jcs17
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Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:02 pm

Mmm mmm mmm....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100201/bs_nm/us_budget_backdoortaxes

Backdoor Taxes To Hit Middle Class

Quote:
NEW YORK (Reuters.com) --The Obama administration's plan to cut more than $1 trillion from the deficit over the next decade relies heavily on so-called backdoor tax increases that will result in a bigger tax bill for middle-class families.
In the 2010 budget tabled by President Barack Obama on Monday, the White House wants to let billions of dollars in tax breaks expire by the end of the year -- effectively a tax hike by stealth.
While the administration is focusing its proposal on eliminating tax breaks for individuals who earn $250,000 a year or more, middle-class families will face a slew of these backdoor increases.
The targeted tax provisions were enacted under the Bush administration's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. Among other things, the law lowered individual tax rates, slashed taxes on capital gains and dividends, and steadily scaled back the estate tax to zero in 2010.
If the provisions are allowed to expire on December 31, the top-tier personal income tax rate will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent. But lower-income families will pay more as well: the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28 percent; the 28 percent bracket will increase to 31 percent; and the 33 percent bracket will increase to 36 percent. The special 10 percent bracket is eliminated.
Investors will pay more on their earnings next year as well, with the tax on dividends jumping to 39.6 percent from 15 percent and the capital-gains tax increasing to 20 percent from 15 percent. The estate tax is eliminated this year, but it will return in 2011 -- though there has been talk about reinstating the death tax sooner.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-to-tax-break-for-the-middle-class

President Obama’s budget seeks an end to tax break for the middle class

Quote:
Grappling to contain record deficits, President Barack Obama is seeking to end a middle-class tax break he once said would be permanent.

That’s a switch from last year, when Obama’s budget called for making the tax credit permanent.
The cut costs the federal government about $63 billion in annual revenue while putting up to $400 in the pockets of workers making less than $95,000. It was approved for the first time in last year’s $787 billion stimulus package.

An administration official said the tax credit reflects changing realities in Congress on climate change legislation.

The tax initially was intended to compensate middle-class families for increased energy costs related to a cap-and-trade mechanism that would have capped greenhouse gas emissions by businesses while setting up a system allowing emissions credits to be bought and sold, the official said. The credit was to be paid for by revenue from the cap-and-trade system.

Now that Congress is considering different ways of compensating middle-class families for higher energy costs related to a cap-and-trade bill, using the Making Work Pay credit is not necessary, the official suggested.

The 2010 budget said that with “families squeezed, this tax cut will put needed money in their pockets for them to make ends meet and cover the costs of necessities.”

The $3.8 trillion budget request rolled out by the White House on Monday would renew the Making Work Pay tax credit for fiscal 2011, but then would have it sunset.

Oh how I love the Barack Obama administration, it's like a bad joke that just keeps on giving. I know politicians aren't the most honest people on the world, but Obama is looking like a pathological liar, and at the very least, a master of nuance. At what point do the vast majority of Americans stop believing the words that are coming out of his mouth?

By the way, I also wonder how the permanent campaign led by David Axelrod and Rahm Emmanuel will respond to such charges that dare to challenge The Hero of The Working Class.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:06 pm

How nice. More taxes? We already have it bad...
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EA772LR
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:09 pm

I am not surprised by this. This idiot of a president has been lying to the American people telling us he "gave 95% of Americans a tax cut"...what an absolute lie. It is physically impossible for Obama to cut taxes with the amount he and his cronies are spending. With Obama's change of heart on now ending the tax cuts for the middle class, he has sealed the deal for his swift exit from the oval office in 2012.   I can't wait for liberals to start screaming "conservatives complain about the deficit, yet they don't want to pay more taxes"...my response is, how bout we SPEND LESS ON ENTITLEMENTS. What a concept.  
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
ATTart
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:09 pm

It, about time this happens, it is about time my family and I pay our share. Also, people making $250,000.00 or more is upper middle class or higher.
Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
 
jcs17
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:16 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 2):
I can't wait for liberals to start screaming "conservatives complain about the deficit, yet they don't want to pay more taxes"...my response is, how bout we SPEND LESS ON ENTITLEMENTS.

Not gonna happen in this presidency. As Judd Gregg said, "If you have a government in place with an inherent antipathy towards the market and capitalism, and I believe this government does, I wish it weren't true, but this is the government of community organizers. They believe in social justice." http://m.cnbc.com/us_news/35180618

Quoting ATTart (Reply 3):
It, about time this happens, it is about time my family and I pay our share. Also, people making $250,000.00 or more is upper middle class or higher.

Tell me you're joking.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
ATTart
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:18 pm



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 4):
Tell me you're joking.

No I am not....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class
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OA412
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:24 pm

Seems to me that taxes will be increasing for everybody, but keep on pretending that this is some huge swipe against the Middle Class and yet another defeat for the Obama administration. And remind us, how exactly is an increase of 3% equivalent to a "big take hike".
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
ATTart
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:25 pm

National Pay Averages of Surprising Middle-Class Jobs
Job State Average Pay Top Earners’ Pay
Plumber Ohio $47,500.00 $81,700.00
Plumber Florida $54,800.00 $111,900.00
Plumber Colorado $54,900.00 $94,200.00
Registered Nurse Ohio $60,200.00 $78,200.00
Registered Nurse Florida $62,800.00 $87,200.00
Registered Nurse Colorado $68,900.00 $90,200.00
Certified Public Accountant (CPA) Ohio $69,700.00 $122,600.00
Certified Public Accountant Florida $76,900.00 $138,200.00
Certified Public Accountant Colorado $67,600.00 $134,300.00
Mechanical Engineer Ohio $78,800.00 $111,100.00
Mechanical Engineer Florida $82,000.00 $110,100.00
Mechanical Engineer Colorado $89,400.00 $125,100.00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So, who are the people who make up the upper class -- those earning $250,000 or more annually? Here is just a sampling:

National Pay Averages of Surprising Middle-Class Jobs
Job Average Pay Top Earners’ Pay
Chief Executive Officer (CEO)* $251,100.00 $576,500.00
Accounting Firm Partner++ $267,600.00 $457,700.00
Cardiologist $270,500.00 $429,700.00
Surgeon (all types) $298,600.00 $574,200.00
* at a company with approximately 500 employees ++ at 50 or more partners in firm
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:28 pm



Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
More taxes? We already have it bad...

No kidding. I'd still like to know why those of us living and working overseas are taxed at fully regular rates if making over $82,000.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:33 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 2):
my response is, how bout we SPEND LESS ON ENTITLEMENTS. What a concept.

It would be nice, but neither side is willing to do it. The conservatives will scream about deficits, but as soon as they are in power, the spending and deficits will continue.
 
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OA412
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:37 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
No kidding. I'd still like to know why those of us living and working overseas are taxed at fully regular rates if making over $82,000.

That is one area of taxation that I agree is incredibly stupid. IIRC only the US and one other country (though I can't remember which one) force their citizens living overseas to pay income tax to both the country in which they live and to their country of citizenship. If you're not living in the US, you shouldn't have to pay US income tax, simple as that.
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ATTart
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:37 pm

Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
 
windy95
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:43 pm



Quoting ATTart (Reply 3):
It, about time this happens, it is about time my family and I pay our share. Also, people making $250,000.00 or more is upper middle class or higher.

You do not have to wait for the government to tell you. You could send in extra money to the government anytime you want. What are you waiting for?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:43 pm

"We are going to have the debates televised on CSPAN"

Need I say more?

This guy will say anything, and does. Be patient his time is coming.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
EA772LR
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:53 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9):
It would be nice, but neither side is willing to do it. The conservatives will scream about deficits, but as soon as they are in power, the spending and deficits will continue.

Sure, but not true conservatives, but I'm not sure those exist in politics anymore.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
I'd still like to know why those of us living and working overseas are taxed at fully regular rates if making over $82,000.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 6):
but keep on pretending that this is some huge swipe against the Middle Class and yet another defeat for the Obama administration. And remind us, how exactly is an increase of 3% equivalent to a "big take hike".



Quoting ATTart (Reply 3):
It, about time this happens, it is about time my family and I pay our share. Also, people making $250,000.00 or more is upper middle class or higher.

Fine, if you two have no problem paying even more in taxes, you pay my 3% more on $50,000.

On a side note, I wonder if America were split in two, a Conservative America and a Liberal America how long it would be before the Liberals went broke through taxation. Wasn't it the notorious Winston Churchill who famously said it best:

"Some see private enterprise as a predatory target to be shot, others as a cow to be milked, but few are those who see it as a sturdy horse pulling the wagon."

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

"We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
ATTart
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:54 pm

Quoting Windy95 (Reply 12):
You do not have to wait for the government to tell you. You could send in extra money to the government anytime you want. What are you waiting for?

Well, my airline salary which is taxed I do donate to a charity.. This way I do know where my money it going for the most part. My other income I pay the taxes that is asked of me.

[Edited 2010-02-02 07:59:04]
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:57 pm

Can we go to the flat income tax rate or the national sales tax? Please?!?

Quoting ATTart (Reply 3):
It, about time this happens, it is about time my family and I pay our share.

Then what is stopping you from writing a bigger check to the IRS this April 15th and telling them to "Keep the Change"?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
No kidding. I'd still like to know why those of us living and working overseas are taxed at fully regular rates if making over $82,000.

Do you get the shaft twice and also have to pay taxes to Japan? Or how does their system work over there?
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D L X
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:59 pm

Only in the world of Republican demagoguery is the sunsetting of a tax credit a tax hike, let alone a "big" one.
 
EA772LR
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:59 pm



Quoting ATTart (Reply 15):
Well, my airline salary I do donate to a charity.. This way I do know where my money it going for the most part. My other income I pay the taxes that is asked of me.

Well not all of us in the Middle Class have the luxury of sending an entire income to donate, and many if not all of us in the Middle Class cannot pay more in taxes. Obama is doing his best to break the back of Middle Class so he can keep trying to push his socialist agenda on us. It ain't workin out so well! Last I checked, now the Republican in Illinois is 2 points up from the Democrat. The writing is on the Wall for the left.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
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OA412
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:04 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 14):
On a side note, I wonder if America were split in two, a Conservative America and a Liberal America how long it would be before the Liberals went broke through taxation.

Well those living in Western Europe have been paying higher taxes than us for years and I don't see where they've all gone broke as a result of taxation.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 14):
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

Except that increasing taxes isn't socialism.

Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
Only in the world of Republican demagoguery is the sunsetting of a tax credit a tax hike, let alone a "big" one.

 checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 18):
Obama is doing his best to break the back of Middle Class so he can keep trying to push his socialist agenda on us.

Ah yes, more "socialism" bogeyman nonsense. If you think that Obama is socialist, you don't know socialism.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
ATTart
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:04 pm

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 18):
Obama is doing his best to break the back of Middle Class so he can keep trying to push his socialist agenda on us.

Ok, what ever you say..... That is Obama's plan to do away with the middle class and make us a two class nation the upper and lower class...  banghead   banghead 

[Edited 2010-02-02 08:12:24]
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AGM100
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:07 pm

It has only one huge flaw in it .... " Spending to create jobs" . The ideology behind this theory is the reason we are in trouble. It is not the governments role to create jobs ! . The government is supposed to regulate , provide security and assure a fair system ... not to be the job generator in a command economy.

The president is about to be handed another huge political loss I am afraid . And it is his fault ... this was his chance to move back to the center ,show some solid cuts and make balancing a priority. Instead he turned left again ..and stuffed the budget full of government spending to do what the private sector is supposed to do.

Good luck to him and the democrats ....
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
EA772LR
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:15 pm



Quoting OA412 (Reply 19):

Well those living in Western Europe have been paying higher taxes than us for years and I don't see where they've all gone broke as a result of taxation.

Move to Western Europe then. Liberals seem to be so enamored with 'Europe'. Last I checked Europe's economies aren't in great shape either. England is broke, France is in trouble as is Spain, Portugal, etc.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 19):
Ah yes, more "socialism" bogeyman nonsense. If you think that Obama is socialist, you don't know socialism.

Keep putting your head in the sand. All evidence proves that his move to take over the banking, auto, energy, and health care industries is very socialist in nature. It's obvious that Obama loathes Capitalism. Why should he like it, he's never worked for anything, earned an honest dollar, or ran a business in his life. He went from community organizing to POTUS. His only answer to our problems is to spend more, more regulations, and more Federal oversight.

Quoting ATTart (Reply 20):
That is Obama's plan to do away with the middle class and make us a two class nation the upper and lower class...

Actually, we agree on something!  bigthumbsup  That is exactly what he'd like to do.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
ATTart
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:21 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
Actually, we agree on something! bigthumbsup That is exactly what he'd like to do.

 cheeky   crackup   devil 
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FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:24 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 14):
Sure, but not true conservatives, but I'm not sure those exist in politics anymore.

Exactly. Of course, many politicians also realize that if they actually tried to balance the budget, the cuts necessary to make it happen would enrage most of the population. Can you imagine the outrage if Obama came on air and said, "I'm going to balance the budget next year and in doing so lay-off ten million workers?"

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 21):
the job generator in a command economy.

In theory, you are correct. But what happens when the private sector (through a combination of outsourcing and technological innnovation) simply doesn't produce enough jobs relative to the population? And what happens in areas such as transportation and healthcare where the private sector simply won't work without government subsidy?
 
racko
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:29 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 8):
No kidding. I'd still like to know why those of us living and working overseas are taxed at fully regular rates if making over $82,000.

Wait a minute, you have to pay income tax twice if you're an american expat? So if you're earning well you're paying the US income tax AND the local income tax? Holy shit.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:29 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
Can we go to the flat income tax rate or the national sales tax? Please?!?

If only we listened to Forbes and elected him President, the man was a genius.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
Keep putting your head in the sand. All evidence proves that his move to take over the banking, auto, energy, and health care industries is very socialist in nature. It's obvious that Obama loathes Capitalism. Why should he like it, he's never worked for anything, earned an honest dollar, or ran a business in his life. He went from community organizing to POTUS. His only answer to our problems is to spend more, more regulations, and more Federal oversight

One of the best posts ever on this site.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
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OA412
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:35 pm

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
Move to Western Europe then.

Yeah you missed the entire point of my argument.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
All evidence proves that his move to take over the banking, auto, energy, and health care industries is very socialist in nature.

No it isn't.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
It's obvious that Obama loathes Capitalism.

It is?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
Why should he like it, he's never worked for anything, earned an honest dollar, or ran a business in his life.

You know this how? The money he earned from the University of Chicago was dirty? The money he earned as a civil rights attorney was dirty? Also, since when did running a business become a prerequisite to the presidency. Many of our successful presidents never ran a business before taking on the presidency. I don't see how that made them any less successful. Finally, how do you know that he didn't work for anything that he achieved?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
He went from community organizing to POTUS.

He did? And all those years he spent as a civil rights attorney and as a professor at the University of Chicago? Does that not count? Perhaps some of you on the right need to take a better look at Obama's actual biography rather than relying on talking points from demagogues.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
One of the best posts ever on this site.

Sure it is. You'd also be well served to actually learn a thing or two about Obama rather than allowing others to do your thinking for you.

[Edited 2010-02-02 08:37:14]
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EA772LR
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:46 pm



Quoting OA412 (Reply 27):
Yeah you missed the entire point of my argument.

No I think I got it. Every time a Conservative talks about socialism someone from the left chimes in with how successful Europe is...look at the stats. It ain't working out so well for them.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 27):
No it isn't.

Sure it is. The expansion of Federal government under Obama's watch is nothing short of a swift move to the far left that reeks of socialism.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 27):
It is?

Yeah. You can tell by his policies and his constant assault on the private sector. Can you name one thing he's done to improve the life of us small business owners? You know, the people who create the vast majority of jobs in the U.S. The government doesn't create job growth, and it was never in their job description to do so.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 27):
You know this how?

By his shady past and his overall attitude toward the Capitalist system.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
If only we listened to Forbes and elected him President, the man was a genius.

Actually my last name is Forbes. My full name is Zachary Austin Forbes   No lie. But unfortunately no relation.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
One of the best posts ever on this site.

Thanks man!  thumbsup  I enjoy many of yours.
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Arrow
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Com

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:49 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 19):
Ah yes, more "socialism" bogeyman nonsense. If you think that Obama is socialist, you don't know socialism.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
All evidence proves that his move to take over the banking, auto, energy, and health care industries is very socialist in nature. It's obvious that Obama loathes Capitalism.

You guys are on the verge of being ungovernable. The left-right split is so pronounced, and so even, that each side would rather do nothing than compromise for a general good. Take the California gridlock, multiply by 50, and that's US federal politics. You'd be better off with a dictator -- at least something would get done.

[Edited 2010-02-02 08:55:23]
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:54 pm



Quoting OA412 (Reply 27):
Sure it is. You'd also be well served to actually learn a thing or two about Obama rather than allowing others to do your thinking for you.

I have but I like to see people that you and the DNC discount speak as in this November and in November of 2012. Keep going like your going. It's going to be breathtaking.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
planespotting
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:05 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 13):
"We are going to have the debates televised on CSPAN"

They were. The healthcare debates in Congress were televised on C-SPAN, while the final negotiations (which are never televised) were done in private. It's certainly not the perfect situation (I'd love to see backroom negotiations televised too), but a statement like that cannot be an absolute - there's no way anyone could televise every single talk between a senator/congressman/staff/lobbyist/colleague/etc over the healthcare debate.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
All evidence proves that his move to take over the banking, auto, energy, and health care industries is very socialist in nature. It's obvious that Obama loathes Capitalism.

I want to see the smoking gun for socialism and his hatred of capitalism. You seem to have it somewhere. So please provide this evidence.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
Why should he like it, he's never worked for anything, earned an honest dollar, or ran a business in his life. He went from community organizing to POTUS. His only answer to our problems is to spend more, more regulations, and more Federal oversight.

Not sure what your definition of working for something or earning an honest dollar entails, but if you mean he never owned or operated a business *successfully outside of politics, than many other presidents share this trait:

George W. Bush (successful being the key word)
Bill Clinton
Ronald Reagan
Gerald Ford
Lyndon Johnson
John Kennedy
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Harry Truman
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 24):
Exactly. Of course, many politicians also realize that if they actually tried to balance the budget, the cuts necessary to make it happen would enrage most of the population. Can you imagine the outrage if Obama came on air and said, "I'm going to balance the budget next year and in doing so lay-off ten million workers?"

That's the same thing that would happen if you abolished the income tax and went to some kind of consumption tax. The IRS would be disbanded, along with hundreds of thousands of jobs - and that's not even considering the entire accounting industry as we know it.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 26):
If only we listened to Forbes and elected him President, the man was a genius

Wow.

His runs at the presidency were entirely predicated on saving himself and his family literally billions of dollars in taxes.
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:14 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
Do you get the shaft twice and also have to pay taxes to Japan? Or how does their system work over there?

Well I intentionally keep myself under to avoid the shaft though I could easily go over if I picked up extra work. The Japanese tax rate for my income is pretty reasonable at a flat 20% - most of which is collected by the city in which you live rather than the national government, which mostly hits large corporations. In return our kids get completely free health care until age 12 so it's not a raw deal at all.

Quoting Racko (Reply 25):

Wait a minute, you have to pay income tax twice if you're an american expat? So if you're earning well you're paying the US income tax AND the local income tax? Holy shit.

Yes, if you go over the threshold you have to pay. There are ways around it but they are complicated and involve additional expense later. You can file an exclusion for deducting foreign housing expenses but it doesn't reduce the tax hit fully. When my father was still employed as an executive for a large US software firm in BKK, he was paying at a 27% tax rate to the Thais and 36% to the US despite not having lived in the states for over six years. Fortunately now he is self-employed while still overseas and thus free of the burden!

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
It's obvious that Obama loathes Capitalism

Impossible given that he continues to collect book royalties and invested considerable sums from the advances on his second book.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 29):
You guys are on the verge of being ungovernable

On the verge? Try clinging to a handhold halfway down the side of a chasm!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AGM100
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:16 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 24):
And what happens in areas such as transportation and healthcare where the private sector simply won't work without government subsidy?



Simply put ...we live without them or learn to live with less. I know its hard to imagine ... but the cycle of spending has got to stop either by choice or we will sink into financial devastation ( is going to happen anyway). We are going to have to make sacrifices .. like the president said. I just do not believe that he understands what that means. We take in 2.5 trillion and spend 3.8 trillion .... and the income level is trending lower ( tax receipts) .

All of this is a irrelevant discussion anyway .... the balance is so far over the the edge that we will never change . We may as well just pay 100% tax ..and rent houses and cars from the government. I looked at a chart last night that shows our government has spent us into the red by 65 trillion dollars since 1970.....$65 trillion! in yearly budget deficits . We are going down ...it is written in stone at this point. And its not President Obama's fault!! ... he is just a tool in the hands of our enemies who want to kill our free-market system... like presidents before him.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
futurepilot16
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:35 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 18):
Obama is doing his best to break the back of Middle Class so he can keep trying to push his socialist agenda on us.

That quote is no better than something said by the same people who thinks that 9/11 was an inside job. "Get yer' tinfoil hats, there's a conspiracy brewing"
"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:38 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
Simply put ...we live without them or learn to live with less.

But without a good transportation network and healthcare system, our economy will slowly collapse anyway.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
he is just a tool in the hands of our enemies who want to kill our free-market system... like presidents before him.

Who exactly are these enemies? I don't see that much foreign influence on our budget. If anything, it is those free-market enterprises (i.e. Corporate America) that have aggressively pushed for government spending.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
We are going down ...it is written in stone at this point.

I don't think it's quite that bad. I suspect much of the debt can (and will) be defaulted on. It's not an idea I like, but it can be done. I think China already knows they aren't getting a lot of the money back.
 
Arrow
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:42 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 32):
Fortunately now he is self-employed while still overseas and thus free of the burden!

But as an American citizen, he still has to file an annual return to the IRS, right? As well as comply with whatever tax filing requirements exist in his country of residence?

It has always puzzled me that Americans, arguably the world's most anti-government folks (philosophically-speaking), would accept that extra-territorial reach by the IRS that lasts from cradle to grave (and beyond through estate rules) and applies to the four corners of the globe. My wife is a former American (a Canadian citizen now for 40 years) and she absolutely refuses to pay tribute to the IRS, or file the paperwork, on a point of principle. And she can't "renounce," the state department won't let her if it's for tax purposes.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
D L X
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:45 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 2):
This idiot of a president has been lying to the American people telling us he "gave 95% of Americans a tax cut"...what an absolute lie.

You can't both complain that giving 95% of the people tax credits of various forms is not a tax cut, and then at the same time say that sunsetting some of those credits is a "big" tax hike.

So, which is it? Are you coming or going?
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:45 pm



Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
We already have it bad...

Oh boohoo try paying 47% tax you haven't got anything to complain about. You guys are under taxed and live in a (fairly) low cost country.
 
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OA412
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:46 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 30):
I have

You clearly haven't if you think that that was one of the best quotes ever written on this site. That, or you've decided to block out large parts of what you read.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Arrow
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:51 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 35):
I don't think it's quite that bad. I suspect much of the debt can (and will) be defaulted on.

You're not serious, are you? Do you really want the IMF, World Bank, etc. to start running your financial affairs? Do you think a US dollar plunge of 50% or more would be a good thing? Do you think the US economy would escape from that unscathed and prosperous?

Think China would cut you some slack on that? Right now, you've got a good symbiotic relationship with Asian lenders -- they don't want you to fail because it hurts them as much as you, maybe more. Default on that debt, and all bets are off. You think you've got problems now, that would do you in for good.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
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OA412
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:52 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 28):
No I think I got it. Every time a Conservative talks about socialism someone from the left chimes in with how successful Europe is...look at the stats. It ain't working out so well for them.

Then answer my question. Are the people of Europe themselves broke as a direct result of higher taxation?

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 28):
Sure it is. The expansion of Federal government under Obama's watch is nothing short of a swift move to the far left that reeks of socialism.

No it's not. Neither of the major parties in this country is representative of the far left. The Democratic Party is more akin to the center-right parties found in other Western countries.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 28):
By his shady past and his overall attitude toward the Capitalist system.

What shady past is that? The shady past fabricated by people like Limbaugh? Or the birthers? Maybe the one fabricated by the teabaggers?

And what is this overall attitude toward the Capitalist system? Seems to me that Obama has done quite well for himself as a direct result of the Capitalist system.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:57 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 40):
Do you think the US economy would escape from that unscathed and prosperous?

Of course not. It would be painful no doubt, but faced with a debt that is impossible to repay, it might be the only way.
 
AGM100
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:58 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 35):
Who exactly are these enemies?



I don't mean to imply enemies like that ... my fault for lack of a better term. I just see a slow encroachment of public control and spending over our free-market system. In all reality , the effort is done in the name of social improvement ... that is what makes it so hard to vote against for our politicians. I am wise enough to know that the programs of the left have of course done some good for our country ... but the down side is that they just grow and grow until it is unbalanced. That is the problem with empowering our politicians to improve our lives at every level ...they just never say no and will spend everything.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 35):
But without a good transportation network and healthcare system, our economy will slowly collapse anyway



We have a very good transportation system arguably the best in the world when you consider the scale ... and we should spend on this I don't have a problem with it.

SO what about my idea that we just all work for the government and take each unto his needs ? If the left is correct that government is the best way to balance the system ... why not just go all the way ? Really ? why fight about it ?... the truth is that their would not be any federal budget without we the earners in the country ... and they want to take more power out of that sector . So why not just be honest and go all the way ?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Arrow
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:07 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 42):
Of course not. It would be painful no doubt, but faced with a debt that is impossible to repay, it might be the only way.

The US debt is not impossible to repay. The US is still the richest country in the world by almost every measuring stick -- at least for now. You are not Argentina or Mexico. You might have to swallow higher taxes, pull in your far-flung military and stop the wars, and cut spending on a whole bunch of domestic stuff that will hurt -- but it can be done. Your problem is complete lack of political will to do any of it, exacerbated by two warring factions, left and right, that virtually guarantee you'll never develop the political will. We're all wondering what it's going to take to change that; the prospects are pretty scary.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
seb146
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:11 pm



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
It's obvious that Obama loathes Capitalism.

How? Did he let the banks collapse? Did he let GM and Chrysler collapse? If he truly hates capitalism, as the right believes, he would have let all of that fall away.

I don't understand what the big deal is with tax hikes, anyway. After years and years of borrowing and spending and low, low taxes, we have to pay the piper and keep ourselves afloat. Oh, the horror of doing what we are obligated to do instead of living off the backs of everyone else.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
AGM100
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:15 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 44):
Your problem is complete lack of political will to do any of it, exacerbated by two warring factions, left and right, that virtually guarantee you'll never develop the political will. We're all wondering what it's going to take to change that; the prospects are pretty scary.



That is a huge problem ... but on the flip side frankly our debt has been created by both sides of our political spectrum. So ..we are left flailing at phantoms ... who is right ? who is wrong ? , left or right . It is chaos and is the true reason we will not recover from it. Our system is flawed like every other system that requires human involvement ... our ability to come together is impossible sadly. We are broke ...and we dont even know it...that is the worst kind of broken .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:18 pm



Quoting Arrow (Reply 36):
But as an American citizen, he still has to file an annual return to the IRS, right? As well as comply with whatever tax filing requirements exist in his country of residence?

To file, or not to file, that is the question. Since he doesn't own property or possess bank accounts in the US any longer, I can only assume he's not filing.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 45):
How? Did he let the banks collapse? Did he let GM and Chrysler collapse? If he truly hates capitalism, as the right believes, he would have let all of that fall away.

This is incorrect equivocation. A true supporter of capitalism would have let bad banks fail and weak automakers collapse. I don't believe Obama hates capitalism, but he doesn't understand it very well at all, and his policies weaken it substantially.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mt99
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:23 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 47):
This is incorrect equivocation. A true supporter of capitalism would have let bad banks fail and weak automakers collapse. I don't believe Obama hates capitalism, but he doesn't understand it very well at all, and his policies weaken it substantially.

I think that no government can adhere to "true" capitalism. Would we have roads? schools? parks? wars? an army?
Step into my office, baby
 
jcs17
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RE: Obama's Budget: Big Middle Class Tax Hikes Coming!

Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:23 pm



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 45):
How? Did he let the banks collapse? Did he let GM and Chrysler collapse? If he truly hates capitalism, as the right believes, he would have let all of that fall away.

Huh? What are you talking about? A real capitalist would've allowed those companies to fail instead of making them reliant on state aid.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 45):
I don't understand what the big deal is with tax hikes, anyway. After years and years of borrowing and spending and low, low taxes, we have to pay the piper and keep ourselves afloat. Oh, the horror of doing what we are obligated to do instead of living off the backs of everyone else.

How about cutting government instead? A wild notion, but doesn't it make more sense to try to cut government spending before raising taxes? Do we really need to keep creating new jobs at government salaries at the Dept. of Agriculture? Why are we (the taxpayer) funding an inept and bloated postal system?
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!

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