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Mortyman
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U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:08 pm

U.S. soldier 'waterboarded his own daughter, 4, because she couldn't recite alphabet'

Read more:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...phabet.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0extabLNA


What the hell was he thinking of ??!
 
Cadet57
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:17 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
What the hell was he thinking of ??!

Sounds like alot of mental health issues. Which is a serious problem with some guys coming home.
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OA260
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:51 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
Sounds like alot of mental health issues. Which is a serious problem with some guys coming home.

Very true , this guy sounds like he needs to be taken away from his family and some kind of rehab for his own good and his families.
 
Scorpio
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:05 pm

What's the problem? Waterboarding's not torture, right?  
 
Cadet57
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:05 pm

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 3):
What's the problem? Waterboarding's not torture, right?

Took about as long as I thought it should...
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LTU932
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:09 pm

Sounds like the guy is a Section 8, and needs to be waterboarded himself.
 
Cadet57
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:24 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 5):
Sounds like the guy is a Section 8, and needs to be waterboarded himself.

Yep. Thats the answer. Torture someone who has mental health problems from fighting for his country. Really dude?
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MoltenRock
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:06 pm

Any update on if the little girl can now recite the alphabet?  

Is it really any surprise? When you justify torture at every opportunity, and prescribe it for anyone arrested for anything remotely linked to or could be linked to "terror" as Republicans did, and force troops to carry this practice out on others, those who use and practice such become animals themselves.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:11 pm

My 4 year old can count to 20 in two languages, but as for the alphabet he sucks, but I sure as hell won't be waterboarding him, the wife wouldn't stand for crap like that.
 
Cadet57
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:14 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 8):
My 4 year old can count to 20 in two languages, but as for the alphabet he sucks, but I sure as hell won't be waterboarding him, the wife wouldn't stand for crap like that.

I cant help but   
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:59 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 8):
My 4 year old can count to 20 in two languages, but as for the alphabet he sucks, but I sure as hell won't be waterboarding him, the wife wouldn't stand for crap like that.

*sigh* don't you know ANYTHING about child development? Waterboarding isn't torture, so it's not motivating enough. You have to use REAL torture to get your kid to say the alphabet. I recommend lit cigarettes between the fingers, first.

  

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 7):

Is it really any surprise? When you justify torture at every opportunity, and prescribe it for anyone arrested for anything remotely linked to or could be linked to "terror" as Republicans did, and force troops to carry this practice out on others, those who use and practice such become animals themselves.

   Couldn't have said it any better..
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Marcus
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:05 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 6):
Yep. Thats the answer. Torture someone who has mental health problems from fighting for his country. Really dude?

Naaaaa....just throw him in jail
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Cadet57
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:16 pm

Quoting Marcus (Reply 11):
Naaaaa....just throw him in jail

So thats what you suggest you do with our ill vets? Throw them in jail? Christ even after Vietnam we didn't do that.
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Marcus
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:22 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 12):
So thats what you suggest you do with our ill vets? Throw them in jail? Christ even after Vietnam we didn't do that.

If he committed a crime he should pay......unless he gets a good lawyer and is able to prove temporary insanity
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
mham001
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:47 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 7):

Is it really any surprise? When you justify torture at every opportunity, and prescribe it for anyone arrested for anything remotely linked to or could be linked to "terror" as Republicans did, and force troops to carry this practice out on others, those who use and practice such become animals themselves.

Uhh, waterboarding was being used long before the "war on terror". If one really wanted to place blame, maybe those who screamed about it and put it front page in the media should get some of it.

Anyway, my daughter can identify every letter at the age of 2. Electricity is much more motivating.

[Edited 2010-02-08 14:48:45]
 
tbar220
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:10 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
*sigh* don't you know ANYTHING about child development? Waterboarding isn't torture, so it's not motivating enough. You have to use REAL torture to get your kid to say the alphabet. I recommend lit cigarettes between the fingers, first.

Follow that with a shot of vodka.... for the four year old.

((just kidding folks, I don't condone the torture of children, only my own))
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TheCommodore
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:29 pm

Ever heard of Guantanamo Bay


Send him there...... forever !
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Flighty
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:30 pm

What's next, using an aerial drone to mug somebody? Sadly, I wish I were kidding.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:32 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 7):
Is it really any surprise? When you justify torture at every opportunity, and prescribe it for anyone arrested for anything remotely linked to or could be linked to "terror" as Republicans did, and force troops to carry this practice out on others, those who use and practice such become animals themselves.

Nice throwing politics into this.

This guy may have PTSD and all, but don't forget, when the military is millions of people big, you'll have stuff like this happen eventually. Has nothing to do with Republicans/Democrats.
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
johnboy
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:21 am

Jesus F'ing Christ.......how bad must the mother have been if they gave custody to this walking time bomb?
 
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:11 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
This guy may have PTSD and all, but don't forget, when the military is millions of people big, you'll have stuff like this happen eventually. Has nothing to do with Republicans/Democrats.

Yes and no. On the one hand, I certainly wouldn't say that this incident reflects on the soldier's personal political leanings. On the other, I doubt that this individual came up with the idea of waterboarding all on his own. Certain government officials over the past several years--most of them Republicans--have tried to normalize waterboarding, and that effort may have contributed to this man's actions (regardless of his personal politics).
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TheCommodore
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:11 am

Quoting johnboy (Reply 19):
Jesus F'ing Christ.......how bad must the mother have been if they gave custody to this walking time bomb?


There are some people out there who should NEVER have been allowed to have children, EVER !!

And unfortunately were surrounded by them.   

[Edited 2010-02-08 17:20:52]
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:11 pm

He put her head in a bowl of water. That's not waterboarding in my book.
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Mortyman
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:15 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 22):
He put her head in a bowl of water. That's not waterboarding in my book.

This is a 4 year old child we are talking about here. No doubt close enough and without a doubt totally uncalled for.

Also:

She told them about the alleged torture and the terrified girl was found hiding in a closet, with bruising on her back and scratch marks on her neck and throat.
Asked how she got the bruises, the girl is said to have replied: 'Daddy did it.'
During a police interview Tabor allegedly admitted grabbing his daughter, placing her on the kitchen counter and submerging her face into a bowl of water.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...phabet.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0f4VKgsth
 
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:44 pm

I didn't say it was alright, just that it seems more like drowning. You forgot the part about the fact that she was afraid of water to begin with. And how they found the guy shouting in the street with his military helmet. He clearly looks insane.
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:24 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 7):
and force troops to carry this practice out on others, those who use and practice such become animals themselves.


I don't think many troops were involved with water boarding. It isn't like soldiers were waterboarding every person they came across. I bet this guy never waterboarded anyone, other than his daughter.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 23):
She told them about the alleged torture and the terrified girl was found hiding in a closet, with bruising on her back and scratch marks on her neck and throat.
Asked how she got the bruises, the girl is said to have replied: 'Daddy did it.'
During a police interview Tabor allegedly admitted grabbing his daughter, placing her on the kitchen counter and submerging her face into a bowl of water


I am by no means condoning child abuse, but this really isn't any worse than other forms of child abuse reported to authorities around the world on any given day. Most of those cases get very little media attention. The only reason this case got picked up is because it related to water boarding and Iraq vet.

I fear we will be hearing more negative stories about Iraq vets, just like the troubled Vietnam vet stereotype of the 70s and 80s. We always heard about the crazy Vietnam vet who beat his kids and couldn't hold a job, but we never heard about the successful Vietnam vets who had it together, like my dad. I always felt the leftist media couldn't let Vietnam go so they just kept bringing it up with crazy vet stories for years. The same will happen with these Iraq vets. When an Iraq vet does something wrong the fact that he/she was in Iraq will be part of the story, just like it was with the Vietnam vets. Sure war makes some people nutty, some people were already nutty before they went to war and there are a lot of nutty people who commit crimes that never were in a war.
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mham001
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:32 pm

I don't talk about it but I have stories from childhood along those same lines, and worse. It happens all the time, all over. Trying to tie this in to politics is ignorant and I think, disgusting on a different level.
 
RussianJet
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:54 pm

I thought waterboarding was a standard technique in US primary schools??
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afterburner
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:45 am

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 16):
Ever heard of Guantanamo Bay


Send him there...... forever !

... as a prisoner, not as a guard.
 
JMackey
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:01 am

Are " Section 8 " and " 51/50 " one in the same ?
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MCOflyer
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:05 am

This guy ought to be ashamed of himself and be thrown in the brig. How can his lawyers prove temporary insanity when he was in full control of himself and mentally fit? Unless they can prove he was not mentally fit and in control, good luck on that one.

KH
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AverageUser
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:08 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 26):
I don't talk about it but I have stories from childhood along those same lines, and worse.

I think you should talk them out with someone.
 
Mudboy
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:03 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 7):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 7):
Is it really any surprise? When you justify torture at every opportunity, and prescribe it for anyone arrested for anything remotely linked to or could be linked to "terror" as Republicans did, and force troops to carry this practice out on others, those who use and practice such become animals themselves.
Quoting Aesma (Reply 22):
He put her head in a bowl of water. That's not waterboarding in my book.
Quoting falstaff (Reply 25):
I don't think many troops were involved with water boarding. It isn't like soldiers were waterboarding every person they came across. I bet this guy never waterboarded anyone, other than his daughter.

First off, I don't think what he did, qualifies as water boarding, I think it is the media, doing what they do.. I do not in anyway condone what he did.

As for those of you that once again want to blame the big, evil US Military for water boarding, you should know, that any service member that has been through Level C S.E.R.E, has been water boarded several times and much more. All of your Special Ops Guys(Recon, Air Force PJs, SEALs, ARMY Special Forces etc.) as well as Air Crews that can be captured behind enemy lines, have gone through it. It is part of your resistance training.

I would like to know what his MOS is, and where he was deployed, before I started throwing stones.
 
sudden
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:07 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 32):
I would like to know what his MOS is, and where he was deployed, before I started throwing stones.


I don't think his daughter cares jack...about where he was deployed. It's freakin scary how you guys forget the fact that a 4 year old girl was tortured by her dad, her own dad! Using one thing against her that he knew she is very afraid of. Who will she be able to trust in the future, will she even dare to take a shower/bath, let alone go swimming with her friends when she gets older? The risk is big that she wont due to the trauma this has caused her. And it was all done by her dad! Soldier or not is irrelevant as it was her dad that she should be able to trust at all times.
And before anyone starts, yes I have kids myself.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:14 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 32):
As for those of you that once again want to blame the big, evil US Military for water boarding, you should know, that any service member that has been through Level C S.E.R.E, has been water boarded several times and much more. All of your Special Ops Guys(Recon, Air Force PJs, SEALs, ARMY Special Forces etc.) as well as Air Crews that can be captured behind enemy lines, have gone through it. It is part of your resistance training.

I kinda want to volunteer for it... everyone makes such a big deal about but from what I heard it's not too bad. Then again, I'm kinda into that challenging yourself stuff (they gas chamber was great!)
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Fabo
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:26 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
I kinda want to volunteer for it... everyone makes such a big deal about but from what I heard it's not too bad.

I guess its kinda worse when you know those doing it could not care less about killing you.
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:04 pm

Quoting JMackey (Reply 29):
Are " Section 8 " and " 51/50 " one in the same ?

No. IIRC, a "Section 8" is where you're discharged from the military based on mental illness whereas a "5150" is a term for an involuntary psychiatric hold of an individual by authorities.
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:15 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
I kinda want to volunteer for it... everyone makes such a big deal about but from what I heard it's not too bad. Then again, I'm kinda into that challenging yourself stuff (they gas chamber was great!)

Really? Like who?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUkj9pjx3H0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:41 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 37):
Really? Like who?

Well obviously not these guys. I'm talking about some SF guys. If my dad did SERE school a little later in life, he'd probably have had to do it, wish I had his perspective on it. I will admit, however, if I didn't know what waterboarding was and they did it, it would be quite scary
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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Aesma
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:04 pm

As Fabo pointed to, a big part of torture in general and that involving life-threatening treatment in particular, is that you really fear for your life (while also experiencing something obviously not agreeable). So while training for it is useful if you should one day really be tortured (at least you'll know the "technical" part), without the "fear factor" it's not the same.
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Mudboy
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:12 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 39):
As Fabo pointed to, a big part of torture in general and that involving life-threatening treatment in particular, is that you really fear for your life (while also experiencing something obviously not agreeable). So while training for it is useful if you should one day really be tortured (at least you'll know the "technical" part), without the "fear factor" it's not the same.

What you don't understand is while going through the training, you are telling yourself, "they cannot hurt me", but they keep you so sleep deprived, that you start believing it, and you just want it to stop. All of the things you saw in the pictures from Abu Ghraib, are done in SERE training, depending on what Level you go through.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:22 pm

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 40):

Yeah actually I do see what you mean. I mean basic training wasn't all that bad but they would do a pretty good job of messing with your mind even though you knew it was all a game. I was legitimately scared of all NCOs for a few weeks after getting out lol
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:26 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
*sigh* don't you know ANYTHING about child development? Waterboarding isn't torture, so it's not motivating enough. You have to use REAL torture to get your kid to say the alphabet. I recommend lit cigarettes between the fingers, first.

To get my three year-old son to do anything, I merely threaten no trip to the park. I've made good on it several times, so he knows papa's for real.
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ACDC8
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:42 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
Sounds like alot of mental health issues. Which is a serious problem with some guys coming home.
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 6):
Yep. Thats the answer. Torture someone who has mental health problems from fighting for his country. Really dude?
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 12):
So thats what you suggest you do with our ill vets? Throw them in jail? Christ even after Vietnam we didn't do that.

And such a fine young man the military molded him into ... seriously thats such a cop out  
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sudden
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:31 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 43):
And such a fine young man the military molded him into ... seriously thats such a cop out

Now that comment is worth an oscar on it's own.

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Sudden
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DeltaMD90
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:38 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 43):
And such a fine young man the military molded him into ... seriously thats such a cop out

I'm pretty sure this guy had lots of problems before he went in. Yeah, there are some strange people in the military too. But overall, I've seen it bring out the best in most people, so I think both comments have truth to them.
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
ACDC8
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:33 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 45):
But overall, I've seen it bring out the best in most people,

I agree with you completely, personally, I think military service can be very productive and beneficial to many people. For example, we have a large summer cadet camp where I live which hosts hundreds of teens every summer and if I had any kids, I would hope that they show some interest in joining up, not necessairly make it as a career, but to at least learn some valuable traits for life.

My comment was more or less directed at Cadet57s apparent theory that just because he's a vet with issues its all good and punishment need not apply to him. Theres no question that going to a war zone can wreak havoc on some ones mental state of mind, but thats not a get out of jail card as far as I'm concerned.
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RE: U.S. Soldier 'waterboarded His Own Daughter, 4

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:57 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 46):

Oh ok. Yeah I agree, no matter how good you are you should be punished/tried to reform. If anything, he should be put into a mental hospital. PTSD affects a lot of service members but (and I'm not being anti-military, I love the military) there really are some bad eggs in the basket who really are sane, just criminal.
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)

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