dxing
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Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:17 pm

Hooray and Hallauiah it looks as if the current versions of the health care bills under consideration may actually be DOA!!!!!!  

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9DC8T585&show_article=1

Pelosi: I Dont See The Votes For It At This Time

WASHINGTON (AP) - Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that she lacks the votes to quickly move the Senate's sweeping health overhaul bill through the House, a potentially devastating blow to President Barack Obama's signature issue.


Thank goodness. Maybe now the democrats will get the hint and start taking the GOP a little more seriously. How many times do they have to get whacked on the head to understand that the public did not want the reform they (the democrats) were pushing???

        

Humorous is the change in attitude she now displays. Last line in the article:

"We're not in a big rush," Pelosi said. "Pause, reflect."

Gosh, what happened to "By July"? "By Labor day"? "By the end of the year"? Seemed like the rush was on then. Perhaps if she pauses and reflects long enough she'll see what it is that the publice really wants which is sensible, incrementally, non big government market based health care reform!!! Nahhhhh who am I kidding?   

[Edited 2010-01-21 12:23:46]

I changed the title of this thread to more accurately reflect the subject.

[Edited 2010-01-21 12:27:37]
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
ipodguy7
Posts: 455
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RE: Could It Be True? Current Health Care Reform Dead?

Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:19 pm

As a concerned citizen of this (once) great country, I sure hope it is. America has spoken, we do not want this socialist healthcare. Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?
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NIKV69
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:53 pm



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

Well because Pelosi and Obama may not think it's the greatest.

I agree though definately a great day in this country's history. The people spoke. What is funny is the GOP had nothing to do with it. She didn't have the votes of her own people. Don't forget that.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
LAXintl
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:03 pm

 bigthumbsup 
Hopefully more rational thinking will set in, and the closed door, 2000 page crammed down socialist agenda will be  tombstone 

Going forward lets instead work to bring forward small but widely supportable individual legislation to address specific issues related to insurance and health care, such as tort reform, ability to purchase coverage across state lines, closing the medicare donut etc.

The attempt and time spent to potentially negatively effect health coverage for 270million Americans in order cover 30mil uninsured folks was simple politcal folly, particuarly when the nation today faces much more pressing issues.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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2707200X
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:03 pm

Whats so great about a healthcare system that lets insurance companies drop customers that have a pre existing condition or drop people newly diagnosed with an illness would any of you conservatives support this kind of health care.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
windy95
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:17 pm



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
"We're not in a big rush," Pelosi said. "Pause, reflect."

Another lie flying out of her mouth. How many Obama , Reid and Pelosi have utterd in the last year would take a long time to count. They seemed more like Moe, Larry and Curly trying to shove this debacle down our throats.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:36 pm



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

A system that doesn't cover all of it's citzens?

A system that allows drug companies to advertise on TV? Only one other nation besides the US does that.

A system that doesn't negotiate prices with the drug companies, and allows them to rob, literally, those who need medication?

A system that fights and fights and fights to keep from paying legitimate claims from policy holders?

The greatest system? Only if you're lucky enough to afford it.

What a crock of crap that line was.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
slider
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:18 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
A system that doesn't cover all of it's citzens?

No one is denied health care. No one.

And for those who can’t afford it, we already have a plethora of government programs to assist.

There are legitimate ways to address the cost crisis, but nuking the insurance companies—who actuarially are in business to make money—is not the sole way to go about doing it. Nor is mandating a govt option; nothing govt has done hasn’t turned to shit.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
A system that allows drug companies to advertise on TV? Only one other nation besides the US does that.

Gasp! The free market in action!! Horrors! LOL

Thank God that we have the innovation, the free market economy and the means to create LIFE SAVING drugs in the first place. Costs? Well, should they give them away?

Now Falcon, we disagree on a lot of things admittedly. But I do wish we would do more to address the cost crisis—that’s the thing, not CARE. We have the best care on the planet, not even close. But addressing the costs, the portability, the malpractice concerns, zapping trial lawyers, and a host of already offered options that have been rejected in the liberal juggernaut steamroller are what we can do to improve the system.

The American people have spoken.

But if anyone actually believes this is dead, please don’t let your guard down. Don’t believe the leftists. Don’t ever drop your gloves, even for a moment. Brown’s election gives breathing room, but not a respite from the battle.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:34 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 7):
But if anyone actually believes this is dead, please don’t let your guard down. Don’t believe the leftists. Don’t ever drop your gloves, even for a moment. Brown’s election gives breathing room, but not a respite from the battle.

This pretty much sums up what is wrong with American politics these days. It's left vs right, full stop. Nothing about putting forward and discussing ideas about how a nation can progress towards greater prosperity, no sir, it's about looking at what letter is behind the proponent and then acting accordingly.

It's disgusting.
 
Ken777
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:35 pm



Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
Maybe now the democrats will get the hint and start taking the GOP a little more seriously

Sure - if the Republicans can come up with ANYTHING but "tort reform" and "selling insurance across state lines". All that does is screw the patients and make insurance companies richer.

Quoting DXing (Thread starter):
How many times do they have to get whacked on the head to understand that the public did not want the reform they (the democrats) were pushing???

As long as employers are paying for most health care costs in this country the public will be easy to fool. If the McCain Plan for taxing all health care benefits from employers then all of a sudden things might change.

Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
America has spoken, we do not want this socialist healthcare.

Like Medicare? Of Medicaid? Or that socialized medicine tax that is hidden in your private insurance premiums that help pay the care giver's surcharges?

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Don't forget that.

People who have to pay for their own health insurance will be remembering it.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
, such as tort reform, ability to purchase coverage across state lines

Didn't take long for that insurance company pap to get listed as "desirable". Go check how much LOWER the health costs in Texas are. LMAO!

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 5):
They seemed more like Moe, Larry and Curly trying to shove this debacle down our throats.

Are we talking about the Dem's Health Care Reform or WMD in Iraq?  Yeah sure

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
The greatest system? Only if you're lucky enough to afford it.

Bingo!

Quoting Slider (Reply 7):
No one is denied health care. No one.

Sure, and there is some nice tropical farmland in Arizona that is for sale

Quoting Slider (Reply 7):
And for those who can’t afford it, we already have a plethora of government programs to assist.

And some nice seaside properties for sale in Montana,
 
Rara
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:44 pm



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

Why indeed?  Big grin
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
dxing
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:52 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
Sure - if the Republicans can come up with ANYTHING but "tort reform" and "selling insurance across state lines". All that does is screw the patients and make insurance companies richer.

For the 6th time:

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

And of course you will ignore it again.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
As long as employers are paying for most health care costs in this country the public will be easy to fool.

Still don't understand the meaning of a "benefit". It has more to do than just my employer paying for part of my health insurance. It has to do with using all the employees to lower costs for everyone, as well as relieving me of having to spend my free time shopping for insurance on my own. But of course all you see is cost. If they were to take the benefit away tomorrow then I would expect monetary compensation in return for what I would have to spend as well as the time I would have to spend shopping for it.

Perhaps now that Pelosi, Reid, and the President have finally realized they can't ram bad reform down our throats and get away with it they will start taking the GOP's ideas seriously and do some real reform that will actually accomplish something other than raise the national debt yet again.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
Airport
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:57 pm



Quoting CPH-R (Reply 8):
This pretty much sums up what is wrong with American politics these days. It's left vs right, full stop. Nothing about putting forward and discussing ideas about how a nation can progress towards greater prosperity, no sir, it's about looking at what letter is behind the proponent and then acting accordingly.

It's disgusting.

 checkmark  Could not have been better said.
 
luckyone
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:02 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
Sure, and there is some nice tropical farmland in Arizona that is for sale

Care to do a little research before you spout off like that? Arizona has quite of farmland and a significant agriculture industry. It yields almost triple the national tonnage per acre of alfalfa, and is the nations No. 2 producer of cantaloupe, honeydew melons, head & leaf lettuce, spinach, broccoli, cauliflower and lemons. And then there's cotton. The entire west side of Phoenix used to be nothing BUT farms...
 
Flighty
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:02 pm

Fantastic, prepare the graveyards for America's non-affluent to go to.

Surely, there must be a way for Dems and Repos to get together and suck the marrow out of the American people, together, for the common good of politicians.

Now, if only we can get this "universal education" mumbo jumbo eliminated.  Yeah sure Then we can have a TRUE America, with real freedom.  Yeah sure
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:09 pm



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

It's right up there in terms of quality of care. We can still make improvements however, especially on cost. There are also a number of fairness issues to deal with, such as throwing people off coverage even after 20+ years of paying premiums.

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 4):
Whats so great about a healthcare system that lets insurance companies drop customers that have a pre existing condition or drop people newly diagnosed with an illness would any of you conservatives support this kind of health care.

I agree entirely. But the bills the Dems put together were not the solution.

If the GOP were smart, they will seize the initiative and introduce a new bill, based on certain incremental steps that can be made to control costs, a patients bill-of-rights, and increase competition. Do those first, and fine-tune as necessary every few years, working towards the time that individual mandates can be viable. A proposal for a constitutional amendment wouldn't be a bad idea either.

And this time, concentrate on transparency, and NO SPECIAL INTERESTS. As this experience shows, health care is not something that people mind being done behind closed doors, like some defence procurement system. Health care affects everyone's bodies and wallets - they want to know what's going on.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
DfwRevolution
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Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:33 pm



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
Didn't take long for that insurance company pap to get listed as "desirable". Go check how much LOWER the health costs in Texas are. LMAO!

Tort reform was a resounding success in Texas. It is credited with a $51 billion dollar increase in the gross state product and the creation of half a million job positions since 2003. Health care isn't necessarily cheaper but Texans are wealthier and have better job security. It is a win for the public.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 8):
This pretty much sums up what is wrong with American politics these days. It's left vs right, full stop. Nothing about putting forward and discussing ideas about how a nation can progress towards greater prosperity, no sir, it's about looking at what letter is behind the proponent and then acting accordingly.

It's disgusting.

Sorry, but I am not going to swallow my ideological differences and just go with the flow on policies that are more in tune with the Soviet Union than those that created the most powerful, prosperous, and freest nation in history. I'll be happy to discuss my ideas next January when this group of statist are thrown out of power.
 
dxing
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:46 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15):
If the GOP were smart, they will seize the initiative and introduce a new bill, based on certain incremental steps that can be made to control costs, a patients bill-of-rights, and increase competition.

About to be done. Look for a GOP package entitled "health care independence bill" in the next week or so. It will contain incremental steps regarding outlawing restrictions on pre-conditions, outlawing caps, outlawing dropping of insurance once your sick. In exchange democrats will have to accept cross state line insurance sales, tort reform, health insurance exchanges, tax credits for individuals and small businesses. Some of this they have already agreed upon, some will still have to be hammered out. Health care reform is still doable but the democratic party has to realize it will have to compromise to get the GOP vote and drop the party of NO crap. The public realizes they are not that and that they actually have some good ideas.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
srbmod
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:55 pm

I got a nice chuckle out of Mike Luckovich's cartoon in today's AJC, and is definitely worth posting in this thread, as it definitely sums things up:

 
MoltenRock
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:01 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 17):
About to be done. Look for a GOP package entitled "health care independence bill" in the next week or so. It will contain incremental steps regarding outlawing restrictions on pre-conditions, outlawing caps, outlawing dropping of insurance once your sick.

And Jesus Christ is returning the week after. The Republicans were in full control for 6 years with all levers of government, and nearly so for another 2 years from Jan. 2001 until Jan. 2009, and they didn't do a single, solitary thing about healthcare. Republican's like it as is, and aren't interested in making changes in it, which is fine that's their prerogative. The didn't do anything in 1994 to 2001 either, so just be honest about it.
 
EISHN
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:16 am



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

Yes, the healthcare system that ranks 37th in the world. The so called "Greatest Nation" on Earth ranks No. 37.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar

Quoting Slider (Reply 7):
No one is denied health care. No one.

I'll agree with you there. My Uncle was billed 4,000 dollars for four hours, because he wasn't able to breath.

God Bless America indeed.
St. Flannan/ Fhlanain- She took off to find the footlights, And I took off for the sky
 
tommy767
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:26 am

Damn. I'm surprised Canada, Finland, and Denmark are just a few notches above the US. I've heard people rave about those countries uni. health care policies.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:41 am



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 19):
The Republicans were in full control for 6 years with all levers of government, and nearly so for another 2 years from Jan. 2001 until Jan. 2009, and they didn't do a single, solitary thing about healthcare.

 redflag   redflag   redflag 

Forgetting that Medicare Part D was passed in 2003 by Republicans? Forgetting the bi-partisan reauthorization of SCHIP in 2007?
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:59 am



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 19):
The Republicans were in full control for 6 years with all levers of government, and nearly so for another 2 years from Jan. 2001 until Jan. 2009,

And the fact that Republicans never had the necessary supermajority in the senate. Dems blocked many needed reforms, including proposals to bring the Mortgage industry under control some 5 years ago.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
AverageUser
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:19 am

Quoting EISHN (Reply 20):

Yes, the healthcare system that ranks 37th in the world.

That's the 10 years old WHO 2000 ranking. WHO no longer produces such ranking tables. As far as the European systems go, one recent general comparison is here.
An intra-Canada comparison by the same institution.
The two together

[Edited 2010-01-21 17:32:29]
 
dxing
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:32 am



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 19):
And Jesus Christ is returning the week after. The Republicans were in full control for 6 years with all levers of government, and nearly so for another 2 years from Jan. 2001 until Jan. 2009, and they didn't do a single, solitary thing about healthcare.

As has been stated many many times, you fight the battles you can win. The democrats had everything under the sun going for them over the past year. A 60 seat supermajority in the Senate, and overwhelming majority in the House. A liberal in the White House who ran on getting health care reformed and look what happened. Yet the GOP never had more than 55 seats in the Senate and that says that no matter what they wanted to do the democratic party was going to block it since they were not going to let the GOP get any credit for any kind of health care reform, period. As has been linked many many times President Bush asked for bipartisan health care reform in virtually all of his State of the Union speeches. Democrats, if it was important them, sat on their hands. So ths argument has been debunked at least 3 times now, but another liberal will bring it up yet again in a week or so as though it has never been addressed before and is some new revelation. Really, it's getting old.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:34 am



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

Wait... with 10% of the population not covered, most of the covered population unable to get the care that they need because of bureaucratic issues and denial of pay, many people going into BK because of illness, and young, otherwise healthy people becoming permanent cripples due to injuries that could be cared for were they insured?

Sorry, it's not a very good system. Spain's is far better. In fact, just about any industrialized nation is better.

I do agree that the reform as described was senseless. #1: tort reform. #2: tort reform. #3: tort reform. If we docs could stop practicing defensive medicine and start practicing real medicine, we would spend a lot less money on malpractice insurance and unnecessary tests.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
dxing
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:44 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
Wait... with 10% of the population not covered

Many of whom have been shown to be eligible for health care through a government program.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
most of the covered population unable to get the care that they need because of bureaucratic issues and denial of pay,

Medicare, the government run program being the biggest denier of payment as well as one of the longest to pay.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
many people going into BK because of illness,

Source? This has been one of the bigger myths running around the debate.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
and young, otherwise healthy people becoming permanent cripples due to injuries that could be cared for were they insured?

Because they decided not to buy insurance, not that they couldn't get insurance. Personal responsibility, two words the left hates.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:49 am



Quoting EISHN (Reply 20):
The so called "Greatest Nation" on Earth ranks No. 37.

Perhaps you failed to mention how much every citizen pays towards all those nations health care?
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Ken777
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:02 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 11):
It has to do with using all the employees to lower costs for everyone, as well as relieving me of having to spend my free time shopping for insurance on my own.

In the 50's it was logical for group insurance policies to be cheaper than individual policies because of clerical costs.

That's not the case today - we have these things called computers and something called the internet and individuals can compare policies and apply on line. No need to have difference prices today - all that jerking around individuals does is push them out of the health insurance coverage. Then the insured get to pay a surcharge to cover them.

Something is really queer when we can't have one price for a certain policy.

Quoting Luckyone (Reply 13):
Arizona has quite of farmland

You missed the "tropical" part. Or would you have preferred a bridge?

Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

Why not improve the world's most expensive health care? Even insurance companies are happy to send patients overseas to cut costs.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
Tort reform was a resounding success in Texas. It is credited with a $51 billion dollar increase in the gross state product and the creation of half a million job positions since 2003.

So how big a reduction in health insurance premiums did you get? How big a drop in, say, hospital daily rates ? 10%? 25%? Sure.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 19):
The Republicans were in full control for 6 years with all levers of government, and nearly so for another 2 years from Jan. 2001 until Jan. 2009, and they didn't do a single, solitary thing about healthcare.

The Republicans did pass Part D, but there has been comments since then if the Republicans wrote the bill, or the insurance companies.

Since that bill OUTLAWS the government from negotiating with drug companies for lower prices the betting is that the drug companies wrote it. Now look for the Republicans happy to pass any health reform bill that the health insurance companies write. Look for Tort Reform and Cross Border Insurance Selling to be the two things that the Republicans insist on.
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:17 am



Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

You are 16-20. Have you worked in the health care industry? Have you really began to explore how much bulls**t is in our current healthcare system? I think it's far beyond naive to think we have even an acceptable health care system. It's a house of cards waiting to fall. I'm not saying the dems had a perfect solution, but we DEFINITELY need health care reform and whining "OMG....SOCIALIST!!" is not it.

Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
we do not want this socialist healthcare

We have had "socialist" healthcare for decades (medicare and medicaid) making up for the bulk of reimbursements. Even the concept of private insurance is "socialist" in principle. But you can go on and thinking that your cute little local hospital with it's nearly 100% insured are representative of the country.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
LH459
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:24 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 27):
Source? This has been one of the bigger myths running around the debate.

I can't leave this one unanswered:

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1

It's far from a myth. A good friend of mine has been through it.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
AverageUser
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:30 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 27):
Because they decided not to buy insurance, not that they couldn't get insurance. Personal responsibility, two words the left hates.

The solution is to get everyone insured right at the maternity ward. Once you're birth-tagged in this country, you'll never lose coverage. Left or right babies, all will have their one and only health.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:34 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 28):

Quoting EISHN (Reply 20):
The so called "Greatest Nation" on Earth ranks No. 37.

Perhaps you failed to mention how much every citizen pays towards all those nations health care?

LOL. And we don't pay up the ass here? Even with a good health plan-and I have a pretty good one, I pay a pretty penny for all my prescriptions, and my youngest son's one prescription.

Have you seen the costs of staying in a hospital room for 3 days? Or how much surgeries cost here? Doesn't matter that you and I only pay a percentage of that, It's a fortune. How about insurance for doctors, who have to, in some ways, pass on those costs?

So don't go lecturing anyone about how much other people in other countries pay for their health care. We have, by far, the most expensive system in the world, I'll wager. We have drug companies that gouge the consumers; we have outrageous costs for hospital stays. And you think we're better off? We're not. We have very good health care, but it's too damned expensive.

But, true to conservatism, you'd rather just do nothing, and let the system rot. It's easier that way.
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NIKV69
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:43 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 33):
But, true to conservatism, you'd rather just do nothing, and let the system rot. It's easier that way

Again you cling to the weak, lame talking points you hear when you tune into Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz. I didn't mean how much things cost when I addressed why all the countries who pay 60% in taxes were listed as having better health care than we do. Nobody can deny the cost of health care is high here. There are so many ways to address it like going out of state competition which I support and using Canada for prescription drugs. We need to ease the tax burdens on companies and get them to buy health care for their employees so they don't have to pay for their health care. There are a lot of ways to address the issues with our health care system but none of them was what your congress and president were pitching. Once you get past the hatred and propaganda that the far left feeds you then you may begin to understand this.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
AverageUser
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:51 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
I didn't mean how much things cost when I addressed why all the countries who pay 60% in taxes were listed as having better health care than we do.

Which country has a 60% tax rate?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:57 am



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 35):
Which country has a 60% tax rate?

Sweden and Denmark for starters.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:21 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Quoting Ipodguy7 (Reply 1):
Why fix the world's greatest healtcare system?

A system that doesn't cover all of it's citzens?

A system that allows drug companies to advertise on TV? Only one other nation besides the US does that.

A system that doesn't negotiate prices with the drug companies, and allows them to rob, literally, those who need medication?

A system that fights and fights and fights to keep from paying legitimate claims from policy holders?

The greatest system? Only if you're lucky enough to afford it.

What a crock of crap that line was.

Rather pathetic is it not? What a crock says it all. What can you expect from the talking heads of the far right. Humanity! I do not think so. I personally am well covered, so screw everybody else. Sound familiar?
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
AverageUser
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:24 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 36):
Sweden and Denmark for starters.

Where is that info from?
 
cws818
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:26 am



Quoting DXing (Reply 27):

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
and young, otherwise healthy people becoming permanent cripples due to injuries that could be cared for were they insured?

Because they decided not to buy insurance, not that they couldn't get insurance. Personal responsibility, two words the left hates.

Maybe they couldn't afford it - perhaps they were poor, not irresponsible, but poor. Is that their fault too?
volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
 
LAXintl
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:29 am



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 38):
Where is that info from?

Sweden has tax rates as high as 60%, with average tax burden of 47.8%, while Denmarks average burden is 48.4%.
http://www.thelocal.se/10402/20080311/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AverageUser
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:37 am

At a flat 28 percent, Swedish corporate tax rate is significantly lower than in many other European countries and OECD nations. Possibilities to defer taxation of profit reduce Sweden's effective coorporate tax rate to about 25 percent.

(Swedish-American Chambers of Commerce of the USA)

Denmark has now taken over as the country with the highest tax burden, according to website E24 and Danish newspaper Dagbladet Börsen.

Based on figures taken from the tax authorities in both countries, Danes now have a tax burden of 48.4 percent, compared to 47.8 percent for Swedes.

Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt is happy that Sweden no longer has the world’s highest tax burden.

“Moreover, the Danish media isn’t even using the most recent information. This year we’re going to land down below 47 percent


http://www.thelocal.se/10402/20080311/ (Mar 2008)

People should know about what the marginal rate is. That is not what your overall taxation will be.
 
baroque
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:57 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 40):
Quoting AverageUser (Reply 38):
Where is that info from?

Sweden has tax rates as high as 60%, with average tax burden of 47.8%, while Denmarks average burden is 48.4%.
http://www.thelocal.se/10402/20080311/

Ever tried adding the cost of US health insurance to the tax rate. And Sweden and Denmark do not fuss about pre-existing conditions and deductibles and whatever other dumb systems attend the US system. And don't tell me I have not tried the US system, I have.

It is like the US lecturing Europe on low unemployment rates at a time when most of the difference was explained by the incarceration rate in the US. Yep, lock up the unemployed, that takes em off the books.

Just make the sick bankrupt and say the system works.

I feel a new film coming on, er at title, what about "Sicko and Sicker"?

{That is interesting, Check spelling knows all about Sicko. Better than I thought}
 
flybaurlax
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:00 am

I don't get why people think that some "socialist" ideas are so terrible. Would it be so terrible to have universal health care? If you think socialism should be stopped in the U.S., then we should stop socialized law enforcement protection, and fire protection. Should we just tell the firefighters to go f themselves and let our house burn because we don't want to use a socialist idea?
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Falcon84
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:22 am



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):

Again you cling to the weak, lame talking points you hear when you tune into Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz.

I've seen Rachal Maddow a few time, and have not a clue who Ed Schultz even is. Boy, talk about a conservative who is so wrapped up in his hatred that he can't even think straight, you take the prize, NIK.

I rarely watch anything like Maddow, because I work til 10pm, so I guess you'd know more about her than me. Now, maybe you can comment with a dose of reality on the subject, instead of on your neoconservative stereotypes of those you can't stand.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 34):
Nobody can deny the cost of health care is high here.

Then WHY do you and the conservatives in this nation push so hard against health care reform, and try to control those costs? I know why-because the drug companies and insurance companies are buddies with the GOP, and we mustn't do anything that might reign in a few dollars profit, right?

Your side, sadly, simply wants to protect those two industries. Period. That's what conservatism is about-protecting business at the expense of ordinary people.
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LAXintl
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:37 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
I know why-because the drug companies and insurance companies are buddies with the GOP

 Confused Um, both the pharma industry and the health care industry supported the Democratic bills.

Why? They would get 30mil new members overnight, and would have a guaranteed 300mil+ market into infinity due to it being illegal not to purchase insurance. All courtesy of a Democratic Congress.

It was the GOP that was pushing for individual rights, and not a massive top down mandate and present to the health care industry.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Falcon84
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:42 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 45):

It was the GOP that was pushing for individual rights

  

You got it backwards. The Democrats originally wanted provisions that would make all insurance available in all states, and that would have the drug companies negotiate their prices-like they do in the rest of the world-so that consumers don't get fleeced.

The GOP for individual rights.  rotfl 

[Edited 2010-01-21 21:13:50]
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Dreadnought
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:46 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
and have not a clue who Ed Schultz even is.

Ed Schulz: the MSNBC host and radio host who admitted he’d have no moral problems committing voter fraud in order to defeat Brown on his Jan 15th radio show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB3j9fpTKkk&feature=player_embedded

The next day he corrected himself - “I misspoke on Friday. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I meant to say if I could vote 20 times — that’s what I would do.”

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583320,00.html

And then you have Kieth Olbermann, who said, "In Scott Brown we have an irresponsible, homophobic, racist, reactionary, ex-nude model, teabagging supporter of violence against woman and against politicians with whom he disagrees."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlfGjGBrNKg

Falcon, you have the BALLS to accuse conservatives of being hateful, when nobody on the right (at least, nobody with a talk show or in office) comes close to this level of foaming-at-the-mouth anger at those with whom they disagree. Can you imagine if Rush or Hannity said stuff this nasty (and not to mention false) Can you imagine if Rush told his listeners to do everything they can to cheat the election, and vote multiple times? But coming from Libs, no problem for you, right?
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:52 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 46):
The GOP for individual rights.

Yes individual rights is being able to choose if and how to get insurance, not the government telling every American they must have insurance and greatly influincing what it would look like, and if happened to be very nice, throw an extra tax on it.

You ever hear the government ever mandate every American had to go out buy anything before? If that is not a top down social policy cram down I dont know what is.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Pelosi..Current Health Care Reform Dead!

Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:55 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 46):
The Democrats originally wanted provisions that would make all insurance available in all states,

Nope. They ridiculed all attempts at dropping interstate barriers, including right here in this forum.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 46):
and that would have the drug companies negotiate their prices-like they do in the rest of the world-so that consumers don't get fleeced.

Nope. If you will recall, they made a deal with Big Pharma that they would not do anything to reduce drug prices or open up import barriers in return for Big Pharma spending a couple hundred million dollars on pro-reform advertising (I'm sure you saw the ads) as well as contributions to political campaigns.
Forget dogs and cats - Spay and neuter your liberals.

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