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fxramper
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Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:55 pm

Free shipping on $1 coins; go ahead and use your credit card to buy 20,000 and earn those miles! The free shipping from US Mint has expired. See article for more.  rotfl 


article
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:46 pm

why do I never find out about these things until its too late???  Sad
 
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fxramper
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:10 pm



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 1):

Dunno if I beleive the guy that said he bought $800,000 in coins and now is a LTEXP with AAdvantage.

 liar 
 
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BNE
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:46 pm

Thanks for the link as I completely missed that deal. I couldn't have taken advantage of it anyway.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 2):
Dunno if I beleive the guy that said he bought $800,000 in coins and now is a LTEXP with AAdvantage.

They may already be a regular flier so with this deal and a few other bonuses and points then there is always a chance that they could be AA LTEXP (LifetimeExecutivePlatinum)
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DocLightning
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:54 am



Quoting FXramper (Reply 2):

Dunno if I beleive the guy that said he bought $800,000 in coins and now is a LTEXP with AAdvantage.

Most FF cards have a limit on how many miles you can rack up per month. I have to think that $800K is a bit over that limit.

Not to mention that I can't imagine that any credit card would let someone put $800K on it. I mean, how high can your limit be?
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Gsoshutout55
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:28 am

ever heard of the black card  Smile
 
mNeo
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:12 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Not to mention that I can't imagine that any credit card would let someone put $800K on it. I mean, how high can your limit be?

Some business cards have more than a mil as a limit, IIRC some Am Ex business cards are like that, and i think the rules on mile accumulation might be different on business accounts also, but dont quote me on that
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:14 am

I didn't rape this deal but did take advantage of a similar scheme offered by the US Mint last year. You could buy Presidential dollar coins at face value and just pay them into a bank. You were limited to $500 per president and they've only done a release for the earliest half dozen or so it wasn't nearly as lucrative as earning a million miles or anything but the principal was the same. Didn't know about the Native American coins but based on my experience it'd be a pain in the backside as the coins weigh quite a bit.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 2):
Dunno if I beleive the guy that said he bought $800,000 in coins and now is a LTEXP with AAdvantage.

Since there is no such thing as lifetime EXP, yes. From what I read it sounded like lifetime Platinum, certainly possible

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Not to mention that I can't imagine that any credit card would let someone put $800K on it. I mean, how high can your limit be?

You just pay the balance off mid cycle. That's what I ended up doing when I first got credit cards and they came with lousy limits, that and an increase of my credit limit as my spending increased with each month.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
deltairlines
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 am

Was a great deal while it lasted. Absolute genius way to milk the system - this was well known on FlyerTalk for over a year.

Now with Up in the Air out though, it seems like there's a lot more discussion about the things us FFers will do to get miles.
 
TUNisia
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:02 am

My trip to Greece can't come soon enough  Wink
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exFATboy
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:07 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):

Most FF cards have a limit on how many miles you can rack up per month. I have to think that $800K is a bit over that limit.

This was going on for at least a year, I saw it on FT and on several blogs, people were going out and getting additional cards for the sole purpose of buying these coins.

Just for example - since the $800k figure was apparently all on AA - there are multiple AA cards offered by Citi. It's very easy for one person to have the regular MasterCard, the "business" MasterCard, and the Citi-issued AAdvantage American Express card.

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 7):
I didn't rape this deal but did take advantage of a similar scheme offered by the US Mint last year. You could buy Presidential dollar coins at face value and just pay them into a bank. You were limited to $500 per president and they've only done a release for the earliest half dozen or so it wasn't nearly as lucrative as earning a million miles or anything but the principal was the same.

People were doing this with the Presidential coins too - the Mint wasn't enforcing the $500 per president limit, or at least wasn't doing it effectively, folks were using multiple credit cards, e-mail addresses, and shipping addresses.

The Mint is currently offering only the "Native American"* coins in the "Direct Ship" program, but they still have this page up on the website which mentions the Presidential coins as being in the program as well.

I actually hadn't heard about this new "Native American" coin - apparently it's the "Sacagawea" design on the front from the 2000 coin, and a new "Agriculture" theme on the back, which will change again in 2010. Apparently, somewhere in there we got a law that states that 20% of all $1 coins have to have a "Native American" motif, and that the total number of coins issued must be "sufficient for the needs of the Nation." Since Americans have consistently rejected a dollar coin all the way back to the Susan B. Anthony dollar, the actual "need of the Nation" for dollar coins is apparently zero, but that won't stop the Mint.

(The quotations around "Native American" are because: (1) humans aren't "native" to North America, and (2) my maternal grandmother, who was born on-reservation in Oklahoma {western band Cherokee} used to cringe every time she heard the term. I prefer the Canadian term "First Nations" as a "generic" all-encompassing term myself.)
 
Lufthansa411
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:38 am



Quoting MNeo (Reply 6):
Some business cards have more than a mil as a limit, IIRC some Am Ex business cards are like that, and i think the rules on mile accumulation might be different on business accounts also, but dont quote me on that

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 


When my mom used to work for a major road paving company, she had a company credit card, which had 1.25 million limit. I don't know why she needed it that high, as really the only thing that was put on it was petrol and the car the company would buy her every couple of years. Basically, the company motto was charge first, ask questions later, and that was directly correlated with the credit card limit.
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chrisair
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:15 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Not to mention that I can't imagine that any credit card would let someone put $800K on it. I mean, how high can your limit be?

You don't need to have a $800K limit. You could have a $25K limit and constantly charge/pay, charge/pay etc.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:11 am

i thought you couldn't generally use miles collected from credit cards to upgrade your status. that could only be done with flying. i know aeroplan is like that.
 
skedguy
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:10 am



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 8):
Was a great deal while it lasted. Absolute genius way to milk the system - this was well known on FlyerTalk for over a year.

Now with Up in the Air out though, it seems like there's a lot more discussion about the things us FFers will do to get miles.

The airlines aren't really getting "milked" in the purest sense. The miles you get from credit cards have already been *purchased* from the airline by the credit card issuer. If anything, it's actually the credit card company that's being screwed!!
 
Ken777
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:14 am



Quoting BNE (Reply 3):
They may already be a regular flier so with this deal and a few other bonuses and points then there is always a chance that they could be AA LTEXP

I made LifeTime Platinum and at the time was told that LTEX was not available. Figured I'd move to BA for miles on my card - was at 2.8+ Mil on AA (2 Mil to get LT Platinum). If 3 Mil gets you LTEXP then I shouldn't have moved!  Sad
 
PeterSpence
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:55 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Most FF cards have a limit on how many miles you can rack up per month. I have to think that $800K is a bit over that limit.

Not if you have already have elite status with an airline (at least AA), they do not limit the number you can accumulate ... without elite status however, you are limited to 100,000 a year with AAs AAdvantage CITI card. But, if you are Gold, Plat, or ExPlat you can get a billion miles if you'd like.

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 13):
i thought you couldn't generally use miles collected from credit cards to upgrade your status. that could only be done with flying. i know aeroplan is like that.

Negative, you can use any means most notably credit cards too towards elite status. My credit card is a big part of my elite status with AA. Spending coupled with a decent amount of flying = constant requalification!
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exFATboy
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:04 pm

Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 16):

Negative, you can use any means most notably credit cards too towards elite status. My credit card is a big part of my elite status with AA. Spending coupled with a decent amount of flying = constant requalification!

My understanding is that on AA, credit card spend only counted toward lifetime elite status, not annual qualification. I have the Citi AA MasterCard and have never seen spend count toward annual Elite status.

On CO, I get 2,000 "flex" miles a year toward elite status (if I don't need them, they roll over to the next year) because I have the "Presidential Plus" credit card, but regular spend doesn't count at all.

[Edited 2009-12-13 09:18:06 by exFATboy]
 
N1120A
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:07 pm



Quoting Lufthansa411 (Reply 11):
she had a company credit card, which had 1.25 million limit. I don't know why she needed it that high, as really the only thing that was put on it was petrol and the car the company would buy her every couple of years.

That's appreciable, but not really the subject of what you were replying to. They were talking about a limit on the miles accrued per year, which many cards have.
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PeterSpence
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:24 pm



Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 17):
My understanding is that on AA, credit card spend only counted toward lifetime elite status, not annual qualification. I have the Citi AA MasterCard and have never seen spend count toward Elite status.

It counts toward both annual requalification and lifetime status. If you sign in AA's AAdvantage part of their site, you'll see 3 ways to qualify for any level of elite status: Points, Miles, Segments. So, when you charge on your card they go into the "miles" category .... when you sign in and look under miles posted, you'll see a line that reads like this on AA "My Account" tab: "CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH" and then to get Gold, for example, you need either 25K points or 25K miles or to fly 30 segments a year. I fly just under all the mins for just flying, so the difference is made up in my spending. I only use my Citi card & just pay it off so I'm happy and Citi is happy. I hope that all made sense.
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LiquidAquifer
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:49 pm



Quoting Skedguy (Reply 14):
The airlines aren't really getting "milked" in the purest sense. The miles you get from credit cards have already been *purchased* from the airline by the credit card issuer. If anything, it's actually the credit card company that's being screwed!!

Yeah, but not entirely on its own. While credit card companies take in money from finance charges and such from when the balance isn't paid in full, they also usually take a cut of every transaction from the merchant, depending on the arrangement. (There's a reason mom-and-pop stores often frown when people make small purchases with a credit card.)

Here, the U.S. Mint agreed to eat both the cost of shipping (not insignificant; the each box of 250 coins isn't huge, but its pretty heavy for its size) and the credit card transaction fees to try to push $1 coins into wider circulation, which is a mission that has continually failed over the past few decades. The fact that people are taking boxes of coins straight from the Mint to the bank, rather than spending them normally, wasn't really their intention. So the U.S. Mint is taking a hit, too.
 
topgun3
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:19 pm



Quoting LiquidAquifer (Reply 20):
Here, the U.S. Mint agreed to eat both the cost of shipping (not insignificant; the each box of 250 coins isn't huge, but its pretty heavy for its size) and the credit card transaction fees to try to push $1 coins into wider circulation, which is a mission that has continually failed over the past few decades. The fact that people are taking boxes of coins straight from the Mint to the bank, rather than spending them normally, wasn't really their intention. So the U.S. Mint is taking a hit, too.

People seem to forget that it doesn't cost the mint $1 to make a $1 coin. They are in the business of printing money, and therefore paying the cost of shipping and credit card fees is acceptable. If I was in the business of making currency from cheap materials, I wouldn't hesitate to give people incentives to buy it from me either.

It is similar to printing fake money. You never sell it to the distributor for full face value.
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muzyck
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:23 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Most FF cards have a limit on how many miles you can rack up per month. I have to think that $800K is a bit over that limit.

Well, if he was able to unload that much coin back on the bank, he was probably not your average customer to begin with. Yes, banks are in the money business, but $800,000.00 in unwanted metal is a pain. Would love to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation."Oh, by the way, I'll be bringing in the fork lift for my next deposit"  Big grin
 
N1120A
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:31 pm



Quoting TopGun3 (Reply 21):

People seem to forget that it doesn't cost the mint $1 to make a $1 coin. They are in the business of printing money, and therefore paying the cost of shipping and credit card fees is acceptable. If I was in the business of making currency from cheap materials, I wouldn't hesitate to give people incentives to buy it from me either.

Absolutely. The Mint is probably making money on these transactions.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
N801NW
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:36 pm

In a 2006 GAO report, it said the profit on each $1 coin was 83¢.
 
N1120A
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:42 pm



Quoting N801NW (Reply 24):
In a 2006 GAO report, it said the profit on each $1 coin was 83¢.

WOW. Now we know the Mint is making a Mint on these coins. Free Shipping, credit card, doesn't matter. They are probably still making at least 60 cents.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:48 pm



Quoting PeterSpence (Reply 19):
It counts toward both annual requalification and lifetime status. If you sign in AA's AAdvantage part of their site, you'll see 3 ways to qualify for any level of elite status: Points, Miles, Segments. So, when you charge on your card they go into the "miles" category .... when you sign in and look under miles posted, you'll see a line that reads like this on AA "My Account" tab: "CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH" and then to get Gold, for example, you need either 25K points or 25K miles or to fly 30 segments a year. I fly just under all the mins for just flying, so the difference is made up in my spending. I only use my Citi card & just pay it off so I'm happy and Citi is happy. I hope that all made sense.

I'd say that is the result of one of two things...you've been the beneficiary of a promotion whereby a small portion of your credit card spending counts towards Elite Qualification Miles and that coupled with your just under 25,000 EQM per year has pushed you to earning Gold status. Or, you've been very close to earning Gold through flying alone and AA has just kept you at that level. Or maybe you're a 1MM lifetime Gold and don't know it...

It is certainly not the standard rules of the program for all credit card spend to count towards annual requalification, only lifetime status where any source of miles counts.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
LiquidAquifer
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RE: Frequent Fliers Pull A Fast One On US Mint

Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:12 am



Quoting TopGun3 (Reply 21):
People seem to forget that it doesn't cost the mint $1 to make a $1 coin. They are in the business of printing money, and therefore paying the cost of shipping and credit card fees is acceptable. If I was in the business of making currency from cheap materials, I wouldn't hesitate to give people incentives to buy it from me either.

It's still a hit. They're still throwing a lot of money at shipping with the intention of increasing circulation, which eats into their "profits." Even if they "profit" $85 for every 100 coins, spending $5 on shipping a box is still a cost. The point of offering free shipping was to increase circulation. This did not happen. The Mint effectively wasted that money, which could have been used for whatever else they spend their money on. It's not like that money simply never existed, it's just in the hands of shipping companies now.

And besides, this "profit" is known as "seigniorage." It's theoretically not exactly a "profit." Admittedly, it tends to become profit with coins, since they're not bought back, but it's not as simple as minting tons of coinage and making bank.

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