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N328KF
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Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:52 pm

So it appears that SAAB is to be liquidated, with some of the operations sold to Shanghai Automotive, and other portions being sold to Spyker. The piecemeal dismantling of SAAB has begun.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:07 pm

But what are architects going to buy now? Shame to see them go.
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na
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:44 pm

Wow, sad if true. Saab is one of my favorite car brands. I wouldnt miss anything if Dacia or Hyundai go under, but Saab?  Sad
 
Superfly
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:11 pm

Sorry to see any corporation fold and sad to see people lose their jobs.

That said, Saab has been a dead man walking for 30 years. There hasn't been a uniquely Saab design since 1979. General Motors just kept the name around longer.
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Jetsgo
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:18 pm



Quoting Na (Reply 2):
I wouldnt miss anything if Dacia or Hyundai go under, but Saab?

Still living in the 1990's I see?  Yeah sure
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petertenthije
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:20 pm



Quoting N328KF (Thread starter):
of the operations sold to Shanghai Automotive, and other portions being sold to Spyker

Do you know what part(s) Spyker intends to buy? Considering the financial situation of Spyker I wonder if Saab would not be better of with GM!
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N328KF
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:24 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 5):
Do you know what part(s) Spyker intends to buy? Considering the financial situation of Spyker I wonder if Saab would not be better of with GM!

Nope. WSJ had an article on it today (Sunday), but I won't bother quoting it, as it pretty much said "We don't know anything except that the transactions occurred." It doesn't say who got what.

It does sound to me, though, that Beiing Auto got much of the SAAB intellectual property (that which was not "licensed" from Opel) and that Spyker may be more interested in the facilities, but there was nothing concrete.

I do need to make a correction to the initial post, though. It was Beijing Automotive, not SAIC Shanghai Automotive.

[Edited 2009-12-13 17:39:09]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:11 am

I can't pretend that I'm not really angry about this. In the face of the homogenization of the transport-appliance called the car, Saab was one of the only marques that stood out.

It might have been a 'cult' car in its past but it was a damned good machine- with a pedigree that was so 'not Toyota' if you know what I mean. You knew there was passion and a sense of pride behind their product.

But then it just became another plasticky GM blob producer. It was bleached into mediocrity and blandness by a foreign corporate culture with no vision or direction and now it's lost.

I remember my first ride in a Saab- to see the ignition in the centre between the seats somehow made the ride so much more exotic.

Then to see the last Saab stationwagon- a Subaru with a Nordic badge.... yuck. That was the end of the end in my eye.

Good luck to all the autoworkers who laboured under incompetent management. I hope they all find work that support them and their families.

And good luck to Opel workers. They're not out of the woodwork yet.....
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:18 am



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 7):
Then to see the last Saab stationwagon- a Subaru with a Nordic badge.... yuck. That was the end of the end in my eye.

You think this was worse than the Trailblazer with the Saab badge?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:33 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
You think this was worse than the Trailblazer with the Saab badge?

Even the newest Saab model (the 2010 Saab 9-5) is a reskinned Opel Insignia. Sad end to the brand, IMHO.

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2010 SAAB 9-5
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mirrodie
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:38 am

I only drove a Saab once. It was a decent ride.

IIRC, wasnt their motto something about built by pilots or something to that end?

Im not a pilot, but was there anything remotely similar going from a Saab to any aircraft? Anything similar in terms of ergonomics, style, etc?

Just read:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/090f9c1e-e850-11de-8a02-00144feab49a.html

Im sorry to hear about the impending job losses.
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ltbewr
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:40 am

Yes, I guess this is one sad Saab story  ashamed 
The fact is that Saab automotive had become too much like other cars, hurt by the rise of Japanese brands, based in a country with excessively high production costs and so on. It is sad to see another brand die this year but that is reality in the car business. Skol.
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:48 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 9):
Even the newest Saab model (the 2010 Saab 9-5) is a reskinned Opel Insignia.

Is this a bad car?
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:58 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
You think this was worse than the Trailblazer with the Saab badge?

OMG- I didn't even know about that abomination.
 
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stasisLAX
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:41 am



Quoting OlegShv (Reply 12):
Is this a bad car?

Well, I haven't seen any road tests in the automotive press on the new 9-5 as of yet, but I must say that the Opel Insignia has gotten very good reviews. But the question then becomes, why pay a higher price for the Saab when the Insignia is as good a car with a cheaper pricetag?

By the way, the Insignia in the U.S. is known as the new Buick Century with an estimate base price of approximately $24K USD
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:09 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 14):
But the question then becomes, why pay a higher price for the Saab when the Insignia is as good a car with a cheaper pricetag?

Well, some people say that Audis are nothing more than gussied-up Volkswagens, but Audis still sell well despite this. (Anyone who has driven related models from both marques knows this to not be the case.)
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:10 am



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 7):
It might have been a 'cult' car in its past but it was a damned good machine- with a pedigree that was so 'not Toyota' if you know what I mean.

Saab wasn't a car for the average American consumer to think about. It cost too much.

So Saab was a good car. Volvo is a good car. But their ego got away from them when it came to pricing. Something about crossing the Atlantic, I guess, makes a car brand feel they are worth more than they are. My feeling is that the Volvo S40 is about $10,000 too expensive. Drove one for a week. Decent car, but not something worth $30,000+.

Hard reality today is that Korea is re-fucusing our attention on car pricing. They picked a good time for a surge, with our economy the way it is. Geez, even Toyota's are flopping around in the $30,000 range like they were a BMW or something.
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:15 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Well, some people say that Audis are nothing more than gussied-up Volkswagens, but Audis still sell well despite this. (Anyone who has driven related models from both marques knows this to not be the case.)

Some of the SAAB's were pretty ordinary. Take the 9-3 Viggen convertible. It might have been quick in a straight line, but a BMW 328i convertible was far superior to the torque-steering Swede, even if it did have much less power.

The reputation of the brand suffered, and here, relatively few people purchased them, flocking to Audi, VW, BMW and Mercedes Benz instead. Sad to see the brand go.  Sad
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:40 am

According to Autoweek (NL) BAIC will buy:

* production line for current 9-3
* production line for previous 9-5 (it's not yet known if production will resume)
* drive-train technology

According to the same article Spyker is still in the running to buy Saab. The article is a bit ambiguous but I think they mean the brandname/logo only.

Sorry, Dutch source only:
http://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/13...ker-nog-steeds-in-gesprek-met-Saab
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:05 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
My feeling is that the Volvo S40 is about $10,000 too expensive. Drove one for a week. Decent car, but not something worth $30,000+.

A point very well taken. But Saab didn't necessarily need to break into the American market. They were mostly a European brand for the European market- they didn't make very many cars.

Then along came GM and tried to turn it into a Europeanized Buick/Olds/Caddy seemingly to compete against VW in the US. The plan failed. Partly because of price. Partly because they became typically GM plasticky blobs with no character. How much research and innovation money was poured into Saab? I doubt much at all. Its corporate masters sucked pretty much everything, including the life-blood right out of the firm.

You might be right about Volvo- but then again.... do they make as many cars as VW for the American market too? At least Volvo continues with research and innovation. And you have to agree, they're making some of the most strikingly designed (dare I say, sexiest looking) sedans in the North American market right now.
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:27 pm



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 19):
You might be right about Volvo- but then again.... do they make as many cars as VW for the American market too? At least Volvo continues with research and innovation. And you have to agree, they're making some of the most strikingly designed (dare I say, sexiest looking) sedans in the North American market right now.

The big difference between Volvo and Saab is that Ford uses Volvo's platforms as the basis for many of their own. This is why I don't believe Ford should sell Volvo: They will lose much engineering talent.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:42 pm

The only Saab I drove was the 9-3 convertible, and I was not impress that much.

That said, it's a shame to see them disappearing from the automotive landscape.
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:49 pm

So, of all the subsidiaries that GM told the feds it was going to shed, only the sale of Hummer has come to fruition. Makes me wonder if these weren't just all pie in the sky promises made to the feds to make sure they got the bailout money.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:13 pm



Quoting Mayor (Reply 22):
So, of all the subsidiaries that GM told the feds it was going to shed, only the sale of Hummer has come to fruition. Makes me wonder if these weren't just all pie in the sky promises made to the feds to make sure they got the bailout money.

What are you talking about? Pontiac and Saturn are gone, gone, gone.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:40 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 15):
Well, some people say that Audis are nothing more than gussied-up Volkswagens, but Audis still sell well despite this.

Those people would be idiots, Audi only share two platform with the rest of the group, the Gold platform for the A4 and TT, and the Q7 uses a much modified version of the Tourag/Cayenne platform. Audi is also the most profitable member of the company.


Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 19):
At least Volvo continues with research and innovation. And you have to agree, they're making some of the most strikingly designed (dare I say, sexiest looking) sedans in the North American market right now.

I agreee and have just replaced my wifes 2008 3 series touring with a V70, it's not as much fun to drive but it's more comfortible, carries more stuff and my wife loves it, it's also a handsome beast.
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:01 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 23):
What are you talking about? Pontiac and Saturn are gone, gone, gone.

Well, we knew that Pontiac would be eliminated, but Saturn was supposed to be sold to the Penske group and that fell apart. Hummer was sold, Opel was supposed to have been sold, but apparently that is not to be and Saab was supposed to have been sold. One out of four isn't a very good record, is it?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:09 pm



Quoting Mayor (Reply 25):
Opel was supposed to have been sold, but apparently that is not to be and Saab was supposed to have been sold. One out of four isn't a very good record, is it?

I think selling Opel would have been a mistake, for the same reason that it would be a mistake for Ford to sell Volvo.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:28 pm



Quoting N328KF (Reply 26):
I think selling Opel would have been a mistake, for the same reason that it would be a mistake for Ford to sell Volvo.

Well, that's true, but I wonder if the original intent was to actually sell Opel or just make it seem that way to make it more palatable to the Feds. Same goes for Saturn and Saab.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:15 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 10):
Even the newest Saab model (the 2010 Saab 9-5) is a reskinned Opel Insignia. Sad end to the brand, IMHO.

That's an unfair statement. The older Saab 9-5 based on the Opel vectra was one of the safest car money could buy. The vectra was not. Actually it won in crash safety based on real accident statistics several years in a row in Sweden. It's still a very safe car even though Toyota Avensis took the price last year. I believe the new 9-5 has some of that world class safety left.
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:53 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
. But their ego got away from them when it came to pricing. Something about crossing the Atlantic, I guess, makes a car brand feel they are worth more than they are. My feeling is that the Volvo S40 is about $10,000 too expensive.

Ken, I totally agree with you. GM ruined Saab partly because they stickered the cars WAY too expensive.

The 9-3 for example today stickers up to $45,000. That is a silly joke. The tooling on the 9-3 is old and paid for. Also, how much extra does it cost to produce the deluxe model vs standard? Nothing really.

Saab 9-3 cost maybe $25,000 to make (or less). If they sold them from $20,000 at the low end, to $30,000 at the high end, this would have increased their volume by 300% or so. They could have done this. But instead they had a really poor pricing schedule that priced them out of the American market.

Clearly the 9-3 is not as good as a BMW 3 series. It does not belong at the $40,000 level. But against $22,000 cars, the 9-3 is really very nice. Fortunately, in the used car market these machines are very cheap. They also have performance that no Honda is going to match.
 
matthew11
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:16 am

It is sad to see the Saab brand go. I own a Saab 9-5, it is a great car. Drove it across Canada for 33 hours...it was a smooth ride all the way and is still holding up well. Very safe and reliable!
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MAH4546
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:13 am

Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 19):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
My feeling is that the Volvo S40 is about $10,000 too expensive. Drove one for a week. Decent car, but not something worth $30,000+.

A point very well taken. But Saab didn't necessarily need to break into the American market. They were mostly a European brand for the European market- they didn't make very many cars.

North America - even before GM - has been Saab's largest market outside Sweden since the 1970s.

Saab shone during the 1990's thanks to GM.

The problem was that GM never bothered to keep their product up-to-date.

[Edited 2009-12-15 00:15:25]
a.
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:05 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
North America - even before GM - has been Saab's largest market outside Sweden since the 1970s.

I stand corrected.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
Saab shone during the 1990's thanks to GM.

I guess a good shine is beauty in the eye of the beholder. I watched as the Saab morphed from a strikingly stylish car with character and individuality to something that resembled every other piece of crap GM made.... all in the 1990s.

My point is that GM took a diamond of a car and turned it into a lump of coal. Nobody else is responsible for such negligence.
 
rabenschlag
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:09 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
The 9-3 for example today stickers up to $45,000. That is a silly joke. The tooling on the 9-3 is old and paid for. Also, how much extra does it cost to produce the deluxe model vs standard? Nothing really.

I am always shocked when confronted with American price standards.

The basic VW Golf (bare bones, 1.4 liter four banger) costs 24.000 $ incl. VAT in Germany

The Golf GTI (no options selected) costs 38.786 $ incl. VAT.
 
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:38 pm



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 1):
But what are architects going to buy now?

And U.S. full-time college professors.  Smile

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 9):
Even the newest Saab model (the 2010 Saab 9-5) is a reskinned Opel Insignia.

And it is, at least by the looks of it, a really cool car.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 26):
think selling Opel would have been a mistake

I agree completely. I am glad GM is keeping Opel.

Anyway, my understanding is that Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Corporation signed an agreement with Saab and GM to acquire the rights to produce cars based on the outgoing 9-5 and the 2003-2006 9-3. The price is about U.S.$197 million. Based on press reports, Saab would keep this money as cash on hand.

In the meantime, GM is negotiating the sale of Saab to Spyker. It is expected that, if the deal takes place, the European Investment Bank will make a EUR400 million loan to Saab that may be guaranteed by the Swedish government. The main issue is that Spyker and its Russian backer Convers Group will need to find additional financing for the deal and to keep Saab going. It is uncertain whether the deal will close. I say keep the shot glass of Absolut ready but don't down it yet.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-b...-197m-dealers-get-extra-month.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091215-708499.html

I drove a 2003 Saab 9-3 2.0t Linear automatic from September 2003 until June 2007. It was a great car. Never had any mechanical problem. It was fast, quick and responsive; despite the combo of front wheel drive chassis and turbo engine, my 9-3 had very precise handling when cornering and exhibited almost zero torque steer. The streets of Mexico City are full of ruts and potholes, so the car's ride proved to be a bit too harsh sometimes due to the sporty suspension setting... nonetheless, it still felt more compliant than the BMW 3-Series or the VW Passat during city driving.

My only problem with the 9-3 was trying to sell it in 2007. I wanted a BMW 325i Coupe but sadly came to the realization that I could not afford it unless I took a loan in not so favorable terms, and ended up buying a 2008 Mercedes Benz C280 Classic (which I love more than anything). The pre-owned car guys at both the BMW and Benz dealers laughed at the notion of buying the Saab from me as part of the deal. In the end, I found my beloved Lars (that's what I used to call my 9-3) a good home... the Dad of a very good friend of mine from high school bought it at a decent price and is now very happy with it... well, he may not be happy when he finds out that Saab is likely going under.

I still keep my fingers crossed that Spyker will buy Saab. I feel Koenigsegg would have been a good parent, but at this point in time, it is Spyker or nothing.
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aero145
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:41 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24):
I [...] have just replaced my wifes 2008 3 series touring with a V70

WHAT?!  Wow! I thought you were BMW-sensible!
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:14 pm

Now I think they should bring this model back, the Saab 96! It was the ultimate in a strange car. Very reliable , though quirky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXVRdSbKDT8
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N243NW
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:34 pm



Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 36):
Now I think they should bring this model back, the Saab 96! It was the ultimate in a strange car. Very reliable , though quirky.

Wow...that's the first time I can say I've ever seen a two-stroke automobile. I'd like to see that pass California emissions standards today... Wink
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exFATboy
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:42 pm



Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 33):

I am always shocked when confronted with American price standards.

The basic VW Golf (bare bones, 1.4 liter four banger) costs 24.000 $ incl. VAT in Germany

The Golf GTI (no options selected) costs 38.786 $ incl. VAT.

I think your comparison may be off - the GTI with no options, per Volkswagen's US website, has a MSRP of $23,489 before tax and registration - that would vary by state but the out-the-door price would be somewhere around $27-28k. But that US GTI has a 2 litre engine.

A base Golf on VW's German website starts at EUR 16,650, or roughly USD 24k at today's exchange rate. (I don't know if that includes VAT or registration, my severely limited high school German only goes so far.) Step that up to just the 1.8 litre engine, with no other changes, and the price jumps to EUR 20,225, or roughly USD 29k, already over the US GTI price, and you still have a smaller engine and (I believe) a lower trim level.

As for Saab, it just became a brand without a reason - once Volvo discovered cars didn't have to be box-shaped, its better build quality and reputation took a lot of Saab's sales, and between the Japanese and German brands, it lost the rest of the market. (The loss of personality under GM didn't help either.)

We had one of those old Saabs that looked like a VW Beetle with a gland problem, two-stroke engine - you put oil in the petrol tank and bounced the car up and down to mix it every time you filled up, which was a great way to freak out gas station attendants. One year when mom took it for registration, the guy kidded her "you have one of those cry-baby cars...sob, sob..." But you could park the thing for a month in a Vermont winter, go out and dust a foot of snow off of it, and it'd start with no more than 10 seconds of cranking.

I feel sorry for the workers...GM certainly has the "reverse Midas touch", eh?
 
EddieDude
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:51 pm

It is official now. The talks between GM and Spyker failed. GM will wind Saab up. All outstanding vehicle warranties and all debts to suppliers will be honored. I suppose the company will use the proceeds from the sale of the old 9-5 and 9-3 technology to BAIC to pay its liabilities.

This is a sad day for auto enthusiasts.
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:13 pm



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 39):
It is official now. The talks between GM and Spyker failed. GM will wind Saab up. All outstanding vehicle warranties and all debts to suppliers will be honored. I suppose the company will use the proceeds from the sale of the old 9-5 and 9-3 technology to BAIC to pay its liabilities.

This is a sad day for auto enthusiasts.

Only for those with a love of a make which even the vast majority of Swedes avoided

Very sad day for my mate who bought a nearly new 9-3 two weeks ago. His story went as follows:
I was in the showroom picking up my present car from some repairs when I saw this 9 month old one on sale, it had lots of extras and it was too good an offer to walk away from.

My reply was look what happened to the price of Rovers both new and 2nd hand when they went under, it will be far cheaper next month !!!!
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:01 pm



Quoting Aero145 (Reply 35):
WHAT?! I thought you were BMW-sensible!

I was and wanted a 5 series touring to replace the much too small as a family car 3 series touring, but even on run out the current model was going to cost 120,000 NOK more than the Volvo, so I cut my cloth ate humble pie and went with the V70. SO far I have no complaints, it's big, comfortible, easy(ish) on the diesel, my wife loves it and I still sort of have a BMW in my Mini Cooper Clubman.
 
Flighty
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:29 pm



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 40):
Only for those with a love of a make which even the vast majority of Swedes avoided

The cars were not very good, but it was a meaningful company with a point of view. Just because GM could not run it, they decided to kill it. Saab could have done a lot better allied with a more capable owner. Ford provides one example, having managed Volvo pretty successfully. Tata is doing ok with Aston Martin and Rolls.

The best way out for Saab was to go to a rich and powerful new owner such as the Chinese government (er, "companies"). But GM is unwilling to part on those terms. Sad!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:27 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 42):
Tata is doing ok with Aston Martin and Rolls.

Tata is the owner of Jaguar and Land Rover. And I believe they are swimming in red ink.

Aston Martin is owned by a consortium of investors from Britain and the Middle East???

And Rolls Royce is owned by no other but BMW.
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ltbewr
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:40 am

Another sad end of an automotive name with a unique herritage. I bet the Chinese companies will go in paying cents on the dollar (or equivilent) and buy up the equipment to use for their growing car industry. I would wish they would buy Saab's safety engineering to improve the quality and safety of their cars.

I think one car that ruined Saab was ironically Subaru. Some current Saab models are actually Subaru models in the NA market. Subaru was and still is a distinctive line of cars, growing by offering back in the 1970's nicely priced small 4 WD cars which became popular in some of the same markets as Saab, like the New England States and Colorado. Saab then went upscale, losing their uniqueness and a lot of their orignial, more moderatly budgeted markets. They also had some troublesome realiablity issues at times, were not easy to get parts for in some isolated markets and some parts could be quite expensive.
So I guess it had to end for them someday. I know of a dealership that opened up about a year ago not far from me. I bet they are ticked off with the demise.
 
petertenthije
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:50 am



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 43):
And I believe they are swimming in red ink.

In the 2nd quarter of this financial year JLR reported a profit of 4,7 million USD. Can only provide a Dutch source: http://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/13...-Land-Rover-noteren-zwarte-cijfers
Attamottamotta!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:34 am



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 45):
In the 2nd quarter of this financial year JLR reported a profit of 4,7 million USD. Can only provide a Dutch source:

Thanks Peter, well, that is just good news. That a niche luxury car maker that was recently sold by its parent due to continuous heavy losses is able to make a profit in the middle of a global recession is quite remarkable. I hope Jaguar and Land Rover can thrive under their new ownership and management.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 44):
I think one car that ruined Saab was ironically Subaru. Some current Saab models are actually Subaru models in the NA market.

Ah, yes, the 9-2x. I dunno... maybe Saab's fate was sealed since before that car came to be. And in my opinion the 9-8 (the Trailblazer-based SUV) was an even bigger mistake than the 9-2x. What do you think?
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fbgdavidson
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:41 am



Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 33):
I am always shocked when confronted with American price standards.

The basic VW Golf (bare bones, 1.4 liter four banger) costs 24.000 $ incl. VAT in Germany

The Golf GTI (no options selected) costs 38.786 $ incl. VAT.

Funny you mention this as my brother is looking at getting a Golf R when they come out next year. For the spec he is looking at it'd be £38,000!! For that money you could get a top of the range E550 over here!

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 4):
Still living in the 1990's I see?  

Hyundai might be making better cars now than they were but they aren't making any cars that an enthusiast can get excited about. I know a few people with Hyundais and the main reason they own them is because they are cheap. As Top Gear noted a few years back the cars aren't built with any soul, they're basically considered a white good and an entry on a balance sheet.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
Saab 9-3 cost maybe $25,000 to make (or less). If they sold them from $20,000 at the low end, to $30,000 at the high end, this would have increased their volume by 300% or so. They could have done this. But instead they had a really poor pricing schedule that priced them out of the American market.

Not all companies are about selling volume, or making a small mark up. Luxury products (not sure I'd call Saab luxury but I'll make my point) are usually priced at what the manufacturer believes they can sell it for. High prices create exclusivity and that drives demand, almost regardless of the price.

In the case of Saab or GM maybe they aimed for a vaguely similar strategy, selling on price rather than volume. Given the gamut of GM brands it doesn't make much sense to put similar vehicles in competition with each other. Trying to use the Saab brand to attract a premium makes sense, it was just poorly executed.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 9852
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:51 am



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 47):
Hyundai might be making better cars now than they were but they aren't making any cars that an enthusiast can get excited about.

The car magazines and tuners are going nuts over the Genesis Coupe, it's becoming a popular drifting car.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3069
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RE: Pour Out An Absolut For Saab Auto (1947-2009)

Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:45 am



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 43):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 42):
Tata is doing ok with Aston Martin and Rolls.

Tata is the owner of Jaguar and Land Rover. And I believe they are swimming in red ink.



Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 45):
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 43):
And I believe they are swimming in red ink.

In the 2nd quarter of this financial year JLR reported a profit of 4,7 million USD. Can only provide a Dutch source: http://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/13...jfers

TATA bought JLR at the peak of the economic cycle, within months they were knocking on the door of the UK government looking for financial assistance, I recall the Government pointed out that a supposedly huge International conglomerate had better use their own money !!

In their short ownership period they have already axed the X type Jag and announced some factory restructuring/closures. They may have announced a $4.7 million trading profit for one quarter, but the accumulated losses since the takeover are probably rather substantial.

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