Ken777
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House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:08 am

It's been a long time in the works, but tonight just after 11 PM the House passed the Health Care Bill.
 
NIKV69
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:11 am

Curious what Republican voted for it.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Ken777
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:13 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):
Curious what Republican voted for it.

Probably one who is in a swing District with locals in favor of the legislation. Like the Democrats, elections are 12 months away.
 
NIKV69
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:20 am

Not sure of his name but from Louisiana.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
cws818
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:22 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 3):
Not sure of his name but from Louisiana.

It was Rep. Cao from Louisiana.
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:23 am

Wonderful. The American people made it pretty clear over the summer (and confirmed by every poll) that while they want health care reform, they don't want THIS.

And the big fraud is the idea that this is only a $1 trillion bill. CBO is now saying that it is a $3 trillion bill, even counting hundreds of billions of savings that will of course never happen.

Let's see what happens in the Senate.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
austinairport
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:43 am

 Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile  Smile
Couldn't be happier.
Now just can't wait to see what happens in the Senate.
Whoever said you can do anything you set your mind to has obviously never tried to slam a revolving door!!!
 
Charles79
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:45 am

I would rather have a proper National Health System but this is a great start. There is hope for this nation after all...

Cheers!
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:47 am

What a sad day for America.
 
johnboy
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:47 am



Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
It's been a long time in the works, but tonight just after 11 PM the House passed the Health Care Bill.

Excellent job. Major props to Rep. Pelosi, et al.
 
ual777
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:05 am

Great! More spending for our bankrupt country...
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
ltbewr
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:22 am

This is only a first of several major steps toward the changes in access to health care by Americans, but indeed critical. I am very glad this bill passed, I just wish some more D's were on board, although some (like Kunich) didn't do so as didn't go far enough. I suspect there will be a heavy lobbying process on the Senate versions, then the compromise and final bills.

To me, I want it so if one gets sick they don't lose their homes, their life savings or life itself due to a lack of access to affordable health care. I want that 'safety net' to be there. Will the cost be cheap? No, but we have to face the reality that good health care and it's costs are a necessity over and instead of more than we already need quanity of consumer goods.
 
Continental
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:43 am

Very glad this bill passed! This small step towards achieving this moral imperative is exciting.
 
N104UA
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:54 am

This has made this one of the greatest days ever now we just need Lieberman to fall into line and then we will have AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
 
ABQ747
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:17 am



Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
It's been a long time in the works, but tonight just after 11 PM the House passed the Health Care Bill.

I am really disappointed to hear this.
 worried 
The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
 
N104UA
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:40 am



Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 14):
Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
It's been a long time in the works, but tonight just after 11 PM the House passed the Health Care Bill.

I am really disappointed to hear this.
worried

This made my day, week and month
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:56 am

Bring on the Filibuster in the Senate!
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
JakeOrion
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:12 am

Anyone else say, "Oh sh!t....." ???
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:26 am

It's honestly depressing to know that some people think that this is the best Congress can do.

http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/gallery/curts-pictures/housestatisthealthchart1109.jpg
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Yellowstone
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:01 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
It's honestly depressing to know that some people think that this is the best Congress can do.

As if the same diagram for the current insurance system is any less complicated. And if complexity is the criterion on which the system should be judged, surely a single-payer system would be optimal?
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:29 am



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 19):
And if complexity is the criterion on which the system should be judged, surely a single-payer system would be optimal?

Oh no don't go saying that - you've opened the anathema can of worms. Single-payer is the most simple and most efficient system out there - too bad all the ideologues who worship the Blue Cross/Blue Shield establishment will never admit it.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:40 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
It's honestly depressing to know that some people think that this is the best Congress can do.

On another note "Program to treat of..." can't anyone make a critical poster without scathing grammatical errors anymore? Really weakens the message.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
johnboy
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:21 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):

It's honestly depressing to know that some people think that this is the best Congress can do.

i'm glad you agree. single-payer would go a long way to alleviate that.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:29 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 19):
As if the same diagram for the current insurance system is any less complicated. And if complexity is the criterion on which the system should be judged, surely a single-payer system would be optimal?

I could write an English language (as opposed to legal) reform bill that contains all the key elements of health care reform, including universal coverage, protections from insurer abuse, pre-existing conditions and so forth in maybe 10 pages. I can imagine two new government agencies being created, which would be mainly charged with enforcement. Total federal budget impact, maybe $1 billion per year, at the outside.

Quoting Continental (Reply 12):
Very glad this bill passed! This small step towards achieving this moral imperative is exciting.

This is the kind of thinking that has ruined our country - the same kind of thinking that a spoiled kid displays when he wants Playstations and other expensive toys and throws a tantrum when his parents who are barely scratching by on the mortgage and utilities can't afford it.

Don't you guys get it? We can't afford this, especially this overbloated beast.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
RussianJet
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:01 pm



Quoting Ual777 (Reply 10):
Great! More spending for our bankrupt country...

Yes, on healthcare for the people. Good. Some things are worth going the extra mile for.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 19):
As if the same diagram for the current insurance system is any less complicated. And if complexity is the criterion on which the system should be judged, surely a single-payer system would be optimal?

Exactly. People want to try and make you think that there was no such thing as overly-complex beauracracy prior to this scheme.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 24):
We can't afford this, especially this overbloated beast.

Then maybe the country should figure out its priorities properly, and save on areas such as waging war. Then it could be easily affordable.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
AGM100
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:47 pm

A major victory for socialism.

Well , as a citizen I did my best to appose it. I wrote letters , I made phone calls , went to rallies and donated to action committees. I exercised the tools at my disposal to appose this disastrous change to our country and our proven system. More government control will only deepen our debt and unbalance our financial system . But liberals only think of one thing..how can someone else take care of me so that I can have fun. Congratulations on the victory for the democrats, unions and communists ... now I hope your caretakers are still around in the next 20 years.

On to the Senate ..
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
dxing
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:51 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
Bring on the Filibuster in the Senate!

Please. Maybe there is a brain with some math skills in that chamber.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 20):
Single-payer is the most simple and most efficient system out there

Of course. When there is no other system allowed by law it looks that way.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
Yes, on healthcare for the people. Good. Some things are worth going the extra mile for.

 rotfl   rotfl  What's the old saw? "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship." I think that nail has been driven partially into our nations financial coffin with this vote.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 24):
Then maybe the country should figure out its priorities properly, and save on areas such as waging war. Then it could be easily affordable.

Spending on any war is finite. This spending is going to be there forever and only go in one direction, up.

Here's a partial list of what our brave leaders just voted for.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...48704795604574519671055918380.html

I especially love the line about how it will 18 months after the bills signing into law before we find out what a "qualified" plan is. Nothing like voting for something that is not defined financially. I wish I could do my work today with an admonishment to my employer that I will decide a month and a half from now how much I will charge for it.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
seb146
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:20 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
Nothing like voting for something that is not defined financially.

Kinda like the war in Iraq, the war in Afganistan, the war on terror, the war on drugs, the war in Korea, the war in Vietnam....

Don't fool yourself. We are still paying for all those wars and will be for a long, long time. How many vets are in the VA system with PTSD or cancer caused by depleated uranium or any number of hazardous materials encountered in the line of duty? Paying for war is not finite, whoever said that.

I am glad this passed. We are finally doing something for our own people first instead of trying to "fix" other countries "problems" and saying that is the right thing to do.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
Continental
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:29 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
A major victory for socialism.



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
Congratulations on the victory for the democrats, unions and communists ... now I hope your caretakers are still around in the next 20 years.

LOL!  rotfl  Short-sighted comments like this make me laugh everyday!
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:43 pm



Quoting Continental (Reply 28):

LOL! rotfl Short-sighted comments like this make me laugh everyday!

Who's the short-sighted one - the person who wants something "for free", or the person worried about being able to pay for it?

 Yeah sure
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
AGM100
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
What's the old saw? "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship." I think that nail has been driven partially into our nations financial coffin with this vote.

 checkmark  They simply do not get that idea .... they forget the reason that there is available funds in the treasury is solely the result of the actions of free men and free enterprise.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Charles79
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 19):
And if complexity is the criterion on which the system should be judged, surely a single-payer system would be optimal?

That's what I'm hoping for, that in the long run we use the foundations of this legislation to go ahead and implement a single-payer system down the road.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 20):
too bad all the ideologues who worship the Blue Cross/Blue Shield establishment will never admit it.

Too true.

On a different note, it's interesting to read the comments in here of those who opposed the bill. I know it's not perfect (but then which bill is?) but to read comments of "socialism", "communism", etc, only shows the ignorance of the authors of such comments as to what these terms truly mean. Also, it's sad to see those who oppose any health reform based on fiscal concerns don't even complain when we commit untold sums for wars and war-making machinery with little to no positive impact on our own citizens.

As a country we need to start setting our priorities right: health, education, infrastructure and civil rights have all taken a back seat to defense, wars, uncontrolled illegal immigration, big businesses/special financial interests and too low taxes. No, I do not advocate to get rid of the DoD or imply that war is never an alternative (as painful as it is). But in our quest for imperialism, coupled with always trying to run the country on the cheap with the lowest taxes as possible while always catering to the capitalist set, have left us with a country in dire need of some reforms and sound domestic policies. I see this bill as a fresh start.

Cheers!

Charles
 
Ken777
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:58 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
It's honestly depressing to know that some people think that this is the best Congress can do.

Actually the chart is a farce that some yo-yo in Bonher's office dreamed up - probably with the help of the health insurance lobby.

It has as much reality as the WMD in Iraq that started a War.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
Don't you guys get it? We can't afford this, especially this overbloated beast.

You must have health insurance that is subsidized by your employer.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
A major victory for socialism.

Or maybe just individuals who aren't rich enough to pay out of pocket for today's insurance costs, or medical fees.

Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
I think that nail has been driven partially into our nations financial coffin with this vote.

Sorry, but the insurance and financial sectors have been slamming nails in that coffin for years, with the help of the conservatives. At the same time they's been drilling large holes in the bottom so the cash can flow right into their pockets.

Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
Spending on any war is finite.

Not in practical terms. We're still paying out for WW II and payouts for Gulf War II (The Little Bush War) will continue for another 50 to 60 years at a minimum. And that is just government money being paid out. Individual personal costs can be far higher.

Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
I especially love the line about how it will 18 months after the bills signing into law before we find out what a "qualified" plan is.

Might be what the insurance companies and government needs to work out plans like they did with Medicare Gap Policies. And it's an ongoing process - 2010 Medicare information shows there are two new policies. The benefits are set, but competition as to price and some other factors are open to competition.

But then I guess insurance companies don't want you as an individual or employer to be able to easily compare the offerings between various companies. WIth Medicare Gap policies it's as easy as spending a bit of time on the internet with a cup of coffee to find what you want. Some guys could even do it with a beer or two.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:12 pm

Hopefully the Senate has the brains and balls to stop this needless, wasteful and pure socialist like agenda.

But rest assured, the price will be paid by candidates come election time.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
futurepilot16
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:19 pm

Well I can already hear the whining begin from the right. "They passed the bill without listening to our ideas, the don't wanna be bipartisan". I'm glad the bill passed and now we can move on to something else.
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:37 pm

Could somebody care to summarize this health care plan for those of us who do not live in the US and don't know what is in it?

Is it that Americans will now have to buy a mandatory health care coverage from the US government or a private coverage forced on them by the US government?

How will this work and when will it take effect?

I suppose this will not be a "free for all" (rich and poor) health care plan?  Yeah sure  Confused
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
A342
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:05 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
A major victory for socialism.

Most Americans don't seem to have a clue about what socialism is. From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"System of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control; also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into practice."

Socialism DOES NOT equate to a social safety net.

Hope that helps.


A342
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Continental
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:14 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Who's the short-sighted one - the person who wants something "for free", or the person worried about being able to pay for it?

And by short-sighted I meant thoughtless.  Embarrassment
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:21 pm

They passed it by only 5 votes?  Yeah sure
Now it has to go to the Senate if I am right.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:25 pm



Quoting Continental (Reply 37):

And by short-sighted I meant thoughtless.

The question still stands - Who is the thoughtless one, the one who wants something regardless of cost, or those who try to balance cost vs benefit (or at the very least know what they are)?
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. - W. Churchill
 
RussianJet
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:57 pm



Quoting A342 (Reply 36):
Most Americans don't seem to have a clue about what socialism is.

You got that one right. Numerous threads have evidenced that.

Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
What's the old saw? "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship." I think that nail has been driven partially into our nations financial coffin with this vote.

I love the way that extending access to healthcare to the poorest in society is described as voting for 'largess out of the public treasury' as though everyone was distributing gold bars to every home so that they could import butlers and build mansions. Get real. It's about looking after the health of the country. Doesn't it just give you a nice warm glow to hear people talk about the poorer in society gaining better access to healthcare as some kind of extravagant luxury? Says a lot.

Quoting DXing (Reply 26):
Spending on any war is finite.

I think you missed off the 'in' at the beginning of the word, at least if the last decade is anything to go by. Even if a war can be finite there can be infinite numbers of wars, and it sure looks like that's a possibility....
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
N104UA
Posts: 297
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:26 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
It's honestly depressing to know that some people think that this is the best Congress can do.

http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-conte...9.jpg



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 19):
surely a single-payer system would be optimal?



Quoting Johnboy (Reply 22):
i'm glad you agree. single-payer would go a long way to alleviate that.


Look how easy of a decision Single Payer is

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 25):
A major victory for socialism.

If you want socialism move to Cuba, oh wait they have a better health care system than America
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
 
Ken777
Topic Author
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:31 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 29):
Who's the short-sighted one - the person who wants something "for free", or the person worried about being able to pay for it?

Well, I get health care from Medicare and a monthly check from Social Security because someone was lo g sighted enough to ensure I made monthly payments from my pay (called FICA Taxes) to cover "old people" when I was young. Now I'm old and am glad that those good people weren't short sighted.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 30):
they forget the reason that there is available funds in the treasury is solely the result of the actions of free men and free enterprise.

And taxes. Don't forget taxes. The "Treasure" is filled with funds from taxes, duties, things like that. It's how we pay for things like new tankers for the USAF and medicine for the poor.
 
PPVRA
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:36 pm

Here's a picture of another single-payer system:



Now that is the word in optimality and efficiency.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPVRA
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:52 pm



Quoting N104UA (Reply 41):
Look how easy of a decision Single Payer is

Doesn't get much simpler than a patient paying their doctors directly. You're trying to capitalize on the word single, but it's also a third-party payer system, as is the current one we have.

And don't forget how the single-payer comes about:


Another area of government leading in simplicity and optimality. (notice how every single piece of paper on the board of the picture you posted is government related)
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Charles79
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:34 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 35):
Could somebody care to summarize this health care plan for those of us who do not live in the US and don't know what is in it?

Madame,

This PDF file is a good summary of the plan, simply follow the link:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/obama_plan_card.PDF

In essence, it protects people who already have insurance by capping out-of-pocket expenses and prohibiting insurance companies from dropping people's coverage when they get sick (a sad but real practice in the US). Moreover, it creates a "Public Option" which provides coverage for those who can't afford insurance or suddenly lost their coverage due to a change in employment. Additionally, the current bill does not require anyone to drop or change their existing insurance, so if you are satisfied with what you have right now then nothing will change. As for a start date, some of the provisions aimed at those currently insured would take immediate effect, with the "Public Option" plan having a target start date of 2013.

As per your follow-up post you are correct, the measure now moves to the Senate where it is still not a certainty that it will pass.

Hope this helps!
 
Continental
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:07 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 39):

The question still stands - Who is the thoughtless one, the one who wants something regardless of cost, or those who try to balance cost vs benefit (or at the very least know what they are)?

I was referring to the poster, who stated that this was a victory for socialism.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:55 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
Hopefully the Senate has the brains and balls to stop this needless, wasteful and pure socialist like agenda.



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 43):
Here's a picture of another single-payer system:

So the socialist charge continues. How is it that Hong Kong SAR, possibly one of the most free market places on the planet, continues to operate a system with top-scale public health management? In Hong Kong, nearly all inpatient care is publicly managed with additional coverage for outpatient care by a network of private hospitals. Surely they missed the socialist memo?? Incidentally they enjoy one of the highest life expectancies in the world despite greasy local food, crowded conditions, choking pollution and periodic bouts of epidemic respiratory disease!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10907
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:22 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Let's see what happens in the Senate.



Quoting Austinairport (Reply 6):
Now just can't wait to see what happens in the Senate.



Quoting Continental (Reply 12):
Very glad this bill passed! This small step towards achieving this moral imperative is exciting.



Quoting N104UA (Reply 13):
This has made this one of the greatest days ever now we just need Lieberman to fall into line and then we will have AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL

You guys need to pay attention to the story, the bill has no chance as written in the Senate and contrary to popular belief Lieberman has nothing to do with this. Many Senate Dems won't vote for it. Stop the propaganda and GOP hating and see the bill for what it is and not just a victory for Nancy Pelosi's ego.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: House Passes Health Care

Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:53 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 47):

When you don't have any country in the planet with minimum or no government intervention in health markets to compare to, it sure seems that way.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat

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