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Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:18 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100222/...n_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_airline_warning

I understand respecting culture beliefs but isn't his just a bit over the top?
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kaitak
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:27 pm

Just trying to throw its weight around; at the end of the day, who loses here; Iran has lots of flight links with Gulf states; if these are cut off (and these countries will reciprocate if their airlines are kicked off the route), then Iran inflicts a lot of economic damage on itself - and it's not as if its economy has been a stellar performer.

As one person wrote, "if Iran was so desperate for the Gulf to be known as the Persian Gulf, why did they change to country's name to Iran?!"

Maybe the best solution to this would be to re-name the Gulf as "the Islamic Gulf"?

The one thing that bothers me is whether this is a manufactured issue, which Iran intends to use as a big stick against its neighbours.
 
Eightball
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:45 pm

I think that a better solution could have been chosen for this issue. All the Iranians have to do is to meet up with their neighbors from across the Gulf in order to come up with a fair, unbiased solution.

[Edited 2010-02-22 14:35:25]
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mandala499
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:50 pm

Well, as far as I know from the geography lessons I received in my home country and in Europe, that gulf, is (or at least was) called the Persian gulf...
Now if people start calling it the Arabian gulf, the Iranian government need to look at the mirror and think why has some renamed it the Arabian gulf?

I do wonder, how will they check? Intercept an airline, force it to land, and inspect the inflight magazines to look at the map and see if it was written Arabian gulf or Persian gulf?   

Or, upon entering Iranian Airspace, the ATC would ask "XYZ###, are you over/going to the Arabian Gulf or the Persian Gulf?", if aircraft reply Persian Gulf, aircraft may proceed, and if aircraft reply Arabian gulf, the plane has it's flight plan portion over Iranian airspace cancelled?   

If they're asking about the inflight maps on the IFE... then let's just shut down the moving map whilst it's in Iranian airspace...   

Mandala499
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brianhames
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:00 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
"if Iran was so desperate for the Gulf to be known as the Persian Gulf, why did they change to country's name to Iran?!"

Probably because ethnically Iranians are Persian, not Arab. Hence "Arabian Gulf" really ticks them off it appears as noted in the BBC version of the story.
 
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:19 pm

Oh imagine if the Gulf of Mexico is named Gulf of Texas on US airline flights, or the North Sea is called British Sea I can also imagine that Mexico or the Netherlands would put up some protest.
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lightsaber
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:26 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
Just trying to throw its weight around; at the end of the day, who loses here; Iran has lots of flight links with Gulf states; if these are cut off (and these countries will reciprocate if their airlines are kicked off the route), then Iran inflicts a lot of economic damage on itself - and it's not as if its economy has been a stellar performer.

My opinion too. I doubt Iran had in the bilaterals "you will call this sea the Persian Gulf." So if they cancel rights, it is violating a bilateral.

BBC link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8527729.stm

I like this quote in the BBC link:
"As for the minister, Hamid Behbahani, it may or may not be a coincidence that he is making a stand on this patriotic matter at a time when he is facing calls for his impeachment for alleged lack of competence. "

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
Oh imagine if the Gulf of Mexico is named Gulf of Texas on US airline flights,

Fine... Mexico could ban WN flights.     

Lightsaber
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prebennorholm
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:09 pm

The water which is named Baltic Sea in English, is named Eastern Sea here in Denmark.

In Estonia, however, the same water is named Western Sea.

Hey Estonia, should we prepare some flak?   

BTW, what is the name of the Finnish Bay in Estonia?

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AT
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:16 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
Oh imagine if the Gulf of Mexico is named Gulf of Texas on US airline flights, or the North Sea is called British Sea I can also imagine that Mexico or the Netherlands would put up some protest.

excellent point!
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:28 pm

I am Middle East studies major (BA & MA), I once jokingly alluded to the "Arabian Gulf" in a presentation about Saudi-Iranian relations in class. The teacher, a well educated "secularist" lowered my participation grade by a full letter grade on the spot.

They take it REALLY seriously.

Geographically speaking, Iran makes up the majority of the shoreline, and significant populations of Iranians have lived on both sides of the Gulf, so really it should be the "Persian Gulf", besides the Arabs get the "Arabian Sea", which barely touches any Arab countries.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 3):
the Iranian government need to look at the mirror and think why has some renamed it the Arabian gulf?

Politics, and a generally anti-Iranian (and anti-Shi'a) sentiment among the predominantly Sunni Arab governments on the other side of the Gulf.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
"if Iran was so desperate for the Gulf to be known as the Persian Gulf, why did they change to country's name to Iran?!"

The papa Shah (Reza Shah) renamed it Iran, there are a couple reasons why, IMO he did it because "Persian" is one of many ethnic groups and languages in Iran, it would make more sense have a neutral name than have one that is associated with one ethnic group. It also granted a bit of legitimacy to Iranian territorial claims over (parts of) Azerbaijan and Armenia.
 
dz09
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:28 pm

Split the thing in the middle and call the half closer to iran persian gulf and the other arabian gulf. What a silly issue!
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:46 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 7):

True, also in German, it is called Ostsee, Eastern Sea. The North Sea, called Nordsee in German, is called Vesterhavet in Danish, so its also the West-Sea in Danish. But that are just geographic names without political impacts, unlike the situation in the Gulf.

Of course, during cold war, there were lots of similiar issues between the Communist States and the west. For example, calling West-Germany "BRD" was prohibited in western Germany, as it was used in the East.

All propaganda. There are more relevant problems this world has to solve.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:56 pm

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 10):
What a silly issue!

It is a silly issue.

Since I doubt Iran spelled out any details in a bilateral, when they cancel other nation's rights to fly to Iran, it should automatically void Iran's rights. That might become interesting very quickly. This could effectively put a 'wall' for flights in and out of Iran (in particular, Saudi).

What fraction of Iranian flights require over-flight rights over nations whom would be banned. e.g, Saudi is unlikely to back down.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 9):
so really it should be the "Persian Gulf",

I read what you wrote, but I wonder 'why?' when I look at a map, most of the coastline looks to be UAE/Saudi/Qatar.


Please read this:

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 7):
The water which is named Baltic Sea in English, is named Eastern Sea here in Denmark.

In Estonia, however, the same water is named Western Sea.

ElmoTheHobo, different nations have a right to name different seas different things. This shouldn't be handled this way by Iran (I know, a shock). I'm going to be curious if any flights are banned.

Since some nations do not want to be associated with the Persian empire... Iran should accept that and let sleeping dogs lie.

I see the UAE bans the term 'Persian Gulf.' Ok, tit for tat.    Names change. I think this would hurt Iran far more than anyone else.

Lightsaber
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elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:59 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 11):
All propaganda. There are more relevant problems this world has to solve.

Absolutely, but why fight over issues of substance when you can fight over the nitty gritty details.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
I see the UAE bans the term 'Persian Gulf.' Ok, tit for tat.    Names change. I think this would hurt Iran far more than anyone else.

The UAE wouldn't, there are simply too many business and cultural connections between the UAE and Iran.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
ElmoTheHobo, different nations have a right to name different seas different things. This shouldn't be handled this way by Iran (I know, a shock). I'm going to be curious if any flights are banned.

They do, but the recognized, international term for the Persian Gulf is "The Persian Gulf." Besides, as I mentioned, the Arabs get the "Arabian Sea."

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
Since some nations do not want to be associated with the Persian empire... Iran should accept that and let sleeping dogs lie.

It's not that the nations don't want to be associated with the Persian Empire, in fact the Iranians are the ones that are more upset with their past in the Arab world (or more specifically, the "Arab Conquest'). It's more of a nonsense issue for the Arab side of the Gulf to poke at Iran over, knowing full well that Iran isn't going to do anything back. It goes back to this tit for tat nationalism - Ahmadinejad tries to appeal to the so-called "Arab Street," and rile the Shi'a masses, Qatar/Kuwait come back by calling the "Persian Gulf" the "Arabian Gulf." It'll be funny when, fifty years down the line, Iran will have the most remaining oil and the Gulf states will have gone through most of their oil.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
It is a silly issue.

Something we can both agree on.
 
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:11 am

why not just call it The Gulf. Everybody will be happy
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cpd
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:21 am

Storm.... Teacup....

But, Persian Gulf is the name I've always known.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:38 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 9):
Geographically speaking, Iran makes up the majority of the shoreline, and significant populations of Iranians have lived on both sides of the Gulf, so really it should be the "Persian Gulf", besides the Arabs get the "Arabian Sea", which barely touches any Arab countries.

Sorry to say but you are wrong here. The majority of the population leaving around that Gulf are Arab Tribes. Iran is trying to wipe up all traces to the Arabs in Iran even if they are a large portion of the Iranians.

That danger from the East is real.
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magyar
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:10 am

Why not just call the thing "Arab-Persian Gulf"?
Oh, wait, maybe not, they would start fighting over which comes first "Arab" or "Persian".
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:37 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 11):
The North Sea, called Nordsee in German, is called Vesterhavet in Danish, so its also the West-Sea in Danish.

Right! But in fact the North Sea has two names in Danish language, Vesterhavet (Western Sea) and Nordsøen (North Sea).

During the last few decades the name Nordsøen has become much more widely used, and for instance the national weather bureau never uses the (old) name Vesterhavet.

We have changed it due to political pressure from Germany. We do not want to have our airliners shot down over German territory due to a name conflict.   
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elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:38 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 16):
Sorry to say but you are wrong here. The majority of the population leaving around that Gulf are Arab Tribes. Iran is trying to wipe up all traces to the Arabs in Iran even if they are a large portion of the Iranians.

That is not entirely correct. While Arab tribes make up a significant portion of the population along the coast, the biggest population is in Khuzestan, and even there, they do not make up a significant majority (if at all, culturally). Ethnic Arabs make up a small portion of the total population of Iran (>5%), and of those many are not "Tribal Arabs," rather they came after 1900.

And there are no such attempts to "wipe up all traces of the Arabs in Iran." Arabic is taught in many schools and universities, and many Arabs of Khuzestan still speak Arabic. The same cannot be said of countries of the Arabian Gulf, which have made explicit attempts to curb Shi'a rights and identity.

I am not a defender of the Iranian regime or an Arabophile/Iranophile , I am just stating facts that are often confused or cooked up to benefit each other's argument.

Point being, you can call it what you want, but it is officially recognized as the Persian Gulf.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:49 am

I guess burning American flags is just too old now, so they'll start banning Arab airlines, theis will definatly be a first banning sombody over how a natural feature is named. Now "countries" is a different story but natural features, sombody should knock some common sense in to im'a'nut'job (sorry can't spell his name, well not all that sorry) over there and have him do somthing usefull for his country to gain some amount of international respect besides north korea.
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irelayer
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:09 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Thread starter):
I understand respecting culture beliefs but isn't his just a bit over the top?

It's not a cultural belief. That's its name. I agree though, probably not the best way to deal with the situation.

Imagine changing "Indian Ocean" to something else, or "South China Sea" to something else. This is just a manifestation as a loooooong running cultural rivalry between Arab states and Iran.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
Just trying to throw its weight around; at the end of the day, who loses here; Iran has lots of flight links with Gulf states; if these are cut off (and these countries will reciprocate if their airlines are kicked off the route), then Iran inflicts a lot of economic damage on itself - and it's not as if its economy has been a stellar performer.

As one person wrote, "if Iran was so desperate for the Gulf to be known as the Persian Gulf, why did they change to country's name to Iran?!"

Maybe the best solution to this would be to re-name the Gulf as "the Islamic Gulf"?

The one thing that bothers me is whether this is a manufactured issue, which Iran intends to use as a big stick against its neighbours.

Persia "changed" its name to Iran because "Iran" is what "Iranians" had been calling themselves for millenia. Persia was the Western name for the country.

-IR
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:21 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 19):
That is not entirely correct. While Arab tribes make up a significant portion of the population along the coast

I am talking about the complete population around the Arabian Gulf not only in Iran, we should include UAE, Saudi,
Qatar, Kuwait and Iraq.
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elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:15 am

I would be surprised if they really did this, IMO this is just saber rattling that is going to be met by more saber rattling, and then by some Saudi F16s and AWACS straddling the international maritime border while some Iranian F-14s take off from Bandar Abbas and land on Kish Island only to fly back to Bandar Abbas.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 22):
I am talking about the complete population around the Arabian Gulf not only in Iran, we should include UAE, Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait and Iraq.

If you include Iraq, you can include Iran's entire population. Even all those countries combined do not add up to Iran's current population (71M). Iraq (25M), Saudi Arabia (25M), Qatar (1.2M), UAE (4.5M), Bahrain (.75M), Oman (2.75M).

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 20):
I guess burning American flags is just too old now

It's not like they just woke up one day and decided to burn American flags, there is a history of Western intervention that seems to be forgotten on this side of the world, and they are pissed with good reason.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 20):
over there and have him do somthing usefull for his country to gain some amount of international respect besides north korea.

It's hard out there for Iran. They are surrounded by nuclear powers or countries protected by nuclear umbrellas, not to mention having US forces and allies on their Eastern and Western flanks, with generally hostile countries across the Persian Gulf.

I'm not going to condone them building nuclear weapons, but you can understand why they want they them.
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:24 am

The UN in one of the maps calls it Persian Gulf - (although with a disclaimer)
http://cyberschoolbus.un.org/infonation/index.asp?id=784


The UAE page on the CIA World factbook refers it to as Persian Gulf -
Quote:
Location:
Middle East, bordering the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf, between Oman and Saudi Arabia

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ae.html
 
timpdx
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:37 am

I sort of thought about these sorts of things when I was on an EY flight from AUH to JFK last month. We jogged north pretty far into Iran, as I could see on the monitor and out the window. probably trying to avoid headwinds. But for the good 45 minutes we were over Iran territory, I thought about "what if there is a tech issue right now?" or "did EY file a flight plan from AUH to JFK and does Iran know about it?" Now there is this silly issue to consider.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:41 am

Over-flights is not a right, but a privilege, and rarely part of bilateral agreements(except some with former USSR).

A country is free to allow transit or not, so Iran very easily can deny transit of its territories if it so wishes without likely being in any violation of other agreements.
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TGV
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:57 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 7):
The water which is named Baltic Sea in English, is named Eastern Sea here in Denmark.

Between the UK and France we have the "English Channel" on one side, and "La Manche" on the other side.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 3):
Well, as far as I know from the geography lessons I received in my home country and in Europe, that gulf, is (or at least was) called the Persian gulf...

So did I.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 9):
I once jokingly alluded to the "Arabian Gulf" in a presentation about Saudi-Iranian relations in class. The teacher, a well educated "secularist" lowered my participation grade by a full letter grade on the spot.

I have an exactly symetrical experience when working in the GCC countries (the arabian peninsula countries): we were summoned by the officials to change Persian Gulf to Arabian Gulf on all maps we were using.
So it is not an Iranian issue, both sides do the same.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 16):
The majority of the population living around that Gulf are Arab Tribes.

If the names of countries come from the majority of the population living there, how should be called the UAE ?
"South Asian Emirates" ?
  

[Edited 2010-02-22 21:59:07]
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N1120A
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:26 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 22):
Arabian Gulf

Oh come on, its the Persian Gulf. Saudi Arabia and the whole Arabian Peninsula would just be a desert with a few Bedouin if there wasn't oil there.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Oh come on, its the Persian Gulf. Saudi Arabia and the whole Arabian Peninsula would just be a desert with a few Bedouin if there wasn't oil there.

And Iran would be what??? It is the Arabian Gulf for me thats the way i learned it, thats the way i will call, you can call it whatever you like. Also without oil where would civilisation be?
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N1120A
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:23 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 29):

And Iran would be what???

Iran is and always has been far more than oil.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 29):
Also without oil where would civilisation be?

Perhaps more civilized.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 29):
It is the Arabian Gulf for me thats the way i learned it, thats the way i will call, you can call it whatever you like

It has been called the Persian Gulf for thousands of years. The Arabian Gulf garbage started with the rise of Arab Nationalism in the 60s. Thousands of years vs. less than 50. Tough choice there.

If you want to call something the Arabian Gulf, call the Red Sea that. The Ptolemy called it that.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:12 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
The Arabian Gulf garbage

Very nice choice of words shows your personality.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
Iran is and always has been far more than oil.

Don;t just say something prove it. There is not a lot of difference in that area before oil.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
Perhaps more civilized.

Maybe but we would have to live without A.Net

BTW with all due respect to your Iranian heritage this is not a personal thing against Iranians but the clan ruling that country now is what worriying me, i do not trust them, and i feel they are dangerous and if they get nuclear weapon that will be a disaster for humanity.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
airxliban
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:27 am

Persian Gulf is the correct name for the body of water in question.

Not sure whether the Iranian government wants to use this is a bargaining chip or whether it is some sort of charade.
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us330
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:54 pm

Now this is a sign of a government with its priorities in check!

I don't know what other countries/languages call the body of water in question, but in American English, its the Persian Gulf and should remain so--the problem with it being named the Arabian Gulf is that the Arabian Sea is right next door, so calling one the Persian Gulf and the other the Arabian Sea prevents average Americans from confusing the two.

Other languages and countries have every right to call it whatever the heck they want--it has nothing to do with issues relating to control or sovereignty over the body of water in question. A
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:29 pm

How about this solution: Call it the "Gulf of the Middle East" and call it a day. I think it has a nice ring to it.
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directorguy
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:21 pm

I've always known it as the 'Persian Gulf'. A few years ago, I was doing an (Arabic) Social Studies exam and was required to fill in a blank map; I used the term 'Persian Gulf'. The teacher marked it as wrong and when I spoke to him about it, he wouldn't budge. I just don't understand why some governments insist on making up names to suit their political ideology. I'd have no problem if the GCC petitioned the UN or whoever to recognise it as the Arabian Gulf-but until then, Arab governments should face reality and stop referring to Israel as 'Palestine' and the Persian Gulf as 'Arabian'.
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:49 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 32):
Persian Gulf is the correct name for the body of water in question.

On the globe that I have, which was made in the 80s, it is listed as the Persian Gulf. That is what I always called it and I never heard it called anything else. Even in my two University geography classes it was called the Persian Gulf.
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vc10
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:53 pm

The only purpose in given any geographical feature a name is so other people know where you are talking about. If the rest of the world want to call it the Arabian Gulf, then the Iranian's can whistle in the wind ,but it will still be called the Arabian Gulf

As has been shown already on this topic many places are called different names by different population, but as the world gets smaller one name will usually come to fore.

As an additional example the "English Channel " is called by the French so I understand as "La Manche" meaning the sleeve, and the ever diplomatic Dutch call it "Het Kannal" meaning "The Channel."
Therefore in future unles everybody calls it the "English Channel" we will blockade the shipping lanes so blocking ships using it to go to Northern Europe oops do the Swedish call that southern Europe  

I remember this being a problem back in the 1960s and you would call it what ever the country you were talking to wanted you to call it

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N1120A
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:25 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 31):
if they get nuclear weapon that will be a disaster for humanity.

Those guys are morons, but not so stupid as to know the consequences of actually using a nuclear weapon, or even letting one fall into a terrorist's hands. That the only nuclear weapons used in history are still Hiroshima and Nagasaki tells you something about that. Pakistan's nukes are far more worrisome, and even that isn't the biggest concern. The only world leader with enough crazy to launch one is Kim.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 31):
BTW with all due respect to your Iranian heritage this is not a personal thing against Iranians but the clan ruling that country now is what worriying me, i do not trust them, and i feel they are dangerous

The "clan?" Well, if you are referring to Rafsanjani's family controlling massive parts of the economy, I guess you have a point.

You know who I don't trust? The Saudis. The true cradle of terror, more of a dictatorship than Iran could ever be and yet WAY too close to the US government.

Quoting vc10 (Reply 37):

As an additional example the "English Channel " is called by the French so I understand as "La Manche" meaning the sleeve, and the ever diplomatic Dutch call it "Het Kannal" meaning "The Channel."

The difference is that there is significant history for both names. There isn't for the Persian Gulf.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:52 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
You know who I don't trust? The Saudis. The true cradle of terror, more of a dictatorship than Iran could ever be and yet WAY too close to the US government.

The question I have is why do we accept the behavior of the Saudi's, and not the Iranians if this were true? That makes no sense......
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yowza
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:41 pm

The Iranians can harp all they want. The GCC has them under their thumb.
http://airceo.com/2010/02/iran-to-ba...s-not-using-the-term-persian-gulf/

YOWza
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:06 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
You know who I don't trust? The Saudis. The true cradle of terror, more of a dictatorship than Iran could ever be and yet WAY too close to the US government

Can uou give any proof for such statetment from 2001 till now? And please no hearsay.
At least they are not trying to get nuclear weapons.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:05 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 36):
Even in my two University geography classes it was called the Persian Gulf.


That's because "Persian Gulf" is the international accepted term. Arabian Gulf is a regional issue, a product of Arab Nationalism that saw/sees Iran as an alien, outside and untrustworthy foe which sounds awfully...

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 34):
How about this solution: Call it the "Gulf of the Middle East" and call it a day. I think it has a nice ring to it.

Orientalist! That's probably the most realistic, offend no one, politically correct solution. (In Arabic, the term Khaleej al Sharq al Awsat would still be politically charged, as it wouldn't be exclusively Arab). Using the Gulf of Mexico example, it would be like if they changed the name to "The Gulf Between North and Central America."

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 31):
Very nice choice of words shows your personality.

It does, it reveals a long-running tension between Arabs and Iranians. Remember the Iran-Iraq War, when hundreds of thousands of Iranian civilians were slaughtered with the tacit approval of almost every government of the world (ironically enough with the exception of Israel), or that Saudi Arabia, and not Iran was where 15 of the 19 hijackers originated from, or where women still can neither vote nor drive.

Iran getting a nuclear bomb means nothing, it just puts it on an even playing field with the rest of the region, which sits comfortably under a nuclear umbrella or has the benefit of having it's own nuclear weapons (Pakistan, Israel, Russia and India have nuclear bombs; Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Turkey, the UAE, etc... are protected by the American Nuclear umbrella; there are American forces in Afghanistan, Iraq, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, Turkey, etc...).

Put short: Iran with a nuclear bomb is completely rational, and no matter what Ahmadinejad says, he'll never use a nuke as an offensive weapon. He doesn't have control of the military, and Ali Khamanei knows full well that a nuke anywhere would bring nothing more than a nuclear holocaust to Iran.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 31):
Don't just say something prove it. There is not a lot of difference in that area before oil.

Iran is a highly developed country, considering the sanctions and embargoes placed on it by the West. Beyond that, it is a representative republic in a land of dictators, despots and monarchs. It is a flawed system, but it is a homegrown republican government that drew from the French constitution for its own (yes, the crazies who took over in 1979 were actually heavily influenced by French secularists).

For all of the negative press, Iran has granted women tremendous rights relative to the surrounding countries, and has made attempts to preserve it's ethnic and religious heritage - to some extent. Iran could well be a model of representative government, however they are heavily tainted by their violent persecution of religious minorities, and the recent election. Prior to 2009, Iran's elections were as safe, secure and reliable as those in the West (who cares if a Guardian Council chooses the President, "Super delegates" delegates choose candidates in America, and the Supreme Court chose the President in 2000)... it's a "Republic" not a "Democracy".
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:25 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 41):
At least they are not trying to get nuclear weapons.

Saudi Arabia doesn't need nuclear weapons, they are protected by the United States' nuclear umbrella.

Secondly, after extensively researching the topic, with no outside help, Saudi Arabia would be unable to develop a nuclear bomb in the near term because of a lack of technical know how. Simply put, there are not enough trained nuclear engineers, physicists, etc... in Saudi Arabia. Iran has a long (along with India, Iraq and Pakistan among others) long history of having their students educated in these fields abroad, and bringing that technical knowledge home. AQ Khan, the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb (and a grade-A weapons trafficker) got his technical know-how while he studied in Germany, Belgium, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands, studying on the Pakistani government's dime.

Though Saudi students study extensively in the West, there is nowhere near the same focus on nuclear engineering, more business and petroleum engineering if anything.
 
Eightball
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:29 am

I was taught in all of my geography classes at school that the gulf between Iran and the GCC states is called the Arabian Gulf. As a little kid, I remember being puzzled that this same gulf is referred to as the Persian Gulf in international news channels like CNN.

I'm an Arab, and I believe that it should be called the Persian Gulf. This is for two reasons:

1- It is the name that is recognized by the UN, and the name that, as far as I know, all of the countries in the world recognize except for most of the Arab states. Indeed, it has been called the Persian Gulf for thousands of years, and quite frankly I see no that there's no valid reason for it to be renamed the Arabian Gulf.

2- The Arab world should call it the Persian Gulf as an act of good will towards the Iranians.

I've been studying in the U.S. since 2007, and during my time here in the states, I've been fortunate to meet some great people from Iran. My positive experiences with Iranians in the U.S. are for me a sign of hope that Arabs and Iranians can truly be friendly with one another.

There is absolutely no benefit from animosity, while friendship fosters peace and good will. It's about time that the Arabs and the Iranians put all of their differences aside and quite simply get along.

[Edited 2010-02-24 17:31:12]
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b727fan
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:48 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 16):
Sorry to say but you are wrong here. The majority of the population leaving around that Gulf are Arab Tribes. Iran is trying to wipe up all traces to the Arabs in Iran even if they are a large portion of the Iranians.


Sorry to burst your bubble   , but Saudi Arabia is the one county which has wiped out minorities. historically, you had Jews, Christians and even pagans living there. What happened to them? I think we know the answer. And FYI, Iran is made up of many ethnics and races, that is one reason why it went back to the original name of Iran (which by the way means land of Aryans, and no we are not talking about the damn KKK! look it up)
Majority in Iran however, are Persian:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middl...asia/iran_country_profile_2004.jpg

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Oh come on, its the Persian Gulf. Saudi Arabia and the whole Arabian Peninsula would just be a desert with a few Bedouin if there wasn't oil there.

to that you can ad the newcomers such as the Qatar and UAE. We just saw how capable Dubai is when $$ run out!   

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
The question I have is why do we accept the behavior of the Saudi's, and not the Iranians if this were true? That makes no sense......


Because we are in bed with them for the "oil"   give it a couple of more decades.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 41):

Can uou give any proof for such statetment from 2001 till now? And please no hearsay.
At least they are not trying to get nuclear weapons.

How about "madrassas" that teach wuhabi extremism? are they abolished?

Anyway, back to the Topic, the name is Persian Gulf, and that has to do with the historical relevancy. If the Arabs in the other side of the Gulf wish to call it Arabian Gulf, well, it should be their prerogative.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Persian_Gulf
Iranians respect the name for Gulf of Oman however and don't seem to have an issue with it. Now, if Iran threatens to ban Airlines due to this conflict, I think they just shoot themselves in the foot and hurt their own economical situation even more.
As for the rulling thugs who run Iran, they are more pro-Arabs than many of the Arabs around the Gulf (the Iranina government openly aids Palestinian terror groups, and Hezbollah in Lebanon). The people of Iran however are for most part peaceful and are striving for democracy. they also very nationalistic and it is sad to see their image tarnished by the ruling theocracy.
Mark my worlds, when Iran turns around, and it will, and if it gains democracy or some sort of a free government, the Renaissance will put all of the regional competitors in its back pocket. Iran is rich not only with mining and oil resources, but also with history, archeology, diversity of culture and even nature.

[Edited 2010-02-24 16:50:33]
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:30 am

Quoting B727fan (Reply 45):
How about "madrassas" that teach wuhabi extremism? are they abolished?

We don't ban schools founded by Baptist extremists, they are entitled to teach whatever nonsense they want. Saudi Arabia has cracked down on terrorist organizations once they've been formed (Al Qaeda is vehemently anti-Saud family), but they've never addressed the root of the problem.

Quoting B727fan (Reply 45):
As for the rulling thugs who run Iran, they are more pro-Arabs than many of the Arabs around the Gulf (the Iranina government openly aids Palestinian terror groups, and Hezbollah in Lebanon).

Not as much pro-Arab as they are pro Shi'a and anti-Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah give Iran leverage. The rulers in Iran are ideologically opposed to Hamas, which is a Sunni organization, they, however, share a common enemy. Hezbollah, on the other hand, is Iran's favorite foreign organization - they do the work of the Ayatollah in Lebanon, representing a population that was marginalized both by the Muslims and Christians. In addition to patting themselves on the back for doing charity for the Shi'a community, they've also positioned themselves in the mountains of eastern Lebanon and the battle ground north of the Litani river, making them a veritable foe in Israel's side.

By the way, in the Grand Bargain, Iran offered to withdraw all support of Hamas and of Hezbollah's militant wing, as well as end it's conflict with Israel in exchange for Palestinian independence. A strategic and symbolic victory that would usurp any other Arab's power in the region, and make Iran - a peripheral power in the region - the most influential in the peace process.

Quoting B727fan (Reply 45):
Majority in Iran however, are Persian:

I would say even that is debatable, but they are certainly the single largest ethnic group. Ali Khamanei, interestingly enough, isn't a "pure Persian," he's part Azeri part Persian.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:34 am

Quoting B727fan (Reply 45):
How about "madrassas" that teach wuhabi extremism? are they abolished?

Not to nitpick or come off as rude, but "madrassa" merely means school in Arabic and Persian (and a few other languages). It's unfortunate that such an innocent word was coined by a media that was too lazy to say "religious school" and now has Westerners all hyped up. It's a simple phrase, but it drives me nuts when talking heads rant about all the "Madrassas in the Pakistan..." well of course there are schools in Pakistan, it's a country of 130 million. "Madrassa al Amriki" for example, would mean "American School", but as a westerner we'd immediately assume it to some kind of religious school against Americans.
 
dambuster
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:46 am

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 14):

This new trend by certain Arab states has got to stop, why change an official name? It was called Persian Gulf in the first place because Persians dominated that region for quite a while and they gave it that name. Arabs should have intervened at that time, now is more than 2000 years late.

I'd like to be neutral, but you can hardly defend the Arabian case here... hypocrisy has got to stop, remember when the Arabs paid National Geographic to change the name a few years ago?
 
dambuster
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RE: Iran Issues Ban Warning Over Gulf Identification

Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:56 am

One important fact here: Iran's population: 75 million, Saudi Arabia's population 28 million, UAE population nearly 7 million of which only 17.8% are of Arab ethnicity (huge proportion of Iranians who would refuse to call it the Gulf or even worse the new term 'Arabian Gulf' ), and I am a firm believer that Iranians have way more to offer than oil... If it weren't for the corrupt Islamic government.

By the way, Iranians do not belong to the Arab ethnicity, you can call them Persians, Iranians and at some point in history you could call them Arians without causing anger and being considered a Nazi...

Anyway, someone has got to explain with facts how on earth and when did they come up with the name 'Arabian Gulf' or the Gulf? Why is it coming up now?

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