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Dreadnought
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Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:14 pm

Somehow I don't think this study will be discussed a lot on TV. I think it explains a few things.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...uggle-sexual-identity-study-finds/

Quote:
An unclassified study from a military research unit in southern Afghanistan details how homosexual behavior is unusually common among men in the large ethnic group known as Pashtuns -- though they seem to be in complete denial about it.
...
The study, obtained by Fox News, found that Pashtun men commonly have sex with other men, admire other men physically, have sexual relationships with boys and shun women both socially and sexually -- yet they completely reject the label of "homosexual." The research was conducted as part of a longstanding effort to better understand Afghan culture and improve Western interaction with the local people.
...
In one instance, a group of local male interpreters had contracted gonorrhea anally but refused to believe they could have contracted it sexually -- "because they were not homosexuals."

Apparently, according to the report, Pashtun men interpret the Islamic prohibition on homosexuality to mean they cannot "love" another man -- but that doesn't mean they can't use men for "sexual gratification."
...
The report also detailed a disturbing practice in which older "men of status" keep young boys on hand for sexual relationships. One of the country's favorite sayings, the report said, is "women are for children, boys are for pleasure."

The report concluded that the widespread homosexual behavior stems from several factors, including the "severe segregation" of women in the society and the "prohibitive" cost of marriage.

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directorguy
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:36 pm

Interesting. First time I hear of this-although I have seen/read The Kite Runner and this is admittedly the first thing I thought of.
If this way of thinking suits Pashtun men, then fine. I'm not that great at trying to decode this pattern of behaviour-where men reject the concept of not conforming to the status quo.. However, this way of thinking is prevalent across neighbouring cultures where men can be 'homosexual' or 'bisexual' but not 'gay' in the Western sense-of acknowledging and having pride in one's sexuality etc.
 
baroque
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:47 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
An unclassified study from a military research unit in southern Afghanistan details how homosexual behavior is unusually common among men in the large ethnic group known as Pashtuns -- though they seem to be in complete denial about it.

Which is pretty much the same as urban myths that have been around concerning some racial groups for at least a hundred years.

I do trust you are going to be able to cite a reference to the original article/study/report????
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:16 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 2):
I do trust you are going to be able to cite a reference to the original article/study/report????

I haven't seen the original, but a quick Google indicates that it is being widely reported on the internet. Maybe one of these links will have a link to the original.

http://www.google.com/search?q=study...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
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andaman
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:47 pm

I am not familiar with Pashtun culture, but I didn't quite get what was the big news?

In many, often Islamic, cultures the priority still is to keep the unmarried girls safe and less important is what the guys are doing together. It's just not necessarily understood the same way we do in the West. My Turkish friend told me that behavior was silently accepted in the Turkish countryside where he grew up and a Finnish friend noticed the same in Lebanon where he served as an UN peacekeeper. I have got confused in Morocco, getting unexpected attention from men in the Sahara desert.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
practice in which older "men of status" keep young boys on hand for sexual relationships.

That was the disturbing part, thats simply sexual abuse.
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captaink
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:53 pm

The way of thinking reminds me of Ancient Greece. Interesting nevertheless.
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seb146
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:52 pm



Quoting Andaman (Reply 4):
I didn't quite get what was the big news?

I don't get why this is news, either. It is common, accepted, and not discussed practice all over the world. Even in the United States. Not the children part, but the rest of it. In the old West, cowboys would turn to each other for gratification, being that there were no women on a cattle drive. So, this is news..... why?
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:00 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):
In the old West, cowboys would turn to each other for gratification, being that there were no women on a cattle drive.

Somebody has been watching Brokeback Mountain? 
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seb146
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:19 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):
In the old West, cowboys would turn to each other for gratification, being that there were no women on a cattle drive.

Somebody has been watching Brokeback Mountain?

har-dee-har-har.... 

Think about it, though: 1850s through the 1930s or so, there were few paved roads or few railroads in the West. There were cattle drives that would last a couple of weeks or a month or more. Men have needs and urges. When there are no women around for a month and certain things need to be taken care of....

I used to have a really good book on the subject. Not "Brokeback Mountain" but real people and places with none of the sordid details. There was a lot more going on than history books print! Gambling, drinking, smoking, drugs.... all of it.
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:36 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):
I don't get why this is news, either. It is common, accepted, and not discussed practice all over the world. Even in the United States. Not the children part, but the rest of it.

Boy, if that's true, I need to get some prettier friends! 

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Quoting Seb146 (Reply 6):
In the old West, cowboys would turn to each other for gratification, being that there were no women on a cattle drive.

Thank god these days we have internet porn! 

And I think we need to introduce internet porn to certain parts of Afghanistan! 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:50 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 8):
Think about it, though: 1850s through the 1930s or so, there were few paved roads or few railroads in the West. There were cattle drives that would last a couple of weeks or a month or more.

In the 1870s and 1880s railroads began relacing many cattle drives from TX to KS. That is why Fort Worth beame a major railhead (it is still a major railhead today, but not so much for cattle, they usually go by truck). That is why Fort Woth also had stock yards, a tourist trap today.

I don't know how much homosexual events happened on the cattle drives, but I would guess not as much as you think. At the time, San Antonio, Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, and Abiline, KS all had a very big hooker industry. These guys had money, and, as you say, needs'.

As far as the Gay Pashtun Men goes, maybe they don't call it 'homosexual activity' because there is no 'love involved', it is still called gay or homosexual activity everywhere else in the world. If they were in many other Islamic countries, they would be executed for this type of activity. This is what is most bizarre to me, the fact they are doing something other Islamics would kill them for doing.
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:17 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 8):
When there are no women around for a month and certain things need to be taken care of....

It's called wanking, not shagging some bloke or asking for a quick bj.
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:27 pm

BTW what's up with the title of "sexual confusion"?

Are they confused as to whether or not they're bonking a male or a female?

If so, the problems are even more severe than I thought....
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:29 pm



Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Somehow I don't think this study will be discussed a lot on TV. I think it explains a few things.

Yes it does explain a few things. For instance, Christians now realize they are more alike Muslims then ever. When following an ancient book that is riddled with errors and contradicting commands itself, just make up a few loopholes for whatever floats your boat, while condemning all others.  


This just in, a new study by the FDA released today shows multiple untreated stab wounds shortens average remaining lifespan by 99.9%.  wink 
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:31 pm

*Packs a suitcase full of various antibiotics and makes plane reservations for KBL.*  duck 

(Someone had to say it!)

In some cultures, male-male play is considered normative behavior and does not necessarily imply a form of sexual orientation. There are simply men who are more into it than others.

This was also the case in ancient Greece, where male-male play and man-teen play were very common. I actually took an entire class on this subject (It was called "Gender, violence, and the body in ancient Greece and Rome." Or, as we students affectionately called it: "Ancient Greek Porn."). Many of the behaviors and phenomena described here were the case in ancient Greece and Rome.

There is usually a code to what behaviors are acceptable and which are not. For example, in an older man/younger man situation (say, a 30yo with a 17yo) the younger partner is the receptive partner. It's "dishonorable" to be a bottom. In fact, in the modern gay scene, being a bottom is still viewed in the pejorative. Not strongly negative, but pejorative nonetheless. Even language implies a more positive spin to the top position: like "top," "active," (in Spanish), etc.

In fact, 30% of men who identify as heterosexual have had at least one same-sex experience, even if it was just a show-and-tell game or masturbating together. And frankly, I like the idea of men getting their need for physical play with each-other out this way better than boxing.
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:37 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
*Packs a suitcase full of various antibiotics and makes plane reservations for KBL.*

Beat me to it  rotfl   rotfl  Im always up for a bit of charity work.  
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:19 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
In some cultures, male-male play is considered normative behavior and does not necessarily imply a form of sexual orientation. There are simply men who are more into it than others.

History has shown repeatedly that homosexuality or male/male - female/female sex was not only common but accepted, as each of these people had roles to fill. Even Christianity was quite open and unconcerned with homosexuality until the past 2 or 3 hundred years.

There are a litany of ancient books, pieces of artwork, songs, pottery and other items, from countries and cultures around the world treating the subject as an every day part of life, as it was. These remains have documented homosexuality as common and usual in ancient Japan, China, India, Native American tribes, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Mayan, SE Asia & the Pacific Islands, Oceania, Northern Europe, and many other countries, cultures, and times.

In many cultures, just as the Japanese samurais one, most samurais had a male (homosexual) lover. Many of these homosexual samurais additionally had a wife. This too was quite common that the majority of homosexuals had a wife, as a wife was for procreation.

It's why I always have to chuckle when I hear some bible thumping, TV minister blather about "protecting" the tradition of marriage, or the "institution of marriage" when condemning gays and gay marriage. The "tradition" or "institution" of marriage was a business arrangement, and women in the bible are considered property, just like an oxen, cow, or home. Marriage was a tool to increase power, land holdings, riches, and leaving heirs. It had little t nothing to do with "love" and sex. The men had their dalliances on the side to satisfy their sexual needs, as did the women. It was only with the coming Victorian and Puritanical age that spouses need to lie, hide, and cheat for their needs outside of the marital arrangement.
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:05 pm

Norwegian male forces who are on regular missions as mentors with the Afghan army has said that they have ocationally been asked if they would be interested in having sex by their Afghan counterpart.... The Norwegians have declined...
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:10 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 17):
The Norwegians have declined...

Hmm well I know two people serving in Afghan and thats not what I hear , and that goes for alot of nationalities.
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:24 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
In fact, in the modern gay scene, being a bottom is still viewed in the pejorative. Not strongly negative, but pejorative nonetheless. Even language implies a more positive spin to the top position: like "top," "active," (in Spanish), etc.

Heterosexuals don't help there, by asking gay men if they're "the man or the woman".
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andaman
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:07 pm



Quoting Mortyman (Reply 17):
The Norwegians have declined...

Yes I'm sure that's exactly how all the foreign army forces have officially reported  
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seb146
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:39 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
At the time, San Antonio, Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, and Abiline, KS all had a very big hooker industry. These guys had money, and, as you say, needs'.

I am sure this will rouse GKirk: Pendleton (PDT) was a hotbed of all kinds of stuff in the late 1800s through the mid 1900s. Sheep ranching (que GKirk), cattle ranching, and hookers. PDT was the Las Vegas of Oregon. Yes, the men would get their "needs" met when they were in town, but when they were out driving the cattle or sheep (no pun intended), what were they to do if they had an "itch" to scratch?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
If they were in many other Islamic countries, they would be executed for this type of activity. This is what is most bizarre to me, the fact they are doing something other Islamics would kill them for doing.

I think what other Islamic countries object to is that it is in the open. Maybe what goes on behind closed doors is not an abomination. I am just throwing it out there. I really don't know.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 8):
When there are no women around for a month and certain things need to be taken care of....

It's called wanking, not shagging some bloke or asking for a quick bj.

That is something I don't understand: Out on the prarie, it was, from what I have read, acceptable for guys to rub one out (or more) in front of or with each other. Nowadays, that is grounds for a beating or even death.
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baroque
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:50 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
I haven't seen the original, but a quick Google indicates that it is being widely reported on the internet. Maybe one of these links will have a link to the original.

So you do not have a link to the original. Thanks again.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 5):
The way of thinking reminds me of Ancient Greece. Interesting nevertheless.

Thanks for the correction, "an urban myth that has been around for over a thousand years", probably since the rise (steady there Doc) of the Roman Empire who presumably would have started that slander while happily at it themselves no doubt.

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MD11Engineer
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:07 am

Don´t know. If I want to sh#g somebody I´ll need a hard-on. I can only get one if I´m sexually aroused. Now I´ve never met a man who would sexually arouse me, but a woman, as long as she conforms to a certain standard of personal hygiene and is within a certain age range, will do so easily (depending on the situation of course). If I´m alone and feel horny (which happens often, since my fiancee lives about 1000 km away from me), I tend to use Ms. Rosie Palm and her five sisters. i never had the urge to get some bloke to "help" me.

Jan
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Phoenix9
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:18 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 23):

Whoa dude! How long have you been waiting to share THAT?    tongue 
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Mortyman
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:25 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Hmm well I know two people serving in Afghan and thats not what I hear , and that goes for alot of nationalities.



Quoting Andaman (Reply 20):
Yes I'm sure that's exactly how all the foreign army forces have officially reported

Yeah, I knew someone would comment on it like that...  
 
andaman
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:50 am

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 25):
Yeah, I knew someone would comment on it like that...

Well... It's easy to believe in Afganistan all kind of sexual contacts between Western troops and locals aren't common, especially between men of course, but hard to see that would be somehow unthinkable among Norwegians  

[Edited 2010-01-31 17:57:38]
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captaink
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:06 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 23):
as long as she conforms to a certain standard of personal hygiene

HAHA, that just made me laugh. But it is so true. I have in the past found myself with a direct path to the 'promised land' only to abort because of that certain situation.
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gardermoen
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:40 am

Very interesting topic. Having discovered the Middle East/Levant region a few years ago and been to some 6 countries, I was totally gobsmacked the first time I was there how sex between men is conducted quite freely and with a degree of "men have to do what men have to do" unspoken attitude. In these countries, as a result, most boys lose their virginity to other men, usually their friends.

I found Lebanon to be they "gayest" place I have ever been to. (and I totally love it   )I really couldn't explain, was it in their genes, culture, religion, or the Mediterranen climate?

However one tries to explain it, it definetly cuts a fine line with principles of Islam from what I have read and from what friends have told me.
On another level, I wonder if a genuine awareness of being gay (a generational thing being faced now) is crossing over with this ancient practice within these Islamic cultures perhaps?
 
Mudboy
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:46 am

I hate to hurt everyone's feelings, but the Afghans are not the only ones that share the "women are for having children, and the boys and men are for fun". You can throw Turkish, Iraqi, Indian, Nepali, and Filipino in that pile too.

You have a lot of Sexual Assaults reported over here in Iraq, in the trucking lanes where the Foreign National Truck Drivers stay. A lot of men and women are harassed with unwanted sexual advances. In fact, a very good friend of mine had their living quarters broken into and was brutally beaten and tied up and raped several times, and left for dead. I once almost put a Nepali guy threw the wall, because he grabbed my crotch, and he never tried that crap again.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:02 am



Quoting Mudboy (Reply 29):
You can throw Turkish, Iraqi, Indian, Nepali, and Filipino in that pile too.

While Filipinos are normally very tolerant towards gays ( a bit of joking teasing, but not the aggression shown often in the West by straight men towards gays), I yet have to meet a straight Filipino, who will accept a man´s sexual advances.

Jan
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:35 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
In fact, in the modern gay scene, being a bottom is still viewed in the pejorative.

Well they say you learn something new everyday, here I was thinking all gay men took it up the rear, now I find out that only some do, now for the life of me I can't understand why a gay man would want to be gay if he wasn't into both parts of the deal, he might as well just stick to women, plus there are plenty of women how are pretty obliging when it comes to the back door!
 
lhr380
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:44 pm

This is a very very interesting topic!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
In fact, in the modern gay scene, being a bottom is still viewed in the pejorative. Not strongly negative, but pejorative nonetheless

Where is this said? I don't think I have ever heard people saying a "bottom" is less of a person cause of how they prefer to have sex??
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MoltenRock
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:31 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
Well they say you learn something new everyday, here I was thinking all gay men took it up the rear, now I find out that only some do, now for the life of me I can't understand why a gay man would want to be gay if he wasn't into both parts of the deal, he might as well just stick to women, plus there are plenty of women how are pretty obliging when it comes to the back door!

Just as confounding as you find it to think of why someone is gay or enjoys same sex attraction/orgasm/etc, it is just as confounding to gay people that the opposite sex is sexually appealing. Are you only turned on by a women's female sex parts, boobs and vagina? Likewise for gay people, it isn't just a mouth or anus that is sexy. It's a whole lot more than that.
 
captaink
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:30 pm



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 33):
Are you only turned on by a women's female sex parts, boobs and vagina?

Among other things yeah. The woman's shape, smell, sensuality, soft skin, soft voice, pretty feet and hands and then the two you mentioned, the latter being something that simply worship, as I told my gf the other day, sometimes I just want to take a picture of it and frame it. HAHA at least hers. HAHA

But I have a hypothesis about human sexuality, in that I think the greater part of the population are bisexual or can be bisexual depending on the circumstances, because apart from physical attractions, sexual chemistry sometimes arise from a deeper connection. I don't know if you guys know what I am trying to say. But because our society is governed by Christianity and other religions that make it such that a person must identify with one type of sexual preference, and whats more, paints heterosexuality as the norm, well we end up with the separation of homo, bi and heterosexual. But sexuality is a little more complicated than that.
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seb146
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:10 pm



Quoting LHR380 (Reply 32):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
In fact, in the modern gay scene, being a bottom is still viewed in the pejorative. Not strongly negative, but pejorative nonetheless

Where is this said? I don't think I have ever heard people saying a "bottom" is less of a person cause of how they prefer to have sex??

I have not heard being a bottom is bad, either. The only things I have really heard is "fat" (subjective) and "old" (subjective) are bad.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
here I was thinking all gay men took it up the rear, now I find out that only some do, now for the life of me I can't understand why a gay man would want to be gay if he wasn't into both parts of the deal, he might as well just stick to women, plus there are plenty of women how are pretty obliging when it comes to the back door!

I am speaking from my own experience from talking with a number of men, women and couples. There are men who identify as hetero who let their woman use toys on them; these same men would never ever want to be with a man at all. There are men who identify as homo that enjoy oral and touching another man but would never ever want to recieve. I had a friend in Portland that never ever recieved, but only wanted to be with men. He did not find women sexually attractive. Every person is different.
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captaink
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:26 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 35):
I am speaking from my own experience from talking with a number of men, women and couples. There are men who identify as hetero who let their woman use toys on them; these same men would never ever want to be with a man at all. There are men who identify as homo that enjoy oral and touching another man but would never ever want to recieve. I had a friend in Portland that never ever recieved, but only wanted to be with men. He did not find women sexually attractive. Every person is different.

That is the point, human sexuality CANNOT be summarized in who puts what where. Human sexuality should not be labeled either in my opinion. As long as you are not committing any crimes, I.E minors and what not, everyone should try to find a way to receive the pleasure he or she desires, with a compatible partner.
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:32 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
It's "dishonorable" to be a bottom. In fact, in the modern gay scene, being a bottom is still viewed in the pejorative. Not strongly negative, but pejorative nonetheless. Even language implies a more positive spin to the top position: like "top," "active," (in Spanish), etc.

I guess the saying, "Tis better to give than receive" even holds true in this context? 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:24 pm



Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):

Well they say you learn something new everyday, here I was thinking all gay men took it up the rear, now I find out that only some do, now for the life of me I can't understand why a gay man would want to be gay if he wasn't into both parts of the deal, he might as well just stick to women, plus there are plenty of women how are pretty obliging when it comes to the back door!

Because there is more to your sexual partner than just a hole and a stick. There's an entire body to explore and play with.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 34):

Among other things yeah. The woman's shape, smell, sensuality, soft skin, soft voice, pretty feet and hands and then the two you mentioned, the latter being something that simply worship, as I told my gf the other day, sometimes I just want to take a picture of it and frame it. HAHA at least hers. HAHA

That's the way it works for me, too. The things that attract me to men are the shape of the body, the muscles, the face, the body hair pattern. It's not just about holes and sticks.
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Kiwirob
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:29 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
Because there is more to your sexual partner than just a hole and a stick. There's an entire body to explore and play with.

See you really do learn something everyday, I just thought it was all about butt shagging  scratchchin 
 
andaman
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:56 pm



Quoting Captaink (Reply 34):
But sexuality is a little more complicated than that.

Yes agree what you wrote above.
Human sexuality is complicated and powerful thing it seems, sometimes even life threatening. In some cultures women's' sexuality is strictly controlled and a woman can get stoned for breaking these rules like lately in Somalia and in Iran they hung teenager boys caught in action.
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:27 pm



Quoting LHR380 (Reply 32):

Where is this said? I don't think I have ever heard people saying a "bottom" is less of a person cause of how they prefer to have sex??

It's just commonly known. Being a bottom is always viewed with some light humor and a bit of a pejorative attitude, much like someone admitting that they like soap operas or some teeny-bopper starlet. It's not something that makes you less of a person, but it's the sort of thing you might get a good-natured ribbing about from time to time. The stereotype is that the more effeminate guys are the bottoms and that the stronger, more masculine types are the tops. I can tell you from personal experience that it's not the truth.

...although every single staunch Republican gay man I've ever met has been a big ole' power-bottom. Never did figure that one out. But after 2000 and 2004 when I wanted to f*ck the GOP in the rear, I'm happy to say I got my wish. Repeatedly. angel 
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MoltenRock
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:50 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
...although every single staunch Republican gay man I've ever met has been a big ole' power-bottom. Never did figure that one out.

That's been my experience as well. I think it's self-loathing much as the uber-xtians trolling mens bathrooms at the airport & reststops.
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:08 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
big ole' power-bottom

I just learned a term that I really did NOT need to learn.  yuck 
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MoltenRock
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:13 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 43):
I just learned a term that I really did NOT need to learn.   

I wonder if Tea Baggers ever figured out what that term really means? LOL! I wonder what goes on in their Tea Rooms.  
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:45 am



Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 42):

That's been my experience as well. I think it's self-loathing much as the uber-xtians trolling mens bathrooms at the airport & reststops.

No, because being a Republican should not mean anti-gay. Unfortunately, a significant portion of the Party seems to think that it's an important platform.

Most of the gay Republicans I know are fiscal conservatives who are sick and tired of the GOP's relationship with evangelical churches.

Being a bottom is not a function of self-hate. It's a function of which sensations give you the best sexual gratification. If you enjoy the feeling of prostatic stimulation (and it's not just gay men who enjoy it), then you'll like bottoming. If that stimulus does nothing for you then you won't enjoy it.
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:25 pm

The other thing is that there is a lot of confusion here about what defines "gay" and "straight." The problem is that there are multiple meanings to those words. No single use of a given word is "correct," but it's helpful to remember that these words are binary words in a multi-spectral world.

A way I like to think about it:

1) My biological sex is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
2) My gender identity is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
3) My gender expression is:
Masculine 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Feminine
4) I am attracted to people whose biological sex is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
5) I am attracted to people whose gender identity is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
3) I am attracted to people whose gender expression is:
Masculine 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Feminine

Each and every one of us would fill that chart out differently.

For me, it's 1,1,2-3,1,1,and ≤3. Some people have answers to 1) and 2) that are completely opposite. Those people frequently have sexual reassignment surgery. Some like really masculine women, but they only are attracted to women.

And when you realize the spectrum of variation in the population and how many different individual combinations are available, you realize that words like "gay" and "straight" cease to offer a complete picture.
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OA260
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:41 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46):
And when you realize the spectrum of variation in the population and how many different individual combinations are available, you realize that words like "gay" and "straight" cease to offer a complete picture.

Thats a very interesting chart and very true.

Take a look at this cage fighter ! You wouldnt think he liked to cross dress would you ....

 
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Aesma
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:00 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 46):
A way I like to think about it:

1) My biological sex is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
2) My gender identity is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
3) My gender expression is:
Masculine 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Feminine
4) I am attracted to people whose biological sex is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
5) I am attracted to people whose gender identity is:
Male 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Female
3) I am attracted to people whose gender expression is:
Masculine 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Feminine

Each and every one of us would fill that chart out differently.

How do I fill it if I like cross-dressing like OA260 suggests ? I mean, being sometimes a masculine man, and sometimes a feminine woman ?

And what about bisexuality or "full spectrum" attraction ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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RE: Sexual Confusion In Afghanistan

Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:05 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 47):

Take a look at this cage fighter ! You wouldnt think he liked to cross dress would you ....

No... but regardless, can I have his number? *drools lecherously*

Quoting Aesma (Reply 48):

How do I fill it if I like cross-dressing like OA260 suggests ?

What's your gender identity? What's your gender expression? Seems to fall under there.

The chart isn't perfect, but it is a tool to illustrate the various complexities of human sexuality and sexual orientation.
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"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan

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