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Aaron747
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Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Well now that the results have come out of a FOIA request on Speaker Pelosi's airborne activities aboard USAF flights over the last two years, the proof is, as they say, in the details. Although the totals are not large, it's this kind of graft that really gets under my skin - these people "representing" us don't pay their own way when they can and stiff us with the bill for all kinds of things we shouldn't be paying for:

the Speaker’s military travel cost the Air Force $2,100,744.59 over a two-year period — $101,429.14 for in-flight expenses, including food and alcohol

If she had any kind of integrity, she'd be paying that out of her own pocket. Not only can her family fortune easily afford it, but it's not an exorbitant sum for a private individual used to VIP travel. As stated many times before, unless you're a DoD official, intelligence officer, or high-ranking member of the executive branch, there is no need for this kind of taxpayer-funded travel.

The average cost of an international congressional delegation (CODEL) is $228,563.33. Of the 103 Pelosi-led CODELs, 31 trips included members of the House Speaker’s family.

For a 60-something woman this makes me think the grandkids are getting a taxpayer-funded trip to interesting spots around the world. Buy them tickets to join the trip on your own dime!!

One CODEL traveling from Washington, D.C. through Tel Aviv, Israel to Baghdad, Iraq from May 15-20, 2008, “to discuss matters of mutual concern with government leaders” included members of Congress and their spouses and cost $17,931 per hour in aircraft alone. Purchases for the CODEL included: Johnny Walker Red scotch, Grey Goose vodka, E&J brandy, Bailey’s Irish Crème, Maker’s Mark whiskey, Courvoisier cognac, Bacardi Light rum, Jim Beam whiskey, Beefeater gin, Dewars scotch, Bombay Sapphire gin, Jack Daniels whiskey, Corona beer and several bottles of wine.

You can get all that stuff on a UA charter. She's not even supporting her home district since I don't see any Anchor Steam, Skyy vodka, or any other San Francisco-made liquor products on that list. So much for representation!

http://www.judicialwatch.org/weeklyupdate/2010/04-pelosi-party-planes

Pelosi's the easiest target since she's been the subject of so many FOIA requests but there's more of them doing it. It doesn't matter what party you claim membership in, this crap is plain wrong! I've been a member of Taxpayers for Common Sense for four years now - if enough people stand up to this idiocy it will finally stop.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:33 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Pelosi's the easiest target since she's been the subject of so many FOIA requests but there's more of them doing it. It doesn't matter what party you claim membership in, this crap is plain wrong!

It would be nice if more people realized this instead of turning everything into a partisan bitchfest. That said, this thread will likely turn into one so I shall make my exit at this point...
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:40 pm

Third in line from the presidency...
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Mudboy
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:43 pm

Just raise our taxes so we can pay for it, because we can afford it, can't we?  white 
 
Flighty
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:10 pm

Not that big of a deal. The top of each branch of government ought to have fairly good catering. I don't see where this became improper. Yes Nancy takes trips. Yes she really does have enough rank to do it. Yes she is third in line, and first in the Legislative branch, more or less. Should the Supreme Court not have catering either? Obviously they do have. So does every govt branch down about 600 levels below Nancy. Let her drink the good stuff, IMHO. If her family drinks it, so be it. Compared to Obama, this is nothing.
 
us330
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:26 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
If she had any kind of integrity, she'd be paying that out of her own pocket. Not only can her family fortune easily afford it, but it's not an exorbitant sum for a private individual used to VIP travel

Exactly--her family is independently wealthy, and if she had any sense of common decency, she would be paying for this stuff out of pocket. If Obama is looking for things to cut, I'd suggest stuff like this.

At minimum, it shows that she is incredibly out of touch with the rest of the country that has forced to cut back because of the recession.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:26 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
I don't see where this became improper

So people should be able to shuttle their grandkids to and from Israel for the hell of it, on USAF VIP aircraft, when they can well pay for it on their own? Totally illogical.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
Should the Supreme Court not have catering either? Obviously they do have. So does every govt branch down about 600 levels below Nancy.

This is not federal office catering. These are catered VIP flights operated by the federal government 100% at taxpayer expense - big difference. And we're not talking about hardworking bureaucrats here (they more than deserve good catering and thankfully do get it in their cafeterias from what I've experienced) - we're talking about a member of Congress, which you should essentially regard as talking and wearing boring suits for a living.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 2):
Third in line from the presidency...

...but not the President, in any way shape or form. I don't see the relevance.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
Let her drink the good stuff, IMHO

Johnny Walker? Jim Beam?? Maker's Mark??? Not anything close to the good stuff - I'm nowhere near the seven figure bank account bracket and buy liquor a fair bit above those.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:08 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
It doesn't matter what party you claim membership in, this crap is plain wrong!



My sentiments exactly.

Fortunately she is a member of the house of representatives and is voted to her position as a representative of the majority of that constituency.
You can extrapolate that her behavior is acceptable to the value and beliefs of a majority of her constituency otherwise, she would not continue to be re-elected or be recalled.

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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:10 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
So people should be able to shuttle their grandkids to and from Israel for the hell of it, on USAF VIP aircraft, when they can well pay for it on their own? Totally illogical.

This is what I have the biggest problem with, by far. Even if she couldn't pay for tickets to Israel for her grandkids, tough shit. USAF VIP aircraft should be used only by politicians and military officials on government business, full stop.
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Flighty
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:50 pm

Still, I agree with you guys on one hand, but Pelosi is still #3. Should she fly commercial, well she can't because of her rank. If she wishes to go to Israel, I am inclined to say she is powerful enough to snap her fingers and do it. That is what it means to have authority. You set the agenda and recieve support and protection. Who knows, maybe she was elected and lawfully installed in her position. Or maybe she is just some yahoo. you be the judge.
 
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:17 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
Should she fly commercial, well she can't because of her rank. If she wishes to go to Israel, I am inclined to say she is powerful enough to snap her fingers and do it. That is what it means to have authority.

You just contradicted yourself. If she can do whatever she wants, then she can surely put her $25 million net worth to good use and book all of the first class section on LY, privilege and USAF frills be damned. That is what it means to have authority!
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:07 pm

I would not worry about the overseas trips.

What I would like to see the cost involved in with her near weekly D.C. - California commutes especially since she refused to take the USAF Gulfstream that was assigned and had White House pressure to provide her the USAF 737 and occasional 757 instead in order to avoid the required fuel stop enroute on the Gulfstream which she would not put up with.
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seb146
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:16 pm

And the right does the exact same thing. Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is. It happens on both sides, but when large numbers of people go around with blinders on, the only thing that is important is their guys are not doing it. Anyone see the article about Palin running out and spending without a care in the world during the presidential campaign all the while telling the world "I am a working mother just like you!"? The right does it too, so don't get your knickers in a twist. We all know you hate the left.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:55 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):

the Speaker’s military travel cost the Air Force $2,100,744.59 over a two-year period — $101,429.14 for in-flight expenses, including food and alcohol

I'm sure Pelosi is not the only head of state, or politician or rep of the gov't, whatever you'd like to like them, to use this many expenses within the last 20 years.

If you want to make a big deal out of this, what about the POTUS? Why is it when he's traveling, he has not only a decoy aircraft, but numerous other military aircraft that fly in everything from food to fuel. I understand the need for safety, but you can imagine the massive amount of money it takes for the US gov't to fly the POTUS somwhere.

Pelosi should be extended the same amount of courtesies extended to other heads of states, but if she is going overboard with her expenditures, then she should absolutely pay out of her own pocket.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:58 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
And the right does the exact same thing. Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is.

Here is an example of how clueless you are. To label Aaron747 right along with the other right-wingers on this forum that you bash on so much is just laughable. I'm a right-winger who has agreed and disagreed with Aaron747 on numerous issues throughout the years. His opinion is one I respect and weigh more because he sees through most bias and is willing to call out garbage on both sides when he sees it.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Anyone see the article about Palin running out and spending without a care in the world during the presidential campaign all the while telling the world "I am a working mother just like you!"?

Was Palin doing it with Federal Tax Dollars or campaign contributions? There's a bit of a huge difference.

I don't see a problem with her using USAF aircraft if the travel is related to business but if she's going home for the holidays, I don't see why she can't take a UA flight from IAD to SFO at her own expense.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 8):
USAF VIP aircraft should be used only by politicians and military officials on government business, full stop.

If an official is already going overseas on a USAF plane for business and there is "Space Available" for the family to come along, I don't have a problem with it. But any additional expenses should be paid out of pocket by the government official.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
We all know you hate the left.

And we all know you hate the right and that you are EXACTLY like the right-blow hards you detest so much. You're so blind that you're unaware of who lies where on the political spectrum around here and as soon as anyone disagrees with you, they're a "righty who only bashes the left and calls their bashing and opposition 'patriotic' if a Democrat is President but if a lefty objects when a Republican is President, than it's 'terrorism'." I think I've just summed up every post you've ever made.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
She's not even supporting her home district since I don't see any Anchor Steam, Skyy vodka, or any other San Francisco-made liquor products on that list. So much for representation!

Maybe the inflight meal is "Rice-a-roni - The San Francisco Treat".  rotfl  Although I'll give her props if she has Ghirardelli chocolate on the list.  yummy 
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:22 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Well now that the results have come out of a FOIA request on Speaker Pelosi's airborne activities aboard USAF flights over the last two years, the proof is, as they say, in the details. Although the totals are not large, it's this kind of graft that really gets under my skin - these people "representing" us don't pay their own way when they can and stiff us with the bill for all kinds of things we shouldn't be paying for:

Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:29 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
but if she's going home for the holidays, I don't see why she can't take a UA flight from IAD to SFO at her own expense.


This was brought up in 2007 after she became speaker, but on national security grounds as she is second in the presidential line of succession she is bared from travelling commercial.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:29 pm



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 16):
This was brought up in 2007 after she became speaker, but on national security grounds as she is second in the presidential line of succession she is bared from travelling commercial.

Is that true? (Serious question). I thought Nixon, while President, took a commercial flight during the gas crisis in the 1970s.

Here's what I found through snopes.com: Snopes
Following 9/11, President Bush ordered the Speaker of the House (3rd in Line for the Presidency) to travel on "secure government transportation" when "traveling on official business"

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

When on business, yes. But do they get to use the company's resources for personal leisure? Do they get to use the company's resources to pay for their family if they come along if it means additional cost? That policy varies from company to company.
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seb146
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:36 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
To label Aaron747 right along with the other right-wingers on this forum that you bash on so much is just laughable. I'm a right-winger who has agreed and disagreed with Aaron747 on numerous issues throughout the years. His opinion is one I respect and weigh more because he sees through most bias and is willing to call out garbage on both sides when he sees it.

I do not always agree with Aaron, but I do respect him much more than certain other republican supporters on this board. However, I was actually pointing out the chorus of "We hate the left because this is what they do" that always seems to come up whenever anyone with a (D) behind their name so much as coughs the wrong way.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
we all know you hate the right

So, I am bad because I point out the hypocracy of the right? This is why it is so hard to respect any republican supporter. They all seem to throw this line out whenever they are caught.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:35 am



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
However, I was actually pointing out the chorus of "We hate the left because this is what they do" that always seems to come up whenever anyone with a (D) behind their name so much as coughs the wrong way.

Yea, where's the BS Flag when you need one?  sarcastic 

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is.

So which is it? You just said that you respect Aaron, but then you said this post was only an attack on the left.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
hypocracy

What is "hypocracy"? I see you spell it "hypocracy" in every thread. The fact that you don't know how to spell it tells me that you probably don't know what it really means either.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
So, I am bad because I point out the hypocracy of the right?

Your posts are bad because again, you are as bad as the right wingers you (attempt to) call out. Your post accomplish nothing other than telling us that you hate Republicans and right-wing advocates as much as you claim they hate you because you're a liberal and nothing will change that.


As for "hypocracy" - how about an answer to this question.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Anyone see the article about Palin running out and spending without a care in the world during the presidential campaign all the while telling the world "I am a working mother just like you!"?

Was Palin doing it with Federal Tax Dollars or campaign contributions? There's a bit of a huge difference.

I don't see a problem with her using USAF aircraft if the travel is related to business but if she's going home for the holidays, I don't see why she can't take a UA flight from IAD to SFO at her own expense.

To the rest of A.net: any takers that he'll run from the question (again)?
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TheCommodore
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:49 am

Surly if the "system" in the US allows this to happen, then perhaps the system needs changing.

No good crying about it if NO law has been broken is there?

Pelosi has broken no law if the "system" allows then go for it in my book, I would too.

Change the system so running up expenses like this are no longer possible.

Its really VERY simple !!
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:00 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

 checkmark  IMHO, it's wasteful no matter how you look at it. Executives charge the company, politicians charge the taxpayer. Here in Salt Lake, the City's travel expenses are easily accessible and the amount of waste on travel alone is astounding. Millions of dollars in travel expenses are spent each year on various "conferences". I've been to some of these conferences, and I can tell you that, more often than not, they're not really relevant to anything the attendees do in their jobs.

P.S. And yes I know that I said that I was checking out of this thread so don't anyone bother bringing it up.  
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:09 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
Still, I agree with you guys on one hand, but Pelosi is still #3. Should she fly commercial, well she can't because of her rank



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
Following 9/11, President Bush ordered the Speaker of the House (3rd in Line for the Presidency) to travel on "secure government transportation" when "traveling on official business"

Correct. Prior to 9/11, the Speaker flew commercial. After 9/11, the Speaker was given access to a Gulfstream-sized 12-seater. Pelosi demanded to be upgraded to a 737.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
Let her drink the good stuff, IMHO

Johnny Walker? Jim Beam?? Maker's Mark??? Not anything close to the good stuff - I'm nowhere near the seven figure bank account bracket and buy liquor a fair bit above those.

We have a government in $13 trillion of debt, and spending some 50% more than it brings in. All government planes should be carrying nothing more than water.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:17 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Correct. Prior to 9/11, the Speaker flew commercial. After 9/11, the Speaker was given access to a Gulfstream-sized 12-seater. Pelosi demanded to be upgraded to a 737.

According to the Snopes article I posted, Pelosi wanted an aircraft that had enough range to fly from DC to California without having to stop and refuel. My feeling is, if she's on business and the time is valuable, okay. If she's on leisure, and has to use a smaller plane which will burn far less fuel, then she can stop somewhere between DC and California and wait a few minutes for the plane to gas up.


Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
We have a government in $13 trillion of debt, and spending some 50% more than it brings in. All government planes should be carrying nothing more than water.

I agree that booze should not be complimentary on government aircraft. No problem with pop and coffee, but free booze is pushing the limits of "wastefulness" there.
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Aaron747
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:31 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
Following 9/11, President Bush ordered the Speaker of the House (3rd in Line for the Presidency) to travel on "secure government transportation" when "traveling on official business"

I don't think shuttling grandkids around the globe constitutes "official business". If it's official business, no family should be coming along, period. That goes for everyone in Congress!!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
All government planes should be carrying nothing more than water.

Fully agree. They can eat table rolls and canned soup too. Nothing wrong with Campbell's chicken noodle.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 23):
Pelosi wanted an aircraft that had enough range to fly from DC to California without having to stop and refuel. My feeling is, if she's on business and the time is valuable, okay. If she's on leisure, and has to use a smaller plane which will burn far less fuel, then she can stop somewhere between DC and California and wait a few minutes for the plane to gas up.

If she doesn't want a fuel stop, there are plenty of choices from IAD. Anything else is plain abuse, I don't care what the last administration decided.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

Not always. In response to the economic crisis, many executives at firms in this country have been cut off from the corporate dole. Toyota executives must fly economy class and stay in modestly-priced business hotels - anything else comes out of their own pocket. They are also not permitted to accrue air miles on company business.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):
Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is. It happens on both sides, but when large numbers of people go around with blinders on, the only thing that is important is their guys are not doing it.

Um, what?? My original post stated clearly she's not the only one doing it. The fact that you can't condemn her willfull disregard of the public trust and abuse of position privilege says a lot.
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TheCol
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:35 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):

So people should be able to shuttle their grandkids to and from Israel for the hell of it, on USAF VIP aircraft, when they can well pay for it on their own? Totally illogical.

No, that's totally rediculous. Especially when they can afford to charter their own flights.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 12):

This was a non-partisan thread until you showed up. The posters before you agreed that the Republicans do it as well.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 14):
And we all know you hate the right and that you are EXACTLY like the right-blow hards you detest so much. You're so blind that you're unaware of who lies where on the political spectrum around here and as soon as anyone disagrees with you, they're a "righty who only bashes the left and calls their bashing and opposition 'patriotic' if a Democrat is President but if a lefty objects when a Republican is President, than it's 'terrorism'." I think I've just summed up every post you've ever made.

 checkmark 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

Not for personal use. I doubt most shareholders would approve. That being said,

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
That policy varies from company to company.

 checkmark 

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):
What is "hypocracy"? I see you spell it "hypocracy" in every thread. The fact that you don't know how to spell it tells me that you probably don't know what it really means either.

Dude, that's just low...
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:39 am



Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 22):
Correct. Prior to 9/11, the Speaker flew commercial. After 9/11, the Speaker was given access to a Gulfstream-sized 12-seater. Pelosi demanded to be upgraded to a 737.

I see we're trotting out that old, long-since debunked line again. She did not demand to be upgraded to a 737. The House Sergant-At-Arms, for security reasons, requested an aircraft that could make the flight to her district non-stop. She didn't request a larger aircraft, she didn't "demand" an upgrade - the change was made for security purposes. If Dennis Hastert had represented a district in California when he was Speaker, they may very well have done the same for him, but being from Illinois, the C-20 was able to make the trip non-stop.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:40 am



Quoting TheCol (Reply 25):
Not for personal use. I doubt most shareholders would approve.

Well...People can come up with really creative ways of making personal time count as company time. Not saying every exec does it, just that I'm sure it happens.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:45 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 24):
I don't think shuttling grandkids around the globe constitutes "official business". If it's official business, no family should be coming along, period. That goes for everyone in Congress!!

In all fairness, even the military extends this courtesy to dependents (family members of those in the military). A C-5 may be running a mission from Travis AFB to Hickam AFB. If seats are available ("Space-A"), then the military members and their family members can catch a seat on the plane. The pilot of the flight could even bring his own family if he wanted and space and mission requirements permitted. So for family members of those in Congress or in the Cabinet to be afforded the same courtesy on a "Space A" basis doesn't bother me, so long as all extra expenses are paid out of pocket by the government official for their family (extra hotel accommodations, meals, additional rental cars, etc.)

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 24):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

Not always. In response to the economic crisis, many executives at firms in this country have been cut off from the corporate dole. Toyota executives must fly economy class and stay in modestly-priced business hotels - anything else comes out of their own pocket. They are also not permitted to accrue air miles on company business.

Isn't this the same Congress that bitched hard-core at the CEOs of the "Big Three" auto companies when they all took separate private jets for their first meeting with Congress to discuss bail-out money? I think it is. And our government is in far greater debt than the auto companies.  scratchchin 
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:48 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 28):
Isn't this the same Congress that bitched hard-core at the CEOs of the "Big Three" auto companies when they all took separate private jets for their first meeting with Congress to discuss bail-out money? I think it is. And our government is in far greater debt than the auto companies.

If I've learned one thing in life, it's that people are very good at practicing the motto "do as I say, not as I do." I've seen this in pretty much every work environment I've ever been in. I've often had supervisors ban this or that then turn around and do exactly what they told us not to do.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:01 am



Quoting TheCol (Reply 25):
Dude, that's just low...

In some cases, sure. However it's directed at someone who often wants to talk about the intelligence level of those from the outside urban areas because they "blindly listen to and follow Rush Limbaugh", I don't think it's off base or low. I think it's "hypocrasy" at its finest.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:07 am



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 30):
In some cases, sure. However it's directed at someone who often wants to talk about the intelligence level of those from the outside urban areas because they "blindly listen to and follow Rush Limbaugh", I don't think it's off base or low. I think it's "hypocrasy" at its finest.

Please! I know plenty of idiots in urban areas who listen to Rush Limbaugh.    duck 
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:15 am



Quoting OA412 (Reply 31):
Please! I know plenty of idiots in urban areas who listen to Rush Limbaugh.

 rotfl  I'll give you props for that. Well played, sir.  highfive 
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:15 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):

Here's a way of thinking about it. Do top executives at companies get to fly and eat on the company's dime?

Meaningless comparison.

Executives at companies are spending the money earned by the company through productive enterprise. Members of congress are spending money extracted by force from productive taxpayers.

In addition, of course, if an executive at a private company uses a company plane for personal purposes going home for the holidays, for example), federal tax law requires that the value of the flight be declared as "imputed income."

To equate the use of private resources by an employee of a business with the abuse of public resources by government officials is ridiculous.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:13 am

Sorry but I don't get it.

I mean I find it abhorrent that Speaker Pelosi can spend this much money on food and drink, but at the same time I cant understand how the rules of Government allows this to happen.

Its no good slanging off at her about this, if the rules permit this you can't blame her, I would do the same. If its there for the taking why not.

Slang off at the Congressmen and women who police all these types of perks.

Its the Government that makes all the rules and sets the guidelines isn't it
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:22 am

I have no problem with the Speaker of the House (Democrat or Republican; Newt or Nancy) being transported to/from her home district on a military aircraft, and also when she is traveling on official business.

HOWEVER...$100,000 over 2 years is almost $140 per day, and I am certain she is not flying daily. The amount seems excessive. I am sure a very nice meal (and even alcohol) could be provided for much less.

Another concern is a report I read yesterday which contained numerous requests from Ms. Pelosi's office to transport her children and grandchildren on military aircraft without her. My feeling is that if they are going somewhere with her, that is not a problem, but to essentially charter military aircraft to fly her family around--without her--at the taxpayers' expense is a problem.

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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:44 am



Quoting SCCutler (Reply 33):

Meaningless comparison.

Not at all. Indeed, she is MORE important than they are.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 33):

Executives at companies are spending the money earned by the company through productive enterprise. Members of congress are spending money extracted by force from productive taxpayers.

Extracted by force? If you want anarchy and no government, move to Somalia. If you want to form a government, then you have to pay for that government.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 33):

In addition, of course, if an executive at a private company uses a company plane for personal purposes going home for the holidays, for example), federal tax law requires that the value of the flight be declared as "imputed income."

And it doesn't make much sense to tax the federal government, does it?

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 33):

To equate the use of private resources by an employee of a business with the abuse of public resources by government officials is ridiculous.

How is this an abuse of public resources? This is the Speaker of the House of Representatives, not some schlock from District Wherever serving East Bumblefrig that no one knows.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 34):

I mean I find it abhorrent that Speaker Pelosi can spend this much money on food and drink, but at the same time I cant understand how the rules of Government allows this to happen.

That's about $50,000 a year for all the flights, and includes all the crew, staff, other Members of Congress and legal guests on board. It adds up.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 28):

Isn't this the same Congress that bitched hard-core at the CEOs of the "Big Three" auto companies when they all took separate private jets for their first meeting with Congress to discuss bail-out money? I think it is. And our government is in far greater debt than the auto companies.

1) The auto companies are not the government. Indeed, two of them owe the government a ton of money.

2) The Speaker is one of the people mandated to fly on USAF aircraft all the time.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 25):

Not for personal use. I doubt most shareholders would approve. That being said,

This isn't necessarily personal use.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 24):

Not always. In response to the economic crisis, many executives at firms in this country have been cut off from the corporate dole. Toyota executives must fly economy class and stay in modestly-priced business hotels - anything else comes out of their own pocket. They are also not permitted to accrue air miles on company business.

The miles thing is stupid. Even WalMart lets their people keep their miles now. That said, the Speaker of the House is not some salary man at Toyota.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):

Is that true? (Serious question). I thought Nixon, while President, took a commercial flight during the gas crisis in the 1970s.

1) Do you know how he flew back? Yep, they had one of the 707s follow the DC-10, using even more fuel than if he had just flown.

2) He told the pilot of the DC-10 to slow down to save fuel (and to push his stupid 55 MPH speed limit). Sure enough, the pilot slowed down and burned more gas.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):

Following 9/11, President Bush ordered the Speaker of the House (3rd in Line for the Presidency) to travel on "secure government transportation" when "traveling on official business"

You do realize that traveling back to a Congressional District IS official business, right?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):

When on business, yes. But do they get to use the company's resources for personal leisure?

1) They don't necessarily have crackpots looking to shoot at them.

2) "Business" for the Speaker is pretty much an all the time thing.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:58 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
That said, the Speaker of the House is not some salary man at Toyota.

The comparison was yours not mine, and I specifically referred to Toyota executives - which means the President on down. If you're changing context that's well and good but I'm just staying within those bounds.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
2) "Business" for the Speaker is pretty much an all the time thing

Wonder how much business she gets done with grandkids running all over the airplane and hotel.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:49 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 37):

Wonder how much business she gets done with grandkids running all over the airplane and hotel.

Source? Incidentally, do the President's kids fly on AF1?  yes 

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 37):

The comparison was yours not mine

No, actually, you took it and used one unconfirmed example of a single company in the hardest hit industry outside construction/homes.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 37):
which means the President on down.

Source?
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:06 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Source? Incidentally, do the President's kids fly on AF1?

The quoted reference in post 1 cites 31 instances of flying with family members aboard. Given her age, number of grandchildren (7), and close-knit family, it's a reasonable inference.

As previously stated, AF1 is an entirely different thing. The President has had personal air transportation since 1943.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
Source?

I can provide sources in Japanese trade publications but other than that, the internal memoranda I have seen and executives I've met personally cannot be sourced here.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:55 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
1) The auto companies are not the government. Indeed, two of them owe the government a ton of money.

And last time I checked, our government owes a ton of money too - far more than the auto-companies - by factors that can be described using Powers of 10.


Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
1) Do you know how he flew back? Yep, they had one of the 707s follow the DC-10, using even more fuel than if he had just flown.

I was not aware of that but I also was not going for the "fuel savings argument". I was just making a statement about government officials using commercial transportation. Obviously the law was changed in the wake 9/11, which if you've noted, I have not objected to her using the plane when on official business or even bringing her family along when there is space available.

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 35):
I read yesterday which contained numerous requests from Ms. Pelosi's office to transport her children and grandchildren on military aircraft without her. My feeling is that if they are going somewhere with her, that is not a problem, but to essentially charter military aircraft to fly her family around--without her--at the taxpayers' expense is a problem.

 checkmark 
That's been my standpoint in the thread all along.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:07 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 24):
Um, what?? My original post stated clearly she's not the only one doing it. The fact that you can't condemn her willfull disregard of the public trust and abuse of position privilege says a lot.

I was, in my own wierd way (I thought) also pointing out the fact that both sides do it. However, since I said something, it turned partisan. I am sorry people misunderstood what I was saying. It really is wearing thin that people just troll for hours to find anything they can to point at the Dems and say "See? This is why they are evil!" It is like hearing the song "Wheels on the bus" for 18 hours non-stop.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:57 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 41):
However, since I said something, it turned partisan

You said something and it "turned" partisan? What?!?!? How can "Here is another right-wing attack to "prove" how "evil" the left is"," not be mistaken for being "partisan" to begin with? Really?

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 41):
It really is wearing thin that people just troll for hours to find anything they can to point at the Dems and say "See? This is why they are evil!" It is like hearing the song "Wheels on the bus" for 18 hours non-stop.

And reading posts like yours with "this is why it is so hard to respect any republican supporter" is any different? Especially when the first person to attach a left or right label in the thread was you?  sarcastic 
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:46 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):

I was not aware of that but I also was not going for the "fuel savings argument". I was just making a statement about government officials using commercial transportation.

The DC-10 was a publicity stunt, it wasn't an indication of practical use. Indeed, government officials fly commercial all the time. Ted Kennedy flew the US Shuttle, in Y, and would only fly F if upgraded by the airline or by a GA or FA.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):

And last time I checked, our government owes a ton of money too - far more than the auto-companies - by factors that can be described using Powers of 10.

The difference is, the government can pay that money any time it wants.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 39):

The quoted reference in post 1 cites 31 instances of flying with family members aboard. Given her age, number of grandchildren (7), and close-knit family, it's a reasonable inference.

And? These are big planes. Even FlyDeltaJets87 agrees. Plus, I didn't even get started on the fact that your "source" is a right-wing propaganda site, and did not indicate how much Pelosi paid for herself, how many family members were included in those trips and how much of the money on food and drink was spent for Congressional delegations.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 39):

As previously stated, AF1 is an entirely different thing. The President has had personal air transportation since 1943.

So the Speaker of the House shouldn't? Especially considering it isn't really "personal" but more like a pool of available aircraft? Given that it is Congress that authorizes the spending on big, fancy airplanes for the President, that is treading on thin ice.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 40):
I have not objected to her using the plane when on official business or even bringing her family along when there is space available.

This, combined with your new stance on the gays and I think we might make a liberal (or at least a libertarian) out of you yet.  
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:00 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
This, combined with your new stance on the gays and I think we might make a liberal (or at least a libertarian) out of you yet.

I consider myself a conservative/borderline libertarian. I've been pro-gay marriage since joining A.net in August 2006 (it was just before joining A.net that my stance on the issue began to change, along with my stance DADT for the military, which I think should be abolished). On the current topic, the "Space A" privlege is extended to military personnel on military flights so I don't see why it can't be extended to Congress.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:50 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 44):
On the current topic, the "Space A" privlege is extended to military personnel on military flights so I don't see why it can't be extended to Congress.

Not to mention that we are talking about the Speaker of the House, who is indeed third in line for the presidency.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:10 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
Not to mention that we are talking about the Speaker of the House, who is indeed third in line for the presidency.

This is hardly relevant. That means if she is assassinated while the President is still living and in office, someone else will succeed her. Third in line doesn't count for much in most institutions other than laying in wait for promotion.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
Plus, I didn't even get started on the fact that your "source" is a right-wing propaganda site

Somehow I think if she actually paid her own way or otherwise reimbursed the government there'd be nothing for them to get on about. Who sourced it doesn't change the contents of the documents since they are available online via several sources.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:21 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Extracted by force? If you want anarchy and no government, move to Somalia. If you want to form a government, then you have to pay for that government.

No one challenges the importance of having government... but the government (and all who set policy) have a sworn duty to use its resources (all of which belong to the people) efficiently.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):


And it doesn't make much sense to tax the federal government, does it?

???

Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):

How is this an abuse of public resources? This is the Speaker of the House of Representatives, not some schlock from District Wherever serving East Bumblefrig that no one knows.

None of which provides the remotest support for inefficient and wasteful use of resources.

It certainly appears that you care not what she does, often the case for blindly-obedient supporters of Ms. Pelosi; my views on wasteful use of the peoples' resources applies without regard to which party claims the wastrel.

Perhaps, if you owned a business and dealt with the government on a nuts and bolts level, you'd see just how wasteful they can be. It's precisely the arrogance of superiority exemplified by reactions such as those above that mandates the vigorous oversigt, and checking, of practices like these.
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:52 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 46):
Third in line doesn't count for much in most institutions other than laying in wait for promotion.

We can go back and forth about this. Even mid-grade banking and hedge fund guys travel by jet. Pelosi leads one branch of the world's largest organization in money terms: the US government. She is the top architect of its laws. Her power and institutional importance are pretty vast.

In fact the organzation of the US govt has a 2011 budget of $3.8 trillion. Nearly four trillion dollars. Can other VIP jet users claim that? She is on top of a whole side of the US government.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 47):
It's precisely the arrogance of superiority exemplified by reactions such as those above that mandates the vigorous oversigt, and checking, of practices like these.

Totally agreed, generally speaking. But Pelosi's "arrogance" is not entirely unwarranted. Her office is a powerful one, inside the world's largest funded organization. For me to drink cognac on a VIP jet would be arrogance. But, I do not control the purse strings on trillions of dollars.
 
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RE: Speaker Pelosi's $101,400 Usaf Food & Bar Tab

Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:38 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 48):
Even mid-grade banking and hedge fund guys travel by jet.

Those folks are most often on highly time-sensitive missions that deliver tangible value to their stakeholders, so they should be using the most convenient possible means of getting the job done. Name me some missions performed by the House Speaker that have directly resulted in massive domestic policy change or negotiating breakthroughs with foreign powers.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 48):
Pelosi leads one branch of the world's largest organization in money terms: the US government. She is the top architect of its laws.

So what? If she misses a day or takes a bit longer getting to her destination, it will not logjam the entire Congressional process.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 48):
Her power and institutional importance are pretty vast.

Within the institution yes, generally speaking, I respectfully disagree. Her actual individual importance is vastly overstated. Her failure to deliver on an initiative will not cause thousands of job losses or generate tens of billions of dollars in stock and other losses like those you are comparing her to. This severely negates the necessity of having her travel this way - security is the only legitimate argument as far as I'm concerned.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 48):
In fact the organzation of the US govt has a 2011 budget of $3.8 trillion. Nearly four trillion dollars. Can other VIP jet users claim that?

What is this, penis sizes?? The size of the operating budget is irrelevant - it's the tangible impact and results that count. Her power and exercise of that budget are limited by both the political and practical constraints of day to day legislative process. Think of her as the top cog in the wheel and little else. She simply can't deliver anything on the level that a high-level private executive can. If she were occupying 1600 Pennsylvania, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but even that position is less influential than it once was.
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