ogre727
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Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:05 pm

Hi all,

Ok, so I don't like Ipods... I believe the sound is crappy, they are difficult to deal with (don't get me started with Itunes), etc. etc. Until yesterday I had one, and then I left it at the gym...

So I need to get something to listen to music with... Prior to my Ipod experience, I had an I-River thingy which was kinda neat... but can't seem to find one on the internet now...

Any suggestions?
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
stevenlee505
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:18 pm

It would help if you posted a budget. I would go for a Cowon D2+ or the S9. You can't get any better sound quality on an MP3 player and they both have a 50+ hour battery life.
 
ogre727
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:20 pm

Well... I am willing to spend up to USD 500...
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:52 pm

Waiting for Klaus in 3...2...1...

to tell you how you actually love the iPod but just aren't aware of it yet.  duck 
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:03 pm



Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 3):
you actually love the iPod but just aren't aware of it yet.

My thoughts exactly  

Besides this, I'm curious: what part of the iPod don't you like? Is it only iTunes, or what else? As you're willing to spend up to $500, have you thought about the iPod Touch? It makes much more sense than a regular iPod - if you need the additional functions: you can browse the web and check your email, for example.
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Elite
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:28 pm



Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
I believe the sound is crappy

The sound quality on iPods are actually quite decent; rarely will you find another mp3 player with better sound quality. Are you sure you are using good mp3 files and good head/ ear phones?

Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
they are difficult to deal with (don't get me started with Itunes)

iPods are famous for being easy to use! and iTunes is just a simple drag and drop and sync software... nothing complicated. If you are leaving iPods in search of something more simple, you will be sorely disappointed.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:43 pm



Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
The sound quality on iPods are actually quite decent; rarely will you find another mp3 player with better sound quality. Are you sure you are using good mp3 files and good head/ ear phones?

The sound quality is decent, but nothing great for audiophiles like myself. Even with the best earbuds money could buy it was still mediocre.

I find the sound quality from my mobile phone to be better, plus it saves me from carrying two devices. I don't bother with stand alone MP3 players anymore.
 
Flighty
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:16 pm



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
The sound quality is decent, but nothing great for audiophiles like myself. Even with the best earbuds money could buy it was still mediocre.

Really? Wow. That's a pretty rare comment. Most people are pleased with the iPod sound. Compared to even the finest portable audio of a few years ago, it absolutely kills them. Like, go find a $300 Sony Discman such as the D-335. The iPod touch sounds so much better, it's crazy.

But, admittedly, there might be better things out there.
 
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Tugger
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:39 pm



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 4):
Besides this, I'm curious: what part of the iPod don't you like? Is it only iTunes, or what else?



Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
iPods are famous for being easy to use! and iTunes is just a simple drag and drop and sync software... nothing complicated.

Interesting topic, I have often found myself wondering what is the best mp3 player. For me, the things I can't stand about the iPod are:
1.) the "clickwheel" - it is touch sensitive only and must be locked when not in use and can't by used easily without looking at it. I try to adjust the volume when it is is my pocket (or just at my side) and I end up turning it up to loud or down too much. All I want to do is click a button two or three times to adjust it up or down just a bit. Also I have accidentally blasted my eardrums out when I am trying to just skip to the next song and I accidentally brush the wheel.

2.) the equalizer function - it may have changed since my old school iPod Mini but I don't like that I have to choose between a bunch of named fixed settings. Giving them names is fine but give me the ability to tweak each one a bit, let me see what the "EQ" looks like for each name and let me tweak from there if I wish.

3.) iTunes - the only way to control your music is through iTunes. I want to plug my player in and just drag whatever song I want over to the player. With the iPod I must always "synch" it through iTunes. I don't want to HAVE TO use any software, I want to be able to just plug it in to the computer and move a song to it. I want to be able to use it on anyone's computer.

Tugg
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elbandgeek
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:51 pm

I recently got a Zune HD (after previously having a Zune 120, and a 5th gen iPod classic before that) and it's amazing. Sound quality and hardware build are top notch. The screen is gorgous (OLED) and since it's running Nivida's Tegra platform, it's got some serious horsepower (enough to play HD video on a TV with a dock accessory) but still manages incredible battery life. The software (both on the device, and the desktop manager) is a joy to use (compared to iTunes which feels like a chore). The Zune pass is a really good deal, for $15 a month you get unlimted access to songs in the marketplace (downloaded or streamed to the computer or device) plus credits to keep 10 every month regardless of whether or not you keep the subscription active. It has apps, but right now it has a pretty limited number, but the ones that are available are all free (some have ads when you start them up, which I don't mind since they're free). Microsoft hasn't opened it up to 3rd party development since they don't want to have to manage two different app ecosystems with this and Windows Mobile. However, that may change in the future if some of the rumors about WinMo7 are true, as it's basically supposed to be a reboot of the platform using the Zune OS as a base. Also, if you have an Xbox 360, there's alot of crossover between the two product lines. Xbox Live and the Zune Social use a single account for both services, so your friends lists etc. transfer between the two. They also recently upgraded and rebranded the XBL video store with Zune, and most (but not all...yet) content you buy from one is compatible with the other. Say you buy a TV show and stream it on your Xbox, you can then download it on your PC and sync it to your Zune at no extra cost.
 
N1120A
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:24 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
3.) iTunes - the only way to control your music is through iTunes. I want to plug my player in and just drag whatever song I want over to the player. With the iPod I must always "synch" it through iTunes. I don't want to HAVE TO use any software, I want to be able to just plug it in to the computer and move a song to it. I want to be able to use it on anyone's computer.

This is my one beef with the iPod. I like everything else about it, including the click wheel. I want to be able to just move songs on and off my device with ease, like I do with my phone's MP3 player.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:35 pm

You're not going to get decent sound out of any portible MP3 player because they all use DAC's the cost something like 20cents, which is why I laugh when people buy expensive earphones, they are just listening to the same crap sound as the cheap ones, just clearer. The only way to date to get fantastic red book CD quality from an iPod is to buy a Wadia 170iTransport, a DAC and download your music at the highest quality setting; the beauty of the i170 is that Apple have allowed Wadia and only Wadia the code to be able to bi-pass the iPod DAC. iPod with Wadia 170 plus good DAC and a decent amp and you will get stunning sound.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:08 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
1.) the "clickwheel" - it is touch sensitive only and must be locked when not in use and can't by used easily without looking at it. I try to adjust the volume when it is is my pocket (or just at my side) and I end up turning it up to loud or down too much. All I want to do is click a button two or three times to adjust it up or down just a bit. Also I have accidentally blasted my eardrums out when I am trying to just skip to the next song and I accidentally brush the wheel.

Yes, the "clickwheel" has the "wow" factor, but what it could really use is some tactile feedback so you can operate the thing without looking at it.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
2.) the equalizer function - it may have changed since my old school iPod Mini but I don't like that I have to choose between a bunch of named fixed settings. Giving them names is fine but give me the ability to tweak each one a bit, let me see what the "EQ" looks like for each name and let me tweak from there if I wish.

Agree. One needs to tune for individual taste as well as the particular earbuds/speakers you are driving.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
3.) iTunes - the only way to control your music is through iTunes. I want to plug my player in and just drag whatever song I want over to the player. With the iPod I must always "synch" it through iTunes. I don't want to HAVE TO use any software, I want to be able to just plug it in to the computer and move a song to it. I want to be able to use it on anyone's computer.

Agreed. I have an iPod since my car has an iPod interface, but my PC is an iTunes-free zone.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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lowrider
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:47 pm

This might be a little too down market for you, but I have been very happy with the Sansa Clip. It is cheap, light, works with just about any software. You can expand the memory with the microSD slot. Good enough battery life, and simple to operate. My 8 gig one was about $48. Enough that I don't want to lose it, but it won't break the bank if I do.
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madairdrie
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:21 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
the "clickwheel" - it is touch sensitive only and must be locked when not in use and can't by used easily without looking at it. I try to adjust the volume when it is is my pocket (or just at my side) and I end up turning it up to loud or down too much. All I want to do is click a button two or three times to adjust it up or down just a bit. Also I have accidentally blasted my eardrums out when I am trying to just skip to the next song and I accidentally brush the wheel.

I have always hated the wheel. I run a coach trip every year with young people, and at various points on the trip we have me sitting at the front of the coach with various MP3 players being passed to me to be connected to speakers and then the coach microphone placed beside the speakers for all the hear - very untechnical I know, but it works. However the one MP3 player I always make an mess of and find the lest user friendly is the iPOD with a while. I am sure you would get used to it, but it has always stopped me from getting an ipod. Having said that the touch is much better but with my expereince with the while put me off ipods.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
3.) iTunes - the only way to control your music is through iTunes. I want to plug my player in and just drag whatever song I want over to the player. With the iPod I must always "synch" it through iTunes. I don't want to HAVE TO use any software, I want to be able to just plug it in to the computer and move a song to it. I want to be able to use it on anyone's computer.

This is my other big gripe with apple, I hate other people controlling that I do, to that kind of level. I work with someone who is approching 80 who has an ipod so I get called as a "young" person to sort out their technical problems and I find iTunes difficult to use, especially trying to put things into the order he wants them to be in. You would think it would follow a locgical alphabetical and numerical order but it doesn't and nonone I have spoken to can come up with a simple solution to the problem. He wants things in his order, simply and there should be no need to do playlists etc to do it.

K
 
Klaus
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:38 am



Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 3):
Waiting for Klaus in 3...2...1...

Any constructive comments?

Of course I'm responding to issues I happen to know a thing or two about.

Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
Ok, so I don't like Ipods... I believe the sound is crappy,

iPods simply come with crappy earphones. Just get better ones. The iPods themselves actually have pretty good sound quality.

Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
they are difficult to deal with (don't get me started with Itunes),

What problems, exactly?

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 6):
The sound quality is decent, but nothing great for audiophiles like myself. Even with the best earbuds money could buy it was still mediocre.

I find the sound quality from my mobile phone to be better, plus it saves me from carrying two devices. I don't bother with stand alone MP3 players anymore.

Many cellphone players use equalizer presets with additional bass and treble boost, which actually adds distortions but may superficially sound "better", especially with the cheap standard earphones. The DACs in the iPods (especially in the iPhone/iPod Touch) are actually quite good as tests have shown.

One aspect, of course, is how well the respective device's amplifiers can deal with the impedance behaviour of the headphones you're using; There can be problematic matches and better ones.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
1.) the "clickwheel" - it is touch sensitive only and must be locked when not in use and can't by used easily without looking at it. I try to adjust the volume when it is is my pocket (or just at my side) and I end up turning it up to loud or down too much. All I want to do is click a button two or three times to adjust it up or down just a bit. Also I have accidentally blasted my eardrums out when I am trying to just skip to the next song and I accidentally brush the wheel.

I never have that problem. Tip: Put the iPod in your pocket with the click wheel to the outside. Both the buttons and the sensor wheel can be operated through the fabric from the outside very easily and (at least for me) without any problems. Reaching into your pocket and fiddling with the controls that way is usually more complicated and error-prone.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
2.) the equalizer function - it may have changed since my old school iPod Mini but I don't like that I have to choose between a bunch of named fixed settings. Giving them names is fine but give me the ability to tweak each one a bit, let me see what the "EQ" looks like for each name and let me tweak from there if I wish.

I generally prefer to leave the EQ off and use better earphones instead, but in general I'm with you on that.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 8):
3.) iTunes - the only way to control your music is through iTunes. I want to plug my player in and just drag whatever song I want over to the player. With the iPod I must always "synch" it through iTunes. I don't want to HAVE TO use any software, I want to be able to just plug it in to the computer and move a song to it. I want to be able to use it on anyone's computer.

No, you don't need to sync it.

Simply set the iPod to manual music management and you can fill it with drag and drop to your heart's content, while still having all the search and sorting capabilities of iTunes at the same time – much more convenient than fiddling with the file manager.

(Example: Sort by "Last played" and drag over only the titles you've not listened to for at least a year.)

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
You're not going to get decent sound out of any portible MP3 player because they all use DAC's the cost something like 20cents, which is why I laugh when people buy expensive earphones, they are just listening to the same crap sound as the cheap ones, just clearer.

I seriously doubt you will be able to actually hear the difference in a blind test, even with good headphones (as long as these have standard impedance) since the DACs in the iPods are far from cheap crap.

Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 14):
This is my other big gripe with apple, I hate other people controlling that I do, to that kind of level. I work with someone who is approching 80 who has an ipod so I get called as a "young" person to sort out their technical problems and I find iTunes difficult to use, especially trying to put things into the order he wants them to be in. You would think it would follow a locgical alphabetical and numerical order but it doesn't and nonone I have spoken to can come up with a simple solution to the problem. He wants things in his order, simply and there should be no need to do playlists etc to do it.

Nonsense. Simply click on the column headers to sort the list by any criterion you want (you can enable additional columns via the context menu). You can also use the search field (also by different criteria) to make your selection, and the "Browser" feature as well.

It works very well if you actually use its features.
 
directorguy
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:31 pm

I'm an iPod guy-through and through. The one I have now is the iPod nano 5G with the camera+radio. For me, it's the definitive version. The classics are too bulky and big-and get this, they hurt my ears for some reason. The touch is expensive and too fragile anyway. Plus, not as small as a nano.
I'm pretty much used to iTunes-yes, it has some annoying things, but I get around it. The sound quality is fine enough-I won't doubt anyone who says there are better things out there, but iPod is fine on its own.
I've always looked around for other MP3s-and Zune was a solid competitor, but I didn't want the hassle of having to work another interface all over again. Plus, I don' think anyone else in the market will offer that much memory (16 GB) in that small a device.
 
eaa3
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:47 pm



Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
Ok, so I don't like Ipods

I´m just gonna go ahead and say your wrong and leave it at that  
 
ogre727
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:41 pm



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 17):
I´m just gonna go ahead and say your wrong and leave it at that

No... YOU are wrong... how's that  
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea
 
flanker
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:21 pm



Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
Ok, so I don't like Ipods

whoah! i thought i was the only one.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
 
Dazed767
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:41 pm

I have Creative's Zen 4GB. I've had it a little over 2 years and still works fine (mp3, radio, video, photo storage).
http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/...-zen-4gb/4505-6490_7-32589082.html

Not sure what else they've come out with since.

[Edited 2010-01-29 09:41:52]
 
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Tugger
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:54 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
I never have that problem. Tip: Put the iPod in your pocket with the click wheel to the outside. Both the buttons and the sensor wheel can be operated through the fabric from the outside very easily and (at least for me) without any problems. Reaching into your pocket and fiddling with the controls that way is usually more complicated and error-prone.

I have tried that in the past but have ended up skipping forward or pausing or moving to some other menu option if I apply the wrong pressure. I have also found that if I leave it "unlocked" in my pocket other actions can happen as I move, shift, bump into something, etc., so I must still go into my pocket and lock it again. Like I said, this is me, I like to have a volume control that I can "click" (which I can also do through material). The iPod does it for skipping songs, that is what I want for volume. Obviously my preference is not hurting sales much but it does affect its sale to me.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
Simply set the iPod to manual music management and you can fill it with drag and drop to your heart's content, while still having all the search and sorting capabilities of iTunes at the same time - much more convenient than fiddling with the file manager.

Interesting, can it be done without utilizing iTunes (which is something I want avoid)? I have tried "drag and drop" before on the iPod and the songs simply don't show up. The file management is arcane (to me) and all the songs appear to be filed in odd places and are identified with four letters (i.e. FGTA) that I can not figure out so as to get the iPod to recognize the song I "dropped" on it.

What other programs can supplant iTunes? I think WinAmp can and I assume others can too. I don't use ITMS so I don't need any interface with it.

Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 17):
Quoting Ogre727 (Thread starter):
Ok, so I don't like Ipods

I´m just gonna go ahead and say your wrong and leave it at that

Side question: How do you KNOW that Ogre actually DOES like iPods?  mischievous 

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:41 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 21):
What other programs can supplant iTunes? I think WinAmp can and I assume others can too.

On Windows I use Anapod from Red Chair, which presents a Windows folder interface as well as a sync function. It's not freeware, but IIRC it's pretty cheap, but last I checked they only supported the older iPod models.

Also I have MediaMonkey on my laptop and it offers to sync my iPod every time it connects, but I've never tried it.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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Flighty
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:59 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
The only way to date to get fantastic red book CD quality from an iPod is to buy a Wadia 170iTransport, a DAC and download your music at the highest quality setting; the beauty of the i170 is that Apple have allowed Wadia and only Wadia the code to be able to bi-pass the iPod DAC. iPod with Wadia 170 plus good DAC and a decent amp and you will get stunning sound.

Good information.

After reading a lot about iPod sound quality, many sources praise it as-is. But the method you suggest will of course give true first-class audio performance. The iPod is already good enough for 99.99% of listeners, with dramatic gains possible from headphones alone. It's amazing the SQ you can get with a cheap iPod and $100 spent on headphones.
The line-out amp is really not bad.

But, there will always be people who want more. That's a good thing.
 
madairdrie
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:38 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
Nonsense. Simply click on the column headers to sort the list by any criterion you want (you can enable additional columns via the context menu). You can also use the search field (also by different criteria) to make your selection, and the "Browser" feature as well.



I will give it a go, however I have tried all sorts in the past and tried to get ipod users to help and noone has been able to solve my problem. My colleague has no music on his ipod just the scriptures in their original language. Each file is named by book of the bible and chapter, however no matter what I have tried in the past certain books in the bible filed as "1 Corinthians 1" " 1 Corinthians 2" etc. will not play in order. Each book of the bible is saved as its own playlist. The ipod/itunes seems to want to come up with its own order which makes no sense to me. Why it can't play each chapter of the book of the bible (saved as a playlist) in alphabetical order is beyond me, I shouldn't have to use its features, to do this, the minimum I should be able to do is drag them into the order I want. Even if the order was downloaded order I could cope, my big problem and gripe is I cannot work out the logic of the order it works in.
 
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cpd
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:15 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
The sound quality on iPods are actually quite decent;

Especially with quality headphones. (ie, not the junk included white earphones which leak sound - to the displeasure of other travellers).

I'd say a better alternative to the traditional iPod would be the iPod touch version - unless the original poster would be happy to go with an iPhone (and dump another type of phone).
 
Gemuser
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:56 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 5):
iPods are famous for being easy to use!

Only for some people!

"Easy to use" is a VERY subjective judgment. To me there is no such thing as an easy to use modern, mobile device. ALL of them suck!

Gemuser
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ha763
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:09 am

It really depends on your price range and features that you want. When I was researching what to buy, I went to many different sites but started off at pocketables.net, since this is a site run by my cousin and I could ask her questions about the mp3 players she has personally reviewed. I also went to anythingbutipod.com to also check out reviews and the forums for various mp3 players.

I currently have a 32GB Samsung P3 as my everyday mp3 player. I was comparing the P3 and Cowon S9 as they have similar specs. I thought about the Zune HD, but it wasn't going to be available in time for a trip I was supposed to go on.
 
eaa3
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:14 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 21):
Side question: How do you KNOW that Ogre actually DOES like iPods? mischievous

You can't not like iPod's. It's just not rational.

I offcourse am just joking however.
 
Elite
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:49 pm

I am the owner of a 2007 iPod nano and a 2009 iPod touch, and the touch is much too fragile for me. It is currently under repair because of a minor drop; my nano, however, has survived much worse and is still going strong. A lot of the gripes with Apple over battery life is nonsense, the battery life is actually quite good in my opinion.
 
Klaus
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RE: Don't Like IPods - Suggestions For Replacing It?

Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:39 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 21):
I have tried that in the past but have ended up skipping forward or pausing or moving to some other menu option if I apply the wrong pressure. I have also found that if I leave it "unlocked" in my pocket other actions can happen as I move, shift, bump into something, etc., so I must still go into my pocket and lock it again. Like I said, this is me, I like to have a volume control that I can "click" (which I can also do through material). The iPod does it for skipping songs, that is what I want for volume. Obviously my preference is not hurting sales much but it does affect its sale to me.

I see; The iPod Touch and the iPod shuffle can use the same headset remote as the iPhone which has volume buttons +/- and a button for play/pause/next/previous on the cable. That could be more practical for you in that case.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 21):
Interesting, can it be done without utilizing iTunes (which is something I want avoid)? I have tried "drag and drop" before on the iPod and the songs simply don't show up. The file management is arcane (to me) and all the songs appear to be filed in odd places and are identified with four letters (i.e. FGTA) that I can not figure out so as to get the iPod to recognize the song I "dropped" on it.

That is almost always a sign of badly tagged files people still have lying around. Many people have huge amounts of files with messed-up tags and the only information contained in the file system, which is a really bad idea nowadays.

In that case either use an auto-tagger utility to have the folder and file name information converted into proper tags before dragging them into iTunes, or correct the tags manually.

If you drag a title into iTunes which is tagged properly, all the information pops up in the list in iTunes automatically and if iTunes is set to manage the files automatically it will copy the file into your library folder as [artist]/[album]/[track]. These names will be taken exclusively from the tags within the files; iTunes doesn't care at all which folders the files had been lying in and what their file names had been.

If a file is untagged, iTunes will not be able to use it properly. In that case, it is better to drag the files into iTunes one by one, correcting the tag information as you go just once.

If you're handling multiple tracks of the same album, you only need to set the track names and track numbers within the album individually at first (you can just click on the respective field in the iTunes title list). After the last track is done, simply select all the tracks of the album, invoke "Get Info" and enter the album information for all tracks together.

After that, you will have cleaned up the files which will then be usable without a problem, in iTunes and everywhere else.

iTunes lets you set the proper information retroactively, but it doesn't have an auto-tagger included, since normally you'd rip a CD and you'd get the tags set from the internet CD database or you'd get tracks from the iTunes Store or from another online store where the tags will generally be set correctly.

The tags will be written into the files, so after this one-time effort your libary will be in much better shape and iTunes will be much more practical than pushing files around manually.

I cannot stress enough how much easier things get once your files are tagged properly.

Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 24):
I will give it a go, however I have tried all sorts in the past and tried to get ipod users to help and noone has been able to solve my problem. My colleague has no music on his ipod just the scriptures in their original language. Each file is named by book of the bible and chapter, however no matter what I have tried in the past certain books in the bible filed as "1 Corinthians 1" " 1 Corinthians 2" etc. will not play in order. Each book of the bible is saved as its own playlist. The ipod/itunes seems to want to come up with its own order which makes no sense to me. Why it can't play each chapter of the book of the bible (saved as a playlist) in alphabetical order is beyond me, I shouldn't have to use its features, to do this, the minimum I should be able to do is drag them into the order I want. Even if the order was downloaded order I could cope, my big problem and gripe is I cannot work out the logic of the order it works in.

It sounds as if the "shuffle" option might still have been on on the iPod ("crossed arrows" icon is highlighted). Please check and disable it in the settings menu or by tapping it on an iPod Touch if necessary.

When you arrange a regular playlist manually in iTunes, it will indeed play in that order. (Intelligent playlists which are assembled automatically cannot be rearranged, so that is probably not what you want.)

To see the actual order of a playlist instead of a sorted view, click on the header of the title number column most to the left. You can then drag and drop the titles into any order you want, and as long as "shuffle" is disabled on the iPod it will indeed play the playlist in that order when you've synched or copied the playlist to the iPod. If you're managing the iPod manually, you can check and change the order of the playlist on the iPod in iTunes as well (click on the triangle to the left of the iPod icon in iTunes to see and access the playlists on it).

If you want alphabetically sorted playback instead, you can go to the "Songs" menu on the iPod.

As long as "shuffle" is off, the sequence you can scroll through on the iPod is the one that'll be played.

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