zrs70
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Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:22 pm

Is there anything that all the terror attacks of the world have in common?
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futurepilot16
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:29 pm

You mean besides the death? Well, they all involve blowing stuff up, that's the basic common denominator. The other thing is, most if not all, received training from terrorist groups in the middle east. Everything points back to that region.
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GDB
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:20 pm

Not much beyond specifics.

Not even commonality between elements of Islamic groups.
Some are about a drive for perceived self determination, in Kashmir, the Philippines, possibly parts of Thailand, within the chaos of Somalia, Palestine, even it seems some Chinese provinces.
Others are more about expunging what they see as the dangerous (for what they see as proper 'Islam') influence of the West.
Which is, or at first was, the Primary goal of what loose groups were in the orbit of Bin Laden.

Since these elements often had, for them, common enemies, small wonder that there has been cooperation between them.
Iraq, after the invasion without a post war plan, bother types were certainly active.
Though the original motivation would have been fighting the invader.

But there is another element to Islamic terror, often, despite the appalling body count, almost ignored in the West.
That is different arms of Islam fighting each other, this was going on in Pakistan well before Sept 11th 2001.
We saw that in Iraq, it's still going on there.

For sure there is no central James Bond movie evil genius at the heart of it, there never was even at the height of Bin Laden's influence.
Now it looks more fragmented than ever before.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:13 pm

I know there are a lot of apologists for radical Islam on a.net so they will probably tell us that common demoninator has nothing to do with Islam. They like to throw in the OKC bombing or the IRA. I say to you... Stop living in the past. We are talking about terror today, not fifteen years ago. Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

Quoting GDB (Reply 2):
But there is another element to Islamic terror, often, despite the appalling body count, almost ignored in the West.
That is different arms of Islam fighting each other, this was going on in Pakistan well before Sept 11th 2001.
We saw that in Iraq, it's still going on there.

Yes, and it has nothing to do with the USA and/or Israel. Too many people think the Islamic radical problem would just go away if the USA and Israel would just go away. It will not and we are foolish to think it will.


It amazes me that crap like this is allowed to go on in the UK. I don't care that this looks like a small crowd. People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA. A few years ago a dozen or so KKK people protested in Toledo, Ohio. They got there ass kicked and a riot ensued. When hate groups get together in the USA they are not welcomed by many and we show them they are not wanted. These mem are a hate group and need to be treated as such. What would have happened if they were white men holding signs against gays, Jews, blacks, etc?
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mandala499
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:37 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

And even mainstream is divided... *sigh*

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
It amazes me that crap like this is allowed to go on in the UK. I don't care that this looks like a small crowd.

That's one thing that made me decide to call it quits in the UK... the radical Islamic students kept terrorizing me every Friday asking me to join them for Friday prayers and that for me to go to have Friday prayers at my embassy was "improper", and bordering on heresy... I was like WTF??? At one stage I had about 6 Jewish american students "guarding" me on the uni lectures on Fridays... LOL... those radical islamic students didn't like it one bit! But I wonder, they never gave up like a drug addict with a sack of cocaine dangled in front of them!

Mind you, when I got to Australia later, I got sickened by the political correctness...  Smile

Gotta love those silly words "Freedom can go to hell", but if they get arrested, they'd say their freedom of expression was violated! Bwahahahaha! Hypocrites!

For the ones that still uses their heads and common sense to think, the Quran warns us of "those who claim to believe but are truly unbelievers", and "those who say they come in peace but say so only to cause mischief"... Nice to know that Islam had warned us of radicalists and "radicalists immigrating to countries in peace only to cause these sorts of mischief afterwards."

Sure, one day, Islam might dominate the world... I just pray to God it's not THEIR version of it! If so, I might become a suicide bomber against these stoopid radicals! Anyone wanna join giving them a taste of their own stoopid medicine?

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
What would have happened if they were white men holding signs against gays, Jews, blacks, etc?

Knowing the UK... errrr... nothing...  Smile

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA.

LOL, last time a hate-preacher preached in the mosque in my neighbourhood, we stood up and walked out in protest... If these guys end up doing this in my neighbourhood, they'd probably last 10 minutes before someone runs them over with a car screaming "idiots!"  Smile

I hate these "hypocrites hell bent on perverting my religion" with a passion!
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OA260
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:03 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA

You mean like this ?

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TheCol
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:11 pm

The Common Denominator:

We have fallen back on the yardstick of national self-interest to measure which portions of the planet we allow ourselves to be concerned about. In the twenty-first century, we cannot afford to tolerate a single failed state, ruled be ruthless and self-serving dictators, arming and brainwashing a generation of potential warriors to export meyhem and terror around the world. Rwanda was a warning to us all of what lies in store if we continue to ignore human rights, human security and abject poverty. The tens of millions of three-year-olds like the one I met on that Rwandan road deserve and must have nothing less than a chance at life as a human being and not as someone's slave, vassal, chattel, or expendable pawn.

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falstaff
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:14 pm



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
the radical Islamic students kept terrorizing me every Friday asking me to join them for Friday prayers and that for me to go to have Friday prayers at my embassy was "improper", and bordering on heresy... I was like WTF???

Fascinating.... I have read about that in various books and magazines. Some of the naive people on a.net said that no such thing happens. Of course none of those people probably hang out in neighborhoods where that happens.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
I hate these "hypocrites hell bent on perverting my religion" with a passion!

Good for you. Islam has been around a long time and it wasn't until fairly recently that it started to become hijacked by extremists. I wonder how much of this violence is really Islam related and how much of it is middle east tribal warfare hiding behind Islam?

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
I just pray to God it's not THEIR version of it!

me too... Those nutty guys probably don't have any love in their hearts for my Christian beliefs.
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:22 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
You mean like this ?

yep, and they don't get any repect. I am not saying we have no hate groups, we have plenty, but they have few real supporters. You should see those wimps run when a gang of Legion Riders comes around. When hate groups show their face they get their asses kicked. We don't just say.... Oh lets respect their diversity because and value their opinions.

The Legion Riders (American Legion) try to be at funerals of service men to keep nuts like them away. You also have to know about those protestors. They claim to be Baptists, but are not affiliated with any large denomination of the US Baptist church. Also most of those Westboro Baptist people are related and actualy try to stir up trouble, they travel around. There numbers are very small.
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:45 pm

Stop Terror sponsoring countries & get them to toe the line of the world & Terror will end.
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:15 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
Fascinating.... I have read about that in various books and magazines. Some of the naive people on a.net said that no such thing happens. Of course none of those people probably hang out in neighborhoods where that happens.

It was in DOWNTOWN LONDON!!!!! In Campuses of the various parts of the University of London... (Try that part between Euston, Tottenham Court Road, and King's Cross).

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
You mean like this ?

OK, I know Americans are crackpots... but come on, this takes the cake! LOL! Just kidding guys!
Seriously, what on earth????
"Thank God for..."... IEDs? 9/11? Dead Soldiers?
"Too late to pray" ???
Am no avid supporter nor am I an avid opposer of the current US engagements in Iraq and Afghanistan... but... Geez, I thought those radicals were crazy, but... *shakes head* those guys take the cake dude!
No respect for the dead... and dead soldiers too... dead soldiers, who have to go in there whether they believed in the war or not because it was their job... and did so for their country, regardless on whether the war was right or wrong.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
me too... Those nutty guys probably don't have any love in their hearts for my Christian beliefs.

Send those guys to Iraq and Afghanistan unarmed on a mission to reason with their country's so called enemy... I'd love to see how long they'd last... any bets?  Smile
Bloody hell! Even we all have to respect a dead enemy soldier with a proper burial!

I don't think Osama needs to bomb anything in America anymore... these people have just handed him the victory baton... (oh, and add TSA to the list too for changing the American way of air travel)...

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 8):
We don't just say.... Oh lets respect their diversity because and value their opinions.

Well, I say we have to respect diversity and value different opinions... shutting out and marginalising those we think are lunatics won't help... look at Bin Ladin, he qualifies as a lunatic... BUT, it doesn't mean we value differing opinions and stop there and let them run loose and amok... Work to bring reason with them... and when they refuse to... you always retain the option of blowing them all to hell (as long as you do it before they do... something which we all failed to do).

Anyways, those lunatic "insult the dead soldiers" *censored words*, deserve to have common sense and decency kicked into their heads... if they want us to start respecting their opinions, they should stop violating a common denominator of human society... that is... to respect the dead!

Am sure these guys qualify for Christian Hell and Muslim Hell...  Smile Hey guys! we got a common place to throw them to in the afterlife!  Smile (if you want to give them earthly hell, then let's start sending them to Afghanistan! Hehehehe!)

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
I wonder how much of this violence is really Islam related and how much of it is middle east tribal warfare hiding behind Islam?

I suggest you have a read about our recently deceased former president... who is a muslim cleric, leader of Indonesia's largest Islamic organization, and a pluralist... his view on religion: "All religions insist on peace. From this we might think that the religious struggle for peace is simple ... but it is not. The deep problem is that people use religion wrongly in pursuit of victory and triumph. This sad fact then leads to conflict with people who have different beliefs."

Now, that is sadly... true...
Have a read on the guy.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdurrahman_Wahid

And to those not recognizing Israel...
"Israel believes in God. While we have a diplomatic relationship and recognising diplomatically China and Russia, which are atheist states, then it's strange that we don't acknowledge Israel. This is the thing that we have to correct within Islam."

I would love to have seen a TV debate between Abdurrahman Wahid and Osama Bin Ladin...  Smile I guess the next opportunity is in the afterlife  Sad
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:31 am

Perhaps a key factor in modern terrorism is discrimination as to economic opportunity due to a combo of ethnicty, tribe, family connection, religion or faith beliefs or financial class. In some cases it is compounded by occupation of another country that may favor certain groups over another, sometimes a minority of the region over a majority group, exploitation of resources or cheap labor.
For many men in the Islamic world, even if they get an education, they may be limited in employment opportunities due to discrimination as noted above. Many men cannot get decent work so are unemployed or living with their parents or in poverty. That means for young men, many cannot consider marriage as don't have the economic and emotional security needed to attract a potential mate. Then their is the bonding of people into certain groups, including al-Queda and other Islamic extreamist groups who then tell potential followers that they are not to blame but rather the USA, Israel, 'the Western world', Christianity and so on are.
 
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:37 am

Common denominator: Radical Islam
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Mir
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:21 am



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
I know there are a lot of apologists for radical Islam on a.net

Are there? There are a lot of people who defend Islam, but I've yet to see someone defend radical Islam.

And yes, radical Islam is the common denominator among terrorists lately. That fact is undeniable.

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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:48 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
There are a lot of people who defend Islam, but I've yet to see someone defend radical Islam.

Me neither. I've seen plenty of posts though bordering on "1 billion of the world's people are predisposed to violence and radicalism or are at least partially sympathetic to it - so let's keep them the hell out." Utter garbage.
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GDB
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denomina

Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:20 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
They like to throw in the OKC bombing or the IRA. I say to you... Stop living in the past. We are talking about terror today, not fifteen years ago. Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

But you cannot get away from the fact that the 2nd worst terror attack the US has had, which was a very mass casualty deadly and major one by any yardstick anywhere in the world, was carried out by one of your own.
And there are still like minded people, to McVeigh, around still now.

From our viewpoint, many of us find some of the near hysteria from some in the US galling, especially when it comes from the mouth of your lawmaker, one Pete King from NY.
A notorious mouthpiece and apologist for the IRA in his day.

A group who did nearly succeed, in 1984 and 1991, in killing members of the government, including respectively, Prime Ministers Thatcher and Major, who did, despite whatever PR they employed stateside, to get those money tins filled and weapons brought, carry out many no warning, indiscriminate bombings both in N.I. and the mainland on civilian targets, like pubs and shopping centers.
2009 will be remembered in the UK, for being the worst casualty wise, year in Afghanistan so far.
But these levels were comparable with the worst years of the 'Troubles' in the early 70's.

So we feel the same about the Pete Kings of this world, as you do about those clowns (and there only a very few of them), in that pic taken in the UK.
(Some of whom were later arrested and charged under legislation concerning hate crimes).

Recent surveys have suggested that in fact, British Muslims are the most patriotic for the country they were born and brought up, of any of the Muslim communities in Europe.
This does not of course exclude the existence of the idiots in that demo, who are it seems are as estranged from their own community, as they are from the life of the country as a whole.
Recently, US born Muslims have been picked up abroad seemingly plotting terror attacks, then of course there were the killings at that Army base.

Returning to the IRA, the UK has long had a very large Irish/Irish descended community, in many parts of the country, particularly in London, Manchester, Liverpool.
In fact, the largest immigrant/immigrant descended community for a very long time right up to this day.
But, even at the height of the IRA campaign, the terrorists found little succor, less help, from this community.
They were, like the Islamics today, largely estranged too.

We'll not take any lectures about terrorism from the likes of Pete King and the others, including the courts who prevented ANY convicted IRA terrorist on the run, ever being extradited.
Others tried hard to prevent the British Security forces from purchasing Ruger rifles and Pistols, they did succeed in delaying them.
'Shoulder To Shoulder'?
Not then it wasn't, when terrorism was just what happened to others.
 
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:25 pm



Quoting GDB (Reply 15):
From our viewpoint, many of us find some of the near hysteria from some in the US galling, especially when it comes from the mouth of your lawmaker, one Pete King from NY.
A notorious mouthpiece and apologist for the IRA in his day.

Quite true . Countless US administrations turned a blind eye to terrorism and funding for it in the USA until suddenly it came knocking on their own door step then it was suddenly ''faux pas''.
 
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:26 pm

Couldn't agree more that there are many parallels between the Northern Ireland Troubles and present-day Islamic-based terrorism.

The root cause of the Northern Irish problem was religious discrimination. For half a century, the Northern Irish Protestants systematically discriminated against the Catholics.

I think it's highly relevant that that problem was solved, in the end, not by soldiers or police but by 'negotiation'. The problem ended (or rather, became much reduced, it's still there to an extent) once the British government finally insisted on negotiations on 'power-sharing' and other methods of defusing the situation.

However, it's important to bear in mind that the Irish would never have solved that problem for themselves; the bitterness ran too deep on both sides. The British government, since it largely funded and supported the economies of both the Irelands, was always in a position to 'impose' a solution on both sides. It's just a pity, with hindsight, that it took so long to 'come the heavy father' and stop the nonsense once and for all.

As others have said, the United States had a poor record of being 'soft' on the IRA right through that conflict. One has to conclude that that was because of the virtual 100% support that the 'Irish' community in the USA gave to PIRA ('Provisional Irish Republican Army') - any American politician, particularly any Democrat, who spoke out too loudly against 'Irish Independence' would have been hard put to it to get elected dog-catcher in places like New York City.........

But now I have to put the cat among the pigeons:-

1. It's perfectly clear that the mainspring of the current wave of terrorism is blatant religious discrimination in the Middle East.

2. It's also clear that the United States is the only country in the world that is able to 'come the heavy father' and tell both Israel and its neighbours to negotiate a just peace.

3. Regrettably, one can also see that any US politicians who back any such 'tough line' - which, inevitably, will mean Israel making most of the concessions - would be wise to prepare for the possibility that they'll have to seek alternative careers. Especially New York politicians like Hillary Clinton.........

I suppose I'm just getting old. But I hope people will forgive me for feeling, on occasion, that reading the political news in the newspapers every morning feels more and more like 'watching old movies'.........'Been there, seen that'..........

[Edited 2010-01-01 05:42:15]
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:15 pm



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 1):
Well, they all involve blowing stuff up, that's the basic common denominator. The other thing is, most if not all, received training from terrorist groups in the middle east. Everything points back to that region.

- Depends on the decade. At present it mostly is Middle East, Asia and Latin America. In the 1970ies/80ies, much was in Germany and Italy. It was and is however also in North-East Spain / South-West France. And in the 1990ies it was the Islamic Academy on Hyde Park in London and other such places. And it for decades was in Northern Ireland
- Blowing stuff up is "fashionable", but in the past it was the DE-routing of airplanes to alternative destinations, assassinations of prominent people out of politics + economy + cultures, or blackmailing individuals or institutions into payments by murder-threats

Quoting GDB (Reply 2):
element to Islamic terror

-
You now speak about a sector which "thanks" to elQaeda has become prominent in the past 15 years, but you forget Latin American terror groups, IRA, ETA, BaaderMeinhof, RedBrigades in Italy, TamilTigers. Many of them still ARE active and deadly.

And here we come to a top important point about terrorism. Terrorists ALWAYS are attention whores


Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
apologists for radical Islam

the existence of various sorts of terrorists is no apology for radicalism and extremism of any sort & anti-terrorism measures simply have to take all aspects into account. And that includes violent semi-political crime like the one in Oklahoma City. But simply let's regard terrorism as what it is and that is VIOLENT CRIME.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
Radical Islam is at war with the west and also mainstream Islamic peoples.

And even mainstream is divided... *sigh*

The mainstream of society has to be divided, as it HAS TO BE pluralistic. This may be the weakness of pluralism and democracy, but in the end is its strength.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
Gotta love those silly words "Freedom can go to hell", but if they get arrested, they'd say their freedom of expression was violated! Bwahahahaha! Hypocrites!

All criminals and all folks in favour of totalitarianism are like that. No freedom required except of course for THEM !

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 4):
radical Islamic students kept terrorizing me every Friday asking me to join them for Friday prayers

like in case of the "Islamic Academy" in London where a student out of the window invited bypassers to come in for their "interesting discussions"

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
I wonder how much of this violence is really Islam related and how much of it is middle east tribal warfare hiding behind Islam?

Nothing of it is really "Islam related" and most of "Islamic extremism" is politics hiding behind Islam, and that applies to Black Africa, the Arab World, Asia (Afghanistan) . To declare yourself to be "defender of religion" always has been fashionable in this world.



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 10):
It was in DOWNTOWN LONDON!!!!! In Campuses of the various parts of the University of London... (Try that part between Euston, Tottenham Court Road, and King's Cross).

Amazing in the London of the 1990ies was how those bookshops on Charing Cross Road who in the 70ies were extremely leftist suddenly had radical Islamic literature in English and Arabic even in the shop-windows.

Quoting GDB (Reply 15):
even at the height of the IRA campaign, the terrorists found little succor, less help, from this community.
They were, like the Islamics today, largely estranged too.

Exactly this makes extremists terrorists. When extremists start to realize that the majority is not with them they try to push their agenda through by terrorist violence

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17):
the United States had a poor record of being 'soft' on the IRA right through that conflict

Worse was that the USA and much of Europe in the 1980ies and even 90ies gave political asylum to fleeing terrorists from Algeria and Egypt, and turned down Algerian and Egyptian extradition requests quite routinely, among them people involved in the assassination of President Mohammed Anwar as-Sadat. Bad is to see that an extremely fundamentalist grandson of Sheikh Ahmed Hassan al-Banna (founder of the Islamic Brotherhood) is not only enjoying "political asylum" in Switzerland but even allowed to give lengthy interviews to Swiss TV and so distributing his propaganda.
 
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:05 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):

It amazes me that crap like this is allowed to go on in the UK. I don't care that this looks like a small crowd. People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA.

http://www.isisimagery.com/2006/October_2006/October_event1/IMGP3047A.JPG


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mandala499
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:26 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
And in the 1990ies it was the Islamic Academy on Hyde Park in London and other such places. And it for decades was in Northern Ireland

And the 90s saw both the rise of the Islamic hardheads that were rejected in their own homeland prior to immigrating to the UK, and also, the last peak in IRA activity.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
And here we come to a top important point about terrorism. Terrorists ALWAYS are attention whores

Bwahahahaha! That is SOOOOO true !
They deserve to be sniped by Delta Cat...


Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
The mainstream of society has to be divided, as it HAS TO BE pluralistic. This may be the weakness of pluralism and democracy, but in the end is its strength.

Hear yee Hear yee! Common Sense hath descended upon A.net Non-Av... (cue the entry of the anti pluralists... oh wait hang on... they're on holiday!)

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
All criminals and all folks in favour of totalitarianism are like that. No freedom required except of course for THEM !

I'll let my other cat deal Usman bin Layme deal with them...


Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
To declare yourself to be "defender of religion" always has been fashionable in this world.

Oh yes, and unfortunately this will continue till the end of the world... (which is only in 2 years according to Hollywood).

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
Amazing in the London of the 1990ies was how those bookshops on Charing Cross Road who in the 70ies were extremely leftist suddenly had radical Islamic literature in English and Arabic even in the shop-windows.

the 70s saw hippies, lefties and flowerpowers... the 90s saw... oh, equally crazy but wayyyy less colourful...
Coincidentally, my gauntlet with these crazies did occur in the mid 90s! From Charing Cross to Euston... (must be something wrong with the Northern Line and Picadilly Line...)

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):


That First Amendment is a pesky thing sometimes. But I'd rather keep it than shred it.

[/quote]
Let Usman deal with the KKK and the other wannabe totalitarian scums...
Meanwhile, for the insulters of dead soldiers, perhaps I should remind them to reconsider that sick placard "Thank God for IEDs"... by sending them my other cat... Noordin M Kitty, the IEC (Improvised Explosive Cat) specialist...

Welcome to pluralistic democracy... where we give totalitarian wannabes a shelter... Just remember, keep them at bay and away from weapons while make sure the majority have common sense!  Smile
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:47 am



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA.

Have you seen evangelical Christians in the USA? It's the exact same thing. Don't think they are nonviolent, either. They occasionally rise to be Commander in Chief.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
What would have happened if they were white men holding signs against gays, Jews, blacks, etc?

There were a bunch of white men and women advocating a "kill 'em all" platform after 9/11. They called themselves the Republican Party. For an update, consider Dick Cheney's eloquent statements.
 
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:25 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
Have you seen evangelical Christians in the USA? It's the exact same thing. Don't think they are nonviolent, either. They occasionally rise to be Commander in Chief.

Every time I see some of the things they say, I think that it is just lucky that they aren't Muslims. That Bio channel documentary Jesus Camp was pretty scary.
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ArmitageShanks
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:34 am



Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
Is there anything that all the terror attacks of the world have in common?

Muslims, pretty much.
 
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:18 am



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 23):
Muslims, pretty much.

The question has not been about "pretty much" but about "ALL". And so, your statement is wrong. As it only covers Muslim terrorists, but neither Tamil Tigers, nor ETA or the Latin American terrorists. So, what are real commonalities ?
> political extremism
> fanatism
> the attempt to push through an agenda by violence
> the attempt to get attention at any price (attention whores)
> the desire to press their views onto the rest of humanity
 
baroque
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:01 am



Quoting GDB (Reply 2):
For sure there is no central James Bond movie evil genius at the heart of it, there never was even at the height of Bin Laden's influence.
Now it looks more fragmented than ever before.

GDB, you know perfetly well that was a secret. What are you doing blabbing about it here. Expect men in white jackets to take you away for a spot of gardening leave, you know you must not overtax yourself.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
People spewing hate like this would not stand a chance in the USA.



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 8):
I am not saying we have no hate groups, we have plenty, but they have few real supporters. You should see those wimps run when a gang of Legion Riders comes around. When hate groups show their face they get their asses kicked. We don't just say.... Oh lets respect their diversity because and value their opinions.

Is the trouble with short term memory, or does your memory resort such items into GOOD (Muslims being nutters) and REMOVED (Christians behaving as they have done for centuries).

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
But simply let's regard terrorism as what it is and that is VIOLENT CRIME.

Full STOP end of story. They are criminals.

As to their intent. Those who commented on killing are probably right. At times they are accused of trying to bring down western civilizations. Well apart from the fact that they must have been humbled by the efforts of Wall St and the City of London over the past couple of years, it appears this is not their aim. Stupid over-reaction has probably caused more economic damage than Islamic terrorists over this decade. They could be a heck of a lot more destructive in much simpler ways if they wanted to be.

The main difference between this bout of terrorism and past ones such as the Russian anarchists, the 20s IRA, ETA, RAF/Bader Meinhof, Red Brigades, 70s IRA is mounting so many wars against them that I, for one, have lost count. As MAF wrote they are criminals.

AFAIK, the nearest to success against any Islamic terrorists has been Detachment 88 in Indonesia, and they are Police, and those police are chasing criminals first and terrorists second. By success, I mean ending up with fewer terrorists than when you started, not more.

As Mandala writes, time to read up on Gus Dur, there is also a thread about his death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachment_88 Former Indonesian President Wahid Dies (by Baroque Dec 30 2009 in Non Aviation)

See also David Kilkullen on how we are creating extra guerrillas.
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:25 am

Eyes on Yemen
02/01/2010 11:30:00 AM GMT
http://aljazeera.com/news/articles/39/Eyes-on-Yemen.html

What creates more al-Qaeda sympathizers than killing children with (US-backed) missiles? There’s nothing like aerial bombing or missile strikes to produce radical hatred and anger.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
NAV20
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:02 pm

Actually, it's the Muslim countries that are really copping the terrorism.

We get all worried about some idiot who tries to loose off a bomb on an airliner, and only succeeds in 'terrorising' - or rather 'cauterising' - his own private parts. Whereas (thanks to all of us de-stabilising the region for years) this sort of thing (shown on our evening news tonight) is literally a daily occurrence in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq:-

http://player.sbs.com.au/naca/#/naca...Pakistan-blast-kills-more-than-90/
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falstaff
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:11 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
That First Amendment is a pesky thing sometimes. But I'd rather keep it than shred it.

Have you ever seen the reaction of the local community when hate groups come around? I have and it isn't pretty... for them.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
Every time I see some of the things they say, I think that it is just lucky that they aren't Muslims. That Bio channel documentary Jesus Camp was pretty scary

I have been going to church my entire life and I have never seen anything like the crap I saw at that Jesus Camp.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
Have you seen evangelical Christians in the USA? It's the exact same thing. Don't think they are nonviolent, either.

It isn't because of evangelical Christians that we have to take our shoes off at the airport. It isn't because of the evangelical Christians that we have the TSA.

The thread is about the common denominator in TODAY's terror, not 20 years ago not 400 years. I know there are a lot of you here that HATE religion and think that freedom of religion means freedom from religion. If you just want to bash Muslims and Christians that is not the point of this thread. All Muslims are not a bunch of terrorists and not all Christians are a bunch of evangelical nut cases. If you think that is the case, you need to get your head out of you butt.
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:37 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 28):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
That First Amendment is a pesky thing sometimes. But I'd rather keep it than shred it.

Have you ever seen the reaction of the local community when hate groups come around? I have and it isn't pretty... for them.

Also I find it funny that most of the examples of pseudo-Christian extremism posted by the more cynical members are of one tiny, insignificant "church" in the United States. Their little protests are always responded to ten-fold by these guys:

http://www.patriotguard.org/

Many of the Patriot Guard riders are, you guessed it, Christians...and they ride those Westboro idiots out of town on rails every tim.

Falstaff is absolutely right. Views of such pathetic extremists (Westboro, KKK, etc) generally fall under protected speech, but are almost unequivocally rejected by the larger population. And those events are ALWAYS angrily protested by people of ALL walks of life. Without exception.
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:51 pm



Quoting Flanker (Reply 12):
Common denominator: Radical Islam

Remember Timothy McVeigh and the guy who shot George Tiller, both of those acts are considered terrorism in my books and they were Christians (although it is disputed with McVeigh, because he claimed to be an agnostic but was raised Roman Catholic).

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
Every time I see some of the things they say, I think that it is just lucky that they aren't Muslims. That Bio channel documentary Jesus Camp was pretty scary.

Radical Christians are just as bad and have done and potentially can do again what extreme Muslims are currently doing. Extreme Christians unfortunately for them but fortunately for the rest of us have the disadvantage of operating in countries where their crap isn't tolerated by the general public on a whole.
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golfradio
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:40 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
Islam has been around a long time and it wasn't until fairly recently that it started to become hijacked by extremists.



Quoting Flanker (Reply 12):
Common denominator: Radical Islam



Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
And yes, radical Islam is the common denominator among terrorists lately. That fact is undeniable.

 checkmark 

It is all about radical Islam. As Falstaff said in reply 7, since the last three decades Islam as it were has been replaced by Wahhabism. The majority of the followers of Islam live outside Middle East and for them Arabic is a foreign language. Given the strict nature of Islam where the Quran can only be read in Arabic, I doubt a lot muslims outside of Middle East truly understand it and rely on the interpretations that come out of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is now the main sponsor of Wahhabism and has extended a lot of monetary support to spread the Wahhabi Islam. This is the interpretation of Islam that is now being taught across Madrassas everywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/wahhabism.html
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BMI727
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:40 pm



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 28):
I have been going to church my entire life and I have never seen anything like the crap I saw at that Jesus Camp.

Nor have I, but it is out there.
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mandala499
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:33 am



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 31):
As Falstaff said in reply 7, since the last three decades Islam as it were has been replaced by Wahhabism.

The rise of Wahhabism is a concern for the world. It is a sect that rejects innovations (science, medicine, technology)... their hardline approach, unfortunately opens the way for bitterness and hopelessness, to which the absolute radicals milk till dry.

Islamic scholars have long argued that any innovation that is purely good are permissible, and purely evil innovation is not. What is good and evil in terms of innovation has been long subject for debate within Islamic scholars... but the Wahhabis take the cake! "NO INNOVATION!" Ironically, Shi'a philosophy is more permissibe to innovation than the Sunnis... mind you history may explain why..

Wahhabi hardliners take the rejection of innovation 1 step further... that is... to define a person taking on innovation as a kafir (unbeliever).

The terrorists, skew this further... not only do they reject innovation, but those who adopt it, branding them as unbelievers... this means in their eyes, liberal muslims are unbelievers and hypocrites.

In the eyes of liberal muslims however, the actions of these wahhabi extremists and terrorists are "unbelieving" and hypocritical. The terrorists for example, have decided to use "innovation" to cause harm (one can argue that the use of modern weapons, explosives, and flying planes into buildings as "embracing innovation to do harm), yet it is allowed by them and not for is to use innovation... HYPOCRITES!

The Wahhabis have a history of attacking other Muslims they accuse as "non-Muslims" (sounds similar to Al-Qaeda right?). They invaded the holy cities of Mecca and Medinah in the early 1800s and destroyed various sites, shrines and monuments (heck, they even considered destroying prophet Muhammad's tomb!) as they believe tomb/shrine visitations as idol worshipping!!!!!

This is a sect that openly preaches hate of other faiths and other Islamic sects/beliefs, branding them all as infidels... they continue to enjoy the support and funding of the Saudi royal house.

Whilst they seem to be violent and backward, the terrorists are the Salafi Jihadist.... which is the school of thought for the Islamic terrorist we know today... And this is a scary mix of features...

- immense emphasis on the concept of tawhid (unity of God);
- God's sovereignty (hakimiyyat Allah) which defines right and wrong, good and evil, and which supersedes human reasoning is applicable in all places on earth and at all times, and makes unnecessary and unIslamic other ideologies such as liberalism or humanism;
- the rejection of all innovation (Bid‘ah) to Islam;
- the permissibility and necessity of takfir (the declaring of a Muslim to be outside the creed, so that they must either repent or face execution);
- and on the centrality of jihad against infidel regimes.

The above taken from Wikipedia's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafism_jihadism

This group would stop at NOTHING... For most of us in the 'normal world', when we look at the Gaza strip and Hamas, we'd say, "Hamas is militant"... yet, these Salafi Jihadists preached that people should attack Hamas for failing to enforce Sharia law... *shakes head*... Hamas being Hamas, did what even us Muslim liberals consider right, "kill the b*****d"... to which they did!

In many parts of the world, Wahhabism is tolerated, but Jihadists often hide behind Wahhabism. Wahhabism's rennaissance is relatively new, let's say about 200yrs old. Many in the Islamic world don't really understand what it's about, and Wahhabists know they have the ace card, which is the support of the "rulers of Mecca and Medinah"... they seem violent and backward, love them or hate them, they're not the terrorists, BUT, their seemingly harsh translation of Islam, leads to an even harsher form of Islam, the fringe Salafi Jihadists...

Muslims in my country, take Wahhabist missions with great caution. We have established our own pluralistic environment where Muslims live in peace with others, putting forward our blood before our faith. The rise of the Wahhabists have eroded a lot of our nationhood principles, weakening our values, and selfish as some Wahhabists sound, they have unfortunately, opened the door for hate and bitterness, something which the Jihadist thrive upon for recruitment! Our society have worked hard to maintain our nationhood principles of "flag before blood, blood before faith, unity in diversity", and have managed to hold back the rise of the Wahhabists and Jihadist. I can only pray that our de-radicalisation campaign of "persuade and forgive" the radicals back into the mainstream can last longer than the Jihadists... We're slowly winning here, but a few years of lapse by the mainstream religious leaders and scholars must be paid back with many years of hard work against the radicals... I hope we don't lapse anymore, we're too much of a target and a potential gold mine for recruitment if the Jihadists win  Sad

The recent death of our former president, Abdurrahman Wahid, is causing me a lot of concern on the religious front... his organization, the Nahdatul Ulama, is the largest Islamic organization in our country, which is has the largest Islamic population in any nation in the world. The NU, has largely been at the forefront of Madrassah reform, teaching Islam to be a useful part of contemporary society, where conservatism is largely traditional and not religious. Abdurrahman Wahid's persistence in making Indonesia a pluralistic society where Islam is a part of it, has so far kept in check the rise of the Wahhabists and Jihadists, thanks to the huge grassroots support of NU. With Wahid gone, talk is beginning to surface on what's next for NU... we worry that NU may decline, if so, who is going to fill or partially fill the void? The choice is grim... we have the Wahhabists, the Jihadists, or the "Modernists"... the latter is progressive in terms of science and economy, but is open to sectarianism... once we have sectarianism, the Wahhabist and Jihadist floodgates open, and we may enter a new phase in the "war against radical Islam", in a bad way  Sad

Mandala499
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baroque
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:02 am



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 33):
The recent death of our former president, Abdurrahman Wahid, is causing me a lot of concern on the religious front... his organization, the Nahdatul Ulama, is the largest Islamic organization in our country, which is has the largest Islamic population in any nation in the world. The NU, has largely been at the forefront of Madrassah reform, teaching Islam to be a useful part of contemporary society, where conservatism is largely traditional and not religious. Abdurrahman Wahid's persistence in making Indonesia a pluralistic society where Islam is a part of it, has so far kept in check the rise of the Wahhabists and Jihadists, thanks to the huge grassroots support of NU. With Wahid gone, talk is beginning to surface on what's next for NU... we worry that NU may decline, if so, who is going to fill or partially fill the void?

I just hope that the Amien Rais line of thought does not prosper at the expense of Gus Dur type NU.

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 33):
We're slowly winning here, but a few years of lapse by the mainstream religious leaders and scholars must be paid back with many years of hard work against the radicals...

Yes, and one of the least appreciated developments. Still very tenuous, but still quite remarkable.

And no more Prabowo's thank you!!
 
HKA
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:07 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):

They don't turn a blind eye, rather they nature it and support it but when it comes back to bite them, it becomes terrorism.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
Have you seen evangelical Christians in the USA? It's the exact same thing. Don't think they are nonviolent, either. They occasionally rise to be Commander in Chief.

Good point. Ask the Iraqis.
 
mandala499
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:35 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
I just hope that the Amien Rais line of thought does not prosper at the expense of Gus Dur type NU.

Well, they went head to head throughout the decade... The Amien Rais line is becoming less and less popular, even within his own party! The new "PAN" leaders are more pluralistic and waaaay more in line with reality than Amien Rais. I'm not going to consider giving PAN my vote until Amien Rais steps down though!

Sectarian violence in Ambon and Poso put Amien Rais in a hard situation. Both PAN and NU now have their social agendas full on the social demands of de-radicalization... with NU tackling the countryside and PAN tackling the urban middle class... which, with Muhammadiyah and Al-Azhar followers closely following them for any hints of anything that goes towards sectarian lines. This is where Gus Dur has won a lot of support, the Muslim Middle Class behind closed doors. The government's Ministry for Religious Affairs has a lot of catching up to do, and a lot of Islamic organization have begun pointing that the radicalization that has happened, was also matched by fringe ultra-liberal sects which drew a lot of criticism from all sides (even non-Muslims)... and the growth of the two extreme fringes were results of the ministry's inability to face reality and clean itself from corruption (it is reported to be the most or top 3 most corrupt government department).

The ministry lost out last year when basically all the Islamic organizations (with some former accused hardliners/terrorists/what have you) got together and said that the rise of radical Islam is threatening the very foundation of pluralistic Indonesia and its unique combination of Islam with it's non-Islamic traditions, and that terrorism is a result of society's failure to look after one another, and the government's failure to support social and religious frameworks that is geared towards social harmony and tolerance.

I can't remember exactly where is the reference online, but I recall last year such a "conference" resulted in an outline of the underlying problems that need to be addressed if we are to stop terrorism. Both liberal and conservative Muslims agree to that, but on how much deradicalization need to go on both religious and secular aspects needs to be worked on. The president was embarrassed that he told the ministry of religious affairs to get its act together because sooner or later, the terrorists are going to target the government (which includes the ministry of religious affairs), and it didn't take long for the counter-terrorist units to interdict a plot by the terrorists to assasinate the president.

This issue is not unique to Indonesia, but is a global problem. Look at the "stoopid Muslim hardliners" in the UK... bloody hell, that's a monarchic country whose established religion is Christianity... It shows how far the world has ignored the danger! Interfaith dialogue needs to press on, there has to be a solution somewhere! Do it right, and the world doesn't have to change!

Mandala499
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NAV20
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:53 pm

Quoting Golfradio (Reply 31):
Saudi Arabia is now the main sponsor of Wahhabism and has extended a lot of monetary support to spread the Wahhabi Islam.

Excellent point, Golfradio.

I can honestly claim that, mere hours after 9/11, and ever since, I have consistently reckoned (and said) that the only place the Western Powers should ever even have considered invading and subjecting over the problem of 'terrorism' was Saudia........

And I still believe that if 'we' (collectively) snuffed THAT particular 'state of conspiracy' out, the whole 'terrorism' problem would largely end - within months..........

PS- apparently President Obama just said that 'Yemen' is the new 'centre of interest' in the 'War on Terror.' I've got news for him - geographically and politically, Yemen is just the 'badlands' of Saudia, there's no proper border, Saudia 'owns' the place. Maybe he and his staffers are finally finding out what I (for one) knew just hours after 9/11...........

[Edited 2010-01-03 06:04:06]
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baroque
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:02 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 37):
And I still believe that if 'we' (collectively) snuffed THAT particular 'state of conspiracy' out, the whole 'terrorism' problem would largely end - within months..........

Mmmm, Nav. WADR, I think you do not know enough Muslims. There is this place called Mecca. And whatever you think, they think rather differently. Now if you could magic away the concept of Mecca, well different story.
 
NAV20
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:11 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 38):
There is this place called Mecca.

Wasn't suggesting nukes, Baroque. I get so sick of their deceit and posturing that I'd be happy to take that God-awful (or perhaps 'Allah-awful'?  Smile) phoney 'royal family' on with an old-fashioned Lee-Enfield.

As some veteran 'old boy' like us, commanding a Home Guard unit, once said, back in WW2, "We will be perfectly all right and I expect that we will do well. Unless the enemy chooses to withdraw too quickly. Uphill......"
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
baroque
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:50 pm



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 39):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 38):
There is this place called Mecca.

Wasn't suggesting nukes, Baroque.

Never thought of nukes let alone mentioned them. Wiki:
Utaybi received little mass support outside of small circles of manual workers and students of tribal origin, of the lower classes and foreign labourers (from Egypt, Yemen and Pakistan.) The Saudi Royal family turned to the Ulema who duly issued a fatwa permitting the storming of the holy sanctuary. Saudi forces, aided by French and Pakistani commandos, took two weeks to flush the rebels out of the holy sanctuary; the use of foreign commandos was particularly surprising since, officially, non-Muslims cannot enter the city of Mecca.[10]

And the rulers are referred to as:
with the previous royal title of "his Majesty" and replaced it with the honorific "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques," in reference to the two Islamic holy sites in Mecca and Medina

I just doubt any invader could get a fatwa against the wishes of the Custodian. And without that, you are fighting the Ulema in all likelihood.
 
NAV20
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:01 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 40):
And the rulers are referred to as:
with the previous royal title of "his Majesty" and replaced it with the honorific "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques," in reference to the two Islamic holy sites in Mecca and Medina

Quite sure that you know as well as I do that the whole Saudi 'Royal Family' are just a bunch of gangsters who 'got lucky,' Baroque.

Calling that creepy gang 'Custodians of the Two Holy Mosques', IMO, is like saying that Al Capone should have made it to Pope...........

They're two-faced creeps in any language. And, again IMO, it's high time the world called their bluff.

Hopefully, Obama will have the guts to do it.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
thegreatRDU
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:12 pm

Say what you want Tiller's murder wasn't terrorism....
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baroque
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:39 pm

Right on cue
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...battle-of-ideas-20100103-ln82.html
To beat the terrorists we need a battle of ideas
ED HUSAIN January 4, 2010

Another botched terrorist attack, and a much-needed excuse for some agenda-driven American ideologues to demand opening ''new fronts'' in the ''war on terror'': ''profiling'' Muslims at airports is expected to be at the core of the airport-security review announced by the British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown.

That thinking is flawed and will make matters worse.

Yemen is not a willing home to al-Qaeda - it is victim to an ideology exported from neighbouring Saudi Arabia. In our desire to blame and eventually bomb, let us not forget the other Yemen: one of the last bastions of traditional, serene Islam.

.....
We are now being told that al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula runs terrorist camps and this justifies ''pre-emptive strikes'' on Yemen. But what is al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula except leading Saudi terrorists - Naser al-Wahishi and Said al-Shihri - who have set up shop in Yemen with a ragtag army of 200 men? Who is Osama bin Laden except a Saudi who wanted political reforms in his own country, failed, and then turned his guns on the Western backers of the Saudi regime?
........

Al-Qaeda's English spokesman is Adam Gadahn, a white American. If it is men who are stopped, we will see women terrorists emerge. Let us not forget Palestinian groups' repeated use of single women as suicide bombers. Do not underestimate the power of terrorists to recruit serving airline pilots and other aviation personnel. Where there is a will, there will always be a way.
....
Unless we in the West can combat their ideas with better ideas, puncture the alluring narrative of victimhood politics, question their self-assured martyrdom, and end perceptions of incessant enmity with non-Muslims, we will be confined to dealing with symptoms of terrorist attacks rather than healing the underlying causes.


Actually nothing that has not been said in this thread already, but perhaps a more authoritative stamp. Should get Nav excited too.
Originally in Guardian News
 
comorin
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:46 pm



Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):

Nice job of stirring the pot, Rabbi  stirthepot  - As an OP you haven't responded to any of the posts and everyone has been suckered into replying with the obvious answer sought.

For the record, I loathe all terrorism - Al Qaeda, LeT, Tamil Tigers, Sinn Fein, Maoists, and the cross-border killing of innocent children by sovereign states.

I think this thread should be renamed " What should we do with Muslim Terrorists" instead of its devious title -at least it'll be an honest discussion.
 
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golfradio
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:57 pm



Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 33):
We're slowly winning here, but a few years of lapse by the mainstream religious leaders and scholars must be paid back with many years of hard work against the radicals... I hope we don't lapse anymore, we're too much of a target and a potential gold mine for recruitment

I sincerely hope for the future of this world that the majority in Indonesia continue to battle the diktats of the "rules of Mecca and Medina". Indonesia having the largest muslim population plays an important role. Pakistan is a lost cause. It having no economic base whatsoever Pakistanis are at the mercy of the oil flushed Saudi Arabia for economic support and that comes at a cost of having to toe the Wahhabi line. The madrassas in Pakistan have already been converted to the Wahhabi/Salafi school of Islam.

It is important not just for Indonesia but also other liberal Islamic countries to realize the dangers of Wahhabism.

The world on the other hand has to play a proactive role in curtailing the finances that originate from Saudi Arabia and come with the deadly rider of Wahhabi Islam.
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:52 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
What creates more al-Qaeda sympathizers than killing children with (US-backed) missiles? There’s nothing like aerial bombing or missile strikes to produce radical hatred and anger.

You and others now have turned the topic a bit onto Yemen. And so we have to look at THIS side. The binLaden family is from the Asir/NorthYemen border area and so the fact that elQaeda now trieds to expand there is not surprising. President General Ali Abdullah Saleh however is not a puppet of the West like the Khan of Kabul Mr Karzai but a formidable statesman. Attention please. Mr Salah may not be up to the ideals of Amnesty International ! But he is the kind of ally needed. General Saleh has conquered in the past and will do so in future. And he has in the past proven to be very furious in assault. He knows that only furious assault can lead to results and that it is necessary to attack in order to conquer as he must and as he shall .
 
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OA260
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:01 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
There’s nothing like aerial bombing or missile strikes to produce radical hatred and anger.

True , if someone dropped a bomb on my family and wiped them out Id probably take revenge myself. So its totally understandable when a child grows up and then becomes radical.
 
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golfradio
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denominator?

Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:40 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 26):
What creates more al-Qaeda sympathizers than killing children with (US-backed) missiles? There’s nothing like aerial bombing or missile strikes to produce radical hatred and anger.



Quoting OA260 (Reply 47):
True , if someone dropped a bomb on my family and wiped them out Id probably take revenge myself. So its totally understandable when a child grows up and then becomes radical.

I would really like to know if you seriously believe that the Twin Towers, London, Madrid or Mumbai attacks were perpetrated by men whose childhoods were ruined by aerial attacks on their families?

I think we should all get away from this compunctious attitude and realize the true cause of this new danger. It is not political, it is not retaliatory. It stems from the very radical interpretation of religious texts that are espoused by a regime that will spare no cost to spread it across the world.

Palestine and Afghanistan are just red herrings. The real problem is the spread of Wahhabism and it's growing acceptance as the true religion.

Edited for spelling

[Edited 2010-01-03 14:55:39 by golfradio]
Bring back the old site.
 
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OA260
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RE: Terrorist Attacks: What Is The Common Denomina

Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:02 pm



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 48):
I would really like to know if you seriously believe that the Twin Towers, London, Madrid or Mumbai attacks were perpetrated by men whose childhoods were ruined by aerial attacks on their families?

No but there are other instances in Gaza and Lebanon where they most certainly are !

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