|Quoting falstaff (Reply 13):|
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
Not everyone needs or wants to go to college. As me father used to tell me whenever my grades started slacking off at school, "The world needs ditch-diggers too."
That is very true. There are Universities in the USA that offer degrees in fields like automotive technology (my degree), contruction technology, Plastics, and machine technolgy, just to name a few. I tell parents all the time that if their son/daughter wants to work on cars for a living and you want them to go to college they can do both. Many parents and school officials have no idea that there are colleges and universities with technical programs. My parents were just like that, they had no idea that there were BS degrees in Automotive Technology.
Not every kid needs to wants to go to school after high school. That is ok, but they do need some kind of training. I meet people all the time who have advanced degrees, but have to call AAA to put on their spare tire. Some people spent years in college learning about econimics, but have to call an electrician to install an light switch. I run into those people in the academic world all the time and they always knock the trades until their car breaks down or their furnace needs fixed. Back when I was in school "they" were telling us about the great tech jobs that we should strive for. Turns out that didn't work out and those jobs can be outsourced out of the country. The trades are sure bet to job security. I tell parents who wonder if their son should be a mechanic this: "no matter what we drive we will need people to serivce/repair them and to repair them when they get wrecked, you cannot outsource auto repair, it has to be done locally".
|Quoting mdsh00 (Reply 18):|
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
Disagree with that a lot. While you are right that not everybody in this society is meant to go to college, I find far too often that HS graduates are not proficient in even the most basic concepts of math, science, and even geography (I'm throwing that last one in as my own opinion). I'm sometimes shocked and I feel that schools in this country do not place as much of an emphasis on those subjects. There has to be some standard to meet, and yes we could take some cues from other countries.
Why not introduce an apprenticeship system like we have here in the German speaking countries in Europe for those out of highschool, who want to go into a trade? Give it a formal curriculum to keep standards up and, more important, make it a career, like graduating from apprentice to journeyman, and from there to master of trade, with required experience periods and add-on courses thrown in.
Here a kid coming out of highschool (who doesn´t want to do an academic career ) gets hired by a business as an apprentice. The apprenticeships usually last for about 3-4 years. Giving an example in your profession (car maintenance), the apprentice would spend the first year in an apprentice shop (often run jointly by several companies, or by the government, large companies might have their own) learning basic metal skills. Every two weeks he would also attend a government provided vocational school for one week (this goes through the whole apprenticeship) learning the theoretical skills required for his trade (mathematics, technical drawing, e.g. English as a foreign language, physics, basic civics and labour law as any worker should know, car technology, basic materials science etc.). Then, after the first year, he would work in his employer´s car shop, under the guidance and supervision of journeymen and a master mechanic. At first he would do simple tasks, like changing tyres and balancing wheels, changing spark plugs etc., but as he progresses, he would do more and more skilled jobs independently. During the last year of his apprenticeship, he would basically be a cheap worker for his boss (the apprentices get paid a larger pocket money by their boss and have to obey all normal rules of work, like attendance, calling in sick and bringing a cert from a MD
if they are sick etc., so that they get used to a working environment).
At the end of their apprenticeship they´ll have to pass a theoretical and practical exam (in my case, as an aircraft mechanic it took three days, one day a written exam, then a prectical shop exam, where I had to manufacture a journeyman piece out of raw metal and plastic parts, showing my skills in metalwork including machining, and finally on the third day I had to do several jobs on an aircraft under supervision while the examiner was asking me theoretical questions about the aircraft system I was working on). The standards are set by the governing body, in Germany usually the chambers of commerce and trades (which also provide the examiners) and are the same all over the country, so that a future employer knows what he gets.
Then the mechanic graduates as a journeyman and can get a job. After three years experience he can get back to school for some more theory (usually part time school for three years) and then, after passing another exam and creating a master piece, he can become a master of a trade. Master tradesmen here are considered equivalent to a PhD. They can start their own business (in many safety relevant trades, you can only run your own business if you are either a master of this trade or have a university degree in the relevant engineering branch ) and train apprentices.
The German trade system is considered worldwide as very good, with highly skilled staff (Herb Tischer of the Texas Aircraft Factory, who emigrated to the US after having trained and graduated in Germany, trained his staff in accordance with the German system. He had one problem though: Due to the very thorough training, his mechanics were in high demand with other companies and were offered premium wages in other places, so he constantly lost his best staff.).
Then there shouldf also be ways for adults to get a university degree if they want to (not just restricted to people just out of highschool). Since last January I´m doing a part time course with a distance learning university to get a BS
in mechanical engineering. After having worked on the practical side of aircraft maintenance for 15 years, I want learn more about the theoretical side, especially designing, and want to get a degree, which might open some doors for me for a higher position in an AMO (we currently have a guy as the head of our engineering and planning department, who just has the universty degree, but very little practical experience, and he f'cked up several times already, especially in estimating the manhours and hangar time required to do a job in his offers to the customers, mistakes, which wouldn´t have happened to someboy with hand-on experience).
|Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 19):|
Quoting Ltbewr (Reply 6):
We need to cut out the unnessary such as some sports (especially in High School) and accent more on participation of all in some physical program to keep a healthy body and in turn a healthy mind.
Complete nonsense. Sports actually does more for kids in High School than the teachers do. Playing sports, it was the only thing I enjoyed about High School
. I hated highschool sports. First, as a child I suffered from a small physical handicap, I didn´t get enough oxygen at birth and had problems in coordinating quick movements (slow movements were never a problem, like doing twiddly things while assembling Airfix models). I was always lagging behind the others in things like running, jumping or throwing. As a consequence I (with some other kids) was always the kid nobody wanted to have in their team. Then, schoolsports were the perfexct place for the school bullies to harras you (like kicking you into the heels or bodychevking with excessive hardness, small, but continous stuff the teacher wouldn´t notice, but he would notice if you would retaliate). It got even worse when puberty kicked in and the guys wanted to impress the girls.
Then you got graded on your performance (I regularly got failed because e,.g. I couldn´t jump across a bar which was considered standard for my age range. It wasn´t that I was fat (in fact I was rather skinny) or weak, I just had problems with the coordination of the various muscles when doing fast movements). The twice yearly mandatory highschool contest was pure boredom for me. I knew I wouldn´t even get a "taken part" cert, no matter how hard I tried, so I didn´t bother anymore. Also, try to play basketball in highschool in a team, which consists of a few semi-pros (some of our classmates were in basketball clubs and were at Youth-trains-for- the-Olympic-Games level, including the German U18 team), some average kids and some like me. Do you think we ever got hold of the ball? Or if we didn´t play the way the semi-pros wanted, we got shouted at.
F#ck school sports.
I did the sports I enjoyed OUTSIDE school, e.g. by joining a scuba diving clud and going to weekly traing sessions in a large swimming pool, or simply hiking.