FlyDeltaJets87
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John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:29 pm

This video, caught on C-SPAN, was taken during an oral "Yay/Nay" vote in the House. It's sickening and demonstrates the blatant corruption of Congressman John Murtha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywgUCdefSW8

Thoughts?
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N328KF
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 pm

This is all you need to know about John Murtha to realize his character:

http://www.flyjohnstownairport.com/
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:40 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Thread starter):
This video, caught on C-SPAN, was taken during an oral "Yay/Nay" vote in the House. It's sickening and demonstrates the blatant corruption of Congressman John Murtha.

It's so blatant that I would think that it would be grounds for impeachment, shouldn't it?

The amazing thing is that this is 3 years old. How did Pennsylvanians re-elect this guy? Has he bought off that many people?
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NIKV69
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:53 pm

Don't worry people, tomorrow begins the revolution. Murtha's time will come and he will be shown the door.
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Mir
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:56 pm

Why the hell do we bother with voice votes? Way too much chance for manipulation (like the shouting in the video). Just have them raise their hands and be done with it.

-Mir
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texan
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:13 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Thread starter):
This video, caught on C-SPAN, was taken during an oral "Yay/Nay" vote in the House. It's sickening and demonstrates the blatant corruption of Congressman John Murtha.

First of all, I agree it is disgusting and think Murtha is an embarrassment to Democrats, Congress, and Pennsylvania. I want him out of Congress and, if anybody can make charges sick against him, thrown in jail for being a corrupt S.O.B. But that is just my opinion.

Second, I wish this practice was kept to only Murtha. I don't have the video handy, but C-Span has caught dozens of representatives, from both sides of the aisle, participating in this condemnable practice. Saying that Murtha is the only person who does this is like saying only Tom Delay took kickbacks from Jack Abramoff. But, this practice needs to stop and it needs to stop yesterday.

Texan
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Mir
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:29 pm



Quoting Texan (Reply 5):
Second, I wish this practice was kept to only Murtha. I don't have the video handy, but C-Span has caught dozens of representatives, from both sides of the aisle, participating in this condemnable practice

Hell, Sensenbrenner himself decided to shut the Democrats out of a hearing when he was a chair.

-Mir
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MattRB
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:36 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Just have them raise their hands and be done with it.

In this day and age, they should be able to just push a button and the vote should be recorded digitally for posterity.
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texan
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:55 pm



Quoting MattRB (Reply 7):
In this day and age, they should be able to just push a button and the vote should be recorded digitally for posterity.

They do have that. The problem is that C-Span has also caught representatives pressing the buttons of fellow representatives during those votes. Again, both sides of the aisle were caught in the act. Lots of crap going on there.

Texan
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LTU932
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:16 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Why the hell do we bother with voice votes? Way too much chance for manipulation (like the shouting in the video). Just have them raise their hands and be done with it.

Even if you'd go for the electronic vote or electronic balloting, a parliamentary vote can still be manipulated either way. Judging from that video, Mr Murtha would have still twisted a vote cast by handraising into the result of his liking.
 
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:35 am



Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
This is all you need to know about John Murtha to realize his character:

http://www.flyjohnstownairport.com/

The 2005 BRAC directed the Marine Corps Reserve Light helicopter squadron based at Johnstown be re-located to McGuire AFB NJ, the move will take place this fall and their new hangars at McGuire (Fort Dix) is almost complete. This move is taking Marine Corps assets (Murtha is a former Marine) out of his district and into a Republican District.
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TheCol
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:05 am



Quoting Texan (Reply 8):

Isn't there any sort of protocol established to prevent inappropriate comments and behavior? A lot of that stuff wouldn't fly in most Commonwealth legislatures.
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texan
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:22 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 11):
Isn't there any sort of protocol established to prevent inappropriate comments and behavior? A lot of that stuff wouldn't fly in most Commonwealth legislatures.

I'm sure there is . . . I'll take a look and try to find some specific language in the House rules later today.

Although I should also point out that, in the events I'm referencing at least, the inappropriate behavior was thankfully just on procedural votes and not on legislation. The conduct is still wrong, but it does lessen the impact somewhat.

Texan
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Aaron747
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:00 pm

If Murtha possessed an iota of integrity and/or common decency, he'd resign. The fact that he hasn't in three years says everything. This man's political career has the overall value of a spoonful of pond scum.
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seb146
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:55 pm

Interesting....

When the exact same thing happened a few years ago when a Republican did it, not a PEEP out of the right. When "you lie" was shouted at the President by a Republican, he was expressing his right to free speech. Yet, when ANY Democrat does anything even REMOETLY similar, they are evil and need to be replaced by a Republican. Are you freakin' kidding me?

But, I expect no less from the party of "party before country." As long as the right does it, it is acceptable, but when anyone else even thinks about it, how dare they! Flaming against me starting in 3.. 2.. 1..
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Dreadnought
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:57 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
When the exact same thing happened a few years ago when a Republican did it, not a PEEP out of the right.

Do you have video of that? I'd be interested.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
When "you lie" was shouted at the President by a Republican, he was expressing his right to free speech.

And he was right as well. At the time, the bill contained all the elements the President claimed were not in it. I don't know about you, but when someone lies to my face, I tend to react.
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ATTart
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:05 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):

You have trash coming from both sides. It is like grade school kids in the school yard calling each other poopy pants, no your poopy pants. I am going to tell my mommy on you..(Their Party Members/ The Public). I gotcha you, no I got you!!!!!
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Aaron747
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:16 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):

And he was right as well. At the time, the bill contained all the elements the President claimed were not in it. I don't know about you, but when someone lies to my face, I tend to react.

Perhaps so but he wasn't right to shout it out...the fact that you support that kind of behavior unfortunately says a lot. It was a State of the Union address, not a 4th grade playground with yard duty approaching.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
But, I expect no less from the party of "party before country."

Since when did that become their moniker?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
Yet, when ANY Democrat does anything even REMOETLY similar, they are evil and need to be replaced by a Republican. Are you freakin' kidding me?

Murtha didn't do anything similar to anyone other than transcending the usual level of BS and incompetence in the building. He was just plainly being an idiot for all to see. Why do you feel the need to defend him? You're happy with the current state of political discourse? He's part of the problem with garbage like this.
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:29 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 17):
Perhaps so but he wasn't right to shout it out...the fact that you support that kind of behavior unfortunately says a lot. It was a State of the Union address, not a 4th grade playground with yard duty approaching.

It was not a State of the Union address - he came that day to do a sales call to Congress for health care. And if a salesman lies to me, I will call him a liar.

What's this crap about treating the President like he's the Queen? I like the way they do it in the British parliament - plenty of shouting, and the opportunity of the Members to ask direct questions of the head of government, which we don't allow.
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ATTart
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:34 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
And if a salesman lies to me, I will call him a liar.

Well, I don't see him as a liar..
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:42 pm



Quoting ATTart (Reply 19):
Well, I don't see him as a liar..

I find myself wondering how much stuff you've bought from Billy Mays...
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ATTart
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:48 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):

I find myself wondering how much stuff you've bought from Billy Mays...

So because I don't agree with you, you question my ability of making of my own mind? That I buy trash from any salesman? Good one, you just might bring me over to your side! It's a good tactic..

I did however have to Google who Billy Mays was.. The name did sound familiar, but I did not know who he was. Assumption, is never good.

[Edited 2010-01-19 09:52:45]
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Dreadnought
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:54 pm



Quoting ATTart (Reply 21):
So because I don't agree with you, you question my ability of making of my own mind? That I buy trash from any salesman? Good one, you just might bring me over to your side! It's a good tactic..

Not because you disagree with me, but simply that Obama made certain claims at the time about no money going to abortions or illegal immigrants and so forth, and where it became clear afterward as details came out that those things were indeed in the bill at the time he made the speech. He lied.

My only question to you is what do you do when somebody tells you something that is not true?
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ATTart
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:06 pm

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):


Not because you disagree with me, but simply that Obama made certain claims at the time about no money going to abortions or illegal immigrants and so forth, and where it became clear afterward as details came out that those things were indeed in the bill at the time he made the speech. He lied.

My only question to you is what do you do when somebody tells you something that is not true?

Well lies come from both sides. There is more in the bill I agree with than I disagree with. Can you tell me that the far right does not lie about what is in the bill or not? Like I said it comes from both sides. But I will not throw the baby out with the bath water.

To answer that question: I take the person to the side and ask questions and ask them to back it up. I don't feel the need to make a public spectacle about something. But respect needs to come from both sides.

[Edited 2010-01-19 10:07:59]
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ATTart
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:12 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):

Not because you disagree with me, but simply that Obama made certain claims at the time about no money going to abortions or illegal immigrants and so forth, and where it became clear afterward as details came out that those things were indeed in the bill at the time he made the speech. He lied.

Also did you call out Sarah Palin on the death panel? See lies come from both sides. Yes you did insult me regarding the Billy Mays post. You implied that I am a sucker.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:27 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
Yet, when ANY Democrat does anything even REMOETLY similar, they are evil and need to be replaced by a Republican. Are you freakin' kidding me?

A) How was "YOU LIE!" even remotely similar to John Murtha manipulating the vote to his liking? Please entertain us with your thought process there.
B) Plenty of people on the right were criticizing Joe Wilson's comment. You've just already chosen to forget that since it's easier and "better" for your argument to say "The right didn't complain" (I say "better" in quotes and very loosely there).

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 17):
Murtha didn't do anything similar to anyone other than transcending the usual level of BS and incompetence in the building. He was just plainly being an idiot for all to see. Why do you feel the need to defend him? You're happy with the current state of political discourse? He's part of the problem with garbage like this.

Thanks Aaron.  Smile As is usually the case, you bring a sense of balance to the thread. We may not always agree but you call the garbage from both sides when you see it.

Quoting Texan (Reply 5):
Second, I wish this practice was kept to only Murtha. I don't have the video handy, but C-Span has caught dozens of representatives, from both sides of the aisle, participating in this condemnable practice. Saying that Murtha is the only person who does this is like saying only Tom Delay took kickbacks from Jack Abramoff. But, this practice needs to stop and it needs to stop yesterday.

I definitely agree. Any Republicans caught doing this as well, I'd be happy to call for their resignation and/or impeachment as well. I can't imagine this type of practice by Murtha is legal, never mind ethical.

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
Why the hell do we bother with voice votes? Way too much chance for manipulation (like the shouting in the video). Just have them raise their hands and be done with it.

That I think it's fair to see who votes "Yay" or "Nay" on each bill, which if the vote is only oral, cannot be done.
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Aaron747
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:32 pm



Quoting ATTart (Reply 24):
Yes you did insult me regarding the Billy Mays post. You implied that I am a sucker.

This is par for the course lately.

Quoting ATTart (Reply 23):
Well lies come from both sides.

Indeed they do.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
My only question to you is what do you do when somebody tells you something that is not true?

I tell them it's wrong, and why, but without shouting or antics - since those both raise blood pressure and get no discernible results other than simultaneously making me look like an idiot and a jerk.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
It was not a State of the Union address - he came that day to do a sales call to Congress for health care

Your dislike of the message or the man does not change the actual title of the address. I don't dispute that he used the speech to stump health care, but your continued advocacy of an inappropriate response is reflective of tantrum tactics, which usually get children told to sit in the corner and be quiet. In all fairness, as idiotic as the Democratic agenda has been, the GOP has not been able to do the work necessary to get a massive populist opposition to these bills through. They got halfway there, but it's not enough. Maybe if they'd gone about it differently, we'd at least be looking at something having been passed to eliminate state line insurance limitations.

From where I'm sitting, both sides are the bad guy.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
I like the way they do it in the British parliament

Take it up with the House/Senate rules committees then. We have our traditions of decorum and so do they. The occupant of the White House has been treated like a king since the inception of the Presidency - nothing new or notable.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 25):
We may not always agree but you call the garbage from both sides when you see it.

No problem Delta - since I don't have to listen to the partisan infantilism on a daily basis out here, it's a lot easier to see the forest for the trees.
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Dreadnought
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RE: John Murtha's Insult To Democracy.

Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:54 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 26):
Take it up with the House/Senate rules committees then. We have our traditions of decorum and so do they. The occupant of the White House has been treated like a king since the inception of the Presidency - nothing new or notable.

Nobody knows manners and decorum like the British. They pretty much invented them. And if the Brits decided that MPs needed to have the ability to speak up when they hear bullshit, I think it's worth paying attention to.
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