Falcon84
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46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:33 am

The day that the U.S., probably forever, lost it's innocence. The days where Television became the indespensible news item; the days where we united as a nation in a way that only 9/11 can compare with since.

46 Years ago today, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. We've discussed, more than a few time on here, if we believe there was a conspiracy or not, and if Lee Harvey Oswald was the gunman or acted alone.

But in this one, let's try to guess at a history that never was: what would have the nation been like had John Kennedy not been murdered on that day? What would have happened with Civil Rights? Vietnam? Our trust (and today, lack thereof) in our government? Our relationship with the Soviet Union and Cuba?

Personally, I don't think we would have ever gotten involved in Vietnam the way we ended up doing under President Johnson. I think our role would have been more or less an advisory role, and maybe some combat airpower, and that's it.

Ironically, Civil Rights legislation might have taken a bit longer that iat did under LBJ, because that legislation was spurred by the death of Kennedy. It would have passed, no doubt, but it might have taken different form.

I do believe without an expanded Vietnam War, and with Kennedy and Kruschchev, after the Cuban Crisis, coming to respect one another and seeing that the arms race was a futile cause, the US and USSR might have reached agreements a lot sooner on Strategic Arms limitations and reductions.

As for trust in government, who knows? JFK did have his secrets, no doubt, but that was more on a personal side than on a political one. Perhaps our faith in government wouldn't be where it is today. Had he lived, there's a good chance that the '68 election would have gone differently, and Watergate would never have happened, That even, along with the war in Vietham, forever soured our faith and trust in our government.

Your thoughts.
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L-188
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:01 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Personally, I don't think we would have ever gotten involved in Vietnam the way we ended up doing under President Johnson. I think our role would have been more or less an advisory role, and maybe some combat airpower, and that's it.

I disagree, most people remember the quote from that interview Kennedy did that where he said the Vietnamese needed to win it on their own. They take it as sign he wanted to pull out.

They don't remember the very next sentence where he pledged continued support.
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Tiger119
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:19 pm

There was talk afterward about the possibility of the repeal of the 22nd amendment. A large number of people thought that much of JFK.

I also heard that there were no murders in the U.S. for the following three days after the assassination (but I have no idea who would know such a thing).

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ltbewr
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:38 am

I noticed very little in the USA media as to the fateful anniversary of the assassination of then President John F. Kennedy, but there was an story of about what would be one of his nephews, Patrick Kennedy, a US Congressmember from Rhode Island. The Roman Catholic Bishop of Providence, RI, declared that he cannot be given the Sacrament of Communion due to his support of legal Abortion. What probably triggered this ban was his objections to the attempts to have a ban on any Federal payments for abortion services in any Federal health care insurance programs. Isn't that ironic?

There were two new documentary programs in the last few month or so on the History Channel that used news video and audio tapes and film taken during and in the days following the assassination of JFK including as to his alleged and arrested murderer. As an 9 year old at the time of the Assassination and the aftermath, I recall that day and the subsequent days very well, probably like younger persons will recall 9/11/2001.
 
Falcon84
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:47 am



Quoting L-188 (Reply 1):
I disagree, most people remember the quote from that interview Kennedy did that where he said the Vietnamese needed to win it on their own. They take it as sign he wanted to pull out.

They don't remember the very next sentence where he pledged continued support.

As I said, I believe we would have given them aid, and some support, but I don't think we would have ended up in an all-encompasing conflict like we did for the next decade.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
I noticed very little in the USA media as to the fateful anniversary of the assassination of then President John F. Kennedy,

We'll hear a lot in 2013, on the 50th anniversary, trust me.
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RNOcommctr
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:11 am

I will not speculate on how history might have been changed had JFK not been assassinated. But I will say, that as a 13-year old in 1963, I was inspired by his great speeches, many of which challenged us to be better, more involved citizens, thereby helping to build this nation and its reputation around the world. I think JFK's speeches were the best of any president in the last 60 years.

I lived in the DC area at the time of the assassination, and when JFK's body was lying in state in the Capitol rotunda, my folks took the whole family to see the casket. We waited in the cold until 4:00 a.m., but it is an experience I will never forget.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:06 pm

It already was deep at night in Europe when it happened. Only people who got the latest news bulletin learnt about it on the same day. Most however learnt it in the early morning news at 6am or 7am. And as most people did not yet have TV, over the radio anyway. In Switzerland, it was the top point of the career of radio correspondent Heiner Gautschy, who from New York informed his country about the matter. And while the morning papers only had things like "assassination attempt against JFK. JFK transferred to hospital ....." the evening paper had it in full. And of course, radio in the evening had just one topic. On 24th November, a Saturday, our teacheress right at 8am told us that the program was changed. The actual program was shortened from 3 hours to 1 hour and 20 minutes. And then she informed us about US history, US constitution, US laws, the constitutional process, and all the relevant details of the assassination, so that, when going home at 11am, we all had become small specialists on the subject ! The good lady had heard about the assassination at midnight and had spent the rest of the night researching !
 
PSA53
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:08 pm

First,I believe,if Kennedy survived,he would have been a two term president.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):

Ironically, Civil Rights legislation might have taken a bit longer that iat did under LBJ, because that legislation was spurred by the death of Kennedy. It would have passed, no doubt, but it might have taken different form.

I agree.Kennedy seemed be more on the defensive or reactionary to this issue. So,Johnson was in the proper place in time with this issue.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
t already was deep at night in Europe when it happened. Only people who got the latest news bulletin learnt about it on the same day. Most however learnt it in the early morning news at 6am or 7am. And as most people did not yet have TV, over the radio anywa

Technology was pretty primitive at that time.I watch the events on beautiful black and white TV while my Grandfather was in Mexico,no TV where he was,got the news on shortwave radio.

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Personally, I don't think we would have ever gotten involved in Vietnam the way we ended up doing under President Johnson. I think our role would have been more or less an advisory role, and maybe some combat airpower, and that's it.

There's good justified discussion on both sides of which way Vietnam would have gone.All evidence seems to point to a pullout of the 16,000 advisors,but events in late '63 might have changed that opinion and increased involvement.But if Kennedy survived,he would become greatly involvement with Vietnam,BUT would have ended the war in his second term in office with union of one Vietnam.My two cents.

[Edited 2009-11-23 14:13:45 by psa53]
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rfields5421
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:08 am



Quoting PSA53 (Reply 7):
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):

Ironically, Civil Rights legislation might have taken a bit longer that iat did under LBJ, because that legislation was spurred by the death of Kennedy. It would have passed, no doubt, but it might have taken different form.

I agree.Kennedy seemed be more on the defensive or reactionary to this issue. So,Johnson was in the proper place in time with this issue.

You are right that the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Right Act would not have passed before at least 1965, more likely 1966 or 67 if Kennedy had not been killed. If Kennedy had lived it is entirely possible those laws would never have been passed.

However there are two additional important points to remember.

Lyndon Johnson was much more agressively behind civil rights legislation than Kennedy, any of the Kennedy's. He was pushing for federal intervention back before JFK came to the Senate.

JFK was a good politician, LBJ was a great politician. JFK knew in 1962/63 that the people of the US were not willing to support extensive federal intervention in the south. That the Congress would not pass federal imposed rules.

LBJ knew the opportunity to pass the laws he had been proposing for years was as a 'legacy' to the murdered president. For LBJ getting those laws passed, and the follow on federal intervention to force their compliance in the states was paramount. Being a great politician, he knew when the opportunity to push his agenda became possible.

One thing which stalled and slowed the Kennedy administration on Civil Rights was that LBJ was totally out of the decision and policy discussions. The Kennedy administration showed its stupidity no place greater than when they would not use LBJ to promote their legislative agendas.
 
Falcon84
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RE: 46th Anniversary Of JFK's Assassination

Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:41 am

quote=RFields5421,reply=8]JFK was a good politician, LBJ was a great politician.[/quote]

The biggest reason Kennedy chose Johnson as his VPOTUS was to push his agenda through the Congress. Not many men could play Congress the way LBJ could, and while he and JFK certainly collided in terms of styile and, in some way, policy matters, LBJ was always a good lieutenant, and he worked hard to push the Administration's priorities through Congress. JFK had the ball rolling when it came to Civil Rights by the time he died, but LBJ was astute enough to use the death of JFK to give the Civil Rights Act the last push that it needed.
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