Springbok747
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Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:25 pm

Who the hell cares if someone has a Hummer? A Land Cruiser, Tahoe, Expedition, Titan, whatever, is the same damn thing.
So why so many pics of Hummers getting fingered? Does it have something to do with Prius drivers?

אני תומך בישראל
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:30 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
So why so many pics of Hummers getting fingered?

Hummers take up so much of the width space on the road. Most of the Hummer owners are more like they think they own the road and that only Hummers should be the only vehicle on them.

I cannot count how many times a Hummer nearly ran me off the road, especially on Pena Blvd at DEN.

IMO, Hummers belong on off-road tails, not on the paved surfaces on a daily basis. They were not built for daily driving on paved surfaces. I guess the mantra is like "My vehicle is bigger than yours" crap.

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Does it have something to do with Prius drivers?

They are a totally different pack, however they are the slowest of the bunch.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Airport
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:30 pm

I have a personal disdain for Hummers, but it goes beyond the vehicle.

Apart from being f***ugly, to me it's the ultimate symbol of material excess. I can't tell you how many people I know that drive them and don't need them. Should they have a right to drive them? Sure. But I have the right to laugh at them for it. I just think they're incredibly ugly, and everytime I see one I can't help but think "sorry about your penis."

I mean, all of what I say goes with exception to people who have trucks and actually need them. But the truth of the matter is that I know so many that don't, and that think they're tough shit while on the road. Usually that attitude carries over to their driving. Typically the people I know that drive them are arrogant, self-righteous windbags who think their manhood is somehow validated by it. Yeah, I'm stereotyping, and I understand that not ALL Hummer drivers are like that, but the majority I've met are. And I stereotype. Deal.

[Edited 2010-02-25 12:35:08]
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:47 pm

The Toyota Land Cruiser is a very capable offroad vehicle (nickname "Bush taxi" due to it´s widespread use in rural third world countries with bad to non-existing roads). The same applies to the Land Rover Defender, the Range Rover (in it´s original form, not the later yuppyized city dweller versions), the Land Rover Discovery 1 (again later models were designed more in favour of road comfort than off road ruggedness), the Mercedes G Class and the older Nissan Patrol. I don´t know enough about the other ones.
The Hummer H1 was directly based on the military HMMWV off road truck, while the later H2 and H3 are based on civilian vehicle (IIRC the Suburban), which were not designed for heavy offroad work and only share a similarity in the bodywork.
As such the later Hummers have become status symbols for a certain type of urban show off (Even though I´m living in the countryside, I often see a yellow H3 driving throug my village, which, after the look of it´s scratchless paint coat and chromium plated wheels has never even seen a dirt road).
You take an H3 into a muddy sandpit it will get hopelessly stuck. The H1 and the military HMMWV wil be able to get through, as will the Toyota and the Land Rover Defender.

Jan

[Edited 2010-02-25 12:58:08]

[Edited 2010-02-25 13:02:05]
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BMI727
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:51 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Does it have something to do with Prius drivers?

Not Prius drivers specifically, but the ecotards in general.

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Who the hell cares if someone has a Hummer?

Exactly. It is their car, and they are paying to put gas in it. If you don't want to pay that much for fuel, the solution is so simple even the greenies can understand it. Don't buy a Hummer!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
Hummers take up so much of the width space on the road.

So? They are legal. If it is really that big of a problem then the laws should change. Also, what about RV, which are often far larger than a Hummer.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
They were not built for daily driving on paved surfaces.

But people do it. And if they are willing to pay the penalty for the extra capability then I don't see the problem.

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
Apart from being f***ugly,

Function before form. The windshield on the H1 is actually tilted slightly forward so that light reflecting upwards cannot potentially catch the attention of any aircraft overhead. And the bulges in the doors were to facilitate the addition of a power window system, that was not used on the military variant.

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
to me it's the ultimate symbol of material excess.

Material excess is wonderful it you can afford it.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:54 pm

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
and everytime I see one I can't help but think "sorry about your penis."

  

Especially if it's a woman driving!

My major problem with people who drive SUVs and such (and who don't have any need for them) is that they constantly assume that they are driving a freaking tractor-trailer or something. I can't count how many times I've been approaching an intersection in the 2nd-to-right lane, with an SUV in the right lane who is making a right turn. Invariably, they swing over to the left side of their lane (or even a tiny bit into my lane) before making the turn.

I just want to scream at those people: your car's width and wheelbase are not THAT much bigger than mine. You don't need to make a freaking wide right turn! You will not run over the curb!

Not to mention, if you're that worried about it, drive straight for 2 more feet before starting your turn instead of swinging out wide!
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:03 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Does it have something to do with Prius drivers?

I hate *Hummers as much as hybrids. They both are driven by people who somehow feel superior because of them, people driving them don't seem to know how to drive, both cars claim to be able to do things they don't achieve, they're both fugly, etc etc etc.

*I don't dislike the H1 as an engineering accomplishment one bit, quite the opposite in fact, those can really go anywhere. But those who own the civilian version and never ever take them off the pavement are only flaunting their lack of manhood/taste/intelligence/etc.

But the H2/H3 are just glorified and overpriced Suburbans/Tahoes with some nasty lipstick on.
 
BMI727
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:04 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
while the later H2 and H3 are based on civilian vehicle (IIRC the Suburban), which were not designed for heavy offroad work and only share a similarity in the bodywork.

The H2 and H3 are based off of the Tahoe/Suburban (GMT800) and Colorado platforms respectively, but both the H2 and H3 are quite capable offroad, much more so than their platform mates. This was one of the conditions when GM went about designing the H2. They were simply not willing to water down the Hummer pedigree.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
as will the Toyota

The modern ones? I think that an H2 is more capable than a modern Toyota Land Cruiser.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:10 pm

My comments that follow are restricted to the H2 and H3. The H1 is an exception, but is not sold anymore.

My problem with the Hummer is that it's not good at anything that it purports to do. It's not good at going off-road. It's not good at hauling things internally— a minivan or station wagon is better. It's not stylish.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
bhill
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:12 pm

For the same reason we were pissed over the bonuses handed out to the financial Oligarchs this last year...They are gauche...nothing wrong with being confident, but I think the days of "Fxxk You I got mine" are gone. Besides, they are not needed, as previous posters have said, the pretty shiny hummer with chrome wheels probably would'nt do well off road. It also tuns out that in many citys, they are too wide to park legally on the street...residential that is...
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flanker
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:17 pm

I don't hate Hummers. and if you can afford to drive one then more power to you.

It is not my business what other people pick to drive, nor should it be any of yours either.

Yes, this even extends to the Eco-tards.

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
So why so many pics of Hummers getting fingered? Does it have something to do with Prius drivers?

It has to do with the specific far left propaganda thats all.

[Edited 2010-02-25 13:20:39]
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BMI727
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:18 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
It's not good at going off-road.
Quoting bhill (Reply 9):
the pretty shiny hummer with chrome wheels probably would'nt do well off road.

Yes, it would. Far better than its more conventional counterparts for sure. Take an Escalade or Lexus RX off road and see how far you get. The H2 and H3 are based on other platforms, but they are not mere badge engineering.

Quoting bhill (Reply 9):
I think the days of "Fxxk You I got mine" are gone.

Not for me.
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N328KF
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:21 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Take an Escalade or Lexus RX off road and see how far you get.

If I were truly going off-road, I'd not take either of those or an H2 or H3. You have assumed that I was comparing the H2 or H3 to those models.

When I have gone off-road, I've used a Wrangler, but there are other vehicles that would do well, also.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
BMI727
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:25 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 12):
You have assumed that I was comparing the H2 or H3 to those models.

You didn't specify, so I picked vehicles likely to be cross shopped with an H2. The Wrangler does a great job off road, but I doubt that many H2 owners checked out Wranglers or vice versa. The Wranger could probably do as good or better an H2 off road, but falls short on creature comforts.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Okie
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:29 pm

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
So why so many pics of Hummers getting fingered

Same reason a painter always gets fingered. It is pretty easy to spot a painter.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
The H2 and H3 are based off of the Tahoe/Suburban (GMT800) and Colorado platforms respectively, but both the H2 and H3 are quite capable offroad, much more so than their platform mates

My H2 seems to get through 18-20 inches of snow without any problems and busts right through 48 inch drifts just fine. You just have to manage your way through the maze of other stalled 4 wheel drive vehicles to get to the particular person you are there to assist. They never seem to have any disdain.

I find it interesting that so many people have emotional opinions of people based on the vehicle they drive. I glad I do not have to waste my time on such endevors.

Okie
 
Doona
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:04 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
Hummers take up so much of the width space on the road. Most of the Hummer owners are more like they think they own the road and that only Hummers should be the only vehicle on them.

Saw a hummer trying to do a u-turn on a city street a few blocks away from my apartment the other day. Not a very wide street to begin with, it was even narrower due to the plough-walls of snow on both sides. Suffice it to say, the hummer ended up not being able to turn around, and, to my delight, was unable to turn back to the original direction. Lot of pissed drivers, who all had to back up. Not a single person offered to help either, which might be a little harsh, but the idiot shouldn't have been trying to do a u-turn in the middle of a street anyway...

Quoting bhill (Reply 9):
For the same reason we were pissed over the bonuses handed out to the financial Oligarchs this last year...They are gauche...nothing wrong with being confident, but I think the days of "Fxxk You I got mine" are gone.

Reminds me of one of the GTA 3 radio commercials, for the Maibatsu Monstrosity SUV. "Maibatsu: Because mine's bigger".   

Cheers
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Go3Team
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:24 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):

I cannot count how many times a Hummer nearly ran me off the road, especially on Pena Blvd at DEN.

What about school busses, garbage trucks, ambulances, and firetrucks?

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
Apart from being f***ugly, to me it's the ultimate symbol of material excess

Who cares about how much someone spent on a Hummer?
Yay Pudding!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:47 am

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):

Apart from being f***ugly, to me it's the ultimate symbol of material excess. I can't tell you how many people I know that drive them and don't need them. Should they have a right to drive them? Sure. But I have the right to laugh at them for it. I just think they're incredibly ugly, and everytime I see one I can't help but think "sorry about your penis."

The material excess cheese me off a bit, but the sheer impracticality of it is what really gets me. Here we have an enormous, difficult-to-drive vehicle with comparatively little interior space. It was designed as a military vehicle that could go over unprepared regions and could basically traverse almost everything a tank could. For that purpose, it is fantastic, I'm sure. But as a car meant to drive on the roads and get you to work, the gym, the store, pick up the kids, drop off the kids it makes no sense. It offers gigantic blind spots, it's susceptible to winds, it consumes fuel like Ron White consumes booze, and it offers nothing that a smaller SUV doesn't offer except for the fact that you can drive a hummer over some sorts of terrain that most SUV's can't handle. I'd say that fewer than 1% of Hummer drivers use it for such terrain.

So yeah, it's just flashiness. But it's also a free country, so if you want to have one, get one.
-Doc Lightning-

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AirframeAS
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:17 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Also, what about RV, which are often far larger than a Hummer.

RV's are not driven as an everyday vehicle. Not a very good comparison, BMI.

Quoting flanker (Reply 10):
It is not my business what other people pick to drive, nor should it be any of yours either.

It will become my business when a Hummer totals my car, especially with a woman in it! Some people just cannot drive, I tell ya!   

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 16):
What about school busses, garbage trucks, ambulances, and firetrucks?

All of those have a purpose and is doing a job while for hire. Again, bad comparison. But those people who drive those vehicles KNOW how to drive, thankfully.
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flanker
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:23 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
So why so many pics of Hummers getting fingered? Does it have something to do with Prius drivers?
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
It will become my business when a Hummer totals my car, especially with a woman in it! Some people just cannot drive, I tell ya!  

lol.. i gotta tell that one to my gf.. good stuff.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
 
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N328KF
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:49 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
The Wranger could probably do as good or better an H2 off road, but falls short on creature comforts.

Historically, some of the bigger Jeeps did well off-road also, and were a lot more comfortable. Then, of course, there's the Land Rover. The VW Touareg has also done well. Just look at what the Touareg has accomplished in the DARPA Grand Challenge and Dakar Rally.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Here we have an enormous, difficult-to-drive vehicle with comparatively little interior space. It was designed as a military vehicle that could go over unprepared regions and could basically traverse almost everything a tank could.

You're talking about the H1, which hasn't been for sale on the civil market for years. The recent attempt at selling the Hummer brand mainly revolved around the H2 and H3, and that's what most of the rest of us were discussing. The H1 technology would remain with MacAndrews & Forbes.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
gatorfan
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:59 am

I'm surprised that Summer's Eve didn't enter into a sponsorship deal with Hummer because very person I've ever seen driving one is a douche.
 
fbgdavidson
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:51 am

I think Hummer H2s and H3s are rubbish because they are designed and sold as status symbols, however, they're ugly, don't perform well off road, are unreliable, closely related to platforms that aren't any good on their own!

The H2 is a Chevy Tahoe with a faux macho body. The H3 is based on a pick-up truck! People pay a premium for garbage...and look like a douche at the same time. I worked with a guy who had an H3 and he gave me a ride somewhere once, I asked if he had a paper bag I could put over my head so nobody could see me in it.

The H1, as far as I know, is very closely to related to the HMMWV which is a great and very capable vehicle. It's a shame that GM bought the rights and sold garbage vehicles under the auspices they were somehow related to the military. A few years ago I was on my way home from work and needed to pop into the local grocery store to get a few things. On my way back to the car I see a bright yellow Hummer H2 parked next to my car. A guy of about 40yrs old in army uniform approached the Hummer, the only thing in the parking lot in the direction he was walking. Politely I said to him in my British accent, 'Being in the Army I'm surprised you didn't get the H1'. He smiled and said, 'Oh no, I'm not in the army at all. I just wear the uniform to go with the car, they drive these in the military over here'. Says it all really...
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StuckInCA
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:25 am

Hummer H1 Curb weight 7608 lb.

Landcruiser curb weight 5390.

etc. It weighs as much as a Landcruiser and another car together. I had a neighbor whose high school kid drove himself to school in one everyday. One kid. In an H1.

Every Hummer other than the H1 was a compromise between being a "real" hummer and being a realistic street vehicle. The H1 has no business on the road. In fact, at that weight it is illegal on many roads.
 
Okie
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:29 am

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 22):
I think Hummer H2s and H3s are rubbish because they are designed and sold as status symbols, however, they're ugly, don't perform well off road, are unreliable, closely related to platforms that aren't any good on their own!

The H2 performs above and beyond off road, maybe you should do a little research.
Reliable? I have never had any problems. Gas, Oil, Filters and Tires.

Planning on buying a 2nd one before the selection runs out. The new ones have the Obama, Pelosi, & Reid 100K mile warranty covered by the taxpayer, thank you all.

Quoting Springbok747 (Thread starter):
Does it have something to do with Prius drivers?

I have never had any problems with Prius drivers.

The only problem I have with Prius is they occasionally get struck in the fenderwells of my H2 and I have to carry a stick to dislodge them. 

Okie
 
Superfly
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:45 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
Hummers take up so much of the width space on the road. Most of the Hummer owners are more like they think they own the road and that only Hummers should be the only vehicle on them.

Same for the Lexus LX470, LX550, Infiniti QX56, Mercedes G-class, Range Rover, etc....
Let's be consistent.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
IMO, Hummers belong on off-road tails, not on the paved surfaces on a daily basis.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
They are a totally different pack, however they are the slowest of the bunch.

NO!   
The best vehicle for that would be the smaller Jeep Wrangler.
For large SUV with off-read capability, I'd rather go with the Ford Excursion. It's based on a much more ridged frame and came with an available diesel engine.

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
Apart from being f***ugly, to me it's the ultimate symbol of material excess. I can't tell you how many people I know that drive them and don't need them. Should they have a right to drive them? Sure. But I have the right to laugh at them for it. I just think they're incredibly ugly,

I agree with you up until this part; "I can't help but think "sorry about your penis."
Most people I see driving them are women.



Just because someone likes things that are big doesn't mean they have a small penis.

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
Typically the people I know that drive them are arrogant, self-righteous windbags
Same for Toyota Prius owners.
the only exception being DocLightning 
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Exactly. It is their car, and they are paying to put gas in it. If you don't want to pay that much for fuel, the solution is so simple even the greenies can understand it. Don't buy a Hummer!

  
AMEN!

Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
My problem with the Hummer is that it's not good at anything that it purports to do. It's not good at going off-road. It's not good at hauling things internally— a minivan or station wagon is better. It's not stylish.

My thoughts exactly.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Alias1024
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:07 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
Most people I see driving them are women.

Maybe that explains my biggest gripe about the H2 and H3. There's no other vehicle on the road with such consistently bad drivers.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:13 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
NO!   

YES!    Hummers were originally built for the military and were off-road vehicles and they should remain as such. The H2 and H3 are not even Hummers... not even CLOSE to being one at all.

And Prius the cars should belong in the go-cart rides at the carnival!    Oh, its a lunchbox, too!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
baroque
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:21 pm

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
Apart from being f***ugly, to me it's the ultimate symbol of material excess.

Part of the answer is at
http://www.peakoil.net/
But heck, burning more petroleum than you need to is fun. Just wish they would would make it more expensive. Then we might see how funny it really is.
 
Okie
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:07 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 28):
But heck, burning more petroleum than you need to is fun.

My H2 gets 3 more mpg than my 3/4 ton pick up and is a heck of a lot smaller.

I bought one of the electric cars for $9,000 last year, took the $4,500 federal tax credit and the $4,500 state tax credit. Then I donated it to a charity for a fund raiser and took another $9,000 write off. I like this new administration.




Okie

PS. not really but you see how insane our tax laws are getting and the unintended consequences.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:38 pm

I think that most people who equate driving a Hummer (talking H2, here) to male insecurity probably have their own insecurities, real or subconcious. Others don't like the styling or bitch about the function which is none of their business. Styling is a matter of personal taste and function is a matter of personal requirements and cost is a matter of personal finances. So bug out, I say.

No I don't own or want to own an H2, but have driven a friend's unit which I though was quite capable in local off-road meanderings and had less trouble parking in local Home Depot lot than my Silverado.

Hell, I haven't liked the styling of any recent model Prius or Mercedes sedan, and have no requirements for either end of the spectrum but I don't bitch about the people that want, need or drive them. Regards...jack
all best; jack
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:54 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
The best vehicle for that would be the smaller Jeep Wrangler.

Or even better a Land Rover Defender, or Land Cruiser 70 Series, another really good offroader is the Suzuki Jimny, the little buggers can get into some places where bigger 4WD's fear to tread.

An forrestry contractor in NZ bought a small fleet of H1's a few years back, they were good on the forrestry roads but too wide for the smaller tracks, they lasted about two years before being replaced with the Land Cruiser 70 series.

I went on a 4WD course when I was selling Land Rovers, we drove pretty much everything on sale in NZ at the time, some were really surprising like the Porsche Cayenne and VW Toureg, the best off road was the Defender, 70 series and Range Rover.
 
Superfly
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:57 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
Hummers were originally built for the military and were off-road vehicles and they should remain as such. The H2 and H3 are not even Hummers... not even CLOSE to being one at all.

I wasn't talking about the H1.
Bring back the Concorde
 
BMI727
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:01 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
RV's are not driven as an everyday vehicle. Not a very good comparison, BMI.

It is perfectly valid. If you complain about Hummers because they are large and the drivers are not trained in how to drive them, then you should also have the same complaints about RVs, which are even larger.

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 22):
don't perform well off road,

People should really stop saying this, because it just isn't true.

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 22):

The H2 is a Chevy Tahoe with a faux macho body. The H3 is based on a pick-up truck!

They are much more than that. It was one of the conditions of the H2. AM General wanted to go ahead and work with GM on the H2, but they stipulated that it had to be a real Hummer and do all of the things that a Hummer should. They were willing to build something less capable, but they were not going to allow the Hummer name to be put on it.

As the H2 was being brought out the engineers did a test. They took the H2 and a Chevy Suburban around an off road course at the Hummer facility. At the end of the test they washed off the vehicles. The H2 looked just as it had before, while the Suburban suffered several hundred dollars worth of damage.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
came with an available diesel engine.

I think that the H2 should have a diesel engine as an option.
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ShyFlyer
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:01 pm

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
Invariably, they swing over to the left side of their lane (or even a tiny bit into my lane) before making the turn.

I see that behavior a lot, and it isn't limited to Hummers.


Even though I'm an unapologetic SUV owner, I too just don't get the desire to own a Hummer. It's probably due to many of the owners I've come across who just seem to have a need to bring attention to themselves. "Hey, look at me, I'm (or my husband/whatever is) a 'Billy Badass!" But, whatever. I don't have to foot the bill for it, so I just move on with my life.

That said, I also get a kick out of how some people squeal every time they see one. "OMG!! Why do you need such a big truck! Look at me, I drive a (insert eco box here). I'm saving a penguin. You big brute! You suck! You're only hauling golf clubs in that monster? You're killing all of us!!"   

It's all quite comical.
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:19 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 33):
They were willing to build something less capable, but they were not going to allow the Hummer name to be put on it.

I call BS on this one. GM had 100% control over the Hummer brand (MacAndrews & Forbes, the owner of the AM General brand, sold it to GM years ago), and they controlled the sales and support network. GM also had enough factories that they didn't need MA&F to build the H2 in South Bend, and just to back that up, the H3 was built in a GM plant.

The H1 is the only product that MA&F had any semblance of control over.
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BMI727
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:25 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 35):
GM had 100% control over the Hummer brand (MacAndrews & Forbes, the owner of the AM General brand, sold it to GM years ago)

The Hummer brand name was sold to GM before the launch of the H2. But as discussions about the potential H2 progressed, GM wanted to make sure that they owned the brand while AM General wanted to ensure that the resulting vehicle was a real Hummer, and not a warmed over Suburban. Their stance was that they would be more than happy to build a Suburban variant for GM, but they wouldn't allow the Hummer name to be put on it.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 35):
H3 was built in a GM plant.

That is true, I was talking mostly about the H2, but the H3 is not as capable as its stablemates in the Hummer lineup, but is certainly not a badge engineering job.
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:40 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
The Hummer H1 was directly based on the military HMMWV off road truck, while the later H2 and H3 are based on civilian vehicle (IIRC the Suburban), which were not designed for heavy offroad work and only share a similarity in the bodywork.

You can hate the H2 and H3 and its drivers all you want but to say that the H2 and H3 are not capable off-road is just a blatantly mis-informed statement.

I have off-roaded with plenty of guys with H2s and H3s and they are plenty capable vehicles.

What you are confusing is the weight and size of the H2 which prevents it from going into certain terrain, but not every terrain is a rocky trail with tight spaces in the woods.

You have to ask yourself where you are going:

-Woods
-Rocky Trail
-Desert/Sand Pit
-Swamp
-Creek/River Fording
-Snow/Ice trail

You always sacrifice something with a design, the if you want to be the most versatile there really isnt anything on the market today that can handle everything. Theres really only 5 or so cars out there that are when modified approprietly universally good in any off-road task.

-Jeep TJ/YJ/CJ-* with a AMC flat 6 and swapped axles.
-Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ with a 5.2/5.9 Magnum, HD NV xcase, swapped Dana's. Possibly a Jeep XJ with the AMC 6 and swapped axles and Dana 300 Spicer.
-Toyota FJ40/45/55 with an engine swap, and swapped inner axles
-ToyotaLand Cruiser 70 with an non-OEM engine swap and fortified steering
-Land Rover Defender with a swapped rear axle, steering linkage and several other things.

Anything else is compromise somewhere, but that being said a H3 is a plenty capable off-roader in alot of situations, and so is the H2. Certainly alot more than a VW Touareg which is nothing but a crossver (and is officially rated as such by the NHTSA/DOT) as it has a IFS and IRS (and dont even bring the H1 argument), cant put lockers or even do a relatively easy axle swap on it if you wanted to and that automatically makes it inferior in 50% of terrain and mostly anything outside of a desert and easy wood trails that dont demand side to side heavy locking.

BTW, the H1/HMMWV is made for high speed assault that is geared towards the desert and open fields with rivers/streams. Its certainly not a universally capable off-roader for all kinds of terrain and it wasnt made with that in mind.

To KiwiRob: I dont know why anyone would buy an H1 for a forest, thats just plain stupid. Its like buying a VW Touareg for Moab, Utah. Complete destruction within 10 seconds.

[Edited 2010-02-26 10:45:27]
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:43 pm

Quoting flanker (Reply 10):
I don't hate Hummers. and if you can afford to drive one then more power to you.

Yep. But learn to drive properly!

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 34):
I see that behavior a lot, and it isn't limited to Hummers

That's why I said:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 5):
My major problem with people who drive SUVs and such
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:03 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Not Prius drivers specifically, but the ecotards in general.

Forget the ecotards - when the price of petrol went through the roof the Hummer (and other large SUVs) looked like dumbmobiles. I don't think Hummer ever recovered from that spike.

Big cars & SUVs can have a place in the country where ranchers and farmers drive a lot on the highways. Same for people who travel between cities a lot.

And some cars, vans and SUVs have a place for those who have physical problems getting in and out. I'm reminded of that every time I get in or our of my wife's MX-3.  
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:07 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 33):
It is perfectly valid. If you complain about Hummers because they are large and the drivers are not trained in how to drive them, then you should also have the same complaints about RVs, which are even larger.

No, it is not...far, far from it still! RV's are not driven to and from work, grocery store, taking kids to soccer, etc etc on a daily basis. You can argue your point about this all day, but you're still incorrect.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 32):
I wasn't talking about the H1.

I was talking about comparing all of the Hummers or should we say "Hummer-wanna-be's"
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BMI727
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:08 pm

Quoting ken777 (Reply 39):
when the price of petrol went through the roof the Hummer (and other large SUVs) looked like dumbmobiles. I don't think Hummer ever recovered from that spike.

If you don't want to pay for the gas drive something else. Some people didn't want to pay to fill their H2 and got something else, but I don't think that those who didn't do that could be called dumb. They decided what they wanted to spend their money on and that is what they did. They weren't spending your money or mine.
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:21 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
To KiwiRob: I dont know why anyone would buy an H1 for a forest, thats just plain stupid. Its like buying a VW Touareg for Moab, Utah. Complete destruction within 10 seconds.

What are you talking about? I dunno about Moab, specifically, but the Touareg is pretty well-known for its ability to run off-road. Stanford ran one bone-stock (except for the driver   across the desert and it won the DARPA Grand Challenge. It's been run in other events, too. There are many yuppiemobiles that can't go off-road, but you picked a bad example.
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:34 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 26):
There's no other vehicle on the road with such consistently bad drivers.

You should come to Florida then and see all the old folks in their Lincolns and Buicks.   

The motorcycle drivers down here are pretty bad too. If you want to talk about people who think they own the road - that's your target group right here.

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
Apart from being f***ugly, to me it's the ultimate symbol of material excess.

But the truth of the matter is that I know so many that don't

Translation: "I'm jealous I don't have the bank account to afford one or something of the equivalent price".

How is spending extra money on a bigger car than what I need any different than spending extra money on other possessions I don't really "need". Do you have excess space in your house? Or is every cubic inch of volume occupied? I don't "need" my 1:400 scale aircraft collection of close to 40 planes on my dresser - but I have it because I want it. I don't need Bengals season tickets. I can watch the game on tv. But I will be getting Bengals season tickets once I move up to Ohio. My parents didn't need a 48" LCD tv - a 36" or whatever would have sufficed. But so long as the person who is buying it can afford it why is it any of your business how they spend their income?

I think they're ugly as all hell too, and the only way I'd want one is if it came with a .50 Cal machine gun on the roof. But I doubt that's going to happen so I don't really want one.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Material excess is wonderful it you can afford it.

  

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 40):
No, it is not...far, far from it still! RV's are not driven to and from work, grocery store, taking kids to soccer, etc etc on a daily basis. You can argue your point about this all day, but you're still incorrect.

From a personal safety standpoint, what is wrong with having a large car? If someone plows through a red-light at an intersection and hits you, would you rather be in A) a Hummer or B) a little Prius? I don't know what percentage of people actually consider that when they buy a Hummer, but it would be a factor for me if I ever did decide to buy one (all joking about the .50 Cal machine gun on the roof aside    ).
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:39 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
another really good offroader is the Suzuki Jimny, the little buggers can get into some places where bigger 4WD's fear to tread.

I´d prefer the predecessor Suzuki Samurai or SJ413 to the Jimny (I used to drive one for several years). They seem to be tougher and mechanically simpler (easier to fix in the field if necessary).

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
You always sacrifice something with a design, the if you want to be the most versatile there really isnt anything on the market today that can handle everything. Theres really only 5 or so cars out there that are when modified approprietly universally good in any off-road task.

-Jeep TJ/YJ/CJ-* with a AMC flat 6 and swapped axles.
-Jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ with a 5.2/5.9 Magnum, HD NV xcase, swapped Dana's. Possibly a Jeep XJ with the AMC 6 and swapped axles and Dana 300 Spicer.
-Toyota FJ40/45/55 with an engine swap, and swapped inner axles
-ToyotaLand Cruiser 70 with an non-OEM engine swap and fortified steering
-Land Rover Defender with a swapped rear axle, steering linkage and several other things.

I forgot to mention the Jeep Wrangler in my list of true offroad vehicles.
The Mercedes G series (actually they were designed in Austria by Steyr, Daimler Benz bought the design), at least in the military "Wolf" version is also quite capable.

For myself, I drive a 1987 Land Rover 110 (the model which later got renamed into "Defender") with the 200TDI turbo diesel engine (considered trhe best engine ever made by Land Rover, very durable and at the same time economical) of the 1993 model. I use the standard axles (the 110 comes with the heavy duty Salisbury rear axle, the shorter "90" has a lighter duty Land Rover rear axle). I don´t have differential locks installed in the axle differential gears, but have one in the central differential gear. I use coarse threaded mud terrain tyres the whole year through.
This winter I was very happy to have my truck, because I could get through snowdrifts (I live in the rural Hunsrück region of Germany, up in the hills, where it often gets very snowy), where other cars and trucks got stuck (though once I tried to shortcut across a field around a semi, which got stuck and blocked the road) and ended up in a 4 feet deep snowdrift of loose snow. My truck sank into the snow down to the frame, so that I had to spend 2 hours to dig it out with an entrenching tool.

Jan
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AirframeAS
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:53 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
If someone plows through a red-light at an intersection and hits you, would you rather be in A) a Hummer or B) a little Prius?

Thankfully, I don't drive a Prius at all and never will. Now if a Hummer with a woman in it plows through a red-light intersection and hit me and I survived, my attorney would be doing a happy dance....   

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 43):
I don't know what percentage of people actually consider that when they buy a Hummer, but it would be a factor for me if I ever did decide to buy one

I would never buy a Hummer or SUV for any reason whatsoever. I am not of those "Wow! Look at me!" attention whores.
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Springbok747
Topic Author
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:02 pm

Cool..thanks for all the replies..I didn't check this thread yesterday..was caught up with stuff.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
Suzuki Jimny, the little buggers can get into some places where bigger 4WD's fear to tread.

If you watch series 14 of Top gear, the episode where they go to Bolivia, May actually brings a Jimny, and I was very impressed at how it performed..it is a very capable little off-roader!

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 44):
The Mercedes G series (actually they were designed in Austria by Steyr, Daimler Benz bought the design), at least in the military "Wolf" version is also quite capable.

Yeah. The G series seems to be a capable off-roader too. My neighbour had one (he got one from the UK, Mercedes don't sell the car here), and I used to see him every weekend heading off to some remote place (fishing or hunting trips) and the amount of stuff he used to carry in his G was just amazing..he also praised it as a very good off-road car.
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:21 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 42):
What are you talking about? I dunno about Moab, specifically, but the Touareg is pretty well-known for its ability to run off-road. Stanford ran one bone-stock (except for the driver across the desert and it won the DARPA Grand Challenge. It's been run in other events, too. There are many yuppiemobiles that can't go off-road, but you picked a bad example.

Did you read what I wrote?

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 37):
mostly anything outside of a desert and easy wood trails that dont demand side to side heavy locking.

Dont joke around that a Touareg would even attempt 90% of hardcore off-road terrain. It doesnt have the suspension to even handle intermediate terrain. You need heavy duty axles (read Toyota HD, Dana 44+ or Ford, Dodge, Chevy full size front and rear ends), you need a decent lift, swapped MT tires, Boggers etc, and a fortified xcase. The electronics and suspension (and the ever nonreliable air suspension) in the Touareg alone make it handicapped from the start,

It doesn't even come with front tow hooks and you're talking about it going into a swamp. Youd rip the whole front end of a Touareg trying to winch it out.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 44):
I don´t have differential locks installed in the axle differential gears, but have one in the central differential gear.

The T-Case with low-range = center diff lock..

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 44):
My truck sank into the snow down to the frame, so that I had to spend 2 hours to dig it out with an entrenching tool.

Need a winch 
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:44 pm

LOT767-300ER,

You´d be surprised what terrain an old 1970s Volkswagen van can handle. When I was a boy my family did quite a few trips to remote places in Spain, Portugal, Scotland and the Morroccan Sahara desert with one (my dad was a geologist / palaeontologist and when we were still small and didn´t have to go to school yet he took us on his field trips).

BTW, what do you think about the Polish Honker Tarpan? I was considering to buy one, but they are virtually unknown in Germany and I suspect that I would have had a hard time getting spares.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Starbuk7
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RE: Hummer - Why All The Hate?

Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:02 pm

OK, I have seen plenty of drivers in everything from a prius to a SUV to a Hummer to a mini-van of which they shouldn't have a license because they really can not drive in their own lane.

With that aside, I drive a Dodge Ram 1500 quad cab because I "WANT" to. If I go to Home Depot and want to buy things for the house I can fit it all in there without renting one of their trucks. And I have seen people in the parking lot there trying to load their purchases in their "little tiny cars" and it not fitting.

My wife drives a yellow H3 because she "WANTS" to. And she is a pretty good driver and only goes 10 mile to work and back 5 days a week with it. The car makes her happy and that is allright by me.!!!!!!

I finally got to a point in my life where I can afford these vehicles and by god if I am willing to pay for the gas and the upkeep I really do not care what anyone else thinks, cause I know what they think is their business and most probably wrong.

I am really getting frustrated with people trying to tell me what I can and can not do in my FREE country.

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