sccutler
Posts: 5555
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:42 am

...as I drove into work this morning, the announcer on NPR was observing that these two high-profile gubernatorial races were "very important" to President Obama, and that the President had been making significant efforts to assist the Democrat Party's candidates in each state.

It now looks like both states have switched from D to R, including unseating New Jersey's incumbent, Gov. Corzine.

Discuss...
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:56 am

I'm very heartbroken despite the huge wins (especially in NJ). I simply cannot express my disappointment enough. This should've been an easy 3-0 sweep, an easy empty net goal...

NY-23 is about to be lost, which is simply a killer, and should be blamed on the NYGOP, GOP, Dede, and RNCC.

Simply heartbreaking.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:01 am

Congratulations to the voters of New Jersey and Virginia in choose the good side of the force rather then continueing this nations slide into the dark side.

As the shine continues to be removed from our president and our frankly evil congress, I can only hope for more republican victories.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:17 am



Quoting SCCutler (Thread starter):
...as I drove into work this morning, the announcer on NPR was observing that these two high-profile gubernatorial races were "very important" to President Obama,

Not sure why they would say that.
New Jersey and Virginia off-year gubernatorial races have gone against the party of newly elected Presidents before. Happened in 1993 to Clinton and in 2001 to Bush.
Both Presidents served two-terms.
Not sure why it would be any different for President Obama.
Jon Corzine has been unpopular for several years now.
Bring back the Concorde
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:20 am

Greensboro, NC elected a Republican mayor, voting out the incumbent Democrat after only one term. Interesting thing is Greensboro is usually a very heavy liberal/Democratic city.

Hopefully all signs of positive change to come in 2010.  Smile
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:30 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
NY-23 is about to be lost, which is simply a killer, and should be blamed on the NYGOP, GOP, Dede, and RNCC.

Agree...shame that it looks like NY-23 is going to be going blue. Dede should have never been nominated...

Glad that the governorships of NJ and VA went back to Republican control. Hopefully this is a foreshadowing to 2010 and Republicans can at least wrestle back some seats in the Senate and make it a bit tougher for the Democrats. Would be great if Harry can be one of those seats that goes to the Republicans. A very good day for the Republicans though, and it seems that Saint Barack's luster is waning a bit...
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:37 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Not sure why they would say that.

Nate Silver posted an interesting graph over at 538.com, which plotted each state's Obama vote against its vote for the Democratic gubernatorial candidate last time around. There is essentially no correlation between the two.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...natorial-races-poor-yardstick.html
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:42 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Congratulations to the voters of New Jersey and Virginia in choose the good side of the force rather then continueing this nations slide into the dark side.



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
As the shine continues to be removed from our president and our frankly evil congress, I can only hope for more republican victories.

At least you called him "our president", so you're making progress.

Those two states have made their calls. Congrats to all those who voted. Off-year elections usually go to the minority party, and this year is no different. A year from now? Who knows? None of us do.

Sometimes, the best thing for any adminstration is a smack across the nose like this. It's part of the political process. It isn't the death of the Obama Adminsitration, and, sorry Republicans, unless you can find someone useful to run in '12, the President is still odds-on-favorite to win again.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:25 am

1. Who uses a Star Trek gif to put down some body making a Star Wars reference? Why would you do that???


2.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Sometimes, the best thing for any adminstration is a smack across the nose like this.

Unless he does at least a 120 degree turn on most of his issues, this is going to play into 2010. Which is one of the reasons why they are rushing the health care takeover by the federal government, They don't want to do it too close to the mid-terms.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3941
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:43 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Congratulations to the voters of New Jersey and Virginia in choose the good side of the force rather then continueing this nations slide into the dark side.

Are you talking about the 2008 election?  Confused



In all seriousness... what would make you call electing these Republican governors, 'the good side'? The partisanship is just really ridiculous these days. I've voted for plenty Republican and Democrat state officials. That mindset is just astounding really.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
nkops
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:21 am

Speaking as a NJ resident.... while Obama was here as late as last week campaigning for Corzine, I believe Christie (R) winning has more to do with NJ residents being sick of the highest property taxes in the country, our highest unemployment rate in 33 years, and one of the highest car insurance rates in the country. I don't think Corzine losing is as much of a reflection on Obama as people make it out to be, but more about the local issues in the state.

I look at it this way, can it really get that much worse!!...

I do think that the Republicans sweeping the 3 offices in Va. are more of a message to DC than NJ.
:evil:
 
D L X
Posts: 11628
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:47 am

GOP fan-boys should stop drooling over the win in Virginia for one simple reason: people voted here for McDonnell while also expressing their support for Obama. Obama still has a 60+% approval rate in Virginia, according to exit polling. So you can stop thinking that this was a repudiation of Obama right now. That is, if you're going to be intellectually honest. (A huge assumption, I know.)

Virginians are smart people - we vote for the better candidate (usually), regardless of party.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12360
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:51 am

In New Jersey it was 49% Christie (R), 45% Corzine (D) and Daggert (I) 6%. That is a significant margin by modern standards for the winning canidate in a major election and Daggert probaby took more votes from Christie than from Corzine.
In NJ and elsewhere where we saw Republicans winning even over incumbant Democrats or some Democrats winning with narrower margins, the economy, especially lost jobs and increasing and too high state local taxes (especially property taxes in NJ) were the overwhelming issues. In some cases local factors came into play. In NJ, the arrest of about 40 Democratic politcans (vs. 1 Republican) deeply hurt the Democrats. In the NY State 23rd Congressional district, you had infighting in the Republicans that split the vote and encouraged an established and moderate Democrat to win (special election to replace a Congressman who is now in the President's Cabinet). Virginia's Governship
Another factor on a National basis some commentators have made is that the losers or near-losers generally ran negative ads on the person of the Republican instead of pushing positive issues. Republicans could bash back instead playing up the Democrats as having increased taxes and not cut spending enough.
By the way, as has overwhelmingly happened in the past, Maine voters substantully rejected to legalize same-gender marriage.
I would also would note that the winning Republicans were geneally 'centerists', hard core Conservatives especially social conservatives didn't really gain. Problem is that the Republicans and especially the so-called Conservative wings may overplay the results for Republcans on larger, national issues, such as dealing with health care, tax policies, contiuing polices in Iraq & Afganistan.
 
Elite
Posts: 2296
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:52 am

Congratulations to New Jersey and Virginia... the Republicans there both won with wide margins, and hopefully this is a turn of the tide for the Grand Old Party.
 
nkops
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:55 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
So you can stop thinking that this was a repudiation of Obama right now. That is, if you're going to be intellectually honest. (A huge assumption, I know.)

Not according to FoxNews, and we all know they are as neutral as it comes!!  Big grin

(that was sarcasm!!)
:evil:
 
Elite
Posts: 2296
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:01 pm



Quoting Nkops (Reply 14):
Not according to FoxNews

They put a question mark on that, and they have a poll going. It's not like they blatantly said it.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/...publican-victory-referendum-obama/
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:09 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 15):
They put a question mark on that, and they have a poll going. It's not like they blatantly said it.

It's only 7am on the day after election day. Give them time, and they will.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Elite
Posts: 2296
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:10 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 16):

It's only 7am on the day after election day. Give them time, and they will.

Perhaps as an op-ed, but they won't report it as actual news.
 
dxing
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:14 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:51 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Not sure why they would say that.

Perhaps because he made at least 3 trips to NJ in the past two weeks. That's called investing political capital. Tied up EWR royally each and every time too. Shame we can't charge the WH for the gas he made at least one airline waste in fuel holding while he landed and left.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 5):
Would be great if Harry can be one of those seats that goes to the Republicans.

The way he is polling that is not such a far fetched idea.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
At least you called him "our president", so you're making progress.

A level a lot of democrats never progressed to in the last administration.


NJ was local all the way. As noted high property taxes, car insurance rates, and unemployment had more to do with the democrats loss. The President, and his people, evidently never read the signals that the population was sending. If they had they would have stayed away realizing that Corzine had already cut his own throat politically.

VA same thing. The GOP candidate just had a better message.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
NY-23 is about to be lost, which is simply a killer, and should be blamed on the NYGOP, GOP, Dede, and RNCC.

Absolutely and it ought to be as much of a wake up call to the RNC leadership as the losses of NJ and VA ought to be to the DNC leadership.

One thing this will do is give the blue dogs pause when it comes to voting for the final health care bill depending on how it looks. Last years idea that the GOP was adrift in the wilderness and wouldn't win anything anytime soon has just been deflated just as the same charge about the democratic party after 2004 was.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:04 pm

Forgot to bring up this one:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 10):
one of the highest car insurance rates in the country

Maybe some better road signage would help that. I can't count the number of times I've been driving on a New Jersey highway and the lane I'm in abruptly ends without warning, forcing me to merge into the lane adjacent, which is of course occupied by a line of cars whose drivers have no intention of giving me the room to do so.  gnasher  At least other states have discovered those yellow signs with "LANE ENDS IN 2000 FEET" on them. [/rant]

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
seb146
Posts: 13753
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:54 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 13):
the Republicans there both won with wide margins, and hopefully this is a turn of the tide for the Grand Old Party.

I don't understand something. There are 435 members of the House, 100 members of the Senate and 48 other governers. How can THREE races out of a total of 585 mean "the tide is turning for the GOP and against Obama?" How can THREE racess be a "mandate" against what Obama and/or the Democratic party is doing? Remember in W second term, the mid-term elections? When the tide definately turned where the Dems gained a slim majority? THAT was a mandate. Two governerships and one house district is not. Explain to me, again, how the governer if of significance on a national level?
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:39 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
How can THREE races out of a total of 585 mean "the tide is turning for the GOP and against Obama?"

Because the news media likes to hear itself talk. And if you give them only 3 races to discuss, they'll talk about those three just as loudly as if they were discussing all 435 + 33 seats in a even-year election.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
nkops
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:32 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 20):
How can THREE races out of a total of 585 mean "the tide is turning for the GOP and against Obama?"

It doesn't .. I can't speak for Virginia, but as a NJ resident, I voted because of local issues, not because of the way I feel about Obama. If Corzine would have said "I will cut property taxes by 1/3 or 1/2", I would have voted for him. I voted for who I think is going to help me keep food on the table, not because I don't like someone in DC.
:evil:
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:45 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 1):
This should've been an easy 3-0 sweep, an easy empty net goal...

Well, considering Hoffman was grossly outspent and didn’t have the ground team, it’s not surprising. But the absent candidate woman got 5% of the vote, and he still made it competitive! What IS encouraging, and I think this is symbolically more important than the NJ and VA gubernatorial victories for the Republicans, is that the message of CONSERVATISM, unabashed and unashamed, was not only viable, but worked.

The RINOs have been exposed and even after the disastrous McCain campaign, the Republican party still hasn’t had its “night of long knives” as it were. There still needs to be a purging. Gingrich supported Scuzzy, which was a ridiculous position to take, even as a compromise. Ideology DOES mean something, and yes, all politics is local—the conservative message IS the big tent everyone talks about, but there’s no standard bearer and the argument has been too slanted for too long.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Off-year elections usually go to the minority party, and this year is no different. A year from now? Who knows? None of us do.

Good points. Reagan got thumped hard in his midterm elections, before the economic turnaround took root and flowered. It’s not uncommon at all.

What IS different from before, and the challenge is maintaining it, is the outrage, the grass roots restlessness, the clear angst in America that is rejecting an administration that has overreached with a statist agenda and has done so with dominant control over both Houses. We shall see what happens. But I know that conservatives, lovers of liberty and independents everywhere are elated today to have a sign of a burgeoning movement for liberty showing signs of fruition.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3941
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:48 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 23):
But I know that conservatives, lovers of liberty and independents everywhere are elated today to have a sign of a burgeoning movement for liberty showing signs of fruition.

You're serious?
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
seb146
Posts: 13753
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:59 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 23):
I think this is symbolically more important than the NJ and VA gubernatorial victories for the Republicans, is that the message of CONSERVATISM, unabashed and unashamed, was not only viable, but worked.

Look at it this way: Oregon has elections for governer in the mid-term. That is, Bush41 was elected in 1988, Barbara Roberts (D) was elected in 1990 and John Kitzhaber and Ted Kulengoski were both (D) elected under Bush43. From that, are we also saying that the fact that Babs and John and Ted were elected while Republicans were in office was a resounding blow to the GOP and to Bush's agenda from the people of the United States? I swear, if I hear anything more about how the elections in NJ and VA are "mandates from the people" I am going to throw up. I did not have a say in the elections in NJ and VA. Those two states do not speak for me. In fact, those two states are on the other side of the country from me! How the hell can they speak for me or my neighbors or my family in Washington state or my extended family in Utah and Montana?

Quoting Slider (Reply 23):
The RINOs have been exposed

Read: Those that do not tow the strict neo-con line. People in the Republican party thinking for themselves. They are the ones being vindicated and called RINOs and made to be the evil ones.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:59 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 18):
Perhaps because he made at least 3 trips to NJ in the past two weeks. That's called investing political capital. Tied up EWR royally each and every time too. Shame we can't charge the WH for the gas he made at least one airline waste in fuel holding while he landed and left.

God himself couldn't save Corzine. He was unpopular years before Obama was elected President.
I am sure Obama is still very popular in New Jersey and understood Obama was just doing his party a favor by showing up to campaign for Corzine.
Air Force One ties up air traffic where ever it goes. Nothing unusual there.
As I've said before, New Jersey and Virgina has a history of voting in governors of the opposite party of a new President. Nothing unusual there either.
Bring back the Concorde
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:29 pm



Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 24):
You're serious?

Your deliberate attempt at sarcasm aside, quite serious. Ron Paul really fanned some flames and did a great job reviving some of the conservative movement. The problem is that, and this holds true for BOTH parties, they have ignored the will of the people for so long that people are apathetic. And pissed. But anger only goes so far. Actually teaching and explaining WHY conservatism is the true path of the Founders, stressing a limited Constitutional government rooted in individual liberty, property rights, less regulation and taxation, etc, is a critical piece that’s been missing. The words of Locke, the accounts of de Tocqueville, the economic teachings of von Mises and the Austrians, the conservative federalist approach doesn’t go out of style. In fact, it’s because it is a constant that it’s even more important to protect—because when the whims of flawed humanity coopt and twist government to do their bidding, it is the constitutional message that is timeless.

The problem is that there hasn’t been a real standard bearer for a long time. Goldwater, Reagan, but who since then? On a national scale, no one sadly. You saw Palin tap into it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 25):
Read: Those that do not tow the strict neo-con line. People in the Republican party thinking for themselves. They are the ones being vindicated and called RINOs and made to be the evil ones.

No, don’t put words in my mouth. I’ve never been a neocon and I challenge you to find ONE post here anywhere that would associate me with that from a philosophical sense. I’ve long taken a very libertarian hands-off practice from foreign affairs (repeatedly having called for the end to the Cuban embargo, leaving South Korea, ending aid to Israel and indeed ALL foreign aid, etc). When I speak of conservatism, as I noted above, I’m talking about conservatism as the best most successful way to apply the values of history, individualism, liberty, tradition, and natural law—from Locke to Burke, Montesquieu to Smith. Classic liberalism, if you will. But hardly neocon whatever. And certainly not compassionate conservatism (whatever the hell that is) because history would say that conservatism, as practiced in our past and envisioned by our Founders, IS the best way of manmade governments to permit compassion as it unshackles a man to do what he chooses as long as it doesn’t impede upon someone else’s natural rights.

Sorry to get on a rant here, but we get so caught up in the Xs and Os of an election that we often forget the underlying principles. Local elections aren’t about ideology they say, but I disagree…on a personal local level, nothing could (or at least should) be more intimately ideological—how a community runs its schools, where it puts its roads, how it allocates police protection, what is taxed, how much and where it’s used, the protection of property rights and individual freedom, and so forth.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:42 pm

I honestly don't think that the wins in NJ and VA really tie into how voters feel about the Obama White House. Corzine was seriously a crook and it was demonstroned on a local level of how voters really feel about him. People seem pretty intelligent in VA as well.

However, I do feel Obama going to campaign for Corzine on 3 different occasions was a little much. Let me just say it angered me a little bit seeing him perform one of his famous "rally" speeches about how people in Camden need to get out and vote again for Corzine like they did for him last year. I don't think even Obama realized how unpopular of a governor Corzine was. He just did it out of partisan rules which isn't always in the best taste.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
nkops
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:04 pm



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 28):
Corzine was seriously a crook

Aren't most NJ governors!!
:evil:
 
seb146
Posts: 13753
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:41 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 27):
I’ve never been a neocon and I challenge you to find ONE post here anywhere that would associate me with that from a philosophical sense.

My apologies. I usually point out the difference between when I am addressing one person and when I am talking about a group in general. In my post 25, I was refering mainly to the GOP leadership and right-wing talking heads. I understand and even appriciate those that are not in the main parties but, from time to time, side with them.
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:52 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 30):
My apologies. I usually point out the difference between when I am addressing one person and when I am talking about a group in general. In my post 25, I was refering mainly to the GOP leadership and right-wing talking heads. I understand and even appriciate those that are not in the main parties but, from time to time, side with them.

Copy that. no worries!  Smile
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:16 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 27):
The words of Locke, the accounts of de Tocqueville, the economic teachings of von Mises and the Austrians, the conservative federalist approach doesn’t go out of style.

The problem though is that the conservative federalist approach does fail in many areas. When it comes time to building schools, building roads, providing healthcare to the poor/elderly, the free market has fundamental problems. The likes of Locke and de Tocqueville lived in a different time when these items were not made available to the masses.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13173
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:26 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 19):
Maybe some better road signage would help that. I can't count the number of times I've been driving on a New Jersey highway and the lane I'm in abruptly ends without warning, forcing me to merge into the lane adjacent, which is of course occupied by a line of cars whose drivers have no intention of giving me the room to do so.

The whole no left turn thing confuses many out of state drivers, they cannot contemplate the fact that to turn left in New Jersey you turn right into the jug handle.

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 28):
Corzine was seriously a crook

How on earth do you even justify that allegation, the guy is worth hundreds of Millions of Dollars. You think he's looking for an envelope with $15,000 in the Malibu Diner parking lot?.. Seriously, there's never been any hint of any kind of misconduct around Corzine.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:53 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Congratulations to the voters of New Jersey and Virginia in choose the good side of the force rather then continueing this nations slide into the dark side.

Well, I did my part here in VA to give the GOP a landslide victory yesterday. The GOP won all 3 of the executive positions (which I believe only happened once before in the past 50 years). And yes, it had a lot to do with the Democrat Leadership in Washington ( which Obama is part of); it just wasn't about Virginia issues. If people don't think that health care and huge government spending/debt levels weren't on VA voters' minds, well, keep enjoying that kool-aid.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
D L X
Posts: 11628
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:57 am



Quoting PSA727 (Reply 34):
And yes, it had a lot to do with the Democrat Leadership in Washington ( which Obama is part of); it just wasn't about Virginia issues.

Strange, since the Governor of Virginia has little to do with stimulus, health care, and Afghanistan...
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:48 am



Quoting STT757 (Reply 33):
How on earth do you even justify that allegation, the guy is worth hundreds of Millions of Dollars.

Not a crook in the typical sense that "he stole" but more in the sense of ripping taxpayers off. Yes the man is VERY wealthy and a shrewd businessman. He's not the type of guy who would go around and accept bribes at the local NJ diner but is the type of guy who:

--Rose tuition and cut various sports and academic programs at Rutgers University.
--Increased Taxes after promising in his first campaign to lower them.
--Responsible for a 24 hour NJ state government shutdown in July 2006 because of raising the state sales tax from 6 to 7 percent.
--Attempted to lease off the NJ turnpike for bond money which led to much opposition and controversy.
--Spent over $54,000 of taxpayer money in covering up e-mails (mandated by a court) he sent between himself and Carla Katz, then president of the CWA who he was romantically involved with earlier this decade.

Not to mention the whole "not wearing the seatbelt" motorcade incident going 90 MPH to meet Don Imus, but he appeared in a PSA regarding wearing a seat belt. I'll give him a break on that one.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:57 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 18):
A level a lot of democrats never progressed to in the last administration.

A level most Republicans haven't progressed to during the last two Democratic adminstrations. I'm sure L-188 just had a slip of the tongue there.  Big grin

Seriously, the partianship has gotten so bad on both sides, that what really needs to be done, on a state and national level, is to toss every incumbent out of the statehouses and the Congress, no matter which party they're in. Plus, I've fought term limits in the past, but I think it's time now to institute them nation-wide, so that we don't have guys like Kennedy, Byrd, Thrumond, etc, staying in Congress for a lifetime. That only benefts them, not the people of this nation.

For sure, it be nice to see Pelosi, Reid and Boehner all booted as far from DC as they can get booted. All three of them are an embarrassment to this nation.
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Ken777
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:33 am

Interesting point made in a NY Times article on Gov Elect Christie:

Quote:
He faces some of the most daunting challenges in decades: high unemployment, a projected $8 billion deficit, a suffocating tax burden, crumbling roadways, an impatient electorate and a Democratic Legislature that could be as loath to help him succeed as Republicans in Congress have been to aid President Obama.

He acknowledged the dimensions of the state’s economic crisis. “We’ve got a lot to do and we know it,” he said. “The reality of last night sinks in slowly.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/nyregion/05christie.html?hp

Sort of like Obama a year ago - lots of misery to try to overcome.

And now the Republicans and Conservatives have made it clear that 9 months in office for Obama is sufficient for him to be responsible for all the misery it will be equally fair to give Gov Elect Christie 9 months to solve NJ's problems.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:37 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
Seriously, the partianship has gotten so bad on both sides, that what really needs to be done, on a state and national level, is to toss every incumbent out of the statehouses and the Congress, no matter which party they're in. Plus, I've fought term limits in the past, but I think it's time now to institute them nation-wide, so that we don't have guys like Kennedy, Byrd, Thrumond, etc, staying in Congress for a lifetime. That only benefts them, not the people of this nation.

I commend your good sense about our problem with Congress, now if we could only convince more of the people about these crooks and scoundrels. Term Limits is the answer, and the only chance for that is to throw them all out.
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Falcon84
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:04 am



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 39):
I commend your good sense about our problem with Congress, now if we could only convince more of the people about these crooks and scoundrels. Term Limits is the answer, and the only chance for that is to throw them all out.

What is needed is a grass-roots effort to convince voters in every state that term limits, and dumping every incumbent out of there will only improve the system. It will take a while, but it will help.

We have one incumbent Senator running in a few years, Sherrod Brown. I don't think he's a bad guy, but he's been a Congressman and now a Senator, and it's time he do something else, so I will vote against him in the primaries, and in the general election, unless the GOP would run someone completely unacceptable, like Ken Blackwell. George Voinovich's seat will be open come next year, so there's on incumbent gone.
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WarRI1
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:16 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 40):
We have one incumbent Senator running in a few years, Sherrod Brown. I don't think he's a bad guy, but he's been a Congressman and now a Senator, and it's time he do something else, so I will vote against him in the primaries, and in the general election, unless the GOP would run someone completely unacceptable, like Ken Blackwell. George Voinovich's seat will be open come next year, so there's on incumbent gone.

I have been doing that along with my immediate family, we do not care about party, we vote against the incumbent. It sure has not worked here. Sad to say the least. You have to wonder, what the people are thinking, they bitch and groan here, but they vote in the people who are screwing us, over and over. The Independant is the largest declared affiliation here, but, the same result every time.
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Ken777
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:25 am

The problem with limiting time in Congress is that it denies a state or district the right to elect who they want to serve them.

And at times there are exceptional people who serve their country. The Republicans who joined Democrats in speaking well of Senator Kennedy did a clear job of identifying one special Senator.

I can remember Senator Dirkson (R., IL) from the 50s and consider that this country benefitted from his long service.

While I might not vote for either of our Senators, there are many on both sides of the aisle. I tend to believe that we need a few with experience and judgement. And a few who can work together when it's important.
 
dxing
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:22 am



Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
God himself couldn't save Corzine.

Yet President Obama thought he could, what's that tell you?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
I am sure Obama is still very popular in New Jersey and understood Obama was just doing his party a favor by showing up to campaign for Corzine.

He would do well to pay attention to the exit polls that put the economy way over health care in terms of the voters order of importance.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 26):
Air Force One ties up air traffic where ever it goes. Nothing unusual there.

Didn't say it was but 3 times in a couple of weeks, when there was no other obvious government business to be done in NJ, is a little excessive no matter what party is involved.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 38):
And now the Republicans and Conservatives have made it clear that 9 months in office for Obama is sufficient for him to be responsible for all the misery it will be equally fair to give Gov Elect Christie 9 months to solve NJ's problems.

As you pointed out though, Christie does not have the benefit of a legislature dominated by the same party as his. His sledding will be much tougher than President Obama's.
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Superfly
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:38 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 43):
Yet President Obama thought he could, what's that tell you?

More like doing a friend a favor a guess.

Quoting DXing (Reply 43):
He would do well to pay attention to the exit polls that put the economy way over health care in terms of the voters order of importance.

Not sure what powers Governor Corzine would have over a federal health care system.
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STT757
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:24 pm



Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 36):
Not a crook in the typical sense that "he stole" but more in the sense of ripping taxpayers off. Yes the man is VERY wealthy and a shrewd businessman. He's not the type of guy who would go around and accept bribes at the local NJ diner but is the type of guy who:
.

You're back peddling, you called him a "crook" as if he took all that tax money and stuffed it into his own pockets. He took that tax money and spent it on projects and programs the State of New Jersey desperately needs. I was blessed to attend an upper Middle Class New Jersey School district, and received an excellent education. Unfortunately there are many districts in New Jersey who have buildings that either literally falling down or making students sick, go check out Elizabeth High school which has the highest number of students in the nation. So many they have to have half day schedules for students so they can have two school days in one. Check out Rahway, Linden HIgh Schools etc.. They are desperately in need of replacement, and multiply that state wide from Pre-K through the High School level. Then of course there's the State Colleges and Universities.

Quote:
Increased Taxes after promising in his first campaign to lower them.

If that's your rubric do you consider President George H.W. Bush a crook? I don't, I think President George H.W. Bush was one of our most prestigious and respectable Presidents.
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seb146
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:57 pm



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 39):
Term Limits is the answer, and the only chance for that is to throw them all out.

I like what Thom Hartman said yesterday: it was something along the lines of "we already have term limits: they are called elections" meaning that every two years, we have a chance to vote out the entire House and 1/3 of the Senate. Ever person registered over the age of 18 has three seats in Congress to vote on. But, the nation, as a whole, has the chance to limit the term of the entire House and 1/3 of the Senate. That should be a pretty good check and we should use that.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 41):
You have to wonder, what the people are thinking, they bitch and groan here, but they vote in the people who are screwing us, over and over.

Not entirely true. I liked the representation I had in Oregon. I think that may be the issue. We like our own representation, but not Congress as a whole. We see Congress as "screwing us over" but not our own Representative and Senators.
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Ken777
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:04 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 43):
As you pointed out though, Christie does not have the benefit of a legislature dominated by the same party as his. His sledding will be much tougher than President Obama's.

As this election has shown, voters don't want excuses, or even very valid reasons. And, to be honest, the Democratic Senators haven't been giving Obama a free ride on his health reform plan.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 45):
If that's your rubric do you consider President George H.W. Bush a crook? I don't, I think President George H.W. Bush was one of our most prestigious and respectable Presidents.

I always thought that the vocal conservatives did more to elect Bill Clinton than anything else. Rush went into spasms when Bush signed off on a tax increase - probably the best example of internal attacks that lost an election.
 
dxing
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:33 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
More like doing a friend a favor a guess.

One word describes it. Narcissism.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
Not sure what powers Governor Corzine would have over a federal health care system.

Plenty. LIke all the Governors he could refuse to idley accept the federal governments plan to make the States pay more of the cost of medicaid as is being proposed in the current House bill as a way to hide the true cost of the bill.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 47):
As this election has shown, voters don't want excuses, or even very valid reasons. And, to be honest, the Democratic Senators haven't been giving Obama a free ride on his health reform plan.

Having a legislature dominated by the opposing party is hardly an excuse.
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Yellowstone
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RE: New Jersey And Virginia...

Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:37 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 48):
One word describes it. Narcissism.

So when President Bush made appearances at campaign events for fellow Republicans, was that also narcissism?
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