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Aaron747
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Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:03 pm

Oh, great. Certainly wouldn't want to be one of their relatives about now. Barring some incredible breakthrough, this isn't likely to turn out well for them.

The three, Shane Bauer, 27, Sarah Shourd, 31, and Josh Fattal, 27, crossed into Iran from Iraq (in July) and their families say they strayed across the border accidentally.

"The three are charged with espionage. Investigations continue into the three detained Americans in Iran," Tehran general prosecutor Abbas Jafari Dolatabadi told IRNA.

...

Under Iran's Islamic sharia law, espionage is punishable by death.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091109/ts_nm/us_iran_usa_charges
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lewis
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:46 pm

I hope they manage to get them home safe.

What I do not understand about these stories of "espionage" is that the suspects are always hikers that were caught on the wrong side of the border. if I remember correctly there was a similar case in N.Korea.

It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:00 pm



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.

Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.
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UAL747
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:07 pm

I really don't understand why these people were hiking on the Iran/Iraq border other than the thrill of trying to evade capture. It's like the kid who plays with fire, eventually he's going to get burned.

While I think the charges of "Espionage" are trumped up, due to the fact that they are westerners, and will probably be used as a bargaining chip for something, do these people ever realize what sort of compromising situation they put the US in politically on an international scale by doing these things? Not to mention it's our tax dollars that have to send an envoy in a private plane to Iran to try and get these twits out. I say they should have to pay out of pocket for sheer foolishness. Regardless of who you are and where your from, you are subject to the laws of the country you entered, illegally. The fact that US-Iran relations are always escalated doesn't help either. This isn't your typical case of border jumping like we have in the southern US.

UAL
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victrola
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:12 pm

I am sick and tired of our government having to bail out people who get in these types of situations.

Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:23 pm



Quoting Victrola (Reply 4):
Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????

A good question. Surely Turkey or even Greece offer similar terrain and climate challenges???
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:30 pm



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
at least have a portable GPS

GPS is jammed in some portions of Iraq AFAIK
 
sw733
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:46 pm



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
the suspects are always hikers that were caught on the wrong side of the border. if I remember correctly there was a similar case in N.Korea.

Not quite. In the North Korean case they were Current TV staff who crossed the border on purpose (as one of them stated to her sister, and the sister stated to the public) and then cried that they were captured illegally. Having seen Vanguard several times (the show they work for), I can see them putting out the show later saying "look, we crossed the border illegally into North Korea!"

Hiking in Iraq is a Darwin Award candidate in itself...hiking on the Iraq/Iran border just screams stupidity.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:54 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.

Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.

Especially since many of those borders are disputed. Iran may well claim that the hikers were on Iranian terrritory and will be producing maps to show this, while their own map showed that they were well within Iraqi territory.
A similar thing happened to a German sports fisherman in the straits of Hormuz, when he got caught fishing hear an island, which is claimed by both the Iran and some Arab state on the other side of the strait (I forgor which one).

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 6):

Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):
at least have a portable GPS

GPS is jammed in some portions of Iraq AFAIK

Then be able to old fashioned land navigation using compass, map and Mark 1 eyeballs.

Jan
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:21 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
Then be able to old fashioned land navigation using compass, map and Mark 1 eyeballs.

True, but then again lots of people have no sense of direction whatsoever, even with that.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:32 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Oh, great. Certainly wouldn't want to be one of their relatives about now. Barring some incredible breakthrough, this isn't likely to turn out well for them.

Come on, a deal will be made. This is simply theatre.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 4):
Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????

Very tru, go to Spain, or God knows the million other places.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Airstud
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:36 pm



Quoting Victrola (Reply 4):
I am sick and tired of our government having to bail out people who get in these types of situations.

Why the hell do people have to go to the Iraqi border with Iran to go hikijng?????

It may be that these people, though U.S. citizens, are not of pro-American sympathies and believe that they are somehow teaching the U.S. government a lesson.

Here in the Bay Area, a number of people - notably and purposefully all Caucasians - headed over to Iraq just before Dubya's invasion in 2003. Their stated position was that the Administration would be more reluctant to bomb Iraq "if they knew there were white people there."
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:27 pm



Quoting Airstud (Reply 11):
Here in the Bay Area, a number of people - notably and purposefully all Caucasians - headed over to Iraq just before Dubya's invasion in 2003. Their stated position was that the Administration would be more reluctant to bomb Iraq "if they knew there were white people there."

London sent its own contingent as well, by Routemaster bus of course...
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DocLightning
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:17 pm



Quoting Lewis (Reply 1):

It might just be me, but when you decide to hike in such areas, out of all the places around the globe, at least have a portable GPS or something and know exactly where you are. These areas are far from safe anyway.

I was going to suggest that perhaps if you want to go hiking, you can explore the many beautiful and majestic wilderness areas in regions of the globe that aren't in the middle of war, strife, and turmoil. Yosemite is a gorgeous place to hike and you could live a lifetime there without hiking the whole thing.

But then my friend Dreadnought said:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):

Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.

And I think he put it far more eloquently than I could.  Smile
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L-188
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:22 am



Quoting Airstud (Reply 11):
Here in the Bay Area, a number of people - notably and purposefully all Caucasians - headed over to Iraq just before Dubya's invasion in 2003. Their stated position was that the Administration would be more reluctant to bomb Iraq "if they knew there were white people there."

Sounds like something that would come out of the bay area. Too bad none of the got popped.

These guys had no buisness there and shouldn't have been there.

But the Iranian court is a dog a pony show under the rules of Sharia law, one of the most barbaric forms of justices to be-fell the land.
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Falcon84
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:28 am

More posturing by that government, nothing else. They'll be freed after much political wrangling ,and the Iranian regime whipping up anti-US sentiment.
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Mir
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:47 am

Well, the US government is now in a bind. On the one hand, Iran is basically holding these people for ransom, and the US shouldn't be playing that game. But on the other hand, letting them take the consequences for choosing to go hiking near the Iraq/Iran border (when Iran has a history of capturing people near their border in disputed territory) would not be very popular at home, and would give Iran quite a bit of anti-US ammunition ("they're too cowardly to stand up for their own people").

Thanks a lot.  Yeah sure

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RussianJet
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:09 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Frankly if you are hiking in places like the Iran/Iraq border, or the Korean DMZ, you should have no business reproducing.

I am inclined to agree. Very silly behaviour.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 7):
Not quite. In the North Korean case they were Current TV staff who crossed the border on purpose

That is but one case. There have been others.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:05 am

Arn't there better places to hike at.
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victrola
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:28 pm

As I mentioned before, I think these hikers were idiots. However, we need to start making Iran pay a price for their little games. Perhaps we could arrest some Iranian journalist on some technical charge. We could find something wrong with the visas of Iranian UN officials, we could detain Iranian ships on the high seas for some reason or another. Every time they take a provocative action, we need to do something to humiliate them.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:34 pm



Quoting Victrola (Reply 19):
As I mentioned before, I think these hikers were idiots. However, we need to start making Iran pay a price for their little games

Wrong president to do that, which is why they behaving in the manner they are behaving. They are going to push us until he shows some backbone. Or until Netanyahu blows them off the map.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:43 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Wrong president to do that, which is why they behaving in the manner they are behaving.

BS, pure and simple. They've been playing these games with us for years, no matter if it has been a Democratic or Republican president.

And, NIK, I'm sure you think this is worth firing some missiles at them, or sending attack planes into that country to kill some people, but most Americans, I believe, don't see it that way. It's a game with them, and it's like playing with a toddler who doesn't know better.
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DocLightning
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:42 am



Quoting Victrola (Reply 19):
Every time they take a provocative action, we need to do something to humiliate them.

The action to humiliate them would be to send in some Special Ops and liberate the prisoners, break their prison and release some of Iran's Most Wanted, and then parade our people around on TV safe back in the U.S.
-Doc Lightning-

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fca767
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:25 am



Quoting UAL747 (Reply 3):
Not to mention it's our tax dollars that have to send an envoy in a private plane to Iran to try and get these twits out. I say they should have to pay out of pocket for sheer foolishness

But Say if I went around the world...I wouldn't expect Tax Payers to pay me out of the country...If I got caught illegally then that's between me and that country, that's what I think anyway, so not asking for anything from anyone  Smile
 
NIKV69
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:06 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
BS, pure and simple. They've been playing these games with us for years, no matter if it has been a Democratic or Republican president

Unfortunately it is true, his passive behavior and reluctance to let them know their behavior won't stand has only bred this situation. It's known fact you will follow Obama right into the garbage can right up till the end but it's time to start seeing the truth.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
I'm sure you think this is worth firing some missiles at them, or sending attack planes into that country to kill some people, but most Americans, I believe, don't see it that way. It's a game with them, and it's like playing with a toddler who doesn't know better

You make a real poor analogy for a situation that includes a terrorist regime who is not only developing weapons to inflict major damage but is willing to use them but when the time comes Israel will do what needs to be done since Obama won't but this is far worse than being a game. Why don't you go live in Israel for awhile and see how it is.

Quoting Victrola (Reply 19):
Perhaps we could arrest some Iranian journalist on some technical charge. We could find something wrong with the visas of Iranian UN officials, we could detain Iranian ships on the high seas for some reason or another. Every time they take a provocative action, we need to do something to humiliate them.

Oh yea give them an excuse, great idea.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
The action to humiliate them would be to send in some Special Ops and liberate the prisoners, break their prison and release some of Iran's Most Wanted, and then parade our people around on TV safe back in the U.S.

Your not serious are you?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:11 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 24):
Why don't you go live in Israel for awhile and see how it is.

Israel is causing their own problems by using a stick when a carrot is a better approach. We would be best to do the same.

Violence begets violence. It *NEVER* makes an enemy just lie down and shut up.
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sw733
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:34 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
That is but one case. There have been others.

Yes, that is but one case...the one he was talking about...thus my talking about it.
 
aero145
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espiona

Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:44 pm

Well good that Iran charged them with espionage, noone in his right mind goes hiking in Iraq and accidentally wanders so far over the border that he’ll be found. I mean, please!  sarcastic  Of all places, Iraq, close to the Iranian border, is just d u m b.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espionage

Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:56 pm



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 27):
Well good that Iran charged them with espionage, noone in his right mind goes hiking in Iraq and accidentally wanders so far over the border that he’ll be found. I mean, please! Of all places, Iraq, close to the Iranian border, is just d u m b.



This has to be the funniest post ever on anet. You don't think we can get info from other methods such as satellite, spies or otherwise? We don't need to place 3 people on the border with no protection or backup so as to easily be captured.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
aero145
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RE: Iran Charges Lost American Hikers With Espiona

Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:06 pm

And I thought somebody would think I had been serious. Oh well, maybe better luck next time.  Silly

On another note, why hike there? Of all places? Just really, explanations...

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