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OA260
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McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:05 pm

McDonald's 'wrong' to fire worker over cheese slice

A McDonald's outlet in the Netherlands was wrong to sack an employee for giving a colleague a piece of cheese on a hamburger, a court has ruled.
The waitress was fired last March after she sold a hamburger to a co-worker who then asked for cheese, which she added.
The fast-food chain argued this turned the hamburger into a cheeseburger, and so she should have charged more.
But Leeuwarden district court ruled a written warning would have been more appropriate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8481827.stm

--------

A bit petty really and typical of McDonalds in their global operations.
 
rabenschlag
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:14 pm

In Germany, we had similar cases, the most ridiculous one being that someone was fired because he charged his private cellphone at work (thereby stealing energy). The damage was at the level of a cent or so, but iirc, this was also sacked by a court ruling.
 
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fca767
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:17 pm

This is a funny thing about mc donalds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71-h9A2XvWo
 
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WarRI1
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:35 pm

About 25 years ago, my daughter and her lifetime friend went to work for McDonald's while in high school. they were both refused a scheduled 5 cents and hour raise because they would not ask every customer if they wanted cheese on their hamburgers. The customers used to growl back when they did ask "If I wanted cheese, I would have asked for it" I could identify with that, I used to growl the same thing when asked. After enough of that, they would not ask. I guess cheese is still an important item for McDonald"s
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rabenschlag
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:36 pm



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 3):
guess cheese is still an important item for McDonald"s

And I keep wondering: Is this even cheese?
 
flanker
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:47 pm

From a point of view of contract, yes they should fire her. She signed the agreement.

Would i have done it that way if i was management? Maybe not.
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fca767
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:52 pm



Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 4):
And I keep wondering: Is this even cheese?

Is it even Burger?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 3):
I guess cheese is still an important item for McDonald"s

Ya know what  Smile I tried picking a bit of meat that wasn't covered by cheese, and it just tasted like Rubber...I think that's why they use cheese to cover the fact that it tastes like sh*t
 
N1120A
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:07 pm



Quoting Flanker (Reply 5):
From a point of view of contract, yes they should fire her. She signed the agreement.

Germany, unlike most US states, requires just cause.

Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 4):

And I keep wondering: Is this even cheese?

Nah. Just Process Cheese Food Product.  Silly
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tbar220
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:37 pm

Should they have fired her for giving the lady a s***ty burger?

Now at In and Out that would have never happened!
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TheCommodore
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:53 pm



Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 1):
In Germany, we had similar cases, the most ridiculous one being that someone was fired because he charged his private cellphone at work (thereby stealing energy). The damage was at the level of a cent or so, but iirc, this was also sacked by a court ruling.

So stealing is all right then according to you, it just depends how much you steal. A little is ok but anymore is not ?

Quoting Flanker (Reply 5):
From a point of view of contract, yes they should fire her. She signed the agreement.

Well said.
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rabenschlag
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:26 pm



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
So stealing is all right then according to you, it just depends how much you steal. A little is ok but anymore is not ?

No, it is never ok, but:
(a) it not always clear what constitutes stealing. What, for isntance, if someone eats stuff that would have been thrown away anyways? In the case of the mobile phone, I think it is not clear too. You could also argue that an employee is stealing because he is overheating his office. Or flushing the toilet twice.
(b) the amount matters when it comes to evaluating the consequences. The consequences should be in line with the harm that was done.

The case that I quoted failed in both respects, and that is what the judges thought too.
 
nws2002
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:09 am

Was this her first offense? If so a warning over the .10 slice of cheese would've been sufficient. If this was a chronic issue then yes they should fire her.

Why didn't they fire the co-worker who apparently tried to save a few cents by getting a hamburger instead of a cheeseburger to begin with?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:02 am

Where is the world going to.......... 
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JJJ
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:23 am



Quoting Flanker (Reply 5):
From a point of view of contract, yes they should fire her. She signed the agreement.

Well, a private contract can't contradict national law so in the end that slice of cheese cost McDo's 4.000 euro.

The judge is clear that a written reprimand would have been enough or even charging her for the slice of cheese (what, 0,02? 0,05? euro).
 
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fca767
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:33 am



Quoting JJJ (Reply 13):

The judge is clear that a written reprimand would have been enough or even charging her for the slice of cheese

Although I bet she's happy to take 6 months wages than working there  
 
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Francoflier
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:50 am



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
So stealing is all right then according to you, it just depends how much you steal. A little is ok but anymore is not ?

Stealing is never ok, but the punishment for stealing should be commensurate with the amount stealed.

Surely stealing a few cents worth of consumables does not justify being fired, just as you probably would not find fair being fired for stealing a paper clip at the office.
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Mudboy
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:52 am

If this had happened in the USA, she would have gotten her job back, a promotion, $10, 000,000. and a lifetime supply of apple pies........................Land of the free lottery ticket, if you have a good enough lawyer!!  banghead 
 
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fca767
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:10 am



Quoting Mudboy (Reply 16):
lifetime supply of apple pies

HAHA! Apples Pies were the only real thing I used to go into Mc Donalds for, once I had gone off Rubber burgers 
 
ferengi80
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:34 am

If this happened in the UK, I would imagine the courts would have thrown it out straight away. She would have won a case of unfair dismissal straight away. I cannot believe that in this day and age a global corporation such as McDonald's can be so petty... all for a slice of yellow plastic.

I hope she takes the bastards to court and sues their asses off!
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Francoflier
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:28 pm



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 15):
stealed

I believe I meant stolen... Or is it 'stealationed'?

 ashamed 
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airtrainer
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:35 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Where is the world going to..........

This is exactly what I was wondering...
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:45 pm



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 9):
So stealing is all right then according to you, it just depends how much you steal. A little is ok but anymore is not ?

Charging a cell phone on the employer's electricity isn't "stealing". I think the keyword here is "common sense". Stealing requires an intention. An average person wouldn't even remotely think that charging a cellphone is "stealing electricity". It's not that he's doing it maliciously, as in "hey cool, I'm taking so-and-so many electrons away from my employer". Also, the effective cost involved in charging a cell phone is so low that it's barely measurable. Probably the 30 seconds required to plug in the charger are worth more (in work-minutes) than the actual power drawn.

What employer would complain because the employees charge a cell phone? How ridiculous can this be?
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Kiwirob
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:06 pm



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
A bit petty really and typical of McDonalds in their global operations.

I wonder if it was actually McDonalds who fired the girl or the local franchise holder?
 
directorguy
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:54 pm



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 21):
Charging a cell phone on the employer's electricity isn't "stealing". I think the keyword here is "common sense". Stealing requires an intention. An average person wouldn't even remotely think that charging a cellphone is "stealing electricity". It's not that he's doing it maliciously, as in "hey cool, I'm taking so-and-so many electrons away from my employer". Also, the effective cost involved in charging a cell phone is so low that it's barely measurable. Probably the 30 seconds required to plug in the charger are worth more (in work-minutes) than the actual power drawn.

What employer would complain because the employees charge a cell phone? How ridiculous can this be?

Exactly. I bet that same employee uses the washroom facilities as well, thereby 'stealing' water. It's ridiculous, IMHO.
 
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fca767
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:42 pm

I wouldn't work for a large employer if I don't get a free drinks machine  

RAC Gave us free drinks, Duty Free gave us free tea...Royal Mail didn't...and they charge you 40p for this tiny cup size if an airliner tiny glass thing...
I can tell when a company has respect from free drinks  
Burger King I did work for 2 days and got free food  
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:00 pm

How sad! I know that if I owned a McDonalds I would let the employees have a daily free meal if they wished. Most employees probably wouldn't want to eat the stuff every day anyways! I most certainly wouldn't fire an employee over a piece of cheese. Absolutely pathetic. Kinda sad that Im about to go to mcdonalds right now when I finish writing this.
 
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fca767
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:01 pm



Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 26):
How sad! I know that if I owned a McDonalds I would let the employees have a daily free meal if they wished. Most employees probably wouldn't want to eat the stuff every day anyways! I most certainly wouldn't fire an employee over a piece of cheese. Absolutely pathetic. Kinda sad that Im about to go to mcdonalds right now when I finish writing this.

LOL Don't go to mcdonalds...Don't 
You would be a good employer  
 
AR385
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:17 pm



Quoting FCA767 (Reply 6):
Is it even Burger?



Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Nah. Just Process Cheese Food Product.

I worked in a consulting capacity with McDonald´s on a big energy project back in 2000. We had to learn a lot about their processes and machines. I won´t go into detail, but suffice it to say that since then I have never eaten a McDonald´s product and don´t expect to in this lifetime.

Their pettiness towards their employees is your typical case of saving cents for wasting dollars. I must say, however, that it must be a case of the franchise holder, because as far as I know, McDonald´s corporate has pretty innovative human resources policies and is very nice to its employees.
 
N1120A
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:47 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):

I wonder if it was actually McDonalds who fired the girl or the local franchise holder?

Could be either. McDonalds has one of the highest percentages of corporate ownership of a heavily franchised brand out there. They are not at all like Subway, who have a single corporate owned store and actually franchise their franchising.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 28):
I must say, however, that it must be a case of the franchise holder, because as far as I know, McDonald´s corporate has pretty innovative human resources policies and is very nice to its employees.

It might also be the case of a bad local manager.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 28):
I worked in a consulting capacity with McDonald´s on a big energy project back in 2000. We had to learn a lot about their processes and machines. I won´t go into detail, but suffice it to say that since then I have never eaten a McDonald´s product and don´t expect to in this lifetime.

Good. Mexican food, even "Mexican" fast food, is better anyway.
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TheCommodore
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:36 pm



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 21):
What employer would complain because the employees charge a cell phone? How ridiculous can this be?

Read reply 1 by Rabenschlag
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signol
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:01 am

Once with a mate we were in McDo in Australia (I think) and they had an offer - buy a quarter pounder meal and get a free cheeseburger. My mate doesn't do cheese with meat, so he asked for a hamburger instead - no was the reply, the offer cannot be changed. So he asked for a "cheeseburger no cheese" and they agreed... They even called out to the food prepared out back the special order: "One cheeseburger no cheese please"  

signol
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Leezyjet
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:02 am



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 21):
What employer would complain because the employees charge a cell phone? How ridiculous can this be?

Funnily enough with this being an Aviation forum, Ryanair are well known for not allowing employee's to charge their mobile phones on company property !!. Also they do not allow the flight crew to use anything from the BoB service without paying for it. If they wish to drink on the a/c, they have to bring their own empty plastic bottle to work, and are allowed to fill it from a water cooler in the crew room !!!. Now that is tight - oh that's on top of paying for the interview, paying for the ID card, paying for the over priced type rating, paying for the annual recurrent checks, paying for their own medicals and paying for their own uniforms !!!.

 
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N1120A
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:23 am



Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 32):
paying for their own uniforms



Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 32):
paying for their own medicals



Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 32):
oh that's on top of paying for the interview



Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 32):
paying for the annual recurrent checks



Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 32):
paying for the ID card

All of these would quickly land Ryanair in a world of hurt if they operated in the State of California. Only the type rating thing, which can be seen as a qualification issue, would be something they could require employees pay for.

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 32):
Ryanair are well known for not allowing employee's to charge their mobile phones on company property !!.

Sounds like they would get nailed if taken to court then.
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TheCommodore
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:08 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
All of these would quickly land Ryanair in a world of hurt if they operated in the State of California. Only the type rating thing, which can be seen as a qualification issue, would be something they could require employees pay for.

Thank god were not in America then, because I see nothing wrong with it and as an employer I would do the same.

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 32):
Ryanair are well known for not allowing employee's to charge their mobile phones on company property !!.

I couldn't agree more, I think its outrageous that an employer should pay to charge an employee's private mobile or laptop or anything else for that matter, why should they ? Its private and not the property of the employer so why should the
employer pay to charge someone else's mobile ?

Might sound petty but why should they.

Please explain otherwise.
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N1120A
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:11 am



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 34):


Thank god were not in America then, because I see nothing wrong with it and as an employer I would do the same.

Really? Making someone pay for what you REQUIRE them to have to keep their job? That is abusive.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 34):

Please explain otherwise.

Good for morale. More to the point, it is bad for morale to be so ridiculously petty.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 34):

Might sound petty but why should they.

It is petty.
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varigb707
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:21 am



Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
McDonald's 'wrong' to fire worker over cheese slice



Typical of a big corporation. That's why we all need the Unions. Go Local 745!

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TheCommodore
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:26 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Really? Making someone pay for what you REQUIRE them to have to keep their job? That is abusive.

I didn't say that you did.

If the employer requires them to have a mobile phone for the job they are employed to do then they should provide it.

I said in my post a private mobile (belonging to the employee) not one that belongs to the employer !

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
Good for morale. More to the point, it is bad for morale to be so ridiculously petty.

That totally depends on the relationship the employer has with the employee. It could well be argued that there is no need for the employee to have a private mobile while at work, and if you really have to have it, charge it in your own time not the employers time.
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
N1120A
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:31 am



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):

I didn't say that you did.

Look at what you quoted again. It had nothing to do with mobile phone charging.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 37):
It could well be argued that there is no need for the employee to have a private mobile while at work, and if you really have to have it, charge it in your own time not the employers time.

Given the nature of air travel, private mobiles are a necessity.
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allrite
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:42 am



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 34):
I couldn't agree more, I think its outrageous that an employer should pay to charge an employee's private mobile or laptop or anything else for that matter, why should they ? Its private and not the property of the employer so why should the
employer pay to charge someone else's mobile ?

Might sound petty but why should they.

Funny how a corporation can get upset with an employee "stealing" a pen, a little electricity etc, but will probably see no issue with making an employee work unpaid overtime (even "can you stay back 10 minutes?" or time to fly to a meeting interstate, the time spent in the hotel away from family etc) or calling them outside of work hours or ... If you have a work mobile phone, should you charge them the electricity cost of recharging it from home?

I think a bit of flexibility from both sides works best.
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TheCommodore
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:46 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Look at what you quoted again. It had nothing to do with mobile phone charging.

You've lost me there.
I was talking about charging an employee's private mobile while at work. Not a mobile that is given to the employee by the employer, then of course there should not be a problem as its required.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Given the nature of air travel, private mobiles are a necessity.

Necessity only to the employee, its not the employers problem if they have a mobile or not

Again I say if its a private, charge it at home before work, not when you get there.

If its work provide then, again the employer's should not have a problem with it being charged at work as its related to their ability to carry out the job
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N1120A
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:47 am



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 40):

You've lost me there.
I was talking about charging an employee's private mobile while at work. Not a mobile that is given to the employee by the employer, then of course there should not be a problem as its required.

What you quoted had nothing at all to do with mobile phones. Read it again. You did this before.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 40):

Again I say if its a private, charge it at home before work, not when you get there.

Again, as you said, that is petty.
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TheCommodore
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:52 am

I must be having a blond moment, what was I quoting then?
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
N1120A
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:59 am



Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 42):
I must be having a blond moment, what was I quoting then?

Please read the portions that I quoted and noted would be against the law. None of them had to do with mobile phones. The only thing I said about banning mobile phone charging is that it is petty, bad for morale and probably would not be seen as good cause to fire someone in a place like the EU, where most (if not all) countries require reasonable cause for firing. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised that if someone actually challenged these points that they would be found illegal in the EU as well.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
TheCommodore
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:14 am

I was referring to the last quote by Leezyjet+Ryanair which was in your post 33.

He was referring to Ryanair charging there personal mobiles on company property, which you had quoted in your post

Sorry for any confusion.  
“At first, they'll only dislike what you say, but the more correct you start sounding the more they'll dislike you.”
 
MoltenRock
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:20 am

I think the last time I ate at a McDonalds was 15 years ago (maybe more). Gross.
 
Maverick623
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:23 am



Quoting Flanker (Reply 5):
From a point of view of contract, yes they should fire her. She signed the agreement.

Yea, right:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Germany, unlike most US states, requires just cause.

Even in right-to-work states, if it can be shown the manager fired her directly, and only, as a result of putting a single piece of cheese on a hamburger and not charging for it; if the employee sued (although it would cost more to sue than she'd probably recover), the employee would most likely win his/her job back with back pay.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 16):
If this had happened in the USA, she would have gotten her job back, a promotion, $10, 000,000. and a lifetime supply of apple pies........................Land of the free lottery ticket, if you have a good enough lawyer!!

If you can afford a lawyer that good, you shouldn't be working at McDonald's.
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MoltenRock
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RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:30 am



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 46):
If you can afford a lawyer that good, you shouldn't be working at McDonald's.

It's called contingency, aka ambulance chasing. You obviously have very little exposure to the legal system and its realities. Consider yourself lucky my friend. If you have a few grand in the bank you are a target for scumbag, bottom feeding, lawyers (aka.... average lawyer in the US). And Americans wonder why their jobs flee to offshore locales. It simply isn't worth manufacturing anything in the US given the frenzy of American lawyers.
 
Mudboy
Posts: 962
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:51 am

RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:51 am



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 47):
It's called contingency, aka ambulance chasing. You obviously have very little exposure to the legal system and its realities. Consider yourself lucky my friend. If you have a few grand in the bank you are a target for scumbag, bottom feeding, lawyers (aka.... average lawyer in the US). And Americans wonder why their jobs flee to offshore locales. It simply isn't worth manufacturing anything in the US given the frenzy of American lawyers.

You have such a better way with words than I do!  
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29929
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:47 pm

Soon companies will pay employees on the quantity of calories burned on the job.
You did not burn xyz calories today so heres a deduction in your salary.  
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nws2002
Posts: 727
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

RE: McDonald's 'wrong' To Fire Worker Over Cheese

Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:09 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 49):
Soon companies will pay employees on the quantity of calories burned on the job.
You did not burn xyz calories today so heres a deduction in your salary.

Might fix that little problem with have with obesity. Win-win.

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