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Aaron747
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Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:29 pm

I knew this would come up sooner or later - now apparently Emanuel has been working his tough guy magic behind the scenes to get Senate Dems to block provisions in the healthcare bill for immigrant access to the plan. Now the Hispanic caucus is up in arms. Let the infighting and sniping begin!  Yeah sure

In all seriousness, this is exactly what is wrong with Congress. Why do we need all these caucuses and PACs?? In both parties all they do is create bloat and time-wasting on all this he said/they said/we said nonsense. Shouldn't these morons on Capitol Hill be spending their valuable time more wisely? Rhetorical question, I know, but this garbage really turns my stomach.

Hispanic lawmakers say there is little doubt in their mind where the president’s increasingly tough stance on undocumented workers and their families originates.

“He still thinks immigration will defeat Democrats,” said a CHC member who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

...

Members of the CHC continue to hint that they may vote against a final health care bill if the Senate’s provision comes back to them in a health care bill.


Ouch so now the Hispanic bloc is going to play hardball with the White House?? Sounds like they're just getting started on this one.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29748.html
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DocLightning
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:28 pm

Here's my issue with not covering illegal immigrants:

What do I do when I have an illegal immigrant who shows up in my ER who's just taken a pickaxe to the back? Yes, I have had an undocumented 17yo kid show up in my ER who had just taken a pickaxe to the back when I worked in the Bronx. Fortunately for him, the pickaxe just bounced off his scapula, but had it not, he could have had a spinal injury or a punctured lung and that's expensive.

I can't just let him die. That's illegal and violates the Hippocratic Oath. But the operation to fix his lung is not going to be cheap and it needs to be done RIGHT NOW.

So who pays for it?
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Flighty
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:37 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
But the operation to fix his lung is not going to be cheap and it needs to be done RIGHT NOW.

So who pays for it?

Of course emergency care is paid for just as it is (or is not) paid for now.

The point is, routine care / appointments would be made on a basis of either coverage, or on a cash basis. Foreign visitors should be invited to use our medical system for cash payment. In emergency cases, they can receive care for "free," although they should be sent a bill. Or they should feel free to buy insurance. But our government would not supply such insurance to them, for example on the basis of poverty. The most responsible foreign visitors (such as tourists) do have insurance for their visit.

What do we do when we travel to Europe on vacation? One supposes we either pay in cash for our visit, or care may be given for free.
 
seb146
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:06 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I can't just let him die. That's illegal and violates the Hippocratic Oath. But the operation to fix his lung is not going to be cheap and it needs to be done RIGHT NOW.

So who pays for it?

And that is fine. But, in Wasco County, Oregon, there was (is?) a clinic sponsored by the county for Spanish speaking people only at low or no cost. They recieve routine care, basic medications and prescriptions. But, if you are white, you recieve no care at that clinic and must go to the ER or make an appointment with the regular clinic. Yes, they were covering illegals. Is that right for us to pay for people who are not citizens of this country when there are so many who were born and raised in this country that can not afford any kind of health care at all?
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NIKV69
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:10 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
So who pays for it?

The American company that employed him.
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mham001
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:52 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
The American company that employed him.

Ouch.
 
CaliAtenza
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:08 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):

So who pays for it?

we do, the taxpayers. Every time an illegal comes in the ER, they have to be treated, regardless of whether or not they can afford it. Same thing with homeless people. I should know, i worked in one of my local ER's over the summer rounding with the doctors.
 
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:26 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
In all seriousness, this is exactly what is wrong with Congress. Why do we need all these caucuses and PACs?? In both parties all they do is create bloat and time-wasting on all this he said/they said/we said nonsense.

"Should we spend money on this cause, or should we spend money on that cause? I don't know, I guess we'll have to spend money on both of them!"  Yeah sure

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Aaron747
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:28 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I can't just let him die. That's illegal and violates the Hippocratic Oath. But the operation to fix his lung is not going to be cheap and it needs to be done RIGHT NOW.

So who pays for it?

The system in Japan's NHS is pretty straight-forward. If you're an illegal immigrant or are otherwise not enrolled in NHS (which is slightly under 1% of the population) you have to pay cash in full for your care. If you can't pay, they call the cops, in which case deportation is usually the end result once the Ministry of Foreign Affairs gets involved. Though that raises the question of who ultimately pays since I doubt they bill the home country. But fortunately with such dire consequences for getting caught, even most illegal immigrants here have enrolled in NHS. They are still able to pay premiums in most cases due to the factory work they come here for.

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):

"Should we spend money on this cause, or should we spend money on that cause? I don't know, I guess we'll have to spend money on both of them!"

It's the height of idiocy.
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WarRI1
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:36 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
It's the height of idiocy.

I agree, and that is what we seem to be very good at these days, idiocy. Sad!
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Airstud
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:37 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I have had an undocumented 17yo kid show up in my ER who had just taken a pickaxe to the back

The thing that pisses one off the most about urban crime and gang activity is when innocent kids get caught in the crossfire. Good kids who've never had nor wanted anything to do with gangs get taken down by a bullet on their way to school, fired by some gang member...

The fact that this sometimes happens does not mean that every time a youth in the city sustains an injury from violence, he was an innocent caught in the crossfire.

Therefore, before I can tell you Doc, what you were supposed to do, I require rather an explanation of the circumstances by which the pickaxe arrived in the youth's back.

The lengthier the explanation, the better.
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WarRI1
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:58 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
"Should we spend money on this cause, or should we spend money on that cause? I don't know, I guess we'll have to spend money on both of them!"

We will find out, the Senate passed the bill on to full debate, it is about time. 60 to 39 surprise, surprise.
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jcs17
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:04 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Here's my issue with not covering illegal immigrants:

What do I do when I have an illegal immigrant who shows up in my ER who's just taken a pickaxe to the back? Yes, I have had an undocumented 17yo kid show up in my ER who had just taken a pickaxe to the back when I worked in the Bronx. Fortunately for him, the pickaxe just bounced off his scapula, but had it not, he could have had a spinal injury or a punctured lung and that's expensive.

I can't just let him die. That's illegal and violates the Hippocratic Oath. But the operation to fix his lung is not going to be cheap and it needs to be done RIGHT NOW.

So who pays for it?

Under our current system, I have no qualms with the taxpayer having to pick up the hospital tab. It is what it is. It sucks, it's costly, it's unfair, but unfortunately our government tends to treat illegal immigration as a necessary evil. We shouldn't refuse treatment to illegals, the homeless, etc. However, if a person doesn't have a valid social security number, and they seek treatment in a hospital, the hospital should report this person to the INS. Once the doctor allows release, the illegal immigrant should be taken into custody for deportation.
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NIKV69
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:29 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
If you're an illegal immigrant or are otherwise not enrolled in NHS (which is slightly under 1% of the population) you have to pay cash in full for your care. If you can't pay, they call the cops, in which case deportation is usually the end result once the Ministry of Foreign Affairs gets involved

Now thats a concept!
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Ken777
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:41 am

It's time for a review of our immigration policies and laws.

To be blunt, I believe that one primary reason why people don't want Hispanics slipping across the border is that at some point they will become citizens. Lots of concern about whites being the minority before too long.

So maybe it is time for a new level of guest worker program, where immigrants get their work card, can live in the US legally AS LONG AS THEY PAY TAXES each year that demonstrates they are able to support themselves. Part of that tax pays their health insurance premiums, relieving a large burden for other taxpayers.

The catch? The work card does not lead to citizenship, nor can a worker using the program become citizens in the future.

Now, the only difference between a legal worker and a citizen would be the right to vote. I never thought of becoming an Australian citizen when we lived there, nor has my wife of 40 years thought of becoming a US citizen. Besides voting it really doesn't make any difference.

I believe that this type of approach sets aside the biggest fear of Hispanics and will generate taxes as that payment keeps them legal.

Then we can stop worrying about providing health care and schooling for "legal immigrants".
 
Flighty
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:52 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
Lots of concern about whites being the minority before too long.

Maybe, but it's just not fair.

For every million people we deport, we should let another million in through legal and fair immigration visas. That should make it an argument about fairness and not about race.

There are people all over the globe who would like to begin a new life in the USA. No group should have an unfair advantage.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
The catch? The work card does not lead to citizenship, nor can a worker using the program become citizens in the future.

That creates 2 classes of Americans for the first time. I hope we don't go there. Let's not be like Saudi Arabia. I would rather admit as many immigrants as we think we need, and let them become citizens. That is fine. Just don't give that reward to foreign visitors who broke the rules, and believe that is how it is done.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:13 am



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
To be blunt, I believe that one primary reason why people don't want Hispanics slipping across the border is that at some point they will become citizens. Lots of concern about whites being the minority before too long.

So maybe it is time for a new level of guest worker program, where immigrants get their work card, can live in the US legally AS LONG AS THEY PAY TAXES each year that demonstrates they are able to support themselves. Part of that tax pays their health insurance premiums, relieving a large burden for other taxpayers.

The catch? The work card does not lead to citizenship, nor can a worker using the program become citizens in the future.

Now, the only difference between a legal worker and a citizen would be the right to vote. I never thought of becoming an Australian citizen when we lived there, nor has my wife of 40 years thought of becoming a US citizen. Besides voting it really doesn't make any difference.

I believe that this type of approach sets aside the biggest fear of Hispanics and will generate taxes as that payment keeps them legal.

Then we can stop worrying about providing health care and schooling for "legal immigrants".

Their is no fear of hispanics. They do the jobs Americans won't and they should he handled like any other immigrant. Legally entering the country on a work visa where they should be taxed like any other worker and then can benefit from any healthcare system as long as they are not illegal. After which if they want to go through the system and become citizens so be it.
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:49 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):

Their is no fear of hispanics.

Is that why towns with high numbers of Hispanics keep declaring the official town language as English?
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seb146
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:50 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 15):
That creates 2 classes of Americans for the first time. I hope we don't go there.

I hate to tell you, but we are already there. There are always illegals waiting for work in front of Home Depot and along some of the streets around here. Do they get paid by the hour and have taxes taken out and get a lunch break and rest periods?
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DocLightning
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:18 pm



Quoting Airstud (Reply 10):

Therefore, before I can tell you Doc, what you were supposed to do, I require rather an explanation of the circumstances by which the pickaxe arrived in the youth's back.

There's a lot of violence towards illegal immigrants, especially from 2nd generation kids whose parents were illegal immigrants. They form gangs and beat up on illegal immigrants. Don't ask me why; it doesn't make any sense.

Kid was minding his own business when he got beat up by a gang of such kids.
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NIKV69
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:11 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Is that why towns with high numbers of Hispanics keep declaring the official town language as English

So what? Personally I believe any person who immigrates here should learn the language. Stop throwing out these scare bombs. They really serve no purpose. If a town feels immigrants should learn the language that is their choice. It doesn't mean they are scared of anyone.
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seb146
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:58 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
They form gangs and beat up on illegal immigrants. Don't ask me why; it doesn't make any sense.

I don't understand that feeling, either. My father and his siblings (save one) were all born in this country. One was born in Ireland. They all hated immigrants, no matter where they were from. It *may* be that these second generation that are being violent want to show people they are "American" and that those that are not "American" are not worthy. Sad.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
If a town feels immigrants should learn the language that is their choice. It doesn't mean they are scared of anyone.

I have never been able to find anywhere in the Constitution that says the official language of this country is English. It is the most widely used, obviously, but no where, but no where does it say we all BY LAW have to speak English.
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Airstud
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:06 am

If a person has made a decision to make the United States their permanent home, then (regardless of the legality of how they go about it) I think it's irresponsible of them not to learn English.

I was "shamed" by my politically correct friends for not having learned any French prior to my visit to Québec City. And maybe it was shameful of me not to do that, ahead of my three-day visit.

Those same politically correct folks, for some reason, don't think the shame extends to people who don't learn any English prior to their 30-, 40-, 50-, 80-year "visits" to the United States.

Why is that? Why shame only one of two identical sides of a coin?

[Edited 2009-11-22 17:24:00]
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NIKV69
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:12 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 21):
I have never been able to find anywhere in the Constitution that says the official language of this country is English. It is the most widely used, obviously, but no where, but no where does it say we all BY LAW have to speak English

Ok, I am not going to enter in this debate but if a country was nice enough to afford me entry and a much better life I would make it my business to learn the language. Not stand on some ritual like you would. That is just me.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 22):
If a person has made a decision to make the United States their permanent home, then (regardless of the legality of how they go about it) I think it's irresponsible of them not to learn English

Your right by Seb146 is trying to win a propaganda battle here. Of course you should learn english if you move here. Nobody is saying you have to abandon your native language but my father learned English when he got here. So now he speaks two languages. It's only right.
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STT757
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:02 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
now apparently Emanuel has been working his tough guy magic behind the scenes to get Senate Dems to block provisions in the healthcare bill for immigrant access to the plan.

Good.
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:43 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Their is no fear of hispanics. They do the jobs Americans won't

That's only because they're illegal. Otherwise they would be as picky as born Americans.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 21):
I have never been able to find anywhere in the Constitution that says the official language of this country is English. It is the most widely used, obviously, but no where, but no where does it say we all BY LAW have to speak English.

Sorry Seb146, while I've got your point, I have to disagree with you. I'm a naturalized Canadian, AKA immigrant. For me it was the most natural thing to learn the most widely used language of my new home country. As a matter of fact, I'm unhappy that I didn't manage to learn some French too. So I just can't understand the logic behind not speaking the language of your new home. NIKV69 was right when he wrote:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Personally I believe any person who immigrates here should learn the language.

Not adhering to this may lead to problems (experience from my own wider family)
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Aaron747
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:56 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 21):

I have never been able to find anywhere in the Constitution that says the official language of this country is English. It is the most widely used, obviously, but no where, but no where does it say we all BY LAW have to speak English.

Irrelevant. The official language is meaningless in a country like the US that's why there isn't one. There is however a dominant functional lingua franca that virtually all native-born citizens speak and understand, and that's standard American English. In only the most exceptional circumstances in ethnic neighborhoods of large cities, it's the language of contracts, business transactions, and everything else that matters before law.

Nobody's suggesting that people be required to use English in every circumstance, but they are far better off if they do, and by that fact, they SHOULD. If they don't, they are plain irresponsible as they are inconveniencing both themselves and other Americans.

Japanese usage is not required by LAW either, and plenty of government and other services are available for me in English. But with rare exception, good luck renting an apartment, entering into a contract or any other important life matter without functional knowledge of Japanese. That's just the way of it.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Personally I believe any person who immigrates here should learn the language.

Now all that I posted above, it is actually quite difficult for some people to learn, depending on background. It's not an excuse but it's an explanation for why it takes some longer than others. I had only three months notice before moving here and that certainly wasn't enough time to get up to speed on daily Japanese usage, much less reading or writing - due to work and family obligations the latter have taken fully four years to reach what's probably a 4th grader's ability.

For those who come from countries with languages similar to English there really isn't much excuse but for other parts of the world the differences in structure and delivery of many languages make it pretty difficult to master even intermediate level English without major time and effort.

Quoting Airstud (Reply 22):
Why is that? Why shame only one of two identical sides of a coin?

Good question.
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NIKV69
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:03 pm



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 25):
That's only because they're illegal. Otherwise they would be as picky as born Americans.

I disagree, I have worked in two industries that use migrant labor as major percentage of their workforce and I have never seen more hardworking, dedicated, dependable people when it comes to their jobs. Or the most thankful to have it. Sure if some are offered to move up they do but I don't see any difference between the illegals or legal workers. They simply want a honest wage for an honest days work so they can feed their family.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
Irrelevant. The official language is meaningless in a country like the US that's why there isn't one. There is however a dominant functional lingua franca that virtually all native-born citizens speak and understand, and that's standard American English. In only the most exceptional circumstances in ethnic neighborhoods of large cities, it's the language of contracts, business transactions, and everything else that matters before law.

Nobody's suggesting that people be required to use English in every circumstance, but they are far better off if they do, and by that fact, they SHOULD. If they don't, they are plain irresponsible as they are inconveniencing both themselves and other Americans.

Japanese usage is not required by LAW either, and plenty of government and other services are available for me in English. But with rare exception, good luck renting an apartment, entering into a contract or any other important life matter without functional knowledge of Japanese. That's just the way of it.

 checkmark 
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EA772LR
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:18 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 3):
Is that right for us to pay for people who are not citizens of this country when there are so many who were born and raised in this country that can not afford any kind of health care at all?

 checkmark 

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 6):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):

So who pays for it?

we do, the taxpayers. Every time an illegal comes in the ER, they have to be treated, regardless of whether or not they can afford it. Same thing with homeless people. I should know, i worked in one of my local ER's over the summer rounding with the doctors.

 checkmark 

As well, this whole business about English being the declared language...uh what's wrong with that?? This is an English speaking country. Please do not come here and try to change this country to suit your own needs. When you come here, you should embrace OUR language and OUR culture. It would be like me going to Japan, and expecting them to speak English to me, and accept my American cultural preferences. It's absolutely ridiculously that anyone would expect America to adapt one's own individual culture.
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seb146
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:43 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
There is however a dominant functional lingua franca that virtually all native-born citizens speak and understand, and that's standard American English. In only the most exceptional circumstances in ethnic neighborhoods of large cities, it's the language of contracts, business transactions, and everything else that matters before law.

Nik, Wildcat, and Aaron: I understand that legally, English is the language. For entering contracts and such. But, I am talking about every day life. I worked at Taco Bell, where there were a lot of Spanish and Russian speaking people. Us English speakers taught our language to the immigrants and those from Central America and Russia tought their languages to us. They even interviewed and filled out their applications in their native languages.

Maybe, instead of assuming that every person that goes before a court or goes into a hospital is a legal citizen of this country, we should check their citizenship status first or at the same time?
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DocLightning
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:47 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):

Ok, I am not going to enter in this debate

There is no debate. The fact is that the United States of America recognizes no official language. That is a fact. It is not open to debate.

The de fact

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 21):

I don't understand that feeling, either. My father and his siblings (save one) were all born in this country. One was born in Ireland. They all hated immigrants, no matter where they were from. It *may* be that these second generation that are being violent want to show people they are "American" and that those that are not "American" are not worthy. Sad.

It doesn't make sense to me, either. If your parents are illegals, why are you beating up illegals?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 28):
Please do not come here and try to change this country to suit your own needs.

Except that's exactly what we did some 400 years ago. We are a nation of immigrants. Furthermore, I assure you that if you were to go back to 1776 and try to talk to George Washington, you would have a very hard time understanding each-other. In fact, you might be convinced that you weren't speaking the same language!

Your feeling of stability is an illusion. America has always been changing and it will always be changing. America belongs to all of her citizens and it is for all of us to decide what changes will happen.
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EA772LR
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:25 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):

Your feeling of stability is an illusion. America has always been changing and it will always be changing. America belongs to all of her citizens and it is for all of us to decide what changes will happen.

That's hogwash. The basic principles for which we grew to be the strongest nation in the world came from:

A. A common language.
B. A free-enterprise capitalist system.
C. Our Constitution (which is NOT a living breathing document, as much as liberals would like it to be so.)

As I said before, I would NEVER go to a foreign country, with different customs and language and expect them to compromise their culture for mine. I would learn to speak their language, and adopt their customs as much as necessary.
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:42 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 15):
That creates 2 classes of Americans for the first time.

There would be one group (Americans) and a second group (immigrants) - no different than now. All that we would be doing is requiring payment of various taxes in order to retain the "workers card".

To be blunt, I never thought I was a second class person during the eight years we lived in Australia, nor has anyone treated my wife as a second class person during her years in the US.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
After which if they want to go through the system and become citizens so be it.

That's been the sticking problem so far. I believe that most people would be more open to increasing worker immigration if the potential for citizenship is not included.

And I'm not talking about changing the current program, which does lead to citizenship, if desired. That would stay.
 
MSNDC9
Posts: 202
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:58 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
What do I do when I have an illegal immigrant who shows up in my ER who's just taken a pickaxe to the back?

We can't control illegal immigration now. Providing yet another incentive for coming to America isn't going to help. We cannot afford it to insure people from another country coming in droves, let alone cover our own.
 
Flighty
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:57 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 32):
To be blunt, I never thought I was a second class person during the eight years we lived in Australia, nor has anyone treated my wife as a second class person during her years in the US.

Yeah, but, those are 2 friendly rich Western nations. Both countries deny unlimited immigrants from say, India.

I take your point that we already have illegal immigrants who do not enjoy formal rights. Yes that is a problem. But I do not like the idea of "temporary workers" at all -- not when they stay 30+ years and have a family. They either need green cards or a ticket out of the country.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:33 pm



Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 33):

We can't control illegal immigration now. Providing yet another incentive for coming to America isn't going to help. We cannot afford it to insure people from another country coming in droves, let alone cover our own.

You're not answering my question: what am I supposed to do with him? Screw immigration. Screw insurance. Screw official languages.

I have a 17yo kid with a pickaxe wound to the back in front of me RIGHT NOW in my ER. What do I do FIRST?

a) Ask for his papers
b) Ask for his insurance
c) Call INS
d) Take care of the patient
e) Let him die
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Ken777
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RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:08 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
But I do not like the idea of "temporary workers" at all -- not when they stay 30+ years and have a family. They either need green cards or a ticket out of the country.

Personally I love the idea as they would start paying taxes. As Martha would say, "That's a good thing."

I also believe that a lot of these workers would be happy to be here long enough to generate sufficient assets to be comfortable "back home". That incentive to be higher on the home town (village) financial ladder would also be increased if they paid FICA and qualified, based on the levels of their payments.
 
seb146
Posts: 14876
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:34 am



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 31):
A. A common language.

Tell that to the immigrants who grew up speaking something other than English until they entered grade school. My father, for example, spoke German at home. My best friend, when I was growing up, spoke Spanish at home. Even my dialect of English is different than that of the Bayou!

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 31):
B. A free-enterprise capitalist system.

Have you tried to start a business lately?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 31):
C. Our Constitution (which is NOT a living breathing document, as much as liberals would like it to be so.)

Really? They had internet in 1787? They had automatic weapons in 1787? Muslims in large numbers? CO2 emissions?
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
ual777
Posts: 1583
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Democrat Infighting: Ethnic Health Care

Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:10 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 35):

a) Ask for his papers
b) Ask for his insurance
c) Call INS
d) Take care of the patient
e) Let him die

D, then b, a, and finally c.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.

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