mirrodie
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Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:21 pm

I posted something the same exact question a few months ago but regarding GM.

Now that Toyota, a brand known for reliability, is taking a huge hit, make a case why one shouldn't buy Toyota.

Prices should be coming down by now for most new Toyotas. Is that enough for people to stick with them? These recalls as well as the government oversight into the issue....is that enough to steer you away?

Discuss.
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Cadet57
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:30 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Thread starter):
ake a case why one shouldn't buy Toyota.

They lied to their customers by telling them that their cars were safe while people were dying.

Their "solution" to the floormat issue is to remove the floormats   

They failed to enact a recall and was pretty much forced to by the Feds.

They didn't want to issue a recall so as to save money by not having to fix cars.
.
Their supposed "fix" for accelerator issues may not have actually solved anything.

More and more stories are coming out about various other issues with their cars

They make ugly, boring, bland and over-hyped (read Prius) cars.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:37 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Thread starter):
why one shouldn't buy Toyota

Right off the bat.

1. There seems to be conflicting information regarding whether the current recall repairs will completely solve the problem(s).

2. Several models (not just one or two) have the same recall issue(s).

3. The nature of the recalled items are ALL safety-related.

Personal note: I have never owned nor bought a Toyota in the past nor planned on buying one before so the recent recall info. would NOT further sway my preference one iota.

I've only bought domestics (Ford, Chevy, Mercury).
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
mbmbos
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:40 pm

If I were in the market for a car right now, yes, I would head down to the local Toyota dealership and find myself a deal. Toyotas score very high in Consumer Reports' performance and reliability tests. Reliability and safety are the two top priorities in any car purchasing decision I make.

Although the recalls are unfortunate and the corporation's handling of the situation has been abysmal, it's a problem that has affected very few people adversely. The media loves to run with a drama and they've certainly done so in this situation.

I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing a new Toyota.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:56 pm

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 3):
Toyotas score very high in Consumer Reports' performance and reliability tests.

Those ratings were published BEFORE the crud hit the fan.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 3):
Reliability and safety are the two top priorities in any car purchasing decision I make.

Fair enough, but I've known several people that went from American vehicles to imports (due to issues w/the domestics), encountered similar if not more issues/problems but still view imports (usually Toyota and Honda) as they can do no wrong.

Side note: In the past, Consumer Reports has had a history of giving glowing reviews of a Japanese brand while condemning a rival domestic brand even when the 2 vehicles tested in question either share the same components and/or roll out of the same factory.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 3):
Although the recalls are unfortunate and the corporation's handling of the situation has been abysmal

   That's an understatement for sure.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 3):
it's a problem that has affected very few people adversely.

34 known deaths out of 6 to 8 year period, though small; isn't exactly something to brush off lightly.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
BMI727
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:58 pm

Quoting mirrodie (Thread starter):
make a case why one shouldn't buy Toyota.

I really wouldn't try and steer you away, especially if the price is right. Worst case scenario is that the car kills you and your family members become millionaires.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
NIKV69
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:59 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
They lied to their customers by telling them that their cars were safe while people were dying.

Their "solution" to the floormat issue is to remove the floormats

They failed to enact a recall and was pretty much forced to by the Feds.

They didn't want to issue a recall so as to save money by not having to fix cars.
.
Their supposed "fix" for accelerator issues may not have actually solved anything.

More and more stories are coming out about various other issues with their cars

They make ugly, boring, bland and over-hyped (read Prius) cars

Justin is pretty much spot on here. They erred badly and for at least two model years how would you know the car you are driving doesn't have something that can be an issue? Buy a Nissan!
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Cadet57
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:17 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Buy a Nissan!

   C'mon Nick really, a Nissan?  
Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 3):
Reliability and safety are the two top priorities in any car purchasing decision I make.

Hey, long as you overlook the fact the accelerator sticks and the floormats jam. They're safe as hell!

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 3):
Although the recalls are unfortunate and the corporation's handling of the situation has been abysmal, it's a problem that has affected very few people adversely.

You know 2/3 of Toyotas US cars are recalled right?

[Edited 2010-03-01 09:22:10]
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Flighty
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:33 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
They make ugly, boring, bland and over-hyped (read Prius) cars.

I agree with this.

But if you are attracted to Toyotas, there is absolutely no safety reason we have yet heard. There is a tremendous amount of noise in the entertainment media community regarding Toyota. I think this has nothing to do with Toyota cars and trucks. Instead it's about human emotions and a desire for a spectacle. Toyota has unwillingly become part of our Roman Coliseum where we like to kill things and watch them suffer.

But Toyota doesn't deserve it. Every consumer goods company engages in risk management. You can't recall out every flaw. This is one of the most minor safety problems (killing arguably, 3 persons per year) that has ever been highlighted publicly. I have never been less worried about a potential safety problem. Gladly get into a Toyota. Or believe the circus. It's up to you.
 
NIKV69
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:34 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
Hey, long as you overlook the fact the accelerator sticks and the floormats jam. They're safe as hell!

Don't forget about the brakes

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
C'mon Nick really, a Nissan

Yep great car.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:37 pm

Recalls or not I still loathe Toyota, and every other Asian brand out there for that matter. Though I will say I do respect Mazda.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
They make ugly, boring, bland and over-hyped (read Prius) cars.

That sums up pretty much every Asian brand out there.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:32 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
and every other Asian brand out there for that matter.

Agreed. But Id still LOVE one of these:

http://www.lawandmore.co.uk/static/images/decembervanessa/nissan_gtr.jpg

Yes Nick, its a Nissan ;

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
there is absolutely no safety reason we have yet heard.

You're joking right? Lets see, Prius brake failures, possible accelerators sticking in 2/3 of Toyotas Models, floor mats that can jam accelerator pedals leading to crashes like the one that killed a CA family when their Lexus crashed and bust into flames.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
You can't recall out every flaw.

Sure you can. There are 2 outstanding on my car right now. One because in rare cases the switch for the heated seats can get stuck in position and another for coil packs that fail after about 30k. Neither are for safety reasons and both are almost enough to ignore. Tell ya what. Id rather have a car company tell me about things that COULD go wrong then have them lie to us and let their customers die while driving their products. Toyota deserves everything they get.

[Edited 2010-03-01 10:35:37]
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:40 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
But Id still LOVE one of these:

Bleh. Sure, it's an amazing engineering achievement, but it wouldn't be so good if you unplugged all of the computer driving aids...

For about the same price I rather have one of these:

http://intokj.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/atom_500_v8.jpg

or

http://gearpatrol.com/images/caterham.r500.jpg

Sure, they would suck as daily drivers, but that's pure unadulterated driving pleasure right there.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:47 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 7):
Hey, long as you overlook the fact the accelerator sticks and the floormats jam. They're safe as hell!

Don't forget about the brakes

And the steering (Corolla). 
Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
But if you are attracted to Toyotas, there is absolutely no safety reason we have yet heard.

Sudden accelerations (due to either sticky floor mats and/or faulty accelerator pedals) that have caused crashes that have supposedly killed an estimated 34 people NOT a safety issue?????

http://www.pjstar.com/business/x6260...ied-to-Toyota-accelerator-problems

Opening Exerpt (article dated Feb. 15, 2010):

WASHNGTON, D.C. — The government has received new complaints that bring to 34 the total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden acceleration since 2000, according to government data posted Monday.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
There is a tremendous amount of noise in the entertainment media community regarding Toyota. I think this has nothing to do with Toyota cars and trucks. Instead it's about human emotions and a desire for a spectacle. Toyota has unwillingly become part of our Roman Coliseum where we like to kill things and watch them suffer.

Replace Toyota in your above-sentences with either GM, Ford and/or Chrysler and would you still feel the same way?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Flighty
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:06 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
Id rather have a car company tell me about things that COULD go wrong then have them lie to us and let their customers die while driving their products.

Then you shouldn't drive any car. Every new car goes bad in the end. Every car eventually rusts, and can have failures that kill. Car companies know this.

Toyota had a very small problem. Actually, like every company, they have many small problems. One or two of them were picked up by the entertainment channels such as CNN and ABC. Now we are led to believe something is really wrong, big time! Because the television employees want to sell toilet paper and hamburger helper.

If we are so panicky about Toyotas, then we certainly should not drive. Any car. They are all dangerous. And, we should never, ever eat red meat. It's very dangerous and it can kill. Many companies know this as well. How many people die from red meat? A lot more than 3 per year.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 13):
Replace Toyota in your above-sentences with either GM, Ford and/or Chrysler and would you still feel the same way?

In terms of safety, yes of course. But not financially. Toyota is not asking for a $60B handout. They are not that kind of ultra loser company.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 13):
34 the total number of alleged deaths in Toyota vehicles due to sudden acceleration since 2000,

Exactly, 3 per year. That's far from alarming.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:19 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
But not financially. Toyota is not asking for a $60B handout. They are not that kind of ultra loser company.

Actually, Toyota DID get a financial bailout of sorts last year... from Japan. Granted, it's not as large as what GM and Chrysler got (which I was opposed to them getting BTW, they should've just filed for Chapter 11 to shrug off the legacy costs), but it was the first time in roughly 50 years that they posted an overall sales LOSS. This didn't exactly get too much press in the U.S.... gee I wonder why?

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...ntent/mar2009/gb2009033_969062.htm

Exerpt:

According to reports in Japan's local media, Toyota is in talks to borrow a little over $2 billion from the state-backed Japan Bank for International Cooperation (JBIC) to secure funds for its U.S. operations. Toyota, which expects to lose $3.9 billion this year, through a spokesman confirmed it is discussing the loan, but declined to discuss the details. If Toyota does reach a deal, it will be the first Japanese automaker to apply for assistance from the new emergency fund, which is tapping $5 billion from the Japanese government this month to lend to Japanese corporations that operate internationally.

But Toyota is just the latest Japanese automaker to ask for government assistance. Last month, Nissan (NSANY) and Mitsubishi Motors both signaled their intent to ask for loans from the Development Bank of Japan. Meanwhile, Toyota's European arm is planning to request funding from the European Investment Bank to finance research and development into clean technologies.


Another article stating similar:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C504055%2C00.html

Exerpts:

Toyota Motor Corp. said no details had been decided. Kyodo News and NHK-TV reported earlier in the day, without identifying sources, that Toyota’s auto loan unit, Toyota Financial Services, had asked for a $2 billion government loan.
...
Toyota’s projected red ink for the fiscal year through March would mark its first such annual net loss since 1950, and a sharp contrast from the record $1.7 billion profit it racked up the previous year.


Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Exactly, 3 per year. That's far from alarming.

Unless, if one of those 3 per year were somebody that you either knew or was a family member; I believe you'd be stating differently.

[Edited 2010-03-01 11:33:19]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:30 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 12):

For about the same price I rather have one of these:

That's the Atom 500, it'll set you back an estimated 160,000 USD, you could get several GTR's for the price of one of them.
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:35 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Exactly, 3 per year. That's far from alarming.

Even more tiny when you consider 42,000 +/- Americans die every year in auto accidents. That's an increase in mortality rate of .0000714.

For me if there was a Toyota I had my eye on I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. However, lots of families look at auto as transportation and usually look at 2 or 3 other makes/models to purchase and then do a cost - benefit ratio on each of their final cars they like. For some the brake deal will be a deal killer at any price, and others just one factor on the "con" side of the equation for them to consider against the other "pros" and "cons" of their other car selections.

It is a kink in Toyota's armor to be sure and die hard Toyota owners who might ordinarily not even bother to look at anything other than a Toyota at replacement time will probably now do so. But I do think Toyota is getting a bum wrap from the American media simply because it is a foreign owned corporation.
 
mrocktor
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:53 pm

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 17):
Even more tiny when you consider 42,000 +/- Americans die every year in auto accidents.

Even more when you consider several of those "sudden acceleration" cases are probably just families of unlucky drivers trying to score off Toyota's burned image. For all we know they were wearing flip-flops or high heels and got their gas pedal stuck all by themselves. Its not like we have NTSB investigations for car accidents.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:56 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
That's the Atom 500, it'll set you back an estimated 160,000 USD, you could get several GTR's for the price of one of them.

I know. That's just the first picture I found of an Atom. The base starts at 65k.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:07 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
In terms of safety, yes of course.

You still think Toyota builds a safe car?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
But not financially. Toyota is not asking for a $60B handout. They are not that kind of ultra loser company.

Irrelevant. GM was not lying to their customers while people were dying.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Exactly, 3 per year. That's far from alarming.

So thats how you justify unnecessary deaths? How many more will die by the end of all of Toyotas problems?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Every new car goes bad in the end.

Keywords "IN THE END" These are NEW cars that are killing people. Hell, my car has 98,000 miles is it time for it to kill me?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Every car eventually rusts, and can have failures that kill. Car companies know this.

Stop justifying Toyotas faults. We're not talking about rust.
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lowrider
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:51 pm

If I was in the market and determined that Toyota fit what I was looking for, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one tomorrow. The toughest question for me would be a club cab Tacoma or a 4Runner? Granted I have only owned one other, but that was an 84 pickup with a diesel that went for over 300k miles before signifcant problems crept in.
Proud OOTSK member
 
TheCol
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:38 pm

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 3):
Although the recalls are unfortunate and the corporation's handling of the situation has been abysmal, it's a problem that has affected very few people adversely.

You would still be playing Russian Roulette until all the safety issues are resolved.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
Side note: In the past, Consumer Reports has had a history of giving glowing reviews of a Japanese brand while condemning a rival domestic brand even when the 2 vehicles tested in question either share the same components and/or roll out of the same factory.

I've always suspected that they're being paid off. The best person to get a good review from is your local mechanic. Most will tell you as it is, unless they are employed by a dealership.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Worst case scenario is that the car kills you and your family members become millionaires.

I'd like to see a sales guy use that line. 
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Recalls or not I still loathe Toyota, and every other Asian brand out there for that matter.

  

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
Tell ya what. Id rather have a car company tell me about things that COULD go wrong then have them lie to us and let their customers die while driving their products. Toyota deserves everything they get.

  

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Every car eventually rusts, and can have failures that kill.

Not if you maintain it properly. Since I'm mechanically inapt when it comes to automobiles, I take my car down to the local shop to get it tuned up and the oil changed. My mechanic usually takes it for a spin and checks it over thoroughly. If he thinks anything is or will become an issue, he'll let me know and we will go from there. At the end of the day, on average, it only costs me $85.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
mbmbos
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:52 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 22):
You would still be playing Russian Roulette until all the safety issues are resolved.

I'm playing Russian Roulette every time I step out my front door; actually, every time I step out of my bed.

The odds are greater for me to break my neck stepping out of bed than driving a Toyota that experiences uncommanded acceleration. I am more likely to die from a bee sting than driving a Toyota. I'm more likely to die just from driving on a highway in any old car than driving a Toyota.

Get the picture? The sensational headlines give us a sense of fear that is way out of proportion to the actual destruction these extraordinary events cause. As an audience, we've got to become a whole lot more skeptical and sophisticated when it comes to processing these types of headlines.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:53 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 20):
So thats how you justify unnecessary deaths? How many more will die by the end of all of Toyotas problems?

So... um... are you ever going to fly on an Airbus again?
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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NIKV69
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
So... um... are you ever going to fly on an Airbus again?

I never have and never will.   
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:09 pm

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 23):
The sensational headlines give us a sense of fear that is way out of proportion to the actual destruction these extraordinary events cause. As an audience, we've got to become a whole lot more skeptical and sophisticated when it comes to processing these types of headlines.

I am going to ask you a similar question that I asked Flighty earlier (which he did indeed answered). Had it been GM, Ford and/or Chrysler in this safety recall instead of Toyota; would you still have a similar opinion?
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
mbmbos
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:13 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 26):
I am going to ask you a similar question that I asked Flighty earlier (which he did indeed answered). Had it been GM, Ford and/or Chrysler in this safety recall instead of Toyota; would you still have a similar opinion?

Yes.
 
cptkrell
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:36 pm

As far as "sticking" accelerator pedals go, I should think that Michael Waltrip would want to know how exactly that defect works. He surely needs it with his Toyota race car team.

Seriously, has an electronic defect in the throttle actuation been identified yet? The term "sudden acceleration" is often used. Maybe incorrectly? There's a big difference in "sudden" acceleration and unintended "continual" acceleration (ie: where one would put the accerator down and the car would keep accelerating after letting off the pedal. "Sudden" acceleration means, well, the vehicle accerates suddenly. Not trying to belabor semantics, but what gives??

Would I buy one? No, not interested in the product(s). But if I were interested in a Toyota, I'd probably wait a bit for them to figure out what the problems are even though serious events have been a tiny ratio of the zillions of units they have on the road. Regards...jack

P.S. I saw one of those Nissans (photo, Reply 11) at a local dealership around Christmas time with a sticker of about US $78,000. Pretty steep for a coupe that reminds me of a Datsun 260Z with some California aftermarket fiberglass add-ons.
all best; jack
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:12 pm

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
The term "sudden acceleration" is often used. Maybe incorrectly? There's a big difference in "sudden" acceleration and unintended "continual" acceleration (ie: where one would put the accerator down and the car would keep accelerating after letting off the pedal. "Sudden" acceleration means, well, the vehicle accerates suddenly. Not trying to belabor semantics, but what gives??

You're right. I believe this issue regarding the Toyotas is actually unintended/continual acceleration. I will try to use that in future postings on this subject.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 27):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 26):
I am going to ask you a similar question that I asked Flighty earlier (which he did indeed answered). Had it been GM, Ford and/or Chrysler in this safety recall instead of Toyota; would you still have a similar opinion?

Yes.

Thank you very much for your answer. I was just trying to check for consistency.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:21 pm

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
I never have and never will.

Any DC-9 series aircraft? 737? 747? All have had some issues.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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NIKV69
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:37 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Any DC-9 series aircraft? 737? 747? All have had some issues.

None of which included the tail coming off. Yes I have flown all those.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Flighty
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:47 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 20):
Irrelevant. GM was not lying to their customers while people were dying.

My friend, many tens of thousands of people have died in GM vehicles due to lackluster safety designs and cost cutting. Probably a full city worth of Americans, since the 1930s. Does GM lie about safety problems? Does a bear sh** in the woods...

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 29):
You're right. I believe this issue regarding the Toyotas is actually unintended/continual acceleration. I will try to use that in future postings on this subject.

For what it's worth an old lady I know snapped a throttle cable in her '90 Ford Country Squire wagon. She's a quick thinking lady and killed the engine putting the key in the accessory position. It was not that major an event for her. Did she blame Ford, no. It was an older car, and these things happen. We can't wear diapers all our lives.

Cars have things that go wrong. These Toyotas have a problem but I bet you there are equal problems with every car brand. For example Volvo throttle controllers 1996-2001 go out randomly, disabling a vehicle. In a highway tunnel, this could maybe kill people. It happened to my mom. The company did not redesign the part. Instead they offer replacements. It's chintzy but typical of the industry overall.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 23):
I'm playing Russian Roulette every time I step out my front door; actually, every time I step out of my bed.

Thank you. This is a perspective everybody needs to get a taste of. You can't blame people for everything. To expect perfection from a car company is capricious. When did eveyrbody start doing perfect work? When was that headline?

Quoting TheCol (Reply 22):
My mechanic usually takes it for a spin and checks it over thoroughly. If he thinks anything is or will become an issue, he'll let me know and we will go from there. At the end of the day, on average, it only costs me $85.

That is great. It will definitely keep you a lot safer. A good mechanic is a great safety feature. A safe car in poor repair is not so safe anymore. Plenty of people buy a car with 6 airbags, then neglect to inflate their tires, flip over and die. It doesn't mean the car was unsafe; but we should keep our wits about us.
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:21 am

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
Would I buy one? No, not interested in the product(s). But if I were interested in a Toyota, I'd probably wait a bit for them to figure out what the problems are even though serious events have been a tiny ratio of the zillions of units they have on the road. Regards...jack

I don't know.. Was looking at a few local dealers ad's in Nashville paper a few weekends ago. One dealer had a low mileage '09 Camry for $13,999. That is Cheap. A ONE YEAR OLD Camry for $14K? Found two low mileage Altima's for $15K ('07) and $16K ('08). Not that I'm in the market, I was really just interested in (1) the fact that car dealers are advertising again, (2) the overall price of cars, especially used, are the up or down, and (3) what are the Toyota's going for...

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
$78,000. Pretty steep for a coupe that reminds me of a Datsun 260Z with some California aftermarket fiberglass add-ons.

Drive one and then come back and say the same thing. Well, to be honest, they are so popular, at least around here, you won't be able to do a drive unless you show some proof of (1) you can afford it, and (2) you really are looking.

So go read up on those. Yes, ton's of electronics, but they really, really are some of the best performing cars out there. ESPECIALLY, for *only* $78K. To find a New Corvette that can keep up, you need to top $100K.
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swissy
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:45 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 32):
Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 20):
Irrelevant. GM was not lying to their customers while people were dying.

My friend, many tens of thousands of people have died in GM vehicles due to lackluster safety designs and cost cutting. Probably a full city worth of Americans, since the 1930s. Does GM lie about safety problems? Does a bear sh** in the woods...

Could not agree more....

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
There are 2 outstanding on my car right now. One because in rare cases the switch for the heated seats can get stuck in position and another for coil packs that fail after about 30k. Neither are for safety reasons and both are almost enough to ignore.

Perhaps rethink your view/opinion about the coil packs.....  

There is no reason not to buy Toyota...

Cheerios
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:02 am

Quoting swissy (Reply 34):
There is no reason not to buy Toyota...
http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2010/1/21/633997061668389800-Toyota.jpg

 
photopilot
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:03 am

I've got over a million and a half kilometers in various Toyotas that I've owned and wouldn't hesitate to buy one again. Worst that has ever happened was on an older Celica where the throttle return spring failed (at over 300,000km) but it was about 1 second worth of work to shove the clutch out and turn the key off. Then just coasted over to the side of the road, fixed the spring, and away I went again. And this was back in the early 80's.

Much ado about nothing IMHO.
 
mirrodie
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:09 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
They make ugly, boring, bland and over-hyped (read Prius) cars.

Yes they do....except for the FJ Cruiser. Nice truck.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 2):
I've only bought domestics (Ford, Chevy, Mercury).

There is too much bias there.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
I really wouldn't try and steer you away, especially if the price is right. Worst case scenario is that the car kills you and your family members become millionaires.

If statistics are as they have been historically, a lot of people died in car accidents this weekend in the USA. I sincerely doubt you wil find a higher proportion of those to be b/c of the type of car the people were in.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 6):
Buy a Nissan!

Yes! Ours is 10 years old and I miss my lease.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 11):
But Id still LOVE one of these

That Nissan GTR is going for over MSRP at most dealerships. At the cost, IIRC of over $75K, one may as well just pick up a real sports car from a company that makes them as a rule ie Porsche

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 20):
You still think Toyota builds a safe car?

Historically they always have. Hey, it all comes down to stats. While it only had one fatal accident, by stats alone, Concorde was the worlds most dangerous airliner.....That does not mean it was not safe.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 25):
I never have and never will.

Really?! Wow. I thought most folks joked when they say they'd avoid a particular a/c type.
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TheCol
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:31 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):

Those issues have long since been addressed. Until Toyota can prove that they've solved the problems with their vehicles, do you really want to buy one and chance carting it back to the shop for repair after repair? Wouldn't that be a big inconvenience?
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:50 am

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 31):
None of which included the tail coming off.

You sure about that, or did you forget Boeing sent this bird back to its operator with a botched repair job?

http://www.lessignets.com/signetsdiane/calendrier/images/aout/12/1/jal-123.jpg



All manufacturers have made mistakes, except Lockheed 
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Cadet57
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:05 am

Quoting swissy (Reply 34):
Perhaps rethink your view/opinion about the coil packs.....

A coilpack failing, causing a CEL/ misfire wont kill me nor send me to a rapid, fiery death.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 39):
back to its operator with a botched repair job?

I thought it was because JAL punctured the pressure bulkhead....

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
So... um... are you ever going to fly on an Airbus again?

Apples and oranges. Furthermore, I can count on one hand the times i've flown Airbus. Count me in the "if it aint Boeing, I aint going" crowd.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 35):

  

Quoting Flighty (Reply 32):
My friend, many tens of thousands of people have died in GM vehicles due to lackluster safety designs and cost cutting. Probably a full city worth of Americans, since the 1930s. Does GM lie about safety problems? Does a bear sh** in the woods...

   Go ahead, keep justifying it....
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NIKV69
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:19 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 39):
or did you forget Boeing sent this bird back to its operator with a botched repair job?

So your comparing a crash that was due to a repair after the plane was built to AA587? Interesting but doesn't hold water.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:16 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 2):
I've only bought domestics (Ford, Chevy, Mercury).

One word: Corvair.
Second word: Pinto.
International Homo of Mystery
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:27 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 1):
They make ugly, boring, bland and over-hyped (read Prius) cars.

Calling Doc....!!!

I dont like Toyotas because they are boring, and if the gas gets stuck or acelerates just press the on switch 3 secs and be done with, its not like its going from 45 mph to 100 in 3 seconds.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 31):
None of which included the tail coming off. Yes I have flown all those.

Alaska Airlines MD had a tail elevator stuck and they were all killed, not tail coming off but close.

If Toyota had the Supra for sale I would buy it...
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:35 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Exactly, 3 per year. That's far from alarming.

Um..shouldn't it be zero? If my car ever accelerated on its own like that I'd be scared s*it! Luckily we've never, ever owned a Toyota...or any other Asian car for that matter.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Any DC-9 series aircraft? 737? 747? All have had some issues.

We're talking about cars here. Not planes. Quit changing the subject..  
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 35):

  
אני תומך בישראל
 
MoltenRock
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:59 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 40):
Apples and oranges. Furthermore, I can count on one hand the times i've flown Airbus. Count me in the "if it aint Boeing, I aint going" crowd.

Riiiight. Cheap rhetoric is just that, cheap.

Quoting theredbaron (Reply 43):
If Toyota had the Supra for sale I would buy it...

My father has a 1985 black Supra he's owned since new and only 38,000 miles on it and perfectly mint condition. The car is beautiful! I still remember the day he picked it up after ordering it, and is still his baby. I was a little tyke back then.




Toyota was really sending some amazing cars to the US in the 1980s compared to the pre-rusted on delivery garbage the Detroit morons were churning out back then.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:45 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 40):
I thought it was because JAL punctured the pressure bulkhead....

JAL banged the tail on the runway, cracked the bulkhead, and sent the bird back to Boeing for repairs. Boeing botched the repair and sent it back to JAL, and JAL engineers didn't adequately inspect the aircraft, having assumed the OEM did the repair to spec. A bad operation by all involved.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 41):
So your comparing a crash that was due to a repair after the plane was built to AA587?

No, just pointing out that all manufacturers make mistakes at one time or another. These are humans we're talking about.

The jury is still out on AA587 anyway - differences in rudder limiter forces aside, you might be able to say it's possible to stomp on the pedals back and forth in a Boeing with no ill structural results - but you'll have a hard time finding anyone willing to test the theory.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Flighty
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:08 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 44):
Um..shouldn't it be zero? If my car ever accelerated on its own like that I'd be scared s*it! Luckily we've never, ever owned a Toyota...or any other Asian car for that matter.

Lots of problems should be zero. But this is a human world. People don't appreciate how this is a typical event, one of a zillion minor slight dangers they encounter. In my opinion people should PANIC about red meat, which kills hundreds of thousands of people each year. E coli also kills a lot of people. Mad cow disease too. This is a product that's unbelievably dangerous.

People should never sleep because the real world is just too scary. They should stay in the rocking chair with their shotgun ready to shoot kidnappers. Any time a person sleeps, kidnappers could come in and get them. The logical solution (the perfect solution) is, never sleep, and always be ready for the bad guys. In all likelihood, it will never happen, but it DOES happen to some people.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:25 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 47):
In my opinion people should PANIC about red meat, which kills hundreds of thousands of people each year.

Among other things - high fructose corn syrup, excess sodium in processed foods, and fast food restaurants routinely re-using hydrogenated cooking oils that stick to your arteries like crazy-glue.

People can't see the nature of these threats until a doctor tells them otherwise or they get their first stroke or heart attack - so there's no perception of fear the same as there is with a mechanical failure.

Should also say something about slippery surfaces in bathrooms - since so many seniors seem to be unable to prevent themselves from sustaining moderate to fatal injuries.

All of my kids' eating utensils are wood products as I don't want them eating from the plastics that are invariably churned out in Chinese factories of ill repute.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Why Shouldn't We Buy Toyota Right Now?

Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:07 am

If you want to buy a Toyota, nothing can stop you.

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