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Tugger
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Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:44 am

Google is rethinking its presence in China after a massive cyber-attack was detected emanating from there and targeting Chinese human rights activists with Google accounts:

Quote:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Google said Tuesday that it may leave China and shut down its strictly monitored site there, Google.cn, citing censorship rules and a targeted cyber attack on its network infrastructure.

In a blog post, senior vice president of corporate development and chief legal officer David Drummond said the search giant first detected the attack last month and thought it posed a security threat, adding that the company frequently faces cyber attacks of varying degrees.
But an investigation of the attack exposed evidence that showed the attackers' primary goal was to access Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists, Drummond said. While two accounts were hacked, the accessed information was limited to the date the account was created and subject lines, not the content of any emails.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/12/technology/Google_China/

Interestingly Google is also saying they are going to stop filtering content on google.cn and is now talking with Chinese officials to see how and if it can be done within Chinese law. If it can't they will/may just withdraw from the China market.

Another story: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html

I say good for Google, not enough business respond to the bad business environment that exists in China. From intellectual property theft, to blatant product knock offs and copyright violations, to their substandard industry controls and outright theft of product (not by the gov't), there is much that China must address but won't because it benefits them, hurts competitors, and would slow growth and employment.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
johnboy
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:21 am

They should've never kowtowed to the Chinese in the first place. IMHO they took a big hit in their credibility.
 
Derico
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:48 am

But, at least Google is standing up. The same cannot be said for all the other major corporations of the world, internet, retail, food chains, and manufacturing that do business in China and turn a blind eye to what that regime does.

For that, my respects to Google. At last some corporate sense of duty and it's refreshing to see they are willing to sacrifice their bottom line but not make a profit out of silencing freedom of speech (for which they owe their concept as a company), and bow to bureaucratic censors.

It always amazed me how internet and search engines could do China when their whole concept of information exchange which they depend on is so violated there.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
TheCol
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:01 am

Hopefully Google will stick around and give the Communist Party a few more sleepless nights.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:39 am

The official announcement from Google, in part:

Quote:
We launched Google.cn in January 2006 in the belief that the benefits of increased access to information for people in China and a more open Internet outweighed our discomfort in agreeing to censor some results. At the time we made clear that "we will carefully monitor conditions in China, including new laws and other restrictions on our services. If we determine that we are unable to achieve the objectives outlined we will not hesitate to reconsider our approach to China."

These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-approach-to-china.html

Nice to see Google living up to its corporate motto: "Don't be evil."
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:38 pm



Quoting Johnboy (Reply 1):
They should've never kowtowed to the Chinese in the first place. IMHO they took a big hit in their credibility.

You could say that, but more important is the idea that they thought that they could do some good there. On realizing that perhaps they can't, they're pulling out.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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MaverickM11
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:43 pm



Quoting Johnboy (Reply 1):
They should've never kowtowed to the Chinese in the first place. IMHO they took a big hit in their credibility.

On the flipside, they kowtow to get into the market, penetrate it wide and deep, and then take off the filters. That could be much more positive than the value of the "credibility hit", which was probably nil.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
B2443
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:46 pm

Google.cn has never really taken off in China. Baidu is subject to the same kind of censorship and so are the others.

Google.cn annual revenue is estimated between 300-600m USD so that would be relatively a small "calculated" price to pay to make a "calculated" political point. But the bottom line is we are still a capitalist society and not sure how many really heavies like GM would follow suit.
 
lukeyboy95
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:06 pm

And the regime continues...

Quoting Derico (Reply 2):
But, at least Google is standing up

Absolutely, choosing to recognise the Chinesse governments paranoia and restriction on the gift that is free internet browsing, is a healthy step for a company whos very principles are based on media freedom and openness.

Yet another stage in the hypocracy of a country emerging fully as a huge power in the world, yet failing to integrate fully with the rest of the world in terms of media freedom. I wonder what the citizens will think of this - since google doesn't have a huge stake in China, I'd say backlash would be minimal. I know I used to find it a major pain in the arse when I couldn't get onto BBC news when I was there... and that was before the days of Facebook.

Question; this may be silly, but is Airliners.net restricted in China? Or are they just not so interested!? I very rarely see posters from P.R.C, but obviously alot of active members in Hong Kong and Taiwan which is great...
Breaking down the stereotypes - one by one
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:14 pm



Quoting B2443 (Reply 7):
Google.cn has never really taken off in China.



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 4):
Nice to see Google living up to its corporate motto:



Quoting Derico (Reply 2):
But, at least Google is standing up

Apparently google.cn doesn't do well at all, so this could also be a convenient cover for shutting down a money losing operation.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Derico
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:41 pm

It's rare that I defend corporate ethics, but.... while it may be true google could have been leaving anyways, at least they spoke up. Sure, if we are cynical enough we could say it's good public relations to be gotten out of a bad business move, but I still will try to give corporations a sliver of a benefit of the doubt (except insurance cos)
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Att

Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:40 am

Its a good move......Hopefully other companies put Freedom of speech before business.....Maybe Democracy will succeed in most countries.

regds
MEL.

[Edited 2010-01-13 18:40:33]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
geekydude
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:52 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Apparently google.cn doesn't do well at all, so this could also be a convenient cover for shutting down a money losing operation.

That's how many people in China think of the move. After all, the NSA seems to be able monitor all communications, including Gmail maybe; and Google has not thrown a hissy fit about it yet.
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TheCol
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:21 am



Quoting Geekydude (Reply 12):
After all, the NSA seems to be able monitor all communications, including Gmail maybe

Are you saying that Google is allowing the NSA to hack into Gmail accounts?
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
B2443
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:58 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 13):
Google is allowing the NSA to hack into

I wouldn't be surprised if google is required to submit to NSA, in which case, NSA doesn't have to 'hack' at all. Does anyone still believe here in the US that our yahoo, homail, gamil, cell phones, landlines are NOT monitored by the government?
 
TheCol
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RE: Google Changing In China After Large Cyber Attack

Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:43 am



Quoting B2443 (Reply 14):
Does anyone still believe here in the US that our yahoo, homail, gamil, cell phones, landlines are NOT monitored by the government?

If you mean they are "always watching/listening", there is no smoking gun that points the contrary.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.

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