning it at the airport. Getting a "Peugeot 407 or equivalent" for 5 days for less than $300 euros with all taxes in.

It will be my first time renting a car in Europe and plan on counting on my AMEX CDW insurance. So i preferred to use with a US company in case there was any trouble. One thing you cant deny is that the US customer service is far beyond anything place else in the world. And the price is great anyways

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
If you're flying e.g. ORD-CDG-LIS,

Im actually flying IB ORD-MAD-LIS. My buddy is flying EWR-LIS-CDG-ORD on CO, TP and AF. We are meeting in LIS. He arrives an hour or so before i do.
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Pyrex
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:18 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):

Didn't that become obsolete with the Schengen Treaty? I mean, if Portugal and Spain are Schengen countries, wouldn't a Schengen visa suffice (if required)? After all, a Visa for only Portugual would therefore be obsolete.

I said this because I believe some countries (such as Brazil) do not require a visa to visit Portugal but might require one for other parts of Europe. Not too sure if its true, though, and what happens when a Brazilian enters Europe through Portugal.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
Thanks! ill definitely look into it.. Any good places on the drive between LIS and Spain?

I don't recall exactly, but I believe the most direct route from Lisbon to Seville is through the Algarve and then straight on, always on the highway. If you want a nice view, though, I would go through Beja, Serpa and Valverde del Camino, though ( http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...6.091919&spn=2.102674,4.938354&z=8 ). Might add an hour or a bit more to your trip but it should provide you with some nice views and country roads in Alentejo and Extremadura. You might even take an extra detour and stop by Alqueva, a dam that holds the largest artificial lake in Europe.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
Actually i think i got a great deal from Hertz. Picking up in Downtown Lisbon and Returning it at the airport. Getting a "Peugeot 407 or equivalent" for 5 days for less than $300 euros with all taxes in.

That is a great deal. Too bad I am boycotting Hertz (the f'ckers double-charged me for the car I rented in NZ in January and I am still going back and forth with them since then).

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 5):
My buddy is flying EWR-LIS-CDG-ORD on CO, TP and AF.

I did EWR-CDG-LIS the other day (because CO made me miss my direct flight). Just make sure his bags get there on the same flight he does!
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mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:32 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):
That is a great deal. Too bad I am boycotting Hertz (the f'ckers double-charged me for the car I rented in NZ in January and I am still going back and forth with them since then).

It sure is. I just checked my rate its 252 Euros for 5 days. 317 Euros w the GPS rental + taxes. I hope i get that Peugeot 407..looks nice..

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):
don't recall exactly, but I believe the most direct route from Lisbon to Seville is through the Algarve and then straight on, always on the highway. If you want a nice view, though, I would go through Beja, Serpa and Valverde del Camino, though ( http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...6.091919&spn=2.102674,4.938354&z=8 ). Might add an hour or a bit more to your trip but it should provide you with some nice views and country roads in Alentejo and Extremadura. You might even take an extra detour and stop by Alqueva, a dam that holds the largest artificial lake in Europe.

Fantastic thanks!. we may do the south route on the way to Seville and the route you recommended on the way back!
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jonjonnl
Posts: 76
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:25 am



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):
when a Brazilian enters Europe through Portugal.

When a citizen from a country outside the EU enters the Schengen Space, they have a visa for the Schengen Space and they get a stamp that allows them to travel for a period of time within the Schengen Space.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):
I believe the most direct route from Lisbon to Seville is through the Algarve and then straight on, always on the highway. If you want a nice view, though, I would go through Beja, Serpa and Valverde del Camino, though

I'd choose this route. I've done it myself and it is amazing. You leave the A2 in the direction of Beja and you follow the IP8/E802/N433 towards Seville.

Quoting HT (Reply 4):
-HT

You know Lisbon v well.
Is the miradouro you mean the Torel? That's a nice one.

Cheers
João
joão in ams
 
JJJ
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:02 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 7):
It sure is. I just checked my rate its 252 Euros for 5 days. 317 Euros w the GPS rental + taxes. I hope i get that Peugeot 407..looks nice..

I hope you don't mind getting a manual, because unless you specify you want an auto, a stick is what you'll generally get.
 
HT
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:45 pm

Quoting Jonjonnl (Reply 8):
Is the miradouro you mean the Torel?

I googled both the Miradouro Torel as well as the Parque de Torel, but neither is the one I was thinking about.
After having consulted a printed map of the city (yes, those things still exist   ) I think I found it: I likely is in R. de Sra. do Monte, off R. de Graca. This is a few stops on the E28 coming after having left Avda Almirante Reis @ Anjos, but well before reaching the more well known Miradoura Santa Luzia.

But it looks like I need to go back to Lisbon again to update my mind ...  
-HT

EDIT: Found another map, and now I can confirm that the location described above is correct. The name of the spot is "Miradouro Nossa Senhora do Monte".

[Edited 2009-10-26 09:59:12]
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
mt99
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:49 pm



Quoting JJJ (Reply 9):
I hope you don't mind getting a manual, because unless you specify you want an auto, a stick is what you'll generally get.

Not at all. I drove a manual for years. I got an automatic because no one i know, knows how to drive a stick. At the time it felt like a safety-issue:" What happened if i am dying and i need to be driven.. and no one can drive my car".

I miss driving a manual.. so i am actually looking forward to it  Smile
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HT
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:09 pm

Tip for getting from LIS (Portela Airport) to the hotel:
In case you do not have exessive amounts of luggage AND your hotel is located somewhere near a stop of the Aerobus #91, it is recommended to use it.
The ticket you buy from the driver (have correct change available), is good for unlimited rides on this very day on all Carris' buses, but not the Metro.
Aerobus http://www.golisbon.com/transport/airport-shuttle.html
Public transport in Lisbon (independent site) http://www.golisbon.com/transport/transport.html

If you need or prefer to use a taxi (cab), be warned of frequent fare cheating (at least in the past).
One good way to get around this, shall be to go to Departures and use a taxi that just has offloaded its passengers, but I never tried this.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
aircatalonia
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:25 pm

Well, you will see a sign but definitely not a border control. Sometimes there is a change in the quality of road, as well:

http://www.entretente.net/new/files/imagen/790_frontera_es_por1.JPG
http://www.entretente.net/new/files/imagen/790_frontera_es_por2.JPG

But that's it  Wink
 
Pyrex
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:57 am



Quoting Aircatalonia (Reply 13):
But that's it  

Too bad it is usually the other way around. Last time I drove to France (the real only use for Spanish roads) I was on a highway all the way from Lisbon to Vilar Formoso (on the Portuguese side) and from Vilar Formoso almost all the way to Salamanca (some 60+ kms) it was a crappy country road. The same thing has happened to me at Vila Real de Santo António / Ayamonte.
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Aeroflot001
Posts: 335
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
However, you may encounter random customs controls sometimes if you're within a certain radius (I believe it was a 50 km/31 mi radius) from the border.

This summer when I went to Spain and I knew we would be entering France I asked multiple people near the border if we needed to do anything at all. Everyon said that you didnt have to do anything and that occasionally there was a police car making a simple ID check.

Quoting Aircatalonia (Reply 13):
Well, you will see a sign but definitely not a border control. Sometimes there is a change in the quality of road, as well:

I have to say that picture is quite a bit amusing however it makes me feel rather bad for the Portugese.
 
jonjonnl
Posts: 76
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:18 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 14):
Too bad it is usually the other way around. Last time I drove to France (the real only use for Spanish roads) I was on a highway all the way from Lisbon to Vilar Formoso (on the Portuguese side) and from Vilar Formoso almost all the way to Salamanca (some 60+ kms) it was a crappy country road. The same thing has happened to me at Vila Real de Santo António / Ayamonte.

Come on Pyrex! You've got to admit it's quite funny that picture!! Hahaha!
Of course it is biased on Aircatalonia's part because not all Portuguese roads are bad and of course some Spanish roads will be crappy, but it is a funny picture! =D

Cheers
João
joão in ams
 
jonjonnl
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:54 pm

RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:24 pm



Quoting HT (Reply 12):
If you need or prefer to use a taxi (cab), be warned of frequent fare cheating (at least in the past).
One good way to get around this, shall be to go to Departures and use a taxi that just has offloaded its passengers, but I never tried this.

My parents live 5 min from the airport, which means that when I go to Portugal to visit them and arrive at the airport, taxi drivers at arrivals often are rude to me when I ask them to take me there.
What I started doing is indeed going to departures and take a taxi there. There's no need to wait for a taxi offloading passengers. There is a dedicated taxi area where there are always at least half a dozen of taxis waiting for passengers. And they often don't cheat like the ones on arrivals *still* do.

Cheers
João
joão in ams
 
aircatalonia
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:50 pm

RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:26 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 14):
Too bad it is usually the other way around

Hey you don't have to convince me, I know Spain is crap and not only because of roads, unfortunately. You know that here in Catalonia many people is not happy with Spain.

But hey that picture is funny, you gotta agree  Wink
 
Pyrex
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:37 am



Quoting Aircatalonia (Reply 18):
But hey that picture is funny, you gotta agree

Ok, it's funny. But it does seem kind of dated, though. Portugal might be behind other European countries in most respects, but by God do we have roads. They squeezed every last cent out of that EU tap to basically pave over the entire country (in some places multiple times). Expensive highways, I give you that, but well maintained, nice and clean rest stops, etc.

Where/when was that picture taken, do you know? By the amount of green I would say it is some minor border crossing somewhere north of the Tagus river.
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jonjonnl
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:54 pm

RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:15 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
Where/when was that picture taken, do you know? By the amount of green I would say it is some minor border crossing somewhere north of the Tagus river.

It's on the border between Minho and Galicia. You can see that the Spanish (Galicians) have placed a Galician flag (the blue stripe) on top of the EU Spain thing.
joão in ams
 
baguy
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:44 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
Ok, it's funny. But it does seem kind of dated, though. Portugal might be behind other European countries in most respects, but by God do we have roads. They squeezed every last cent out of that EU tap to basically pave over the entire country (in some places multiple times). Expensive highways, I give you that, but well maintained, nice and clean rest stops, etc.

 checkmark  It's amazing the newish motorway to Chaves (A24?) is brilliant. We were on our way to Santander from Portimao about 2 years ago and it must have only just opened. It was brand new and completely empty - we saw about 1 or 2 cars! And the motorways have definitely been of benefit. Also the A22, sooooooo much better than the N125!

But as regards to Lisbon, it has to be my favourite city! When I was there in August we found this place called GoCar. It is basically a scooter, but with two seats side by side. We hired one and It is great. It has a sat nav that takes on a number of routes that you can select, and tell you about the different sites and places along the way. A refreshing take on a boring old city tour! http://www.gocartours.eu/.

There are some great places to eat in Docas, near to the Ponte de 25 Abril (you can take the metro to Baixa-Chiado and then take the tram (I think no.14, BUT DON'T TAKE THAT AS GOSPEL, CHECK!). There are a few nice restaurants and clubs there with lots of atmosphere - and the views of the Bridge and Cristo Rei are stunning!

Have a great trip, I am envious!

BAguy
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4044
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:28 am



Quoting Baguy (Reply 21):
There are some great places to eat in Docas, near to the Ponte de 25 Abril (you can take the metro to Baixa-Chiado and then take the tram (I think no.14, BUT DON'T TAKE THAT AS GOSPEL, CHECK!). There are a few nice restaurants and clubs there with lots of atmosphere - and the views of the Bridge and Cristo Rei are stunning!

Great place when the weather is nice, but it can be kind of noisy if you are sitting outside.

Quoting Baguy (Reply 21):
  It's amazing the newish motorway to Chaves (A24?) is brilliant.

What, even Chaves got a new highway? I guess we really did pave over every single thing there was. Now it is only a matter of finishing the Marão tunnel (5.6 kms) and we should be all set.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
baguy
Posts: 474
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RE: Driving Between Lisbon And Spain

Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:08 am



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 22):
but it can be kind of noisy if you are sitting outside.

The bridge does make one hell of a noise! I forgot about that!

BAguy

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